France alone has the industry. The problem is they lack the political will and their work force is both unmotivated and unqualified (same as Germany, Spain and Italy) so they cannot ramp up fast if they suddenly get the political will.
Europe lacks civilian industry, and the reason for this is that it is too expensive, and it is too expensive because of all the labour "protection" laws; it is nice to say "I will offer X months paid vacation" etc etc but if the rest of the world offers a cheaper product, it will be quite difficult to find many customers
There was a report delivered to the French senate that if the AASM was to be manufactured on the same scale as JDAMs the price difference would be negligible.
It's expensive because they're not making enough of them
>we need the weapons of the future! >make it happen >done >now let's mass produ... >nope >what? >we got the tech, not like we'll need it >but what if... >cut it, I need my peace dividend
Anon, it just recently happened, a few weeks ago, with the Sea Venom / Anti Navire Léger. Some people in France want to cancel the order. >https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/defense/la-france-va-t-elle-abandonner-le-missile-antinavire-aeroporte-anl >Jointly developed with the UK, the airborne light anti-ship missile (ANL), called Sea Venom in the UK, may never see the light of day in the French navy >The fruit of the Franco-British Lancaster House military cooperation agreement, signed in 2010, the program for the new light anti-ship missile (ANL/Sea Venom) is on the rocks in France. The French Ministry of the Armed Forces has apparently given up on integrating this weapon on the Guépard Marine helicopter (naval version of the H160M), the platform chosen to implement the ANL in the French fleet. >The integration contract, followed by the order for the first missiles, should have been included in the new military programming law (LPM) covering the period 2024-2030 >However, according to various sources, these contracts will not see the light of day during the course of the LPM, and these sources are now pessimistic about the success of the program on this side of the Channel. Unless the program is significantly delayed, or integration is carried out on another platform, in this case the Caïman Marine, the French version of the NH90 NFH, which already uses MU90 torpedoes for anti-submarine missions. However, this option does not appear to be on the cards at present.
Potentially hundreds of millions wasted on the french side if this decision is taken.
The Brits have been funding Sea Venom for years with nothing but idle promises from France that they'll invest the money back in to it at a later date.
France has spent frick all on it
I don't believe it. Talk is cheap. Nothing made in France has ended up being as cheap at the same quality as things made in countries they claim to be able to match at a point on the quality/scale/price triangle like America, Germany or Japan. Every single time if they get pushed on it then at least one of those things gives, usually two. In the case of J'DAM I don't think price would ever get there, so they'd do a redesigned version that's easier to make, but it wouldn't work properly or be super user unfriendly or something. This shit happens every time, because the French really believe that they're too good for process engineering to apply to them. They really believe that the universe owes them the ability to accrue scale efficiencies with none of the challenges of scaling, no need to iterate or learn the lessons from trying it multiple times or avoiding scale disefficiencies. God, I've come to hate the French so goddamned much from having to deal with their research, manufacturing and defence sectors.
It has rocket booster that gives your standard mk80 series bomb 70km+ stand off range if fired from altitude over free fall alternatives, at low altitude it gives it some stand off distance.
Frankly I don't see why anyone is surprised. Whole categories of guided missiles are built with surface control at the front and doing it this way make it easier to convert a dumb bomb without touching the bomb's main body.
It’s literally just that, a frog JDAM, and with all western equipment sent to Ukraine, it’s sent in pathetically small numbers that won’t move the needle in any direction.
There are currently three variants commercially available of the AASM/Hammer anon, the AASM 250, 500, and 1000. Picrel is the Rafale's current loadout with three of the 1000kg variant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-35 > It was the answer to western missiles like the US Harpoon. Informally, it was also known as 'Harpoonski', as it was broadly comparable, especially in appearance, with the American missile.
So now the JDAM knockoff is known as JDAMski.
supposedly they've been made compatible with ukraine's current fleet of MiGs and Sukhois
https://twitter.com/Getty776/status/1747903657285394482
https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-s-air-force-comments-on-french-aasm-1705674846.html
This is the JDAM, the Montecristos. [picking up a JDAM out of the box] This is a kinetic-kill, side-winder vehicle with a secondary cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine RDX burst. It's capable of busting a bunker under the bunker you just busted. If it were any smarter, it'd write a book, a book that would make Ulysses look like it was written in crayon. It would read it to you. This is my Eiffel Tower. This is my Rachmaninoff's Third. My Pietà . It's completely elegant, it's bafflingly beautiful, and it's capable of reducing the population of any standing structure to zero. I call it "The Ex-Wife." [Rhodes holds his chin as if in thought] This is the best I've got. [puts missile back in box] Are we gonna do this? Give me something here. You're like a sphinx. I can't read you.
