>”canard” is a French word for a type of water fowl. > the French used the word to describe the winglet attached to the front of the airframe. >the French used it in multiple aircraft >China steals it and uses it >”CHUYNA REVOLTIONIZE AVIATION!”
Canards are for improving take-off lift and/or maneuverability in a dogfight. Neither of which should be a factor in NGAD. If Boeing tack welded on a set, it was done as a hack, because the design wasn't working.
Maneuverability in a dogfight will become more important during the time NGAD becomes operational, because by then the first mover advantage of the US in stealth will be gone. Stealth aircraft will be the norm, which means that a) aircraft won't be able to see anything on their radars most of the time and b) if they do see something they won't be able to IFF because the turbine blades aren't visible to the radar (the West's preferred and only somewhat reliable IFF method).
As a consequence merging into dogfights will become more probable again. Staying invisible yourself and lobbing missiles from far away at easily observable and identifiable targets will be seen as an unrealistic priviledge which was enjoyed only during the transition from the pre-stealth to the stealth era by the first mover. Designing an aircraft under these old assumptions is akin to preparing for the last war.
>Stealth aircraft will be the norm
Russia and China can barely get a handful operational at a time while the US has hundreds
And their stealth has yet to be actually demonstrated for international observers.
>Russia and China can barely get a handful operational at a time while the US has hundreds
in an absolute state of dilapidated crisis, so much so they are available for combat less than 16% of the time
unironically the US should have made a couple dozen like Russia/China,
at least then they could have maybe kept them in the air
how many F35c's are deployed?
like 2 WHOLE squadrons out of "le 1000 F35's made"?
2?
thats it
2 F35 squadrons in the entire USN?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>how many F35c's are deployed? like 2 WHOLE squadrons out of "le 1000 F35's made" LOL! Potatoes!?
> The F-35 aircraft, with its advanced capabilities, represents a growing portion of DOD's tactical aviation fleet, with about 450 of the aircraft fielded. [GAO 'F-35 Aircraft: DOD and the Military Services Need to Reassess the Future Sustainment Strategy' Sept 2023]
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Russia and China can barely get a handful operational at a time while the US has hundreds
in an absolute state of dilapidated crisis, so much so they are available for combat less than 16% of the time
unironically the US should have made a couple dozen like Russia/China,
at least then they could have maybe kept them in the air
how many F35c's are deployed?
like 2 WHOLE squadrons out of "le 1000 F35's made"?
2?
thats it
2 F35 squadrons in the entire USN?
F-35C only has like 2 or 3 squadrons because most of the carriers don't have the upgrades to operate F-35Cs yet.
Those upgrades are ongoing and more F-35C squadrons will enter service over the next decade.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>t. drooling moron with the reading comprehension of a 5 year old.
Do you turd worlders somehow get off on being blatantly wrong about easily verifiable information, what gives?
Russia is a paper tiger. The war in Ukraine has made that clear. They only stay relevant because of nukes. Nothing more, nothing less.
China is a different animal. It would be foolish to base design characteristics of NGAD on the hopes that the primary adversary may not be able to pull things off. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Math and physics are the same for everyone. So it comes down to political will, industrial capacity and organizational ability. Xi is determined to unfrick his country's MIC from the old corruption.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>So it comes down to political will, industrial capacity and organizational ability
so the NGAD is doomed,
and is basically a .jpg vaporware project that will cost $trillions.
got it
4 months ago
Anonymous
You understand that NGAD is being developed in the United States, whose MIC has recently been validated as one of the most vital organizational structures of the free world and whose supply chain is comparable in scale to the collective circulatory systems of an entire pantheon of gods, right?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Let me present a counterargument:
Boeing
4 months ago
Anonymous
So why did he have missiles filled with water for most of his time in power? Why did he need the CIA to tell him this? The same CIA he supposedly expunged from his country.
>So it comes down to political will, industrial capacity and organizational ability
so the NGAD is doomed,
and is basically a .jpg vaporware project that will cost $trillions.
got it
>most recent aircraft from the US MIC is the B-21 >delivered under budget and on time
Kek.
4 months ago
Anonymous
wat?
4 months ago
Anonymous
lmfao .jpgs and photo-opps arent "serial coded deliveries"
4 months ago
Anonymous
>missiles filled with water
Most PLAAF missiles are solid booster, how do you fill it with water you ignorant moron?
Canards are useful for stability, but also they can be locked into angles where they are non-intrusive stealth wise. There is virtually no downsides to a well designed canard over none, as it means the plane can break off from an attack quicker.
Boeing’s was probably going to get thrown a bone after Lockhead and Northrup getting the F-35/B-21.
