Can China win against Taiwan with a missile bombardment of the entire island? I’m talking destruction in the levels that at least 90% of buildings are destroyed
Can China win against Taiwan with a missile bombardment of the entire island?
Can China win against Taiwan with a missile bombardment of the entire island? I’m talking destruction in the levels that at least 90% of buildings are destroyed
Realistically even with US support Taiwan would get shortly btfo. I could be wrong though, I never expected Ukraine to hold out for this long, let alone a whole month. Who knows anything anymore
The US can't support Taiwan if China shuts down the ports and tanks their economy.
People always vastly overestimate economics damage on war efforts.
The nations are generally pretty resilient along as the basics are functional which is food and fuel.
Theses unlike Russia are actually china's waypoints.
>China imports millions of wheat and basedbeans from the US.
Russia is not going to make up for that any time soon and Ukraine isn't going to support China.
The U.S. can feed and fuel itself, China cannot.
>blockades china
>entire country grinds to a halt in a month from lack of coal and oil
>80% of the population will have starved to death within another month
They import. EVERYTHING.
>what do you mean everything?
Why everyone always expects to bombard but to not get bombarded?
As soon as the first missile flies to Taiwan, that funny little dam will get lots of holes in it
Wouldn't that start a nuclear war?
At this point who cares, we're already pushing all of Russias buttons with NATO expansion. Might as well go full-on Fallout universe and push Chinas aswell.
>muh NATO expansion
>while Russia attacks a random neighbor country every few years
>one side is intentionally attempting to kill your whole population and destroy your whole infrastructure
>BOOHOO WE NOOK IF YOU SHOOT BACK
Who gives a shit at that point?
Having nukes does not mean you can do whatever you want and threaten to nuke anyone who opposes you.
It absolutely means you can glass any country which causes natural disasters within your border
>Having nukes does not mean you can do whatever you want and threaten to nuke anyone who opposes you.
except it's precisely useful for such deterrence, see russia currently. if russia didn't have nukes, you bet NATO would be itching for a war with russia.
Yes, screaming MUH NOOKS is effective at not getting your country blown apart by stealth bombers. No, screaming MUH NOOKS is not effective at letting your country do whatever you want as shown by China not doing whatever they want despite really wanting to and Russia being bleeding out like a stuck pig over fricking Ukraine.
Because you have to be 18 to post here, kid
What is the point of destroying the entire island?
If Taiwan chip making is destroyed, the world will pretty much end.
Electronics manufacturers will be at a standstill for at least 5 years before catching up.
The "new" fancy shit America is building is only current Taiwan tech to replace the next generation going in now.
No one wants to destroy Taiwan and China cannot just copy this tech.
Currently more than half a dozen of their (CCP) top chip & IC developers have been imprisoned for failure/theft.
Think bigger, Anon.
>MuH compooter chips
PLA/CCP want Taiwan to consolidate political authority over the Chinese world, and do break out of the first island chain; the chip fabs are icing on the cake; completely optional in their decision making.
It is all the chips....the world runs on them.
What is being built here are not going to be current Gen by the time construction is complete.
Taiwan will still have the best chips.
If they get destroyed or taken over by a bunch of inept commie slaves, technological progress will come to a standstill.
China is better served rattling their sabers than fricking everything up.
At least this way, those chips get made and they can use em.
>It's all the chips
wrong, Samsung for example is already matching the quantity of TSMC - who is slated to build a superfab on US soil anyway.
>b-but muh cutting-edge 1nm 6 gorillion layer wafers
Neither used or required in 99% of current devices, and can always be caught back up to on US soil, or in competing Korean/Japanese/European/Israeli/CCP/etc. labs.
>If Taiwan chip making is destroyed, the world will pretty much end.
Truth be told this is the real reason so many chip fabs are now being built in the USA. Globalism was a national security risk, and the people responsible should be killed as traitors.
>Globalism was a national security risk, and the people responsible should be killed as traitors.
