For my entire life, I thought that cave diving meant dicking around in LARGE underground caverns. Never once did I think these morons actually spent their entire time crawling through narrowing, spiky, twisting, potentially dead end passages with no room to turn around in. How the FRICK does that not trigger alarm bells in your mind? I understand extreme sports like climbing mountains or skiing down them or deep scuba dives or venturing through the Amazons but CAVE DIVING? FRICK THAT SHIT. I'm getting claustrophobia just thinking about the Jon Jones Nutty Putty Cave accident and this guy was smart enough to get into MEDICAL SCHOOL. How the shit does something like this happen?
the nutty putty guy was a mormon and deserved to die for spreading a hate-filled cult that teaches people to demonize others for who they are
The nutty putty guy was a fricking moron who ruined caving for everyone else. Frick that butthole.
FCRPA ruined caving:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Cave_Resources_Protection_Act_of_1988
>was a fricking moron
religious people are inbred idiots what else is new
>who ruined caving for everyone else.
There's plenty of other morons who got stuck cave diving risking other rescuer's lives in the process. There's a reason why claustrophobia exists. It's your body telling you to stop being a fricking moron because you might die. I'm kinda glad some caves got sealed up because again, anytime someone needs help, there's hundreds of volunteers lining up risking their lives who really shouldn't. It's one thing if there's a cave in, in some large cavern. Completely different story if you crawled through 5 miles of a narrow tunnel as large as your laptop screen.
As much as i dont wanna say it, this: he went down the wrong hole and kept crawling farther and farther even after all signs pointed to something not being as he assumed. It wouldve sucked, but he couldve still backed out eventually. It even started heading down at a 45 degree angle, and what did he do?? He kept going. And then eventually it turned almost straight up and down and narrowed down to 10 inches and what did he do?? He kept going
I hate that he was able to spread his defective genes before he died. Circumventing natural selection has proven disastrous for mankind
Yeah that's what I thought the entire time. I felt sorry for the dude but kept thinking he was a dumbass for pushing forward. I feel that cavers do it for 50% dopamine rush and 50% discovery. No one really knows why or how John ended up in that fissure. Some think that when he started sliding down that descent, the momentum was enough to push him into the fissure. Others think he was checking it out and fell in by accident. To my knowledge he never said what happened before he died only that it was impossible to turn around for a caver his size. The 5'4 chick who came to rescue him was way smaller and could turn around more easily.
I would literally jump out of a plane before caving. At least if my parachute fricked up, the death would be instantaneously. I would hate to lay inverted in a fissure suffering for 28 hours. RIP.
is there a bigger illustration of the entire path he took starting from the outside
I'd like to see this as well.
picrel
>The real tragedy is completely seal off such an awesome cave, because of one person's stupidity.
They had to seal it off because his death would have attracted tenfold more cavers and there would have been tenfold more accidents and the family that owned the land were sick and tired of the constant back to back rescue efforts.
Literally just discovery and having your name go into the history books.
He was a med student, he wasn't an MD. And he had a family he neglected by going on high risk hobbies because he needed his dopamine fix. Also every caver should know there's quite literally a 50/50 risk of going down a path that leads to a DEAD END. It either opens up or it doesn't. Simple as. Sooner or later you have to call it much like an airplane pilot who is about to reach the point of no return with fuel. Do not mistake bravery for stupidity. The dude kept doubling down and could not critically think to save his own life.
so that green map is that horizontal or vertical
what is that upward area from the entrance
That should be a bird's eye view anon.
Should be a side view.
Would be easier if you just watch the video:
This is true in theory, you aren't wrong, but in reality it just works differently. The way back requires a ton more work and as we see in a lot of these videos, once cavers get stuck, they simply can't get unstuck by themselves and require help. The rope placement was just there to lift his feet out of the fissure. He had to bend them so the rescue caver could help pull him out but by the time they got everything installed, John was in severe pain and couldn't bend his feet anymore thus it made the attempt impossible.
you know what was the problem right? the rescuers forgot to bring wd40
I'm just 5:07 seconds in and already feeling constricted. These guys are nuts. Really, something is wrong inside their minds.
if someone can slide into a hole they can definitely slide out just the force will have to be applied from the outside through the same path that they went in
whats that moronic rope placement over his feet that shows it's doing the opposite
Did he not have functioning ankles? Feet getting stuck like that is such a moronic reason to not get pulled out.
I can bend my foot forwards so that they are in a line with my leg, but OK he's wearing boots. I can also easily turn my feet sideways 90 degrees.
Let's 'pill him, bois.
>it was a botched rescue
The rescue was botched. Your infographic shows that the rescue team didn't know frick all with anchors. Will they get charged with fricking up? Nah.
They needed to get him lubed up with industrial lubricant, sedate him as much as possible so his muscles go limp but not suffocating him and then winch him the frick out. Who gives a shit if his legs broke.
It's mentioned somewhere in this thread that the rescuer who could get to him was a woman. So they explains a lot.
> sedate him as much as possible so his muscles go limp but not suffocating him
This is a good idea in theory but difficult. A lot of pain killers suppress breathing. Some that don’t (NSAIDs) aren’t as strong. Direct muscle relaxants don’t really exist, they are more antispasmodic or anxiolytic than anything else. Also how do you plan to administer them? Oral? IM? Probably IV in the foot. By who? A doctor who also knows spelunking? Or just teach a rescue guy and hope he doesn’t frick up? Good luck finding one and getting him there in 24 hours. It’s def worth a shot and better than to hope for the best but I don’t think it would have done anything. Shit is fricked from all possible solutions anon.
>By who? A doctor who also knows spelunking? Or just teach a rescue guy and hope he doesn’t frick up?
this was the plot of Armageddon and they basically decided to teach the doctor to spelunk
frick that. If I ever get to the point where I cant crouch walk through a tunnel I'm done. No way would I be sliding on my stomach through 10" crevices
t. pathetic surface dweller
Just looking at this makes my skin crawl. I'm not exactly claustrophobic but this terrifies me. I'll take falling to my death over drowning in 2 inches of water every time.
