>Can air defense system be simply overwhelmed?
yes, easily, and for cheap.
however, if the air-defense is in ukraine, then *NO*
the interception rate spikes to 110%
and quite literally nothing gets in or through, >FLAWLESS VICTORY
if you will
Long answer: yes, but this is why you have a multi layered defense. Save your larger interceptors for larger threats. You don’t need a pac3 to take out a styrofoam lawnmower drone.
Have you not seen the videos of Ukrainians literally shooting down shitsneeds with truck mounted .50s or APKWS rockets that are probably even cheaper than the drone itself?
>Have you not seen the videos of Ukrainians literally shooting down shitsneeds with truck mounted .50s or APKWS rockets that are probably even cheaper than the drone itself?
lmfao, no, I havent,would love for you to post the shootdowns
for all the shaheds launched, how many were shot down by gunfire? would you even need one hand to count it?
Have you not seen the videos of Ukrainians literally shooting down shitsneeds with truck mounted .50s or APKWS rockets that are probably even cheaper than the drone itself?
Ukraine doesn't have a Shahed problem, the real problem are the nork iskanders launched after several dozen X-55's have taken the brunt of Ukrainian AA.
USN and USAF both operate laser-based missile defense systems. Army is working on a palletizing system.
Israel is developing one too, but that'll likely be more static.
This is the part where you cope and seethe.
you should look at actions by Ansarallah, Hezbollah, and the IRGC events in the Red Sea and occupied Palestine. Counter-air defense tactics are being innovated in real time.
I had a middle class upbringing in the US, I'm just not moronic. When Iraqi militias shell military bases with mortars and fpv's what do you think they are doing? They are learning the best ways to overcome various combinations of US AA systems. That's how thy cooked those three Americans. All Biden can do is a retaliatory airstrike here and there, but its nothing compared to the insights these militias can gain and pass along to other militaries.
Sorry if reality frightens you, I'd suggest killing yourself
nta but there's a reason we're talking about the first ever CIWS kill in the red sea. thirdie logic might overblow "we made it deeper into the defensive layers than anyone before" as a great moral victory, but don't act like they didn't at least briefly make every butthole on that ship pucker hard enough to shit diamonds
All the drones and cruise missiles that was supposed to overwhelmed the air defense got shot down by jets before they even entered israel, proving that layered defense works
This made the thirdie seethe. No, really. A lot of them really did not know that fighter jet could shoot down cruise missiles.
Do you have more missiles than your enemy has interceptors? If so, then yes. If not, then no.
Also, keep in mind that if you're facing an opponent with a functional and competent air force you probably aren't going to get close enough to use stuff like cruise missiles and drones to overwhelm them, as seen recently. Drones and cruise missiles are easy to shoot down from the air, and an aerial interception takes a lot of pressure off your interceptor missiles.
So if you want to overwhelm an opponent like the US, you probably need to use a ton of ballistic missiles. Or be close enough to them that you can spam cruise missiles/drones and not have them all get intercepted by the air force.
They absolutely do. The thing thirdies don't realize is that their spam doesn't have infinite range, is useless if it has no method of finding and accurately targeting, and that your spam can also be countered by enemy intelligence noticing the massive buildup in missiles and missile launch systems before you spam and then blow them all up.
US can also literally drop pallets of stealth cruise missiles from cargo planes lol
It can work if you have a massive amount of cheap expendable rockets, and mix them with precision rockets. The problem is stockpiling them and degrading the enemy radar. Radar can now pick and spot out priority targets. Perhaps loading a few missiles with a bunch of chaff could and timing them or purposely getting hit could negate radar but thats dubious with tech now. Oh yeah and range is another large issue, the enemy can see you before you can make an impact/
they tried to overwhelm the patriot, and it never worked, not even once
its like the patriot got better the more the vatniks tried to confuse it.
they might be sentient even (to some degree)
like in pic the patriot battery only have 8 missiles ready to fire. So 9 drones is a break point.
I presume they have turret tech firing cheap rounds for cheap drones. Or even British inventing some lazer costing few quid a shot. Nevertheless on media all I see is patriot and other rocked based systems. And the system costs billions. Is this just a marketing tactics ?
In general I'm just amazed by the contrast how cheap drones destroyed multimillion costing tanks with crews. Don't they have math professors working in there ? And from all the place Iranian drones. A country heavy sanctioned and lacking in tech because of it.
Another goncerntrolling thirdworldoid cope thread. No, western air defense cannot be simply overwhelmed with swarm cheap/fake drones and shit, at least for now. You dumbasses act like US does not have stockpiles of hundreds of thousands of air to air and surface to air missiles. A sidewinder cannot swat a shahsneed. Missiles have limited shelf life so we better shoot them before they expire. Even then, do you fricking realize just how many fricking missiles we have rotting away in storage because we don't need them (yet). How many western warships were hit in the red sea so far, and what's the ETA to outproduce western industrial capacity in your chinkshit drone sweatshops?
