>They're not going to set foot in Russia
Yes, but independent Rostov and Krasnodar republics are a fair game.
Ukraine will just one sidedly annouce that they recognize those as independent, just like Russia did with the meme republics.
The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty.
It's a gross violation of international law, and just because Russia routinely breaks them doesn't mean the west will let Ukraine do the same
>It's a gross violation of international law, and just because Russia routinely breaks them doesn't mean the west will let Ukraine do the same
Turnabout is a fair play. As long as russia keeps pretending that the meme republics are independent, there is no problem doing the same for russian oblasts.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You can repeat this until you're blue in the face, but the current Department of State isn't going to take this stance. Every action the US has taken in this conflict has been carefully calculated to avoid Russia lashing out with nukes. The Biden admin isn't going to suddenly say "hold my beer, bro" and then do the one thing that would guarantee a Russian nuclear response.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Considering such incursions would only be temporary, for the purpose of securing a victory where negotiations will be a return to 1991 borders, it can be allowed. Ukraine is not waging a war of conquest.
And if Russia even uses one nuke then they are getting at least one thrown back their way.
>It's a gross violation of international law
Are you going to unironically claim Ukraine crossing the border into Russia would be a "war of aggression"? Show me what international law you're citing that says the defending state against a war of aggression can't enter the territory of their attacker.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Russia and Ukraine aren't at war, so if Ukraine randomly invaded Russia out of nowhere then it would absolutely be unjust provocation.
1 year ago
Anonymous
maybe ukraine will just have a special military operation then
1 year ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/e1Oaokj.png
>it's not a war because putler said so
https://i.imgur.com/PhtcKQv.gif
>Russia and Ukraine aren't at war
I'm going to take you at your word and assume you're not trolling, but that is not an effective argument. Ukraine's major allies - Poland, the UK, the US - do not recognize Putin's definition of a "special military operation."
>a state or period of fighting between states or nations
not that I imagine you've ever read the definition, this war really made bait quality go down the dumpster
yes Yes YES FEED ME (YOUS) FUCKING RETARDS AHAHAHAHA
https://i.imgur.com/A2uhuW3.jpg
>Russia controls enough to economically and catastrophically crippled it.
lol well this is true that anything russia controls just goes down the economic shitter, i'll give you that.
I agree
1 year ago
Anonymous
>I was only pretending to be retarded
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Ha ha, I was only pretending to be retarded
1 year ago
Anonymous
You have to be 18 to post on this board
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Ha ha, I was only pretending to be retarded
>I was only pretending to be retarded
more (yous) gimme MOAR
1 year ago
Anonymous
>it's not a war because putler said so
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Russia and Ukraine aren't at war
1 year ago
Anonymous
I'm going to take you at your word and assume you're not trolling, but that is not an effective argument. Ukraine's major allies - Poland, the UK, the US - do not recognize Putin's definition of a "special military operation."
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's not an invasion of russia, just a special operation
1 year ago
Anonymous
>a state or period of fighting between states or nations
not that I imagine you've ever read the definition, this war really made bait quality go down the dumpster
1 year ago
Anonymous
We don't care.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Russia is just being "DeStalinified"
1 year ago
Anonymous
This is some kindergarden level magical thinking. You do know that Ukraine is already doing operations over the boarder right?
1 year ago
Anonymous
De facto > De jure
De jure, the German Reich never was formally dissolved/ceased to exist either after 1945, but DE FACTO it doesn't actually exist in real life
>The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty.
Russia and Ukraine are at war right now. Russia's sovereignty cannot be violated, they've suspended any questions of its sanctity by attempting to annex Ukraine. What, did the British censure the US for "violating the sovereignty" of Japan? Get real.
Right, that's why multiple government officials from the west have said targets in russia are legitimate. And I guess we can forget about the Ukrainian helicopter raid of Belgorod and their kamikazi drone on the oil refinery in Rostov-on-Don
US generals are talking with Ukrainian generals so I think you're a retarded gay. US leadership knows whatever plan(s) they have.
