It's been tried like 6 million times honestly it really should exist and all other Ukraine threads banned at this point because I'm tired of seeing the Kulkata residents clock in and post the same leopard 67 times a day
Generals are cancer. There's plenty of scope to discuss the weapons and happenings in Ukraine in various threads. Just ignore the trolls and report their threads
Yiffypomfpomfticklepickleboi, reporting for duty to gay up every general thread with off-topic posting about my mental illnesses and avatar posts of my waifu ウマ娘 horsey! YOROSHIKU NE /k/-kyunkyuuun彡
Btw remember to follow me on Twitter and check my Amazon wish list k?(*ﾉω・*)ﾃﾍbaicya--
This guy's pretty even-handed for being a pro-Ukrainian source. He's the only one I've seen that mentions the topography of the area.
I'd expect Rivnopil to be taken tomorrow as the Russians there are in danger of being cut off. Staromairske probably gets taken as well, especially if the Russians are still off-balance from their failed counter attack..
Not sure if I should be disappointed with 47 Brigade's performance or if my expectations were just too high for a modern conventional war. Hope they pull through this whole thing.
Shit happens anon, remember that most of these guys may be well-trained but have no real combat experience. Aside from that one case though, there has been no other big problem so far.
I'm just guesstimating the approximate position of the southernmost Ukrainian position, but according to the map, it's just about 7.3 miles deep as the crow flies.
What does it mean for the counteroffensive that they haven't yet reached the first fortification layer?
Is it just a section of land they'll have to move through much more slowly (setting aside construction quality), or is there more to it than that?
Nothing. As Prigozhin says, the Ukrainains are taking it slowly and carefully, minimising their losses and squeezing the Russians out of places. Just like in Kherson. Copes about "le massive casualties" are no more real than they were in Kherson or Bakhmut, were the Ukrainian army was "destroyed" multiple times.
>minimising their losses and squeezing the Russians out of places. Just like in Kherson.
Neither here nor in Kherson have they been "minimizing their losses". They keep attacking with inadequate artillery support, they keep getting their shit rocked, until eventually some place gives. Not much different from Wagner assault tactics except they have more armor and less artillery support.
I belive they want a repeat of last year where ukrane launched some probing attacks in kerson to draw as much of RuAF in there as posable blow the railings constantly as to delay of them pushing out of there and have an proper assault somewhere else and then force them out of this sector by further hitting their logistics and making them use more and more of their supplies till it becomes unsustainable to hold and by winter I think they might try to siege Crimea by posably haveing Strom shadows and HIMARS blow the kerch bridge and prob sinking any boat that comes near it with anti ship missiles
Either way gents get comfy since it's going to be a long campaign that russia can't afford it in a long term
They do have HARM missiles its that they are jurry rigged to mig-29 and flying pre - programed flight (I.E. it flies to predetermined location and tries to find the radar system and hit it)
>it's going to be a long campaign
Yeah, every news source or official statement I've seen states that this offensive is expected to go on for months. I'm expecting weeks of +1/-1 village with the occasional memeworthy battle. Honestly the make-or-break moment will be when/if Ukraine gets in range to supress Russia's logistical routes. The Ukrainians will throw everything they have to achieve it, and the Russians will throw everything they have to prevent it. Either way, we're a few weeks away from real kino.
Western support (I mean yesterday US alone sent replacement Bradley's to those they lost in that convoy and even then its a mobility kills so ukies might try to recover them out of there repair them and get them back and runing) there are still troops being raised from mobilzacion and volunteers and they still have some domestic production of ammo itself and well russia had to bring out t-55 back to service to replace the tank losses and also yesterday putin has announced that there no need for another moblizacion and wagner and some elite units got completely beaten in Bakhmut that they became combat infective
So yhe russia can't afford this war in a long term or they will have to pull reserves from somewhere else or xuilo will have to go back on his word and start mobilisacion but even then what they going to equip them with
Ukraine doesn't have to pay for the ammo, or the vehicle, or the fuel
Can the US replace the dead hohols too?
11 months ago
Anonymous
i mean yes, like 10 mill Black folk coming right up
11 months ago
Anonymous
Kind of like how Russia imported tens of thousands of churkas into Mariupol?
