Same reason the AR70/90 got replaced by the ARX, or the Beryl got replaced by the Grot. Sometimes theres only so far you can take a design before it becomes expensive and/or impractical to upgrade further.
Also tooling. AR70/90 could be modernized (like the SIG55x series) but Beretta likely sold/wore out the tooling after the initial runs, just like how MAS doesn't have FAMAS tooling so the frogs had to dump it. 100% on point for the Beryl though, AKM is becoming a dead end without major overhauls (Galil ACE, FNC, SIG55x, etc.). To be clear the ARX is better than the AR70/90, and the G36 is better than the CETME L.
Was it a good service weapon? Why did it get replaced with the G36?
It was good enough for a 2nd world power. Its now cheaper/easier to just buy G36's rather than have a domestically produced arm....and Spain is dirt poor.
Do you think they’ll go up in value? I concerned picking one up when I read they’re made from parts kits
Yes. Look at all the Wise-Lite stuff. Never going to be as expensive as an original, but going up more than that Glock 19 or AR15.
The manufacture of the CETME L in Spain was made with the worst machinery, the worst materials, and the worst revision of errors, causing the weapons built in Spain to be of horrible quality, leading a good weapon to be very bad, that's why it was hated in spain
Meanwhile, the new CETME L, being decently produced, are very good.
It amazes me how reliable it is when full of mud and dirt, almost impossible to get stuck.
More a testament to the benefits of roller delayed. Even the wienerroaches have a hard time fricking them up.
>2nd world power >dirt poor
Spain was neither in the 1980s when the Cetme L was adopted. Along the Ameli MG, it was a decent design fricked up by production and QC issues.
A somewhat similar case to the L85A1, except that the well made Cetme Ls worked well, but instead of trying to fix the bad batches (which were most of them) Spain decided to buy G36s at the end of the 90s.
>Spain >2nd world
But they were never part of the Warsaw Pact or in any relationship with the Soviets. Why do morons insist on butchering the meaning of first, second, and third world?
>It was good enough for a 2nd world power. Its now cheaper/easier to just buy G36's rather than have a domestically produced arm....and Spain is dirt poor.
wtf are you talking about
>Its now cheaper/easier to just buy G36's rather than have a domestically produced arm
Spanish G36Es are made under license in Spain, anon, only the first batches were made in Germany. This is also why the G36Es despite the heat in Spain have never experienced some of the issues reported with the german rifles when H&K messed with the original formula of its polymer.
>Was it a good service weapon?
It was shit >Why did it get replaced with the G36?
because it was shit
It had no LRBHO, replaced the more intuitive charging handle notch with an extremely awkward bolt release/hold open (the smaller side of the button is for the release too), an extremely heavy trigger, and so on.
The original rifle cannot mount optics, the DMR had a proprietary one, and they can only use STANAG magazines, though to be fair all of that would have been an afterthought at the time it was designed.
The part that cemented its reputation though was that the original Spanish rifles had very poor quality of manufacture, especially magazines and springs.
The new Marcolmar made rifles are very reliable in my experience and fun to shoot however. They can't use original Spanish mags reliably ironically enough
Honestly the AR70/90 and Beryl's service life could have been stretched out a lot longer than this thing
>the original Spanish rifles had very poor quality of manufacture, especially magazines and springs
It depends. The first series made for the Guardia Civil (paramilitary police) and spanish marines were made to spec and were reliable. They later tried to cut costs with the main production series for the army, and those were the ones with endless QC issues and very unreliable.
I'm leaning on Beretta for this one for now. If FB can iron out the MSBS's problems, I think its modularity and seemingly better ergonomics would work in their favor.
Is it inherently a turd, or if I were a competent smith that's already done a CETME C would it be good to go?
They'll run fine if you make one yourself or buy a Marcolmar
Wouldn't be the first time.
>and worse case you die test firing it. >Wouldn't be the first time.
uh, what happened the first time? are you a ghost?