1 year ago
Anonymous
American generals can’t even understand what a woman is how they hell would they know strategy. Ukrainians can do the fighting without consulting retards
1 year ago
Anonymous
And yet you're still losing. Ain't that something?
>The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty. They share a border so unless Russia gives up Ukraine can't logically stop at the border. It would allow Russia to keep shelling/bombing them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
there is a difference between border clashes and actual invasions. plenty of countries constantly exchange artillery fire.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yes just as happened in the bydlo puppet stayes during previous cease fires. The problem is that Russia then launched a full scale invasion. So Russia would have to at first agree to leave and not return. But it wont make such an agreement and it can't be trusted anymore so...
1 year ago
Anonymous
not even putin will be dumb enough to attack ukraine ever again after this disaster, ukraine is going to be in HATO/EU soon enough anyways.
>just because Russia routinely breaks them doesn't mean the west will let Ukraine do the same
This is where you are wrong. If Russia started launching chemical weapons, the West would start launching chemical weapons back. Payback is a bitch.
I don't know what analysis I should've expected from a barely-sentient subhuman, but you still failed to meet expectations. The resources and equipment that the U.S. and NATO provided to Ukraine has already paid for itself. The proxy war weakens not only Russia, but also dampens China's ambitions. Furthermore, much of the donated equipment and stockpiles will soon be replaced with modern equivalents, feeding the MIC and giving NATO countries an excuse to modernize their militaries. Just look at what the average European NATO country has in their military budget for the next couple years. And who but the humble U.S. will sell them much of those weapons of war?
Even all that aside, tax player dollars contributing to the wholesale slaughter of Vatniks and the utter humiliation of Russia is worth its weight in gold, IMO.
So from the U.S.'s perspective, a measly few dozen billion here and there to weaken its two largest enemies and make some serious contract cash down the road is already a bargain, no repayment necessary.
the US can, with relatively little investment, get a loyal and reasonably competent ally directly on Russia's border
Like once the war is over they can place a military base within spitting distance of Russia's border
That's a god damn good investment if there ever was one, makes more sense than pumping money in to the Afghanistan black hole, at least in Ukraine they already got hearts and minds
>Russia controls enough to economically and catastrophically crippled it.
lol well this is true that anything russia controls just goes down the economic shitter, i'll give you that.
So long as they have the western border they should continue receiving infinite supplies from NATO cuz obviously Europe and America want to keep this bullshit going.
I don't know what analysis I should've expected from a barely-sentient subhuman, but you still failed to meet expectations. The resources and equipment that the U.S. and NATO provided to Ukraine has already paid for itself. The proxy war weakens not only Russia, but also dampens China's ambitions. Furthermore, much of the donated equipment and stockpiles will soon be replaced with modern equivalents, feeding the MIC and giving NATO countries an excuse to modernize their militaries. Just look at what the average European NATO country has in their military budget for the next couple years. And who but the humble U.S. will sell them much of those weapons of war?
Even all that aside, tax player dollars contributing to the wholesale slaughter of Vatniks and the utter humiliation of Russia is worth its weight in gold, IMO.
So from the U.S.'s perspective, a measly few dozen billion here and there to weaken its two largest enemies and make some serious contract cash down the road is already a bargain, no repayment necessary.
Ukraine is literally perfect for the west to save and then Marshal Plan back to success. It is a buffer state to Russia (and is doing its job right now), and has a low expected cost of living (compared to other western countries). It had an established industrial base pre-war.
We should Marshal Plan it back to a functioning economy, move factories there, and produce goods for the western market in a western-aligned country. Some of those factories looking to move out of China because the Chinese government are being pieces of shit could integrate there.
Even better, the economic buildup will allow Ukraine to build their military back and continue to act as an effect buffer state against any further Russian aggression, should Russia even exist in its current form in a decade.
