We should just reverse engineer the famas. Get every famas owner to measure various dimensions and use it to build new blueprints. Test a prototype to see if the gun works and tweak the design accordingly.
I think famas gays want the real deal, not an ar-18 in a body kit. Considering the ones currently in the US go for $20,000, you could still do okay making new production guns to sell at $10,000
can we start a petition to get PSA to make clones of this instead of that stupid ass STG44 that doesn't even look like the real thing, is made of airsoft tier pot metal according to reports from non israelitetuber shills (though tbf it might just be because it's the display model) and is chambered in 5.56 for some reason?
>bro I can fold my AR now with an expensive piston upper, but it's still about what israeli space magic costs
and the thing everyone misses about this is that a bullpup is objectively better, still, because you can have a full length barrel and still be shorter than a carbine length AR.
Also, the Kel-Tec is under a grand and everyone who's shot one says they love it.
theyre so cool everyone with them is switching to the ar15
I started with a stag15 and then picked up an A3. Reloading will always be a matter of just training.
Trigger is harder to get right when it's further away from the action, but the purple pack and aftermarket sears demonstrate that it's just a lack of drive for major manufacturers as their military contracts aren't as demanding for crisper triggers. IWI and Steyr could make the experience better by simply swapping out the factory polymer trigger with something with more bite and stronger trigger pack springs from the start rather than selling it as an aftermarket DLC.
>With the safety on, we feel confident that it is safe up to a 2m drop on packed earth. With the safety off, all bets are off.
It's a good thing that people don't make a habit of shot putting a loaded aug with the safety off 8 ft onto the asphalt
>and stronger trigger pack springs from the start rather than selling it as an aftermarket DLC.
The red springs are lighter. Installing the red trigger spring is a downgrade unless you care more about trigger weight than trigger feel. The red hammer springs are good to go, though.
Because most people are stupid. Bullpups are objectively more space efficient and that can help with a lot of close range tactics. Plus comfy and looks cool. Grandpa guns look lame with the big cowboy stock hanging off the back.
I dunno but I really wish we could get all the chinese weapons into the country so I could see if they're any good. I know from Forgotten Weapons that the QBZ is a hard recoiling lemon, but I wanna see the conventional layout rifle they have now, as well as the optics they use and the performance of the chinese 5.8mm round.
If the later variation military AUGs had a traditional fire selector and the ratworx trigger I think it'd be a lot better received.
Semi -> full in one trigger pull is fucning stupid.
The progressive trigger is more "ergonomic" once you're accustomed to it and you'll never get to shoot a select-fire AUG anyway.
As far as SA goes, the trigger is fine; the red trigger spring is actually a downgrade since it makes the trigger light and mushy instead of heavy and crisp (the reduced power hammer springs are g2g, though)
The AR15 was dropped for this gaudy hunk of shit with 2 charging handles. Goes to show how stupid America's weapons selection process is when the bullpup submission for NGSW was literally perfect.
Why are people still claiming the AR is relevant when it was dropped a year ago?
>bullpup submission for NGSW was literally perfect.
What was so special about it? And they kind of fricked themselves when they didn't submit a real machine gun
I don't get why they wanted a machine gun to go in the package. Feels kind of stupid to have all your armaments come from one manufacturer.
Anyway, the primary advantage of the R-277 is the polymer cartridge. Lighter, more reliable, and versatile. You can even convert existing GPMGs to fire it.
Instead those morons in the army chose yet another AR-15, this time with pissin' hot bubba loads in inadequate brass cases.
GD had the best solution for machine guns, they made a drop in barrel for our existing M60s. Machine guns are one of the few platforms it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber like 5.56 anyway, but we've fielded heavy machine guns in the past like the M60. This was basically just a solution to make the calibers interchangeable with our main service rifle so we don't have to stock 7.62x51 anymore. But we'd still just use the M60, saving shit tons of money. Saving money was NOT the real reason Sig won the contract, GD's barrel swap solution would've been the winner in cost savings by a lot.
Bruh everything in your post is factually incorrect. M60s? LMAO
>Machine guns are one of the few platforms it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber like 5.56 anyway, but we've fielded heavy machine guns in the past like the M60.
The complete opposite is true as it makes more sense to use a 7.62 NATO mg over a 5.56 mg because they more or less weigh the same hence why certain countries (England and Norway for example) are dumping their 5.56 mgs and going back to 7.62 NATO mgs in their squad.
The ammo mainly, and the bullpup design making it qualify for the velocity needs as well as the suppressor requirement without making the length excessive. The Sig cuts the barrel length down to 13" in order for it not to be excessively long with a suppressor, so to get enough velocity to pierce lvl4+ armor it has an insane amount of recoil. The GD bullpup in comparison was smooth shooting yet still compact enough for easy handling indoors and in vehicles. The ammo also shot cold due to the polymer casings. The chamber stays cool but the barrel still heats up. Because of that they didn't really need to adapt it into a machine gun, it already functioned as one. It already had better recoil management and heat dissipation than both other candidates.
It was really the only one that actually brought something revolutionary to the table with its polymer cased ammo, short suppressor, and recoil mitigation. The other options just heard "make it penetrate impenetrable armor" and shoved a frickhuge caliber into a beefed up rifle resulting in excessive recoil, chamber heating, and decreased barrel life.
>It was really the only one that actually brought something revolutionary to the table
I'd say the telescoped ammo of the textron is a promising concept.
The pros were negated by the con of putting the ejection port right where the support hand needs to go. It would've worked as a bullpup, the ejection port would be further forward making shooting from the offhand more comfortable. A combination of the GD and Textron would've been something interesting, otherwise it needed something like the Desert Tech MDR's forward ejection system.
Bruh everything in your post is factually incorrect. M60s? LMAO
>Machine guns are one of the few platforms it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber like 5.56 anyway, but we've fielded heavy machine guns in the past like the M60.
The complete opposite is true as it makes more sense to use a 7.62 NATO mg over a 5.56 mg because they more or less weigh the same hence why certain countries (England and Norway for example) are dumping their 5.56 mgs and going back to 7.62 NATO mgs in their squad.
Tell that to the guy who has to hump all the heavier ammo around. Machine guns are often used for suppressive fire just to get the enemy's heads down, yes it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber... Regardless the military called for an HMG and General Dynamics had the best solution.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Tell that to the guy who has to hump all the heavier ammo around.
I have, and I'll do it again. 5.56 was never a suitable MG round and trying to adopt a 5.56 loading suitable for MG use made 5.56 an aggressively mediocre service rifle catridge. 6.8 is not heavier than its competitor for MG use, it's lighter because its competitor is 7.62x51. We could have a real conversation about 6.8x51 (Lone Star, Sig) vs 5.56x45 (M193, SS109, M855, M855A2, MK318 etc) as service rifle cartridges, but there isn't a conversation to be had about their merits as MG rounds. 6.8 is simply better; best in class in fact.
You have a credibility gap on this topic, by the way. The M60 was replaced decades ago and isn't in service. The M60 isn't a HMG, and is noteworthy mostly for being extremely light for a GPMG.
Basically, stfu and lurk moar, newhomosexual.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Basically
Whole lotta bather to get to the tl;dr.
No one likes this gun and this will likewise be dropped and replaced by an ar. In any case this gun is literally an ar variant any way you fricking moron. it’s 99% a piston ar with its own dimension receiver set based on caliber. Also, it still looks cooler and performs better than bullpup ever will kek
>no one likes this gun >It's an AR >it will be dropped and replaced by an AR
The cognitive dissonance required to still be an ARgay in 2023 is astonishing. I don't think I've ever personally witnessed a triple self contradiction.
not him but no one likes the ngsw because it doesnt fix any problems that still exist where 5.56 falls short like in armor penetration and ballistics/range. its big and bulky too and not aesthetic like an m16 or something. however its still a functioning firearm that is based off of the ar platform. your just seething because you still like bullpups in 2023 to be a little contrarian gay.
They are space efficient and I've done building clearing training and have had to use those skills in the field. OAL is important and that's why you hear so many guys raving about how short a rifle is, otherwise no one would give a shit and we'd all still be shooting rifles the length of a Blunderbuss. You keep your grandpa guns, I'm evolving and using the more practical tool.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>In any case this gun is literally an ar variant any way you fricking moron
Despite not sharing anything in common besides a passing resemblance. I guess by that logic the glock is a BHP variant
>try to have a nice thread to enjoy brappups >ARgays NEED to remind everyone about their superiority
I once thought ARgays had worms in their brain given their behavior, but I realize now that isn't the case. They have no brain, its just worms
Seething.
I’m not even an ARgay and hate them equally but everyone knows bps are inherent trash. They look like a worm’s rifle and performs like one
t. PTRchad
10 months ago
Anonymous
>PTR chad
lmao green mountain barrel hahahahahaha
10 months ago
Anonymous
>but everyone knows bps are inherent trash
Everyone with sub-90 IQ for sure.
PTRs are literally one of the most proven firearms. BPs can’t even get one round through without destroying itself lol
Keep seething
10 months ago
Anonymous
>shilling ptr trash that breaks if you look at it wrong
oh no the virgin moron is feeling threatened lmao
10 months ago
Anonymous
???
lurk moar
you look like an idiot talking shit about a PTR especially while you are likely a bullpup defender lol
10 months ago
Anonymous
>nooooooo not my precious ptr memegun you can't be mean to THAT imma elite OPERATOR!!!!
how curiously sensitive these gays are haha wonder why hahahaha
10 months ago
Anonymous
>but everyone knows bps are inherent trash
Everyone with sub-90 IQ for sure.
>In any case this gun is literally an ar variant any way you fricking moron
Despite not sharing anything in common besides a passing resemblance. I guess by that logic the glock is a BHP variant
Wish I knew that a slave pin was needed to put the mag release back on. I've been waiting for ARID to send out their aftermarket mag releases with one so I can put it together.
well the canon BR55 is in a 9.5x40mm cartridge based on 9x39 Kurz, so it'd be pretty expensive to get a gunsmith to develop a wildcat round that was basically slightly scaled up from a Soviet cartridge and then rechamber the gun in it.
Also I'm unsure how you're going to get the HUD that tells you the rounds left in the mag.
Bullpups are like women with big butts. Of course they're sexy.
10 months ago
Anonymous
AUG gf: >short >butt-heavy >glasses >likes it in the rear >knows exactly where she wants your support hand
10 months ago
Anonymous
Forgot one oops lol
AUG gf: >short >butt-heavy >glasses >likes it in the rear >knows exactly where she wants your support hand
Tavor gf: >Picky eater. >Everything she wants (accessories) are expensive and you BETTER pay up. >Huge ass (figuratively and literally) >Will enjoy middle eastern rekt videos with you.
MDRx gf: >Trying really hard to make up for past frick-ups. >Willing to eat anything. >Flexable. Willing to change herself to get things done. >Proudly American
VHS-2 gf: >Big arms and dexterous hands needed to handle her. >Slightly less ass than her contemporaries. >Forward-thinking and ambidextrous, but kind of goofy >Gets dunked on because of her bootleg visa, dumb tattoos, and cringe nickname (Thanks Springfield)
P90 gf: >Only willing to eat fancy >Shortstack of shortstacks. Will make e-girl jokes. >"Good enough" at everything. >Everyone thinks she's cool and that you're lucky to have her.
F2000 gf: >Can't see shit because her glasses suck. >"Feesh :)" >Gucci and fashionable. People will think you're important with her around. >A lot of cushion for the pushin'
RDB gf: >Cracked out flordian, but still knows how to function somehow. >Easy to charm and easier to please >Drugs keep her weight down. >Arguably the best choice in terms of cost-to-drama.
QBZ-95 gf: >Eats dogs >Fears escalators >圓圓的眼睛回家 >Turns to dust if you talk about Tiananmen
10 months ago
Anonymous
overextending the joke and not even doing it very well
like the Tavor is notoriously overgassed and developed by people who...have experience being overgassed, but you didn't do anything with that
10 months ago
Anonymous
Funny joke reasonably well executed
10 months ago
Anonymous
Original.
Funny ..enough.
Well done, free ammo for you!
I want somebody *cough cough Kel-Tec* to come up with a 9mm downward ejecting bullpup. Ideally a lightweight telescoping bolt with a CMMG style radial delay action. You could still have an adjustable stock since the bolt travel is such a short distance. SBR'd to like 10" with a can would be a great PDW.
I know nobody would actually make it since moronic laws would require a huge barrel to meet OAL requirements, but damn it'd be cool.
said, get something better. It's since been replaced with a Streamlight TRL-1 HL
>In the same vein, here's a 16in x95 with a BLK LBL handguard meant for the longer barrel version
Really wish the MDR Mantis had a version that could wrap a suppressor, would really love the 20 instead of the 16. Wrapped cans are sexy (and practical).
I was wondering if anyone sells a free float that has a heat shield. I always wondered why modern AR's with free float sleeves don't have them. I must really be missing something because that basically doesn't exist. I know vertical forgrips and gloves is probably the answer, but it still seems like something that would be a thing at least for enough people that there would be a small market for them.
10 months ago
Anonymous
What you're missing is that those heat shields are there to keep the plastic from melting/burning, not to keep your hands comfortable. Like you said, with aluminum handguards there are other options, including just running a girthier handguard that has more thermal mass and a wider internal diameter so it won't heat up as fast.
my buddy has the rdb defender variant which has that same kinda mlok on the front of it. shoots great. feels great. good gun. I'm kind of jealous- it cost a grand less than my hellion and I almost like it more
I got mine off Mr gun for 750 and some change a couple years ago when my lgs couldn't get them in stock. It was a little ove 800 with Shipping, insurance and the transfer. Fantastic little gun. I wish they offered it with a slightly beefed up Barrel and trunnion. I have a feeling it would really tighten up the groupings.
Leaf here.
Friend has one for the 20" variant they sell here, as well as a bunch of the Haga Defense aftermarket parts.
The Lucky Irish handguard is really nice, but it's also expensive, and because of how it's mounted it heats up quite quickly through firing as the heat conducts right through the metal screw directly to the outside of the handguard. You'll need to buy some kind of scales for that part of the handguard. It also can't quickly or easily be removed.
My advice would be to grab the Keltec mlok handguard instead, and throw some extra at Haga for the flaired magwell. The haga stock is nice, too, but not really needed.
Talk me out of buying one to turn into the halo br
They're worth it. They're fantastic out of the box ergo wise, the only thing I recommend is a rubber grip sleeve because it's a little narrow. I also put on a Magpul handstop close to the trigger and a stubby vfg at the barrel. I made the sling that comes in the box a single point as well, it works really well with the form factor.
I want the 20 inch barrel but I want the pistol grip too and they don't make one like that in 5.56
this shit looks weird too, like actually alien
I had a dream where america was hip deep in a civil war/ww3 scenario and these were as common as ar15s, modernized fudd guns and "shotgun" platoons were a norm. It was like all the enemies america made were here to fight with the feds blessing. It was doomy yet based
It ran fine out of the box, pretty easy to tune, just load 1 round at a time and back the gas down 1 click per round until it stops locking back on empty magazine, then go back up 2 clicks on the gas...really soft shooting and really quiet suppressed, also no gas fumes in the face
is that the 17 inch barrel with a over-the-barrel can?
[...]
I'd figure that the Tavor being the standard issue weapon of the IDF would make them pickier about the gun, do they just train soldiers to get used to the shitty trigger or what?
>just load 1 round at a time and back the gas down 1 click per round until it stops locking back on empty magazine, then go back up 2 clicks on the gas
is that the 17 inch barrel with a over-the-barrel can?
[...]
I started with a stag15 and then picked up an A3. Reloading will always be a matter of just training.
Trigger is harder to get right when it's further away from the action, but the purple pack and aftermarket sears demonstrate that it's just a lack of drive for major manufacturers as their military contracts aren't as demanding for crisper triggers. IWI and Steyr could make the experience better by simply swapping out the factory polymer trigger with something with more bite and stronger trigger pack springs from the start rather than selling it as an aftermarket DLC.
I'd figure that the Tavor being the standard issue weapon of the IDF would make them pickier about the gun, do they just train soldiers to get used to the shitty trigger or what?
>do they just train soldiers to get used to the shitty trigger or what?