/thread
>Globalism was a national security risk, and the people responsible should be killed as traitors.
Wait until you found out what kind of system we had before globalism.
>What is the point of destroying the entire island?
why should taiwan exist if china can't own it?
But they do technically own it.
They just do not rule it.
not according to everyone else, including russia
?
Only 13 countries out of 193 recognize taiwan as a country
14 with russia
>What is the point of destroying the entire island?
To conquer it even if it is pile of rubble clean of human life.
>If Taiwan chip making is destroyed, the world will pretty much end.
world did exist before computers
Chips are secondary issue for china at best.
>Chips are secondary issue for china at best.
Until SK/US become the main chip manufacturers and China get sanctioned by everyone for eradicating Tawain, assuming they haven't been turned into a crater yet.
Mainland Chinese labs have just recently achieved 7nm nodes, supposedly gonna mass-produce. They have all of the know-how and infrastructure to keep pushing Moore's law independently, the real challenge will be protecting it from US stealth bombers.
Why does everyone forget that Taiwan is run by the Government of the Republic of China. The commies on the main land are butthurt and see this a threat to their rule.
> Electronics manufacturers will be at a standstill for at least 5 years before catching up.
Good, software vendors will be forced to relearn how to write software that doesn’t run like total dogshit instead relying on Moore’s Law
I'm a software engineer and I will attempt to enlighten you about what I perceive to be a wrong outlook.
I think you're wrong to think that way.
The problem isn't that the software is written in a clumsy inefficient way, quite the contrary.
Programmers still strive for efficiency in embedded software and similar fields.
After all companies want to spend the least amount of money in hardware to make their product work.
What you think is inefficient code is mostly found in web development or game development.
Military , Space, Industrial applications all need the most efficient code possible.
Now... 20, 30 years ago you didn't have the complexity or the demand for features that you have today.
And that is way you need powerful hardware, to accommodate the increase of complexity.
For example, you can now take a photo of a text in a foreign language and your phone will translate it in a matter of seconds.
And that tool needs to work in a small handheld device. Think about it.
>The "new" fancy shit America is building is only current Taiwan tech to replace the next generation going in now.
bro it's not the new shit you have to worry about. TSMC makes an insane amount of the old shit (90nm+) and when eg auto makers go line down THAT is what they are lacking not le 5nm memes.
If muh 5nm fabs get glassed, then you are right all it means is we'll be stuck on Samsung chips for smartphones and Int(c)el chips for PC's and dataservers, maybe also GloFo.
BUT. if those high-nm shit gets bombed. Then we are fricked. ANYTHING electronic will be significantly harder to build because next to that big-$$$ low-nm chip you've got PMICs, ADCs, op-amps, digital IO expanders, random single logic gates, and ASICs that are a combination of one or more those plus other functions. And the sheer raw amount of capacity that will be taken offline is just too much to replace quickly. Now you might say, good, we don't need all this electronic shit in cars, consumer goods, etc, and honestly I agree. But there is actual useful & productive stuff like industrial/scientific/medical equipment that these chips are used for. And the 2020 semi rationing/lead times will look like a joke compared to what will happen if TSMC goes down.
This is all of course ignoring that in a broader war scenario where waters/airspace off Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, and/or the Philippines become contested you can say goodbye to getting any chips at all because no matter where chips are fabbed, I can almost guarantee they are packed and tested in one of those location. So yeah a war in Taiwan will absolutely frick the semiconductor industry beyond all recognition.
Every fab in taiwan can be hopelessly sabotaged inside 10 min. All the technicians have to do is break the foups apart while inside the machines and they are permanently damaged.
So if China goes for it they are already pricing in not making a single wafer there for a long time.
why do people fail to realize it's not mostly about the chips. It's about sending a message, that they can and will attack taiwan if it gets too close the west/US. This is just posturing. Tomorrow the drills will probably end anyway
>it's not mostly about the chips
for China sure, it's about the narrative, for the US it definitely is about the chips
So if China really wants to win, the obvious move would be to send a cruise missile to every chip factory in the middle of the night and then invade the next day. Would America really come rescue their chip vassal state if it can't make chips anymore?