>the dude kept doubling down
He took a wrong turn. He thought he was in a mapped area of the cave and would have a space to turn around further ahead. By the time he realized what had happened he was stuck. It could have all been avoided if he had taken up a different hobby like disc golf or building gundam models, but don't act like he made a conscious decision to get stuck and die alone just for the sake of stubbornness.
I'm pretty confident more people have died from making Gundam models than caving, probably suicide.
>Ed’s Push
>Bob’s Push
The naming convention is hilarious. No pomp or pageantry.
It's named by people who explore caves as a hobby.
Holy. Frick. No. Im on OP’s team, doing this is suicidal and HELL NO. HELL NO. I’m having a physical reaction just imagining crawling into a space like that.
if it were me in that fissure I would just pass out and pray I would never wake up again
>50/50 risk of going down a path that leads to a DEAD END. It either opens up or it doesn't. Simple as.
Kek this is bait right?
You totally should jump out of a plane. It's an insane adrenaline rush! It's super fun. And parachutes are really safe. Skydiving is definitely worth it .
I do kind of agree with this. But people had gone into that passage before and needed rescue (some boy scouts, who were smaller, and were successfully pulled out).
But it was moronic to breathe in to try to squeeze further until he was totally trapped. The real tragedy is completely seal off such an awesome cave, because of one person's stupidity. With something like caving, you have to expect some incidents and even some deaths. It's the nature of the endeavour. Would you say nobody is ever allowed to skydive again if one person doesn't strap on the parachute properly or doesn't open it?
Every single cave we have discovered and mapped was because of someone (a man, always) making the exact same decision to push forwards, through a passage that seemed too small. How else would caves be discovered? When it works, the passage or cave gets named after you, "<your name>'s push", or you name it yourself.
A lot of cavers have been really fortunate. But at some point, a Nutty Putty incident will happen, and in fact many such incidents have happened for hundreds of years all over the world. Nutty Putty was a particularly horrifying case due to the nature of the cave and the failed of rescue. The real crime was sealing the whole thing off like a tomb.
Why don't they dynamite it into a larger passage
Not sure if that's a serious suggestion. It likely would have collapsed the cave and killed everyone involved. Are you suggesting they should have just blown John Edward Jones up?
yes, all religious people should be exploded
their magical bullshit weakens our society tremendously
God,,,,magic?
,,,,,Hug atree,,,askabear.
*tips fedora*
Yes removing moral barriers from people's actions, destroying the nuclear family and propping up the LGBT mental illness has really saved society. We're 100% better off now. You idiot
>Are you suggesting they should have just blown John Edward Jones up?
No, I don't specifically mean dynamite, that was just for hyperbole. But if there''s a little tiny passage somewhere that connects two larger chambers, why don't they just chisel it out to make it easier to pass.
>inb4 gatekeeping
Chiselling a new cave passage would take days/weeks and he was in a critical position - which is why he died from being upside down so long.
would jackhammers have been an option??
Hammerdrilling stronger anchors into the rock to winch him out would've been an option.
Too bad they didn't think of that, eh.
Blowing him up would have been merciful
What’s the point of discovering caves? Are you a fricking dwarf looking for gold? It is beyond moronic
Post ears you fricking elf
People don't breathe in, squeeze through, and say a prayer for their mortal coil though. They find a new narrow gap, take some tools, and bore their way through if they deem it worthwhile. A lot of caves have been excavated like that as a way of prolonging a route.
This guy was an absolute madlad and sadly he paid the price. I'd never wish that death on anyone.
hell yeah, humanity would be off way worse without all those discovered and mapped mudholes erm i mean caves
He took a wrong turn and was expecting a chamber. Instead of giving up and crying for rescue like a b***h, he decided to preserve and push forward. It’s hilarious you cowardly homosexuals are too scared to enter a cave and you still think you’re better. Even more funny that he managed to get an MD and start a family which is more than any of you will ever accomplish in your entire lives.
>Instead of giving up and crying for rescue like a b***h, he decided to preserve and push forward.
Do you realize he was fricked even before he ended up in that fissure? Picrel. He was too big and tall to turn around, he would have had to go up that 45 degree slide in reverse, feet first, and then somehow forced his feet through that narrow ass ledge while supporting his entire body with his hands planted on a rock slide. That entire slide was uncharted territory for a reason. Cavers before him took one look at it and 180'd the frick on outta there. The entire cave was mapped except that one part even professionals realized was dangerous. He would have needed a rescue regardless. He made his situation even worse by ending up in that fissure.
I don't understand why extreme activities like spelunking and free diving piss people that don't even do it off so much. If humans had remained as risk averse as people think they should, we'd never be where we are today. The wreckless make their contributions. Sometimes they just catch morons in their midst. As this anon describes every other person that found that spot in Nutty Putty knew it was a bad idea.
>The wreckless make their contributions
Like discovering a fissure and then dying in it?
>I don't understand why extreme activities like spelunking and free diving piss people that don't even do it off so much
Who do you think has to rescue their ass? Non morons who knew it was a bad idea but gotta do it anyways because they don't want you to suffer.
Usually the rescue teams are comprised of people that are into it and know the risks.
Nope
You're speaking from experience?
>just push forward at all costs for some moronic goal that accomplishes nothing but orphaning your wife and kid. Youre literally gay if you're not that dumb!!!
Yes. This is why men exist, to have kids, take risks, and maybe leave the kids behind if the risks don't pay out. Been that way since the dawn of mankind but the homosexual nerds on Four Chan are so fricking scared they'll never do anything. Stay pic related dorks, I'm sure your kids will thank for it.
>b-but well I don't actually have kids
Wow, shocking, wonder why. Still too much of a pussy to do anything even with nothing on the line.
>what-is-a-strawman.jpg
This. It's Black person-tier logic at best. Only Black folk are incapable of rationalizing and long-term planning. The idea of
>dude just keep pushing forward nothing bad will happen lmao
is embarrassingly stupid.
>I'll just keep this line cook job at mcdonalds forever, trying to get a new job is risky and not worth it
t. Mr. Basedson McSofthands.
And he threw it all away over trying to impress his brother. The world doesn’t miss him, and his wife is now getting her pussy coated in some other mans cream.
