>decide it's time for a full-size 9mm
>torn between the HK VP9 or the Sig P226
>ultimately determine I like the P226 for its grip and stability
>$1100 before tax
Was this always the case or did they increase prices since the US Army has a contract with these jokers now?
its always been a pretty high-quality pistol. just get an M&P like everyone else.
Besides being more wallet-friendly, are there any distinguishing features that would make it worthwhile?
a 500 dollar M&P plus a 160 dollar apex trigger gives you a poor-mans 2011. I've tried one, they're amazing.
tell me moar
its an aftermarket trigger, its gud and makes you shoot fast
Pay the 'battle-selected' brand tax, sigger.
I guess my biggest worry is that they'll pull a real Colt and start cutting corners since they have that guaranteed gubment money coming in
you can buy a used OG one for around the same price.
They already have been.
Save your dignity and money and buy a Beretta.
I don't think it's because of muh awmy contract I think they're just in an overinflated period like HK perpetually is (look at USPs--unbelievable, they used to be $750 new). It's unfortunate because there is absolutely no justification for a basic bitch P226 costing more than $600 or that Elite costing more than $800. Especially not when Beretta is killing it with RDO ready 92Xs for under $600.
Just get something else and watch for something used at a reasonable price, you'll get your P226 eventually
The old Sigs were never anything special, they were duty guns from day 1. New ones are just built with less expensive and generally better processes, like milling stainless steel slides instead of making them from welded sheet metal.
Genuine question Burt, where are you finding rdo 92xs under 600
Looks like they went up slightly but the last time I saw under $600 was link related. $650 now but you can see down below in the out of stock section there were a few vendors at ~$590s!
$648 G type
$601 Centurion almost there! lol
>He doesn't know
have been for a long time, man. FN 509, ambi out the box, loaded chamber indicator, loads aftermarket options, tight & smooth fitments, good triggers, nice finish great aesthetic and made in America. can't go wrong
lol little too late for that bud you're about 20 years late.
>or did they increase prices since the US Army has a contract with these jokers now?
Look up the ceo of sig sauer then buy an Arex Zero 1
>ceo of sig sauer
Aw shit, I should have known
>buy a shitty copy of a good gun because the sig ceo has a gnomish last name
Yeah don’t buy from White Christians at Arex in the homogeneous European country of Slovenia buy sig sewer with parts outsourced from india and isreal
>White Christians at Arex
stop pretending like thats why you buy from arex.
I dont own a Arex handgun yet but I do hate sig
Might get a police trade in P226
>he let's a 2000 year old book dictate his gun purchases
I assume you travel via donkey drawn wagon too, right?
>made in America
You went wrong right there.
buy American or fuck yourself. I'll admit it's true, you don't always get what you pay for, but any dipshit with half a braincell can research for themselves what's actually worth the dough, and friend, Sig ain't it - neither is Ruger, Remington or I dunno, Kel-tec BUT....FN, S&W, H&K, plenty have a pedigree that they ACTUALLY live up to. I was proud to discover new Desert Eagles are being made in the states again, but of course there's sometimes a catch, like the fact that Magnum Research was bought by Kahr...which is owned by the funky-ass Unification Church and that shit weirds me out. Gotta do your research.
>I admit American guns are mediocre at best
>but you *have* to buy American because... because you just have to bro!
I can smell your Skoal and Natural Light through my monitor.
He already character-assassinated Kimber. Just a matter of time.
Shoulda got a USP9
>he doesn't buy his sigs as police trade-ins for fucking pennies
I’ve seen police trade Sigs that were never issued. Hard to beat.
Those are steals, holy crap
I’ve seen on Recoil Gunworks site. Also if you keep an eye on GB, you can see what sellers tend to have the nicer police trades and save them. I got a West German P228 with box and mags for $130, but it had been issued and used plenty…by me, kek.
Where is this? That’s the best price I’ve seen since I got my 226 tacops in 40 for 400 bucks. It was during peak Covid panic and everyone wanted 9mm everything
This picture is probably 12 years old
My LGS consistently has sub-$400 police trade in P226s and P229s. Right now they have every 9mm DAKs for $300, and obviously nobody wants them because DAK sucks. Some .40 P229s for $389 in a bit rougher shape.
What is the name of ur LGS, I want to buy
How bad are those DAK triggers? I've heard they're like 14 lbs. and gritty as hell, but I've never handled one.