Imagine you fly a swarm of cheap toy drones and have those million dollar miles shooting them down, then the real drones fly in still saturated with fake drones and start dropping bombs. Lmao, yeah missile defense systems already have their problems but they multiply when it's a shit ton of things they have to shoot down.
>million dollar miles
Too much ESL, FRICKING STUDY RAJESH. Anyway, consider: >EW >lasers/DEW >machineguns >autocannons
Most importantly, >you WILL be bombed in return
You don't need to imagine, this is exactly what Iran tried doing a few days ago. They fired about 150 OWA drones and some ~50 actual cruise missiles. The end result is all of them got shot down by aircraft before they even reaches Israel's air defense system, as the drones travel less than 150 knots and are easily interdicted. The cruise missiles travel faster at 400+ kts, but aircraft can still catch up.
Im not really sure what the point of launching the shasneeds and cruise missiles was
Those two things are not intercepted by the same systems that intercept the BM, so they really didnt even “absorb” any of the firepower to get the BMs through
if your goal to defeat the enemy defenses is to spend 10x the amount you normally would have spent and only inflict 1/10th the amount of damage you would have inflicted without their defenses, then their AA worked perfectly well
Yes. The Gerans predecessors seems to come from some West-German design specifically designed to hit Soviet emitters. >Use a version which is guided to target >Uses a home on emissions if anything is detected >For good measures use one of those jet powered ones >Shoot a shitload of them at one launch site >Hope they don't have capable point-defense or SPAAG nearby which would ruin the chances of getting through
Yes, either swarm it or wait until its reloading its missile rack.
Yesterday Hezbollah took out an Iron Dome launcher with 'low level drones'.
Confirmed by IDF casualty report.
Probably got lucky when it was empty or out of action, but still a Kill.
https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/status/1780299001100677518
the US has ship lasers and truck lasers that have a range of up to 5 miles. They are only a couple years old but they are starting to install them on ships. if you just put them on a bunch of trucks you can stop a swarm pretty easily. Apparently they can be scaled up to 120kw in the future.
The cost something like $20 a shot. A lot cheaper than a multi million dollar missile. I have no idea how a patriot missile can cost more than a tomahawk though.
Ideally you would do some sort of risk management/prioritization which is probably what Ukraine is doing.
If you see a huge missile/drone barrage, then what is actually more important for your war effort? Your super important military assets, personnel and infrastructure or some ancient shitty commie apartment complex full of 90 year old Ukrainian babushkas? The general populace is going to be furious anyway for Russia killing their grandma's anyway so it might be better to protect your vital assets. That's just war.
>have a SAM battery >it has 6 rockets >send 7 cheap drones heading straight for it >if it doesn't react to these cheap drones it gets destroyed >if it reacts, it still gets destroyed
Yes, anon, in a vacuum or in a moronic military, it can very much get overwhelmed and depleted.
That is why you have layered defenses of strategic AD systems like Patriot, long range AD like SAMP/T, short range AD like Crotale, MANPADS and Flaks.
yes of course, as hamas demonstrated a few months ago when they brute forced through iron dome with their sewer pipe sugar rockets
>Can air defense system be simply overwhelmed?
yes, easily, and for cheap.
however, if the air-defense is in ukraine, then *NO*
the interception rate spikes to 110%
and quite literally nothing gets in or through,
>FLAWLESS VICTORY
if you will
cope harder thirdie
post rank airmen
meds
hi helmettard
what's the fourth one supposed to be?
troony?
It's some western twitter shill or something iirc
Isn't this the bunkie "white supremacist" who was mistaken for a shitskin and greeted with Salam Aleikum in Moscow?
>what are MALD
Short answer: yes
Long answer: yes, but this is why you have a multi layered defense. Save your larger interceptors for larger threats. You don’t need a pac3 to take out a styrofoam lawnmower drone.
>You don’t need a pac3 to take out a styrofoam lawnmower drone.
^does ukraine know that?
Ever heard of Gepards?
yah and they dont do shit
>Have you not seen the videos of Ukrainians literally shooting down shitsneeds with truck mounted .50s or APKWS rockets that are probably even cheaper than the drone itself?
lmfao, no, I havent,would love for you to post the shootdowns
for all the shaheds launched, how many were shot down by gunfire? would you even need one hand to count it?
>yah and they dont do shit
According to some zigger telegram? There are videos of them shooting down shaheeds and cruise missiles
>If I ignore all the evidence of Gepards, .50s and APKWS shooting down shitsneeds, it means it never happened!