>NATO asks if you wanna join >Politely decline >Russia invades you anyway >"Man, we should have taken a deal with NATO" >"Nah, it's good bro, here, have these weapons that completely outclass anything Russia has." >"Oh wow, thanks, but we're still gonna need to rebuild after we wi-" >"Yeah got that sorted too, have like, a fuckload of money and a majority of our industry that was formerly outsourced to China"
>Ukraine becomes everything Russia is not >a militarily and economically powerful nation for which the world relies on and eagerly wishes to do business with, able to forge its own destiny
COME HOME SLAV MAN
Ukraine has oil, wheat, aerospace manufacturing, warm water shipyards, semiconductor and steel production. they want to use western tech and they fucking hate russia.
We're paying them to "buy" our old shit, which is replaced with more U.S. manufactured shit, which creates jobs. Only thing stopping us from opening up the catalogue is russia giving the west an excuse. by next year, Ukraine might be flying f-16s, F-18s, A-10s, and AWACS. Now that the Swedes are on board, the might even invest in Grippens.
all of this is fucking great. it only cost us... $18 Billion
>$18 Billion
US military spending was some 720 billion last year.
Imagine crashing Russia with no survivors, accepting another country under your sphere of influence, creating buffer state on the borders of Europe and potentially also a great source of goods and raw materials, all for a mere 18 billion.
For the US/west and more active EU states, this is the deal of a century, if not centuries.
Monke really did not thought this through at all.
Anyone following the Gripen-E knows how desperate SAAB is getting to sell it. It's export market share has been completely devoured by the F-35. Ukraine is NOT getting the F-35 any time soon, and even if it did, only the STVOL B-variant has a chance at being useful.
Gripens can do basically anything Ukraine needs. Cheap to maintain even with minimal training and equpiment, and can use every NATO weapon. Gripens are literally designed to kill Russians in this exact kind of environment.
I imagine the US would supply hogs, legacy hornets, and vipers in bulk. That leaves high-end gen 4.5 procurement to the Swedes. The US tend to spread the wealth to domestic manufactures in their own programs, so now they have their new ally to consider too.
Anon your post is pure fantasy, Ukraine is the most corrupt government in the world, at all levels you have officials taking large bribes and misusing government funds. All that would happen is that NATO would send Ukraine even more funds than they already do, and the Ukrainian officials would "misplace" that money into their own pockets. Before this war started you could find hundreds of articles being posted every year about how shitty the corruption is in Ukraine, it's worse than the USA was during prohibition
Also if NATO wanted Ukraine to be a buffer zone, they wouldn't have pushed for Ukraine to join NATO and even launch a coupe back in 2014 which resulted in the boarder conflict. Russia's peace terms actually give the buffer zone you want anon, but that'd mean a Russian victory which I doubt based off your post that you'd want that. A Ukrainian victory, however would result in more bad blood between Russia and NATO, which would only result in Russia doubling down in their defensive alliance with China. They would make it an absolute military alliance to win the next war, and Russia would prepare for another Ukraine war that would be fought in another 10-20 years. The buffer zone idea only works right now with Russia getting at least one of their demands, the independent boarder states as a buffer between them and Ukraine
Assuming the Ukies pulled something like this and Putin didn't immediately respond with NOOOOOOKS would the Russians have enough of a standing army left inside their borders to stop it
HATO will never approve any operations in Russian territory due to nuclear threat and a very good mobilization excuse. sure they might approve a couple of smookers, but not an invasion.
this spring alone 134500 russians were conscripted.
there will always be enough conscripts, and russia fought literally all it's wars with conscripts, so there is use.
these conscripts are from villages, nobody cares if they die, there is no threat to rich moscow kids, so there is no threat to regime stability.
if ukraine starts successfully taking back crimea there is already high chance that moscow will start to use tactical nukes just to crush their will to fight.
Russia now doesn't have the numbers it did in past wars and in those past wars everyone fought. So, the at least middle class urban kids will he next. Russia is inevitably going to have a regime change or civil war.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>and in those past wars everyone fought
very false. since afghanistan all the wars were fought by absolute bottom of the barrel of soviet/russian society. that's why there was no major anti-war/conscription movement even during 1995 Chechen disaster.
