There's a lot of different kinds of birdshot, different sized pellets, different powder loads, some are lead, some are annealed steel, some use flite control wads. Sure, some loads will struggle to penetrate skin at close ranges, others, like turkey shot, will actually cut pretty deep at close ranges.
People have been killed on the spot with birdshot before.
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
we did this a month ago and all the anti-birdshot gays got BTFO after people started posting actual photos of birdshot injuries at single room distances on actual fricking human corpses.
I didn't say it didn't kill, or even that it couldn't kill on the spot, I just meant that it isn't a reliable kill.
Bruh. At room distance in a house, you're still getting gir with a load before it spreads out. I used to use it all the time on pitbulls that city frickers dropped off on the ranch since we were right off a highway exit out of a major city. I'm not wasting slugs or buckshot on Black person tier things.
Name one that is not only not shit for self defense but also is as good or better than #4 buck in applications where overpenetration is concerned, those being the absolute only cases you'd opt for anything but 00 buck or slugs.
Which is why people shot with bird shot routinely run away with what looks like a rash, right? Even in the case of the OP, dude made it to the hospital and probably reasonably could have been saved if he just held out a little longer, then his victim might have had to explain in a court of law why he's a white supremacist shooting innocent babies who did nothing wrong.
https://i.imgur.com/NwBhDs3.jpg
[...]
Couldn't even get past a fat chicks sternum at point blank range.
we did this a month ago and all the anti-birdshot gays got BTFO after people started posting actual photos of birdshot injuries at single room distances on actual fricking human corpses.
Dunno. I think getting shot at all would deter most attackers. Generally speaking, most folks aren’t big on the whole “dying” thing.
if you don't drop the doctor/engineer stealing your TV for good, they'll summon some oven dodger lawyer and get you tossed in prison for daring to harm a superior caste
>thatisthejoke.jpg
most morons here simply use the term "birdshot". They have no clue what the sizes are, what they are called, or what each is used for.
Name one that is not only not shit for self defense but also is as good or better than #4 buck in applications where overpenetration is concerned, those being the absolute only cases you'd opt for anything but 00 buck or slugs.
That's 3 shots point blank with one hitting the top of his skull. The real lesson of this video is never hang out with hood nigs if you're white. I'm sticking with #4 buck and avoiding wigs and nigs
Only one hit his torso, the first hit his arm and nearly blew it off and the "headshot" was a grazing wound, as he said he pushed the barrel away from his head. Actually it was likely just ricochet after hitting the ground as the spread at point blank range would be negligible.
Although yes, the most important lesson is definitely never relax around blacks.
Which is why people shot with bird shot routinely run away with what looks like a rash, right? Even in the case of the OP, dude made it to the hospital and probably reasonably could have been saved if he just held out a little longer, then his victim might have had to explain in a court of law why he's a white supremacist shooting innocent babies who did nothing wrong.
>shot stay pretty much together acting as a pseudo slug,
Each pellet slows down and carries energy by itself, not as a solid mass. Air resistance acts on all of them. The only way the penetrate deeper is by “stacking” and having the pellets in front clear tissue for ones behind them. >the wad by itself can penetrate enough to kill
Absolutely not
>the wad by itself can penetrate enough to kill
Up really close, and scoring just the luckiest hit without the target being able to get medical attention, maybe. Nonetheless, the wad is just a wad and the kind of damage it can do next to just a fraction of a load of birdshot is completely insignificant, what it adds to the wound is academical next to what your shot or slug does.
While sacrificing already low shot capacity and increasing recoil significant. Steel also has the downside of penetrating less because it is less dense than lead
It might pattern better in your shotgun, more pellets for more likelyhood to hit a vital, you might just already have it on hand.
>reducing the legal trouble for the shooter
You will have more legal trouble if they live. Dead men tell no tales >I'm convinced, birdshot is a good home defense round
It’s not. Just because this instance he stopped, doesn’t mean they always will. Relying on pain is no guarantee. Relying on physical incapacitation always works
Dude he was declared dead by medical personnel and had an out of body experience. It wasn't fricking pain compliance you zero attention span zoomer who can't watch a 15 minute video.
They same can be said of any fricking round too of someone miraculously surviving it.
>It might pattern better in your shotgun
Irrelevant at HD ranges. Even 8 shot from a cylinder bore is staying on a dinner plate at 5 yards. Buckshot will always be tighter anyhow at these distances >more pellets for more likelyhood to hit a vital
Doesn't matter if they don't penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals. And again, patterns are so tight at HD ranges you're going to hit it with either or you are missing. >you might just already have it on hand.
Then that's laziness since every place that sells ammo has buckshot somewhere. It's $5 for a box of 5 that will theoretically last you until you need it. Also if you are saying birdshot is the only option you should use it, well no shit. But that doesn't prove it's better at anything. >They same can be said of any fricking round too of someone miraculously surviving it.
>Anything out of a 12g is going to frick someone up unless they're wearing plates and a hardass. Might not kill them, probably will, good chance even if it doesn't they're maimed for life
This is some random college chick taking a shot to the chest and staying upright for 12 seconds and walking away. She lived. Now what happens if that was someone with a gun? Or a knife and they are less than 5 yards away? Already running at you?
Yeah most of the time birdshot would be fine. But most of the time you don’t even need a gun. Why are you cutting corners when we know what works best?
Like this video. There are lots of stories of surviving birdshot. The same can't be said about buckshot. Regardless unless someone dies via a CNS hit, they drop from blood loss causing lack of oxygen to the brain. Birdshot is inferior at penetrating deep enough to hit CNS or deep enough to hit vitals and cause rapid blood loss. Unless you do those it literally is pain and psychological impact stopping them. It doesn't matter what you think, that's the only way the body stops.
I could never really figure out if this was true or not, but when I was a kid here in Norway, there were rumors that if you trespassed onto one of the military bases in my town, or went to steal apples or plums from grumpy old guys, you'd get shot with salt. As in shotgun shells that were loaded with salt.
I know this was a practice in the old days when my father was growing up, but it was still rumored to be true when I was a kid in the 90s. It never happened to anyone I know though, so it might just have been a persistent rumor from the old days.
Me and my bros used to chase each other around with propane torches and shoot each other with salt in front of the hood nigs back in the day. It scared them, they thought we were crazy and left us alone
Nice. What's it like to be shot with salt anyway? I assumed it penetrated the skin, but like I mentioned in my original post, no one I knew had it happen to them.
The old rumor was that they aimed for the ass, and that it would sting, but I always assumed it would never cause any permanent damage, considering it was unofficially accepted.
Herd it from an oldtimer in upstate NY. Common for trespassers and the like, apparently the best way to treat it is to sit in water. Hurts like hell and PD will be waiting.
well, from the video it seems it fricked him up well enough, but also didn't kill him, reducing the legal trouble for the shooter
I'm convinced, birdshot is a good home defense round
>didn't kill him, reducing the legal trouble
You have that backwards. Not killing the intruder is the absolute worst mistake you can make. Best case scenario, there's a lengthy investigation into whether or not it was attempted murder or self defense, followed by the court arguing why you'd choose such a weak shell for HD. Killing him guarantees that you don't have some low-life trying to sue or lying about his intentions, muddying the waters
>there's a lengthy investigation into whether or not it was attempted murder or self defense
there are 10 cameras placed all over my apartment >followed by the court arguing why you'd choose such a weak shell for HD
I don't want to kill anyone but still want to protect my home, switched to the birdshot after watching a video on the internet about a skater kid getting birdshot and surviving, you can look up my browsing and posting history
>I don't want to kill anyone
Clearly. Nobody other than psychos want to kill someone. That's not the issue. I doubt you want to pepper someone with birdshot either. What you "want" doesn't matter, the question is what is the optimal choice when you are forced to take action. And in that case birdshot is a poor choice. Not only is it statistically ineffective for stopping a threat, it also creates legal concerns that wouldn't otherwise be present as
>didn't kill him, reducing the legal trouble
You have that backwards. Not killing the intruder is the absolute worst mistake you can make. Best case scenario, there's a lengthy investigation into whether or not it was attempted murder or self defense, followed by the court arguing why you'd choose such a weak shell for HD. Killing him guarantees that you don't have some low-life trying to sue or lying about his intentions, muddying the waters
points out.
You're going to have a fun time explaining yourself in court. >Why'd you shoot him with birdshot, anon? >Well I saw this video online where someone was shot with birdshot and lived >So what you're saying is that you weren't really in fear of your life? You just wanted to hurt the victim, not save yourself?
sir, this is a court room and not a PrepHole, why are you even trying to drag me into a discussion on whether hurting someone is more ethical than killing them on the spot, what's next, you're going to state it's okay to jerk off to anime children if they're 9000 year old vampires?
> what's next, you're going to state it's okay to jerk off to anime children if they're 9000 year old vampires?
Buddy, you’re on PrepHole
2 years ago
Anonymous
No harm rooting weebs out as the pedophiles they are. People here on /k/ will (correctly) call out pedo Joe or go on about how Epstein didnt kill himself while posting with some e-girl in their image. Fixing the board takes a little effort from everyone.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's a compliment
2 years ago
Anonymous
Post guns, newbie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ultra based. Most of these homosexuals are just contrarians and join "le epic donahl tramp rite wing" because they've been contrarians their whole life. But have zero actual issues with the degeneracy infesting their lives
If anything it proves you wanted to defend yourself with preplanned reasonable force you moron lol.
As long as during the moment you feared for your life and used your premade implements to defend yourself using what you have against the attacker it's the same shit.
Fricking morons.
"I hit the guy with my baseball bat in self defence because before the incident I didn't think I needed a gun for self defence" "Oh that means you didn't fear for your life in that moment because you didn't buy a gun"
Think of how dumb you sound.
>So what you're saying is that you weren't really in fear of your life? You just wanted to hurt the victim, not save yourself?
I shot to stop the the threat, not for the purpose of killing him.
>there are 10 cameras placed all over my apartment
that is 10 tapes where every second will be drug out and deeply examined.
"Sir, your eyes darted away from the victim for .000005 seconds before you fired. If you were truly in fear of your life, if my client were a threat, why did you feel comfortable looking away?"
Heaven help you if its a minority during an election year.
I bit of an exaggeration, but yeah cameras inside the home is generally a bad idea unless you just have them at common entrances like the front in back doors so you could capture them breaking in and probably their weapon out as well.