Theres nothing to get used to. Fancy triggers just don't really matter at the end of the day if you're not a competition shooter. It doesn't take a geisele to be able to dump half a mag into a palestinian child
I don't have IDF conscript experience to share but I have worked on the X95 I got as a gift for my brother. Both the X95 and AUG triggers are injected polymer. The surface on the X95 is a bit curved laterally but at the end of the day will be outperformed by anything thinner or with more texture like the sabra lightning bow especially when your hands get wet or sweaty. I shoot in hot deserts so it's more noticeable. The lateral surface of the factory trigger on the AUG is just smooth completely and with the stock trigger pack (no ratworx sear or red spring) it just feels squishy and your finger pad doesn't get a good purchase. If you'll be shooting for a while then it's a lot easier to feel the fatigue. The AUG was designed to have a progressive trigger for fa from the start however so this may have had an impact on the travel felt.
The RFB has the same LOP while using a bigger, longer round. That wouldn't be possible with downward eject.
DE ultimately limits how short the LOP can be. Whereas with a forward eject, a rifle could use a falling/sliding breech block and shorten the space between the magwell and stock. Only a matter of time before that happens.
>The RFB has the same LOP while using a bigger, longer round. That wouldn't be possible with downward eject.
I'm almost certain that they could easily keep the LOP the same if they just use the RDB Hunter/Survival form factor. It might even make reinforcing the thing for higher pressure ammo even simpler.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm almost certain that they could easily keep the LOP the same if they just use the RDB Hunter/Survival form factor
At the cost of having no grip, which is a no-no for modern combat use. If you need to get rid of the grip to save LOP, then it shows LOP is an issue for downward eject.
Will somebody explain to a gunlet here? Why does the action is behind the trigger? Does this make the recoil smaller? Does the balance of the gun is better?
>Will somebody explain to a gunlet here?
Sure I'll bite >Why does the action is behind the trigger?
With traditional designs the stock is essentially "wasted space". It has ergonomic purpose but not functional. Idea with bullpup is to make that area functional. >Does this make the recoil smaller?
In theory yes, since your grip is further aheqd usually, meaning you have more leverage on the rotation axis of the gun. In practice this is marginal and and depends way more on other factors. >Does the balance of the gun is better?
Yes, especially with guns that have more attachments.
The main benefit over all that however is that you can have a longer barrel than traditional guns in the same package, since the barrel reaches all the way to the back of the gun, rather than just the middle. Longer barrel means faster muzzle velocity, since gunpowder gets longer time to burn.
Faster traveling bullets have the potential to cause more damage and are easier to hit targets at longer distances with.
Shorter barrel also means the gun can be manuevered in a CQB or vehicular enviroment more easily.
NTA, different gunlet here. The arguments in favor of a bullpup have always made sense to me; are there any (objective/technical) drawbacks? Other than $$$, all of the arguments against that I can remember seem to rest solely on aesthetics (and I disagree with those assessments, most of the the guns in this thread look absolutely sexo to my eye).
If you're standing around with it at rest and hold it with your arms slightly extended then you're supporting more weight compared to an M4. Transitioning from shooting right handed to left handed during drills is also harder for people just figuring it out compared to getting over that reloading ergonomics but it's all training.
I love bullpups but >are there any (objective/technical) drawbacks?
Sure, and well known/discussed too.
- It's much harder to do a good trigger for one, fundamentally more complex. That's been solved in the last decade, not an impossibility, and it's not like mush military grade triggers somehow don't work obviously, but it's a drawback. Electronic firing may ultimately render this perfectly moot but that's not a thing yet.
- Very different lop which might be less optimal for many. I think this can be trained around but it's there.
- Ejection port being way back is an issue if you want ambi. There are various ways to engineer around this, but again that's the thing, it's more engineering. More complexity.
- Very different manual of arms. I suppose you could call this "subjective" or "skill issue", but muscle memory is really important. If someone has decades under their belt with AR, switching to something radically different IS absolutely a real issue and reasonably so. Obviously someone staring out brand new wouldn't care but the existing market is huge.
There are also some drawbacks that aren't fundamental but still reasonable. Due to the extra complexity and other factors, while there are reasonably old bullpup designs the modern explosion of interest and new modern models is quite recent. They also aren't standardized pattern. That means the 3rd party market is much weaker. You can't customize as much. They're less refined. They're more expensive. It's still "early days" by the pace of the gun industry. You may have a harder time getting them serviced 3rd party.
How much that matters to you vs the strengths is totally subjective but stupid to pretend network effects aren't real.
>Don't care, still like em.
I like em too. I wasn't saying you should care, but other anon asked for drawbacks so there they are. Personally I'm fine with the tradeoffs, but I also understand why the majority wouldn't be. And I can also easily think of things I really wish existed and seem like they should exist (like a 300bo Micron) that don't yet. It's like a lot of "early adopter" stuff, you're getting something newer and cool with unique strengths, but less polished, less 3rd party, less niches covered, more expensive.
I think in another 5-10 years it'll really be down to taste and maybe cost, there will be multiple good no-caveat options just like with ARs, and perhaps even some cheaper-ok choices too.
Thanks very much for the info. Teething issues and 3rd party support are something every early adopter has to deal with, absolutely -- firearms or otherwise. >muscle memory is really important
This point in particular has helped me make sense of a lot of negative reactions I've heard/read where the complaint was something along the lines of "I just don't like them, okay? It doesn't FEEL right."
memory is really important >This point in particular has helped me make sense of a lot of negative reactions I've heard/read where the complaint was something along the lines of "I just don't like them, okay? It doesn't FEEL right."
Yeah, definitely a real issue though. Building up muscle memory is arguably the single most core activity for "training" in general right? There is some other knowledge/skill to gain particularly for long range, learning how to take into account drop, windage etc. But a lot of being good with guns is "performing basic operations consistently and fast under any conditions" = muscle memory. Lot of time. And since training that with guns requires some amount of actual shooting it's not cheap either. Of course some of that will carry over to other platforms even bullpups but the niggle is there.
To give an example of muscle memory/network effects in an utterly different area: keyboards. QWERTY is provably suboptimal for English language usage or even code. It's this weird legacy thing from typewriters, in part based on mechanical limitations that stopped existing with the first computer ever invented. Way back in the 90s I did have a spell where I learned Dvorak and then Colemak. And they were improvements for language typing. But they were hard to use even then let alone a decade later because I have so much muscle memory around all sorts of system and application short cuts. I can touch type very fast as well. Trying to use a non-standard keyboard layout is hard, constant niggles and swimming upstream, and I decided not worth it for my usage. Traditional <> bullpups is actually lower barrier in a lot of ways but still easy to see it just being this constant itch rubbing someone the wrong way. They go to reach for the thing that Should Be There Damn It and it's not.
10 months ago
Anonymous
But that's not just a bullpup issue; that's everything with a different user interface than something else. Give an AK guy an AR and have him run drills and eventually he's going to reach over the gun for a charging handle that isn't there or fumble taking the gun off safe because the selector is completely different. A battle rifle guy might put his second shot into the dirt because he's expecting way more recoil than an AR can provide. A bullpup guy might steer his reload into the stock at some point.
The problem isn't that different guns exist, the problem is that people want "rifle shooting" to be a monolithic skill like in an RPG, and the most common expression of this is people becoming accustomed to the AR's user interface and then judging other rifles' "ergonomics" based on—how much like an AR the controls are.
10 months ago
Anonymous
As an AK guy that's been forced to do AR training for work, it's not that big of an issue. You realize you're fumbling in a fraction of a second and go back to the proper manual of arms for that gun. I only got yelled at when mortared an AR after it jammed. Apparently the buffer tubes are fwagile.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>You realize you're fumbling in a fraction of a second and go back to the proper manual of arms for that gun.
I know—I've done it myself—but it is a fraction of a second slower than just automatically doing it right the first time, and that's all the excuse that some people need to shit on a gun (in spite of it being a skill issue)
>Apparently the buffer tubes are fwagile.
common adjustable stock L
I love bullpups but >are there any (objective/technical) drawbacks?
Sure, and well known/discussed too.
- It's much harder to do a good trigger for one, fundamentally more complex. That's been solved in the last decade, not an impossibility, and it's not like mush military grade triggers somehow don't work obviously, but it's a drawback. Electronic firing may ultimately render this perfectly moot but that's not a thing yet.
- Very different lop which might be less optimal for many. I think this can be trained around but it's there.
- Ejection port being way back is an issue if you want ambi. There are various ways to engineer around this, but again that's the thing, it's more engineering. More complexity.
- Very different manual of arms. I suppose you could call this "subjective" or "skill issue", but muscle memory is really important. If someone has decades under their belt with AR, switching to something radically different IS absolutely a real issue and reasonably so. Obviously someone staring out brand new wouldn't care but the existing market is huge.
There are also some drawbacks that aren't fundamental but still reasonable. Due to the extra complexity and other factors, while there are reasonably old bullpup designs the modern explosion of interest and new modern models is quite recent. They also aren't standardized pattern. That means the 3rd party market is much weaker. You can't customize as much. They're less refined. They're more expensive. It's still "early days" by the pace of the gun industry. You may have a harder time getting them serviced 3rd party.
How much that matters to you vs the strengths is totally subjective but stupid to pretend network effects aren't real.
>Don't care, still like em.
I like em too. I wasn't saying you should care, but other anon asked for drawbacks so there they are. Personally I'm fine with the tradeoffs, but I also understand why the majority wouldn't be. And I can also easily think of things I really wish existed and seem like they should exist (like a 300bo Micron) that don't yet. It's like a lot of "early adopter" stuff, you're getting something newer and cool with unique strengths, but less polished, less 3rd party, less niches covered, more expensive.
I think in another 5-10 years it'll really be down to taste and maybe cost, there will be multiple good no-caveat options just like with ARs, and perhaps even some cheaper-ok choices too.
Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree. The only one that really hasn't so far is lack of an adjustable stock. AS' are pretty much mandatory for new service rifles now.
I think the way around this is to use a falling/sliding breech block (picrel), where the breech moves vertically or horizontally instead of backwards. Then you don't need any space behind the magwell and you can fit an adjustable stock.
>Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree
Sure, but not necessarily as baselines yet if that makes sense. We're definitely out of the prototype and 1.0 stages of bullpup development with current ones, they've had real refinement, key challenges have been overcome at least piecemeal. It's 2.x now. But we're not yet at the point where you can just pick any random $1500+ rifle and expect it to be pretty decent in all respects, instead each has things it's solved well and things it lags. Great triggers oob can be done, but not every one has a great trigger oob. Ambi friendly eject can be done, but not each one does, and there is no settled approach. And accuracy in the semi-auto ones has lagged, though often that's one of the final things to really get polished.
So definitely not "bleeding edge", or "alpha/beta tester", maybe even "early adopter" is a little unfair. But still a decent ways away from "mainstream" let alone "conservative". Fun to see them evolving though. If nothing else, the diversity and lack of standards and universal accepted approach also means there is a lot of room to try really different stuff even if some of it fails.
Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree. The only one that really hasn't so far is lack of an adjustable stock. AS' are pretty much mandatory for new service rifles now.
I think the way around this is to use a falling/sliding breech block (picrel), where the breech moves vertically or horizontally instead of backwards. Then you don't need any space behind the magwell and you can fit an adjustable stock.
Here's an example of a horizontal moving breech: The "Smerch" bullpup prototype. It uses a "hinge block", where the breechblock is attached to a hinge, and swings sideways after firing.
>if you want ambi.
Anecdotal, but keeping dominant eye/hand is more common in use outside of niche close quarters things. But if you're doing those niche things more barrel/velocity for less overall length negotiating indoors + something like an RDB rear ejection is very handy.
>Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree
Sure, but not necessarily as baselines yet if that makes sense. We're definitely out of the prototype and 1.0 stages of bullpup development with current ones, they've had real refinement, key challenges have been overcome at least piecemeal. It's 2.x now. But we're not yet at the point where you can just pick any random $1500+ rifle and expect it to be pretty decent in all respects, instead each has things it's solved well and things it lags. Great triggers oob can be done, but not every one has a great trigger oob. Ambi friendly eject can be done, but not each one does, and there is no settled approach. And accuracy in the semi-auto ones has lagged, though often that's one of the final things to really get polished.
So definitely not "bleeding edge", or "alpha/beta tester", maybe even "early adopter" is a little unfair. But still a decent ways away from "mainstream" let alone "conservative". Fun to see them evolving though. If nothing else, the diversity and lack of standards and universal accepted approach also means there is a lot of room to try really different stuff even if some of it fails.
https://i.imgur.com/EUIw3Qy.gif
Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree. The only one that really hasn't so far is lack of an adjustable stock. AS' are pretty much mandatory for new service rifles now.
I think the way around this is to use a falling/sliding breech block (picrel), where the breech moves vertically or horizontally instead of backwards. Then you don't need any space behind the magwell and you can fit an adjustable stock.
Both length of pull and mush mechanical triggers should be non-issues with electronic triggers; grips & triggers will be modular, it's just a question of cost and bad laws holding back small arms development massively.
you can tell from the section of barrel in front of the M203 cut. he probably said 16" because the flash hider is pinned & welded therefore making it legally 16". the RDB wouldn't have the flash hider included in the barrel length because it's not permanently attached and therefore the numbers aren't comparable. the barrel length difference is even more than you claim it is. not trying to be a shitter just letting you know you are underselling your argument.
>section of barrel in front of the M203 cut
when are the US going to drop that feature? everything is on rail these days.
it would also allow for a longer gas tube.
instead of having a wooden or plastic club on your gun, the sole purpose of which is to punch your shoulder, you leave it off, and let the gun punch your shoulder without a club, so it's shorter
NO ONE is going to be swapping grots
ARgays will leave it in the AR config and bullpupgays will leave it as a bullpup anyone saying otherwise is actually damaged
People with MDRs and MDRXes that were either good from the factory or were made good through DT's warranty process seem to like theirs, but as an 00s kid I still think the SCAR is cooler.
you can, but goddamn it would suck. fricking hate fin grips, thank god that AWB charges are basically tack-on only at this point (unenforced everywhere)
Just because a state bans it doesn't mean you can't get it. Use your brain.
I just got denied being able to buy ammo in this shithole. I just moved back here and I'm appalled the ammo restrictions have held up for 3 years ffs. They require a passport to purchase them, their own state ID/DL isn't enough apparently. It's obviously just an infringement. How much of a chance does an average person have in suing the state for bullshit like this?
I'm not sure what it looks like field stripped, but you could do receiver only DRoS. Or you could also just take off the grip for the DRoS.
After picking up you could fin it if you really want to stay compliant and it's really easy to screw on and off a kydex wrap. I will say that I haven't been to a range that asked about compliance before in the past few years. I've only been bothered by faculty about it once and it was at Riverside Indoor Shooting Range. Black guy working in the front counter insisted that standard caps were illegal to use and kept finger fricking my blocked 30 round length pmags. Never went back again. Warrior one isn't too far of a drive from there. Something about that part that attracts fudds.
They're expensive compared to cheap ARs because cheap ARs are cheap. They're expensive compared to what you remember a WASR-10 costing twenty years ago because that's a budget AK made on tooling that was given to Cugir for free by the Soviets and it was 20 years ago.
They're not expensive at all in comparison to a "premium" or "duty grade" AR like a DDM4 or what serviceable AKs actually cost these days.
It has a better than the other semi auto bullpups out there. Have had no issues with the micron since its just a simple side eject. the carry handle is off some crappy tristar shotgun. Wish someone would make an actual extra long carry handle that allows optic mouning
Based I remember you fellow MDR owner, you have that custom cut back handguard on your Micron. I'd have micron ordered tomorrow if they did one in 300bo. I want a 300bo Micron as my semi and a 300wm SRS as my long range gun.
nice desert tech, how is it compared to other bullpups? also what's the carryhandle u got on there
>how is it compared to other bullpups
nta but they're quite nice if you get a good one and are willing to put money into it, and annoying if you end up on the QC carousel. The DT 308 barrels are pretty shit, other calibers are fine. You can solve that with money by buying an ES barrel which turns an already very expensive bullpup into a super expensive one. The included handguard is crap and the attach mechanism isn't great so you'll need to get 3rd party again if you want anything on there that holds zero. They have been steadily improving though and can do things no other one can (again via 3rd party for $$$$), but for OOB reliability a israelitegun or one of the pre-manufacturer-shift Augs would be better.
