can we talk about how the EU countries are ever more relying on german industry and less on domestic to produce tanks and ships? i have no doubt the germans can put up some nice hardware but you just weaken your own economy to save money you would spend on a bloated bureaucracy and meaningless paperwork. this will spiral until you have no control over your own mechanized brigades and have to wait for the krauts to deliver them to you.
EU countries are small, anon.
>to produce tanks and ships
subs are technically ships so yes.
I guess you can invest $5-8B to get yourself a prototype of a modern Li-Ion diesel sub. Then what?
Nothing, because prototyping a tech to producing (and then mass producing it) is a world of difference. Plenty of countries struggle with the concept, some very advanced ones, too.
Germany is among the top ranks in regards to conventional warship exports, not just submarines.
oh wtf ty for chart
Go watch Perun or something
Also, the countries that don't buy German ships and subs still buy German diesel engines for their ships and subs.
For the most part at least.
You meant submarines and engines, don't you?
I thought the Dutch made ships? I remember there was a scandal some years ago when the new frigates of the German navy were ordered from the Netherlands.
The entire point of the EU is integration over time.
>The EU is becoming increasingly reliant on EU industry when it comes to defence of the EU
>The entire point of the EU is subversion and forcing German rule over the other member states over time.
>The EU is increasingly stripped of its ability to function without the blessings of Berlin
It's not just the Germans, see the French and Greek FDI deal. Basically bigger nations sell equipment to smaller nations with a limited co-production contract (the carrot) but it's limited to non important parts (the stick)
I know France can still just about throw a hissy fit when they don't get their way, but that capability is fading.
And thats a GOOD thing!
We made a mistake stopping the red army halfway through Germany. The whole country should have been raped and ground into oblivion.
Butthurt polack detected
Either a PiStard or an Orbanbot
N-no European nations, don't band togehter! You're way stronger as singular countries with less area and population than some US states!
PLEASE DON'T STAND TOGETHER, HOW ARE THE USA, CHINA AND RUSSIA GOING TO RAPE YOU OTHERWISE!!
Honestly there's no reason not to just annex the entirety of Europe under direct rule from Berlin.
>EU gives smaller countries higher relative voting power than larger ones
>EU gives even the smallest country veto rights
>Germany makes up one (1) of 27 EU states and 80 out of 447 million people
And somehow idiots think this entire setup somehow makes germany rule the entire rest. How retarded can you be? Is it just populist media in your shithole acting like everything the EU does is germany's doing? Do you have the same amount of resistance to fake news as the average russian?
Note that many of these vehicles and systems are produced ultimately in their countries under licence after an initial german batch.
For example, the spanish made Leopard 2E is a Leopard 2A6 variant with locally produced or alternate systems.
that would normally work during peace time. but since the russian invasion everyone is scrambling like headless chicken trying to patch up their decrepit hardware, and rather than paying billions and have their own gear in 2040+ if they're lucky, they just buy it from either germany, worse korea or burgerland.
You misunderstand. Euro countries like Spain basically bought the tech and produce tanks without buying them from Germany (they still get a cut, of course).
Germany is very influential and usually reserve themselves a veto over re-export of their military tech for several reasons (both moral and self-interest), but you don't know anything about EU politics if you think they always win arguments, or other countries do form alliances to oppose them in some issues.
>Euro countries like Spain basically bought the tech and produce tanks without buying them from Germany
They...don't exactly do that. Many critical parts are still produced in Germany, and exclusively by Germany.
A very simplified equivalent would be: You get to produce stocks and barrels but you have to buy the action from Germany. This cuts some of the cost, sure, but ensures that you keep buying from Germany not just for replacement parts but for the new stuff that you make as well.
Previously most EU countries were reliant on the US industry. Remember for most the Cold War everyone was using M47 and M48 Pattons only until Leopards 1 became available.
PiSshills working hard today I see.
major EU military powers all have their own MBT
all of the others bar maybe Spain and Finland might as well not have tanks
therefore your point is moot
>all of the others bar maybe Spain and Finland might as well not have tanks
Lol. Lmao even.
name one instance of any of the other EU armies using tanks in the last 20-30 years
That is an extremely narrow view. Availability, modernization programs and chassis numbers is what you should be looking at.
and each of them will soon use german E-MBTs like the A8. france is currently butting heads with rheinmetall over caliber or some shit and they're going nowhere, italy doesn't know what to do between its own ariete renovating program or buy the leo license, and uk seems to have given up since brexit and now everything is siphoned into the navy, which is hilarious because their carrier is now getting scrapped.
>their carrier is now getting scrapped.
Cannibalization of PoW to buffer supply is not "scrapping" you clueless brownoid. The Daily Mail should be printed with contact poison to cull morons. It's the equivalent of the burger Daily News.
>like the A8
Good God you're retarded.
Do you want every single country in the EU to reinvent the wheel 27 times?