11 months ago
Anonymous
They tend to replace themselves. Without the kacaps and their AIDS, it's not an issue.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Well, I'm glad the mask is off and we can all stop pretending Russians are a peaceful and civilized nation and realize they're a nation of Barbaric subhumans.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I don't get this cope. Russia's pyramid looks just as bad while suffering far higher casualties in battle.
11 months ago
Anonymous
most of this pyramid doesnt even have to do with the war, but just men dying early of alcoholism and other crap
11 months ago
Anonymous
uh anon basically every part of russia's (and ukraine's, and all formerly soviet countries) demographics problem stems from ww2. if it's not direct visible male population loss because 1.5 million men facechecked an mg3 it's the complicated aftermath. labelling deaths from stds or alcoholism as "other crap" is kinda misleading, since those deaths are caused indirectly by ww2 and its impact on the soviet union.
11 months ago
Anonymous
most of this pyramid doesnt even have to do with the war, but just men dying early of alcoholism and other crap
It's actually worse than that. 1.5 MILLION russian men in the 18-40 age range have straight up NOPEd the frick out of Russia rather than risk being mobilised. Some estimates put it as high as 2 million. Solovyov and co were seething about it a while back.
11 months ago
Anonymous
The few reports I've seen, they're mostly fleeing to Georgia. I'm sure they'll be back after this war, cause it's not like that place is less of a shithole
11 months ago
Anonymous
>cause it's not like that place is less of a shithole
it actually is, but they'll flee because it's not a russian shithole and doesn't welcome them like russia does
11 months ago
Anonymous
whenever a vatnik accuses it is usually projection
11 months ago
Anonymous
ayy
11 months ago
Anonymous
So you're admitting Russia is committing genocide on the Ukrainian population, and not liberating it from some made up satanic, gay, narcofanatic nazi government?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>So you're admitting Russia is committing genocide on the Ukrainian population
YES. And its based, the best part is they died for my amusement. Do you think this is leddit and im going to shrink back in fear of being called a racist nazi chud?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Russia is not nazi, it's snow globohomosexual where saying anything remotely "racist" gets you in jail. Also, Russia is going to disappear before it can genocide anyone
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Russia is committing genocide on my precious little piggies >But also Russia will collapse before they can genocide anyone
pick one
11 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not him, I think that even if Russia wanted to do a genocide, they couldn't. They are too much of a shithole for that
11 months ago
Anonymous
Keep doing your part, Vania. You're making Russia look good.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>YES. And its based, the best part is they died for my amusement.
11 months ago
Anonymous
At least you're an unapologetic Black person, though you should still be a dead one.
11 months ago
Anonymous
So what you're saying is, your opinion can be safely discarded because you don't represent even a fraction of a percent of people and are some weirdo outlier.
11 months ago
Anonymous
do YOU think this is plebbit and that teen edge will impress anyone?
11 months ago
Anonymous
You'd never say shit like this in real life, this is the type of stuff someone who gets nervous around female cashiers would post.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Uh, we can use "Warhammer 40,000" MAD SCIENCE to make more Ukrainians. Or make a exception in the anti-cloning laws for Ukrainians.
We have the TECH to practically manufacture Ukrainians.
Western support (I mean yesterday US alone sent replacement Bradley's to those they lost in that convoy and even then its a mobility kills so ukies might try to recover them out of there repair them and get them back and runing) there are still troops being raised from mobilzacion and volunteers and they still have some domestic production of ammo itself and well russia had to bring out t-55 back to service to replace the tank losses and also yesterday putin has announced that there no need for another moblizacion and wagner and some elite units got completely beaten in Bakhmut that they became combat infective
So yhe russia can't afford this war in a long term or they will have to pull reserves from somewhere else or xuilo will have to go back on his word and start mobilisacion but even then what they going to equip them with
We don’t know yet but the fact that Russians are throwing reserve units into counter-attacks this early over supposedly non-fortified areas raises some questions.
Isn't it Russian defense doctrine to yield ground while hitting them with artillery the whole time, then counterattack with reinforcements to push their degraded forces back?
Elastic defense or whatever they call it.
However it clashes with the fact that Ukrainians KNOW the Soviet playbook themselves, and know exactly what is coming. Not to mention time is so short, the Russians have to act in haste and get glassed.