It's more of a short term burn to enable a much longer glide phase looking at the marketing stuff instead of a longer, controllable burn from a missile, but yea, you're not wrong either. I think they are calling it a bomb instead of a missile because of the warhead weight it's carrying compared to anything short of a cruise missile.
I'm pretty certain that main user of weapon system is responsible for development, budgeting and other shit even in France. Aircraft weaponry is more of air force thing than navy at large thing. Unless particular weapon is something that will be exclusively used by naval aviation. That is how bureaucracy works. Also, as if random advertising guy in marketing department of MBDA gives a frick what kind of stock image of Rafale they pic for their marketing material.
What did you expect from the creator of the CAESAR?
French love acronym that spell out the system
>CA E S AR >CAmion Équipé d'un Système d'ARtillerie
Literally "Truck equipped with an artillery system"
>AMX10-RC
AMX stand for: Atelier de issy-les-MoulinauX
(place it was built at, we skip the issy yes)
RC = Roue Canon
(wheel + canon)
If you see >NG >Nouvelle Generation
New Generation
Some other french military acronym worth mentioning >CaRaPACE >Camion Ravitailleur Pétrolier de l’Avant à Capacité Étendue
carapace = animal shell
literally "extended range front line refueling truck"
>SOUVIM >système d’ouverture d’itinéraire miné
Literally "system to clear a road with land mine"
>FAMAS >Fusil D'Assaut De La Manufacture d'Armes De Saint-Etienne
Literally "rifle of weapon factory X"
>PA-MAS >Pistolet Automatique de la Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne
Same for pistol
>FÉLIN >Fantassin à Équipement et Liaisons Intégrés
Dérived from Felinae (cat)
Integrated Infantryman Equipment and Communications
>nEUROn drone prototype
wordplay on neuron + Europe
>MAGIC >Missile Auto-Guidé Interception et Combat
that's where it get magical
>MICA >Missile d’Interception, de Combat et d’Auto-défense
>CaRaPACE >Camion Ravitailleur Pétrolier de l’Avant à Capacité Étendue >carapace = animal shell >literally "extended range front line refueling truck"
got any pics?
I found this interesting as I didn't know that "carapace" is the same in French as it is in English (might well be a loanword)
>Literally "rifle of weapon factory X"
lmao
or as Simon Murray put it: "the French name their small arms like they name their wines"
this was in the era of the MAT-49
Or rather, not exactly mid flight. The rocket booster kicks in some time after separation. Many Rafale pilots consider this weapon potentially dangerous in certain scenarios since if dropped in a perfectly flat straight flight it can pass behind the jet due to drag after the Rafale accelerates slightly post release, then the AASM can suddenly pitch up and light up its booster propelling it upward at which point it can go over the jet. This only happens during certain engagement scenarios involving strange fly paths though.
As a result, one of the best ways Rafale pilots have to deliver the 6 AASM 250 the jet can carry on individual pre-selected targets, is to do so during a 5.5 G break to make sure the weapons and the jet adopt different trajectories.
It's a Mk82/Mk84 bomb with a guidance kit, so uses the same STANAG 3726 Bail lugs as any other bomb in NATO, and drops from a BRU.
Rail-launched weapons have different methods of suspension.
It explodes
Does it explode the right things though?
It's good but still too expensive
If France makes a million of them will they still be expensive.
No. But the problem is they wont. Us euros lack industry
France alone has the industry. The problem is they lack the political will and their work force is both unmotivated and unqualified (same as Germany, Spain and Italy) so they cannot ramp up fast if they suddenly get the political will.
War isn't an industry you wanna invest too hard in. Russia and North Korea know this and China too
Europe lacks civilian industry, and the reason for this is that it is too expensive, and it is too expensive because of all the labour "protection" laws; it is nice to say "I will offer X months paid vacation" etc etc but if the rest of the world offers a cheaper product, it will be quite difficult to find many customers
There was a report delivered to the French senate that if the AASM was to be manufactured on the same scale as JDAMs the price difference would be negligible.