Do you want them to buy tanks from the opposite side of the world instead?
Awful lot of anti EU/Europe shill threads recently.
A bunch of Euroids who suddenly realised how amazingly weak an defenceless their countries are without America holding their hands - and that really upsets them, so they overcompensate.
No it's just you gay. Go shill on another board.
GOD FOR FUCK'S SAKE NO
CONSOLIDATING EUROPEAN PROCUREMENT IS A GOOD THING
IF COUNTRIES WANT TO LICENSE THE PRODUCTION DOMESTICALLY SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE THEIR OWN FACTORIES THEN FUCKING FINE, BUT FOR FUCK'S SAKE IT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE OBVIOUS WHY EUROPE NEEDS IF NOT A EUROPEAN ARMY THEN AT LEAST ARMIES THAT ALL USE THE SAME GEAR
>Ever being more than a super neat looking parade force
>Or enforcers for the Commission
Make sure you use your tongue when you're kissing the EU boot, it's the only way to be sure you get all of the dogshit out from the grooves in the sole.
Better to kiss the US boot, right?
At the very least the US will leave you alone more often than not.
the thirdie seethes at a unified Europe
101% not what's happening there, if you genuinely want to be a slave to Germany then don't expect us to save your asses this time.
Yes, pour out your tears for me, they taste so good.
Good morning sirs!
Could you please just answer some of my points instead of deflecting?
Go ahead and answer the question, when was the last time an EU country did more than answer the phones for NATO?
>a slave to Germany
lmao, if anything Ukraine has proven that other countries push Germany to move their ass from the couch
>the last time an EU country deployed more than 10 tanks in combat?
Danes in Afghanistan, for example
>the last time an EU country trained en mass with armor?
Every year in several countries, or do you think national or NATO exercises are dog and pony shows like in third world countries? lol
>Asks for more than 10 in combat
>Danes in Astan
I said more than 10, clearly you aren't qualified to answer my question.
Show me a picture of more than 10 training
I said country not a gathering of NATO countries
Do you want to try again?
Danes deployed 20+ Leo 2s in Afghanistan, you disingenous cunt.
>Show me a picture of more than 10 training
You though it was impossible because normally 10 tanks in the same exact place during maneouvers is retarded, but unfortunatelly for you here's a platoon of french Leclerc tanks
>I said country not a gathering of NATO countries
See above, and you're again a disingenous cunt because EU countries forces train to work together all the time under NATO or bilateral agreements.
You are retarded if you think the countries in blue do not get anything in return. The EU is not a charity.
>Danes deployed 20+ Leo 2s in Afghanistan
Source that right now, oh wait you can't.
>To address the Taliban threat that existed within the territory of the Battle Group, the Danish parliament approved a request from the Danish Defense Command to send a Leopard tank platoon to Helmand. The Danish parliament approved the deployment of three tanks in October, and the tanks became operational in Helmand in November 2007.
They deplpyed 3 (THREE) Leo's
>you disingenous cunt.
That back fired didn't it you dumb fuck, you just blatantly lied about something that I easily disproved.
>See above bla bla
Yeh that didn't go well for you, this won't either.
Do you understand what I'm saying to you? See my op
see were i said show me "AN ( singular) trained en mass with armor" idiot, it doesn't say with other countries does it you stupid cunt.
>I thought it was impossible
Kek no I didn't not for competent countries that train with battlegroups regularly like the US UK S Korea etc etc
So again, can you provide a battle group picture of massed armor OR an example of AN EU nation deploying more than 10 tanks? UK doesn't count because they have left now.
>Asks for picture of more than 10 tanks in one place
>Receives picture of 11 French tanks
Fuck off back to scamming old ladies by pretending to be Microsoft, Ranjeesh.
>20+ Danish Leopards!
>Actually it was 3
Yeah, EU is a gay entity that's never used more than 10 tanks in combat. You lost Tomazc
>Yeah, EU is a gay entity that's never needed more than 3 tanks in combat.
The rest of the world will never learn just how far behind they are. You'll forever just be an afterthought in the history of civilization
>muh prooofs of random made up numbers of tanks as if those have any validity in military readiness and capability/force projection
>ignoring the french tanks pic
>joint exercises do not count because reasons
>doesn't know that EU armies play as OPFOR against each other all the time to save costs.
Yeah, you're a disingenous cunt that knows nothing about the EU. Probably a butthurt serb or brexiteer if you aren't a paid thirdie shill. Probably the later since you seem to believe that tanks are supposed to be spammed in huge formations like soviet retards instead of modern combined arms.
>>Or enforcers for the Commission
As opposed to each individual armies enforcing their nation’s rules?