The forward defences obviously have some value, otherwise the primary line would always be right at the front. That implies that taking it also has value.
>fortification layer
Whats the fricking point if the enemy knows the exact position of your concrete grave and can send a 155mm round to you at any second?
The video talks a bit about the strategy the Ukrainians use, which implies that they've already been encountering fortifications.
Either way, the idea seems to be: >Preparatory artillery bombardment >Engage fortifications with tanks to allow infantry to move up >Clear fortifications >Have artillery standing by to counter battery any retaliatory bombardments(this seems to be a lesson learned from the first day of the offensive.)
The defensive line of fortifications is certainly an obstacle, but it's a static one. It's very vulnerable to artillery, especially considering the freakish accuracy you get from HIMARs and the other Western artillery in combination with drone observers.
We don’t know yet but the fact that Russians are throwing reserve units into counter-attacks this early over supposedly non-fortified areas raises some questions.
These particular counter attacks seem to be holding actions to keep the group in Rivnopil from being encircled and cut off. I suppose we'll find out tomorrow if they were successful in that aspect.
They already tried (and failed) to retake Makarivka with one of their reserve divisions. They already blew up the dam upriver. Were they overeager or is it something else? We'll know in the next days/weeks.
No idea, but we can clearly see their lines of fortifications on satellite, and the ukrainians have only reached the first of the three lines in a few places - and in those places their advances have mysteriously ceased.
it tells me there is no "crumple zone", that those fortifications are simply meant to protect the parts of southern ukraine the russians absolutely cannot afford to lose, but they want to hold the ukrainians off as far from the "land bridge" as possible
What is the advantage of throwing strategic reserve level formations into counter-attacks over these meager gains and losing said units in the process?
Urozaihne has been flooded according to him. He said Russians left it so he assumes ukraine is in control of the city now? That's a bit wishful thinking. I like his combat footage though.
I'd say low because they've had a lot of time to prepare and should in theory have reserve to hold the different defense lines. Unless Ukrainians wait until the flooded area dried up, cross the river and successfully attack the now ill defended Russian front in Kherson.
The vats have a LOT of lines to fall back to. The only "routs" for the foreseeable future are individual units fricking up their withdrawal and getting schwacked rather than entire fronts. Something on the scale of Kyiv or Kharkiv is highly unlikely at this stage.
Could Spike missiles from Israel help the Ukies? There are many different types. What types would be most useful?
So in the coming months the equipment and troops will just keep piling on? Plus extra equipment that will just get replaced by the US? (I don't think the Europeans have much left, but they can maybe buy it from 3rd world countries)
>Here is the source
>Literal NATO propagnada
NATO is a pretty good source.
as opposed to literal russian propaganda
>Literal NATO propagnada
are you implying some part of the map marked as recaptured is going to revert back to Russian control again? lmao
Yesterdays map
Not much movement for today
Most likely next offense is at Rivnopil in the coming day(s)
If your gonna continue posting these kinds of threads or someone else then I am fine with this becoming the Ukraine War general
anyways Bump
It's been tried like 6 million times honestly it really should exist and all other Ukraine threads banned at this point because I'm tired of seeing the Kulkata residents clock in and post the same leopard 67 times a day
Generals are cancer. There's plenty of scope to discuss the weapons and happenings in Ukraine in various threads. Just ignore the trolls and report their threads
As long as tripgays don't start showing up it's fine
Hello! Did you say "General"?!
Yiffypomfpomfticklepickleboi, reporting for duty to gay up every general thread with off-topic posting about my mental illnesses and avatar posts of my waifu ウマ娘 horsey! YOROSHIKU NE /k/-kyunkyuuun彡
Btw remember to follow me on Twitter and check my Amazon wish list k?(*ﾉω・*)ﾃﾍbaicya--
I just want a clear battle map. Bait or shill threads don't help
wouldn't work. as soon as some propaganda piece comes from either side /k/ get spammed for the whole day
This guy's pretty even-handed for being a pro-Ukrainian source. He's the only one I've seen that mentions the topography of the area.
I'd expect Rivnopil to be taken tomorrow as the Russians there are in danger of being cut off. Staromairske probably gets taken as well, especially if the Russians are still off-balance from their failed counter attack..
I'm still amazed by the stupidity of Russia's counterattacks. They're literally banzai-charging into death.