But they’re probably not going to do that with the recent, very public, Boeing quality issues. Even if Boeing’s military division is separate from civilian division, public sentiment and congressional pressure might put a stop to them getting any special treatment.
they are unironically better suited to making that kind of plane
4 months ago
Anonymous
> Boeing is great at making tankers!
4 months ago
Anonymous
who are you quoting
4 months ago
Anonymous
>t-take this six year old article!
homosexual. They have 80 of them already delivered.
4 months ago
Anonymous
Supposedly the boom issues are mostly ironed out now
4 months ago
Anonymous
When they first tested raising and lowering the boom, the motor used was far inadequate and resulted in the boom falling to the floor. Ngl it was funny
4 months ago
Anonymous
None of which actually work to spec. Hence the billions in write downs Boeing is taking on the program.
4 months ago
Anonymous
If we tell you those 15 are part of the original buy, analogous to a line item release on a blanket PO and not a new buy, you will be so sad.
And if we tell you those are all fixed price and Boeing loses $10s of millions on each, you may just break down and cry.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>consistently loses competitions to the A330 MRTT >$7 billion over budget on a $.9 billion program >years behind schedule >boom problems only partially fixed >camera problems not going to be fixed until 2025 >still having basic delivery problems of random parts and debris being loose inside the aircraft
The KC-46 is a fricking turd and the Air Force should have just stayed with the KC-45, which just fricking works. Boeing can't build planes anymore since they fired all the stateside engineers and outsourced design work to their Inidan and Russian design centers. It's been years and the piece of shit still isn't combat certified. The only brigh spot of the program is that it's a firm-fixed-price contract and that al the budget overruns are being eaten by the business suits at Boeing instead of being dumped on taxpayers. Pic rel is a plane that actually works and what we could have had instead of this piece of shit 767.
McDonald Douglas and it's consequences have been a disaster for American aviation.
Euro canards are a different thing, they are on different axis as the wings while the J20 canards are on the same axis.
They have very different aerodynamics.
Also, Euro canards increase RCS by a lot, but tge lifting canards of the J20 doesn't.
Why are you seething so much? Is your local McDonalds closed today or something? It’s just a joke. Yet China continues to live as you say ‘rent free’ in your mind.
Yes the Chinese have ruined the board and not the america superiority cum slurpers that cannot recognize irony and humor.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>america superiority cum slurpers
vatBlack folk always project
project the cum chugger moniker onto others, project American dominance onto themselves, project their shilling onto actual posters, etc
4 months ago
Anonymous
I’m a registered democrat but I won’t be voting for either side in the upcoming election.
4 months ago
Anonymous
no one cares homosexual
4 months ago
Anonymous
I only brought it up because anon was going to go through the whole gambit of calling me everything except an American born citizen. I expect to get called a Rajesh or Juan next.
Point is canards don’t make a plane shit.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>t. Chengdu design bureau
Your canards kinda suck
4 months ago
Anonymous
What’s your problem? Are you having a melty?
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Blacke-out number >Automagically the "J-**" is translated as J-20
Vatnik tier of brain damage.
4 months ago
Anonymous
are you saying chinese flankers are this bad instead?
4 months ago
Anonymous
Prajeet tier BS
4 months ago
Anonymous
> canards don’t make a plane shit.
Correct Ramesh. Because that’s backwards.
Canards don’t make a plane shit. Planes have canards BECAUSE they’re shit. Canards are an indicator of shittiness, not a cause
4 months ago
Anonymous
Okay show me your degree in aeronautical engineering. What grounds do you have to support your claim?
4 months ago
Anonymous
You first. Show me how they’re good.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>registered Democrat
Leave my country, then apologize to me for being born in it. You do not belong here, you never will. And before you accuse me of being a chudlican or whatever tired insult your party stole from an 80s movie, they all need to die too. Except Rand Paul, he's the only one that gets it, but he's on thin ice, as all career politicians should be at all times.
4 months ago
Anonymous
I only registered dem because I like John Kerry. It’s not like party sides mean anything anymore to the deep state. Wars will always happen at the interest of those who profit most.
>Ha, gottem! I was only pretending to be moronic!
Also, McDonald's is the bottom of the bottom tier these days while they charge like they're fricking Hard Rock Cafe.
It's take Culver's over Micky Ds these days.
If they're going to charge nearly $20+ for a double burger, drink and fries I'll just go to The Habbit.
My concern is the RCS. Didn't the j-20 get a lot of shit over how the canards frick with RCS of the plane making it shit at stealth? Wouldn't make sense for a 6th gen that's built for stealth to have elements that frick with it.