Kek wasn't she the one that found a new man six months after her husband died? He was probably already getting cucked and he didn't know it.
Stop molesting children.
That’s mostly a religious people thing, though.
Just stop it.
Oh totally, it's definitely religious people brainwashing children to be trans. You tool
I think he was referring to the incidents with religious communities hiding sexual abuse and rape of kids.
You know why you hear about those stories? Precisely because it's not common. It makes for good headlines. You know why you don't hear about the majority of homosexual atheist child abusers? Because it's a daily thing and expected. Same reason why when a Black person in my ghetto neighborhood shoots another Black person, it never makes it past a slight mention in local news. If THAT even.
I had a good laugh, thank you!
>complains about demonizing others based on their personal characteristics
>immediately demonizes an entire religious group for no reason
He didn't demonize them though.
He literally said Mormonism is a hate-filled cult and Mormons deserve to die for that reason. By extension, he's saying all Mormons are hateful to a degree that deserves death. How is that not demonizing them?
Pedophiles hate to be called out. Most people who hate religion only hate it because the reminder that God exists makes them feel guilty for their life of sin and scares them because they know where they're going when they leave this earth.
Not the dude who’s got some grudge against mormons but honestly, the stuff Christians believe in is just pretty childish. And hey, don’t talk shit about pedophiles or you’ll get excommunicated.
You're thinking of catholics, also maybe try reading the Bible before calling it childish. The arguments against it don't make sense. What's the worst that can happen if you live a good Christian life? You live morally and leave behind a loving family. Or you write it all off so you can somehow feel justified that you won't face eternal punishment for your crimes.
The worst thing? The Muslims are correct and you spend eternity in damnation being tortured for apostasy. Tard. Or the Hindus. Or the asatru. Or literally everyone but you.
NTA but are you saying living a good, moral life treating others well and leaving a legacy of a family that will carry on similar positive behavior isn't worth it if you don't get some eternal reward at the end? This seems like a strange take if your stance is also that you only get one shot at life.
I’m quite familiar with a lot of the stories of the Bible because I’m a pretty sophisticated guy. That’s exactly why I think they’re childish.
I’m not making a case against living a good Christian life, I’m just stating that believing in the fairytales associated with it is a sign of naivete.
Yeah I feel like I'm in a really strange boat with this. I value the morals of religion but I really can't bring myself to believe.
If you look at religion as a social code with eternal reward/punishment to back it up and try to envision what the creators were pushing for it makes sense. A lot of it is just putting normal social convention in writing and having all-seeing sky daddy make sure you don't think you can get away with anything and also get rewarded for everything you do. Circumstances have changed since the books were written, but the human condition hasn't much, so it makes sense that religion that manages to hold a community and survive generally has appealing morals. I don't think you need to worship to read passage, get the underlying message of things and think "hey, that's a good thought. The rest is kinda weird though. "
Like the guy in the Titanic submarine?
>dissolve a bunch of highly compressed nitrogen into your bloodstream
>get disoriented and scared
>surface early
>all of your blood is now rapidly coagulating sudsy foam forming thousands of individual air embolisms
>spend the rest of your brief lifespan begging people to shoot you while they try to ignore your screams and perform CPR on your already dead father, who followed you up
nice hobby
Why the hell did they do the one thing every man and their dog knows not to do?
Complicated series of horrendous interlocked frickups. It was relatively early days and they were using compressed air instead of the trimix they were used to (to save money), made some bad mistakes and had some scary mishaps while heavily narced, lost track of their decompression stage tanks, the son panicked and surfaced, the father followed for whatever reason.
You’re supposed to extract the lessons from the stories not believe them as factual accounts
The fundamentalists gave Christianity a bad name. The stories are metaphors.
You are not sophisticated you homosexualy reddit pseud
Good for them, that's why I eat at Chick-fil-A.
kek saved
newbie
trans people were literally never mentioned once in this thread until you brought them up
>trans
>people
Pick one and only one, homosexual.
What Aimpoint do you have mounted there? Also are those quadrails?
Haven't you been crying this whole thread "they hate who I am"? You brought it up homosexual
Ok groomer
>cult that brainwashes you from a young age to believe things you wouldn't otherwise that restrict your body and mandate cruelty to others
>somehow, SOMEHOW, *I'm* the groomer
>brainwashes you from a young age to believe things you wouldn't otherwise that restrict your body and mandate c
by this definition most schools or any other education provider is "grooming", you fricking moron
who said I approve of schools? It's glorified daycare to give roasties time off from watching their spawn
You relished his slow, excruciating demise just because he came from a certain background. Strict Mormon people don't go around exploring caves, they stay in their own lane, which suggests that this guy was doing his own thing. In other words, your opinion was fricked from the start so whatever.
he thinks my feelings don't matter because of who I am, it's not so much that I enjoy his demise, as feel a sense of relief
>strict mormons can't go into caves
cmon
CMON
You presume to know exactly what he thinks because of what religion he associates with.
Who are you. You keep saying "who I am" but never clarify that topic. The fact you're ashamed to say it out loud should clue you in that it's wrong.
You've never read the Bible or been to church have you? I'll agree the Mormons are wrong. But you've definitely got something else on your conscience that you're running away from.
YWNBAW
Speaking of women, here's a recent story about a woman who died while caving last week.
>entire article just basically repeats
>"a woman fell 100 feet to her death, but in a cave"
msm is fricking DEAD
i agree. but not because he is mormon did he deserve this thats just a bonus he is a piece of shit moron who went into an area that was OFF limits for a reason. and than the dumbass instead of saying "mother earth dont want me to go here" decides I DONT CARE WHAT MOTHER EARTH SAYS IM GOING IN and than dies. feeling sorry for this guy is like feeling sorry for idiots that walk on barely frozen lakes and than fall into them and die.
S for spit
>OFF limits
Where did you read that, Jim?
>this much fricking hate over fricking nothing
Lol
that's all religions for you
what a fricking demophobe
Do swiss seats work for pulling people out of tunnels?
There's probably a better way for pulling backwards
That's not Saddam Hussein.