I was issued a P229 DAK and was planning on carrying my own G23 when I finished training, but ultimately it grew on me and I just kept it. I’ve heard the parts are getting scarce to convert a DA/SA but lots of guys convert the DAK to DA/SA easy.
i never really understood why police don't go straight for a top of the line 2011
i mean, yea, its expensive, and it needs regular maintenance
but damn, your fucking job means you have very decent chances of eventually needing to use a gun
doesn't it make sense to invest the time and money into getting the best there is?
budget for the guns, budget so the dumbass cops you're arming can make effective use of the extra capability the platform offers over a Glock and don't just get bodied the first time they get into a gunfight and forget to disengage the safety, budget for a full-time armorer/gunsmith to keep the things running, all of which could be better spent on almost literally anything else since busting a cap in somebody is theoretically an officer's last resort
i thought police officers were allowed to buy a different weapon of their own if they wanted to
is that not the case?
( ofc i can absolutely understand why departments aren't willing to spend large)
Some departments/agencies have approved BYOG lists, but in general the answer is no because it's a logistics and liability nightmare
Agencies with unlimited money like CIA SAD and SEALs and Delta still issue Glocks. The Swiss military spare no expense when it comes to small arms, and they issue Glocks. Everyone who thinks Glocks are bought and issued solely because they’re cheap is lying to themselves.
Even better, they issue hand-me-down Glocks from other agencies.
Canik is better
>Time for a full-size 9mm pistol
>Chose two over-priced tupperware pistols
>Didn't choose the M9 for nearly half the price of the P226
Even if you don't go for the M9, I'd recommend you give the various surplus 9mm service pistols floating around recently a good look, some of them are not half bad.
Have you considered being straight?
My usual go-to is the 1911 for its chunky punch, but I like the ability to go balls-out retarded insane with a 9mm at my local range
Beretta 92FS or X
I fear the Baretta bite
No such thing. Just grip it well and properly
You're at a higher risk of getting slide bite from a Glock (plus malfunctions) than a Beretta
They've been creeping the price up steadily over the years for some reason, plus it's been like 40 years of inflation that recently spiked to like 15%, plus you aren't buying enough of them to get the bulk discout. They used to be like $7–800.
Speaking of full-size high-quality 9mms that are $7–800, do you have some time to discuss our savior Pietro Beretta?
I'd buy a Baretta, but I'm not a villain in a 90's action movie, nor am I a reprobate that harasses people in a trailer park
What about a hero in an 80s action movie?
He went deaf in that scene, that's why he's making that face.
That's dedication. Surprised they let him use real bullets, but they wanted the scene to look authentic.
Blanks aren't hearing-safe, especially when they're right next to your face
why are beretta fans so annoying?
because they don't actually shoot
like two people on /hg/ actually show their groups, and neither use berettas
the beretta posters just post the same pictures of their guns next to barilla pasta or whatever, like they're part of some epic meme
Now that’s just plain false
>he's offended by Burt
Get a load of this loser
that fat retard still posts?
you'd think he'd've heart attacked or diabetussed himself to death by now, but no, apparently he's still around somehow
Look how well you triggered nuPrepHole plebbitors
Same reason Glock and 1911 fans are annoying—they know they have the best thing in its category and they have no reason to pretend otherwise.
imagine getting upset at people who post pictures of guns without saying anything positive about them
Isn't the P226 technically a compact?
You're thinking of the 228/229
Buy a police trade-in .40 and get a 9mm and/or .357 Sig barrel and springs.
Just get the Arex Zero 1, it's made to higher standards with better QC than nusig at half the price.
>it's made to higher standards with better QC than nusig
Unknowable and debatably false insofar as my examples which are equivalent quality except that the Zero 1 has wonky levers and takedown. To me the Sig trigger feels better and levers/takedown definitely feel better but both feel high quality and that's probably subjective
>at half the price.
True, Global Ordnance blew out the Zero 1s to make room for the Zero 2s which now cost as much as Sigs used to 3 years ago. Get Zero 1s while they're cheap because the Zero 2s are not!
Couldn't agree more on the Rex. I finally handled one at my LGS and immediately felt the levers were substandard. It's made in Slovenia, if I'm not mistaken?