>moscow will start to use tactical nukes just to crush their will to fight.
That's another losing move. Even in a slight chance that it did not go into full fledged nuclear exchange because using nukes is even less tolerable thing for the west than straight up open genocide, it surely resort into western(and maybe even chinese because those guys have nuclear umbrella agreement with Ukraine) intervervention and kicking Russians out of the ukraine and stealth bombing every russian nuclear asset.
Screw their nukes. They haven't used them yet and doing so now is both admittance of failure, followed promptly by collective suicide. Russia can either pull out of the war or they can deal with when it does spill onto their land.
what collective suicide? HATO won't launch their nukes if Kyiv gets nuked, they will be very concerned though.
russians won't care about nuking their neighbors, they are "apolitical".
What makes you think we won't? Allowing nukes to be used in an offensive war by the aggressor once they start losing is a precedent that cannot under any circumstances be permitted. If Russia fires a nuke NATO will crush it by any means necessary and reduce it to city-states.
That’s bs and you know it. If Russia cooks a few million people with a nuke the very LEAST response the west will give is a full scale Gulf War tier coalition of the willing assault on Russia proper. That actually might happen anyway, because the global economy is about to tank and the Vatican just pulled all of its funding from and everywhere and brought its assets back home.
Regardless, if ANYONE thinks you can detonate a nuke and do not have the western world retaliate against you you’re absolutely crazy. Just like the Russians. Captcha: JYASS
>Kyiv in 72 hours! >This is a setback, two more weeks! >It's not a retreat, merely a reorganization! >The Kyiv thrust was a feint, the troops lost were expendable! >We will take Odessa! >We didn't need those landing ships! >We don't need the Moskva! >Snake Island is ours! >Those Spetsnaz were Ukrainian! >We never needed Snake island! >We never wanted Odessa! >The pace of our advance is fine! >We'll advance when we're ready! >You didn't hit our planes in Crimea! >We moved our planes from Crimea after the attack, we didn't need that airport! >The Kherson offensive exists only on twitter! >The Kharkiv rout is actually defense in depth!
(You are here) >The Kherson front, at least, will hold! >Crimea will hold! >You'll never invade Russia proper or we'll nuke you! >You'll never execute us for our crimes! >You'll never dissolve the Russian Federation! >Russia will never be turned into an open pit mine by Ukraine and its western allies, along with the backstabbing Chinese!
Of all the off-topic garbage on this board right now, I have to see that some of those blue arrows is such a level of retarded nonsense that it made me give a (You).
Ukraine has already launched multiple attacks in Russia. The idea that a few troops is too far but a helicopter and missile strikes is fine is just baffling.
>The idea that a few troops is too far
i mean everyone thought they would fold in 3 days, now look where we are. Sisters Stalingrad/Volgograd isnt that far away.........could we see in our lifetime another siege of it
Ukraine has already launched multiple attacks in Russia. The idea that a few troops is too far but a helicopter and missile strikes is fine is just baffling.
Russia really doesn’t control much of Ukraine tbh
Russia controls enough to economically and catastrophically crippled it.
>endless NATObux
>economically cripple
Lmao
They did cripple themselves in the process.
They're not going to set foot in Russia
>They're not going to set foot in Russia
Yes, but independent Rostov and Krasnodar republics are a fair game.
Ukraine will just one sidedly annouce that they recognize those as independent, just like Russia did with the meme republics.
The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty.
It's a gross violation of international law, and just because Russia routinely breaks them doesn't mean the west will let Ukraine do the same
Russia does not exist so its sovereigty cannot be violated.
t. West
Oh so you're a vatnik then. Fucking waste of time
>It's a gross violation of international law, and just because Russia routinely breaks them doesn't mean the west will let Ukraine do the same
Turnabout is a fair play. As long as russia keeps pretending that the meme republics are independent, there is no problem doing the same for russian oblasts.