The manual of arms is really weird, even for a H&K derivative of that era. Apparently it had awful QC issues from the factory that the military couldn't figure out how to fix, and they decided that since the gun was about a generation behind anyways, it would be easier to just hop on the G36 train.
I have a marcolmar clone and I love it despite it's flaws. Super fun to shoot and it always turns heads at the range.
>Do you think they’ll go up in value?
Every gun is going up in value. But yes I would pick one up if you have the extra cash for a fun weapon. Eventually the parts kits will run out
MKE is saying they are going to start importing G3's and HK33's soon however.
The Turks also have the only license and all of the OG tooling for the HK G41 which means the odds are good we get a STANAG HK33
Might actually happen. Mexicans just launched a semi auto version of the FX05 and are working on different caliber variants.
Mexicans have euro style caliber restrictions that are going to preclude them from getting it in .223/5.56 because hurr durr military caliber
Is it inherently a turd, or if I were a competent smith that's already done a CETME C would it be good to go?
Marcolmar is fine, the platform itself is a mid HK33 redesign with drastically less aftermarket....but the advantage of taking STANAG mags (actual mag fitment varies - they won't fit most generations of PMAG and the magwell is sometimes tight even on USGI 30's)
Nope, was a cheap, flimsy piece of shit but was cheap enough to make the transition from 7,62 to 5,56 as everyone in NATO was doing.
>Why did it get replaced with the G36?
Because it was just a stopgap solution to begin with, as by late 80 and early 90's no one knew what the future of small arms would be.By the time the Spanish Army was picking the Cetme C things like the G11 or the AAI ACR were the future, but not just yet here... so better pick something cheap to move on and, in the future, we'll pick whatever the rest of NATO picks.
Well, that future died with the Iron Curtain and the G36 was chosen back in 98.
The manufacture of the CETME L in Spain was made with the worst machinery, the worst materials, and the worst revision of errors, causing the weapons built in Spain to be of horrible quality, leading a good weapon to be very bad, that's why it was hated in spain
Meanwhile, the new CETME L, being decently produced, are very good.
It amazes me how reliable it is when full of mud and dirt, almost impossible to get stuck.
This, it was all about the budget, the company said that with that budget could made it good and strong or good and light, de department of defence said "I want it good and strong and light for the same price".
Could be a no export or civilian sales clause in the license contract, or they don't want to go through the "non-sporting" bullshit to import then fix the gun like other manufactures.
>I wonder why no country with a production license for the G36
Because the Germans are gay and hate private gun ownership. The Mexicans made a copy though which I hope gets sold to the civilian market here.
The Mexican rifle only looks similar but is closer to an AK internally. And I doubt they'll (legally) sell it to US civilians since their constitution prohibits exporting weapons
>since their constitution prohibits exporting weapons
It doesn't that's a myth. They still export .22 Mendoza rifles and handguns. Trejo just recently started selling handguns again too. They just don't export any full auto firearms for civil sale. Mexico actually just sold drones armed with Turkish air to ground missiles to Guatemala too.
Pretty shit, just like the Krauts with their g36’s, once they fought alongside the Americans and held the M4, they became instantly disillusioned and dropped it as fast as they could
My LGS had one of these new production from parts kits on consignment. Boomer owner read the arfcom version of how it was developed and was convinced it was a nazi prototype super weapon made by SS-paranormal division troops that scryed into the future, found out america would develop the AR-15, and tried to counteract it.
No this isn't bullshit, and he wanted 3,600$ for the 4moa rifle to boot.
Why are boomers like this?
I have one. It's shitty. The G3 and all of its derivatives are a fundamentally flawed design. The CETME L fixed a lot of the problems that the G3 has, but it's still mid as hell and worse than an AR in every way.
>worse than an AR in every way
It was made in the era when the fudlore about the M16 being unreliable was at their height, plus their magazines being shit and causing many issues. The spaniards tested the M16A2 along the "good" CETME L and preferred the later. They were also more used to their manaul of arms.