On the other hand I also handled a Turkish P35/Hi Power, and with the exception of the dogshit military heavy SA trigger, the build quality was outstanding for a $500 pistol. Kinda curious now how a Girsan Beretta 92 clone is in quality, but I haven't seen one yet in person.
Terrible taste, tbh.
At least he didn't buy the ugliest handgun H&K has ever designed.
The P7? Gun shoots and handles like wet dog vomit btw, that fucking squeeze mechanism is the most skull meltingly retarded idea the world has ever seen.
probably the VP70 or VP9
Uh yeah terrible gun don't bid on any of the ones up for auction haha.
No. The m10 (.40 p7) Ugly as sin, heavy as fuck. The p7E(heel release) werent too bad. they heat up easy, though. Used to take three to the range at a time and rotate them. I laugh my ass off at what people pay for them now.
VP9 is good I have one
I paid 899 for mine but that was pre covid. Theyve always been on the higher price end. If you shop around for a bit and dont mind buying used you can find some a little cheaper. You may even get lucky and find a West german
Based nickelchad. I keep a close eye on the German, especially nickel, classics and even a year ago you could find nice ones for what you paid or less but the last few months they have gotten crazy. Mine is a 2004 GOTM and I paid $900 but it was a grail gun.
stop being a gay and buy a beretta
American sig is garbage. Used German P226s command premiums now because they're out of production, but if you want a great gun it's a solid choice. The Arex is a good choice but it has a manual safety so different manual of arms. Not that it's a bad thing for a hammer gun but it's a consideration.
There's also nothing wrong with a VP9 if you're locked into one of those two choices. Striker guns have the advantage of simplicity and consistency of trigger feel. It depends on your use case but neither of your choices is bad.
It's going to be personal preference. HK has better quality control and does less idiotic marketing. I also prefer a good striker trigger over DA/SA and it's going to be way easier to conceal carry because it's a lot less thick.
On the other hand, a SAO p226, the kind that'll set you back around $2,000 is an extremely accurate and nice shooting gun, among the best actually. However, fit is personal so results may vary. They also suck to carry and SIG is a pretty shitty company. For the money of a top tier SAO p226, I'd rather have a Staccato.
>tl:dr, I'd go with the HK.
I edc a VP9SK, but my brother and father have a p226 and it's by far the nicest 9mm I've ever shot.
Don't buy a beretta, you don't deserve it
1100 for a 226? No. even the W German ones arent worth it.
t. owned West German ones.
Don't bother with a P226 unless it says "west germany" on it
without naming the garden gnome or pretending indian parts are inferior why is that?
It's like buying an Audi NOT assembled in its country of origin. Basically ensuring QC issues
audis are a nightmare of issues already and they are made in the same country by 1 company what a terrible example
Wouldn't that make it a great example then?
it depends what is the mightmare of issues that plague P226s?
P226s used to be much cheaper but Sig since moving most production of the guns to Exeter has cranked up the prices massively. I love my P226s, I even love my Legion which I got for cheap at a pawn shop (no box through, probably stolen tbh), but I would never pay for a new one that isn't an X-Series competition gun.
Is the P220 any good? It's the only P22x I ever see available for a low price these days. Let's assume the capacity doesn't matter, I have no plans to carry it and can always use it for some appropriate shooting sport
>not considering a Beretta 92fs for 500 with three magazines and a lifetime warranty.
The VP9 isn't that great. Very expensive for a polymer striker fire which are supposed to be cheap, and not rhe most reliable. The best are the FNS/509 and the M&P9. They're still cheapo poly strikers so don't expect much.
The winner in your decision is the HK P30, you just don't know it yet. The quality is for above the Sig's, and you get the reliability of a hammer fire. If you're considering an HK and a hammer fire this is the way to go.
>The VP9 isn't that great. Very expensive for a polymer striker fire which are supposed to be cheap, and not rhe most reliable. The best are the FNS/509 and the M&P9. They're still cheapo poly strikers so don't expect much.
Everything you said here is wrong. VP9 costs the same as new Gen 5 Glocks, with the optics ready models costing the same as Glock 34 Gen 5 MOSes. They're wholly reliable, I've shot 40k rounds between 3 VP9s and can count the malfunctions on two hands. FN 509 loves to break strikers and has the worst mounting system of any of the newer striker fired handguns. M&P 2.0 is a baseline gun that functions fine but doesn't offer anything special.
no love for the walther pdp?
honestly, give it about three years. it's still pretty new and it isn't such a huge improvement over the PPQ that people are going to run out and buy one if they already have a 9mm pistol. They will, however, pick one up eventually.