It's a special kind of autism that you have to have to understand. I grew up in the Appalachians around a shitload of caves and have done a bunch of caving. I just like being underground, regardless of how uncomfortable it is. Usually, in order to actually get far enough to see the cool shit, you have to suffer through some shitty crawls, sumps, and squeezes. But thats just part of it. One time I did a 1/4 mile crawl through a 12" tall, half water filled channel just to see a cool formation that was on the other side, kek.
>Cave diving
Those motherfrickers are actually suicidal. I've gotten stuck tons of times in dry caves where I'd be dead if I was underwater and had to worry about silting and oxygen. Frick that. Diving is cool, caving is cool, but together, they're hell.
why did you leave appalachia?
Work, unfortunately. Eventually I will head back out that way though. I'm in the Midwest now and I seriously miss the mountains and caving.
Mothman stole my catalytic converter
>One time I did a 1/4 mile crawl through a 12" tall, half water filled channel just to see a cool formation that was on the other side, kek.
Did you think about what would happen if it started to rain? Or if a quake happened? Or if the tunnel collapsed because some moron got scared and started kicking random shit? That's the thing that gets to me the most. And the death is going to be agonizingly painful and long.
>Those motherfrickers are actually suicidal. I've gotten stuck tons of times in dry caves where I'd be dead if I was underwater and had to worry about silting and oxygen.
Back when I was younger and an adrenaline junkie (like max out speedo on the highway moronic), I got scuba certified and remembered from my lessons that cave diving alone was STUPID just from the description. And some morons actually tried doing it AT FRICKMOTHERING NIGHTTIME. Those are people that I really don't feel any remorse for. Like voluntarily walking out onto a minefield for shits and giggles.
>Did you think about what would happen if it started to rain?
Did that cave during the off season and the weather looked excellent for a few days. I always have a mindful watch on the weather when doing deep caves.
>Or if a quake happened?
If a quake hit here where it almost never happens, God just wanted to off me and it is what it is.
>Or if the tunnel collapsed because some moron got scared and started kicking random shit?
I only ever go caving with experienced people that I trust. Joined the NSS and did a lot of trips with people who were pretty knowledgeable and understand cave conditions.
Caving is actually safe as long as you are prepared, do some planning, and aren't moronic. It's a really interesting and physical activity. It has the same sort of challenge as rock climbing. Like, "can I navigate this natural obstacle with only my body?" Seeing parts of Earth that no man before you has ever once seen is pretty cool too.
>And the death is going to be agonizingly painful and long.
>cave diving alone was STUPID
Cave diving in general is stupid. There are lots of old cavers. There are not many old cave divers.
I did a cave tour and the guide who had been doing it for 30 years says they DID get a big earthquake there and everything shook outside but not in the cave. Nothing was loose at all.
It does happen. Some of my closest buddies were in Friars Hole when that big 6.2 earthquake hit Virginia. Said they could see the walls sliding against each other down the main fault of the chamber. But they made it out. Point is, the likelihood is so rare that if it happens, it happens and I'll take the odds.
>see the walls sliding against each other down the main fault of the chamber
Holy shit
I'm in southern Appalachia and my area has the highest cave density in the country
how do I get a trad appalachian cave waifu to found a new tribe of albino with
>Appalachians
Don't get neat the granite caves, the crawlers live there
You need to work on your English, ESL-kun.
People from Appalachia are called hillbillies, not Appalachians.
NTA but "Appalachians" is probably a reference to the area, not the people living there
I just saw an opportunity to joke about hillbillies and took it.
Is it fun to dry poop in a cave? I would find that satisfying.
Sadam Hussein
Not really. The best cave divers in the world are pretty smart people, like that bloke who saved the football team in Thailand or wherever. He's an anesthesiologist and puts the kids to sleep to get them out safely without them panicking.
You need to know a lot about chemistry and mechanics to do it safely, you need to set up habitats so you don't get the bends and you need to have perfect oxygen/gas balances for different depths. It's bloody hard and not for cowboys at all, they end up dead.
Watch the Pearce River dive you YouTube
Many people have lost their survival instincts
The occasional cave-dying threads on spee were the only things keeping that hole alive.
This and abandoned mineshafts are an automatic no, and I am not as risk-averse as I should be. I am lucky to be alive and still those two things are an automatic NO from me.
at least i can sort of get the thrill of exploring a cave and i'm sure it can be done fairly safely if you're cautious, but going into an abandoned mineshaft is literally asking to die
Yeah I've been in beginner caves and it was a great experience because we were all very safe, the squeeze-throughs were not too narrow even for a child. It was a great afternoon in the bowels of the earth. BUT I'm not going down any tiny little passages, not on anyone's money!
why would abandoned mineshafts be especially dangerous?
No, we always had risk takers to explore new options. Even if only one in a hundred of them survive and finds something useful it is still a net benefit to the species. It's throwing shit at the wall until something sticks
>try a new berry
>drink from that animals udder
>make a raft to sail to that island you swear you saw that one clear day
>move your family across the desert because a talking bush told you to
>why would abandoned mineshafts be especially dangerous?
im curious too, since from what I've heard the dangers are practically identical to caves. I mean I know there's the presence of toxic gasses and other industrial pollutants trapped, but beyond that?
>why would abandoned mineshafts be especially dangerous?
Mineshafts are propped up by supports, usually wooden. There also might be shafts covered by boards, but invisible because theres a layer of dirt on top. The wood can be in any state of decomposition and just moving around and touching stuff could cause of cave in or you just fall through the floor down a shaft.
Natural caves are a lot more stable and you are less likely to get buried alive.
>why would abandoned mineshafts be especially dangerous?
Toxic gas, radon, or lack of sufficient oxygen. Old, unstable explosives that detonate on touch. Wooden supports that can collapse at any moment. Wooden planks that can be hiding under layers of dirt you can fall through. Sudden, steep ledges and holes.
an abandoned copper mine from the 50s near where I used to live had a 40 ft uncovered ventilation shaft only a little ways in
just one example
>Never once did I think these morons actually spent their entire time crawling through narrowing, spiky, twisting, potentially dead end passages with no room to turn around in. How the FRICK does that not trigger alarm bells in your mind?