It's expensive because they're not making enough of them
we know
that's the case for most European weapons
economies of scale is a hell of a thing
Typical
>we need the weapons of the future!
>make it happen
>done
>now let's mass produ...
>nope
>what?
>we got the tech, not like we'll need it
>but what if...
>cut it, I need my peace dividend
>Over 4000 planned for the first batch
>1700 actually ordered in that first batch
>It fricks up the pricing of the whole procurement strategy
Yeah
>It fricks up the pricing of the whole procurement strategy
Tale as old as time, see the Zum and its special snowflake gun ammo.
Imagine spending the money on r&d, testing and setting up a fricking factory and then cheaping out on the order.
Anon, it just recently happened, a few weeks ago, with the Sea Venom / Anti Navire Léger. Some people in France want to cancel the order.
>https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/defense/la-france-va-t-elle-abandonner-le-missile-antinavire-aeroporte-anl
>Jointly developed with the UK, the airborne light anti-ship missile (ANL), called Sea Venom in the UK, may never see the light of day in the French navy
>The fruit of the Franco-British Lancaster House military cooperation agreement, signed in 2010, the program for the new light anti-ship missile (ANL/Sea Venom) is on the rocks in France. The French Ministry of the Armed Forces has apparently given up on integrating this weapon on the Guépard Marine helicopter (naval version of the H160M), the platform chosen to implement the ANL in the French fleet.
>The integration contract, followed by the order for the first missiles, should have been included in the new military programming law (LPM) covering the period 2024-2030
>However, according to various sources, these contracts will not see the light of day during the course of the LPM, and these sources are now pessimistic about the success of the program on this side of the Channel. Unless the program is significantly delayed, or integration is carried out on another platform, in this case the Caïman Marine, the French version of the NH90 NFH, which already uses MU90 torpedoes for anti-submarine missions. However, this option does not appear to be on the cards at present.
Potentially hundreds of millions wasted on the french side if this decision is taken.
The Brits have been funding Sea Venom for years with nothing but idle promises from France that they'll invest the money back in to it at a later date.
France has spent frick all on it
I don't believe it. Talk is cheap. Nothing made in France has ended up being as cheap at the same quality as things made in countries they claim to be able to match at a point on the quality/scale/price triangle like America, Germany or Japan. Every single time if they get pushed on it then at least one of those things gives, usually two. In the case of J'DAM I don't think price would ever get there, so they'd do a redesigned version that's easier to make, but it wouldn't work properly or be super user unfriendly or something. This shit happens every time, because the French really believe that they're too good for process engineering to apply to them. They really believe that the universe owes them the ability to accrue scale efficiencies with none of the challenges of scaling, no need to iterate or learn the lessons from trying it multiple times or avoiding scale disefficiencies. God, I've come to hate the French so goddamned much from having to deal with their research, manufacturing and defence sectors.
>God, I've come to hate the French so goddamned much
oh no
anyway
Fifty ten hull
they forgot to put wings on it
If it goes fast enough you don't need wings for it to fly.
>frog guided bomb
>it has canards
You can't make this shit up.
Probably smells like orange as well
It has rocket booster that gives your standard mk80 series bomb 70km+ stand off range if fired from altitude over free fall alternatives, at low altitude it gives it some stand off distance.
You mean garlic?
Lol, I'm sure this one flew over many people's head.
Explain
Nta but probably that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_%C3%A0_l%27orange
what the frick does that even mean
what the frick are you saying you moronic babbling Black person
THE FRENCH SINCE THEY INVENTED FLIGHT HAVE PUT THE CONTROL SURFACES IN THE FRONT
>THE FRENCH SINCE THEY INVENTED FLIGHT HAVE PUT THE CONTROL SURFACES IN THE FRONT
The Rafale's canard really triggered you didn't they?
>>JDAM = …
HAMMER (Highly Agile Modular Munition Extended Range)
or
AASM (Armement Air-Sol Modulaire)
Frankly I don't see why anyone is surprised. Whole categories of guided missiles are built with surface control at the front and doing it this way make it easier to convert a dumb bomb without touching the bomb's main body.
yes it was the rafalee
>Clément Ader laughs in "Éole"
I give you point for choosing something quite historic.