Rope.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1771098361103278496
https://twitter.com/DailyTurkic/status/1763980873408331816
Now frick off
Have you not seen the videos of Ukrainians literally shooting down shitsneeds with truck mounted .50s or APKWS rockets that are probably even cheaper than the drone itself?
Ukraine is hitting cruise missiles with Stingers.
Ukraine doesn't have a Shahed problem, the real problem are the nork iskanders launched after several dozen X-55's have taken the brunt of Ukrainian AA.
Anti missile missiles will always be more expensive than regular missiles
For the next 12 to 24 months.
Then we're back to rapid fire flak auto cannon (this time with AI!), land based CIWS and lasers.
Swings and roundabouts init.
>lasers.
lmfao, no
So the USN is not currently fielding anti drone laser systems on 8 ships?
>I don't like that this thing ruins my delusions
>therefore it isn't real
Holy shit gtfo with your thirdie moronation.
>So the USN is not currently fielding anti drone laser systems on 8 ships?
no
Good job, you've outed yourself.
>he thinks its his grinder™ tab
>utterly unprompted
>grindr
You are ghey.
USN and USAF both operate laser-based missile defense systems. Army is working on a palletizing system.
Israel is developing one too, but that'll likely be more static.
This is the part where you cope and seethe.
Israel is getting tech transfers from USA, there isn't a thought in Israel MIC that wasn't patented by an American 30 years prior.
you should look at actions by Ansarallah, Hezbollah, and the IRGC events in the Red Sea and occupied Palestine. Counter-air defense tactics are being innovated in real time.
lol ok thirdie
I had a middle class upbringing in the US, I'm just not moronic. When Iraqi militias shell military bases with mortars and fpv's what do you think they are doing? They are learning the best ways to overcome various combinations of US AA systems. That's how thy cooked those three Americans. All Biden can do is a retaliatory airstrike here and there, but its nothing compared to the insights these militias can gain and pass along to other militaries.
Sorry if reality frightens you, I'd suggest killing yourself
nta but there's a reason we're talking about the first ever CIWS kill in the red sea. thirdie logic might overblow "we made it deeper into the defensive layers than anyone before" as a great moral victory, but don't act like they didn't at least briefly make every butthole on that ship pucker hard enough to shit diamonds
>we're talking about the first ever CIWS kill in the red sea
What what? A CIWS shot something down? What was it?
Pretty sure both HAMAS and Iran demonstrated they can get through with even minimal resources.
>Pretty sure both HAMAS and Iran demonstrated they can get through with even minimal resources.
It would be hard if they're parked next to machine guns since they'd take care of the slow moving targets.
The Iranian fuel containers looked like space x rockets
>le cheap drone spam will defeat (military hardware) xD
Ukraine and Israel have proven you wrong my brown skinned friend.
If you only have six bullets in your revolver and there's 7 bad guys armed with noifes, you're fricked, regardless.
do you think saturation attacks are new?
All the drones and cruise missiles that was supposed to overwhelmed the air defense got shot down by jets before they even entered israel, proving that layered defense works
This made the thirdie seethe. No, really. A lot of them really did not know that fighter jet could shoot down cruise missiles.
Do you have more missiles than your enemy has interceptors? If so, then yes. If not, then no.
Also, keep in mind that if you're facing an opponent with a functional and competent air force you probably aren't going to get close enough to use stuff like cruise missiles and drones to overwhelm them, as seen recently. Drones and cruise missiles are easy to shoot down from the air, and an aerial interception takes a lot of pressure off your interceptor missiles.
So if you want to overwhelm an opponent like the US, you probably need to use a ton of ballistic missiles. Or be close enough to them that you can spam cruise missiles/drones and not have them all get intercepted by the air force.
yes
it's kind of strange planners don't account for this
this is literally rocket/missile zerg rush, it will wear you down and eventually kill you
They absolutely do. The thing thirdies don't realize is that their spam doesn't have infinite range, is useless if it has no method of finding and accurately targeting, and that your spam can also be countered by enemy intelligence noticing the massive buildup in missiles and missile launch systems before you spam and then blow them all up.
US can also literally drop pallets of stealth cruise missiles from cargo planes lol
It can work if you have a massive amount of cheap expendable rockets, and mix them with precision rockets. The problem is stockpiling them and degrading the enemy radar. Radar can now pick and spot out priority targets. Perhaps loading a few missiles with a bunch of chaff could and timing them or purposely getting hit could negate radar but thats dubious with tech now. Oh yeah and range is another large issue, the enemy can see you before you can make an impact/
>Can system be overwhelmed
Let me tell you something about every system ever designed
they tried to overwhelm the patriot, and it never worked, not even once
its like the patriot got better the more the vatniks tried to confuse it.
they might be sentient even (to some degree)
like in pic the patriot battery only have 8 missiles ready to fire. So 9 drones is a break point.