I'm with you anon. I get the appeal of exploration, pushing boundaries, mapping uncharted paths, etc etc, but the risk from this type of situation is the exact reason why we even have robots
I've been going on a YouTube deep dive into caving videos and this shit is beyond dangerously moronic, man. Nutty Putty doesn't even scratch the surface of the moron iceberg. I've seen professional cavers with 100+ expeditions under their belt still die because they thought climbing a vertical mudslide was possible (Joe Ivy). Then there are morons that show up, try to solo a cave for attention, enter the cave, realize they don't have the proper equipment and starve to death because they simply can't climb back out (Sergei Kozeev). Then there are morons who could literally do everything right and still get fricked over by bad weather (Mossdale Caverns that got flooded causing everyone to drown because there wasn't enough time to get back out on account of a 3 mile crawl). And then when you think you've reached rock bottom single digit IQ points, there's always some morons that manage to lower the bar even more (cave scuba diving). The Plura Cave Disaster in Finland where 5 dudes decided it would be fun to deep dive into a cave that would take FIVE FRICKING HOURS TO COMPLETE had one moron die 3 hours in blocking the path to get out and the group only had 2 hours of O2 left. One dude backtracked on the way they came in and the others tried moving the body for an hour plus.
Cavers are a special breed of moron. NOT ALL OF THEM, the remainder are just straight up suicidal.
I vaguely remember watching the Plura Cave Disaster video myself...I, too am amazed and impressed at the utter DEPTHS of caver moronation.
smart enough to get into, not smart enough to get out
real cool, thanks for the examples! although wiki says that the Finnish guys were actually in Norway and that Kozeev died of hypotermia
>he spent around a week at a −600 metres (−2,000 ft) permanent camp. Then he continued his descent down to technically challenging parts at −1,100 metres (−3,600 ft) where he got stuck due to inadequate equipment and skill
a mad lad
Kozeev died of hypothermia because he couldn't climb out if I recall correctly. The YouTube algo gods also recommended me another video where some morons stumbled upon a brown recluse spider cave. Literally got down crawling through a narrow passage, entered a small cavern, looked up and said he saw thousands of brown recluses staring right back at him. Kek. Mother nature giving humans dozens of reasons why not to go cave exploring and the morons still ignore all that and go.
One of the best posts on PrepHole. I looked up everything that you mentioned. Lots of long writeups online.
>Cavers are a special breed of moron. NOT ALL OF THEM, the remainder are just straight up suicidal.
A couple of our family friends died cave diving when I was a teen and has scared the shit out of me. Two younger military guys (late 20s) decided to go cave diving with an experienced cave diver down in Florida. The two of them got separated somehow from the other guy when they were leaving and started panicking when they realized they were lost. Ran out oxygen before they could find their way out. Depressing part is they were only around 30 yards away from the cave exit too.
I will happily backwoods camp or hunt or rock climb or whatever, but no way I'm ever getting near a cave.
>How the FRICK does that not trigger alarm bells in your mind?
I'm not claustrophobic in the slightest and love exploring, and caves are extremely fascinating, AND I'm likely too bold for my own good, so...
I'm jelly. I get claustrophobic just working under my car on jack stands sometimes. Hell, I'm claustrophobic just reading this thread.
You shouldn't be jealous of people who lack useful survival instincts. Celebrate that yours are intact.
Intelligence doesn't necessarily meant their sense of danger is healthy or that they're not psychopaths
most cave diving is large underground tunnels
Yeah I can’t imagine how anyone would find this enjoyable. Just imagine being stuck in that position barely able to move your arms and a huge fricking centipede or something crawls around in front of you. It’d be over.
This seems pretty cool however.
>This seems pretty cool however.
Until you panic for some reason, starts kicking up silt and your drift conscience into the abyss as your corpse is left floating in a dark tunnel.
I've been caving for 20 years so I'll explain it. Most caves have a mixture of passage sizes and types, with large caverns being somewhat rare. There could be hours of hard caving before reaching a large cavern or borehole passage. The difficulty getting there is what makes it fun and rewarding. If it was easy there would be a bunch of morons spray painting and trashing the place, which happens a lot actually.
>If it was easy there would be a bunch of morons spray painting and trashing the place
>which happens a lot actually
My sides XD
this guy lived after 4 days
Tf is he naked
Story or name please
https://weather.com/news/trending/video/man-stuck-between-rocks-for-4-days-rescued
https://nypost.com/2019/08/08/cambodian-man-freed-after-being-trapped-between-rocks-for-four-days/
Dude was batshit crazy.
>get hopelessly stuck
>starve for days
>your new leaner body is now able to fit through the passage
I bet that first next stretch after getting free felt amazing.
I feel like it probably hurt like frick, I know when I wake up drooling and having fell asleep laying with my arm under my torso my shoulder hurts like a MOTHER until I work it out a bit and that’s only a few hours worth of being stuck like that
Yet another reason why you shouldn't go caving
FRICK THAT. There was also a scary interesting video I saw with thousands of brown recluse spiders as well. SEAL THAT FRICKER UP.
That's not how black widows nest tho?
If John had just waited horizontal there instead of going into that vertical fissure he'd still be alive
He thought he was going towards a place where he could turn around and he just had to keep going. Not really possible to turn around in cracks of that size.
People exploring such a passage for the first time go with people and there is the possibility to pull them out via feet if they get in trouble. John thought he was going via an established route that was known to be a squeeze but would lead to an area where you could turn around, which is why he kept going.
yeah but he didn't have to go into the fissure at the end, at last not according to the diagram
They don't officially know whether or not he crawled into the fissure on purpose or accidentally after sliding down that ramp with his momentum.
Because of the angle. the fact that he couldn't bend his knees/hips, and was purposely resisting all efforts due to discomfort. The ceiling was some shit like 2 feet and it was easier to go in rather than to come out.
>was purposely resisting all efforts
I didn't know this part. Interesting.