Still a silly exaggeration as French barely did such design.
It looks cooler than any JDAM and will therefore deliver more psychological damage to the enemy
If I can see the JDAM coming, it's a failure of a JDAM
It means it's going slow enough I can shoot it out the sky
If it has a rocket engine, then it isn't really that comparable to a jdam, is it?
It’s literally just that, a frog JDAM, and with all western equipment sent to Ukraine, it’s sent in pathetically small numbers that won’t move the needle in any direction.
50 per month doesn't sound so bad. It's enough for several missions and they can rely on it given it will be consistent.
It's not like they have a lot aircraft to toss them with.
Though the Ukie government is saying that the F-16 training and deliveries are on schedule.
50 precision munitions per month is pretty respectable, relatively speaking. Especially since some of them can be 550kg.
There are currently three variants commercially available of the AASM/Hammer anon, the AASM 250, 500, and 1000. Picrel is the Rafale's current loadout with three of the 1000kg variant.
>America: JDAM
>Russia: JDAMski
>France ?
Name it.
JeDamme
10/10
>Jeuxdamnes
>pronounced: "da"
>VanDam
That's the Belgian JDAM: the JCVDAM. It can split.
Nee nee, dat is de Nederlandse, de belgen mogen sterven
J'DAM
>le JDAM
J'damné
La Fromage
Je damne
>JDAM
Munitions d'attaque directe conjointe
or shortend to mua-dic
>AI slop
rancid
>mua-dic
its name is a killing word
>Royale with cheese
Je suis Direct Attack Munition
Jean Claude Van Damn
You're a gentleman and a scholar, sir.
>JDAMski even though 'ski' is a polish last name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-35
> It was the answer to western missiles like the US Harpoon. Informally, it was also known as 'Harpoonski', as it was broadly comparable, especially in appearance, with the American missile.
So now the JDAM knockoff is known as JDAMski.
Is the French version a Harpooner?
Harponneux
'ski' is a generic slavic suffix, not just Polish.
>NATO = OTAN
>EU = UE
>JDAM = …
But I'm le tired.
Then take a rest
THEN FIRE THE MISSILEUXs
MADJ: Munition d'attaque directe jointe
Le unite directe attackide weponhonhonhon
JDAMette
rocket boosted IR/LASER/GPS/INS guided bomb with a range of up to 60km
frick's sake, just drive it to somewhere within the vicinity of the target and let it go
Will they Black person-rig it to their soviet shit boxes or will the F-16s carry them?
supposedly they've been made compatible with ukraine's current fleet of MiGs and Sukhois
https://twitter.com/Getty776/status/1747903657285394482
https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-s-air-force-comments-on-french-aasm-1705674846.html
This is the JDAM, the Montecristos. [picking up a JDAM out of the box] This is a kinetic-kill, side-winder vehicle with a secondary cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine RDX burst. It's capable of busting a bunker under the bunker you just busted. If it were any smarter, it'd write a book, a book that would make Ulysses look like it was written in crayon. It would read it to you. This is my Eiffel Tower. This is my Rachmaninoff's Third. My Pietà . It's completely elegant, it's bafflingly beautiful, and it's capable of reducing the population of any standing structure to zero. I call it "The Ex-Wife." [Rhodes holds his chin as if in thought] This is the best I've got. [puts missile back in box] Are we gonna do this? Give me something here. You're like a sphinx. I can't read you.
>rocket assisted bomb
... isn't that just a missile? Am I missing something really obvious here?
JDAM with extra velocity
It's more of a short term burn to enable a much longer glide phase looking at the marketing stuff instead of a longer, controllable burn from a missile, but yea, you're not wrong either. I think they are calling it a bomb instead of a missile because of the warhead weight it's carrying compared to anything short of a cruise missile.
how do they still have fighter-bombers?
how many airfields can there be
Reminder that someone in French air force or MBDA was once really bored, has sense of humor or both.