That would be a reason to nuke shit out of china for fricking with american amusements.
The Chinkoids have been obsessed with reclaiming Taiwan since well before TSMC, or even microchips, existed. Sorry Chang, you had your shot, you blew it, move on with your life (before an errant piece of construction equipment ends it).
China cannot win without a sneak attack, period. That's why they were running tests on loading up cargo ships and ferries with amphibious vehicles, recently. In an open attack against Taiwan, they can bomb as many buildings as they want, but the second their fleet puts to sail it's going to get roasted by ASMs. And without a functioning navy, the crossing volume required to take the island would be de facto impossible to marshal up. They would have roughly 3-5 days to take the whole island before American and Japanese fleets made things excessively violent and enforced a blockade of the Chinese coast. That means China would have to do all sorts of crazy business, like dump hordes of paratroopers on the island knowing full well they will get cut-off and surrounded, dying in droves in the process, just to tie up Taiwanese forces long enough to make some semblance of concentrated landings on the coast. Which, again, might not be possible depending on the mood of the USN.
Quite simply, if it were possible, they would have tried already. The only viable strategy is a lightning attack that takes over before Americans can adequately respond. If it becomes a drawn out battle, China would be fricked.
> China cannot win without a sneak attack
Which, of course, cannot be done on such a large scale in the modern day
I don't think China is stupid enough to go full out. But I said this about Putin as well and look how that turned out.
I think China wants to draw attention from Ukraine, but i really don't think they want the type of spotlight a real attempt would bring.
Taking Taiwan is never a hard task for China, the only reason they don't is because of US of A.
You can thank US of A for the stability of the region, although it was also US that created this shit fest.
>although it was also US that created this shit fest
in the south china sea? taiwan? What's the US involvement there? Didn't they lose their civil war and evacuated to taiwan?
Mabye hes referring to the part where the U.S. regime kept over and over again treatening China with the nuclear option if they actually launch an invasion that exists beyond Wikipedia fanfictions.
Maybe hes referring to the part the U.S. regime kept funding and arming and aiding the nationalist militias to contain the larger part of Chinas population that had historically hated them and even throughout the one and only sham elections held in the country in Chinas history refused to vote them so as to prolong the civil war and keep China divided. and destabilized
Maybe hes referring to the part were the U.S. and U.K. founded the whole anti Quing empire movement organizing, funding and arming cliques of American-Chinese from Canada and USA, who would later become the founders of the RoC to overthrow, divide and destablize imperial China creating the grounds for the civil war in first place?
Maybe hes referring to the part were the U.S. helped Imperial Japan with personel and arms to invade and annex Taiwan in first place.
You know, the usual parts of the Taiwan backstory that are widely censored in American press, broadcasting and textbooks, while any history revisionst larps is endorsed like where one day Chinese people just had the sudden idea to implement "democracy with American characteristics" and decided that Taiwan was independent from China and Americas ally and everyone agreed because conveniently all opposition on Taiwan and their families dissappeared for reasons untold.
Nah, he's talking about the part when Americans should have nuked you during the Korean War.
Yanks had a brief window of opportunity where they had the means to answer the Chinese and Russian question permanently and they just let it go by. And deliberately, too.
>implying
You would have run out of HRE and Pu after destroying just a couple cities - just like you did in WWII - and would have also set the precedent for the Soviets to glass Europe. Fricking moronic.
>HRE
None of Taiwan's sordid history is censored here, you dumb tankie troon. We just literally do not care. And in the end we were right anyway - Taiwan is freer, wealthier per capita, healthier, and far more beneficial to the global community thanks to the guiding Anglo hand and the deep Anglo wallet. Socks to such, doesn't it? You commie homosexual.