You didn't know it because he just made it up. He wasn't resisting his own rescue lmao
He was hallucinating during his first night and was in excruciating pain the next day. It's not that he was resisting on purpose, it's just that he was in pain and had no idea of what was going on especially towards the end
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I mean once it became clear the guy was about to die, why not just tie a fricking tow cable to his ankles and either pull that rope up to a dually and drag his ass and see what happened. Or even drag an electric winch or a hand winch down in that cave. If it mangled him up so be it, I mean he was going to die anyways sounds like. Just a last resort kind of thing. Bones can heal. I mean people survive getting mangled in 100mph car accidents so they could definitely fix some busted knee caps. Maybe even anesthetize him before hand.
Sorry meant for
That is probably what they would have done next if they had more time and if he hadn't died. Their earlier attempts failed due to the cave wall breaking which meant he got lodged further in, which obviously they weren't expecting.
>if he hadn't died
That's the thing; they didn't know for sure he was dead when they abandoned him. They had been unable to feel a pulse in his legs for some time while he was still obviously conscious and responsive. In the end a medic just touched his leg one more time, said "yeah sure, feels dead enough to me" and called it a day.
you mean they checked his pulse and found no heartbeat, the standard method of checking for death
You can have undetectable circulation in a particular limb without actually lacking a pulse or being dead.
I think they should have pulled him out even if he was dead or had dead legs. Why seal the corpse in there? Should have continued the rescue, break his legs if necessary. If it turns out he was dead, then it doesn't matter, he was dead anyway and the family can have a proper burial.
A few rescuers had already been quite seriously injured during the rescue and it was deemed getting the body out was going to be extremely difficult even if they mangled the corpse severely to do so. They questioned what good it would do to take him up in pieces and if someone else might get hurt doing it.
Go back and read the post again, slowly
What is a pulseless limb. Or vasovagal syncope. Bradycardia also leads to a weak pulse. There's also the Lazarus effect. Furthermore, there's a whole range of criteria you gotta do, all of which need to be present to confirm death
>you mentioned no palpable pulse but it has to be like that for >1 min
>no breath or heart sounds for >1 min
>pupils are fixed, dilated and unreactive
>no response to painful stimuli
And it needs to be confirmed by two medical practitioners. They basically left the guy for dead. They didn't know whether or not he was actually dead, all of which is negligence during a real hospital setting.
Good thing they weren’t in a hospital setting then. Those rescuers weren’t obligated to risk their lives in an effort to save the dumbass from the predicament he put himself in.
He took a wrong turn. Not having road signs or navigation apps one hundred feet underground makes it easy to do things like that.
It was a dumb risk to go down there alone in the first place.
Yeah, it’s tragic. Doesn’t really change anything I said, though.
Why does that obligate anyone to risk their own health and safety on his account?
How exactly are you expecting them to do any of those things? Do you even understand the situation? He was trapped upside down in a very narrow passage deep underground.
They had access to his feet and ankles, and even that put the rescuers in a very dangerous position in which they all could have died.
So sick of the captain hindsight wise guys. Next you'll be asking why they didn't resuscitate him with CPR or give him a bath or a three course meal.
Did you bother to read the thread before posting or are you legitimately affected in the head
I read the entire thread yes. Are you gonna answer anything I said, moron?
>yes I read it, just not the comments before the one I replied to
>no I won't take the time to look and see why my questions were moronic
>I'll just call someone else moronic and demand they cater to my refusal to follow the conversation
Well at least you are being honest.
So?
I totally agree with you anon and I probably would have done the same thing but how? You absolutely need a pulley system for a winch which had already broke and you need an anesthesiologist to knock him out properly. Too little and it doesn't work. Too much and he's dead. That's why professionals exist. Know of any anesthesiologists who are also cave explorers? It's probably 1 in 100 million and by the time you get them out there, he's already dead.
When someone is literally about to die you could have a vet give rescue personal a fricking animal tranq to carry down there if the family signed off on it. The guy is about to die kek everything has failed just throw a hail mary. Also just run a fricking cable to a winch up top if you have to. Idk how far the line would have to be but you could carry a winch down to a less confined space of the cave and weigh it down with something if you had to.
Remember I'm not suggesting this as attempt no. 1 or no. 2. This is last resort stuff.
Also the problem with anesthesia drugs is that they suppress respiratory function as well. The guy was literally suffocating to death kinda like George Floyd and that was before the knee came down or the IV would go in, in this case. Usually it's done IV on larger veins like internal jugular, subclavian, or femoral. Can't do that here. Can't even give oral. Can't give IM. It would have a smaller vein in the foot since that's all that is accessible which would be hard to find given his predicament.
And yeah I'm saying you're not wrong but even as a last resort, this shit would not have worked even with another day of prep.
None of that even matters if you read what I wrote.
I guess it's fun to play armchair cave rescue team. You can think up all the thing you could do if you knew everything in advance. Why didn't they use a teleporter!
kek
>"if only it was me stuck in that fissure, i would have wiggled out harder!11"
>"we gotta do something, let's start chiseling away at the rock or blow him out!11"
It's what makes the story so horrifying and frustrating, he got himself stuck in the tightest spot in the world and there was literally nothing that can be done about it.
Lol
If they do something like that and it kills the guy then they'll be blamed for it. Better to just let him die and say "there was nothing we could do"
What a nightmare.
>sorry brah we are just gonna let you die
Would a better/different team of rescuers have been able to get him out?
Is that Saddam?
I never got why they didn't just snatch his ass out whether it broke his legs/ankles or not. I mean once it got dire what is there to lose?
If they had used pulley's with mechanical advantage, would he have gotten out?
I don't think you're supposed to ask that.
>this guy was smart enough to get into MEDICAL SCHOOL
That doesn't matter as much as you think. There are some really dumb motherfrickers with very high paying careers because they can focus and memorize shit to get through school. Doesn't necessarily mean they can reason very well.
Honestly, good for them.
I'm not doing that shit, but if they want to be the vanguard in rediscovering Agartha via its airvents, by all means I'd let them.
I've been watching this caving youtube channel the past few weeks. They do rappels, crawls, swims, all sorts of crazy stuff. Honestly they are a little reckless at times. It wouldn't surprise me if they get killed or seriously hurt one day. I thought it was worth sharing
https://www.youtube.com/@ActionAdventureTwins
Hmmm
thanks for the claustrophobia.
ok but seriously i dont understand why people do this either.
