Could they have been saved or was their fate determined the moment they carried out their suicidal orders?

Could they have been saved or was their fate determined the moment they carried out their suicidal orders?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >VEH

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ya know I am surprised that Ukraine hasn't been able to kill another 3-4 generals in the counter offensives.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're assuming they didn't capture any.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Didn't they get that one guy who was dressed up as a lieutenant or something

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe if Dimitri hadn't sold all their Fuel to a Belarusian farmer than maybe yes

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Their fate was sealed the moment that some of them fucked Putin's girlfriend in the 70s.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nah, they just rejected his application for being too short. This whole thing is the veh-deh-veh's fault, if you think about it.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I just want all the autists to combine their info. Somewhere like Oryx where I can track the vague positions of divisions and see estimated stats. Learning about the 1st tank army was fun

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They were pretty much screwed the moment they took off.

    An airborne insertion into enemy territory is risky at the best of times.

    Landing in the enemies airport and deploying light infantry against dug-in infantry receiving armoured support in the vague hope that an armoured spearhead can break through the miles of territory you just flew over before they are all killed is just a stupid plan.

    The same result could have been achieved by never deploying them in the first place.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not even considering the fact that the airport was flat as its expected from an airport, meaning no cover from arty, with the buildings being zeroed in and spotter drones having free season, I'm surprised they held out for three days before the CO ran out of his government issued hopium that the spearhead will arrive any time now and told everyone to run to the woods.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thats not the worst sin though. The worst part was thinking that the airport alone was worth taking. There's nothing there. Sure you can fly troops in by plane once you hold it- but you can do that by road or helicopter, as they did, given the distance. So taking the airport didn't achieve anything justifying the use of airborne troops with a high risk of their defeat.

      Those troops should have been used to assault Bankova Street to try and sieze Zelenskyy.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        None of the initial operations make sense (implying any of these do) when you add it all up. The most mind blowing thing to me was the MP on the frontline in Kiev. The fuck did they expect, it to just topple over in less than 24 hours?
        I assume the same logic created the VDV mess. Oh why would the Ukrainians bother defending the airport? Just take it over, don't worry about it, it'll speed up the invasion a little bit.
        Being so arrogant is good for just about nothing. I mean look at Hitler during WW2, didn't he say the whole Soviet Union was a rotting door waiting to be kicked down? The Germans were pretty competent for awhile and they still ended up getting their asses handed to them. Russia couldn't even threaten Kiev for a couple months.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, it's ridiculous when you look at it all, just astounding that Russian planning was so fucking shit from day one - and its still fucking shit. I've little empathy for the state itself, can't help but feel bad for all those that were sacrificed for no fucking reason though - what a fucking waste.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          only got their asses handed to them due to american carpet bombing their industry to the 7th century aswel as russia just throwing every man child and woman on the frontlines for 4 entire years.
          aside from bagration and obviously stalingrad the krauts never really got steamrolled in the east

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Whole point is, if Hitler was right, just the initial battles where entire Soviet armies got encircled and captured should have resulted in the country falling quickly. Not those three major cities being defended for years.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >american carpet bombing

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Strategic bombing actually had minimal effect.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            germans had numerical superiority until 1942 keep coping kraut

            germans lost at kursk, operation fall blau , operation typhoon, siege of leningrad before bagration

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              When Germans started loosing was it pure defeat by hard numbers or Adolfs nonsense played significant role? IIRC from history lessons there were several significant fuck-ups ordered directly by Hitler due to personal, political and even esoteric reasons.

              I wonder how far one can really compare just the military capability when the head of state just goes OOOOK no do banan.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >aside from bagration and obviously stalingrad
            Soviets actually still took more casualties during bagration and stalingrad. So even whats considered major losses for Germany still did more damage to SU, difference is SU had way higher numbers so it didn't matter as much for them otherwise those would have been losses for them instead, along with the whole war.

            germans had numerical superiority until 1942 keep coping kraut

            germans lost at kursk, operation fall blau , operation typhoon, siege of leningrad before bagration

            By 1942 Soviets already had far greater numbers brought up from reserves than Germans had even at the start of Barbarossa, and thats after Soviets already took way more casualties.