>they picked the CETME over the M16 because of shitty mags
First of all, they use the same damn magazine, and second, Spanish magazines were notoriously shitty, so bad that whenever there were joint NATO exercises the dagos would steal magazines from their allies
The CETME L was developed before 30rd mags with green followers were issued, anon. Those were the ones stolen or bought in the 90s.
Even if the CETME L mags were even worse later, the original M16 mags with black followers caused many issues that were unjustly blamed in the rifle itself.
>they picked the CETME over the M16 because of shitty mags
First of all, they use the same damn magazine, and second, Spanish magazines were notoriously shitty, so bad that whenever there were joint NATO exercises the dagos would steal magazines from their allies
Spanish army used STANAG NATO issue mags. Problem was that those mags were intended to be discarded after few uses but in reality never were.
I have a strange love for them like the FNC I have shot both extensively and they are pretty shit as far as ergos and any sort of modern conveniences like optics and lights. But they are still kinda cool like the FNC and Daewoo K2
Me too, my LGS had some ins tock when they are around $1k and I like the aesthetic but couldn’t think of a reassign to get it. (Unlike that FNC para I’ll snag one day ).
Spanish army gay here, the CETME L was so shitty that our Air Force after testing it never adopted it. They carried on with the venerable CETME C until the G36E dropped in the mid-00´s
G36 is lighter, cheaper to produce and maintain probably.
Same reason the AR70/90 got replaced by the ARX, or the Beryl got replaced by the Grot. Sometimes theres only so far you can take a design before it becomes expensive and/or impractical to upgrade further.
Also tooling. AR70/90 could be modernized (like the SIG55x series) but Beretta likely sold/wore out the tooling after the initial runs, just like how MAS doesn't have FAMAS tooling so the frogs had to dump it. 100% on point for the Beryl though, AKM is becoming a dead end without major overhauls (Galil ACE, FNC, SIG55x, etc.). To be clear the ARX is better than the AR70/90, and the G36 is better than the CETME L.
It was good enough for a 2nd world power. Its now cheaper/easier to just buy G36's rather than have a domestically produced arm....and Spain is dirt poor.
Yes. Look at all the Wise-Lite stuff. Never going to be as expensive as an original, but going up more than that Glock 19 or AR15.
More a testament to the benefits of roller delayed. Even the wienerroaches have a hard time fricking them up.
>2nd world power
>dirt poor
Spain was neither in the 1980s when the Cetme L was adopted. Along the Ameli MG, it was a decent design fricked up by production and QC issues.
A somewhat similar case to the L85A1, except that the well made Cetme Ls worked well, but instead of trying to fix the bad batches (which were most of them) Spain decided to buy G36s at the end of the 90s.
>Spain
>2nd world
But they were never part of the Warsaw Pact or in any relationship with the Soviets. Why do morons insist on butchering the meaning of first, second, and third world?
There are two types of people on earth: Americans and Commies, and I don't see any Americans over there.
Thanks for clearing the mistake anon, Spain is actually third world
>and Spain is dirt poor.
huh?
>It was good enough for a 2nd world power. Its now cheaper/easier to just buy G36's rather than have a domestically produced arm....and Spain is dirt poor.
wtf are you talking about
>Its now cheaper/easier to just buy G36's rather than have a domestically produced arm
Spanish G36Es are made under license in Spain, anon, only the first batches were made in Germany. This is also why the G36Es despite the heat in Spain have never experienced some of the issues reported with the german rifles when H&K messed with the original formula of its polymer.
>Mexicans can make a better rifle than Germany
Anon I.....
Unironically they do
Looks cool honestly
They did and got sued by HK for it
Which went nowhere because it isn't the same gun. Frick HK and frick germoids.
They did. H&K got so assblasted by it that they tried to sue them and lost.
>when H&K messed with the original formula of its polymer
You are misinformed.