You can repeat this until you're blue in the face, but the current Department of State isn't going to take this stance. Every action the US has taken in this conflict has been carefully calculated to avoid Russia lashing out with nukes. The Biden admin isn't going to suddenly say "hold my beer, bro" and then do the one thing that would guarantee a Russian nuclear response.
Considering such incursions would only be temporary, for the purpose of securing a victory where negotiations will be a return to 1991 borders, it can be allowed. Ukraine is not waging a war of conquest.
And if Russia even uses one nuke then they are getting at least one thrown back their way.
>MUH NOOOOOOOOOOKS
Do it, gay
that's most likely correct. It already did not support georgia, because of the fuckery in 2008
>It's a gross violation of international law
Are you going to unironically claim Ukraine crossing the border into Russia would be a "war of aggression"? Show me what international law you're citing that says the defending state against a war of aggression can't enter the territory of their attacker.
Russia and Ukraine aren't at war, so if Ukraine randomly invaded Russia out of nowhere then it would absolutely be unjust provocation.
maybe ukraine will just have a special military operation then
yes Yes YES FEED ME (YOUS) FUCKING RETARDS AHAHAHAHA
I agree
>I was only pretending to be retarded
>Ha ha, I was only pretending to be retarded
You have to be 18 to post on this board
more (yous) gimme MOAR
>it's not a war because putler said so
>Russia and Ukraine aren't at war
I'm going to take you at your word and assume you're not trolling, but that is not an effective argument. Ukraine's major allies - Poland, the UK, the US - do not recognize Putin's definition of a "special military operation."
It's not an invasion of russia, just a special operation
>a state or period of fighting between states or nations
not that I imagine you've ever read the definition, this war really made bait quality go down the dumpster
We don't care.
Russia is just being "DeStalinified"
This is some kindergarden level magical thinking. You do know that Ukraine is already doing operations over the boarder right?
De facto > De jure
De jure, the German Reich never was formally dissolved/ceased to exist either after 1945, but DE FACTO it doesn't actually exist in real life
>The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty.
Russia and Ukraine are at war right now. Russia's sovereignty cannot be violated, they've suspended any questions of its sanctity by attempting to annex Ukraine. What, did the British censure the US for "violating the sovereignty" of Japan? Get real.
No we won't. Russia started shit, and using someone else's dumb bullshit as precedent to throw it back at them is classic Western tactics.
>The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty.
Why though?
Right, that's why multiple government officials from the west have said targets in russia are legitimate. And I guess we can forget about the Ukrainian helicopter raid of Belgorod and their kamikazi drone on the oil refinery in Rostov-on-Don
US generals are talking with Ukrainian generals so I think you're a retarded gay. US leadership knows whatever plan(s) they have.
American generals can’t even understand what a woman is how they hell would they know strategy. Ukrainians can do the fighting without consulting retards
And yet you're still losing. Ain't that something?
you're actually correct, because the West will pivot to invading Russia just to try and hold back the Poles
>The west will drop support for Ukraine if they start violating Russian sovereignty. They share a border so unless Russia gives up Ukraine can't logically stop at the border. It would allow Russia to keep shelling/bombing them.
there is a difference between border clashes and actual invasions. plenty of countries constantly exchange artillery fire.
Yes just as happened in the bydlo puppet stayes during previous cease fires. The problem is that Russia then launched a full scale invasion. So Russia would have to at first agree to leave and not return. But it wont make such an agreement and it can't be trusted anymore so...
not even putin will be dumb enough to attack ukraine ever again after this disaster, ukraine is going to be in HATO/EU soon enough anyways.
>just because Russia routinely breaks them doesn't mean the west will let Ukraine do the same
This is where you are wrong. If Russia started launching chemical weapons, the West would start launching chemical weapons back. Payback is a bitch.
>violating Russian sovereignty.
>It's a gross violation of international law
Have you ever heard of a "war"?
"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else and nobody was going to bomb them."
They will pay for all of this in debt, nothing is free, reddit chud.
USA will just forgive their debts and then pump even more aid into them. Ukraine will be a useful march for America.