It's fine. It's better than a Glock as long as you don't mind zero aftermarket and not being so ubiquitous that every conceivable problem you might have has already been encountered by ten thousand other people and solved five different ways for you, but if I wanted something better than a Glock why would I buy a gun that's only slightly better when I could spend the same money on a gun that's a lot better like a Beretta 92X?
>Berettas are still totally the best guys!
lmao, if they’re so good, then why doesn’t any relevant military still use them?
Because Glocks are cheaper and lighter and Good Enough, and for military use handguns are mostly decorative—the United States could've scrapped the MHS program and gone back to issuing SAAs for all the difference service pistols actually make.
I wasn't talking about military procurement, or even LE approval; I was talking about buying handguns for personal use as an individual.
Handguns are not issued on the basis of price. Militaries will spend five million dollars on a single tank without batting an eye, you think they give a shit if the unit price of a handgun is $300 or $500? You think someone who launches a dozen Raytheon missiles at 500k apiece gives a shit about the cost of a handgun? Nobody issues Berettas because they're fucking dinosaurs, and no soldier wants to lug around a DA/SA boat anchor all day.
>you think they give a shit if the unit price of a handgun is $300 or $500?
Do you understand that there is more than one person in the military who carries a handgun and paying 66.6% (repeating, of course) more for service weapons for the entire military that will barely see use is something they definitely take into consideration
Do you understand that outfitting ten thousand soldiers with $400 handguns still costs less than a single IFV?
Do you understand that small-scale procurement, e.g. special forces units, still favors polymer striker guns, most typically Glocks?
The entire free world issues ARs and Glocks to the exclusion of almost everything else. I know it's boring, but it's true. Thinking that you've discovered some meta-breaking small arm that the procurement officers just haven't adopted yet because "it costs too much, clearly", is the epitome of hubris. These people deprecate hundreds of millions of dollars of arms and equipment off their asset books every year.
>use striker gun
>gets jammed with bear fur
many such cases
hammer will always be superior
how ironic you claim military-issue guns are decorative, and yet you’ve deluded yourself into thinking a fucking Beretta in 2023 is not
I bet you think that soldiers still use mechanical watches, too
No; why would they?
What the fuck is your problem? Why are you so belligerent about someone on the internet liking something that you don't like, or that doesn't have Big Army's or USSOCOM's imprimatur of tactical legitimacy?
>What the fuck is your problem?
gay dilettantes like you.
>about someone on the internet liking something that you don't like
Because that's not what you did. You couldn't argue in favor of your gun without putting down another. Beretta owners really are the Twitter trannies of PrepHole: you bash other people's favorite things and then get defensive when they do it back to you.
What I said: "The PDP is fine; it's better than a Glock if you don't mind the lack of aftermarket and community support, but why buy a gun that's slightly nicer than a Glock when you can buy one that's a lot nicer than a Glock, like a Beretta?"
What you think I said: "GLOCKS AND PDPS SUCK, EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT A BERETTA SUCKS, EVERYONE SHOULD BUY A BERETTA THEY'RE THE BEST GUNS AND THERE'S NO REASON TO EVER BUY ANYTHING ELSE"
What you said, verbatim
>a gun that's a lot better [than the PDP or Glock] like a Beretta 92X
What you're saying now, like a coward, after you've been called out
>th-the beretta is actually only "nicer" than the PDP or Glock!!
You're a pseudointellectual and, what's worse, you're a little fucking weasel. It's transparent to everyone.
You're frothing at the mouth because some fag on a Chinese cartoon forum used two words that are mostly synonymous as though they meant practically the same thing. Please take a moment to reflect on your situation.
I accept your concession.
>this is what you said
No I didn't!
>it's right here, verbatim
I was merely pretending!
>you are a backpedaling coward
U MAD BRO?
Do you genuinely not put any forethought into your replies?
>full size 9mm
9mm is for concealed defence
Want a full size get a 10mm or .357
take the police trade-in pill anon
So... just buy a LEO trade-in then? That's what I'm getting from this thread (between all the stupid tiffs, that is)