>Was it a good service weapon?
It was shit
>Why did it get replaced with the G36?
because it was shit
It had no LRBHO, replaced the more intuitive charging handle notch with an extremely awkward bolt release/hold open (the smaller side of the button is for the release too), an extremely heavy trigger, and so on.
The original rifle cannot mount optics, the DMR had a proprietary one, and they can only use STANAG magazines, though to be fair all of that would have been an afterthought at the time it was designed.
The part that cemented its reputation though was that the original Spanish rifles had very poor quality of manufacture, especially magazines and springs.
The new Marcolmar made rifles are very reliable in my experience and fun to shoot however. They can't use original Spanish mags reliably ironically enough
Honestly the AR70/90 and Beryl's service life could have been stretched out a lot longer than this thing
>the original Spanish rifles had very poor quality of manufacture, especially magazines and springs
It depends. The first series made for the Guardia Civil (paramilitary police) and spanish marines were made to spec and were reliable. They later tried to cut costs with the main production series for the army, and those were the ones with endless QC issues and very unreliable.
Real question is did FB or Radom make the better successor?
*Beretta
I'm leaning on Beretta for this one for now. If FB can iron out the MSBS's problems, I think its modularity and seemingly better ergonomics would work in their favor.
They'll run fine if you make one yourself or buy a Marcolmar
>and worse case you die test firing it.
>Wouldn't be the first time.
uh, what happened the first time? are you a ghost?
>are you a ghost
Not anymore, I got wished back with the dragon balls.
I love the Beretta, and hope they can gen 2 it with modern extended handguards, cheek riser, and can ready gas block.
The manual of arms is really weird, even for a H&K derivative of that era. Apparently it had awful QC issues from the factory that the military couldn't figure out how to fix, and they decided that since the gun was about a generation behind anyways, it would be easier to just hop on the G36 train.
I have a marcolmar clone and I love it despite it's flaws. Super fun to shoot and it always turns heads at the range.
The magazines were shit, that's about it really
Looks like a wacky G3/MP5
Hmmm I wonder why
Do you think they’ll go up in value? I concerned picking one up when I read they’re made from parts kits
>Do you think they’ll go up in value?
Every gun is going up in value. But yes I would pick one up if you have the extra cash for a fun weapon. Eventually the parts kits will run out
Yes but nothing like an HK33 clone would.
MKE is saying they are going to start importing G3's and HK33's soon however.
The Turks also have the only license and all of the OG tooling for the HK G41 which means the odds are good we get a STANAG HK33
Mexicans have euro style caliber restrictions that are going to preclude them from getting it in .223/5.56 because hurr durr military caliber
Marcolmar is fine, the platform itself is a mid HK33 redesign with drastically less aftermarket....but the advantage of taking STANAG mags (actual mag fitment varies - they won't fit most generations of PMAG and the magwell is sometimes tight even on USGI 30's)
>Was it a good service weapon?
Nope, was a cheap, flimsy piece of shit but was cheap enough to make the transition from 7,62 to 5,56 as everyone in NATO was doing.
>Why did it get replaced with the G36?
Because it was just a stopgap solution to begin with, as by late 80 and early 90's no one knew what the future of small arms would be.By the time the Spanish Army was picking the Cetme C things like the G11 or the AAI ACR were the future, but not just yet here... so better pick something cheap to move on and, in the future, we'll pick whatever the rest of NATO picks.
Well, that future died with the Iron Curtain and the G36 was chosen back in 98.
>By the time the Spanish Army was picking the Cetme C things like the G11 or the AAI ACR were the future
this homie is drunk
I think his point just goes over your head.
The manufacture of the CETME L in Spain was made with the worst machinery, the worst materials, and the worst revision of errors, causing the weapons built in Spain to be of horrible quality, leading a good weapon to be very bad, that's why it was hated in spain
Meanwhile, the new CETME L, being decently produced, are very good.
