Blackpowder thread

Yeah. Let's talk smokepoles. My Traditions Hawken Ijust finished up. Really looking forward to my first year using one for hunting.

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What would be the theoretical minimal specs for a black powder projectile that would beat IIIa Kevlar?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Idk but you would want to fire something hard, pointy, and narrow. A sabot with a steel dart of some kind would probably be your best bet.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Probably not THAT much more than already have existed.
      I think if you had a nitro proofed barrel you could easily achieve body armor penetrating loads.
      Also, people have tested that stuff, e.g.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you went smaller diameter you might be able to with conical projectiles. The biggest hurdle is that they use solid lead which is soft. If you had a steel ball in a musket barrel and still got 1400-1500fps then that would likely work. A sabot in a rifled barrel is probably your best bet though

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A lead ball is the traditional muzzeloader projectile, but before those were in use very early guns fired what were basically arrows or darts. A simple dart made with a wooden body tipped with a sharp steel point, like that of an arrow, would have little trouble going through kevlar.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      According to an old reloading manual I read, a .45-120 loaded with a round ball could get over 2kfps with black powder, so probably something like that if you want a round lead ball. Obviously as you increase material strength and introduce things like conical projectiles the requirements get lower.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Realistically? Picrel.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not him but IV8888's miniature cannon, which I think is a 1 or 2 inch gun, was fired at two level III steel plates on separate occasions, it shattered one but "only" bent the other.
        So I suspect the howitzer would be a little overkill.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >IV8888
          Wow its a decade since he made interesting videos of shooting old surp. Now he is just a much more boring version of infowars.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Could 45-120 do it?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It is definitely likely, considering 45-120 could supposedly get well over 1500fps with rounds significantly heavier and longer than what IIIa is rated for. Obviously a brass or copper projectile would do even better, but I suspect you'd get through even with simple lead, the much fatter 500SW has been known to punch through after all.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I kinda want a flintlock Pennsylvania in .45 or .50, what with percussion caps costing an arm, and a leg now, my revolvers are just going to chew through what I have left.

    That said, I really like my 53 Enfield, and my wheelguns (from a .31 pocket, all the way to a Walker).

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For some wierd reason I want the smallest squirrel rifle possible.
    Does anyone make a 22 musket? 25 maybe?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've not seen any .25 caliber barrels, but I've seen longrifles built with them. .32 seems to be the most common small caliber for black powder barrels, anything smaller and you might need to look into a custom barrel.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm interested in getting into black powder. I've done some cursory research, but still have some questions. Would some anons kindly point me in the right direction?

    >Are original guns safe or should I just get a repro?
    >What repro brands are reputable?
    >Better to start with a pistol or rifle?
    >Better to start with a rifle or smoothbore longgun?
    >Typical cost of decent rifle?
    >Typical cost per shot for rifle?
    >Typical MOA for rifle vs smoothbore?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      P.s. I don't have much interest in inline black powder or reloading brass with black powder. Looking more toward larping with a flintlock or percussion cap rifle/musket/pistol.

      Black powder shotgun sounds fun, but I don't even have a "modern" shotgun that takes shells, so doesn't seem like the right time to get into black powder shotgun yet.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>Are original guns safe or should I just get a repro?
      Depends on the original. Some are in perfect condition, others are in terrible condition, and everything in between. Outward appearance is not the only thing that matters, if someone fired the gun and didn't clean it properly afterward there could be serious rust pitting inside the barrel and that can make the gun unsafe. An original can be inspected to determine if it is safe to shoot or not.

      >>What repro brands are reputable?
      can't help you there, all of mine are antiques

      to start with a pistol or rifle?
      to start with a rifle or smoothbore longgun?
      Doesn't matter, it's all personal preference.

      cost of decent rifle?
      I dunno about repros, originals could be anywhere from a hundred bucks and up depending on the specific model, condition, etc.

      cost per shot for rifle?
      You can easily do the math on this yourself. Black powder costs about $30 a pound. 1 lb= 7000 grains. You can then do the math for how many shots you'd get out of that depending on how much your gun takes. 100 grains would be a pretty stout load for a .54 cal rifle so that 1 lb of powder would give you seventy shots. .54 cal round balls are about $0.25 each if you buy them, if you cast them yourself they could be much less, it depends on where you source your lead. And then there's the cost of the percussion cap if you're using a percussion gun, and perhaps the patch if you're shooting a patched ball. That's a couple cents for the percussion cap, the patches/wads could be a couple cents if you buy them or could be free if you scrounge them up.

      BTW, I highly recommend you get your hands on a copy of the "Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual" published by Lyman.

      MOA for rifle vs smoothbore?
      All of my muzzleloaders are smoothbore while all of my rifled BP weapons fire cartridges so I can't really give you a firsthand comparison.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        holy larp

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          not that anon but why do you say larp? I see no larp mainly because I shoot antiques myself

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            larp as in nothing that anon said is true and he's telling a fib online

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      For long guns it's all pedersoli. Revolvers it's a toss up between Uberti, and Pietta. Ubertis are somewhat more historically accurate, and they hide the "black powder only" mandatory markings better (under the cocking lever), but their quality has dropped in recent years. Still, if you want a Walker/Dragoon, or one of the pocket models, Pietta doesn't make any. Also, pietta tends to make a lot of brass frame, and .44 cal "navy" colts (with octagonal barrels) that never existed, but if you can get a .36 navy, or the 1860 army, or Remington, they're good.