Where can we see these? I haven't seen a single piece of evidence for these alleged counterattacks.
questioning the narrative is treason. speak carefully.
Gotta wait for Ukraine to release the footage, because Russia sure as hell won't, lol.
Not sure if I should be disappointed with 47 Brigade's performance or if my expectations were just too high for a modern conventional war. Hope they pull through this whole thing.
Shit happens anon, remember that most of these guys may be well-trained but have no real combat experience. Aside from that one case though, there has been no other big problem so far.
Do you make this map yourself?
If so could you put a scale on it ?
I would also be interested to see how many bakhmuts of territory it is
its around two bakhmuts worth of territory
I posted the source for the map
Here is a map with scale.
These movements are not big, around 1-5km
I'm just guesstimating the approximate position of the southernmost Ukrainian position, but according to the map, it's just about 7.3 miles deep as the crow flies.
Didn't they get to staromlinyvka already?
https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1668653202814775302
What does it mean for the counteroffensive that they haven't yet reached the first fortification layer?
Is it just a section of land they'll have to move through much more slowly (setting aside construction quality), or is there more to it than that?
That is one shallow line of fortifications.
Nothing. As Prigozhin says, the Ukrainains are taking it slowly and carefully, minimising their losses and squeezing the Russians out of places. Just like in Kherson. Copes about "le massive casualties" are no more real than they were in Kherson or Bakhmut, were the Ukrainian army was "destroyed" multiple times.
>minimising their losses and squeezing the Russians out of places. Just like in Kherson.
Neither here nor in Kherson have they been "minimizing their losses". They keep attacking with inadequate artillery support, they keep getting their shit rocked, until eventually some place gives. Not much different from Wagner assault tactics except they have more armor and less artillery support.
You LIE. Ukraine has plenty of support when it attacks a place. Footage confirms this.
Cool fanfic, zigger.
I belive they want a repeat of last year where ukrane launched some probing attacks in kerson to draw as much of RuAF in there as posable blow the railings constantly as to delay of them pushing out of there and have an proper assault somewhere else and then force them out of this sector by further hitting their logistics and making them use more and more of their supplies till it becomes unsustainable to hold and by winter I think they might try to siege Crimea by posably haveing Strom shadows and HIMARS blow the kerch bridge and prob sinking any boat that comes near it with anti ship missiles
Either way gents get comfy since it's going to be a long campaign that russia can't afford it in a long term
Too bad UAF doesn't have Mavericks and F-16s and harms. Strike on ZNPP area would be great.
They do have HARM missiles its that they are jurry rigged to mig-29 and flying pre - programed flight (I.E. it flies to predetermined location and tries to find the radar system and hit it)
>it's going to be a long campaign
Yeah, every news source or official statement I've seen states that this offensive is expected to go on for months. I'm expecting weeks of +1/-1 village with the occasional memeworthy battle. Honestly the make-or-break moment will be when/if Ukraine gets in range to supress Russia's logistical routes. The Ukrainians will throw everything they have to achieve it, and the Russians will throw everything they have to prevent it. Either way, we're a few weeks away from real kino.
>that russia can't afford it in a long term
and ukraine can?
Their backers can, hardware and supplies are getting depleted much faster than soldiers
Can the US replace the dead hohols too?
i mean yes, like 10 mill Black folk coming right up
Kind of like how Russia imported tens of thousands of churkas into Mariupol?
They tend to replace themselves. Without the kacaps and their AIDS, it's not an issue.
Well, I'm glad the mask is off and we can all stop pretending Russians are a peaceful and civilized nation and realize they're a nation of Barbaric subhumans.
I don't get this cope. Russia's pyramid looks just as bad while suffering far higher casualties in battle.
most of this pyramid doesnt even have to do with the war, but just men dying early of alcoholism and other crap
uh anon basically every part of russia's (and ukraine's, and all formerly soviet countries) demographics problem stems from ww2. if it's not direct visible male population loss because 1.5 million men facechecked an mg3 it's the complicated aftermath. labelling deaths from stds or alcoholism as "other crap" is kinda misleading, since those deaths are caused indirectly by ww2 and its impact on the soviet union.