It's Boeing. They're probably gonna lose then claim their entry actually wasn't the final version and the real entry was gonna be much less laughably bad. Just like with the X-32.
>Didn't the j-20 get a lot of shit over how the canards frick with RCS of the plane making it shit at stealth?
Yes, because online morons think they can calculate RCS by eyes
Everybody crying about canards and muh j20. Smooth brain chinks don't realize design has no other fins, ventral or dorsal. Reduction of extraneous control surfaces is absolutely where stealth is heading next.
>Do you escalator chow morons seriously think Boeing revealed either of their NGAD designs in a throwaway video about digital engineering?
unironically "Yes"
this is the us-MIC 2024
thats like exactly, precisely something they would do
J20 bros we’re eating good
Canards look cool, go frick yourself.
Except on the J20, that thing is just out of proportion.
Where were you when China revolutionized America’s NGAD design?
>canards didn't exist before J-20
Wew
>”canard” is a French word for a type of water fowl.
> the French used the word to describe the winglet attached to the front of the airframe.
>the French used it in multiple aircraft
>China steals it and uses it
>”CHUYNA REVOLTIONIZE AVIATION!”
Canards are for improving take-off lift and/or maneuverability in a dogfight. Neither of which should be a factor in NGAD. If Boeing tack welded on a set, it was done as a hack, because the design wasn't working.
Maneuverability in a dogfight will become more important during the time NGAD becomes operational, because by then the first mover advantage of the US in stealth will be gone. Stealth aircraft will be the norm, which means that a) aircraft won't be able to see anything on their radars most of the time and b) if they do see something they won't be able to IFF because the turbine blades aren't visible to the radar (the West's preferred and only somewhat reliable IFF method).
As a consequence merging into dogfights will become more probable again. Staying invisible yourself and lobbing missiles from far away at easily observable and identifiable targets will be seen as an unrealistic priviledge which was enjoyed only during the transition from the pre-stealth to the stealth era by the first mover. Designing an aircraft under these old assumptions is akin to preparing for the last war.
NGAD is optimized for stealth and range. If it gets in a dogfight it's toast.
NB4 "We'll just put railguns on it!"
>Stealth aircraft will be the norm
Russia and China can barely get a handful operational at a time while the US has hundreds
And their stealth has yet to be actually demonstrated for international observers.
>Russia and China can barely get a handful operational at a time while the US has hundreds
in an absolute state of dilapidated crisis, so much so they are available for combat less than 16% of the time
unironically the US should have made a couple dozen like Russia/China,
at least then they could have maybe kept them in the air
how many F35c's are deployed?
like 2 WHOLE squadrons out of "le 1000 F35's made"?
2?
thats it
2 F35 squadrons in the entire USN?
>how many F35c's are deployed? like 2 WHOLE squadrons out of "le 1000 F35's made" LOL! Potatoes!?
> The F-35 aircraft, with its advanced capabilities, represents a growing portion of DOD's tactical aviation fleet, with about 450 of the aircraft fielded. [GAO 'F-35 Aircraft: DOD and the Military Services Need to Reassess the Future Sustainment Strategy' Sept 2023]
F-35C only has like 2 or 3 squadrons because most of the carriers don't have the upgrades to operate F-35Cs yet.
Those upgrades are ongoing and more F-35C squadrons will enter service over the next decade.
>t. drooling moron with the reading comprehension of a 5 year old.
Do you turd worlders somehow get off on being blatantly wrong about easily verifiable information, what gives?
Russia is a paper tiger. The war in Ukraine has made that clear. They only stay relevant because of nukes. Nothing more, nothing less.
China is a different animal. It would be foolish to base design characteristics of NGAD on the hopes that the primary adversary may not be able to pull things off. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Math and physics are the same for everyone. So it comes down to political will, industrial capacity and organizational ability. Xi is determined to unfrick his country's MIC from the old corruption.
>So it comes down to political will, industrial capacity and organizational ability
so the NGAD is doomed,
and is basically a .jpg vaporware project that will cost $trillions.
got it
You understand that NGAD is being developed in the United States, whose MIC has recently been validated as one of the most vital organizational structures of the free world and whose supply chain is comparable in scale to the collective circulatory systems of an entire pantheon of gods, right?
Let me present a counterargument:
Boeing
So why did he have missiles filled with water for most of his time in power? Why did he need the CIA to tell him this? The same CIA he supposedly expunged from his country.
>most recent aircraft from the US MIC is the B-21
>delivered under budget and on time
Kek.
wat?
lmfao .jpgs and photo-opps arent "serial coded deliveries"
>missiles filled with water
Most PLAAF missiles are solid booster, how do you fill it with water you ignorant moron?