>if my client were a threat, why did you feel comfortable looking away
I often rely on the concept of the object permanence - it is a well-known fact that object do not disappear if you look away from them for a second
This. Dead men tell no tales, and the guy breaking into your house isn't exactly going to be truthful about what happened. Make sure you kill them. It's shitty, but this is the legal system that progressives have made. In the same way that pushing gender identity got them men dominating women's sports.
Yeah. Always shoot to kill. The whole "shoot them in the ______" is a meme. If you're using a gun, deadly force better be fricking necessary. Be smart about your choice of weapon/ammo to minimize penetration etc., but it should be powerful enough to do the job.
Watch the video. His heart and lungs had shot in them and it's literally a miracle he survived. And again, there's different weights of shot, number 7 isn't the only kind of bird shot available. >you gotta kill him
For home invasion, if you're in a castle doctrine state it basically doesn't matter. At least my state you're even protected from civil suites in such cases.
Playing devil's advocate a little bit here, but if it goes to court the other guy's lawyer is going to try to criticize your choice of gun and ammunition regardless of what those choices were. We saw this during the Rittenhouse trial. FMJ would have too much penetration, hollow point would expand and cause sadistic amount of damage. .22 is too weak to be humane, 10mm is overkill. A long gun is too big and scary, a handgun implies you wanted to conceal your power level. They're going to use any moronic argument they can to try to act like you were in the wrong for having someone attack you or your property because that's their job.
>the other guy's lawyer is going to try to criticize your choice of gun and ammunition
overall, this is a moronic waste of time and an obvious attempt to weasel out of a lost cause
a lawyer may feel that he's very smart asking those tricky questions, but all this clownish bullshit does is annoy the judge and the jury and everyone else
>all this clownish bullshit does is annoy the judge and the jury and everyone else
Does it though? Because the grabbers seem to really go for this shit. Even in the Rittenhouse trial there were apparently a couple jurors who only begrudgingly agreed to his innocence after much debate.
Because they're literally brainwashed by the MSM
The full Yuri Benznov lecture is worth a listen.
https://odysee.com/@paulj388:9/Yuri-Bezmenov-lecture-on-Subversion:e
A couple jurors out of twelve isn't a bad statistic by any means, the fact that there's so few of them pretty much guarantees they'll eventually have to just give up their weird cuck logic and just agree with the majority of level headed individuals.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It's bad when you consider how open and shut that case should have been as a justified self defense. The only possible ways you could disagree is if you either literally don't know what happened or if you feel you have some kind of ideological or moral or political stake in the verdict that is harmed by Kyle's innocence. Considering the jury spent 2 weeks listening to first hand accounts of what happened and talking about it among each other it's unlikely that they misunderstood the facts of the case.
Not everyone is familiar with guns and how they work. I’ve seen a video of a girl thinking you could just pick up fired bullets from a rifle and have them work fine in a revolver. There’s also people who are simply anti gun/self-defense and will run with any excuse a prosecutor gives them to convict.
The israeliteSA justice system. Judged by white trash, Karen's, Black folk, spics, and chinks. Good luck out there after a defensive shooting if you live in a big city.
And now we’re back to why avoiding a criminal trial (among other things I.e. maximum protection from bodily harm) is why it’s generally recommended to shoot to kill in a home invasion situation. Civil cases, on the other hand…
>reducing the legal trouble for the shooter
You will have more legal trouble if they live. Dead men tell no tales >I'm convinced, birdshot is a good home defense round
It’s not. Just because this instance he stopped, doesn’t mean they always will. Relying on pain is no guarantee. Relying on physical incapacitation always works
It's a gun anon. Of course it can frick shit up, I can also start unloading a bunch of pictures of pellet guns having killed grown men, doesn't mean it's ideal for self defense if you can do otherwise. If you live in Ausfalia or some kind of shithole Euro country, then sure, use birdshot if all you have access to is your skeet gun, chances are it will scare away the intruders, it will hurt them, and might even kill one depending on the distance and where they were shot, but it's not ideal either way especially if whoever you're shooting has a firearm that's more capable.
For the home defense scenario where you're shooting at intruders at around 20 to 30 feet away at most, even the more modest birdshot will have enough power to blow through most people if not get decent penetration.
I'd still use buckshot myself, not that it'd be significantly more effective against someone using body armor (if they're rocking body armor, I'm screwed anyway because it's probably some glow-in-the-dark CIA Black person.) I just think it's cooler.
For MY home defense, I'm probably going to go for a handgun first if it's short notice. If I have a good minute or so to know someone is trying to break in, I'll just use my rifle.
probably, always gonna be some people who wanna sit on the fence with the post on their ass cause they want to use a gun for home defence but don't want to kill so they load up birdshot or rock salt, obviously different loads can kill but you don't load up birdshot then pick the best load you can despite that
"not enough? how about you take a shot and see how you like it"
>friends with him for 10 years >still get shot by him >his family goes full dindu mode and shits on you for taking it to the court >he literally shows up in a pimp suit and a cane to the sentencing hearing
avoid basketballs.
yea it's pretty fricked up the thinking behind this sorta urban gangbanger
I saw a pretty good post on here explaining why stuff like random shootings over the smallest shit like "proving yourself" and insults happens, explained it as the result of having such a high emphasis on status which determines all your social connections and how vulnerable you are like prison I guess, apparently people are willing to risk their lives for even if they manage to get a successful career I guess makes sense so few get educated n all like obama when you even have the biggest black celebrities talking about their gang ties and promising rappers dying cause they kept around the streets and even unaffiliated black celebrities flashing gang signs cause that's what black culture is I guess
It means it's smaller than #7 shot. You wanna go heavier since it helps with penetration.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What're some good budget options?
2 years ago
Anonymous
How much buckshot do you already have? It's probably enough, it's not like you're going to be needs dozens of shells in a home defense scenario.
There's also reloading if you want to get into that.
No, it won't.
It's not preferable to buckshot, but at indoor ranges it'll absolutely penetrate people. All of these pics you see of just welts are people who got shot at 50 yards and such. Just look at the pattern. It doesn't spread out that much at 10 feet.
2 years ago
Anonymous
10 shells
2 years ago
Anonymous
Well that's more than enough for a tube. So if you've patterned it in your gun already, just keep it and see if prices drop in the future.
Target loads is usually around the smallest sized bird shot, with lighter loadings. No.7 or 8 shot at 28grams is normal. Bird shot tends to be bigger and more powerful, I use 32 gram no.6 shot for pigeons. For Turkey and Goose people go all the way upto BB, which isn't technically birdshot anymore.
I've only test fired BB once, pic related (about 20m shot), and I wouldn't want to get hit by it. I wouldn't want to get shot with any birdshot, but BB seems like its the start of 'this will kill you at distance'
I just made this thread because I saw the link and thought it was interesting, photo is 2nd thing that pops up on google images when you type “man shot with birdshot” >take meds
My dad had a friend who accidentally shot himself in the stomach with a shotgun loaded with birdshot. He reversed and tried to use it to clear a path through a hedge, and presumably the trigger caught and shot himself in the stomach.
He survived ok and for years afterwards he would have little pellets come to the skin surface which he would pop out at the pub and put on the table. Pretty gross really.
It is poorgay cope. That's it. Same with people using FMJ for concealed carry or .22 for self defense. People will spend upwards of $200 for a gun then cheap out on the part that actually does the damage.
reminder that 4 buck barely has better ballistics than 22lr and was deemed insufficient when the fbi tested it and that people are only shilling it now because a guy on israelitetube said it was good.
>4 buck barely has better ballistics than 22lr
Yeah, but there's twenty of them in a shell so one pull of the trigger is like two instantaneous mag dumps from a 10/22.
What will you do in the 1 in a 100 case that being shot AT doesn’t work? Honestly a .22 single action revolver will work in most HD cases by why use it when there are better options? Especially for shotguns when your better option literally costs $5
The funny thing is you googled "Birdshot injuries" and then you ignored all the pictures of close range shots where people had fist sized holes blown in them and were killed.
Skater dude is so lucky Black folk are moronic
The stupid fricking Black person probably went to walmart to get ammo and just got the cheapest shit possible which was obviously birdshot. If it was buckshot he would absolutely be dead
Yes. Because a lot of people don’t know any better. Within 5 yards it’ll put someone and with heavier turkey loads you can add a few more yards. Realistically #4 buck is the small load I’d ever depend on to stop a person
Are there really people who bought the "shotgun for home defense" meme? That's worse than the rifle for home defense meme, you might as well fall for the cannon for home defense or blunderbuss meme.
I use a Mossburg 500 pump shotgun for home defense. the first two loads are 2 3inch turkey mag loads. last in the tube is 00 buck. Where I live both city and county governments are full of Antifa anti gun radicals. Multiple times these people have made public statements that people who choose to defend themselves will be the center of their efforts to be put in jail. So its hard to argue my intent was to murder the criminal trying to rob me when the first two shots are designed to kill 40lb birds.
Anything out of a 12g is going to frick someone up unless they're wearing plates and a hardass. Might not kill them, probably will, good chance even if it doesn't they're maimed for life. Every load you just described is more than enough to kill, hell there's .410 loads that would kill most any man that walks the earth in a non-perfect shot and any man alive with a perfect one. People use birdshot so they don't penetrate drywall and hurt their neighbors and they use it as the first round or two in a pump or reliable semi-auto so they can shoot someone and then identify them so that just in case they fricked up and didn't shoot someone that needed shooting there's a chance they might not be maimed for life or dead. Then you follow that up with "guaranteed anyone not wearing plates is done and even if they are if you leg them they're still done" loads. Birdshot is also OP for peppering someone with a hundred yards out or longer if you own land and need to keep frickers away from your livestock without necessarily ending them on the spot, and you can always just put a slug behind the birdshot to make cranium go splat or leg go whee if necessary.
>Anything out of a 12g is going to frick someone up unless they're wearing plates and a hardass. Might not kill them, probably will, good chance even if it doesn't they're maimed for life
This is some random college chick taking a shot to the chest and staying upright for 12 seconds and walking away. She lived. Now what happens if that was someone with a gun? Or a knife and they are less than 5 yards away? Already running at you?
Yeah most of the time birdshot would be fine. But most of the time you don’t even need a gun. Why are you cutting corners when we know what works best?
>It might pattern better in your shotgun
Irrelevant at HD ranges. Even 8 shot from a cylinder bore is staying on a dinner plate at 5 yards. Buckshot will always be tighter anyhow at these distances >more pellets for more likelyhood to hit a vital
Doesn't matter if they don't penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals. And again, patterns are so tight at HD ranges you're going to hit it with either or you are missing. >you might just already have it on hand.