>Socks to such, doesn't it?
>Phoneposter trying to dunk on anyone else
Pathetic. Maybe next time keep your voice from wavering so the phone can understand you.
Look up how many buildings Taiwan has, or estimate on a grid basis from Google earth and upscale with 20 or so control points.
You will see that if all of China's missiles worked 100% flawlessly and none were intercepted or their launch platforms destroyed before separation their entire stockpile would destroy less than 1% of the architecture in Taiwan.
Then PACOM calls all its sailors back from shore leave where they were creampieing Chinese exchange students (built for BWC, by the way) and Poo suddenly realizes he has zero missiles for Guam, Okinawa, or the 7+ flattops headed his direction. Whoops.
>can x win with just bombardment?
The answer has been frick no since 1916. It will continue to be until drone swarms (maybe).
I'm not reading the previous posts but everyone can go home.
>blow up island
>don't invade
>Island is still Taiwanese hands
that counts as a loss
Yes. No. Maybe.
If anyone tells you they know for sure? They're lying, either to you or to themselves.
And we ain't gonna know, either, because nothing's gonna happen. It's all talk and no walk from everyone involved, as usual. Just a bit louder than normally, which gets all the people not knowing much about the place panicked.
Yeah if China unleashes destruction on an apocalyptic level they would win. What kind of question is this?
What it is about FRICKING MISSILES that has turned everybody into a 21st century Douhet?
You remember that scene in Robocop where Clarence kills one of his goons for burning the money when he blew open the security door? This is what you're suggesting. Even if we assume that the chinsect rocket corps are as good as they say, and Taiwan doesn't retaliate against civic targets or the batteries themselves, and that no one else intervenes in any way at all, you're destroying the whole reason for invading Taiwan. That is, their economy (which you want to parasitize) and their technology (which your own inferior branch of the race can't yet duplicate). This causes a global disruption in computer parts AGAIN, and even if you don't cop a retaliation for that, after a few years of serious disruption which will destabilize your economy, the US now controls all leading edge chip manufacture from inside its borders, rather than on an allied nation's shores.
>Can China win against Taiwan
No
Wouldn't that put them in direct conflict with the US thus invalidating all the US debt they purchased?
who gives a shit about the debt
that's why the US is purposefully causing inflation
its making foreign owned debt more and more worthless
>Can China
No.
And that new TSCM foundry in Arizona? They just finished the buildings a few days ago and are now bringing in the tools. Oh, and it’s going to be a 5nm node. Very smart move, this will allow them to compete with Intel directly for military component contracts, increase their EUV parts for world demands and get access to sweet government subsidies (CHIPS act). So even if Taiwan gets conquered or blockaded to oblivion their chip tech and business will remain.
And China’s miraculous ascension to 7nm? Utterly fake and at best just a tech demonstration like every single one of their big fab accomplishment claims. China is so far behind ASML it’s laughable and unclear how or when they’ll ever close the gap.
Not just ASML but all the other crucial tech suppliers which go into making ASML’s lithography systems a reality. China has none or very little of that. They’re just behind.
And
China's 7nm has been mass produced and is cheap enough for Bitcoin mining. In fact their 7nm is the same as the pre EUV TSMC 7nm, so it's basicay 98 percent of the 7nm made with EUV. Unsurprising, since they recruited a former TSMC specialist and his crew years ago.
Cope and seeth. The only way you can prevent China from advancing is to do a Mossad against their scientists.
If you call that winning. China is dependent on Taiwan semiconductor imports and if the factories are destroyed then China's electronics industry dies.
lmao
see
SMIC can do the last gen 7nm that TSMC did before the EUV tech.
And they do it NOW and not in the future, as Intel currently is.
If Taiwan gets blasted to hell, it is the US and the West who will suffer while China becomes the de-facto monopolist for sub 10nm chips.
>b-but muh japan and south korea!
with what rare earth elements?
>pic
Why does Japan have china’s secret exercise plans