Warheads are solid booster too?
>t hydrocephalus
Canards are useful for stability, but also they can be locked into angles where they are non-intrusive stealth wise. There is virtually no downsides to a well designed canard over none, as it means the plane can break off from an attack quicker.
Thirdie mindset
Based
>boeing
>bigger
>and a dorito
> F-22 Combat radius : 470 nanometers
Uh ?
nautical miles
We in quantumania now
Defeating the Chinese quantum menace at the source.
From the rumors the airforce is more interested in boeing's design, but are more confident in lockheed's ability to actually follow through.
I'm not sure who they're going to go with though.
Boeing’s was probably going to get thrown a bone after Lockhead and Northrup getting the F-35/B-21.
But they’re probably not going to do that with the recent, very public, Boeing quality issues. Even if Boeing’s military division is separate from civilian division, public sentiment and congressional pressure might put a stop to them getting any special treatment.
>MQ-25
>KC-46
Enough bones for them
>Boeing is now sequestered to fuel tanker (water boy) duty
Absolute kek
they are unironically better suited to making that kind of plane
> Boeing is great at making tankers!
who are you quoting
>t-take this six year old article!
homosexual. They have 80 of them already delivered.
Supposedly the boom issues are mostly ironed out now
When they first tested raising and lowering the boom, the motor used was far inadequate and resulted in the boom falling to the floor. Ngl it was funny
None of which actually work to spec. Hence the billions in write downs Boeing is taking on the program.
If we tell you those 15 are part of the original buy, analogous to a line item release on a blanket PO and not a new buy, you will be so sad.
And if we tell you those are all fixed price and Boeing loses $10s of millions on each, you may just break down and cry.
>consistently loses competitions to the A330 MRTT
>$7 billion over budget on a $.9 billion program
>years behind schedule
>boom problems only partially fixed
>camera problems not going to be fixed until 2025
>still having basic delivery problems of random parts and debris being loose inside the aircraft
The KC-46 is a fricking turd and the Air Force should have just stayed with the KC-45, which just fricking works. Boeing can't build planes anymore since they fired all the stateside engineers and outsourced design work to their Inidan and Russian design centers. It's been years and the piece of shit still isn't combat certified. The only brigh spot of the program is that it's a firm-fixed-price contract and that al the budget overruns are being eaten by the business suits at Boeing instead of being dumped on taxpayers. Pic rel is a plane that actually works and what we could have had instead of this piece of shit 767.
McDonald Douglas and it's consequences have been a disaster for American aviation.
> Stealth (radar, IR, visual)
> visual
How would they achieve that?
Do they mean low visibility or plain magic invisible?
>hey i thought i saw a weird half invisible flying dorito piloted by a gorrilla smoking a cigar
>He doesn't know
I wouldn't worry about it
We received another tech package from Pleiades. Don't worry about it.
>retvrn to atari
> a fricking panini press rafale
The upper row looks more like warp nacelles
>boeing
>America copying China
Many such cases
You can stop samegayging now chink
It may shock you but there is a billion samegays living in China right now.
50 yuan have been added to your account
xie xie
Uhh, are Chinks now setting the trends that others follow?
>chinks
>not frenchies
It's so pretty. I love the Rafale.
>It's so pretty. I love the Rafale.
4u anon
Euro canards are a different thing, they are on different axis as the wings while the J20 canards are on the same axis.
They have very different aerodynamics.
Also, Euro canards increase RCS by a lot, but tge lifting canards of the J20 doesn't.
>Euro canards increase RCS by a lot, but the lifting canards of the J20 doesn't.
Lol
Lmao even.
Your source is your butthole on both claims.
>Other countries create canard aircraft
>*silence*
>One US prototype happens to uses canards
>LITERALLY COPYING CHYNA
What did /k/ mean by this?
Why are you seething so much? Is your local McDonalds closed today or something? It’s just a joke. Yet China continues to live as you say ‘rent free’ in your mind.
They can die rent free too. Just step outside onto a city street. Lmao
I don’t live in Chicago
>Pointing out flawed logic = bruh why u mad xd
Thanks for telling me your mental state btw
You are very fragile like porcelain eagle.
go eat gutter oil and die instead of shitting up the board, chang
Yes the Chinese have ruined the board and not the america superiority cum slurpers that cannot recognize irony and humor.
>america superiority cum slurpers
vatBlack folk always project
project the cum chugger moniker onto others, project American dominance onto themselves, project their shilling onto actual posters, etc
I’m a registered democrat but I won’t be voting for either side in the upcoming election.
no one cares homosexual
I only brought it up because anon was going to go through the whole gambit of calling me everything except an American born citizen. I expect to get called a Rajesh or Juan next.