I like mine and at the same time can't really recommend it wholeheartedly. Maybe in another year or two.
A cheap Wilson one from Walmart. I considered trying again with a bigger bag from Dick's or wherever—it'd be a simple matter of bringing a tape measure, finding a 29" racquet, and finding a bag it fits in—but I never followed up on it since the novelty of carrying my rifle around in a totally-not-sus-at-all tennis racquet bag isn't worth spending, at this point, very close to the cost of a normal gun bag like
https://www.saviorequipment.com/collections/rifle-bags/products/american-classic-shorty-double-rifle-case?variant=43262191796477
that I could use as a range bag on rifle days and honestly wouldn't attract that much more attention from anyone not looking at every single bag they see and wondering if it has a rifle in it.
I'm looking at the racket case because I unfortunately have to live in an ultra liberal area due to work, and their is a tennis court that is on my apartment complex. I would also like to avoid people even knowing I own a gun, since its a high crime area. Thanks for the advice tho, I'll go bring a tape measure with me to the local dicks and see what I can find.
It's spendy, but Crye Precision's EXP2100 is fairly nondescript (apart from only being available in black, Ranger green, coyote, and Multicam) and will accommodate a broken-down AUG or AR just fine while still mostly looking like a (relatively large) commuter backpack, or an assembled AUG/Mk18/etc. with all the expansion gussets...expanded. Large duffel bags like Patagonia's Black Hole will also work—the Patagonia in particular has the value-added of having a huge Patagonia logo on the side, so the ultralibs will think you're one of them, maybe
10 months ago
Anonymous
hmmm maybe. Not sure I want to blow 300 on a crye, but the idea of a backpack sounds like a viable option, and I might be able to use one of my smaller packs instead of getting something new entirely.
I have this exact one, I’m not sure if anything has changed in the internal dimensions of the design as I got mine like eight years ago but it’s the exact same as the pics down to the stitching pattern on the zipper pulls. My 16” barrel AUG is the biggest gun I have that will fit at 28 1/4” long, and it’s a squeeze to close the zipper. Anything longer will be harder to fit and anything shorter will fit no problem.
Info is much appreciated. Thanks for the help senpai.
I have this exact one, I’m not sure if anything has changed in the internal dimensions of the design as I got mine like eight years ago but it’s the exact same as the pics down to the stitching pattern on the zipper pulls. My 16” barrel AUG is the biggest gun I have that will fit at 28 1/4” long, and it’s a squeeze to close the zipper. Anything longer will be harder to fit and anything shorter will fit no problem.
The maker posted a video of himself firing it on reddit so it seems to be legit. I don't think he's released the files yet but it sounds like he is going to at some point so for me it's something to look forward to
the redditor responsible for this sweet little fricklet pretends to think that he's a better designer and engineer than a whole team of seasoned HK gunmakers to farm updoots from other redditors, so in that respect it's laughably gay and so is he. On the other hand more bullpups are great and cottage industry bullpups are double great
The intention, which you can still see in marketing videos Steyr has on YouTube, is that the same host gun can easily be swapped from rifle to carbine to LMG to 40mm platform without tools.
What else would you call it? I mean, there are a lot of other technical terms for weapon functions, so it's not as if we couldn't find a term that would both easy to remember and be technically correct.
I want somebody *cough cough Kel-Tec* to come up with a 9mm downward ejecting bullpup. Ideally a lightweight telescoping bolt with a CMMG style radial delay action. You could still have an adjustable stock since the bolt travel is such a short distance. SBR'd to like 10" with a can would be a great PDW.
I know nobody would actually make it since moronic laws would require a huge barrel to meet OAL requirements, but damn it'd be cool.
5.56 is shit, so the aug is defacto shit
.300 blacked is supposedly in the works
1:7 barrels are limited runs from USMs
1:8 barrels don't exist afaik
there are very few viable mlok handguards for the a3m1's gay front qd point
other than 3rd-party support, it's a clear winner over gay15s
>there are very few viable mlok handguards for the a3m1's gay front qd point
Arid Dev 35- and 40-slot top rails dropping early August, Mlok handguards that attach to the rails TBA
Not even trying to be a dick but who is even using bullpups anymore? The chinks? I always thought they were all ugly as sin and they’ve always seemed to be unreliable until the israelite tavor so that says a lot
>Not even trying to be a dick but who is even using bullpups anymore
More and more civilians. >The chinks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_AUG#Users >I always thought they were all ugly as sin
Well, your taste is shit and my subjective opinion that they look a million times better than ARs is objectively correct but whatever. >and they’ve always seemed to be unreliable until the israelite tavor so that says a lot
Aug wasn't unreliable, neither was the F2k for that matter even though it was shitty to shoot.
Other complaints to be made but not that. They're just a lot newer and the big explosion of development and interest has only been in the last few decades. Come back in 20 years I guess.
Right now I have two MDRs and like them and have spent a lot of time with and plan to purchase an SRS. I have used tavor and aug enough to have an opinion and shot an RDB/RFB and they seemed neat but one mag is whatever. Ask other anons, like this gentleman
https://i.imgur.com/VqdYF6p.jpg
Any RFB enjoyers
on those. >Do you recommend an MDR
No. >What do you recommend
Recommend you do your research. Which kind of sounds like a dick, but while I love bullpups and think they will be clear winners in another 5 years right now every single one of them has caveats and none of them are cheap either, it's not like it's some $500 thing that can be just rangetoy.
Tavor: overall solid and reliable in all respects if not particularly innovative. Not great triggers oob but easily rectified with 3rd party pack so doesn't matter. But 2-3moa accuracy is a bummer. Also mediocre suppression platform, though super low backpressure cans are improving this.
Aug: used to be an easy default, same trigger thing as above, again easily rectified. Used to be bad suppression but now that too can be rectified with readily available plugs plus good cans. Unfortunately they switched manufacturers so now, like, post-2016 or something ones are cracking in half. So have to get old one and it's a mess.
MDR: awesome tech, awesome flexibility, great oob trigger. bad: $$$$$$$$ more so then any of the others. Bad fixed gas block, heavy for 5.56, mediocre oob accuracy in 308 really picky with ammo, 1-4moa depending, has historically had bad QC. If buying one opposite of Aug, make absolutely sure to get a brand new one, they just made a bunch more improvements this past January.
RDB/RFB: good trigger oob. Lots like them. bad(??): downward eject seems cool but huge pita to clear if it does jam.
bonus: SRS/HTI: zero complaints of any kind whatsoever in terms of raw capability, compact great trigger sub-moa hole drillers. But they're bolt-action and probably not what you meant at all. Bad: very expensive, even for serious ELR platforms.
So if you've got the dosh and time just really really want to get into bullpups now there are solid great guns. But there's nothing that's just perfect for whatever. Like MDR Micron is super cool, but 5.56 only, no FE even as a choice, due to their stupid fixed gas. You can take any of those guns, imagine a few changes and it'd be a "go for it!" Or imagine them just fixing QC. And I sound negative despite loving bullpups but I don't want to lie to any anons and be moron fanboy over that much dosh. Also support at least for DT and from what I've heard Steyr is solid so even if you get a lemon you can get it fixed in the end. MDR has had a solid warranty. But the problem is I needed that warranty for one of them. First was thousands of rounds and going strong. Second broke after one single shot. One. Fricking. Shot. And then they took care of me, paid shipping both ways, had it fixed in 2 weeks even over a holiday, and through in upgraded 2023 charging handle change for me. Then a week after I got it back they called me on the phone (I'd done all the support req via email) to check in on how it was running for me. I can't say fairer then that in terms of warranty support right? That's good service.
But it still broke completely after one shot and then was 3.5 weeks to again. Is that something you're willing to risk with a $2500 gun? And some people have apparently had QC circles, where a bunch of stuff gets fixed, then they find a new problem, and a bunch more gets fixed, and then finally end up with a good gun. So it gets there in the end at no extra cost, but that's kind of shitty? If you like the gun a lot like I do and have other stuff to shoot and are like "I'll roll the dice and if golden gun right off great but if it takes a year with months of support back and forth ok with that too" fine but I feel like most shouldn't have to deal with that.
So if you've got the dosh and time just really really want to get into bullpups now there are solid great guns. But there's nothing that's just perfect for whatever. Like MDR Micron is super cool, but 5.56 only, no FE even as a choice, due to their stupid fixed gas. You can take any of those guns, imagine a few changes and it'd be a "go for it!" Or imagine them just fixing QC. And I sound negative despite loving bullpups but I don't want to lie to any anons and be moron fanboy over that much dosh. Also support at least for DT and from what I've heard Steyr is solid so even if you get a lemon you can get it fixed in the end. MDR has had a solid warranty. But the problem is I needed that warranty for one of them. First was thousands of rounds and going strong. Second broke after one single shot. One. Fricking. Shot. And then they took care of me, paid shipping both ways, had it fixed in 2 weeks even over a holiday, and through in upgraded 2023 charging handle change for me. Then a week after I got it back they called me on the phone (I'd done all the support req via email) to check in on how it was running for me. I can't say fairer then that in terms of warranty support right? That's good service.
But it still broke completely after one shot and then was 3.5 weeks to again. Is that something you're willing to risk with a $2500 gun? And some people have apparently had QC circles, where a bunch of stuff gets fixed, then they find a new problem, and a bunch more gets fixed, and then finally end up with a good gun. So it gets there in the end at no extra cost, but that's kind of shitty? If you like the gun a lot like I do and have other stuff to shoot and are like "I'll roll the dice and if golden gun right off great but if it takes a year with months of support back and forth ok with that too" fine but I feel like most shouldn't have to deal with that.
So yeah thank for reading my gay blog.
Bro what? You talk about how bullpups are clearly the future but you have bullpups that can’t even get through one shot. This is unironically why ARs have been on the moon and will be on Mars… because I can pick up some shitty psa for less than $400 and the worst that will happen is a few minor malfunctions and printing like 4 moa. Not to mention ARs are very aesthetic and if you deny that then you are clearly just being salty. I don’t like AKs and have owned them but I can easily admit they have a certain aesthetic vibe.
I sure hope you're only pretending to be moronic or a stupid zoomie. >you say a new design is the future but it's not perfect yet like this other design which had tons of flaws and issues but 30 more years to get polished and refined vs something that was introduced brand new in the last 5-6 years
Yeah.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Not surprised the person who would post
Right now I have two MDRs and like them and have spent a lot of time with and plan to purchase an SRS. I have used tavor and aug enough to have an opinion and shot an RDB/RFB and they seemed neat but one mag is whatever. Ask other anons, like this gentleman [...] on those. >Do you recommend an MDR
No. >What do you recommend
Recommend you do your research. Which kind of sounds like a dick, but while I love bullpups and think they will be clear winners in another 5 years right now every single one of them has caveats and none of them are cheap either, it's not like it's some $500 thing that can be just rangetoy.
Tavor: overall solid and reliable in all respects if not particularly innovative. Not great triggers oob but easily rectified with 3rd party pack so doesn't matter. But 2-3moa accuracy is a bummer. Also mediocre suppression platform, though super low backpressure cans are improving this.
Aug: used to be an easy default, same trigger thing as above, again easily rectified. Used to be bad suppression but now that too can be rectified with readily available plugs plus good cans. Unfortunately they switched manufacturers so now, like, post-2016 or something ones are cracking in half. So have to get old one and it's a mess.
MDR: awesome tech, awesome flexibility, great oob trigger. bad: $$$$$$$$ more so then any of the others. Bad fixed gas block, heavy for 5.56, mediocre oob accuracy in 308 really picky with ammo, 1-4moa depending, has historically had bad QC. If buying one opposite of Aug, make absolutely sure to get a brand new one, they just made a bunch more improvements this past January.
RDB/RFB: good trigger oob. Lots like them. bad(??): downward eject seems cool but huge pita to clear if it does jam.
bonus: SRS/HTI: zero complaints of any kind whatsoever in terms of raw capability, compact great trigger sub-moa hole drillers. But they're bolt-action and probably not what you meant at all. Bad: very expensive, even for serious ELR platforms.
So if you've got the dosh and time just really really want to get into bullpups now there are solid great guns. But there's nothing that's just perfect for whatever. Like MDR Micron is super cool, but 5.56 only, no FE even as a choice, due to their stupid fixed gas. You can take any of those guns, imagine a few changes and it'd be a "go for it!" Or imagine them just fixing QC. And I sound negative despite loving bullpups but I don't want to lie to any anons and be moron fanboy over that much dosh. Also support at least for DT and from what I've heard Steyr is solid so even if you get a lemon you can get it fixed in the end. MDR has had a solid warranty. But the problem is I needed that warranty for one of them. First was thousands of rounds and going strong. Second broke after one single shot. One. Fricking. Shot. And then they took care of me, paid shipping both ways, had it fixed in 2 weeks even over a holiday, and through in upgraded 2023 charging handle change for me. Then a week after I got it back they called me on the phone (I'd done all the support req via email) to check in on how it was running for me. I can't say fairer then that in terms of warranty support right? That's good service.
But it still broke completely after one shot and then was 3.5 weeks to again. Is that something you're willing to risk with a $2500 gun? And some people have apparently had QC circles, where a bunch of stuff gets fixed, then they find a new problem, and a bunch more gets fixed, and then finally end up with a good gun. So it gets there in the end at no extra cost, but that's kind of shitty? If you like the gun a lot like I do and have other stuff to shoot and are like "I'll roll the dice and if golden gun right off great but if it takes a year with months of support back and forth ok with that too" fine but I feel like most shouldn't have to deal with that.
So yeah thank for reading my gay blog.
Is saying what you’re saying lol
In any case your failure to realize that the govt was the one who fricked up the ar in vietnam by not chrome lining the chambers and bores because they were too cheap. This was 90% of the issues they had then. Bullpups repeatedly have the same issues that never get fixed because of the design in itself and nothing else. The ar is immortal and is literally the most reliable semi auto rifle platform to ever exist. If not for the gay us govt tarnishing it’s reputation out the gate because of incompetence I would imagine that we would’ve been where we are now 20 years ago aka literally every country copying the AR platform and moving away from bullpups.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah you're one of those gays, why are you even here not in your /arg/ circle jerk? You're already convinced you have achieved absolute perfection and no further innovation is possible or desirable. And that's fine. Off you go.
https://i.imgur.com/lPiGehU.png
>mediocre oob accuracy in 308
The funny thing about DT and accuracy is that they make capable, good barrels or at least somebody does if their bolt actions are anything to go by as they "promise" 0.5 MOA and I've heard nothing but good about those guns. I suppose they just don't give a damn about their semiauto barrels and the only way to really replace the MDRX barrel is to go to ES Tactical with another thousand plus in hand for an unguaranteed increase to performance and also if you don't like stainless steel then oh well
Why hasn't anyone just made a bullpup that uses AR-15/10 barrels? I'll never know
>The funny thing about DT and accuracy is that they make capable, good barrels or at least somebody does if their bolt actions are anything to go by as they "promise" 0.5 MOA and I've heard nothing but good about those guns.
That's the SRS and HTI I was talking about. And yes, they are superb in every way. Just expensive. But they deliver.
The more pertinent example though is ES Tactical, who make quality MDR replacement barrel kits (and they'll do it all sorts of wild calibers too, want a 450 bushmaster bullpup? You can). Their 308 is vastly more accurate and consistent then DT's, and is very close to the price DT wants too. So it's strange. Though also again, some of it is a bad design choice, nothing even to do with the barrel. And factory 6.5sneed barrels in MDRXs are decent too. So who knows what's going on there right now. Maybe they'll do a gen3 that finally makes it perfect.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Nah dude I was and still am open to getting a bullpup but crazy’s like you turn me off because you aren’t living in reality. Idk why whether you just don’t know much, you like being contrarian, or you’re trying to justify your shitty rifle that couldn’t shoot one round. Whatever it is, idc. I’ll probably pick up a bullpup one day if it’s cheap af in my lgs
10 months ago
Anonymous
It's a range toy. Don't buy a bullpup expecting anything different.