Then that's laziness since every place that sells ammo has buckshot somewhere. It's $5 for a box of 5 that will theoretically last you until you need it. Also if you are saying birdshot is the only option you should use it, well no shit. But that doesn't prove it's better at anything. >They same can be said of any fricking round too of someone miraculously surviving it.
[...]
Like this video. There are lots of stories of surviving birdshot. The same can't be said about buckshot. Regardless unless someone dies via a CNS hit, they drop from blood loss causing lack of oxygen to the brain. Birdshot is inferior at penetrating deep enough to hit CNS or deep enough to hit vitals and cause rapid blood loss. Unless you do those it literally is pain and psychological impact stopping them. It doesn't matter what you think, that's the only way the body stops.
There are videos of people still fighting through half a dozen 9mm, 40SW, and .45 rounds you collosal moron.
>muh pain compliance >muh cant drop a man >Muh non lethal
2 years ago
Anonymous
>muh one picture proves everything
I can show when it doesn't work. Watch the Seattle University video above. Watch this one
Granted this time the cop got hit in the shoulder/arm so it's not a lethal hit regardless, but he kept motor control of his arm to reload and is shown moving it later that day in the hospital.
For the hundredth time, it's not if birdshot "can" be lethal. It can in the right situation. That doesn't mean it's better for self defense in any way compared to buckshot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Posts single room distance wound >W-WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS PICTURE OF A GUY HIT AT TEN TIMES THAT DISTANCE HUH???? >ONE PICTURE DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING! >BUT THIS ONE CASE PROVES EVERYTHING!
Cope and seethe.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I can keep doing this too. Instead of acting like I said it can't kill, which is the opposite of what I wrote, how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Every time you post a wide pattern from a hit at extreme range and I post a tight pattern from single room distance my point only gets stronger, because everyone can see the hilarious difference it makes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh my the difference distance can make
2 years ago
Anonymous
moron, I showed a video of a girl shot at less than 5 yards. Probably closer to 3 yards. You can see the whole thing happen. Pictures of corpses give us no indication of distance of the situation. Spread is variable depending on load, choke, and partially barrel length. You said >many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances
Fricking show me. You’re so confident,
show me that those corpses were shot further away than that chick was.
Five yards you collosal moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So the same distance she was shot at on camera. Hmmm maybe this shows the inconsistencies in something made to shoot 5lb animals and not 150-200lb ones?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ah the final cope, that birdshot magically has effects orders of magnitude removed not because of any one off malfunction but because of fairy dust and your hopes and dreams.
The only thing it shows the inconsistency of is the ammunition that was used on the girl with completely normal and well documented injuries from birdshot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>because of any one off malfunction
Ah the final cope. Excusing poor performance to show impossible to prove “malfunction”
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hey any info about the rounds used in the video? Cause everyone's just sort of taking what happened on faith.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It was a quib moron. Also look at the spread of the pic you posted. It clearly wasn't at indoor range.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It was a quib moron
How do you know that?
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/uBsDcTr.jpg
>Posts single room distance wound >W-WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS PICTURE OF A GUY HIT AT TEN TIMES THAT DISTANCE HUH???? >ONE PICTURE DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING! >BUT THIS ONE CASE PROVES EVERYTHING!
Cope and seethe.
Most criminal are cowards ie. they won't do something if it means they get killed or hurt. Birdshot will kill at close range and hurts like hell beyond that. Plus it sounds scary.
>pistols are the same as shotguns and rifles >hurr durr I can't read
Someone already beat me to explaining why you are stupid. You are proving my point you fricking idiot. Also, pistols do kinda suck at killing people.
Now show me people fighting through chest shots of 00 to #4 buck at typical HD ranges (less than 10 yards)
Not sure. I only have one box of birdshot i am saving for anti riot operations in civil war america. otherwise i am sticking to buckshot
side note... how hard is it to make my own rocksalt shot? Again its not for home defense its for riot control and police operations for a militia in a civil unrest environment
>Again its not for home defense its for riot control and police operations for a militia in a civil unrest environment
Don't do it, just get a paintball gun. A lot of protestors have been armed and you don't wanna point a real shotgun at them.
yes armed protestors are more common than you may think. I observed the one in my town which was a small one that didn't make the news anywhere and there was a Black person with a glock hanging out of his sweatpants pocket and another dude with an AR and another guy who had a shotgun broken down in his backpack for some reason.
Also bear spray would probably be a good idea since it has more volume and longer range than normal pepper spray and is still reasonably effective on people.
ideally i would have a 5 man team. two less leathal two leathal and one on over watch...
if i was one man going up against a mob i would prob have a MP5 and only shoot if fired upon or charged. But my dream is to have a 5 man team that can pivot from riot control to leathal to meet escalating threats
I think that just makes the case all the better to have one guy with a paintball gun who can be covered by someone with a firearm. The concern is that if you point a shotgun loaded with rocksalt at someone and someone from the crowd fires are real firearm at you and you return fire. They are in the right legally since you initiated it by pointing a shotgun at someone and it would be reasonable to assume it's loaded with normal shot.
Whereas a paintball is very clearly not a lethal threat.
Anyone who's ever actually seen birdshot patterning at different ranges can tell how goofily cherrypicked every anti-birdshot gay's pictures of birdshot injuries are.
I never heard the news mention if the store owner that defended himself with a shotgun recently used bird shot, buck or slug. But my guess is he used bird shot given how the would-be robber is still alive and his arm was still functional enough to hold on to the AR.
I remember one video about a school shooter shooting a dumb woman just standing there at point blank range with birdshot. She didn't even move after being shot. I'll stick with buckshot thank you
>how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
Anything? Just one point
That picture was from a further distance but it still had multiple hits on the skull and they were fine. Try that with anything else and see what happens
Every time you post a wide pattern from a hit at extreme range and I post a tight pattern from single room distance my point only gets stronger, because everyone can see the hilarious difference it makes.
>how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
Still no answer?
>Try that with anything else and see what happens
Is reading a few sentences too much for your brain? Or do you have to purposely cherry pick so you don’t have to acknowledge birdshot is inferior?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>>how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
no one ever claimed it was better than buckshot for home defense, just that it is adequate. Like how your dick is adequate, but your gf knows mine is better.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>thread literally asks if people use it >yeah dude look how lethal it is >wait no, no one is saying it’s better
If it’s measurably worse than why is anyone using it? It makes no sense so why do you keep defending it?
moron a dud round can physically throw material out of the barrel fast enough to injure, it just means there was a problem.
This thread has a half dozen pictures of what happens if you get hit with Birdshot at close range, it blows a fist sized hole in you.
I've personally seen a pig shot in the head with Birdshot at close range and it opened up its head like a hit from a fricking fire axe.
Because of the many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances that produced exceptionally grizzly wounds?
Wheres your proof it was even birdshot anyway?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Because of the many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances
Oh really? Like which ones and what distances?
It definitely couldn't be that the pellets that on average don't even reach 5" in gel didn't penetrate deep enough to cause a mortal wound. No it could never be that
2 years ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/1IWmfD1.png
lol
https://i.imgur.com/IrqCyJW.jpg
Oh my the difference distance can make
https://i.imgur.com/uBsDcTr.jpg
>Posts single room distance wound >W-WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS PICTURE OF A GUY HIT AT TEN TIMES THAT DISTANCE HUH???? >ONE PICTURE DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING! >BUT THIS ONE CASE PROVES EVERYTHING!
Cope and seethe.
https://i.imgur.com/c2ND5ZR.jpg
>muh pain compliance >muh cant drop a man >Muh non lethal
Continue to seethe and cope gay
2 years ago
Anonymous
>at greater distances >doesn’t show anything about distances
Wow you really showed me
2 years ago
Anonymous
moron, you post pictures that anyone who's ever shot paper can see are from extreme range, and I and others post pictures that are from indoor ranges, all kills, then you b***h.
2 years ago
Anonymous
moron, I showed a video of a girl shot at less than 5 yards. Probably closer to 3 yards. You can see the whole thing happen. Pictures of corpses give us no indication of distance of the situation. Spread is variable depending on load, choke, and partially barrel length. You said >many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances
Fricking show me. You’re so confident,
show me that those corpses were shot further away than that chick was.
I wouldn't recommend using non-lethal means for home defense. Shoot dead center with normal ammunition for home defense. Wouldn't want the criminal to sue you in civil court now would you?
>Wouldn't want the criminal to sue you in civil court now would you?
The police can charge you regardless based on an overzealous DA trying to make an example out of you. So you have the option of proving innocence to a judge or a jury and een if you avoid jail you take a hit to time and money spent in court while the media crucifies you.
Ok so get sued in civil court and get a criminal case to go with it? That's some real smooth brain shit right there. Shoot dead center with normal ammo for self defense, don't shoot them in the back as they're running or anything stupid, don't talk to the cops without an attorney present.
>The police can charge you regardless based on an overzealous DA trying to make an example out of you.
If that happens then why does shell selection matter? That could happen anytime. Show me a single case where the choice of ammo determined the outcome. If you say Harold fish I’m going to slap you
Ok so get sued in civil court and get a criminal case to go with it? That's some real smooth brain shit right there. Shoot dead center with normal ammo for self defense, don't shoot them in the back as they're running or anything stupid, don't talk to the cops without an attorney present.
Simple as
Killing them is no guarantee that you won't be sued. Their family can still sue you for wrongful death.
It's more complicated than that, you can still lose a civil case if the shooting isn't ruled justified criminally.
For example, if you shoot someone 3 times and the 3rd bullet goes through his heart killing him. Even if you're never charged criminally, a civil suite could argue the 3rd shot was unnecessary as he was no longer a threat and so it's wrongful death as he likely would've survived the first two shots.
It's not an unwinnable defense, but you could still lose something like that even if you never face criminal charges.
yes, as I explained, don't do anything stupid, like shoot them in the back while they're running away. Just shoot them until they're no longer a viable threat and the defense of self-defense will win in civil court
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes of course don't do anything stupid, I'm just making the point that killing the person isn't going to make it any less likely that you won't be sued. This guy won, but he had Ayoob as an expert witness. If he didn't have him or a lawyer better than the plaintiff, he very well could've wound up losing even though he was cleared criminally.
>thread literally asks if people use it >yeah dude look how lethal it is >wait no, no one is saying it’s better
If it’s measurably worse than why is anyone using it? It makes no sense so why do you keep defending it?
