Can we just buy these and call it a day? I'm sure the germans will give us a good discount with their economy tanking and they relying on us.
Can we just buy these and call it a day?
Can we just buy these and call it a day? I'm sure the germans will give us a good discount with their economy tanking and they relying on us.
>we
I don't think Germany is going to sell that stuff to /k/ unless one of us has some pretty good connections
I know someone, who knows the head of the Rheinmetall Legal team
why not the Lynx? It doesn't have a remote turret but it's probably cheaper and seems more versatile
Or we wait what happens with this german thingy . the bradleys can do a few more years.
That's a tech demonstrator, not a development for actual use.
Yeah i know that's why i said lets see where they're heading with this. The german military industry is working closely together so we could see an actual prototype earlier than we think. Especially rheinmetall has a few new impressive electric powered products.
>It doesn't have a remote turret
their OMFV entry will
With MPF decided on a Griffin based vehicle, OMFV is a foregone conclusion
Remember how Big Army wanted to continue the competition with only the Griffin 2 when the other competitors couldn't get their prototypes stateside due to shipping issues?
Yeah, no wonder you skip the part where the British military is on the verge of driving out Ajax from the service at all due to the defects.
Still a mystery how they just didn't go for the cv90, that company is part of the BAE group
CV90 is just deprecated at this point. IF the Brad's getting replaced it'll be the Puma or Lynx and most likely the latter.
>Puma or Lynx
what even is the fricking difference?
>Puma
Top-of-the-line IFV for German internal use, expensive, remote turret.
>Lynx
Cheaper export version, uses only Rheinmetall components, manned turret.
this is probably the reason why ASCOD is having "problems" in UK military
I woudn't surprised BAE paid bunch of people to keep churning out articles how Ajax is piece of shit and trying to convince MPs that replacing it it could make 15 new jobs in Midburchesteshitechester voting district
Brits forgot how to make engines and gearboxes that aren't for racing.
Every Ascod variation other than the Ajax seems to be doing fine, no idea why the Bongs have the issues noone else has
40mm
its worse than ascod and cv 90 though
What are the evaluation criteria there?
worse in terms of price, yes.
That played a big role in the scoring, what is absolute understandable.
Technically its top notch.
>The five main evaluation points were interoperability, mobility, firepower, mine resistance and ballistic resistance
>Lynx
>Hungary
Huh?
Hungary has opted for the Lynx and will be producing the bulk of their vehicles locally, the Slovakian ones would have all or mostly been built there
Yeah but why didn’t Rheinmetall in Germany offer it?
They did, the company in Hungary is a Rheinmetall plant
>On 10 September 2020 Rheinmetall and the Government of Hungary held a joint press conference in Budapest and among the details of the new joint manufacturing project they announced that a new factory, along with an almost three square kilometer-sized full-service vehicle test track called ZALA Zone, would be built near Zalaegerszeg, Hungary.
It isn't at all, inform yourself why slovakia picked them.
not saying the Lynx is worse or better but didn't Slovakia decide against it? Afaik right now the only secure customer is Hungary
Look at why points were reduced, it has nothing to do with the vehicle itself nor even the financial issues.
It scored the worst in mine protection and firing tho.
The lynx is heavily modular, there is a version for every need. Again, it's new look what they tested...their loss.
Not that guy you're arguing with but if you're going to throw the score from their evaluation around at least take the time to read it:
In the technical part, the point evaluation and ranking was as follows:
1. Sweden, CV90 (both variants), 292 points: "Despite the fact that it did not reach some required parameters (cannon elevation, overcoming a vertical trench) with its construction, technical parameters, as well as other options offered by the manufacturer, it comes closest to the requirements of the OS SR." write the authors of the study.
2. Hungary, LYNX KF41, 257 points: "The shortcoming is the overall dimensions, silhouette of the vehicle and the fact that the vehicle has not yet been introduced even in the country of origin."
3. Spain, ASCOD, 279 points: "The said shift was implemented on the basis of information provided by the manufacturer, in connection with unwanted vibrations of the vehicle. The problems are connected with the current design development of the vehicle, specifically with the resonance of the vehicle structure when driving on a hard surface." - this is a problem identified so far with related AJAX vehicles purchased by the British Army. It has not yet been highlighted in ASCOD vehicles.
4. Poland, BORSUK, 30 points: "The placement was enriched by the fact that the manufacturer did not fulfill the RfGP to the extent required by OS SR."
The overall ranking in this section was determined by the evaluation for the subgroup for security and protection of information and communication and information systems:
1. Sweden, CV90, total 375 points
2. Spain, ASCOD, total 362 points
3. Hungary, LYNX, total 337 points
4. Poland, BORSUK, total 30 points.
>It doesn't have a remote turret
There's literally a remote turret in your picture.
>buying this overweight shitheap
Go home Rheinmetall salesman, you're drunk
Don't make me horny i'd love working at Rheinmetall
>'''We'''
I'm opting for the Oshkosh-Hanwha offer, because frick the kraut israelites.
US already has god like IFVs. Replacing the Bradley just isn’t worth it. Add a triangle piece a sheet metal to the barrel and call it a day
Honestly, we could just stick some new lightweight side armor on the Bradley, upgun it to the 35/50 Bushmaster gun and call it a day. Throw on APS and new optics if it's really needed. They were already experimenting with Bradleys armed with the 35mm Bushmaster and 40mm Bofors back in the late 80s.
Bradley is already heavily strained platform with overloaded chassis. I dunno what happened upgrading the suspension with AMPV components, but just giving it even more armor and bigger gun would kill its off road mobility that wasn't particularly good for IFV to begin with. AMPV is basically turretless bradley with beefed up suspension used as ambulance, command post and supply vehicle. Its supposed to replace remaining M113's and M577's. For once US Army made something somewhat future proof and gave it suspension that actually has growth potential.