            >lost at kursk, operation fall blau , operation typhoon, siege of leningrad
            Soviets took way more casualties during all of those.

            When Germans started loosing was it pure defeat by hard numbers or Adolfs nonsense played significant role? IIRC from history lessons there were several significant fuck-ups ordered directly by Hitler due to personal, political and even esoteric reasons.

            I wonder how far one can really compare just the military capability when the head of state just goes OOOOK no do banan.

            It was by hard numbers. Even during what was considered Germany's "mistakes" and defeats they still dealt greater losses to the SU than they received. Fact is while the Germans weren't perfect the Soviets were much worse and made way more mistakes causing them to consistently take more losses. So yes if it weren't for the greater numbers and supplies the Soviets would have lost as they were hemorrhaging both at a much higher rate and wouldn't have had any left to fight with.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It speak volumes that the most charitable interpretation of VDV's performance during the Battles of Hostomel is they got overrun quickly and had to wage asymmetric war against the Ukies until they got reinforced by ground forces. Taking the airport was completely pointless.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >do that by road or helicopter
        A cargo plane carries far more weight than a helicopter. By road, you have to fight through mud and enemy. It really was a valuable target, the execution, reinforcement and everything else was just bad

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Even if they DID take and hold the airport, they would've needed to start landing more troops ASAP at that airport for it to be useful, the moment ukraine realizes it's being held, they'd have just shelled the runway into dust and good luck landing your big cargo plane on that bombed to shit runway.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They couldn't land any fucking plane at Hostomel even if they held the airport for months.
        Can you stop this idiocy already? The Ukies would have cratered the shit out of the runway with artillery and mortars.
        Good luck landing an IL76 on the surface of the moon.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      All they had to do was see the cluster fuck that was Market Garden ans realise they rarely work as intended.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >land 100meters from a full staffed military garrison on the airfield
    >reinforcement can't arrived because fuel sold for vodka
    >commanders helicopter (1 of 120+) gets shot down
    poor bastards never had a chance

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Don't forget that the plane which was suppose to fly in 200 reinforcements soldiers got shot down on the way.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The claim of 2 Il-76s being downed never got confirmed, and no wreckages were found.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If they did in 2014 they might be alive now

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If the Russoids actually knew how to use paratroopers they wouldn't have been BTFO. But because we are talking about Russia, they screwed themselves.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they failed because they were cowards, traitors, and saboteurs.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      El goblio homo soveticus de las Eurasia

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Finally, we see why Putin has such a long table in his office.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Underrated.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They were fucked from day 1. The VDV aren't bad at fighting, in fact I'd argue they did pretty well considering the circumstances. The problem being when you drop a bunch of fleshy meat men into your opponent's capital city without any armored support, then never bother linking up with them, they tend to get anally violated with heavy ordinance before accomplishing anything interesting.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, Russian doctrine and leadership is absolute dogshit and seems like it always has been. They would have been better off if Germany beat them in ww2 and trained their officer corps.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Air assault battalion sized element to enemy held airfield behind lines (baller move IMO)
    >can’t send fixed wing assets because I can’t SEAD
    >Well, let’s just send a land convoy using thin skinned airborne armored vehicles