It's actually worse than that. 1.5 MILLION russian men in the 18-40 age range have straight up NOPEd the frick out of Russia rather than risk being mobilised. Some estimates put it as high as 2 million. Solovyov and co were seething about it a while back.
The few reports I've seen, they're mostly fleeing to Georgia. I'm sure they'll be back after this war, cause it's not like that place is less of a shithole
>cause it's not like that place is less of a shithole
it actually is, but they'll flee because it's not a russian shithole and doesn't welcome them like russia does
whenever a vatnik accuses it is usually projection
ayy
So you're admitting Russia is committing genocide on the Ukrainian population, and not liberating it from some made up satanic, gay, narcofanatic nazi government?
>So you're admitting Russia is committing genocide on the Ukrainian population
YES. And its based, the best part is they died for my amusement. Do you think this is leddit and im going to shrink back in fear of being called a racist nazi chud?
Russia is not nazi, it's snow globohomosexual where saying anything remotely "racist" gets you in jail. Also, Russia is going to disappear before it can genocide anyone
>Russia is committing genocide on my precious little piggies
>But also Russia will collapse before they can genocide anyone
pick one
I'm not him, I think that even if Russia wanted to do a genocide, they couldn't. They are too much of a shithole for that
Keep doing your part, Vania. You're making Russia look good.
>YES. And its based, the best part is they died for my amusement.
At least you're an unapologetic Black person, though you should still be a dead one.
So what you're saying is, your opinion can be safely discarded because you don't represent even a fraction of a percent of people and are some weirdo outlier.
do YOU think this is plebbit and that teen edge will impress anyone?
You'd never say shit like this in real life, this is the type of stuff someone who gets nervous around female cashiers would post.
Uh, we can use "Warhammer 40,000" MAD SCIENCE to make more Ukrainians. Or make a exception in the anti-cloning laws for Ukrainians.
We have the TECH to practically manufacture Ukrainians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_womb
Western support (I mean yesterday US alone sent replacement Bradley's to those they lost in that convoy and even then its a mobility kills so ukies might try to recover them out of there repair them and get them back and runing) there are still troops being raised from mobilzacion and volunteers and they still have some domestic production of ammo itself and well russia had to bring out t-55 back to service to replace the tank losses and also yesterday putin has announced that there no need for another moblizacion and wagner and some elite units got completely beaten in Bakhmut that they became combat infective
So yhe russia can't afford this war in a long term or they will have to pull reserves from somewhere else or xuilo will have to go back on his word and start mobilisacion but even then what they going to equip them with
Ukraine doesn't have to pay for the ammo, or the vehicle, or the fuel
Ukraine pays with the lives of its people. But I guess those are worthless?
Their lives can't fill Biden's stomach or make him cum.
Here, have a few full stops. They're on the house. ............................................
Nooooooo you accidentally posted a few ellipses instead, now he's gonna end every sentence with them...
>Nothing. As Prigozhin says, the Ukrainains are taking it slowly and carefully, minimising their losses and squeezing the Russians out of places.
Ukrainian to Russian AFV losses are likely close to 1:1 and it wouldn't be surprising if the Ukies even have less crew losses during this offensive.
>Ukrainian to Russian AFV losses are likely close to 1:1
>my bowel movements and FSB handlers told me so
We don’t know yet but the fact that Russians are throwing reserve units into counter-attacks this early over supposedly non-fortified areas raises some questions.
Isn't it Russian defense doctrine to yield ground while hitting them with artillery the whole time, then counterattack with reinforcements to push their degraded forces back?
Elastic defense or whatever they call it.
That's the "ideal".
However it clashes with the fact that Ukrainians KNOW the Soviet playbook themselves, and know exactly what is coming. Not to mention time is so short, the Russians have to act in haste and get glassed.
The forward defences obviously have some value, otherwise the primary line would always be right at the front. That implies that taking it also has value.
>fortification layer
Whats the fricking point if the enemy knows the exact position of your concrete grave and can send a 155mm round to you at any second?
>likes, nine inch nails
>dislikes, trent reznor
relatable
>Storm shadow
>Star streak
What's with S's and British missiles?
The video talks a bit about the strategy the Ukrainians use, which implies that they've already been encountering fortifications.