10 months ago
Anonymous
OK so you're just an absolute fricking illiterate moron. Again, your place is /arg/. >but crazy’s like you turn me off because you aren’t living in reality
Literally listing upsides and downsides of a gun with total honesty makes me a crazy not living in reality? Holy FRICK are you stupid. >or you’re trying to justify your shitty rifle that couldn’t shoot one round
And has since repair shot a thousand rounds no problem? Or the first one that was good for thousands of rounds and no problem yet at all? Brand new gun platforms doing new stuff can have issues and cost more, the question is whether someone thinks the advantages are worth that or not. This isn't complicated. I love the feel of the gun, the manual of arms, running it, and I have a fully suppressed 16" barrel gun that is shorter in OAL then your unsuppressed AR and with better center of gravity. It also cost a lot more and still isn't quite as accurate. But that's not some fundamental to the design, hence why I think long term bullpups will get ironed out. At the end of the day, it's a full length barrel in a more compact design. Some people will always like that. >I’ll probably pick up a bullpup one day if it’s cheap af in my lgs
Nah don't bother.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>listing upsides and downsides of a rifle makes me crazy
when you neglect the fact that the downsides far outweigh the upsides? Yes.
Your gun was rendered totally inoperable and required you to send it for warranty work on the first round. Am I missing something here? >nah don’t bother
Ok you’re right I’d rather buy ammo
It's a range toy. Don't buy a bullpup expecting anything different.
Kek thanks
10 months ago
Anonymous
>when you neglect the fact that the downsides far outweigh the upsides?
I neglected nothing you fricking moron. I literally didn't recommend it and said do the research. >Your gun was rendered totally inoperable and required you to send it for warranty work on the first round. Am I missing something here?
That the other gun of the same model was great from the beginning and still is, that I paid not a single cent, that they gave me a free upgrade at the same time, and that it's been fine since? Why should that disqualify it completely if I like it enough otherwise? Lots of other /k/ommandos have various bullpups and have had no problems at all that I saw. >Ok you’re right I’d rather buy ammo
Good. Make sure you never get any duds either because then you'll have to never buy that ammo again apparently.
Might be post-2017 I don't remember the exact date. But they switched manufacturers to save money or something and now receivers are splitting in half.
10 months ago
Anonymous
damn thats fricked up im glad i have one made in 2011
10 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah you're fine that's way before.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It’s from 2020ish, covid era. You can look inside the stock for a date code for a date on your stock, but not all stocks will have a date code. The first two digits of the serial number designate year of production up until 2020 when they made and sold a ton of rifles so if your serial begins with 19USA or earlier your rifle is fine.
10 months ago
Anonymous
That was only one batch of plastic and affected fewer than 1000 guns. If someone has one of the affected stocks it won't take long to find out, and when they do, Steyr will replace it for free.
It's not a serious reason to avoid the platform.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>That was only one batch of plastic and affected fewer than 1000 guns. If someone has one of the affected stocks it won't take long to find out, and when they do, Steyr will replace it for free. >It's not a serious reason to avoid the platform.
Thanks anon, good to know more details. It wasn't clear when I read about it the scope of the issue. Though I think it'd be better if Steyr just had a list of serial numbers or a form to check serial numbers with.
The funny thing about DT and accuracy is that they make capable, good barrels or at least somebody does if their bolt actions are anything to go by as they "promise" 0.5 MOA and I've heard nothing but good about those guns. I suppose they just don't give a damn about their semiauto barrels and the only way to really replace the MDRX barrel is to go to ES Tactical with another thousand plus in hand for an unguaranteed increase to performance and also if you don't like stainless steel then oh well
Why hasn't anyone just made a bullpup that uses AR-15/10 barrels? I'll never know
I think this handguard looks sweet and it almost makes me want to get one but frick thats a lot of money for a design with some teething issues still. Im also not sure how useful an integrated bipod is but the rifle looks pretty scifi so whatever.
The proportions kind of frick me up. I know this is a 20" but it looks huge.
IIRC it's a touch lighter than a Harris or Atlas bipod attached to the normal handguard, and if you've got the bipod out you're probably not grasping the handguard, and vice-versa so it makes sense to me. Same principle as the handguard/bipod on the L2A1.
Lighter can be good. I guess i meant i dont know how useful it is over an external bipod like a harris. The whole thing looks so much slicker than the default forend. The stock rifle is kind of ugly.
It's definitely expensive, and it's not perfect. They decided to have the mechanism for the legs interior at the end rather than have the hg be a little oblong, which means it will not wrap a can like the normal ones will. The 16" version also only has a single mlok on the side which is kinda worthless, I drilled mine out. And since the legs are integral the length depends on the handguard length, so the 16" version has shorter legs than the 20" version, usable in general with 10/20 but not 30 rounds and sometimes rough terrain has to be considered.
It's slick though. It definitely feels premium, everything is very smooth, and it's been plenty durable. Bipod is useful with 30cal. But definitely an indulgence purchase behind other more important things.
Thats a good point about the length, i havent considered that. I feel like the short barrel looks better but the idea of a 20" in a compact form sounds nice too
A bipod's a bipod, for the most part. The BLK LBL's utility comes from the fact that it's integrated into the handguard so there's no need—no temptation—to remove it when you think you aren't going to need it, and when the legs are out their stowage slots function as giant ventilation holes for the barrel (I don't know homw much difference it actually makes, but it makes sense)
Its fun to minmax but really i think i just like it for the looks. Bipods and slings make every rifle better and im willing to die on this hill.
How good is the MDR as a .308 battle rifle? Is it better than an LR308?
No idea, i dont have one. Ive got a scar 17 though and id rate it as pretty good/10. The boot is the best stock, frick the haters.
>Thats a good point about the length, i havent considered that. I feel like the short barrel looks better but the idea of a 20" in a compact form sounds nice too
That's why I mentioned the wrapping bit. 20" with a 16" barrel and wrapping the first 3-4" of can would be perfect, look good, be practical and full utility. Earlier anon posted a wrapped micron [...] there, it's a slick way to go imo. Instead have to decide on a tradeoff. As someone with a 16 (20 didn't exist when I got it) I'd suggest that if you went for it to just suck it up and go 20, but also maybe just get the plain aluminum one instead (which also didn't exist when I got it) unless you have something you really want on the bottom besides a bipod.
I misunderstood what you meant by wrap around the can. Yeah a full length handguard around the can would be dope.
If i do ever pull the trigger i think id go with a 5.56 20" and build it up over time.
>Thats a good point about the length, i havent considered that. I feel like the short barrel looks better but the idea of a 20" in a compact form sounds nice too
That's why I mentioned the wrapping bit. 20" with a 16" barrel and wrapping the first 3-4" of can would be perfect, look good, be practical and full utility. Earlier anon posted a wrapped micron
https://i.imgur.com/1KnrS1J.jpg
I like mine
there, it's a slick way to go imo. Instead have to decide on a tradeoff. As someone with a 16 (20 didn't exist when I got it) I'd suggest that if you went for it to just suck it up and go 20, but also maybe just get the plain aluminum one instead (which also didn't exist when I got it) unless you have something you really want on the bottom besides a bipod.
It's definitely expensive, and it's not perfect. They decided to have the mechanism for the legs interior at the end rather than have the hg be a little oblong, which means it will not wrap a can like the normal ones will. The 16" version also only has a single mlok on the side which is kinda worthless, I drilled mine out. And since the legs are integral the length depends on the handguard length, so the 16" version has shorter legs than the 20" version, usable in general with 10/20 but not 30 rounds and sometimes rough terrain has to be considered.
It's slick though. It definitely feels premium, everything is very smooth, and it's been plenty durable. Bipod is useful with 30cal. But definitely an indulgence purchase behind other more important things.
>How good is the MDR as a .308 battle rifle? Is it better than an LR308?
LR308 is significantly more accurate without extra investment, though MDR can reasonably manage 1-2moa so not like it's useless if you wanted to hunt with it even. But it's no hole driller. LR308 obviously massively cheaper, and with cheaper and more widely available custom options on top. They're both about the same weight. MDR is of course much shorter (like 8-10", not insignificant) and with weight balance back towards your body which in practice makes it easier to keep up longer and steadier. MDR has extremely flexible multicaliber capability, but if you don't actually care about that and just want to run 308 then of course that isn't worth anything.
So I'd say no, on balance LR308 is a better 308 BR. 308 is probably MDRs weakest caliber oddly enough, it's much better in 6.5. I like using the MDR more but that's personal taste. And if you really wanted to try a 308 bullpup Tavor 7 is another option and can also be found for dramatically less than an MDR.
All my friends telling me bullpups are a mistake, but I think they r pretty cool. Call me basic but I love th AUG and the Famas. Im not sure how specifically and in what situation are they better than M16's, ak's and AR's, but im sure there have to be situations where bullpups are better. Tell me!
they're short and ergonomics are great
the weight is to the rear of the rifle so when you hold it up it actually doesn't feel like anything since you support the weight with your chest
like you see beanpole skinnygays here complain that their AR is 6 pounds while a tavor is closer to 9 but feels like 3
it means you're a moron who can't read
the tavors weight is all on you, you barely feel it
with your AR your need your cuck cope handle because there's more weight at the front of your platform, even more so if you have a quadrail or something
I get that but weight doesn’t just disappear because it’s somewhere else. Sorry your twink arms aren’t strong enough to should a normal functioning rifle. Maybe try hitting the gym and getting ride of your shitty gun. This whole thread is just cope. Even the pro bullpup gays talk about how their bull pups don’t work
lmao tl;dr
you're seething over being called a twinklet
10 months ago
Anonymous
>your brain on bullpups
You didn’t even call me a twink dumbass lmao you’re the bullpup coper though?
How’s the rifle that couldn’t even get one round down range without breaking?
10 months ago
Anonymous
no one cares twinklet
10 months ago
Anonymous
samegay
im assuming this is your thread
pretty sad ngl
>i get that
oh so he gets the line about the weight distr- >but weight doesn't just disappear because it's somewhere else
you acknowledge the point, but you deflect being wrong with a shield of moronation. you are beyond saving
10 months ago
Anonymous
Stop samegayging. No amount of seething is going to make your bullpup better. It’s unironically over. I hate to be the one to tell you this
I like my trek 22 but live in commiefornia so can't really get any cool bullpups anyway. Considered the rdb hunter but had better things to spend money on. Wish the atrax actually made it to market but such is life.
Tavors don't count as bullpups. Missing the point. people who buys tavors and consider themselves "bullpup likers" are the same kids who would hang out with you when you made kites and rafts and dens out of bits of shit and had adventures, and they'd try to impress you with their R/C planes their parents bought them. Frick off Tavor numales
>try to have a nice thread to enjoy brappups >ARgays NEED to remind everyone about their superiority
I once thought ARgays had worms in their brain given their behavior, but I realize now that isn't the case. They have no brain, its just worms
Just picked up my Tavor 7 yesterday.
my manticore parts should be in this week/weekend. got the buttpad and the hammerhead forend.
Should be going shooting in just a bit. I hope it isn't too gassy, but every other complaint I've heard about it thus far has seemed pretty exaggerated.
It isn't THAT heavy
Nice, hope you have fun and report back with your impressions, maybe a few 100yd groups if you can. In /brg/ if nowhere else if this thread is ded. >gassy
Do you plan to suppress it? They aren't great suppressor platforms though not unworkable with the right can. But if it's just bare or muzzle brake or something don't see why it would give you any trouble.
got to try it out for about 100 rds
I like it
didn't like the stock buttpad but later this afternoon the manticore parts came in and I spent the evening putting em on.
broke the damn corby bolt that holds the forend on, but fortunately it was one of the only parts in stock on IWI's website so I ordered a couple.
love the way this hammerhead forend looks.
hopefully that pin comes in soon and can shoot it some more.
sry no pics of groups but I did get my holosun sighted in on steel at 100yds.
Surely it'd be easier to get a bigger-than-the-bag sheet of closed-cell foam and hot wire–cut the circumference to fit the bag and a PS90-sized hole in the middle.
nta and I don't have an Aug, only shot one once. But what would be the issue with it there? Get one with a rail, stick an NV friendly optic on top, maybe the suppressor plug and a can. What else is it missing? I can't see what it'd be worse than any other rifle. Genuinely curious.
Those rubber floor mats are really handy. Got a huge stack of 'em for next to nothing from a barn getting rid of them whatever I could fit in my truck and wish I'd gone back for more.
I never got it either then learned why a year ago and holy frick is it dumb. They have this stupid meme 1 rail section red dot, and the idea was that you would buy one of these for each barrel assembly kit and since you'd zero each one to a rail piece part of the kit you'd be able to have an rds right away without needing to zero. That's it. And the president apparently thinks that's the coolest thing.
Fricking stupid. It's the one major glaring design flaw in the rifle. Quality control is important for sure but that can be improved or one can go through support enough times, it's not a fundamental flaw. But that really sucks, is a major part of the reason the accuracy is so picky, why there is no 300bo micron. God damn it.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>why there is no 300bo micron
surely they could just do the fake dissipator thing and put the real gas block somewhere reasonable while keeping the "front sight" where it is
10 months ago
Anonymous
>surely they could just fix their stupid moron meme choice there into something non-moronic in a future gen3 rifle
Yes. But will they? And when?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>But that really sucks, is a major part of the reason the accuracy is so picky
Wait, is that single section of rail a contributor to why the gun underperforms for price? I've always figured that the MDRX was built to be a service rifle so a 2-3 MOA on ball was the norm
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Wait, is that single section of rail a contributor to why the gun underperforms for price?
It seems likely, or rather that the gas is fixed to it. A float block, avoiding that coupling, being able to optimize properly for cartridge can make a significant difference. You can't design any sort of aftermarket system for a variable block so that you could change the impact of dwell time.
Pic related, if you actually look at detailed testing of the thing it's not so much that the MDRX is merely "not that accurate" but that it's WEIRD, super variable. Like there's a bunch of ammo there, perfectly decent stuff, that's over 5moa, way worse than M80, and then there's also a bunch that's 2-3, a certain amount that is 1-2, and even one that's sub-moa. It's all over the map even for the same grain. I don't know though if anyone ever did any detailed testing with the gas "turned off" (ie, plugging the thing so that it basically becomes single shot) thus totally eliminating that variable, but it's a factor for other rifles and the mechanism makes sense. And again the ammo vs accuracy map is odd. It's not like it's just consistently 1-2 or 2-3 with any decent ammo.
10 months ago
Anonymous
How does the 556 version compare and do you figure the press fitted gas block changed anything?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>How does the 556 version compare
It's clearly better based on just smattering of tests, so is 6.5 for that matter (though reports still vary relatively speaking there and expectations are diff too). 308 is the least accurate for the MDR. But I don't have a comparably broad comparison for 5.56 on hand. >and do you figure the press fitted gas block changed anything?
I assume it'd be some improvement but I haven't seen an update. That of course is one of the issues with all these constant revisions, doing a bunch of comprehensive tests is a bunch of work and can't just be redone on a dime plus most of us simply won't have the changes. I mean, working hard to keep improving is massively better than letting it rot on the vine, but not as good as getting it right day 1. And it makes it hard for anyone to know what they're buying unless they get it direct brand new from DT.
At some point hopefully they'll finally get it fully polished, barrel of quality and locked down, dump that rail segment, better handguard attachment system, and then do a formal MDR gen 3 release (I dunno, "MDRZ" maybe? MDROmega? MDRXxX420XxX?) bundling everything up so that anyone buying one knows they're getting it all and that can be recharacterized.
10 months ago
Anonymous
What is that series ordered by? Obviously weight in the first instance but the second index? At first glance the series looks like it has a clear and regular oscillation, but then you realise that the order isn't listed and the oscillation might as well have been introduced by the author.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Not sure what you mean? It's just a bar graph with ammo by grain and then moa/muzzle energy for each side by side (ie, E=1/2mv^2 that's it). There's no ordering beyond that afaik. The main point was to try to get a feel for if there was any notable link to accuracy vs bullet weight or energy in the broad sense, like "heavier is worse". But as you can see didn't look that way at least with those tests.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>E=1/2mv^2
Energy does not equal 1 or 2 muzzle velocitys with 2 carrots!