      Personally, my .31 pocket wells fargo is my favourite, along with my 1851 navy, though I like the walker, 1860, and 1862 almost as much.

      One thing to consider, especially if getting a long gun, is a flintlock - either to larp as an 18th century frontiersman, or just because percussion caps right now cost an arm and a leg (if you can get any).

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shot per round is low, but not crazy. What is low is your round count. If you shoot 20 shots youve been at the range for a long time and have had a lot of fun. Those 20 shots probably cost you 15 bucks.
      >Smooth MOA ~20-40.
      >Rifle 2-5.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >>Are original guns safe or should I just get a repro?
      it depends, but you arent smart enough or experienced enough to figure it out so buy a repro

      >>What repro brands are reputable?
      they all are, there are no bad ones in current production

      to start with a pistol or rifle?
      i recommend starting with a single barrel, not a revolver. so either a single barrel pistol or a musket or rifle. they are much more forgiving and simpler and after you go a few times to the range and get the hang of the basics then go get yourself a revolver. as a noob if you start out with one you will have high odds of being that moron on the range stuck with loaded chambers but unsure why your revolver is jammed or wont work. cleaning is also so nice and easy with the simple single barrel pistols instead of all the mechanical parts and crevices of the revolver.

      to start with a rifle or smoothbore longgun?
      depends on what your range abilities are. my range is pissy about shotguns and i can only use them on the trap range. mustkets are easier to load and keep running, rifles will have a slightly higher learning curve as you learn how much to swab or clean between shots. youll get your ball stuck halfway down the barrel a few times and look like a monkey beating on your ramrod to push it down, probably break a rod. it happens to beginners often. but they are both fine, its just the musket is more idiot proof.

      cost of decent rifle?
      you should be able to find decent ones used for about $350-$500, maybe $800-$1200 new for the italian replicas which are good quality. very nice custom ones are expensive and they can easily cost thousands

      cost per shot for rifle?
      depnds on what you get the components for and what caliber you get. i dont know what current prices are but the nice thing about muzzleloaders is you can load on the fly for each shot, so you can use light powder loads tosave$

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MOA for rifle vs smoothbore?
      depends on the distance but say at 100 yards, a good rifle loaded and fired by an expert who has found the guns preferred load should get under 3 MOA assuming good environmental conditions. a good smoothbore patched well and loaded and fired by the same expert should get under 8 MOA

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        wasn't whitworth like 1 MOA

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Petition to rename black powder to morondust

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Dindu powder.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        aye

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anyone make their own blackpowder gun? I want to try a simple musket and I don’t think it would be that hard.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Any other eurobros ITT?
    I don't want this thread to turn into /american felons general/

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      american felons probably can get better guns than blackpowder ones kek, most of the people who buy blackpowder are people who likes antique, and Clint Eastwood larpers.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is Armi San Marco a good brand? They were doing blackpowder guns in the 1960s-70s.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I had few of their revolvers and imho its very mixed bag. Had a Colt Pocket in unusual 6 shot configuration, finish was beautiful, unfortunately internal parts were total crap and cylinder seemed to be made of plasticine. Had a Walker that didnt had any of those issues and a Dragoon, again with soft parts. Quality seemed to slip in later years, especially aggravating is soft steel.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I found one from the 60s on the net, tempted to buy it as they are quite rare now, should it be the best quality?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Check it out for obvious signs of wear, like worn out cylinder cutouts (the part that wear is supposed to be cheap and easily replaceable cylinder stop, not cylinder itself), back of the cylinder and hammer face. If they look sharp the chance is they were properly heat treated. Check if the chambers are axial with the bore.
          In any case I wouldnt be inclined to pay for it as much as for newly manufactured Uberti Walker, as the replacement parts will be harder to get.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    give me what i want italians

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      But they did it is called a vetterli-vitali 1870/87 and it fires....black powder cartridges and is charger loading in blocks of 4 or the Swiss Vetterli, 12 shot tube magazine bolt action black powder cartridges? How about the Beaumont-Vitali? Also charger loading but with a spike bayonet instead of the Italians or Swiss sword bayonet. Or you could go with the first military straight pull the 1886 mannlicher black powder as is everything else, also charger loading? or if you like Germans you could try the Mauser 70/84 with its 8 round tubular magazine. All of these are repeating black powder magazine fed military rifles, of excellent manufactured quality, intended for many many decades of services use. Hard hitting accurate well made repeating rifles also designed for the serious use of the bayonet. IOf you like single shots there is the Remington rolling block, Danish, Swedish, French or Egyptian, British or Danish snider, French Gras , British martini Henry, Austrian wanzl or werndl, French Tabatière rifle, German Mauser 1870, Italian vetterli 1870 Dutch Beaumont 1871, Comblai 1870 etc etc or the American Springfield copy of the Wanzl trapdoor