See
I don't know what analysis I should've expected from a barely-sentient subhuman, but you still failed to meet expectations. The resources and equipment that the U.S. and NATO provided to Ukraine has already paid for itself. The proxy war weakens not only Russia, but also dampens China's ambitions. Furthermore, much of the donated equipment and stockpiles will soon be replaced with modern equivalents, feeding the MIC and giving NATO countries an excuse to modernize their militaries. Just look at what the average European NATO country has in their military budget for the next couple years. And who but the humble U.S. will sell them much of those weapons of war?
Even all that aside, tax player dollars contributing to the wholesale slaughter of Vatniks and the utter humiliation of Russia is worth its weight in gold, IMO.
So from the U.S.'s perspective, a measly few dozen billion here and there to weaken its two largest enemies and make some serious contract cash down the road is already a bargain, no repayment necessary.
To quote Donald Trump "wrong"
Howso?
Fuck you
the US can, with relatively little investment, get a loyal and reasonably competent ally directly on Russia's border
Like once the war is over they can place a military base within spitting distance of Russia's border
That's a god damn good investment if there ever was one, makes more sense than pumping money in to the Afghanistan black hole, at least in Ukraine they already got hearts and minds
>reddit spaces every post
>calls others reddit
kekking hard at this shill
They are getting infinite natobux hunny
Russia itself is economically and catastrophically crippled. Thats why they lock up the Russian Kerrygold, its basically real gold bars to vatniks
they are most likely getting frozen russia bux worth 300 billion. that's enough for them to prosper 23 years.
>Russia controls enough to economically and catastrophically crippled it.
lol well this is true that anything russia controls just goes down the economic shitter, i'll give you that.
Ukraine is an economic cripple since the Cumans
Anything above holomdor is an upgrade
>Russia controls enough to economically and catastrophically crippled it.
Cripple itself you wanted to say
Are you claiming that the aim of the special military operation was just to make Ukraine an eternal debt slave of NATO ?
So long as they have the western border they should continue receiving infinite supplies from NATO cuz obviously Europe and America want to keep this bullshit going.
nice grammar, ESL gay
Ukraine is literally perfect for the west to save and then Marshal Plan back to success. It is a buffer state to Russia (and is doing its job right now), and has a low expected cost of living (compared to other western countries). It had an established industrial base pre-war.
We should Marshal Plan it back to a functioning economy, move factories there, and produce goods for the western market in a western-aligned country. Some of those factories looking to move out of China because the Chinese government are being pieces of shit could integrate there.
Even better, the economic buildup will allow Ukraine to build their military back and continue to act as an effect buffer state against any further Russian aggression, should Russia even exist in its current form in a decade.
based. ukraine is pretty big in semiconductor materials too
>NATO asks if you wanna join
>Politely decline
>Russia invades you anyway
>"Man, we should have taken a deal with NATO"
>"Nah, it's good bro, here, have these weapons that completely outclass anything Russia has."
>"Oh wow, thanks, but we're still gonna need to rebuild after we wi-"
>"Yeah got that sorted too, have like, a fuckload of money and a majority of our industry that was formerly outsourced to China"
>Ukraine becomes everything Russia is not
>a militarily and economically powerful nation for which the world relies on and eagerly wishes to do business with, able to forge its own destiny
COME HOME SLAV MAN
Even better, the west will get a supply of young blonde haired Slavic women eager to experience the western world.
>hiv_statistic_map.jpg
i hope they actually do blood test on them before flying them over.
They got lots of slave labor for their agriculture products
Quads of conquest
Quads of truth
Ukraine has oil, wheat, aerospace manufacturing, warm water shipyards, semiconductor and steel production. they want to use western tech and they fucking hate russia.
We're paying them to "buy" our old shit, which is replaced with more U.S. manufactured shit, which creates jobs. Only thing stopping us from opening up the catalogue is russia giving the west an excuse. by next year, Ukraine might be flying f-16s, F-18s, A-10s, and AWACS. Now that the Swedes are on board, the might even invest in Grippens.
all of this is fucking great. it only cost us... $18 Billion
Which is less then what you spent on Afghanistan yearly so I'd say investment well spent
>$18 Billion
US military spending was some 720 billion last year.