You're moronic, 9mm is lethal but not as good as 10mm but that doesn't mean you have to use 10mm instead.
Yes it's not a perfect analogy for obvious reasons. As for why someone may use birdshot instead of buckshot. They might have a shotgun loaded with birdshot they keep around for varmit and may want to know if it's worthwhile using against people. Also not everyone's a wanna be commando who has to have the latest and greatest. Some people might have a bunch of fudd guns and not be concerned about HD enough to go buy ammo specifically for it, but again, would like to know if a shotgun they already have loaded with birdshot they already have is usable for HD.
Another reason might be smaller buckshot is unavailable or too expensive for them and they're worried about over penetration with larger buckshot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You're moronic, 9mm is lethal but not as good as 10mm but that doesn't mean you have to use 10mm instead
Because 9mm has clear advantages also. Like lower recoil, higher capacity, smaller guns for CC, cheaper ammo, while performing nearly the same in real world encounters. It’s an awful analogy.
You listed a bunch of excuses. Not reasons to use birdshot.
Also check your state laws on civil protection for home invasion. In my state if police or court determine a home invasion shooting is justified, you're protected from any civil suits and if that's the case you don't have to worry about any of this nonsense.
I have my shotgun loaded with 1 birdshot shell for a wide spread to hit anything and slow it down if its running, then the rest with 00 buckshot to immobilize fully.
Then 1 slug to make sure it can't run or try to steal from me ever again.
Average hits to incapacitate with every pistol round that has been used in a significant number of self-defense shootings is above 1.5. unless you're one of those gays who thinks all pistols are useless for self defense, planning around two center mass hits is the norm.
I love hearing stories like this and then remebering that christcuck whites think they have more in common with christian Black folk than white atheists
Craziest thing about this story isn't that the Black person killed somebody he knew for years but that the Black person's family all stood by the Black person when he was guilty as sin because the guy he shot "was snitchin".
They are not humans and will always be more loyal to their own more than anything else, including your homosexual Christian "god".
If you think the battle lines in SHTF will not be strictly racial, you are dumb as frick.
white people will disown their own families for voting for the wrong homosexual israelite loving politician.
We should learn some tribalism from Black folk
I think the song "murder on my mind" really gives a lot of insight into how Black folk think. They're actually like the TRS joke were they're a new Black person every day who isn't responsible for yesterday Black person's actions.
white people will disown their own families for voting for the wrong homosexual israelite loving politician.
We should learn some tribalism from Black folk
It's not the natural state of White people though. It took generations of propaganda and brainwashing to get SOME Whites to that point.
well to be fair, there will be some white cucks attacking normal whites but that'll be the only exception.
If you think that the battle lines in SHTF are not going to be white vs white you are hopelessly fricking naiive. Whites are the main footsoldiers on both sides, nigs are like skirmishers. The legions of petty tyrant puffed up Golems are not going to just snap out of their programing and turn on their masters.
I meant within the anti-ZOG faction, yea, the other side will be somewhat multi racial but I think many whites are gonna snap out of it when the power goes out because they really actually think Black folk are altruist universalists like they are.
How many red guard normally "snap out of it" Durning communist purges? The cucks will gladly die for their cause without doing anything useful and the boots will just keep stamping on necks until the sun explodes if you let them. Blacks have always been like a distraction. An awful distraction sure, but they operate almost like bait.
A nig throws a brick at you, then when you throw one back the Legionaries SWARM SWARM SWARM STOP RESISTING.
The blacks will be herded, they'll be directed, and when necessary they'll be corrected or culled, they'll be pushed into you, but the guy shooting at your children with a sniper rifle is going to be white and he's going to do more damage than a thousand Black folk.
agreed. I was just saying there is a huge contingent of lefties who are just in it for the status and legitimately do not think blacks are racist who are going to swing to our side when it gets nasty.
wignats literally came up with the term "race traitor". We understand that, but your typical normie White person is either going to wind up siding with us eventually, seeing it as a racial issue. Or just be in total denial about the situation and just try to continue living their lives normally.
>Or just be in total denial about the situation and just try to continue living their lives normally.
I think based on history this is unfortunately the most likely scenario, vast swaths of "peasant" like whites just crying and seething in their hovels and trying to pretend the world isn't falling apart around them.
White ethnomasochists won't last long, even the gays and trannies who work as comfort twinks to the nig and Hispanic hordes will probably get their necks broken during rough trade
It'll be much too late for the ones who awake at the last minute and defectors won't be treated kindly
>Yeah Anon I supported disarming whites and troony surgery for children my entire life but my application for uniformed Nig-herder got rejected, please let me into your camp so I can educate your daughters about Centrism.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yes, I get it dicey but we need numbers.
That's why you make them blood-in.
NPC's are truly just that.
Most of them were just clinging to whoever offered safety in the current paradigm.
No israelites or mulattos of course.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Just wall off every city and poof every problem is gone.
I skip the shotgun entirely. 40 and quick reloads>5+1. That said only a colossal moron underestimates lead coming from the business end of a gun. Birdshot can still be really fricking nasty and the reason the guy in the OP vid lived is he didn't eat that head shot.
If you want to see if your birdshot load of choice can be effective measure the longest straight shot in your home and pattern the gun with that load at that range. That is the least effective shot you can make in your home. Then move on to a watermelon or something similar and give it a shot. Then dump the rest of the tube into it from that range after inspecting the first shot's damage. Lot of people act like you're only going to shoot once when most of us are going to empty the gun into the fricker. Now do it all again with a more likely shot. If it doesn't kill them it's going to absolutely incapacitate the target in most home defense ranges. They will also be setting off metal detectors for the rest of their lives, if they live.
There are absolutely better shotgun loads for home defense but people need to stop acting like it's going to tickle to get hit with the stuff. What really irritates me with this discussion is people assuming saying anything but "birdshot is worthless for HD" means we're saying it's superior for it.
Larger capacity, easier to reload and it's a full mag instead of one by one, recoil control, length, all sorts of stuff.
While I agree birdshot can be lethal, this >Then move on to a watermelon or something similar and give it a shot.
Isn’t going to tell you anything useful. I can punch a watermelon and crack it. You can pierce it with a basic air gun. It looks flashy and impressive but humans are tougher than fruit.
Also I’ll nitpick that if someone is going to take the extra time to pattern and shoot reactive targets or stand ins for humans, they should just buy a box of buckshot. It’s $5-6. You should still pattern it but you don’t need to worry if it’s lethal or not and at what distance.
Ok. That still doesn’t make a watermelon a good test medium and doesn’t excuse why you somehow have a shotgun, a range to shoot random targets, the time to pattern, but can’t buy a singular box of buckshot.
This thread wasn’t “can birdshot kill someone”. It was “do people use birdshot for home defense”
Again, you should probably be using a better load but the point is at in home distances for most folks it's still going to be nasty. Doesn't have to be a watermelon, just something you can actually see the damage in and watermelons are cheap, I wouldn't feel right wasting good meat for that sort of thing. Reason to even do that is to show that while birdshot isn't ideal it still ought to function from across your living room or kitchen, especially if you shoot repeatedly. Even if it's not destroying it at that maximum shot range a full tube's worth should do horrible things to it. If that max range doesn't even embed pellets in the rind that tells you immediately it's not good enough period. You can get a lot of data beyond "did it explode" and you should be able to read the results of tests like that like a children's book.
My advice for HD is skip the shotgun entirely. Ideally get something like an AR pistol with a not-a-stock. At minimum get a bright ass light and 40 round mags for it too. You should have a light on your HD gun regardless of gun type.
>point is at in home distances for most folks it's still going to be nasty.
Yeah in most cases I think this is true. >Doesn't have to be a watermelon, just something you can actually see the damage in and watermelons are cheap, I wouldn't feel right wasting good meat for that sort of thing.
My point is that it looks nasty and impressive but isn’t really indicative of any lethality or wounding capability. Using meat is a waste to me too. Using watermelons doesn’t tell me it can kill a person. It can and should at 3ish yards you’d use it, but a slingshot can frick up a watermelon. I think it gives a false sense of performance
Lower recoil, faster follow up shots, shorter OAL, much higher capacity, the ability to place precision shots if needed, and it can easily pierce IIIA armor. All of that while still almost being a one shot stop (assuming 5.56 or 7.62x39 with expanding ammo). Do any of those factors really matter for HD? Probably not in almost all encounters but you aren’t handicapped by having the option to use them either.
Hurts like a b***h, but isn't a guaranteed kill always, if you want to stop someone you need to blow a hole in them
Sure, but generally not out of choice.
There's a lot of different kinds of birdshot, different sized pellets, different powder loads, some are lead, some are annealed steel, some use flite control wads. Sure, some loads will struggle to penetrate skin at close ranges, others, like turkey shot, will actually cut pretty deep at close ranges.
People have been killed on the spot with birdshot before.
>virgin turkey shot vs chad goose shot
The inrangetv cuck has a video of how birdshot fares against a steel spinner target in terms of momentum.
Right, but my point is that there's birdshot which with you can readily kill a man with.
I didn't say it didn't kill, or even that it couldn't kill on the spot, I just meant that it isn't a reliable kill.
Ah, based on all those statistics you don't have.
Bruh. At room distance in a house, you're still getting gir with a load before it spreads out. I used to use it all the time on pitbulls that city frickers dropped off on the ranch since we were right off a highway exit out of a major city. I'm not wasting slugs or buckshot on Black person tier things.
we did this a month ago and all the anti-birdshot gays got BTFO after people started posting actual photos of birdshot injuries at single room distances on actual fricking human corpses.
Dunno. I think getting shot at all would deter most attackers. Generally speaking, most folks aren’t big on the whole “dying” thing.
People think that every home invader is high on PCP and coming to rape your dog.
There's valid reasons to always be prepared, but they're still extreme outliers.
if you don't drop the doctor/engineer stealing your TV for good, they'll summon some oven dodger lawyer and get you tossed in prison for daring to harm a superior caste
That is vax max monkey pox
the damage pattern known in forensics as "the gay bar"
Also known as /k/
lel
Jej
It’s from GAY pisss
I do.
Looks like Birdshot gave him smallpox
>There's only one grade of birdshot
there's more than one, moron.
>thatisthejoke.jpg
most morons here simply use the term "birdshot". They have no clue what the sizes are, what they are called, or what each is used for.