I have a >Springfield vhs, no real complaints with it but have been wanting an aug. What am I missing out on?(other than aesthetics)
suppressor and nv are factors for me
>missing out on
Dunno enough about the Hellion/VHS-2 to say. Looks neat but while I've shot most of the others and have MDR I haven't had a chance with that one yet. >suppressor and nv are factors for me
Aug isn't a particularly awesome suppressor platform but it's not awful anymore either thanks to it no longer needing special unobtanium for it, there's a gas plug with suppressor bleed for like $110 (though often out of stock, grab it when you see it). The one I tried wasn't gasy either. That part is fine.
As far as NV same as
nta and I don't have an Aug, only shot one once. But what would be the issue with it there? Get one with a rail, stick an NV friendly optic on top, maybe the suppressor plug and a can. What else is it missing? I can't see what it'd be worse than any other rifle. Genuinely curious.
what do you mean by that? If you're just thinking in terms of attachments there are various good 3rd party rail/mlock options like that Manticore one or just getting an A3. Then you can stick on the same stuff as you would anything else.
I’m aware of the gas plug, I thought corvus was the only option for extended rail. For nv just looking for space for laser and pressure pad in a non moronic place, not a fan of taping a switch to the vfg
>I thought corvus was the only option for extended rail.
I think there's a few now, and the A3 native too. So yeah I think it'd be perfectly workable. You'd need to ask actual Aug anons if there is anything special to consider in terms of backpressure, though as a general rule with gas operated less is always better. If you already have a low bp can guess that doesn't even matter.
>americans ever adopting a bullpup as a service arm
Anon, you simply have to accept that bullpups are european exclusive weapons with non-european enthusiasts. The tech is cool but having to retrain soldier is too heckin' hard :~~*(
An unironic counterargument to the retraining thing is that the infantry gets like 80% replaced once every 4 years anyway, and most new recruits are young men without prior firearms training.
Why don't bullpup transfer bars operate in tension instead of compression? Surely pulling on a long, skinny rod would result in a cleaner transfer and better trigger pull than trying to push on that same rod
theyre so cool everyone with them is switching to the ar15
It's fine, I'll gladly take one off their hands
Too bad the coolest bullpups are Unobtainium
We should just reverse engineer the famas. Get every famas owner to measure various dimensions and use it to build new blueprints. Test a prototype to see if the gun works and tweak the design accordingly.
Or perhaps we ask the Croats nicely
I mean we already got the sequel, how hard would it be to ask them nicely to sell us their surplus rifles?
And while they're at it some of the integrated optics for the vhs2
I know they're probably shit but they look cool as frick so I don't care
I think famas gays want the real deal, not an ar-18 in a body kit. Considering the ones currently in the US go for $20,000, you could still do okay making new production guns to sell at $10,000
can we start a petition to get PSA to make clones of this instead of that stupid ass STG44 that doesn't even look like the real thing, is made of airsoft tier pot metal according to reports from non israelitetuber shills (though tbf it might just be because it's the display model) and is chambered in 5.56 for some reason?
ARs aren't as cool and we all fricking know it.
Folding stocks bro
Now you can get compact
Like if packed together in an APC with XM7s
>bro I can fold my AR now with an expensive piston upper, but it's still about what israeli space magic costs
and the thing everyone misses about this is that a bullpup is objectively better, still, because you can have a full length barrel and still be shorter than a carbine length AR.
Also, the Kel-Tec is under a grand and everyone who's shot one says they love it.
If it’s a piston AR, is it really an AR anymore?
I started with a stag15 and then picked up an A3. Reloading will always be a matter of just training.
Trigger is harder to get right when it's further away from the action, but the purple pack and aftermarket sears demonstrate that it's just a lack of drive for major manufacturers as their military contracts aren't as demanding for crisper triggers. IWI and Steyr could make the experience better by simply swapping out the factory polymer trigger with something with more bite and stronger trigger pack springs from the start rather than selling it as an aftermarket DLC.
The exact words of the creator of the purple pack when discussing drop safety were, "All bets are off". The thing is not safe.
>dropping your rifle
ishygddt
>With the safety on, we feel confident that it is safe up to a 2m drop on packed earth. With the safety off, all bets are off.
It's a good thing that people don't make a habit of shot putting a loaded aug with the safety off 8 ft onto the asphalt
>and stronger trigger pack springs from the start rather than selling it as an aftermarket DLC.
The red springs are lighter. Installing the red trigger spring is a downgrade unless you care more about trigger weight than trigger feel. The red hammer springs are good to go, though.
who the frick is "we", manlet.
>twinklet still seething
lmao
ARgays be gone
It's rent free real estate.
Because most people are stupid. Bullpups are objectively more space efficient and that can help with a lot of close range tactics. Plus comfy and looks cool. Grandpa guns look lame with the big cowboy stock hanging off the back.
in canada I can buy a tavor but ARs are illegal
shit is moronic but I'll take my bullpuppo any day
just email IWI or Norinco and convince them to export ARs to Canada and watch how fast that specific make and model gets an exception made for it
Didn't the leafs recently ban the QBZ?
I dunno but I really wish we could get all the chinese weapons into the country so I could see if they're any good. I know from Forgotten Weapons that the QBZ is a hard recoiling lemon, but I wanna see the conventional layout rifle they have now, as well as the optics they use and the performance of the chinese 5.8mm round.
You can sometimes find the PLA's acog knockoff on aliexpress but it's $900 or so, so no real point in buying it.
If the later variation military AUGs had a traditional fire selector and the ratworx trigger I think it'd be a lot better received.
Semi -> full in one trigger pull is fucning stupid.
The progressive trigger is more "ergonomic" once you're accustomed to it and you'll never get to shoot a select-fire AUG anyway.
As far as SA goes, the trigger is fine; the red trigger spring is actually a downgrade since it makes the trigger light and mushy instead of heavy and crisp (the reduced power hammer springs are g2g, though)
no im not
Why not turn the SIG MCX into a bullpup? Now you have an AR bullpup.
The AR15 was dropped for this gaudy hunk of shit with 2 charging handles. Goes to show how stupid America's weapons selection process is when the bullpup submission for NGSW was literally perfect.
Why are people still claiming the AR is relevant when it was dropped a year ago?
this new rifle still look like an AR clone.
Trying to make it look like an AR is probably how it ended up looking so goddamn ugly.
>bullpup submission for NGSW was literally perfect.
What was so special about it? And they kind of fricked themselves when they didn't submit a real machine gun
I don't get why they wanted a machine gun to go in the package. Feels kind of stupid to have all your armaments come from one manufacturer.
Anyway, the primary advantage of the R-277 is the polymer cartridge. Lighter, more reliable, and versatile. You can even convert existing GPMGs to fire it.
Instead those morons in the army chose yet another AR-15, this time with pissin' hot bubba loads in inadequate brass cases.
GD had the best solution for machine guns, they made a drop in barrel for our existing M60s. Machine guns are one of the few platforms it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber like 5.56 anyway, but we've fielded heavy machine guns in the past like the M60. This was basically just a solution to make the calibers interchangeable with our main service rifle so we don't have to stock 7.62x51 anymore. But we'd still just use the M60, saving shit tons of money. Saving money was NOT the real reason Sig won the contract, GD's barrel swap solution would've been the winner in cost savings by a lot.
Bruh everything in your post is factually incorrect. M60s? LMAO
>Machine guns are one of the few platforms it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber like 5.56 anyway, but we've fielded heavy machine guns in the past like the M60.
The complete opposite is true as it makes more sense to use a 7.62 NATO mg over a 5.56 mg because they more or less weigh the same hence why certain countries (England and Norway for example) are dumping their 5.56 mgs and going back to 7.62 NATO mgs in their squad.
The ammo mainly, and the bullpup design making it qualify for the velocity needs as well as the suppressor requirement without making the length excessive. The Sig cuts the barrel length down to 13" in order for it not to be excessively long with a suppressor, so to get enough velocity to pierce lvl4+ armor it has an insane amount of recoil. The GD bullpup in comparison was smooth shooting yet still compact enough for easy handling indoors and in vehicles. The ammo also shot cold due to the polymer casings. The chamber stays cool but the barrel still heats up. Because of that they didn't really need to adapt it into a machine gun, it already functioned as one. It already had better recoil management and heat dissipation than both other candidates.
It was really the only one that actually brought something revolutionary to the table with its polymer cased ammo, short suppressor, and recoil mitigation. The other options just heard "make it penetrate impenetrable armor" and shoved a frickhuge caliber into a beefed up rifle resulting in excessive recoil, chamber heating, and decreased barrel life.
>It was really the only one that actually brought something revolutionary to the table
I'd say the telescoped ammo of the textron is a promising concept.
The pros were negated by the con of putting the ejection port right where the support hand needs to go. It would've worked as a bullpup, the ejection port would be further forward making shooting from the offhand more comfortable. A combination of the GD and Textron would've been something interesting, otherwise it needed something like the Desert Tech MDR's forward ejection system.
Tell that to the guy who has to hump all the heavier ammo around. Machine guns are often used for suppressive fire just to get the enemy's heads down, yes it makes sense to fire a lighter caliber... Regardless the military called for an HMG and General Dynamics had the best solution.
>Tell that to the guy who has to hump all the heavier ammo around.
I have, and I'll do it again. 5.56 was never a suitable MG round and trying to adopt a 5.56 loading suitable for MG use made 5.56 an aggressively mediocre service rifle catridge. 6.8 is not heavier than its competitor for MG use, it's lighter because its competitor is 7.62x51. We could have a real conversation about 6.8x51 (Lone Star, Sig) vs 5.56x45 (M193, SS109, M855, M855A2, MK318 etc) as service rifle cartridges, but there isn't a conversation to be had about their merits as MG rounds. 6.8 is simply better; best in class in fact.
You have a credibility gap on this topic, by the way. The M60 was replaced decades ago and isn't in service. The M60 isn't a HMG, and is noteworthy mostly for being extremely light for a GPMG.
Basically, stfu and lurk moar, newhomosexual.
>Basically
Whole lotta bather to get to the tl;dr.
No one likes this gun and this will likewise be dropped and replaced by an ar. In any case this gun is literally an ar variant any way you fricking moron. it’s 99% a piston ar with its own dimension receiver set based on caliber. Also, it still looks cooler and performs better than bullpup ever will kek
>no one likes this gun
>It's an AR
>it will be dropped and replaced by an AR
The cognitive dissonance required to still be an ARgay in 2023 is astonishing. I don't think I've ever personally witnessed a triple self contradiction.
not him but no one likes the ngsw because it doesnt fix any problems that still exist where 5.56 falls short like in armor penetration and ballistics/range. its big and bulky too and not aesthetic like an m16 or something. however its still a functioning firearm that is based off of the ar platform. your just seething because you still like bullpups in 2023 to be a little contrarian gay.
They are space efficient and I've done building clearing training and have had to use those skills in the field. OAL is important and that's why you hear so many guys raving about how short a rifle is, otherwise no one would give a shit and we'd all still be shooting rifles the length of a Blunderbuss. You keep your grandpa guns, I'm evolving and using the more practical tool.
Seething.
I’m not even an ARgay and hate them equally but everyone knows bps are inherent trash. They look like a worm’s rifle and performs like one
t. PTRchad
>PTR chad
lmao green mountain barrel hahahahahaha
PTRs are literally one of the most proven firearms. BPs can’t even get one round through without destroying itself lol
Keep seething
>shilling ptr trash that breaks if you look at it wrong
oh no the virgin moron is feeling threatened lmao
???
lurk moar
you look like an idiot talking shit about a PTR especially while you are likely a bullpup defender lol
>nooooooo not my precious ptr memegun you can't be mean to THAT imma elite OPERATOR!!!!
how curiously sensitive these gays are haha wonder why hahahaha
>but everyone knows bps are inherent trash
Everyone with sub-90 IQ for sure.
>In any case this gun is literally an ar variant any way you fricking moron
Despite not sharing anything in common besides a passing resemblance. I guess by that logic the glock is a BHP variant
Wish I knew that a slave pin was needed to put the mag release back on. I've been waiting for ARID to send out their aftermarket mag releases with one so I can put it together.
I desire the gator blaster
Swampthing reporting for dooty
sesh 🙂
I want the 20 inch barrel but I want the pistol grip too and they don't make one like that in 5.56
this shit looks weird too, like actually alien
They actually did, though its not on their website anymore
Plenty of sites still have them though
https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/640832005974
https://battlehawkarmory.com/product/kel-tec-rdb-downward-ejecting-bullpup-semi-automatic-223-remington5.56-nato-20.5-20-round-polymer-bullpup-black-stock-black-nitride-tactical-rifle
https://arnzenarms.com/product/kel-tec/rdb-bullpup-556mm-nato-20-inch-barrel-tan-grip-20-round
Warms my heart they carry to the 4th decimal place.
I genuinely love the look of this
Just not the color
Talk me out of buying one to turn into the halo br
well the canon BR55 is in a 9.5x40mm cartridge based on 9x39 Kurz, so it'd be pretty expensive to get a gunsmith to develop a wildcat round that was basically slightly scaled up from a Soviet cartridge and then rechamber the gun in it.
Also I'm unsure how you're going to get the HUD that tells you the rounds left in the mag.
>.223
How swollen do your nipples get when you menstruate?
Whats the rail?
Wow, it looks way better with that shorter handguard than this stock one
Heres the opposite direction with the longer 20 inch RDB-S handguard placed on the 17 inch gun
Looks like a more modern G11
In the same vein, here's a 16in x95 with a BLK LBL handguard meant for the longer barrel version
Oh that's sexy
Bullpups are like women with big butts. Of course they're sexy.
AUG gf:
>short
>butt-heavy
>glasses
>likes it in the rear
>knows exactly where she wants your support hand
Forgot one oops lol
Tavor gf:
>Picky eater.
>Everything she wants (accessories) are expensive and you BETTER pay up.
>Huge ass (figuratively and literally)
>Will enjoy middle eastern rekt videos with you.
MDRx gf:
>Trying really hard to make up for past frick-ups.
>Willing to eat anything.
>Flexable. Willing to change herself to get things done.
>Proudly American
VHS-2 gf:
>Big arms and dexterous hands needed to handle her.
>Slightly less ass than her contemporaries.
>Forward-thinking and ambidextrous, but kind of goofy
>Gets dunked on because of her bootleg visa, dumb tattoos, and cringe nickname (Thanks Springfield)
P90 gf:
>Only willing to eat fancy
>Shortstack of shortstacks. Will make e-girl jokes.
>"Good enough" at everything.
>Everyone thinks she's cool and that you're lucky to have her.
F2000 gf:
>Can't see shit because her glasses suck.
>"Feesh :)"
>Gucci and fashionable. People will think you're important with her around.
>A lot of cushion for the pushin'
RDB gf:
>Cracked out flordian, but still knows how to function somehow.
>Easy to charm and easier to please
>Drugs keep her weight down.
>Arguably the best choice in terms of cost-to-drama.
QBZ-95 gf:
>Eats dogs
>Fears escalators
>圓圓的眼睛回家
>Turns to dust if you talk about Tiananmen
overextending the joke and not even doing it very well
like the Tavor is notoriously overgassed and developed by people who...have experience being overgassed, but you didn't do anything with that
Funny joke reasonably well executed
Original.
Funny ..enough.
Well done, free ammo for you!
what's the light you got on there? been looking for one like that
It's an enforce. Don't do it anon, just buy an ariska
In force WML, but like
said, get something better. It's since been replaced with a Streamlight TRL-1 HL
>In the same vein, here's a 16in x95 with a BLK LBL handguard meant for the longer barrel version
Really wish the MDR Mantis had a version that could wrap a suppressor, would really love the 20 instead of the 16. Wrapped cans are sexy (and practical).
Has anyone gotten a lucky irish handguard? I am really thinking about upgrading to one.
I think keltec sells their own too, I dont know which one is cheaper
I was wondering if anyone sells a free float that has a heat shield. I always wondered why modern AR's with free float sleeves don't have them. I must really be missing something because that basically doesn't exist. I know vertical forgrips and gloves is probably the answer, but it still seems like something that would be a thing at least for enough people that there would be a small market for them.