Imagine crashing Russia with no survivors, accepting another country under your sphere of influence, creating buffer state on the borders of Europe and potentially also a great source of goods and raw materials, all for a mere 18 billion.
For the US/west and more active EU states, this is the deal of a century, if not centuries.
Monke really did not thought this through at all.
Sweden would LOVE to get Gripens to Ukraine.
Anyone following the Gripen-E knows how desperate SAAB is getting to sell it. It's export market share has been completely devoured by the F-35. Ukraine is NOT getting the F-35 any time soon, and even if it did, only the STVOL B-variant has a chance at being useful.
Gripens can do basically anything Ukraine needs. Cheap to maintain even with minimal training and equpiment, and can use every NATO weapon. Gripens are literally designed to kill Russians in this exact kind of environment.
I imagine the US would supply hogs, legacy hornets, and vipers in bulk. That leaves high-end gen 4.5 procurement to the Swedes. The US tend to spread the wealth to domestic manufactures in their own programs, so now they have their new ally to consider too.
Anon your post is pure fantasy, Ukraine is the most corrupt government in the world, at all levels you have officials taking large bribes and misusing government funds. All that would happen is that NATO would send Ukraine even more funds than they already do, and the Ukrainian officials would "misplace" that money into their own pockets. Before this war started you could find hundreds of articles being posted every year about how shitty the corruption is in Ukraine, it's worse than the USA was during prohibition
Also if NATO wanted Ukraine to be a buffer zone, they wouldn't have pushed for Ukraine to join NATO and even launch a coupe back in 2014 which resulted in the boarder conflict. Russia's peace terms actually give the buffer zone you want anon, but that'd mean a Russian victory which I doubt based off your post that you'd want that. A Ukrainian victory, however would result in more bad blood between Russia and NATO, which would only result in Russia doubling down in their defensive alliance with China. They would make it an absolute military alliance to win the next war, and Russia would prepare for another Ukraine war that would be fought in another 10-20 years. The buffer zone idea only works right now with Russia getting at least one of their demands, the independent boarder states as a buffer between them and Ukraine
>Ukraine becomes Japan post-1905
It is good land but what you say would only be true if they also took Odessa.
Let me finish it for you.
>Russia controls enough to economically and catastrophically crippled it
self.
Bah gawd, the Giga-Kotel.
Called what?
Assuming the Ukies pulled something like this and Putin didn't immediately respond with NOOOOOOKS would the Russians have enough of a standing army left inside their borders to stop it
>Putin didn't immediately respond with NOOOOOOKS
Those are off the table, it would be like putting a gun in his mouth.
Wait a second, that pattern...
>I said it looked like a Guided Missile Cruiser
Under rated post
>PrepHoleopers shitpost about cauldrons
>now when Ukraine does it suddenly its "going to work"
Lmao
PrepHole shitposted about cauldons because russia failed to form even a small one.
Ukraine seems to be succesfully boiling a lot of vatniks though.
chechyna next
drive to chenobyl
no one would expect it
If Russia can do a special operations inside Ukraine.
Ukraine can do a special operations inside Russia
Let it be written.
Let it be done.
if Ukraine actually pulls this off, I will personally banish Moloch from this Earth, with the final showdown in Tel Aviv
HATO will never approve any operations in Russian territory due to nuclear threat and a very good mobilization excuse. sure they might approve a couple of smookers, but not an invasion.
Nukes maybe, but mobilization is a meme and more threat to russia itself than anyone else.
russia could always just start using more conscript then, very few are used rn if we don't count dnrlnr serfs.
There is no conscripts to use, and having more dumb untrained meat shields is more of detriment than benefit.
this spring alone 134500 russians were conscripted.
there will always be enough conscripts, and russia fought literally all it's wars with conscripts, so there is use.
these conscripts are from villages, nobody cares if they die, there is no threat to rich moscow kids, so there is no threat to regime stability.
if ukraine starts successfully taking back crimea there is already high chance that moscow will start to use tactical nukes just to crush their will to fight.