They're morons, as discussed ITT.
Natural Selection.
Some people have genes better adapted to live in crawl spaces.
>guy was smart enough to get into MEDICAL SCHOOL
Which goes to prove that book knowledge doesn't mean you're not a real life idiot. This is a class case of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Don't play stupid games if you don't want stupid prizes coming your way. Darwin wins yet again.
>Extreme sports like mountain climbing, skiing and scuba diving
It's bait, but it's original and funny
I mean, is it bait though? PrepHole has mountaineering and diving threads. I wouldn't call them conventional or average sports.
Cave diving, spelunking, not even once. NOPE NOPE NOPE
FRICK THAT SHIT
like, u could offer me a billion dollars and an adriana lima gf and i would still not crawl into a cave like that.
just reading about it makes me feel panicky and my chest is tight
Me too
billion and the gf? eh id do it
why am i in this fricking thread I HATE UNDERGROUND AAAAAAAAAAAA
john was a selfish nut - frick him especially because there are children smarter than his dead slow rotting carcass - that have been in those same caves and emerged again alive frick him and his corpse
fricking terrorists man
I never understood caving until just recently, when some archeologist or paleontologist or something like that went into a cave in South Africa and just found evidence of like two or three groups before humans having the ability to cook and eat things. He had to lose 60lbs to make it to the part of the cave they were using as an entrance, because these were monkey b***hes at like 4ft tall. Tons of new discoveries, including a hearth and a way to mitigate smoke in their cave system. Super fricking cool.
Imagine how many other caves there are that have evidence like this.
wtf I didn't know "cavemen" was actually literal.
Fricking KEK, PrepHole has the greatest humor on the net
Wait until you find out about Turkey. Massive underground cities, nobody knows why people were living down there, but conspiracy theorists say it was because of an alien attack.
It was moleBlack folk
Dumb ass those caves were built to hide from murading sand Black person Muslims.
And you know what he found when he got in there? Proof that homosexuality and trans identity have always existed, they were celebrated in fact. These noble savages had so much to teach us before the terrible European Neanderthal came and oppressed them into what we now know factually as the patriarchy. Citation needed, but this is clearly the truth.
Your map is inaccurate. All he had to do was turn the frick around and look.
He was looking right at it the whole time?
Not unless he has eyes in the top of his head
He tried to look directly into Agartha without dicyanin goggles. No wonder he died
I came for the memes. ALSO I'M TR- no.. no...
Just put up a sign that says "enter at own risk, no rescue will come for you"
I still don't get why they couldn't just pull him out with a rope, the way he got there. If his legs were getting in the way, they could just break/cut them off.
>inb4 ur moronic
sure, sure. Now explain why they didn't do it or you're no better.
It's been explained already.
e.g. here
You are looking at it with hindsight and asking why they didn't have a fully prepared cave rescue operation ready.
It was a dumb situation, and they did try what you are suggesting (as it's an obvious thing to try) and it failed and resulted in him going further into to the soft cave walls.
And then the guy died because being upside down in a cave is not good for the human body. If they had more time I'm sure they could have done all the things you imagine like getting an even better set up that was more secure to pull him out or widening the passage or giving painkillers or whatever.
oof
Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me Anon, have a good one.
They all regret and lament when they frick up but that dopamine spike is too strong to consider your final moments might be drawn out massive suffering with extreme anxiety, stress and pain.
People always think they are the hero of their story.
We say they are adults and they made their choices but we all devolve into crying infants when death slowly approaches and you're powerless to stop it, assuming you still got your wits somewhat. No one faces a thing like this with dignity and pride.
wise post
A single neighboring county where I live has about 3,500 caves, the most of any in the US.
There are many ancient caves throughout Appalachia as these mountains are old and they are found naturally in mountain forests.
The Cherokee consider them to be powerful places they hold in reverence, it is typical of this type of geography.
Caves you can walk around in are cool and fun to explore. Belly crawling through a hole barely big enough to fit a human for hundreds of feet is just moronic.
Some do it in order to reach uncharted caves, particularly underwater cave diving which is the deadliest.
Many underground regions are still undiscovered, they haven't been named or charted out on a map.
There is a strange overlap between underwater cave divers and actual astronauts, historically.
gtfo tradgay
Selfish prick left his kids with no father. I’ve got no respect for that man.
Shoulda taken them with him like a good father.
>he took a wrong turn while he was driving and got into a wreck, what a piece of shit
Surely, he will never recover from the terrible stain of some edgelord on the internet failing to respect him
No, he won’t recover because he’d dead. Neither will the kids from their trauma caused by their father’s premature, painful and utterly terrifying death he himself caused by fricking up while chasing an adrenaline rush in a pit.
Why are you so steamed over this particular guy, anon? The same thing has happened to 1,000 other families today due to car crashes and heart attacks.
People just get bent out of shape about covers, climbers, divers, etc. Go to the comments of any channel about tragedies in these activities and you'll see it. It's just a lack of perspective. People make it in and out of these situations and live full lives with these hobbies all the time, but they don't hear the success stories so they think it's basically suicide to do them.
He's upset that he will die without doing anything half as interesting, and no one will remember him for his successes or his mistakes. He's less noteworthy than a man who died from being upside-down for too long and it rankles him to no end.
Ah yes anon will get to die peacefully in his 80s instead of dying stuck in a cave as blood slowly rushes into your skull killing you from a heart attack
I’m not steamed over him, I just think he’s a bad and irresponsible father.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with risky activities themselves. However, when you’ve got kids and you’re risking your life to get an adrenaline rush, that’s really selfish. Not much better from just taking off and abandoning your kids, as far as I’m concerned.
Who wouldn’t rather be a good father than be remembered for fricking up in a cave and dying horribly?
This dumb fricker reminds me of Timothy Treadwell.
how so? completely different personality and circumstances of death. Treadwell was delusional and mentally ill whereas Jones was a normal guy who made a really dumb decision. Also Treadwell had an easier death.
Both situations could have been avoided so easy. Whether it was hubris or stupidity doesn't matter. From what little I know about the caver, it was more than a normal dude making a tragic mistake or dumb decision. This was not his first time. And he often challenged others to risk-taking. Not the sort of man to set examples, in my opinion, which isn't worth anything but you asked.