What you're missing is that those heat shields are there to keep the plastic from melting/burning, not to keep your hands comfortable. Like you said, with aluminum handguards there are other options, including just running a girthier handguard that has more thermal mass and a wider internal diameter so it won't heat up as fast.
https://www.keltecweapons.com/product/rdb-m-lok-forend/
my buddy has the rdb defender variant which has that same kinda mlok on the front of it. shoots great. feels great. good gun. I'm kind of jealous- it cost a grand less than my hellion and I almost like it more
I got mine off Mr gun for 750 and some change a couple years ago when my lgs couldn't get them in stock. It was a little ove 800 with Shipping, insurance and the transfer. Fantastic little gun. I wish they offered it with a slightly beefed up Barrel and trunnion. I have a feeling it would really tighten up the groupings.
I got the official Kel-Tec handguard and it's pretty good and comfy and easy to install
that looks fricken awesome
What bayo adapter? I refuse to pay grisille'.
Leaf here.
Friend has one for the 20" variant they sell here, as well as a bunch of the Haga Defense aftermarket parts.
The Lucky Irish handguard is really nice, but it's also expensive, and because of how it's mounted it heats up quite quickly through firing as the heat conducts right through the metal screw directly to the outside of the handguard. You'll need to buy some kind of scales for that part of the handguard. It also can't quickly or easily be removed.
My advice would be to grab the Keltec mlok handguard instead, and throw some extra at Haga for the flaired magwell. The haga stock is nice, too, but not really needed.
They're worth it. They're fantastic out of the box ergo wise, the only thing I recommend is a rubber grip sleeve because it's a little narrow. I also put on a Magpul handstop close to the trigger and a stubby vfg at the barrel. I made the sling that comes in the box a single point as well, it works really well with the form factor.
They are neat.
I had a dream where america was hip deep in a civil war/ww3 scenario and these were as common as ar15s, modernized fudd guns and "shotgun" platoons were a norm. It was like all the enemies america made were here to fight with the feds blessing. It was doomy yet based
>all the enemies america made were here to fight with the feds blessing
American gunowners could probably 1vX the entire world frfr
Yeah they do look pretty futuristic not gonna lie
This a rdb thread now
How well is it running with that can anon? I heard adjusting the gas is the worst part of this gun and thats without a can even
It ran fine out of the box, pretty easy to tune, just load 1 round at a time and back the gas down 1 click per round until it stops locking back on empty magazine, then go back up 2 clicks on the gas...really soft shooting and really quiet suppressed, also no gas fumes in the face
Ya 17” barrel...naw just a cgs helios ti
>just load 1 round at a time and back the gas down 1 click per round until it stops locking back on empty magazine, then go back up 2 clicks on the gas
is that the 17 inch barrel with a over-the-barrel can?
I'd figure that the Tavor being the standard issue weapon of the IDF would make them pickier about the gun, do they just train soldiers to get used to the shitty trigger or what?
>do they just train soldiers to get used to the shitty trigger or what?
Theres nothing to get used to. Fancy triggers just don't really matter at the end of the day if you're not a competition shooter. It doesn't take a geisele to be able to dump half a mag into a palestinian child
I don't have IDF conscript experience to share but I have worked on the X95 I got as a gift for my brother. Both the X95 and AUG triggers are injected polymer. The surface on the X95 is a bit curved laterally but at the end of the day will be outperformed by anything thinner or with more texture like the sabra lightning bow especially when your hands get wet or sweaty. I shoot in hot deserts so it's more noticeable. The lateral surface of the factory trigger on the AUG is just smooth completely and with the stock trigger pack (no ratworx sear or red spring) it just feels squishy and your finger pad doesn't get a good purchase. If you'll be shooting for a while then it's a lot easier to feel the fatigue. The AUG was designed to have a progressive trigger for fa from the start however so this may have had an impact on the travel felt.
RDB is if you want the Halo Battle Rifle.
RFB is if you want Randy's Throwing Knife from destiny.
I really don't get the appeal of downward eject. It makes the LOP worse, and the case is ejected really close to your body.
I see a lot of shit given to forward eject, but honestly forward eject just seems much better.
LOP on the RDB is like 14.5" which is pretty standard
The RFB has the same LOP while using a bigger, longer round. That wouldn't be possible with downward eject.
DE ultimately limits how short the LOP can be. Whereas with a forward eject, a rifle could use a falling/sliding breech block and shorten the space between the magwell and stock. Only a matter of time before that happens.
>The RFB has the same LOP while using a bigger, longer round. That wouldn't be possible with downward eject.
I'm almost certain that they could easily keep the LOP the same if they just use the RDB Hunter/Survival form factor. It might even make reinforcing the thing for higher pressure ammo even simpler.
>I'm almost certain that they could easily keep the LOP the same if they just use the RDB Hunter/Survival form factor
At the cost of having no grip, which is a no-no for modern combat use. If you need to get rid of the grip to save LOP, then it shows LOP is an issue for downward eject.
Forward eject has no such problem.
>YWN get to blast the yellow nation with these
I remember when /k/ fricking *hated* bullpups.
Will somebody explain to a gunlet here? Why does the action is behind the trigger? Does this make the recoil smaller? Does the balance of the gun is better?
Allows full length barrel while keeping the rifle shorter then normal non-bullpup rifles.
>Will somebody explain to a gunlet here?
Sure I'll bite
>Why does the action is behind the trigger?
With traditional designs the stock is essentially "wasted space". It has ergonomic purpose but not functional. Idea with bullpup is to make that area functional.
>Does this make the recoil smaller?
In theory yes, since your grip is further aheqd usually, meaning you have more leverage on the rotation axis of the gun. In practice this is marginal and and depends way more on other factors.
>Does the balance of the gun is better?
Yes, especially with guns that have more attachments.
The main benefit over all that however is that you can have a longer barrel than traditional guns in the same package, since the barrel reaches all the way to the back of the gun, rather than just the middle. Longer barrel means faster muzzle velocity, since gunpowder gets longer time to burn.
Faster traveling bullets have the potential to cause more damage and are easier to hit targets at longer distances with.
Shorter barrel also means the gun can be manuevered in a CQB or vehicular enviroment more easily.
NTA, different gunlet here. The arguments in favor of a bullpup have always made sense to me; are there any (objective/technical) drawbacks? Other than $$$, all of the arguments against that I can remember seem to rest solely on aesthetics (and I disagree with those assessments, most of the the guns in this thread look absolutely sexo to my eye).
If you're standing around with it at rest and hold it with your arms slightly extended then you're supporting more weight compared to an M4. Transitioning from shooting right handed to left handed during drills is also harder for people just figuring it out compared to getting over that reloading ergonomics but it's all training.
Thanks very much for the info. Teething issues and 3rd party support are something every early adopter has to deal with, absolutely -- firearms or otherwise.
>muscle memory is really important
This point in particular has helped me make sense of a lot of negative reactions I've heard/read where the complaint was something along the lines of "I just don't like them, okay? It doesn't FEEL right."
memory is really important
>This point in particular has helped me make sense of a lot of negative reactions I've heard/read where the complaint was something along the lines of "I just don't like them, okay? It doesn't FEEL right."
Yeah, definitely a real issue though. Building up muscle memory is arguably the single most core activity for "training" in general right? There is some other knowledge/skill to gain particularly for long range, learning how to take into account drop, windage etc. But a lot of being good with guns is "performing basic operations consistently and fast under any conditions" = muscle memory. Lot of time. And since training that with guns requires some amount of actual shooting it's not cheap either. Of course some of that will carry over to other platforms even bullpups but the niggle is there.
To give an example of muscle memory/network effects in an utterly different area: keyboards. QWERTY is provably suboptimal for English language usage or even code. It's this weird legacy thing from typewriters, in part based on mechanical limitations that stopped existing with the first computer ever invented. Way back in the 90s I did have a spell where I learned Dvorak and then Colemak. And they were improvements for language typing. But they were hard to use even then let alone a decade later because I have so much muscle memory around all sorts of system and application short cuts. I can touch type very fast as well. Trying to use a non-standard keyboard layout is hard, constant niggles and swimming upstream, and I decided not worth it for my usage. Traditional <> bullpups is actually lower barrier in a lot of ways but still easy to see it just being this constant itch rubbing someone the wrong way. They go to reach for the thing that Should Be There Damn It and it's not.
But that's not just a bullpup issue; that's everything with a different user interface than something else. Give an AK guy an AR and have him run drills and eventually he's going to reach over the gun for a charging handle that isn't there or fumble taking the gun off safe because the selector is completely different. A battle rifle guy might put his second shot into the dirt because he's expecting way more recoil than an AR can provide. A bullpup guy might steer his reload into the stock at some point.
The problem isn't that different guns exist, the problem is that people want "rifle shooting" to be a monolithic skill like in an RPG, and the most common expression of this is people becoming accustomed to the AR's user interface and then judging other rifles' "ergonomics" based on—how much like an AR the controls are.
As an AK guy that's been forced to do AR training for work, it's not that big of an issue. You realize you're fumbling in a fraction of a second and go back to the proper manual of arms for that gun. I only got yelled at when mortared an AR after it jammed. Apparently the buffer tubes are fwagile.
>You realize you're fumbling in a fraction of a second and go back to the proper manual of arms for that gun.
I know—I've done it myself—but it is a fraction of a second slower than just automatically doing it right the first time, and that's all the excuse that some people need to shit on a gun (in spite of it being a skill issue)
>Apparently the buffer tubes are fwagile.
common adjustable stock L
I love bullpups but
>are there any (objective/technical) drawbacks?
Sure, and well known/discussed too.
- It's much harder to do a good trigger for one, fundamentally more complex. That's been solved in the last decade, not an impossibility, and it's not like mush military grade triggers somehow don't work obviously, but it's a drawback. Electronic firing may ultimately render this perfectly moot but that's not a thing yet.
- Very different lop which might be less optimal for many. I think this can be trained around but it's there.
- Ejection port being way back is an issue if you want ambi. There are various ways to engineer around this, but again that's the thing, it's more engineering. More complexity.
- Very different manual of arms. I suppose you could call this "subjective" or "skill issue", but muscle memory is really important. If someone has decades under their belt with AR, switching to something radically different IS absolutely a real issue and reasonably so. Obviously someone staring out brand new wouldn't care but the existing market is huge.
There are also some drawbacks that aren't fundamental but still reasonable. Due to the extra complexity and other factors, while there are reasonably old bullpup designs the modern explosion of interest and new modern models is quite recent. They also aren't standardized pattern. That means the 3rd party market is much weaker. You can't customize as much. They're less refined. They're more expensive. It's still "early days" by the pace of the gun industry. You may have a harder time getting them serviced 3rd party.
How much that matters to you vs the strengths is totally subjective but stupid to pretend network effects aren't real.
Don't care, still like em.
>Don't care, still like em.
I like em too. I wasn't saying you should care, but other anon asked for drawbacks so there they are. Personally I'm fine with the tradeoffs, but I also understand why the majority wouldn't be. And I can also easily think of things I really wish existed and seem like they should exist (like a 300bo Micron) that don't yet. It's like a lot of "early adopter" stuff, you're getting something newer and cool with unique strengths, but less polished, less 3rd party, less niches covered, more expensive.
I think in another 5-10 years it'll really be down to taste and maybe cost, there will be multiple good no-caveat options just like with ARs, and perhaps even some cheaper-ok choices too.
Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree. The only one that really hasn't so far is lack of an adjustable stock. AS' are pretty much mandatory for new service rifles now.
I think the way around this is to use a falling/sliding breech block (picrel), where the breech moves vertically or horizontally instead of backwards. Then you don't need any space behind the magwell and you can fit an adjustable stock.
>Fortunately most of these problems have been solved to a degree
Sure, but not necessarily as baselines yet if that makes sense. We're definitely out of the prototype and 1.0 stages of bullpup development with current ones, they've had real refinement, key challenges have been overcome at least piecemeal. It's 2.x now. But we're not yet at the point where you can just pick any random $1500+ rifle and expect it to be pretty decent in all respects, instead each has things it's solved well and things it lags. Great triggers oob can be done, but not every one has a great trigger oob. Ambi friendly eject can be done, but not each one does, and there is no settled approach. And accuracy in the semi-auto ones has lagged, though often that's one of the final things to really get polished.
So definitely not "bleeding edge", or "alpha/beta tester", maybe even "early adopter" is a little unfair. But still a decent ways away from "mainstream" let alone "conservative". Fun to see them evolving though. If nothing else, the diversity and lack of standards and universal accepted approach also means there is a lot of room to try really different stuff even if some of it fails.
Here's an example of a horizontal moving breech: The "Smerch" bullpup prototype. It uses a "hinge block", where the breechblock is attached to a hinge, and swings sideways after firing.
>if you want ambi.
Anecdotal, but keeping dominant eye/hand is more common in use outside of niche close quarters things. But if you're doing those niche things more barrel/velocity for less overall length negotiating indoors + something like an RDB rear ejection is very handy.
Both length of pull and mush mechanical triggers should be non-issues with electronic triggers; grips & triggers will be modular, it's just a question of cost and bad laws holding back small arms development massively.
see this?
The one on the left is an AR with a 16" barrel.
The one on the right is a Kel-Tec RDB with a 20" barrel.
that's a 14.5" AR
t. autist
Take it up with Officer Greg, it's from his video on the RDB and he says it's a 16.
you can tell from the section of barrel in front of the M203 cut. he probably said 16" because the flash hider is pinned & welded therefore making it legally 16". the RDB wouldn't have the flash hider included in the barrel length because it's not permanently attached and therefore the numbers aren't comparable. the barrel length difference is even more than you claim it is. not trying to be a shitter just letting you know you are underselling your argument.
If that non-extended A2 flash hider is pinned and welded it'd better be 14.7"
>section of barrel in front of the M203 cut
when are the US going to drop that feature? everything is on rail these days.
it would also allow for a longer gas tube.
I love the finns
instead of having a wooden or plastic club on your gun, the sole purpose of which is to punch your shoulder, you leave it off, and let the gun punch your shoulder without a club, so it's shorter
the grot can do both
Still waiting on them to import it.
NO ONE is going to be swapping grots
ARgays will leave it in the AR config and bullpupgays will leave it as a bullpup anyone saying otherwise is actually damaged
Is the MDRX in 308 good?
Been thinking of that or a FN SCAR17S
People with MDRs and MDRXes that were either good from the factory or were made good through DT's warranty process seem to like theirs, but as an 00s kid I still think the SCAR is cooler.
I want an MDRX so bad bros
>tfw Judge Benitez still hasn't issued the opinion in Miller v Bonta for CA "features ban" AWB lawsuit
Why wouldn't you move to a place where your vote on gun rights matters?
All I will say is leaving is not an option. When the day comes that we win, getting that MDRX will taste all the sweeter
the moment the AWB is tossed away, is the moment my bank will be giving me shit
i am getting that MDRx no matter what
theres no CA legal version? I thought you could get these off atlantic and toss in a fin grip
you can, but goddamn it would suck. fricking hate fin grips, thank god that AWB charges are basically tack-on only at this point (unenforced everywhere)
yeha I was gonna say those tend to inconveniently fall off a lot at my range
Just because a state bans it doesn't mean you can't get it. Use your brain.
I just got denied being able to buy ammo in this shithole. I just moved back here and I'm appalled the ammo restrictions have held up for 3 years ffs. They require a passport to purchase them, their own state ID/DL isn't enough apparently. It's obviously just an infringement. How much of a chance does an average person have in suing the state for bullshit like this?
I'm not sure what it looks like field stripped, but you could do receiver only DRoS. Or you could also just take off the grip for the DRoS.
After picking up you could fin it if you really want to stay compliant and it's really easy to screw on and off a kydex wrap. I will say that I haven't been to a range that asked about compliance before in the past few years. I've only been bothered by faculty about it once and it was at Riverside Indoor Shooting Range. Black guy working in the front counter insisted that standard caps were illegal to use and kept finger fricking my blocked 30 round length pmags. Never went back again. Warrior one isn't too far of a drive from there. Something about that part that attracts fudds.
noooooo you’re not supposed to enjoy guns that aren’t ARs because ARs are better nooooooo
I concur
I think the QBZ-95 is cool because of the striker mechanism it has instead of a traditional hammer.
sorta like the "Linear Hammer" of the Vz58
or the thing they end up doing to convert open-bolt guns like the M249 to semi-auto to the ATF's satisfaction
I really like the proprietary scope for those things. The reticle looks like what would happen if the soviets were in charge of making the G36 scope.