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not that anon, but what do any of those guns have to do with the Root revolver? If anon has a hardon for a revolver he's not going to give a crap about those other guns.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What is the opinion on Traditions build kits? I'm looking at a 1842 harpers ferry 69 cal rifle kit that I really want to snag but I'm not sure it's any good. Thoughts?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The kits are fine, whether or not the finished product turns out any good is all up to your care, attention, and skill. I don't have experience with the Harper's Ferry model specifically but I have built three of their other models (Mountain rifle, blunderbuss, and the trapper pistol)

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      My understanding is Tradition is just a brand of American importer, that sources guns from various manufacturers, either spanish or italian.
      Their cheaper rifles and pistols are made by Ardesa, previously Dikar and are useable but of rather unimpressive quality (cast parts made of alloys, beechwood stocks, iffy locks). If 1842 Smoothbore is the same model that was made by italian Armi Sport (Armi Chiappa) then it has very good opinions, along with its 69 cal rifled version. Here in Europe reenactors like them very much as its well made from quality materials, roughly on par with Pedersoli guns.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's what mine in the OP is. I think they're fine to build as a first rifle, but I'm going with a Kibler kit for mwp84jy next one.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm eagerly waiting for my Martini Henry to arrive though also morbidly curious since it's from hunters lodge. For 150 as long as the bore and or lever/firing pin are in good shape I'll be fine. Got it for a restoration peice

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Where the fuck do I find a Pedersoli Brown Bess? I want to larp as a redcoat and they're out of stock everywhere

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Try to hookup with the boomers on the muzzleloadingforum or local reenactment groups of facebook etc., they often sell used guns, sometimes even at comparatively atractive prices.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Will be cleaning my antique revolver any day now.
    Anyone know a cheap kind of wood i can practice making into a musket stock or maybe how to restore a musket stock that has some parts broken and fragile?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There's lots of good videos of stock work on YT. Check out Mark Novak / Anvil Gunsmithing and Larry Potterfield / Midway USA.
      Gun stocks are most commonly made out of walnut though other woods have been used. Different woods "work" differently so if you practice using a piece of pine softwood lumber from the home improvement store that's not going to be very similar to when you carve a real stock out of hardwood like walnut. I was lucky in that I have a relative who is into woodworking so I was able to cop scraps from him for various projects. You can buy stock blanks, these vary in cost, you might check if the lower end ones are within your budget.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are there any good options for custom long rifle build kits? I've never built a rifle before so I don't want to start from scratch. Kibler kits look nice but they only have two models to choose from.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Kibler kits are by fare the easiest to assemble, but like you noted the offerings are limited. He's coming out with another rifle, the woodsrunner or something of that nature, I'm not sure of the details. Chambers kits are also good from what I've gathered, albeit a little more work intensive. For what it's worth I've no experience with either kit, I've only been working on building rifles from blanks.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How feasible is it for a novice to complete one of these more labor intensive kits? I've done some woodworking before but never any inletting or carving. I'd like to build a rifle of a particular style but, due to my limited ability, without any of the fancy carving and decoration.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          My only woodworking experience prior to starting my longrifle was 2 years of woodshop in high school, and barely any of the skills I learned there translated to working a piece of curly maple with chisels and rasps. I'd say it's very feasible for a novice who is patient and good with his hands to complete if he has the right tools and they're sharp. ML building books also help a lot, but if you don't want to spend any money yet the Mike Brooks tutorial is a free pdf that will walk you through building a longrifle from a blank that has the barrel channel inlet and ramrod hole drilled.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can anyone recommend any source for historically appropriate wheellock components? Specifically the lock or sets of castings for the lock. I'm looking to build a reproduction wheellock grenade launcher. I have a metal lathe and can easily turn the barrel myself but I need lock parts.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    when are caps coming back

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There were musket caps at the last gunshow I went to.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How good is the OG of OGs aka the Colt Paterson?

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >My Traditions Hawken Ijust finished up.
    Have you taken it to the range yet?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Have you taken it to the range yet?

      Yeah..still working on sighting it in. I replaced the factory sight it came with using a silver one. Decent groups at 30 yards so far.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what is good source of carbon for BP ? I tried willow charcoal but it sucked, slow burn af
    would it help if I H2SO4 some sugar ? theoretically it makes pure carbon

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Need a lot of available surface area. You can buy the proper charcoal from pyrotechnic supply stores. I wouldn't bother running through a bunch of sulfuric acid to make it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Willow is fine, you're just making it wrong

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm thinking about getting a blackpowder revolver, specifically a Pietta 1851 Navy. I expect I will spend a lot more time fingerfucking it than shooting it, so how do I make it safe to dryfire the gun without damaging it, if there is any way to do that?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I screwed up the hammer on mine from it being my fidget object when I was on the phone.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Honestly that's half the reason I want to get one. I'm always playing with stuff on my desk.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Unless you do it 24/7, I doubt much dryfire is going to damage your gun, especially if it's a brand new replica.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cut some vinyl tubing and stick that on the nipple.

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