Point is canards don’t make a plane shit.
>t. Chengdu design bureau
Your canards kinda suck
What’s your problem? Are you having a melty?
>Blacke-out number
>Automagically the "J-**" is translated as J-20
Vatnik tier of brain damage.
are you saying chinese flankers are this bad instead?
Prajeet tier BS
> canards don’t make a plane shit.
Correct Ramesh. Because that’s backwards.
Canards don’t make a plane shit. Planes have canards BECAUSE they’re shit. Canards are an indicator of shittiness, not a cause
Okay show me your degree in aeronautical engineering. What grounds do you have to support your claim?
You first. Show me how they’re good.
>registered Democrat
Leave my country, then apologize to me for being born in it. You do not belong here, you never will. And before you accuse me of being a chudlican or whatever tired insult your party stole from an 80s movie, they all need to die too. Except Rand Paul, he's the only one that gets it, but he's on thin ice, as all career politicians should be at all times.
I only registered dem because I like John Kerry. It’s not like party sides mean anything anymore to the deep state. Wars will always happen at the interest of those who profit most.
>Ha, gottem! I was only pretending to be moronic!
Also, McDonald's is the bottom of the bottom tier these days while they charge like they're fricking Hard Rock Cafe.
It's take Culver's over Micky Ds these days.
If they're going to charge nearly $20+ for a double burger, drink and fries I'll just go to The Habbit.
It's just butthurt chink shills
What about the gaping America/Israel shills crying right now?
My concern is the RCS. Didn't the j-20 get a lot of shit over how the canards frick with RCS of the plane making it shit at stealth? Wouldn't make sense for a 6th gen that's built for stealth to have elements that frick with it.
It's Boeing. They're probably gonna lose then claim their entry actually wasn't the final version and the real entry was gonna be much less laughably bad. Just like with the X-32.
>submit design
>IT'S NOT EVEN THE FINAL FORM
Sounds like they just make something real quick the night before then submit it
Boeing got screwed in the JSF
USAF gave boeing and Lockheed $750 mil budget
Boeing stuck with the budget
Lockheed intentionally didn't and went over
Then USAF rewards Lockheed
They were prototypes
So yeah it wasn't the final version
Neither was the Lockheed x-35
Anyways x-35 was always gonna win because the X-32 was just ugly
USAF is all into looks
Also why they preferred the F-22, the YF-23 was considered weird looking
Even though YF-23 was stealthier and had longer ranged and better suited for the upcoming pacific war
>Didn't the j-20 get a lot of shit over how the canards frick with RCS of the plane making it shit at stealth?
Yes, because online morons think they can calculate RCS by eyes
>there are people that think that human eyes and radars work the same way
Nuh uh, I stuffed this 3d model I got off cgtrader.com into some radar simulator shit and made some crazy lookin charts
Pretty sure part of stealth is angles to redirect radar waves
You can see angles
>t DK moron
Ops, it seems that we just hurted the feeling of american people.
if it's Boeing, I ain't going
politicsgays get the rope
Don't worry, they snap off after takeoff.
Everybody crying about canards and muh j20. Smooth brain chinks don't realize design has no other fins, ventral or dorsal. Reduction of extraneous control surfaces is absolutely where stealth is heading next.
implessive
Canards are gay
Why the frick would the military trust Boeing of all companies to not deliver absolute garbage these days?
Wyvern-bros we're so back
Cool in the fictional verse. Probably be plagued with the same problems as the f-14 (expensive maintenance nightmare) in the real world
Boeing can't engineer shit
doomed to fail company
mismanaged and outsourced right into the ground
J-20chads we just keep winning
implessive!
Good, means Boeing’s entry gonna lose again. As they should, can’t let them get away with shitty QC problems by awarding them big contract.
AHHAHAHAHHA
a
AHAHHAHAAHHAH
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
>"IMPLESSIVE"
HAHHAHHAHAH
AHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAH
USA numba WAN!
Do you escalator chow morons seriously think Boeing revealed either of their NGAD designs in a throwaway video about digital engineering?
>Do you escalator chow morons seriously think Boeing revealed either of their NGAD designs in a throwaway video about digital engineering?
unironically "Yes"
this is the us-MIC 2024
thats like exactly, precisely something they would do
Why does this look like you took a picture of a display on the Enterprise-D with your cell phone?
>canards are stoopid, they ruin your RCS
>but if you push them few meters back and call them a stabilizer they're completely fine