>IFV in the year 2022
>no ATGM
Anyway, who is "we"?
America is the default. Deal with it
I asked because the Puma wouldn't be a good OMFV, if it was then it would have been offered instead of the Lynx
Lynx and puma aren’t even worthy of discussion. Give it up rheinmengay
You are right they aren't but that wasn't the question being asked.
>with their economy tanking
WTF are you talking about? Especially their military economy is looking at the best times since the end of the Cold War. The Bundeswehr is about to procure like crazy and tons of other (euro-) countries will buy tons of new shit too, especially those who have given lots of stuff to the Ukies and are now in need for replacements.
>especially those who have given lots of stuff to the Ukies and are now in need for replacements
Yeah, flat chance. Poland will not start buying German stuff now after years of problems. The same goes for other countries especially after Germany blocked export of equipment to Ukraine
Poland doesn't actually matter in the grand picture and your uninformed takes on what has been happening over the last 6 months don't constitute reality.
>tons of other (euro-) countries will buy tons of new shit too,
Delusional
>with their economy tanking and they relying on us
I don't know if you guys know it... but the UK is far from being Germany's biggest trading partner.
https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Economy/Foreign-Trade/Tables/order-rank-germany-trading-partners.pdf?__blob=publicationFile#page=2
Who is "we"?
Germnoey will have problems producing it. Also you don't want to deal with license, especially from Germany
Lynx would be the only reasonable choice to make for america. And if the US chooses the Lynx, many will follow.
btw. any news about the land 400?
Last news I read was the reduction of initial procurement from 450 vehicles to 350
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-06/multi-billion-dollar-army-vehicle-project-facing-cutbacks/100968910
Nothing about a final decision between Lynx and Redback yet
>Can we just buy a vehicle that has had a complete shitshow of a development process, is 10 years behind schedule and won't be finished until the end of this decade?
No.
Did you actually confuse the Puma with the Ajax? lmao
why no Combat Vehicle 90 ?
Dated, not future-proof.
>future-proof
whats the definition of future-proof?
New enough to be modified for the next 30-40 years if needed without having to rework major parts of a system. At least that's my definition.
Growth potential, a platform that has been modernized repeatedly over the years tends to reach the limits of what can be upgraded sooner rather than later
Weight, space, digital integration, power requirements etc.
Literally one of the reasons slovakia decided against the Lynx was the enormous size of it.
And who do you think is gonna have to replace their IFV first when their model hits the limit of how far it can be upgraded, Slovakia or Hungary?
Look I'm sure Slovakia is getting a good deal on their CV90, if you're looking for a good, proven solution today and care less about how much you can upgrade your platform
Why are so convinced that the CV90 cant be updated? How come so few countries have bought the lynx then?
CV90 was designed in the 80s
Lynx was designed in 2015
You should be telling that to the dutch then.
>https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/netherlands-awards-contract-to-upgrade-cv9035nl-fleet
The Cv90 offered today is not the same as the 80's design, anon. Different sizes, different weapons, digital vs analouge, different max weights, etc etc.
The design of the coming MkIV isnt even fully finalized
I'm not arguing pro Lynx, I'm arguing for the fact that all vehicle platforms have a limited life span and growth potential
As for your questions, see
The Lynx is so far unproven and unlikely to be fielded in Germany any time soon due to the Puma, and if you ask me the Australian competition is the one that will make or break that vehicle's success
>limited life span and growth potential
Apperantly the slovaks thinks different. And it's almost like armed forces prefer combat proven vehicles instead of risky private ventures.
And the Australians thought different, if we're gonna make this about how government A decides one way and Government B another way we'll never hear the end of it
We can end it right here since the CV90 has more operators than any german IFV ever had.
>6 (CV90) vs 4 (Marder)
Impressive but both the US and the Soviets shit all over those numbers
How can a newly designed IFV be battle proven without a war going on.... you people and your arguments. You would've said the same thing when the swedish IFV first appeard in the 80's or rather for every new weapon system when compared to 40 year old upgraded stuff.
Maybe because the security situation in Europe is a bit more hairy now then when the main objective was to police afghanistan.
Argument stands, why don't we start building WW2 Panthers again instead of KF51s, the originals are battle proven and we know their flaws which can be fixed with an upgrade.
Why doesnt the existing leopard users replace them with KF51s instead of modernizing them?
The successor of the Leopard is the MGCS. Leo still has a full upgrade to go through before retirement.
The KF51 imo is aimed at second-tier countries wanting to modernise their tank fleet with a proper western tank, especially if they already have Rheinmetall stuff due to parts commonality.
Stop being a fricking moron.
Im Czech and i do believe that we should get CV90 to replace the ancient BVPs but he's correct - CV90 will continue to be an effective platform for the next two or three decades, but its still going to approach the end of its lifespan sooner than the more modern systems designed to be more easily upgraded in the future will.
>prefer combat proven vehicles
Bong detected.
It's their last refuge in every argument. I enjoy that fact a lot.
>Potential order 400
>Australian competition is the one that will make or break that vehicle's success
Lmao no. Australia is about as relevant as Canada and no one gives a frick what they choose.
Best guess is that it's a bit too small for US preferences. Designed for smaller forest paths and small silhouette, typically American designs want to pack as much firepower and protection in the vehicle as possible and it probably can't hold enough atgms and armor upgrades as a larger one and we really don't give a frick about vehicles being absolutely huge. The fact the mat-v is taller than a stryker still kind of blows my mind.
wasn't one of the main reasons the Brits didn't go with the CV90 the badly run and cancelled Project Nimrod(not the Weather Research program) by BAE