I presume they have turret tech firing cheap rounds for cheap drones. Or even British inventing some lazer costing few quid a shot. Nevertheless on media all I see is patriot and other rocked based systems. And the system costs billions. Is this just a marketing tactics ?
In general I'm just amazed by the contrast how cheap drones destroyed multimillion costing tanks with crews. Don't they have math professors working in there ? And from all the place Iranian drones. A country heavy sanctioned and lacking in tech because of it.
Another goncerntrolling thirdworldoid cope thread. No, western air defense cannot be simply overwhelmed with swarm cheap/fake drones and shit, at least for now. You dumbasses act like US does not have stockpiles of hundreds of thousands of air to air and surface to air missiles. A sidewinder cannot swat a shahsneed. Missiles have limited shelf life so we better shoot them before they expire. Even then, do you fricking realize just how many fricking missiles we have rotting away in storage because we don't need them (yet). How many western warships were hit in the red sea so far, and what's the ETA to outproduce western industrial capacity in your chinkshit drone sweatshops?
>A sidewinder cannot swat a shahsneed
A sidewinder CAN swat a shahsneed, typo
You had me worried there.
Imagine you fly a swarm of cheap toy drones and have those million dollar miles shooting them down, then the real drones fly in still saturated with fake drones and start dropping bombs. Lmao, yeah missile defense systems already have their problems but they multiply when it's a shit ton of things they have to shoot down.
>million dollar miles
Too much ESL, FRICKING STUDY RAJESH. Anyway, consider:
>EW
>lasers/DEW
>machineguns
>autocannons
Most importantly,
>you WILL be bombed in return
You don't need to imagine, this is exactly what Iran tried doing a few days ago. They fired about 150 OWA drones and some ~50 actual cruise missiles. The end result is all of them got shot down by aircraft before they even reaches Israel's air defense system, as the drones travel less than 150 knots and are easily interdicted. The cruise missiles travel faster at 400+ kts, but aircraft can still catch up.
Im not really sure what the point of launching the shasneeds and cruise missiles was
Those two things are not intercepted by the same systems that intercept the BM, so they really didnt even “absorb” any of the firepower to get the BMs through
if your goal to defeat the enemy defenses is to spend 10x the amount you normally would have spent and only inflict 1/10th the amount of damage you would have inflicted without their defenses, then their AA worked perfectly well
Yes. The Gerans predecessors seems to come from some West-German design specifically designed to hit Soviet emitters.
>Use a version which is guided to target
>Uses a home on emissions if anything is detected
>For good measures use one of those jet powered ones
>Shoot a shitload of them at one launch site
>Hope they don't have capable point-defense or SPAAG nearby which would ruin the chances of getting through
Yes, either swarm it or wait until its reloading its missile rack.
Yesterday Hezbollah took out an Iron Dome launcher with 'low level drones'.
Confirmed by IDF casualty report.
Probably got lucky when it was empty or out of action, but still a Kill.
https://twitter.com/MintPressNews/status/1780299001100677518
>confirmed IDF casualty report
>says "believed to have lead to deaths"
totally confirmed.
the US has ship lasers and truck lasers that have a range of up to 5 miles. They are only a couple years old but they are starting to install them on ships. if you just put them on a bunch of trucks you can stop a swarm pretty easily. Apparently they can be scaled up to 120kw in the future.
The cost something like $20 a shot. A lot cheaper than a multi million dollar missile. I have no idea how a patriot missile can cost more than a tomahawk though.
and it over heats after 2 shots!
Could gas be used to weaken lasers and radars? Tactically gassing the iron dome would be extremely funny.
Ideally you would do some sort of risk management/prioritization which is probably what Ukraine is doing.
If you see a huge missile/drone barrage, then what is actually more important for your war effort? Your super important military assets, personnel and infrastructure or some ancient shitty commie apartment complex full of 90 year old Ukrainian babushkas? The general populace is going to be furious anyway for Russia killing their grandma's anyway so it might be better to protect your vital assets. That's just war.
We will very soon have laser air defenses that slice through drones like butter. I can today buy a 100+kw laser on the civilian market.
>have a SAM battery
>it has 6 rockets
>send 7 cheap drones heading straight for it
>if it doesn't react to these cheap drones it gets destroyed
>if it reacts, it still gets destroyed
Yes, anon, in a vacuum or in a moronic military, it can very much get overwhelmed and depleted.
That is why you have layered defenses of strategic AD systems like Patriot, long range AD like SAMP/T, short range AD like Crotale, MANPADS and Flaks.
fly low and slow as possible to fool AA radar and destroy AA systems.