BACK TO GOYDDIT homosexual
How many pellets were used in ops pic then anon
Count them
https://www.heavy-r.com/video/146719/Japanese_Air_Gun_Torture/
Reddit
Name one that is not only not shit for self defense but also is as good or better than #4 buck in applications where overpenetration is concerned, those being the absolute only cases you'd opt for anything but 00 buck or slugs.
>Pronounced dead at the hospital
seems effective enough to me. I'll take the 0.00001% chance the perpetrator is miraculously revived to life.
If this thread was a test to see if anyone actually watches/reads links in the OP, well done.
>doesn't understand greentext
That's 3 shots point blank with one hitting the top of his skull. The real lesson of this video is never hang out with hood nigs if you're white. I'm sticking with #4 buck and avoiding wigs and nigs
Only one hit his torso, the first hit his arm and nearly blew it off and the "headshot" was a grazing wound, as he said he pushed the barrel away from his head. Actually it was likely just ricochet after hitting the ground as the spread at point blank range would be negligible.
Although yes, the most important lesson is definitely never relax around blacks.
I knew the skater was to blame when he said the shooter showed up to court in a purple suit and top hat.
>#4 buck
Glorified birdshot
at home defense distances the wad and shot stay pretty much together acting as a pseudo slug, the wad by itself can penetrate enough to kill
Which is why people shot with bird shot routinely run away with what looks like a rash, right? Even in the case of the OP, dude made it to the hospital and probably reasonably could have been saved if he just held out a little longer, then his victim might have had to explain in a court of law why he's a white supremacist shooting innocent babies who did nothing wrong.
Nah, even cut slugs are dubious at best, not to mention you'd really want to shoot them out of a double barrel.
Couldn't even get past a fat chicks sternum at point blank range.
This, birdshot can't get past a fat chicks sternum, and only makes it 4 inches intop a bare gellatin block, and I'm supposed to trust it to kill?
Reminder that the calibration BBs are supposed to go between 3-3.75”. That’s literally just a BB gun pellet
The wadding is basically insignificant next to the lead shot itself.
>shot stay pretty much together acting as a pseudo slug,
Each pellet slows down and carries energy by itself, not as a solid mass. Air resistance acts on all of them. The only way the penetrate deeper is by “stacking” and having the pellets in front clear tissue for ones behind them.
>the wad by itself can penetrate enough to kill
Absolutely not
>the wad by itself can penetrate enough to kill
Up really close, and scoring just the luckiest hit without the target being able to get medical attention, maybe. Nonetheless, the wad is just a wad and the kind of damage it can do next to just a fraction of a load of birdshot is completely insignificant, what it adds to the wound is academical next to what your shot or slug does.
Steel BB shot at 1600FPS
Shit does some damage, throws pretty good sparks as a bonus.
While sacrificing already low shot capacity and increasing recoil significant. Steel also has the downside of penetrating less because it is less dense than lead
>3.5” goose loads are smart for HD
What does any birdshot do better than #4 buck that also doesn’t run the risk of underperforming?
It might pattern better in your shotgun, more pellets for more likelyhood to hit a vital, you might just already have it on hand.
Dude he was declared dead by medical personnel and had an out of body experience. It wasn't fricking pain compliance you zero attention span zoomer who can't watch a 15 minute video.
They same can be said of any fricking round too of someone miraculously surviving it.
>It might pattern better in your shotgun
Irrelevant at HD ranges. Even 8 shot from a cylinder bore is staying on a dinner plate at 5 yards. Buckshot will always be tighter anyhow at these distances
>more pellets for more likelyhood to hit a vital
Doesn't matter if they don't penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals. And again, patterns are so tight at HD ranges you're going to hit it with either or you are missing.
>you might just already have it on hand.
Then that's laziness since every place that sells ammo has buckshot somewhere. It's $5 for a box of 5 that will theoretically last you until you need it. Also if you are saying birdshot is the only option you should use it, well no shit. But that doesn't prove it's better at anything.
>They same can be said of any fricking round too of someone miraculously surviving it.
Like this video. There are lots of stories of surviving birdshot. The same can't be said about buckshot. Regardless unless someone dies via a CNS hit, they drop from blood loss causing lack of oxygen to the brain. Birdshot is inferior at penetrating deep enough to hit CNS or deep enough to hit vitals and cause rapid blood loss. Unless you do those it literally is pain and psychological impact stopping them. It doesn't matter what you think, that's the only way the body stops.
I could never really figure out if this was true or not, but when I was a kid here in Norway, there were rumors that if you trespassed onto one of the military bases in my town, or went to steal apples or plums from grumpy old guys, you'd get shot with salt. As in shotgun shells that were loaded with salt.
I know this was a practice in the old days when my father was growing up, but it was still rumored to be true when I was a kid in the 90s. It never happened to anyone I know though, so it might just have been a persistent rumor from the old days.
Might be true, me and some friends shoot each other with rock salt for fun
Well, whether it was true or not, it certainly made things more exciting.
i shot my cousin in the ass with a shell of salt it was fun
What did it do to his ass?
Me and my bros used to chase each other around with propane torches and shoot each other with salt in front of the hood nigs back in the day. It scared them, they thought we were crazy and left us alone
Nice. What's it like to be shot with salt anyway? I assumed it penetrated the skin, but like I mentioned in my original post, no one I knew had it happen to them.
The old rumor was that they aimed for the ass, and that it would sting, but I always assumed it would never cause any permanent damage, considering it was unofficially accepted.
It is a common tale from old times here in Brazil. My father said it hurts like hell. Have seen it in media from other countries as well.
Rock slat rounds used to be a riot control tactic in the US. Around the 1940s and stuff
Herd it from an oldtimer in upstate NY. Common for trespassers and the like, apparently the best way to treat it is to sit in water. Hurts like hell and PD will be waiting.
Used to be old pre-boomer methods to keep people out of their property in France.
Due to a change of législation making some stuff easier to do companies have started making professionnal salt slugs and shots for home défense.
I don't know what's worse between regular pellets or hardened salt rocks
They apparently do peppers shots too, maybe in case you wanted to give a proper Seasoning to the intruder?
well, from the video it seems it fricked him up well enough, but also didn't kill him, reducing the legal trouble for the shooter
I'm convinced, birdshot is a good home defense round
>didn't kill him, reducing the legal trouble
You have that backwards. Not killing the intruder is the absolute worst mistake you can make. Best case scenario, there's a lengthy investigation into whether or not it was attempted murder or self defense, followed by the court arguing why you'd choose such a weak shell for HD. Killing him guarantees that you don't have some low-life trying to sue or lying about his intentions, muddying the waters
>there's a lengthy investigation into whether or not it was attempted murder or self defense
there are 10 cameras placed all over my apartment
>followed by the court arguing why you'd choose such a weak shell for HD
I don't want to kill anyone but still want to protect my home, switched to the birdshot after watching a video on the internet about a skater kid getting birdshot and surviving, you can look up my browsing and posting history
>I don't want to kill anyone
Clearly. Nobody other than psychos want to kill someone. That's not the issue. I doubt you want to pepper someone with birdshot either. What you "want" doesn't matter, the question is what is the optimal choice when you are forced to take action. And in that case birdshot is a poor choice. Not only is it statistically ineffective for stopping a threat, it also creates legal concerns that wouldn't otherwise be present as
points out.
You're going to have a fun time explaining yourself in court.
>Why'd you shoot him with birdshot, anon?
>Well I saw this video online where someone was shot with birdshot and lived
>So what you're saying is that you weren't really in fear of your life? You just wanted to hurt the victim, not save yourself?
sir, this is a court room and not a PrepHole, why are you even trying to drag me into a discussion on whether hurting someone is more ethical than killing them on the spot, what's next, you're going to state it's okay to jerk off to anime children if they're 9000 year old vampires?
> what's next, you're going to state it's okay to jerk off to anime children if they're 9000 year old vampires?
Buddy, you’re on PrepHole
No harm rooting weebs out as the pedophiles they are. People here on /k/ will (correctly) call out pedo Joe or go on about how Epstein didnt kill himself while posting with some e-girl in their image. Fixing the board takes a little effort from everyone.
It's a compliment
Post guns, newbie.
Ultra based. Most of these homosexuals are just contrarians and join "le epic donahl tramp rite wing" because they've been contrarians their whole life. But have zero actual issues with the degeneracy infesting their lives
objection nonresponsive.
If anything it proves you wanted to defend yourself with preplanned reasonable force you moron lol.
As long as during the moment you feared for your life and used your premade implements to defend yourself using what you have against the attacker it's the same shit.
Fricking morons.
"I hit the guy with my baseball bat in self defence because before the incident I didn't think I needed a gun for self defence" "Oh that means you didn't fear for your life in that moment because you didn't buy a gun"
Think of how dumb you sound.
You’re in the wrong. No matter how many arguments you think up it’s not going to change how courts work.
>So what you're saying is that you weren't really in fear of your life? You just wanted to hurt the victim, not save yourself?
I shot to stop the the threat, not for the purpose of killing him.
Btw no one should take legal advice from here lol
>there are 10 cameras placed all over my apartment
that is 10 tapes where every second will be drug out and deeply examined.
"Sir, your eyes darted away from the victim for .000005 seconds before you fired. If you were truly in fear of your life, if my client were a threat, why did you feel comfortable looking away?"
Heaven help you if its a minority during an election year.
I bit of an exaggeration, but yeah cameras inside the home is generally a bad idea unless you just have them at common entrances like the front in back doors so you could capture them breaking in and probably their weapon out as well.
>if my client were a threat, why did you feel comfortable looking away
I often rely on the concept of the object permanence - it is a well-known fact that object do not disappear if you look away from them for a second
You won’t be compelled to use them if you don’t want to
You’re as ignorant as the warning shot people
>you can look up my browsing and posting history
Go back
This. Dead men tell no tales, and the guy breaking into your house isn't exactly going to be truthful about what happened. Make sure you kill them. It's shitty, but this is the legal system that progressives have made. In the same way that pushing gender identity got them men dominating women's sports.
Remember kids, tolerance was a mistake.
this post is a perfect example of the schizo spiraling phenomena
should we tolerate intolerance something something ?
God the legal system is such a fricking joke
Yeah. Always shoot to kill. The whole "shoot them in the ______" is a meme. If you're using a gun, deadly force better be fricking necessary. Be smart about your choice of weapon/ammo to minimize penetration etc., but it should be powerful enough to do the job.
Watch the video. His heart and lungs had shot in them and it's literally a miracle he survived. And again, there's different weights of shot, number 7 isn't the only kind of bird shot available.