I don't get this either. Claustrophobia aside, what the frick are you supposed to do if you get stuck or the oxygen in the cave starts running out, or both? Aren't you basically at the mercy of the cave and other people? I'm not entirely unconvinced that all cave divers are masochistic bondage enthusiasts.
Could be, but never underestimate stupid.
>the oxygen in the cave starts running out
KEK
nice uninformed comment, but yeah you can asphyxiate in stale air
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/cavers-who-found-missing-adam-26618390
There was one dude who legit suffocated in a cave because he got stuck in a passage so narrow, he he blocked fresh air from getting in. Cause of death was officially asphyxiation.
Question I always had could they have given him some power tools to destroy the rock enough?
It was his hole. It was made for him.
One maybe unwitten cave-dying rule is that anybody can call it off at any time. For no reason at all. If somebody says nope it's ogre.
>not posting the "top treasure" version
>300 divers have died in caves JUST LIKE this one
So caves OTHER than this one? Why should I be scared of a cave no one has died in?
You can always be the first.
but I might not be and I could find a zillion dollars down there
You really think so? I've never been first in anything.
They should have drugged him up and pulled the legs.
Even if the drugs kill him due to his already deteriorated state or his legs get ripped all the way off, it's what's going to happen after 25-30 hours anyway.
Drug him and pull the legs with a jurassic park jeep winch
I'm going cave diving in some cenotes this summer and this thread has me a bit spooked. It's all normie tier well charted places but still. I've only dived in some small wrecks before and it's still pretty nerve wracking, one time I lost sight of my gf and had to surface to find her after a few minutes of searching. Needless to say, it was a very stressful few minutes. This time I'll be going solo to a country where I can only passably speak the language and won't have anyone looking out for me
Depending on where you're going, the cenotes might be easy.
t. went to some cenotes for the first time a couple weeks ago
Dos Ojos is the main one I'm interested in and looks like pure baby mode with a rope and everything. I'm also considering doing my advanced cert there which involves diving in a couple cenotes that are at the discretion of the divemaster. It should be quite easy but anything with an overhang spoops me
why didn't he go feet first instead
Because he wasn't the brightest lad as evidenced by his religious devotion.
>tips fedora
Excellent observation! Indeed, ignorance can turn into believers even the most intelligent of men.
>the midwit atheist actually thinks he's smarter than newton
we're reaching levels of euphoria that shouldn't be possible
That's not what I said, friendo, and with this misapprehension you removed all uncertainty I had about your intelligence.
You called one of the most intelligent men on the planet ignorant because he was religious, despite the fact that he dedicated the majority of his life to studying theology and by any objective measure would have been able to decapitate any of your midwit atheist insights with nothing more than a fart. By calling him ignorant you're trying to elevate your self and your four year degree at the Reddit University of Atheism above one of the greatest minds to have ever existed. So yes, that is precisely what you said.
Humble yourself, kid.
That's not what I said. I actually said that he was one of the most intelligent men ever to have lived. But he was indeed quite ignorant about a great many things, and that ignorance certainly contributed to his religious beliefs. That's quite evident when you take a look at what he had to say about the human thumb, for example. I'm not sure why you're struggling with the simple observation that humans have accumulated a lot of knowledge in the past three hundred years, which Newton obviously didn't have access to. I don't see how acknowledging that is in any way supposed to elevate me above him.
Theology, as in the study of the divine, is mostly just sophistry and baseless conjecture that bears no relation to the real world. His theological ramblings don't count among his numerous and staggering achievements.
This is probably the most reddit post I've ever read on PrepHole. Please, stop. Get help.
I find it funny how tradgays like you are completely oblivious to the fact that you're essentially just the current zeitgeist fedoragays. I suggest you return to X before you embarrass yourself any further.
You're doing it to yourself with all this "quite indeed" homosexual talk. You come across as a dickhead who is desperately trying to come across as smart. You take "he was ingorant about many things" and bloat it to " he was INDEED QUITE ignorant about A GREAT many things". It's not just evident, it's QUITE evident that you should pull your head out of your ass and get your test levels checked. Verification not required
Ah, so my eloquence is the problem. I'm awfully sorry, but I will not amend my way of writing on account of some exasperated manchild.
"eloquence" lmao no the other anon is right you're just a homosexual with a misguided affectation
It certainly isn't misguided as long as it causes malding in tradgays.
Sage
>kid
Just for that I'm going to discard your opinion and agree with whatever the other anon said
>the other anon
Fuggin CLUTCH
Wow! Surprising to see a cave diving thread here. I'm curious, has anyone tried combining the variable permeability model with gradient factors for a more precise decompression strategy? Thinking about how this could improve safety and bottom time in deep, low-oxygen dives by tailoring decompression stops more closely to actual conditions. The goal is to merge the best of both worlds, VPM's bubble dynamics and GF's conservatism, maybe even throw in real-time tissue gas monitoring to dynamically adjust stops based on actual physiological data. Curious if anyone's experimented with this approach.
Yeah these threads are more for dunking on dead morons
This tbhonest. PrepHole isn't about spelunking or going outside. It's just for the memes and shitposting.
Anyone that pretends to be smarter than others because of their religious beliefs is a giant homosexual as far as I'm concerned.
Some people do it in underwater caverns if you thought it couldn’t get more Darwinistic. It’s the call of the void, some people are born with an inclination toward danger. Personally I think it’s people that haven’t experienced much consequence from danger or otherwise physical pain that go toward stuff like this. I’m not talking about extreme sports, those guys have experienced and compartmentalized risk and pain, I’m talking about people into things where the only consequence is sure death.
The rescue was performed by a bunch of average joe yokels who volunteered for SAR and had zero experience spelunking or doing cave rescues. He died as a result.
He died as a result of getting stuck upside down like a dumbass.
WE HAVE A NEW NUTTY PUTTY... or rather prequel since it happened in the 80s but literally same exact scenario. Dude ends up sliding down a 30 degree slope and into a fissure. Some stone breaks off and pins him in there and he can't get pulled out.
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