Either way, the idea seems to be:
>Preparatory artillery bombardment
>Engage fortifications with tanks to allow infantry to move up
>Clear fortifications
>Have artillery standing by to counter battery any retaliatory bombardments(this seems to be a lesson learned from the first day of the offensive.)
The defensive line of fortifications is certainly an obstacle, but it's a static one. It's very vulnerable to artillery, especially considering the freakish accuracy you get from HIMARs and the other Western artillery in combination with drone observers.
These particular counter attacks seem to be holding actions to keep the group in Rivnopil from being encircled and cut off. I suppose we'll find out tomorrow if they were successful in that aspect.
Russians are stupid. They spread themselves too thin, yet again. And as usual, they keep prizing offense over defense.
They already tried (and failed) to retake Makarivka with one of their reserve divisions. They already blew up the dam upriver. Were they overeager or is it something else? We'll know in the next days/weeks.
They're working those Poccners with good Ole M777s. Russian mother's pumping out kids vs American steel manufacturing
Why would the Russians be throwing reserves into the defense if the offense hasn't reached their primary line of defense?
No idea, but we can clearly see their lines of fortifications on satellite, and the ukrainians have only reached the first of the three lines in a few places - and in those places their advances have mysteriously ceased.
Ivan here. No panic.
it tells me there is no "crumple zone", that those fortifications are simply meant to protect the parts of southern ukraine the russians absolutely cannot afford to lose, but they want to hold the ukrainians off as far from the "land bridge" as possible
Looks like they’re cutting off the Bulge at Rivnopil.
a couple wheat fields doesn't qualify as a bulge.
Countdown until Syrskyi is relieved from his position? Clearly it's out of his depth now.
So what's the strategic advantage of driving into minefields, advancing into artillery killboxes and losing 7k men, all for meager gains?
>7k
hahahahaha you stupid pidor hahah
How else are they going to get the Russians to leave? Ask nicely?
Sure, but there is no need to expend every able bodied male in ukraine and waste every single piece of western gibs in the process
What is the advantage of throwing strategic reserve level formations into counter-attacks over these meager gains and losing said units in the process?
None. It's just in line with Russia's inability to understand Soviet operational art beyond an idiot's level.
Let's ask ukraine
No let’s ask Russia. Why did they waste reserve level formations in a futile attempt to retake Makarivka?
to raise some eyebrows
>no u!
Ukrainians getting shelled to death in makarivka is not a 'futile attempt'
Don’t you mean Russian turrets getting sent into the stratosphere?
Well duh, how else can the Cosmonaut get into space?
>"Launch turret, comradovitch!"
No, I mean leopards getting blown to bits and then being captured by the enemy
Stop panic
Urozaihne has been flooded according to him. He said Russians left it so he assumes ukraine is in control of the city now? That's a bit wishful thinking. I like his combat footage though.
Odds this turns into another Russian rout, eventually?
I'd say low because they've had a lot of time to prepare and should in theory have reserve to hold the different defense lines. Unless Ukrainians wait until the flooded area dried up, cross the river and successfully attack the now ill defended Russian front in Kherson.
I so hope the Ukrainians shock the Russians with an attack via Kherson direction.
>"Impossible! The dam destruction should have prevented this!"
The vats have a LOT of lines to fall back to. The only "routs" for the foreseeable future are individual units fricking up their withdrawal and getting schwacked rather than entire fronts. Something on the scale of Kyiv or Kharkiv is highly unlikely at this stage.
Delusional kek
Don't be so certain mang. The potential for catastrophe (on either side) is certainly low, but it isn't zero.
Its happened before during both of the other ukie offensives, and at kiev
If the land bridge gets squeezed I say don't even take it. Leave it a kill zone to run gauntlets
Make Melitopol hwy a HIMARS galleria
Pretty low.
Cope
OK.
so if i got it right once ukis take staromlynivka they can reliably cut all transport to the south with shelling highways and railways right?
Pretty much.
Anyone know if they're still training more soldiers in the US, UK and Germany?
Pretty sure they've never stopped.
Could Spike missiles from Israel help the Ukies? There are many different types. What types would be most useful?
So in the coming months the equipment and troops will just keep piling on? Plus extra equipment that will just get replaced by the US? (I don't think the Europeans have much left, but they can maybe buy it from 3rd world countries)
weapons?
you frickin homosexual