>you gotta kill him
For home invasion, if you're in a castle doctrine state it basically doesn't matter. At least my state you're even protected from civil suites in such cases.
Playing devil's advocate a little bit here, but if it goes to court the other guy's lawyer is going to try to criticize your choice of gun and ammunition regardless of what those choices were. We saw this during the Rittenhouse trial. FMJ would have too much penetration, hollow point would expand and cause sadistic amount of damage. .22 is too weak to be humane, 10mm is overkill. A long gun is too big and scary, a handgun implies you wanted to conceal your power level. They're going to use any moronic argument they can to try to act like you were in the wrong for having someone attack you or your property because that's their job.
>the other guy's lawyer is going to try to criticize your choice of gun and ammunition
overall, this is a moronic waste of time and an obvious attempt to weasel out of a lost cause
a lawyer may feel that he's very smart asking those tricky questions, but all this clownish bullshit does is annoy the judge and the jury and everyone else
>all this clownish bullshit does is annoy the judge and the jury and everyone else
Does it though? Because the grabbers seem to really go for this shit. Even in the Rittenhouse trial there were apparently a couple jurors who only begrudgingly agreed to his innocence after much debate.
Because they're literally brainwashed by the MSM
The full Yuri Benznov lecture is worth a listen.
https://odysee.com/@paulj388:9/Yuri-Bezmenov-lecture-on-Subversion:e
A couple jurors out of twelve isn't a bad statistic by any means, the fact that there's so few of them pretty much guarantees they'll eventually have to just give up their weird cuck logic and just agree with the majority of level headed individuals.
It's bad when you consider how open and shut that case should have been as a justified self defense. The only possible ways you could disagree is if you either literally don't know what happened or if you feel you have some kind of ideological or moral or political stake in the verdict that is harmed by Kyle's innocence. Considering the jury spent 2 weeks listening to first hand accounts of what happened and talking about it among each other it's unlikely that they misunderstood the facts of the case.
Not everyone is familiar with guns and how they work. I’ve seen a video of a girl thinking you could just pick up fired bullets from a rifle and have them work fine in a revolver. There’s also people who are simply anti gun/self-defense and will run with any excuse a prosecutor gives them to convict.
The israeliteSA justice system. Judged by white trash, Karen's, Black folk, spics, and chinks. Good luck out there after a defensive shooting if you live in a big city.
And now we’re back to why avoiding a criminal trial (among other things I.e. maximum protection from bodily harm) is why it’s generally recommended to shoot to kill in a home invasion situation. Civil cases, on the other hand…
>civil cases
Not an issue in Florida
This. Any gun or ammo choice can be spun to look bad. Doesn’t mean that spin isn’t moronic
>reducing the legal trouble for the shooter
You will have more legal trouble if they live. Dead men tell no tales
>I'm convinced, birdshot is a good home defense round
It’s not. Just because this instance he stopped, doesn’t mean they always will. Relying on pain is no guarantee. Relying on physical incapacitation always works
Moral of the story: Don’t trust blacks, ever
>Do people exist who actually use birdshot for home defense still?
I keep birdshot for HD, but then again it comes in 12/89.
making me break these out again
i am sure the 'intruders' learned a valuable lesson
It's a gun anon. Of course it can frick shit up, I can also start unloading a bunch of pictures of pellet guns having killed grown men, doesn't mean it's ideal for self defense if you can do otherwise. If you live in Ausfalia or some kind of shithole Euro country, then sure, use birdshot if all you have access to is your skeet gun, chances are it will scare away the intruders, it will hurt them, and might even kill one depending on the distance and where they were shot, but it's not ideal either way especially if whoever you're shooting has a firearm that's more capable.
For the home defense scenario where you're shooting at intruders at around 20 to 30 feet away at most, even the more modest birdshot will have enough power to blow through most people if not get decent penetration.
I'd still use buckshot myself, not that it'd be significantly more effective against someone using body armor (if they're rocking body armor, I'm screwed anyway because it's probably some glow-in-the-dark CIA Black person.) I just think it's cooler.
For MY home defense, I'm probably going to go for a handgun first if it's short notice. If I have a good minute or so to know someone is trying to break in, I'll just use my rifle.
O U C H
O U C H !
>Try NOT to panic
>You've been asleep for... nine years
[whoa hoas externally]
When I see something like that, I'm glad my balls are made out of steel.
He might have made it if he had an erection when it took place. Maybe his right ball was taken out but he only needs one.
That's nuts.
probably, always gonna be some people who wanna sit on the fence with the post on their ass cause they want to use a gun for home defence but don't want to kill so they load up birdshot or rock salt, obviously different loads can kill but you don't load up birdshot then pick the best load you can despite that
"not enough? how about you take a shot and see how you like it"
>friends with him for 10 years
>still get shot by him
>his family goes full dindu mode and shits on you for taking it to the court
>he literally shows up in a pimp suit and a cane to the sentencing hearing
avoid basketballs.
yea it's pretty fricked up the thinking behind this sorta urban gangbanger
I saw a pretty good post on here explaining why stuff like random shootings over the smallest shit like "proving yourself" and insults happens, explained it as the result of having such a high emphasis on status which determines all your social connections and how vulnerable you are like prison I guess, apparently people are willing to risk their lives for even if they manage to get a successful career I guess makes sense so few get educated n all like obama when you even have the biggest black celebrities talking about their gang ties and promising rappers dying cause they kept around the streets and even unaffiliated black celebrities flashing gang signs cause that's what black culture is I guess
Is there any difference between target loads and birdshot? I have a bunch from when I did skeet. It's 12 gauge 2 3/4 inch
It's one of many types of birdshot, usually #7 or so.
Thanks, I've been trying to get some more slugs and buckshot but they're over $1 per round near me
Heavier bird shot like #3 or #4 will be fine for HD.
It's Winchester Heavy Target Load. It says 8 shot, though I don't know if that means #8. It definitely doesn't just have 8 pellets in it
It means it's smaller than #7 shot. You wanna go heavier since it helps with penetration.
What're some good budget options?
How much buckshot do you already have? It's probably enough, it's not like you're going to be needs dozens of shells in a home defense scenario.
There's also reloading if you want to get into that.
It's not preferable to buckshot, but at indoor ranges it'll absolutely penetrate people. All of these pics you see of just welts are people who got shot at 50 yards and such. Just look at the pattern. It doesn't spread out that much at 10 feet.
10 shells
Well that's more than enough for a tube. So if you've patterned it in your gun already, just keep it and see if prices drop in the future.
No, it won't.
Target loads is usually around the smallest sized bird shot, with lighter loadings. No.7 or 8 shot at 28grams is normal. Bird shot tends to be bigger and more powerful, I use 32 gram no.6 shot for pigeons. For Turkey and Goose people go all the way upto BB, which isn't technically birdshot anymore.
I've only test fired BB once, pic related (about 20m shot), and I wouldn't want to get hit by it. I wouldn't want to get shot with any birdshot, but BB seems like its the start of 'this will kill you at distance'
What a fricking specimen. I would actually kill myself if I was even approaching that level of heft ( 6'1" 175lbs)
>hurr muh birdshot
>posts photo of man with back acne
This is a commonly reposted thread. Why?
I just made this thread because I saw the link and thought it was interesting, photo is 2nd thing that pops up on google images when you type “man shot with birdshot”
>take meds
My dad had a friend who accidentally shot himself in the stomach with a shotgun loaded with birdshot. He reversed and tried to use it to clear a path through a hedge, and presumably the trigger caught and shot himself in the stomach.
He survived ok and for years afterwards he would have little pellets come to the skin surface which he would pop out at the pub and put on the table. Pretty gross really.
i only buy #6 birdshot by the case and use it for everything. cut shells for self defense and deer hunting and non cut for everything else
damn, that monke pox looks brutal
I have a hornady sst slug as my first out then alternate buck and bird shot in the tube. None of you are lawyers so frick you
>None of you are lawyers so frick you
Calling my lawyer right now.
Do it and tell shecklestein i called him a turbohomosexual too
Mein lawyer called you a dirty Jude, so now I don't know what to do.
He didn't even charge me for ze phone call. Vat am I to do, Herr Anonymous?
Tell him to leave through the chimney like his grand dad
Santa?
>Do people exist who actually use birdshot for home defense still?
Yes, you can't cure stupid
Buy flechette rounds gaylord
Literally subpar in every way unless you expect someone to wear soft body armor.
Imagine a shotgun of pellet or a machine gun
It is poorgay cope. That's it. Same with people using FMJ for concealed carry or .22 for self defense. People will spend upwards of $200 for a gun then cheap out on the part that actually does the damage.
>likely won't kill but will maim
>get sued by the moron you use it on
>be attacked by some jackhole on drugs that won't even feel it
reminder that 4 buck barely has better ballistics than 22lr and was deemed insufficient when the fbi tested it and that people are only shilling it now because a guy on israelitetube said it was good.
>4 buck barely has better ballistics than 22lr
Yeah, but there's twenty of them in a shell so one pull of the trigger is like two instantaneous mag dumps from a 10/22.
Black person just be a non moron like the rest of us and magdump an AR
22lr killed a record setting kodiak bear.
8 gauge dust shot hand loads aimed at the face.
Oh that's the country kindly frick off.
>bird vs buck debate
am I the only BB shell user in the country?
i have steel bb wolf 12 gauge rounds. face rippers
plz use steel shot
lead poisoning is no good
a guy i know used to chamber a shotgun with plastic,than bird shoots, buckshoot and finaly slugs.
birdshot is for birds my dudes
Gotta love how the machinegunner moron only shot those two dudes shooting at his buddy because he got told to start suppressive fire
>Suppress building two!
>Immediately kills two tangos
I cannot enjoy anything anymore.
That's just real bad acne, brah, my girlfriend has that.
Define birdshot you fricking Black person. Your pic doesn’t look like BBB to me.
>Define birdshot
#7
Also this kid seems like he causes all kinds of trouble and is in general a disgusting wigger.
Why don’t you just say target loads then? People would know what you are talking about
>shoot gun at person
>this is insufficient to stop most threats
I will never accept this mindset until I witness it in person.
What will you do in the 1 in a 100 case that being shot AT doesn’t work? Honestly a .22 single action revolver will work in most HD cases by why use it when there are better options? Especially for shotguns when your better option literally costs $5
The funny thing is you googled "Birdshot injuries" and then you ignored all the pictures of close range shots where people had fist sized holes blown in them and were killed.