It amazes me how reliable it is when full of mud and dirt, almost impossible to get stuck.
This, it was all about the budget, the company said that with that budget could made it good and strong or good and light, de department of defence said "I want it good and strong and light for the same price".
Yeah, we know what happened...
I wonder why no country with a production license for the G36 has never tried to sell them in America like the MP5 clones
Could be a no export or civilian sales clause in the license contract, or they don't want to go through the "non-sporting" bullshit to import then fix the gun like other manufactures.
>I wonder why no country with a production license for the G36
Because the Germans are gay and hate private gun ownership. The Mexicans made a copy though which I hope gets sold to the civilian market here.
Might actually happen. Mexicans just launched a semi auto version of the FX05 and are working on different caliber variants.
The Mexican rifle only looks similar but is closer to an AK internally. And I doubt they'll (legally) sell it to US civilians since their constitution prohibits exporting weapons
>since their constitution prohibits exporting weapons
It doesn't that's a myth. They still export .22 Mendoza rifles and handguns. Trejo just recently started selling handguns again too. They just don't export any full auto firearms for civil sale. Mexico actually just sold drones armed with Turkish air to ground missiles to Guatemala too.
The g36 gets squishy
Pretty shit, just like the Krauts with their g36’s, once they fought alongside the Americans and held the M4, they became instantly disillusioned and dropped it as fast as they could
My LGS had one of these new production from parts kits on consignment. Boomer owner read the arfcom version of how it was developed and was convinced it was a nazi prototype super weapon made by SS-paranormal division troops that scryed into the future, found out america would develop the AR-15, and tried to counteract it.
No this isn't bullshit, and he wanted 3,600$ for the 4moa rifle to boot.
Why are boomers like this?
Anon you missed out on an stg 46 from an alternate timeline that slipped into ours.
>Why are boomers like this?
all that lead and asbestos could not be stopped by the blood-brain barrier
I have one. It's shitty. The G3 and all of its derivatives are a fundamentally flawed design. The CETME L fixed a lot of the problems that the G3 has, but it's still mid as hell and worse than an AR in every way.
I agree, but it still looks cool, so there’s atleast that reason to get one like the AK, shit but aesthetic
>worse than an AR in every way
It was made in the era when the fudlore about the M16 being unreliable was at their height, plus their magazines being shit and causing many issues. The spaniards tested the M16A2 along the "good" CETME L and preferred the later. They were also more used to their manaul of arms.
>they picked the CETME over the M16 because of shitty mags
First of all, they use the same damn magazine, and second, Spanish magazines were notoriously shitty, so bad that whenever there were joint NATO exercises the dagos would steal magazines from their allies
The CETME L was developed before 30rd mags with green followers were issued, anon. Those were the ones stolen or bought in the 90s.
Even if the CETME L mags were even worse later, the original M16 mags with black followers caused many issues that were unjustly blamed in the rifle itself.
Spanish army used STANAG NATO issue mags. Problem was that those mags were intended to be discarded after few uses but in reality never were.
flawed how?
Is it inherently a turd, or if I were a competent smith that's already done a CETME C would it be good to go?
Marcolmar seems to have no problems pumping them out en masse. You should be fine, and worse case you die test firing it.
Wouldn't be the first time.
I have a strange love for them like the FNC I have shot both extensively and they are pretty shit as far as ergos and any sort of modern conveniences like optics and lights. But they are still kinda cool like the FNC and Daewoo K2
Me too, my LGS had some ins tock when they are around $1k and I like the aesthetic but couldn’t think of a reassign to get it. (Unlike that FNC para I’ll snag one day ).
Spanish army gay here, the CETME L was so shitty that our Air Force after testing it never adopted it. They carried on with the venerable CETME C until the G36E dropped in the mid-00´s
The same reason Volkswagen emissions scandal got swept under the rug; KBF - Kraut's bribery found.
It didnt in the US
If only the BHO wasn't at the rear sight.