Russia now doesn't have the numbers it did in past wars and in those past wars everyone fought. So, the at least middle class urban kids will he next. Russia is inevitably going to have a regime change or civil war.
>and in those past wars everyone fought
very false. since afghanistan all the wars were fought by absolute bottom of the barrel of soviet/russian society. that's why there was no major anti-war/conscription movement even during 1995 Chechen disaster.
>moscow will start to use tactical nukes just to crush their will to fight.
That's another losing move. Even in a slight chance that it did not go into full fledged nuclear exchange because using nukes is even less tolerable thing for the west than straight up open genocide, it surely resort into western(and maybe even chinese because those guys have nuclear umbrella agreement with Ukraine) intervervention and kicking Russians out of the ukraine and stealth bombing every russian nuclear asset.
>uses tactical nukes
how to get fucking BTFOd by the entire planet 101
Screw their nukes. They haven't used them yet and doing so now is both admittance of failure, followed promptly by collective suicide. Russia can either pull out of the war or they can deal with when it does spill onto their land.
what collective suicide? HATO won't launch their nukes if Kyiv gets nuked, they will be very concerned though.
russians won't care about nuking their neighbors, they are "apolitical".
What makes you think we won't? Allowing nukes to be used in an offensive war by the aggressor once they start losing is a precedent that cannot under any circumstances be permitted. If Russia fires a nuke NATO will crush it by any means necessary and reduce it to city-states.
That’s bs and you know it. If Russia cooks a few million people with a nuke the very LEAST response the west will give is a full scale Gulf War tier coalition of the willing assault on Russia proper. That actually might happen anyway, because the global economy is about to tank and the Vatican just pulled all of its funding from and everywhere and brought its assets back home.
Regardless, if ANYONE thinks you can detonate a nuke and do not have the western world retaliate against you you’re absolutely crazy. Just like the Russians. Captcha: JYASS
No. I called it.
>Kyiv in 72 hours!
>This is a setback, two more weeks!
>It's not a retreat, merely a reorganization!
>The Kyiv thrust was a feint, the troops lost were expendable!
>We will take Odessa!
>We didn't need those landing ships!
>We don't need the Moskva!
>Snake Island is ours!
>Those Spetsnaz were Ukrainian!
>We never needed Snake island!
>We never wanted Odessa!
>The pace of our advance is fine!
>We'll advance when we're ready!
>You didn't hit our planes in Crimea!
>We moved our planes from Crimea after the attack, we didn't need that airport!
>The Kherson offensive exists only on twitter!
>The Kharkiv rout is actually defense in depth!
(You are here)
>The Kherson front, at least, will hold!
>Crimea will hold!
>You'll never invade Russia proper or we'll nuke you!
>You'll never execute us for our crimes!
>You'll never dissolve the Russian Federation!
>Russia will never be turned into an open pit mine by Ukraine and its western allies, along with the backstabbing Chinese!
kek imagine believing this. Angola is about to flip the goddamn table and NONE of you even see it coming
Oh no not the military and economic powerhouse of Angola!
REKT
>based cauldron thread
Ivan is comfy in his new cauldron
For the love of god, dont show this map to the ukrainian VDV
if the Ukrainian VDV was capable of pulling off a successful helo assault in all this, imaging the seething
Of all the off-topic garbage on this board right now, I have to see that some of those blue arrows is such a level of retarded nonsense that it made me give a (You).
It's supposed to be a secret!!
would their masters allow them to step foot in russia or would that be a step to far?
Far as I'm concerned, whatever happens, happens, and is a consequence of Russia's actions.
>The idea that a few troops is too far
i mean everyone thought they would fold in 3 days, now look where we are. Sisters Stalingrad/Volgograd isnt that far away.........could we see in our lifetime another siege of it
Ukraine has already launched multiple attacks in Russia. The idea that a few troops is too far but a helicopter and missile strikes is fine is just baffling.