Skater dude is so lucky Black folk are moronic
The stupid fricking Black person probably went to walmart to get ammo and just got the cheapest shit possible which was obviously birdshot. If it was buckshot he would absolutely be dead
Do both, open up a buckshot shell and fill the spaces in between the buckshot pellets with birdshot
Yes. Because a lot of people don’t know any better. Within 5 yards it’ll put someone and with heavier turkey loads you can add a few more yards. Realistically #4 buck is the small load I’d ever depend on to stop a person
Are there really people who bought the "shotgun for home defense" meme? That's worse than the rifle for home defense meme, you might as well fall for the cannon for home defense or blunderbuss meme.
>implying a cannon isn't the ideal home defence weapon
boomers and their parents do this because they're actual morons
I use a Mossburg 500 pump shotgun for home defense. the first two loads are 2 3inch turkey mag loads. last in the tube is 00 buck. Where I live both city and county governments are full of Antifa anti gun radicals. Multiple times these people have made public statements that people who choose to defend themselves will be the center of their efforts to be put in jail. So its hard to argue my intent was to murder the criminal trying to rob me when the first two shots are designed to kill 40lb birds.
Anything out of a 12g is going to frick someone up unless they're wearing plates and a hardass. Might not kill them, probably will, good chance even if it doesn't they're maimed for life. Every load you just described is more than enough to kill, hell there's .410 loads that would kill most any man that walks the earth in a non-perfect shot and any man alive with a perfect one. People use birdshot so they don't penetrate drywall and hurt their neighbors and they use it as the first round or two in a pump or reliable semi-auto so they can shoot someone and then identify them so that just in case they fricked up and didn't shoot someone that needed shooting there's a chance they might not be maimed for life or dead. Then you follow that up with "guaranteed anyone not wearing plates is done and even if they are if you leg them they're still done" loads. Birdshot is also OP for peppering someone with a hundred yards out or longer if you own land and need to keep frickers away from your livestock without necessarily ending them on the spot, and you can always just put a slug behind the birdshot to make cranium go splat or leg go whee if necessary.
>Anything out of a 12g is going to frick someone up unless they're wearing plates and a hardass. Might not kill them, probably will, good chance even if it doesn't they're maimed for life
This is some random college chick taking a shot to the chest and staying upright for 12 seconds and walking away. She lived. Now what happens if that was someone with a gun? Or a knife and they are less than 5 yards away? Already running at you?
Yeah most of the time birdshot would be fine. But most of the time you don’t even need a gun. Why are you cutting corners when we know what works best?
There are videos of people still fighting through half a dozen 9mm, 40SW, and .45 rounds you collosal moron.
Reading is hard
>don't hit CNS or induce massive blood loss
>target won't drop
>birdshot is incapable of either short of inside mouth distances
>muh pain compliance
>muh cant drop a man
>Muh non lethal
>muh one picture proves everything
I can show when it doesn't work. Watch the Seattle University video above. Watch this one
Granted this time the cop got hit in the shoulder/arm so it's not a lethal hit regardless, but he kept motor control of his arm to reload and is shown moving it later that day in the hospital.
For the hundredth time, it's not if birdshot "can" be lethal. It can in the right situation. That doesn't mean it's better for self defense in any way compared to buckshot.
>Posts single room distance wound
>W-WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS PICTURE OF A GUY HIT AT TEN TIMES THAT DISTANCE HUH????
>ONE PICTURE DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING!
>BUT THIS ONE CASE PROVES EVERYTHING!
Cope and seethe.
I can keep doing this too. Instead of acting like I said it can't kill, which is the opposite of what I wrote, how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
Every time you post a wide pattern from a hit at extreme range and I post a tight pattern from single room distance my point only gets stronger, because everyone can see the hilarious difference it makes.
Oh my the difference distance can make
Five yards you collosal moron.
So the same distance she was shot at on camera. Hmmm maybe this shows the inconsistencies in something made to shoot 5lb animals and not 150-200lb ones?
Ah the final cope, that birdshot magically has effects orders of magnitude removed not because of any one off malfunction but because of fairy dust and your hopes and dreams.
The only thing it shows the inconsistency of is the ammunition that was used on the girl with completely normal and well documented injuries from birdshot.
>because of any one off malfunction
Ah the final cope. Excusing poor performance to show impossible to prove “malfunction”
Hey any info about the rounds used in the video? Cause everyone's just sort of taking what happened on faith.
It was a quib moron. Also look at the spread of the pic you posted. It clearly wasn't at indoor range.
>It was a quib moron
How do you know that?
Most criminal are cowards ie. they won't do something if it means they get killed or hurt. Birdshot will kill at close range and hurts like hell beyond that. Plus it sounds scary.
>pistols are the same as shotguns and rifles
>hurr durr I can't read
Someone already beat me to explaining why you are stupid. You are proving my point you fricking idiot. Also, pistols do kinda suck at killing people.
Now show me people fighting through chest shots of 00 to #4 buck at typical HD ranges (less than 10 yards)
My father inlaw keeps pushing it. I keep ignoring him and using 00 buck
Not sure. I only have one box of birdshot i am saving for anti riot operations in civil war america. otherwise i am sticking to buckshot
side note... how hard is it to make my own rocksalt shot? Again its not for home defense its for riot control and police operations for a militia in a civil unrest environment
>Again its not for home defense its for riot control and police operations for a militia in a civil unrest environment
Don't do it, just get a paintball gun. A lot of protestors have been armed and you don't wanna point a real shotgun at them.
yes armed protestors are more common than you may think. I observed the one in my town which was a small one that didn't make the news anywhere and there was a Black person with a glock hanging out of his sweatpants pocket and another dude with an AR and another guy who had a shotgun broken down in his backpack for some reason.
Also bear spray would probably be a good idea since it has more volume and longer range than normal pepper spray and is still reasonably effective on people.
ideally i would have a 5 man team. two less leathal two leathal and one on over watch...
if i was one man going up against a mob i would prob have a MP5 and only shoot if fired upon or charged. But my dream is to have a 5 man team that can pivot from riot control to leathal to meet escalating threats
I think that just makes the case all the better to have one guy with a paintball gun who can be covered by someone with a firearm. The concern is that if you point a shotgun loaded with rocksalt at someone and someone from the crowd fires are real firearm at you and you return fire. They are in the right legally since you initiated it by pointing a shotgun at someone and it would be reasonable to assume it's loaded with normal shot.
Whereas a paintball is very clearly not a lethal threat.
What about tungsten magnum turkey loads
Anyone who's ever actually seen birdshot patterning at different ranges can tell how goofily cherrypicked every anti-birdshot gay's pictures of birdshot injuries are.
I never heard the news mention if the store owner that defended himself with a shotgun recently used bird shot, buck or slug. But my guess is he used bird shot given how the would-be robber is still alive and his arm was still functional enough to hold on to the AR.
I remember one video about a school shooter shooting a dumb woman just standing there at point blank range with birdshot. She didn't even move after being shot. I'll stick with buckshot thank you
It was a dud round dumbass.
I hear you say this anytime it comes up. Do you have any evidence? Of course you don’t or you would have answered me earlier when I asked
>how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
Anything? Just one point
That picture was from a further distance but it still had multiple hits on the skull and they were fine. Try that with anything else and see what happens
Frick I’m stupid. Meant to reply to this
>That picture was from a further distance
Proving my point exactly.
>how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
Still no answer?
>Try that with anything else and see what happens
Is reading a few sentences too much for your brain? Or do you have to purposely cherry pick so you don’t have to acknowledge birdshot is inferior?
>>how about you state why birdshot is superior to buckshot in any way for self defense?
no one ever claimed it was better than buckshot for home defense, just that it is adequate. Like how your dick is adequate, but your gf knows mine is better.
>thread literally asks if people use it
>yeah dude look how lethal it is
>wait no, no one is saying it’s better
If it’s measurably worse than why is anyone using it? It makes no sense so why do you keep defending it?
No, she was hit and got wounded. I tried finding the video last night, but uvalde fricked up the searches.
moron a dud round can physically throw material out of the barrel fast enough to injure, it just means there was a problem.
This thread has a half dozen pictures of what happens if you get hit with Birdshot at close range, it blows a fist sized hole in you.
I've personally seen a pig shot in the head with Birdshot at close range and it opened up its head like a hit from a fricking fire axe.
It’s on you to prove it was a squib. For the third time, fricking prove it. There’s a huge difference between a contact shot and a shot at 4-5 yards
Because of the many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances that produced exceptionally grizzly wounds?
Wheres your proof it was even birdshot anyway?
>Because of the many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances
Oh really? Like which ones and what distances?
It definitely couldn't be that the pellets that on average don't even reach 5" in gel didn't penetrate deep enough to cause a mortal wound. No it could never be that
Continue to seethe and cope gay
>at greater distances
>doesn’t show anything about distances
Wow you really showed me
moron, you post pictures that anyone who's ever shot paper can see are from extreme range, and I and others post pictures that are from indoor ranges, all kills, then you b***h.
moron, I showed a video of a girl shot at less than 5 yards. Probably closer to 3 yards. You can see the whole thing happen. Pictures of corpses give us no indication of distance of the situation. Spread is variable depending on load, choke, and partially barrel length. You said
>many pictures in this thread of shots taken at greater distances
Fricking show me. You’re so confident,
show me that those corpses were shot further away than that chick was.
Are boomers still alive? If so, people are still believing dumb shit about guns.
I wouldn't recommend using non-lethal means for home defense. Shoot dead center with normal ammunition for home defense. Wouldn't want the criminal to sue you in civil court now would you?
>Wouldn't want the criminal to sue you in civil court now would you?
The police can charge you regardless based on an overzealous DA trying to make an example out of you. So you have the option of proving innocence to a judge or a jury and een if you avoid jail you take a hit to time and money spent in court while the media crucifies you.
Ok so get sued in civil court and get a criminal case to go with it? That's some real smooth brain shit right there. Shoot dead center with normal ammo for self defense, don't shoot them in the back as they're running or anything stupid, don't talk to the cops without an attorney present.
Simple as
>The police can charge you regardless based on an overzealous DA trying to make an example out of you.
If that happens then why does shell selection matter? That could happen anytime. Show me a single case where the choice of ammo determined the outcome. If you say Harold fish I’m going to slap you
For America, that is. In other parts of the world it's better to maim than to kill.
yeah that's because our defense laws aren't complete shit, only partly shit. Don't know why you guys put up with your bullshit
I mean I can understand why shooting someone with birdshot can be considered better than straight up killing them.