What an ugly piece of crap!
Old pic. PS90 has been SBR'ed for a few months now.
>PS90 with ghost ring sight
my homie. unless it's that new ugly ass one with a battery wart on the left side. then you can gtfo
Nah, its the OG black reticle with (barely working) tritium.
Just bought a PS90 today, psyched to get it.
They're fun for sure, cool pickup.
I enjoy my bullpups
Why are they so expensive? Is there something about the designs that are more costly to manufacture?
They're expensive compared to cheap ARs because cheap ARs are cheap. They're expensive compared to what you remember a WASR-10 costing twenty years ago because that's a budget AK made on tooling that was given to Cugir for free by the Soviets and it was 20 years ago.
They're not expensive at all in comparison to a "premium" or "duty grade" AR like a DDM4 or what serviceable AKs actually cost these days.
What coupon code?
No coupon code, it's just how they handle below-MAP pricing.
I like mine
nice desert tech, how is it compared to other bullpups? also what's the carryhandle u got on there
It has a better than the other semi auto bullpups out there. Have had no issues with the micron since its just a simple side eject. the carry handle is off some crappy tristar shotgun. Wish someone would make an actual extra long carry handle that allows optic mouning
Based I remember you fellow MDR owner, you have that custom cut back handguard on your Micron. I'd have micron ordered tomorrow if they did one in 300bo. I want a 300bo Micron as my semi and a 300wm SRS as my long range gun.
>how is it compared to other bullpups
nta but they're quite nice if you get a good one and are willing to put money into it, and annoying if you end up on the QC carousel. The DT 308 barrels are pretty shit, other calibers are fine. You can solve that with money by buying an ES barrel which turns an already very expensive bullpup into a super expensive one. The included handguard is crap and the attach mechanism isn't great so you'll need to get 3rd party again if you want anything on there that holds zero. They have been steadily improving though and can do things no other one can (again via 3rd party for $$$$), but for OOB reliability a israelitegun or one of the pre-manufacturer-shift Augs would be better.
I like mine and at the same time can't really recommend it wholeheartedly. Maybe in another year or two.
Gunna be getting a vhs-2 here soon. Does anyone know if it fits in the ebic tennis racket case? Need to know for uh, reasons.
Maybe I just need a bigger racquet bag, but my AUG barely fits and the VHS is slightly longer even with the stock fully collapsed.
What racquet case did you get? I'll try to get one that is slightly longer then.
A cheap Wilson one from Walmart. I considered trying again with a bigger bag from Dick's or wherever—it'd be a simple matter of bringing a tape measure, finding a 29" racquet, and finding a bag it fits in—but I never followed up on it since the novelty of carrying my rifle around in a totally-not-sus-at-all tennis racquet bag isn't worth spending, at this point, very close to the cost of a normal gun bag like
https://www.saviorequipment.com/collections/rifle-bags/products/american-classic-shorty-double-rifle-case?variant=43262191796477
that I could use as a range bag on rifle days and honestly wouldn't attract that much more attention from anyone not looking at every single bag they see and wondering if it has a rifle in it.
I'm looking at the racket case because I unfortunately have to live in an ultra liberal area due to work, and their is a tennis court that is on my apartment complex. I would also like to avoid people even knowing I own a gun, since its a high crime area. Thanks for the advice tho, I'll go bring a tape measure with me to the local dicks and see what I can find.
It's spendy, but Crye Precision's EXP2100 is fairly nondescript (apart from only being available in black, Ranger green, coyote, and Multicam) and will accommodate a broken-down AUG or AR just fine while still mostly looking like a (relatively large) commuter backpack, or an assembled AUG/Mk18/etc. with all the expansion gussets...expanded. Large duffel bags like Patagonia's Black Hole will also work—the Patagonia in particular has the value-added of having a huge Patagonia logo on the side, so the ultralibs will think you're one of them, maybe
hmmm maybe. Not sure I want to blow 300 on a crye, but the idea of a backpack sounds like a viable option, and I might be able to use one of my smaller packs instead of getting something new entirely.
Info is much appreciated. Thanks for the help senpai.
https://www.amazon.com/Wilson-Advantage-II-Tennis-Bag/dp/B00I14X9PU/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?keywords=wilson+tennis+bag&qid=1688956652&sr=8-2
I have this exact one, I’m not sure if anything has changed in the internal dimensions of the design as I got mine like eight years ago but it’s the exact same as the pics down to the stitching pattern on the zipper pulls. My 16” barrel AUG is the biggest gun I have that will fit at 28 1/4” long, and it’s a squeeze to close the zipper. Anything longer will be harder to fit and anything shorter will fit no problem.
where the hell do you find one and how much are they?
is it a meme or does it actually work? if it does it's gotta be some kind of disgusting bolt/internal mechanism in there.
The maker posted a video of himself firing it on reddit so it seems to be legit. I don't think he's released the files yet but it sounds like he is going to at some point so for me it's something to look forward to
the redditor responsible for this sweet little fricklet pretends to think that he's a better designer and engineer than a whole team of seasoned HK gunmakers to farm updoots from other redditors, so in that respect it's laughably gay and so is he. On the other hand more bullpups are great and cottage industry bullpups are double great
Yes it's called a K&M M17S556
This is made for a specific piston upper I assume? Which upper?
It’s for a FM-15, yes it works but it’s still an early prototype
>AUG has easily removable barrel
Is it just for easy cleaning? Or did they intend for the rifle to serve a multipurpose role?
The intention, which you can still see in marketing videos Steyr has on YouTube, is that the same host gun can easily be swapped from rifle to carbine to LMG to 40mm platform without tools.
Lol, why isnt the GL just attached to the GL blank firing barrel to begin with?
I love bullpups
the name bullpup sounds like something i need to shoot at to keep my family safe
always hated it
What else would you call it? I mean, there are a lot of other technical terms for weapon functions, so it's not as if we couldn't find a term that would both easy to remember and be technically correct.
I want somebody *cough cough Kel-Tec* to come up with a 9mm downward ejecting bullpup. Ideally a lightweight telescoping bolt with a CMMG style radial delay action. You could still have an adjustable stock since the bolt travel is such a short distance. SBR'd to like 10" with a can would be a great PDW.
I know nobody would actually make it since moronic laws would require a huge barrel to meet OAL requirements, but damn it'd be cool.
5.56 is shit, so the aug is defacto shit
.300 blacked is supposedly in the works
1:7 barrels are limited runs from USMs
1:8 barrels don't exist afaik
there are very few viable mlok handguards for the a3m1's gay front qd point
other than 3rd-party support, it's a clear winner over gay15s
(You)
>not having a cold hammer forged chrome lined 1/7 AUG barrel already and not a stinky nitride 1/7 AUG barrel
>there are very few viable mlok handguards for the a3m1's gay front qd point
Arid Dev 35- and 40-slot top rails dropping early August, Mlok handguards that attach to the rails TBA
heard you like chrome AUG barrels
How do I bullpup my ak?
malyuk kit
Any RFB enjoyers
Not even trying to be a dick but who is even using bullpups anymore? The chinks? I always thought they were all ugly as sin and they’ve always seemed to be unreliable until the israelite tavor so that says a lot
>Not even trying to be a dick but who is even using bullpups anymore
More and more civilians.
>The chinks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_AUG#Users
>I always thought they were all ugly as sin
Well, your taste is shit and my subjective opinion that they look a million times better than ARs is objectively correct but whatever.
>and they’ve always seemed to be unreliable until the israelite tavor so that says a lot
Aug wasn't unreliable, neither was the F2k for that matter even though it was shitty to shoot.
Other complaints to be made but not that. They're just a lot newer and the big explosion of development and interest has only been in the last few decades. Come back in 20 years I guess.
What bp do you have? What do you recommend? Aug?
Right now I have two MDRs and like them and have spent a lot of time with and plan to purchase an SRS. I have used tavor and aug enough to have an opinion and shot an RDB/RFB and they seemed neat but one mag is whatever. Ask other anons, like this gentleman
on those.
>Do you recommend an MDR
No.
>What do you recommend
Recommend you do your research. Which kind of sounds like a dick, but while I love bullpups and think they will be clear winners in another 5 years right now every single one of them has caveats and none of them are cheap either, it's not like it's some $500 thing that can be just rangetoy.
Tavor: overall solid and reliable in all respects if not particularly innovative. Not great triggers oob but easily rectified with 3rd party pack so doesn't matter. But 2-3moa accuracy is a bummer. Also mediocre suppression platform, though super low backpressure cans are improving this.
Aug: used to be an easy default, same trigger thing as above, again easily rectified. Used to be bad suppression but now that too can be rectified with readily available plugs plus good cans. Unfortunately they switched manufacturers so now, like, post-2016 or something ones are cracking in half. So have to get old one and it's a mess.
MDR: awesome tech, awesome flexibility, great oob trigger. bad: $$$$$$$$ more so then any of the others. Bad fixed gas block, heavy for 5.56, mediocre oob accuracy in 308 really picky with ammo, 1-4moa depending, has historically had bad QC. If buying one opposite of Aug, make absolutely sure to get a brand new one, they just made a bunch more improvements this past January.
RDB/RFB: good trigger oob. Lots like them. bad(??): downward eject seems cool but huge pita to clear if it does jam.
bonus: SRS/HTI: zero complaints of any kind whatsoever in terms of raw capability, compact great trigger sub-moa hole drillers. But they're bolt-action and probably not what you meant at all. Bad: very expensive, even for serious ELR platforms.
So if you've got the dosh and time just really really want to get into bullpups now there are solid great guns. But there's nothing that's just perfect for whatever. Like MDR Micron is super cool, but 5.56 only, no FE even as a choice, due to their stupid fixed gas. You can take any of those guns, imagine a few changes and it'd be a "go for it!" Or imagine them just fixing QC. And I sound negative despite loving bullpups but I don't want to lie to any anons and be moron fanboy over that much dosh. Also support at least for DT and from what I've heard Steyr is solid so even if you get a lemon you can get it fixed in the end. MDR has had a solid warranty. But the problem is I needed that warranty for one of them. First was thousands of rounds and going strong. Second broke after one single shot. One. Fricking. Shot. And then they took care of me, paid shipping both ways, had it fixed in 2 weeks even over a holiday, and through in upgraded 2023 charging handle change for me. Then a week after I got it back they called me on the phone (I'd done all the support req via email) to check in on how it was running for me. I can't say fairer then that in terms of warranty support right? That's good service.
But it still broke completely after one shot and then was 3.5 weeks to again. Is that something you're willing to risk with a $2500 gun? And some people have apparently had QC circles, where a bunch of stuff gets fixed, then they find a new problem, and a bunch more gets fixed, and then finally end up with a good gun. So it gets there in the end at no extra cost, but that's kind of shitty? If you like the gun a lot like I do and have other stuff to shoot and are like "I'll roll the dice and if golden gun right off great but if it takes a year with months of support back and forth ok with that too" fine but I feel like most shouldn't have to deal with that.
So yeah thank for reading my gay blog.
Bro what? You talk about how bullpups are clearly the future but you have bullpups that can’t even get through one shot. This is unironically why ARs have been on the moon and will be on Mars… because I can pick up some shitty psa for less than $400 and the worst that will happen is a few minor malfunctions and printing like 4 moa. Not to mention ARs are very aesthetic and if you deny that then you are clearly just being salty. I don’t like AKs and have owned them but I can easily admit they have a certain aesthetic vibe.
I sure hope you're only pretending to be moronic or a stupid zoomie.
>you say a new design is the future but it's not perfect yet like this other design which had tons of flaws and issues but 30 more years to get polished and refined vs something that was introduced brand new in the last 5-6 years
Yeah.
Not surprised the person who would post
Is saying what you’re saying lol
In any case your failure to realize that the govt was the one who fricked up the ar in vietnam by not chrome lining the chambers and bores because they were too cheap. This was 90% of the issues they had then. Bullpups repeatedly have the same issues that never get fixed because of the design in itself and nothing else. The ar is immortal and is literally the most reliable semi auto rifle platform to ever exist. If not for the gay us govt tarnishing it’s reputation out the gate because of incompetence I would imagine that we would’ve been where we are now 20 years ago aka literally every country copying the AR platform and moving away from bullpups.
Yeah you're one of those gays, why are you even here not in your /arg/ circle jerk? You're already convinced you have achieved absolute perfection and no further innovation is possible or desirable. And that's fine. Off you go.
>The funny thing about DT and accuracy is that they make capable, good barrels or at least somebody does if their bolt actions are anything to go by as they "promise" 0.5 MOA and I've heard nothing but good about those guns.
That's the SRS and HTI I was talking about. And yes, they are superb in every way. Just expensive. But they deliver.
The more pertinent example though is ES Tactical, who make quality MDR replacement barrel kits (and they'll do it all sorts of wild calibers too, want a 450 bushmaster bullpup? You can). Their 308 is vastly more accurate and consistent then DT's, and is very close to the price DT wants too. So it's strange. Though also again, some of it is a bad design choice, nothing even to do with the barrel. And factory 6.5sneed barrels in MDRXs are decent too. So who knows what's going on there right now. Maybe they'll do a gen3 that finally makes it perfect.
Nah dude I was and still am open to getting a bullpup but crazy’s like you turn me off because you aren’t living in reality. Idk why whether you just don’t know much, you like being contrarian, or you’re trying to justify your shitty rifle that couldn’t shoot one round. Whatever it is, idc. I’ll probably pick up a bullpup one day if it’s cheap af in my lgs
It's a range toy. Don't buy a bullpup expecting anything different.
OK so you're just an absolute fricking illiterate moron. Again, your place is /arg/.
>but crazy’s like you turn me off because you aren’t living in reality
Literally listing upsides and downsides of a gun with total honesty makes me a crazy not living in reality? Holy FRICK are you stupid.
>or you’re trying to justify your shitty rifle that couldn’t shoot one round
And has since repair shot a thousand rounds no problem? Or the first one that was good for thousands of rounds and no problem yet at all? Brand new gun platforms doing new stuff can have issues and cost more, the question is whether someone thinks the advantages are worth that or not. This isn't complicated. I love the feel of the gun, the manual of arms, running it, and I have a fully suppressed 16" barrel gun that is shorter in OAL then your unsuppressed AR and with better center of gravity. It also cost a lot more and still isn't quite as accurate. But that's not some fundamental to the design, hence why I think long term bullpups will get ironed out. At the end of the day, it's a full length barrel in a more compact design. Some people will always like that.
>I’ll probably pick up a bullpup one day if it’s cheap af in my lgs
Nah don't bother.
>listing upsides and downsides of a rifle makes me crazy
when you neglect the fact that the downsides far outweigh the upsides? Yes.
Your gun was rendered totally inoperable and required you to send it for warranty work on the first round. Am I missing something here?
>nah don’t bother
Ok you’re right I’d rather buy ammo
Kek thanks
>when you neglect the fact that the downsides far outweigh the upsides?
I neglected nothing you fricking moron. I literally didn't recommend it and said do the research.
>Your gun was rendered totally inoperable and required you to send it for warranty work on the first round. Am I missing something here?
That the other gun of the same model was great from the beginning and still is, that I paid not a single cent, that they gave me a free upgrade at the same time, and that it's been fine since? Why should that disqualify it completely if I like it enough otherwise? Lots of other /k/ommandos have various bullpups and have had no problems at all that I saw.
>Ok you’re right I’d rather buy ammo
Good. Make sure you never get any duds either because then you'll have to never buy that ammo again apparently.
wait whats going on with post 2016 augs?
Might be post-2017 I don't remember the exact date. But they switched manufacturers to save money or something and now receivers are splitting in half.
damn thats fricked up im glad i have one made in 2011
Yeah you're fine that's way before.
It’s from 2020ish, covid era. You can look inside the stock for a date code for a date on your stock, but not all stocks will have a date code. The first two digits of the serial number designate year of production up until 2020 when they made and sold a ton of rifles so if your serial begins with 19USA or earlier your rifle is fine.
That was only one batch of plastic and affected fewer than 1000 guns. If someone has one of the affected stocks it won't take long to find out, and when they do, Steyr will replace it for free.
It's not a serious reason to avoid the platform.