>"French Air Force"
>Rafale Marine (French naval aviation)
Uh
I'm pretty certain that main user of weapon system is responsible for development, budgeting and other shit even in France. Aircraft weaponry is more of air force thing than navy at large thing. Unless particular weapon is something that will be exclusively used by naval aviation. That is how bureaucracy works. Also, as if random advertising guy in marketing department of MBDA gives a frick what kind of stock image of Rafale they pic for their marketing material.
What did you expect from the creator of the CAESAR?
French love acronym that spell out the system
>CA E S AR
>CAmion Équipé d'un Système d'ARtillerie
Literally "Truck equipped with an artillery system"
>AMX10-RC
AMX stand for: Atelier de issy-les-MoulinauX
(place it was built at, we skip the issy yes)
RC = Roue Canon
(wheel + canon)
If you see
>NG
>Nouvelle Generation
New Generation
Some other french military acronym worth mentioning
>CaRaPACE
>Camion Ravitailleur Pétrolier de l’Avant à Capacité Étendue
carapace = animal shell
literally "extended range front line refueling truck"
>SOUVIM
>système d’ouverture d’itinéraire miné
Literally "system to clear a road with land mine"
>FAMAS
>Fusil D'Assaut De La Manufacture d'Armes De Saint-Etienne
Literally "rifle of weapon factory X"
>PA-MAS
>Pistolet Automatique de la Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne
Same for pistol
>FÉLIN
>Fantassin à Équipement et Liaisons Intégrés
Dérived from Felinae (cat)
Integrated Infantryman Equipment and Communications
>nEUROn drone prototype
wordplay on neuron + Europe
>MAGIC
>Missile Auto-Guidé Interception et Combat
that's where it get magical
>MICA
>Missile d’Interception, de Combat et d’Auto-défense
>MILAN
>Missile d'Infanterie Léger ANtichar
Lightweight Infantry Anti-tank Missile
>Radio CONTACT
>COmmunications Numérisées TACTiques et de théâtre
>Système ATLAS
>Automatisation des Tirs et Liaisons de l'Artillerie Sol/sol
basically: Linking Artillery together to automatize strike
>Radar SPARTIATE
>Système Polyvalent d’Atterrissage de Recueil de Télécommunication et d’Identification de l’AlTitudE
far-fetched one
>Radar COBRA
classic: COunter-Battery RAdar
>anon's joke: CAmion avec CAnon PRopulseur d'Obus UTilitaire
>CACAPROUT
"Shit + Fart" said in a childish way.
>CaRaPACE
>Camion Ravitailleur Pétrolier de l’Avant à Capacité Étendue
>carapace = animal shell
>literally "extended range front line refueling truck"
got any pics?
I found this interesting as I didn't know that "carapace" is the same in French as it is in English (might well be a loanword)
>Literally "rifle of weapon factory X"
lmao
or as Simon Murray put it: "the French name their small arms like they name their wines"
this was in the era of the MAT-49
Not him but here it is. It's a Scania truck.
>CACAPROUT
>"Shit + Fart" said in a childish way.
I'd say POOPYFART works better to translate the childishness.
costs 10x more than US variant
isnt as precise
produced in extremely low volumes
Russia did it better.
>Doesn't show it hitting anything
>hits exactly nothing
does it fly off the rail like a missile, or does the motor kick in mid flight?
Second option anon.
Or rather, not exactly mid flight. The rocket booster kicks in some time after separation. Many Rafale pilots consider this weapon potentially dangerous in certain scenarios since if dropped in a perfectly flat straight flight it can pass behind the jet due to drag after the Rafale accelerates slightly post release, then the AASM can suddenly pitch up and light up its booster propelling it upward at which point it can go over the jet. This only happens during certain engagement scenarios involving strange fly paths though.
As a result, one of the best ways Rafale pilots have to deliver the 6 AASM 250 the jet can carry on individual pre-selected targets, is to do so during a 5.5 G break to make sure the weapons and the jet adopt different trajectories.
It's a Mk82/Mk84 bomb with a guidance kit, so uses the same STANAG 3726 Bail lugs as any other bomb in NATO, and drops from a BRU.
Rail-launched weapons have different methods of suspension.
Canadian here, sick of Ukraine getting all the free shit. Our military fricking blows donkey dicks and it's poor as frick.
Give us some bombs or something this is unfair.
Start murking russians or shut up.
looks like a dragondildo.