Killing them is no guarantee that you won't be sued. Their family can still sue you for wrongful death.
Not if you were in the right, self defense is still a defense in tort law, not just criminal trials
sorry, I mean you can be sued, but it would go nowhere fast, because self-defense as a defense in tort law
It's more complicated than that, you can still lose a civil case if the shooting isn't ruled justified criminally.
For example, if you shoot someone 3 times and the 3rd bullet goes through his heart killing him. Even if you're never charged criminally, a civil suite could argue the 3rd shot was unnecessary as he was no longer a threat and so it's wrongful death as he likely would've survived the first two shots.
It's not an unwinnable defense, but you could still lose something like that even if you never face criminal charges.
Pic related: From Ayoob's book "Deadly Force"
yes, as I explained, don't do anything stupid, like shoot them in the back while they're running away. Just shoot them until they're no longer a viable threat and the defense of self-defense will win in civil court
Yes of course don't do anything stupid, I'm just making the point that killing the person isn't going to make it any less likely that you won't be sued. This guy won, but he had Ayoob as an expert witness. If he didn't have him or a lawyer better than the plaintiff, he very well could've wound up losing even though he was cleared criminally.
You're moronic, 9mm is lethal but not as good as 10mm but that doesn't mean you have to use 10mm instead.
Yes it's not a perfect analogy for obvious reasons. As for why someone may use birdshot instead of buckshot. They might have a shotgun loaded with birdshot they keep around for varmit and may want to know if it's worthwhile using against people. Also not everyone's a wanna be commando who has to have the latest and greatest. Some people might have a bunch of fudd guns and not be concerned about HD enough to go buy ammo specifically for it, but again, would like to know if a shotgun they already have loaded with birdshot they already have is usable for HD.
Another reason might be smaller buckshot is unavailable or too expensive for them and they're worried about over penetration with larger buckshot.
>You're moronic, 9mm is lethal but not as good as 10mm but that doesn't mean you have to use 10mm instead
Because 9mm has clear advantages also. Like lower recoil, higher capacity, smaller guns for CC, cheaper ammo, while performing nearly the same in real world encounters. It’s an awful analogy.
You listed a bunch of excuses. Not reasons to use birdshot.
Also check your state laws on civil protection for home invasion. In my state if police or court determine a home invasion shooting is justified, you're protected from any civil suits and if that's the case you don't have to worry about any of this nonsense.
Some states have protections against that exact thing
Well I'm in Europe where gun defence is not an absolute must, still, the first shell loaded in my shotgun is birdshot followed by slugs.
I have my shotgun loaded with 1 birdshot shell for a wide spread to hit anything and slow it down if its running, then the rest with 00 buckshot to immobilize fully.
Then 1 slug to make sure it can't run or try to steal from me ever again.
You're assuming you'll get three shots. Might only get the one and it should definitely count.
Average hits to incapacitate with every pistol round that has been used in a significant number of self-defense shootings is above 1.5. unless you're one of those gays who thinks all pistols are useless for self defense, planning around two center mass hits is the norm.
Around blacks
I love hearing stories like this and then remebering that christcuck whites think they have more in common with christian Black folk than white atheists
Black folk don't have souls how tf would they even go to heaven? There are no Black folk in heaven.
Craziest thing about this story isn't that the Black person killed somebody he knew for years but that the Black person's family all stood by the Black person when he was guilty as sin because the guy he shot "was snitchin".
They are not humans and will always be more loyal to their own more than anything else, including your homosexual Christian "god".
If you think the battle lines in SHTF will not be strictly racial, you are dumb as frick.
white people will disown their own families for voting for the wrong homosexual israelite loving politician.
We should learn some tribalism from Black folk
well to be fair, there will be some white cucks attacking normal whites but that'll be the only exception.
I think the song "murder on my mind" really gives a lot of insight into how Black folk think. They're actually like the TRS joke were they're a new Black person every day who isn't responsible for yesterday Black person's actions.
It's not the natural state of White people though. It took generations of propaganda and brainwashing to get SOME Whites to that point.
>every day
more like every 15 minutes.
based fellow wignat.
If you think that the battle lines in SHTF are not going to be white vs white you are hopelessly fricking naiive. Whites are the main footsoldiers on both sides, nigs are like skirmishers. The legions of petty tyrant puffed up Golems are not going to just snap out of their programing and turn on their masters.
I meant within the anti-ZOG faction, yea, the other side will be somewhat multi racial but I think many whites are gonna snap out of it when the power goes out because they really actually think Black folk are altruist universalists like they are.
How many red guard normally "snap out of it" Durning communist purges? The cucks will gladly die for their cause without doing anything useful and the boots will just keep stamping on necks until the sun explodes if you let them. Blacks have always been like a distraction. An awful distraction sure, but they operate almost like bait.
A nig throws a brick at you, then when you throw one back the Legionaries SWARM SWARM SWARM STOP RESISTING.
The blacks will be herded, they'll be directed, and when necessary they'll be corrected or culled, they'll be pushed into you, but the guy shooting at your children with a sniper rifle is going to be white and he's going to do more damage than a thousand Black folk.
agreed. I was just saying there is a huge contingent of lefties who are just in it for the status and legitimately do not think blacks are racist who are going to swing to our side when it gets nasty.
wignats literally came up with the term "race traitor". We understand that, but your typical normie White person is either going to wind up siding with us eventually, seeing it as a racial issue. Or just be in total denial about the situation and just try to continue living their lives normally.
>Or just be in total denial about the situation and just try to continue living their lives normally.
I think based on history this is unfortunately the most likely scenario, vast swaths of "peasant" like whites just crying and seething in their hovels and trying to pretend the world isn't falling apart around them.
White ethnomasochists won't last long, even the gays and trannies who work as comfort twinks to the nig and Hispanic hordes will probably get their necks broken during rough trade
It'll be much too late for the ones who awake at the last minute and defectors won't be treated kindly
I'll accept early defectors that blood-in
>Yeah Anon I supported disarming whites and troony surgery for children my entire life but my application for uniformed Nig-herder got rejected, please let me into your camp so I can educate your daughters about Centrism.
yes, I get it dicey but we need numbers.
That's why you make them blood-in.
NPC's are truly just that.
Most of them were just clinging to whoever offered safety in the current paradigm.
No israelites or mulattos of course.
Just wall off every city and poof every problem is gone.
In the Forlorn Hope maybe
Five yard shot with no. 8 birdshot. Just a Javelina but regardless, people like to talk like even this is impossible.
lol
lmao the wad did more than the shot, embarrassing!
Lol most of the shot would have hit the same place at that range.
Why would you use a shotgun for home defense. Get a AR
Unless you have 300 yard long hallways in your house, why would a rifle be any better?
Not him but capacity and recoil are often brought up.
I skip the shotgun entirely. 40 and quick reloads>5+1. That said only a colossal moron underestimates lead coming from the business end of a gun. Birdshot can still be really fricking nasty and the reason the guy in the OP vid lived is he didn't eat that head shot.
If you want to see if your birdshot load of choice can be effective measure the longest straight shot in your home and pattern the gun with that load at that range. That is the least effective shot you can make in your home. Then move on to a watermelon or something similar and give it a shot. Then dump the rest of the tube into it from that range after inspecting the first shot's damage. Lot of people act like you're only going to shoot once when most of us are going to empty the gun into the fricker. Now do it all again with a more likely shot. If it doesn't kill them it's going to absolutely incapacitate the target in most home defense ranges. They will also be setting off metal detectors for the rest of their lives, if they live.
There are absolutely better shotgun loads for home defense but people need to stop acting like it's going to tickle to get hit with the stuff. What really irritates me with this discussion is people assuming saying anything but "birdshot is worthless for HD" means we're saying it's superior for it.
Larger capacity, easier to reload and it's a full mag instead of one by one, recoil control, length, all sorts of stuff.
While I agree birdshot can be lethal, this
>Then move on to a watermelon or something similar and give it a shot.
Isn’t going to tell you anything useful. I can punch a watermelon and crack it. You can pierce it with a basic air gun. It looks flashy and impressive but humans are tougher than fruit.
Also I’ll nitpick that if someone is going to take the extra time to pattern and shoot reactive targets or stand ins for humans, they should just buy a box of buckshot. It’s $5-6. You should still pattern it but you don’t need to worry if it’s lethal or not and at what distance.
At all indoor ranges it will produce injuries like those on the cadavers posted in the thread.
Ok. That still doesn’t make a watermelon a good test medium and doesn’t excuse why you somehow have a shotgun, a range to shoot random targets, the time to pattern, but can’t buy a singular box of buckshot.
This thread wasn’t “can birdshot kill someone”. It was “do people use birdshot for home defense”
Again, you should probably be using a better load but the point is at in home distances for most folks it's still going to be nasty. Doesn't have to be a watermelon, just something you can actually see the damage in and watermelons are cheap, I wouldn't feel right wasting good meat for that sort of thing. Reason to even do that is to show that while birdshot isn't ideal it still ought to function from across your living room or kitchen, especially if you shoot repeatedly. Even if it's not destroying it at that maximum shot range a full tube's worth should do horrible things to it. If that max range doesn't even embed pellets in the rind that tells you immediately it's not good enough period. You can get a lot of data beyond "did it explode" and you should be able to read the results of tests like that like a children's book.
My advice for HD is skip the shotgun entirely. Ideally get something like an AR pistol with a not-a-stock. At minimum get a bright ass light and 40 round mags for it too. You should have a light on your HD gun regardless of gun type.
>point is at in home distances for most folks it's still going to be nasty.
Yeah in most cases I think this is true.
>Doesn't have to be a watermelon, just something you can actually see the damage in and watermelons are cheap, I wouldn't feel right wasting good meat for that sort of thing.
My point is that it looks nasty and impressive but isn’t really indicative of any lethality or wounding capability. Using meat is a waste to me too. Using watermelons doesn’t tell me it can kill a person. It can and should at 3ish yards you’d use it, but a slingshot can frick up a watermelon. I think it gives a false sense of performance
Lower recoil, faster follow up shots, shorter OAL, much higher capacity, the ability to place precision shots if needed, and it can easily pierce IIIA armor. All of that while still almost being a one shot stop (assuming 5.56 or 7.62x39 with expanding ammo). Do any of those factors really matter for HD? Probably not in almost all encounters but you aren’t handicapped by having the option to use them either.
if it means the perp survives is it really a bad thing?