>That was only one batch of plastic and affected fewer than 1000 guns. If someone has one of the affected stocks it won't take long to find out, and when they do, Steyr will replace it for free.
>It's not a serious reason to avoid the platform.
Thanks anon, good to know more details. It wasn't clear when I read about it the scope of the issue. Though I think it'd be better if Steyr just had a list of serial numbers or a form to check serial numbers with.
>mediocre oob accuracy in 308
The funny thing about DT and accuracy is that they make capable, good barrels or at least somebody does if their bolt actions are anything to go by as they "promise" 0.5 MOA and I've heard nothing but good about those guns. I suppose they just don't give a damn about their semiauto barrels and the only way to really replace the MDRX barrel is to go to ES Tactical with another thousand plus in hand for an unguaranteed increase to performance and also if you don't like stainless steel then oh well
Why hasn't anyone just made a bullpup that uses AR-15/10 barrels? I'll never know
RDB, Tavor, or Aug?
AUG
VHS
I think this handguard looks sweet and it almost makes me want to get one but frick thats a lot of money for a design with some teething issues still. Im also not sure how useful an integrated bipod is but the rifle looks pretty scifi so whatever.
The proportions kind of frick me up. I know this is a 20" but it looks huge.
IIRC it's a touch lighter than a Harris or Atlas bipod attached to the normal handguard, and if you've got the bipod out you're probably not grasping the handguard, and vice-versa so it makes sense to me. Same principle as the handguard/bipod on the L2A1.
Lighter can be good. I guess i meant i dont know how useful it is over an external bipod like a harris. The whole thing looks so much slicker than the default forend. The stock rifle is kind of ugly.
Thats a good point about the length, i havent considered that. I feel like the short barrel looks better but the idea of a 20" in a compact form sounds nice too
A bipod's a bipod, for the most part. The BLK LBL's utility comes from the fact that it's integrated into the handguard so there's no need—no temptation—to remove it when you think you aren't going to need it, and when the legs are out their stowage slots function as giant ventilation holes for the barrel (I don't know homw much difference it actually makes, but it makes sense)
Its fun to minmax but really i think i just like it for the looks. Bipods and slings make every rifle better and im willing to die on this hill.
No idea, i dont have one. Ive got a scar 17 though and id rate it as pretty good/10. The boot is the best stock, frick the haters.
I misunderstood what you meant by wrap around the can. Yeah a full length handguard around the can would be dope.
If i do ever pull the trigger i think id go with a 5.56 20" and build it up over time.
>Thats a good point about the length, i havent considered that. I feel like the short barrel looks better but the idea of a 20" in a compact form sounds nice too
That's why I mentioned the wrapping bit. 20" with a 16" barrel and wrapping the first 3-4" of can would be perfect, look good, be practical and full utility. Earlier anon posted a wrapped micron
there, it's a slick way to go imo. Instead have to decide on a tradeoff. As someone with a 16 (20 didn't exist when I got it) I'd suggest that if you went for it to just suck it up and go 20, but also maybe just get the plain aluminum one instead (which also didn't exist when I got it) unless you have something you really want on the bottom besides a bipod.
It's definitely expensive, and it's not perfect. They decided to have the mechanism for the legs interior at the end rather than have the hg be a little oblong, which means it will not wrap a can like the normal ones will. The 16" version also only has a single mlok on the side which is kinda worthless, I drilled mine out. And since the legs are integral the length depends on the handguard length, so the 16" version has shorter legs than the 20" version, usable in general with 10/20 but not 30 rounds and sometimes rough terrain has to be considered.
It's slick though. It definitely feels premium, everything is very smooth, and it's been plenty durable. Bipod is useful with 30cal. But definitely an indulgence purchase behind other more important things.
How good is the MDR as a .308 battle rifle? Is it better than an LR308?
>How good is the MDR as a .308 battle rifle? Is it better than an LR308?
LR308 is significantly more accurate without extra investment, though MDR can reasonably manage 1-2moa so not like it's useless if you wanted to hunt with it even. But it's no hole driller. LR308 obviously massively cheaper, and with cheaper and more widely available custom options on top. They're both about the same weight. MDR is of course much shorter (like 8-10", not insignificant) and with weight balance back towards your body which in practice makes it easier to keep up longer and steadier. MDR has extremely flexible multicaliber capability, but if you don't actually care about that and just want to run 308 then of course that isn't worth anything.
So I'd say no, on balance LR308 is a better 308 BR. 308 is probably MDRs weakest caliber oddly enough, it's much better in 6.5. I like using the MDR more but that's personal taste. And if you really wanted to try a 308 bullpup Tavor 7 is another option and can also be found for dramatically less than an MDR.
If the MDR isn't too accurate, 6.5CM is probably not worth using with it.
All my friends telling me bullpups are a mistake, but I think they r pretty cool. Call me basic but I love th AUG and the Famas. Im not sure how specifically and in what situation are they better than M16's, ak's and AR's, but im sure there have to be situations where bullpups are better. Tell me!
there arent any. sorry.
they're short and ergonomics are great
the weight is to the rear of the rifle so when you hold it up it actually doesn't feel like anything since you support the weight with your chest
like you see beanpole skinnygays here complain that their AR is 6 pounds while a tavor is closer to 9 but feels like 3
>tavor is 9lbs
>but feels like 3lb
what is the meaning of this cope?
picrel is my daily and weighs as much as your shitty featureless israeli tavor
it means you're a moron who can't read
the tavors weight is all on you, you barely feel it
with your AR your need your cuck cope handle because there's more weight at the front of your platform, even more so if you have a quadrail or something
I get that but weight doesn’t just disappear because it’s somewhere else. Sorry your twink arms aren’t strong enough to should a normal functioning rifle. Maybe try hitting the gym and getting ride of your shitty gun. This whole thread is just cope. Even the pro bullpup gays talk about how their bull pups don’t work
also, FPBP
lmao tl;dr
you're seething over being called a twinklet
>your brain on bullpups
You didn’t even call me a twink dumbass lmao you’re the bullpup coper though?
How’s the rifle that couldn’t even get one round down range without breaking?
no one cares twinklet
samegay
im assuming this is your thread
pretty sad ngl
>i get that
oh so he gets the line about the weight distr-
>but weight doesn't just disappear because it's somewhere else
you acknowledge the point, but you deflect being wrong with a shield of moronation. you are beyond saving
Stop samegayging. No amount of seething is going to make your bullpup better. It’s unironically over. I hate to be the one to tell you this
I like my trek 22 but live in commiefornia so can't really get any cool bullpups anyway. Considered the rdb hunter but had better things to spend money on. Wish the atrax actually made it to market but such is life.
anyone who dislikes bullpups confirms themselves as a newguns on the same tier as anyone who dislikes kel-tec or the obrez
Tavors don't count as bullpups. Missing the point. people who buys tavors and consider themselves "bullpup likers" are the same kids who would hang out with you when you made kites and rafts and dens out of bits of shit and had adventures, and they'd try to impress you with their R/C planes their parents bought them. Frick off Tavor numales
>try to have a nice thread to enjoy brappups
>ARgays NEED to remind everyone about their superiority
I once thought ARgays had worms in their brain given their behavior, but I realize now that isn't the case. They have no brain, its just worms
It's true, bullpup users are elite operators.
>bullpup haters
1911s suck as well, better throw all of them away huh?
Just picked up my Tavor 7 yesterday.
my manticore parts should be in this week/weekend. got the buttpad and the hammerhead forend.
Should be going shooting in just a bit. I hope it isn't too gassy, but every other complaint I've heard about it thus far has seemed pretty exaggerated.
It isn't THAT heavy
Nice, hope you have fun and report back with your impressions, maybe a few 100yd groups if you can. In /brg/ if nowhere else if this thread is ded.
>gassy
Do you plan to suppress it? They aren't great suppressor platforms though not unworkable with the right can. But if it's just bare or muzzle brake or something don't see why it would give you any trouble.
got to try it out for about 100 rds
I like it
didn't like the stock buttpad but later this afternoon the manticore parts came in and I spent the evening putting em on.
broke the damn corby bolt that holds the forend on, but fortunately it was one of the only parts in stock on IWI's website so I ordered a couple.
love the way this hammerhead forend looks.
hopefully that pin comes in soon and can shoot it some more.
sry no pics of groups but I did get my holosun sighted in on steel at 100yds.
ching chong nip nong i berong! huehue
How are things going with c21 leaf bro?
even in leafland that's cope, we can still get tavors
frick you i live in texas.
day of the rake when?
>live in texas
>nip bong ping pong bullpuppy
da fuk
>buttpup thread
>/k/ won't shut up about the cheapest one available
Just my first pass. Coupla "field mods" to make.
Surely it'd be easier to get a bigger-than-the-bag sheet of closed-cell foam and hot wire–cut the circumference to fit the bag and a PS90-sized hole in the middle.
Reused from shipping, I took what was on the dock. But yes. I hot motivated andxsaid
>let's do this
as other anon said needs refinement but always fun to see people diy something looks good
bull pups are fricking gay and most people who like them are noguns
bull pups are fricking rad and most people who dislike them are noguns
>bullpups are just like any gun and most people who slobber over them are immature gamers
Ftfy.
AUG-kun is the only good bullpup.
Set up an AUG for fighting at night. I'll wait.
no
nta and I don't have an Aug, only shot one once. But what would be the issue with it there? Get one with a rail, stick an NV friendly optic on top, maybe the suppressor plug and a can. What else is it missing? I can't see what it'd be worse than any other rifle. Genuinely curious.
>fighting at night
Sorry, I'll be asleep. Will be killing day sleepers though
Okay
Those rubber floor mats are really handy. Got a huge stack of 'em for next to nothing from a barn getting rid of them whatever I could fit in my truck and wish I'd gone back for more.
>that seperation of the top rail
I don't get it. They nearly had it perfect but for some reason they made the gas piston(?) part of it and I just go "WHY"
I never got it either then learned why a year ago and holy frick is it dumb. They have this stupid meme 1 rail section red dot, and the idea was that you would buy one of these for each barrel assembly kit and since you'd zero each one to a rail piece part of the kit you'd be able to have an rds right away without needing to zero. That's it. And the president apparently thinks that's the coolest thing.
Fricking stupid. It's the one major glaring design flaw in the rifle. Quality control is important for sure but that can be improved or one can go through support enough times, it's not a fundamental flaw. But that really sucks, is a major part of the reason the accuracy is so picky, why there is no 300bo micron. God damn it.
>why there is no 300bo micron
surely they could just do the fake dissipator thing and put the real gas block somewhere reasonable while keeping the "front sight" where it is
>surely they could just fix their stupid moron meme choice there into something non-moronic in a future gen3 rifle
Yes. But will they? And when?
>But that really sucks, is a major part of the reason the accuracy is so picky
Wait, is that single section of rail a contributor to why the gun underperforms for price? I've always figured that the MDRX was built to be a service rifle so a 2-3 MOA on ball was the norm
>Wait, is that single section of rail a contributor to why the gun underperforms for price?
It seems likely, or rather that the gas is fixed to it. A float block, avoiding that coupling, being able to optimize properly for cartridge can make a significant difference. You can't design any sort of aftermarket system for a variable block so that you could change the impact of dwell time.
Pic related, if you actually look at detailed testing of the thing it's not so much that the MDRX is merely "not that accurate" but that it's WEIRD, super variable. Like there's a bunch of ammo there, perfectly decent stuff, that's over 5moa, way worse than M80, and then there's also a bunch that's 2-3, a certain amount that is 1-2, and even one that's sub-moa. It's all over the map even for the same grain. I don't know though if anyone ever did any detailed testing with the gas "turned off" (ie, plugging the thing so that it basically becomes single shot) thus totally eliminating that variable, but it's a factor for other rifles and the mechanism makes sense. And again the ammo vs accuracy map is odd. It's not like it's just consistently 1-2 or 2-3 with any decent ammo.
How does the 556 version compare and do you figure the press fitted gas block changed anything?
>How does the 556 version compare
It's clearly better based on just smattering of tests, so is 6.5 for that matter (though reports still vary relatively speaking there and expectations are diff too). 308 is the least accurate for the MDR. But I don't have a comparably broad comparison for 5.56 on hand.
>and do you figure the press fitted gas block changed anything?
I assume it'd be some improvement but I haven't seen an update. That of course is one of the issues with all these constant revisions, doing a bunch of comprehensive tests is a bunch of work and can't just be redone on a dime plus most of us simply won't have the changes. I mean, working hard to keep improving is massively better than letting it rot on the vine, but not as good as getting it right day 1. And it makes it hard for anyone to know what they're buying unless they get it direct brand new from DT.
At some point hopefully they'll finally get it fully polished, barrel of quality and locked down, dump that rail segment, better handguard attachment system, and then do a formal MDR gen 3 release (I dunno, "MDRZ" maybe? MDROmega? MDRXxX420XxX?) bundling everything up so that anyone buying one knows they're getting it all and that can be recharacterized.
What is that series ordered by? Obviously weight in the first instance but the second index? At first glance the series looks like it has a clear and regular oscillation, but then you realise that the order isn't listed and the oscillation might as well have been introduced by the author.
Not sure what you mean? It's just a bar graph with ammo by grain and then moa/muzzle energy for each side by side (ie, E=1/2mv^2 that's it). There's no ordering beyond that afaik. The main point was to try to get a feel for if there was any notable link to accuracy vs bullet weight or energy in the broad sense, like "heavier is worse". But as you can see didn't look that way at least with those tests.
>E=1/2mv^2
Energy does not equal 1 or 2 muzzle velocitys with 2 carrots!
Doesn't count. The optic isn't on a riser.
If your setup/personal needs requires that then just stick a riser on it. It has a rail, so no different than an AR.
Keep moving those goalposts, auglet
It doesn't have a dedicated white light.
The tape switch looks hard to use for momentary shots.
The AUG is literally the only bullpup that matters tbh
I have a >Springfield vhs, no real complaints with it but have been wanting an aug. What am I missing out on?(other than aesthetics)
suppressor and nv are factors for me
>missing out on
Dunno enough about the Hellion/VHS-2 to say. Looks neat but while I've shot most of the others and have MDR I haven't had a chance with that one yet.
>suppressor and nv are factors for me
Aug isn't a particularly awesome suppressor platform but it's not awful anymore either thanks to it no longer needing special unobtanium for it, there's a gas plug with suppressor bleed for like $110 (though often out of stock, grab it when you see it). The one I tried wasn't gasy either. That part is fine.
As far as NV same as
what do you mean by that? If you're just thinking in terms of attachments there are various good 3rd party rail/mlock options like that Manticore one or just getting an A3. Then you can stick on the same stuff as you would anything else.
I’m aware of the gas plug, I thought corvus was the only option for extended rail. For nv just looking for space for laser and pressure pad in a non moronic place, not a fan of taping a switch to the vfg
>I thought corvus was the only option for extended rail.
I think there's a few now, and the A3 native too. So yeah I think it'd be perfectly workable. You'd need to ask actual Aug anons if there is anything special to consider in terms of backpressure, though as a general rule with gas operated less is always better. If you already have a low bp can guess that doesn't even matter.
I fell in love with the RFB in Battlefield 4 and I want one bad.
Get one
bullPOOPs are so cool man
The general dynamics bullpup should've won the contract.
Unrelated but the AUG is so cool, 16 inch barrel out of a 10 inch barrel sized gun is amazing.
>americans ever adopting a bullpup as a service arm
Anon, you simply have to accept that bullpups are european exclusive weapons with non-european enthusiasts. The tech is cool but having to retrain soldier is too heckin' hard :~~*(
>NO-O-O-O-O IT'S NOT JUST LAZY ENGINEERING!! ITS THE SAME THING AS AN AR BECAUSE THATS WHAT THE SOLDIERS ARE FAMILIAR WITH!!!!!!!
God i fricking hate Sig and other modern gun companies. I just want to join the military and get issued a full auto bullpup
An unironic counterargument to the retraining thing is that the infantry gets like 80% replaced once every 4 years anyway, and most new recruits are young men without prior firearms training.
Why don't bullpup transfer bars operate in tension instead of compression? Surely pulling on a long, skinny rod would result in a cleaner transfer and better trigger pull than trying to push on that same rod
Are these good or a meme? How reliable are they really? I'm considering this one or the KS7.