>Euroid doesn't understand why he wouldn't want to be oppressed
Well colour me surprised.
the military being used as enforcers of any capacity only happens in your brownoid countries
You mean your brownoid countries, Achmed?
go ahead and show me an example then, rasheed
See picrel, if you nation is in the red (which it is) then you are a turdie and should stop being a leech
nice goalposts, rashSNEED
do you germans still live in a delusion that the EU is a charity? that the EU is a red cross, that just gives off cash to the poor third world member states?
these "beneficiaries" would get kicked out of the EU in 15 seconds the moment they would stop giving back at least twice as much money to the germans.
this is a chart that takes into account the money the good willed charity contributors get by being a "charity".
>but why? why is it like that? how come EU is sucking out more, than giving out?
french, german etc companies dont pay income tax in member states.
as in, you build an intermarche in slovakia - slovakians spent slovakian money in the german shop on german products - a shop which pays 0 (ZERO) income tax back to slovakia.
slovakian money sucked out in the billions, every day, going to a foreign country, taxed ZERO.
and because french/germans dont have to pay these taxes - the products in these shops are cheaper, compared to slovakian counterparts.
>slovakian shops die, foreign markets are fucking everywhere like a plague
please educate yourself on how the EU functions.
its a gigantic scam and most of the population believes it.
t. an accountant in real life.
This is disinggenous. It ignores things like the GDP per capita and how those countries become more developed thanks to gibs.
There's no way to argue that countries become poorer or their citizens worse after joining the EU. It's not a charity but also not a scam. Countries haggle about everything and have their own voice and votes.
Slovakia of all countries should know this.
member states stopped caring about EU funding pretty much already a decade ago.
if i remember correctly, in 2022 EU loans (gibs dont exist) accounted for barely 0,5% of the entire Polish GDP, for example.
Of course we are getting money from our investment, but we are also building their infrastructure and industry.
Countries like Poland went from dirt poor post communist shitholes that rapidly growing economies that will be on equal footing with us in a few decades.
The EU is not a zero sum game.
t. German Übermensch, draggin the eternal Pole into the light of civilization
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The minute you stop hold there hand it will collapse.
Na. Can't speak for the other east euros, but Poles are alright. They needed a little push after the Russians fucked their country for half a century, but they can walk on their own.
You have to pay 1.3 trillion in reparations to the people you brutalized you subhuman.
And still richer than you, brownoid
1.3 trillion are just a drop in the bucket in the long run.
Advancing every field of science and enabling modern life is worth every cent. I couldn't even imagine life without practicaly free, clear tap water, universal healthcare and being able to go to pretty much any place worth visiting on earth without having to bother with bureaucracy
For all their faults, Germany is the country that has done the most in the world to atone for their past crimes. Whining in fucking 2023 about WW2 reparations is retarded and disingenous bullshit.
As if Germany wasn't ruined and occuppied too after the war.
...Do not exist. EU politicians are elected MPs directly by the citizens of each country, or appointed by the ruling governments of each country.
All countries have their issues and haggling about them is part of process of being an EU member. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Italy or Greece being burdened with the immigration issue is bullshit, sure. But don't forget how much your country and companies benefit also from the EU.
Local politicians use the EU as a escapegoat all the time for their own failures or deliberate decisions (as we saw with the UK)
It's called foreign investment retard, if you want to relive the good old days of starvation under communism you're free to leave the EU and ban foreign investment so evil capitalist westerners can't make your country wealthy.
>the EU free market is totally oppressing us right fellow europeans
Thinly veiled ruse to get the NATO (Anglo Saxons) out and get cozy with another Russkie tsar or Chinese emperor.
this board has some weirdos regularly trying to push people into being against European Integration, and its slightly funnier every single time
Can we talk about the last time an EU country deployed more than 10 tanks in combat?
Can we talk about the last time an EU country trained en mass with armor?
Your all a pathetic joke.
As is your English.
>The EU armed forces aren't real, they can't hurt you
>EU biggest countries totally missed the invasion in Ukraine and didn't think it would happen
Oh no a bloc of incompetence only acting when the US and UK force them too, kek
The EU lacks unified political will, but not the means to enforce it on everyone else in the planet save a few countries like the US or China.
This is exactly why Russia has tried to sabotage it and stabbed us in the back. That's also why almost all euro sceptic parties in europe have been paid directly or indirectly by Russia or traitors like Orban.
the fact that bruxelles bosses everyone around remains. the fact that the widespread discontent within the union about the union had been exploited by russian is another topic entirely.
i mean, look for example my country, italy. we're bleeding millions every year because the po valley isn't conformant to the pollution standards set by the EU, who gives a fuck if it is the most densely populated and industrialized region of europe with mountains on 3 sides out of 4.
and what about the new norm about energy classes of the houses? how the fuck is italy supposed to turn every single house to the newest class by 2030?? don't they know most of our towns are over 600 old?
not to mention that we're completely ALONE in dealing with migrants. now tell me, how would this make you feel, to be the bitch of europe and be unable to do anything about it? you can say what you want but i ain't gonna flap a euro flag anytime soon, no sir.