    Why didn’t they send a second battalion using helicopters? Did they not have enough helicopters from the first sortie survive? Did they not have more helicopters?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don’t remember the exact number, but something about one third of first wave helis were shot down by national guard with fucking igla’s, not even stingers. That was even before special forces came to slaughter those who have landed successfully, so russians were probably too scared to send reinforcements.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >carried out their suicidal orders?
    There's transcripts out there of VDV POW's who got on their choppers and were not told until they're in fight that they're going to Ukraine to take an airport and that was their orders.
    Now, dunno if you're from a military background, but that's just not what you do unless its some kind of super urgent counter terrorism type of thing when you need hard charging, door kicking and extreme violence. Which most people will retort with "well thats what they did and had to do, whats the difference?"
    >They failed horribly
    So, if you have a plan of taking over a very large amount of ground in an enemy country you need to plan around this. You want your guys knowing where they got to be when they hit the ground running, what parts of the area you need them securing, who will be detailed to clearing certain areas and any kind of fall back positions if something goes completely balls up. Theres also going to need to be places they can go if they get wounded, who will have the food, is there somewhere we can get ammo and a good deal of memorisation of the maps- so if someone says, pull your squad out and go reinforce sector A-10, they know what's going on and where to go.

    Basically they were fucked one way or another because the other factor is they got lied to about expected opposition, not that there was much you can do about it when you're now doing 300km/h and flying over the border
    If it matters, everyone else going over that border was just as fucked or even worse off with even less info!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. Mission tactics vs. command tactics.
      Russia doesn't trust their soldiers to handle mission tactics. Funny enough they get anally raped by that again after WW2.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Thing that grinds my gears is just how fucking archaic it is.
        This is the shit we used to read about in books about how they'd train soldiers to stand in lines and volley fire as the peak performance of its time, but that was so fucking long ago its just ridiculous. Its not like training people is at all hard either, the last 70 odd years of warfare, psychology and group behaviour has outlined this to the point its really not very hard to get people to competency and a really fundamental part of leadership in the I trust you and you trust me relationship between CO, NCO and Enlisted.
        Tragic as it seems, the people I used to serve with in hindsight were some of the most reliable and trustworthy people I've ever worked with. You get into the civilian sphere of things and its just constant avoidance, lack of responsibility and shirking that it drives you insane after a while, all it took in the military is to ask a solider, I'm going to need you to do this, at this time. If they said, sir I just can't do that then we can figure out a way of learning you good and proper to do this task so that next time I ask, I know you're going to be able to do it competently.

        Plus on top of all that, you've got to feel the feedback from others. I can do a lot of shit, but I'm only one brain, eyes, ears and set of emotions, so I don't need a dishonest 'Yes' to a question or a solution, I just need the black and white assessment from an NCO, a recon team, my technicians and specialists who'll go- but what if we did this, I saw a hole in there which they don't have covered or a targets behaviour that follows some kind of predictable actions we can use. That gives you a massive advantage when it comes to seizing initiative and confidence in achieving something using all that brain power instead of hope, cope and a half-arsed idea.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Size 60,000 by 2023
      Heh.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >There's transcripts out there of VDV POW's who got on their choppers and were not told until they're in fight that they're going to Ukraine to take an airport and that was their orders.

      yeah not telling your soldiers they are going into combat until near the border is just insane. some of the spetsnaz units clearly knew but most russian units had no idea wtf was happening until they were near the border.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Their fate was sealed 20 years ago

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Who is that?

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even the SAS would be wiped out if their command was stupid.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Russia should have chosen a smaller airport a bit closer to their invasion corridors and actually focused their SEAD on that. Airborne assault of critical airports has been a key russian special forces strategy since the cold war. Should have changed it up.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Ukies would have sent mobile howitzers and crater the fuck out of the runway. have a nice day brainlet.
      Taking an airport inside enemy artillery range is retarded. You are retarded.

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nope. Only if monke addembles the cloak of the undead king will these duded be a viable fighting force in the futire

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    My buddy has a book on a guy travellijg Russia. He describes one scene in a shithole city in siberia where a mother is pushing her baby in a pram down the road. The road collapses in front of her into the sewer, the pram and baby fall in and are washed away in sewage. Apparently it wasnt uncommon in the town.

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It says here that more must be sent

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Jesus christ. I'm reading the machine translation, I'm at the point where he visits Germany and it's better than anything he's seen but he can't find a legal way to stay there. Poor fucking guy. He was trying to get out. He honestly didn't know they'd be sent to attack Ukraine.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He recently got interviewed by BBC, he is in France rn and applied for asylum.

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