How would these impact the war?
https://defence-blog.com/congressmen-introduce-bill-to-train-ukrainian-fighter-pilots/
Bill introduced to train Ukrainians on the F-15 and F-16
How would these impact the war?
https://defence-blog.com/congressmen-introduce-bill-to-train-ukrainian-fighter-pilots/
Well the Russian AA's will finally have something to shoot at since their garbage radars can't even see drones and can only handle big ass planes.
Realistically speaking how long would it take for the Ukrops to really get good at this? Maybe it's a nice argument to sell them F-15s and F-16s after this conflict but it's not going to do much right now.
Unless """Ukrainian pilots""" manage to master the F-16 is 1 day and suddenly Ukraine has dozens of squadrons of F-16s, F18s, F-22s and even a carrier group. All """lend leased""" by the US.
This war will continue for a few months at least, shouldn't that be enough for a trained fighter pilot to get familiar with a new plane?
I guess the bigger challenge would be mechanics and the logistics tail. I wonder if that idea would even be viable.
Training someone to fly an aircraft, and training them to be combat ready in said aircraft are two different phases of readiness.
I don't know shit about piloting, but I do know that it's gonna take a lot of flight hours to prep enough ukis to get them ready to fly over Ukraine.
THIS ->
Combat effective pilots need "several hundred hours" of flight time. I have no doubt that you can trim that down a little bit for an emergency and with seasoned pilots from other platforms, but you aren't going to take someone who has never flown an F-15/16 and put them into combat for anything less than 200 hours, and probably more like 400 hours. And, make it as intense as you will, that's not happening in 20 days. It has to be spread out so that the learning and the training can be absorbed by the pilot. 100 days is probably too aggressive, 150-200 is probably realistic for an emergency situation.
This idea has merit for two things:
1) the war is still ongoing come 2023
2) migrating Ukraine pilots to U.S. platforms (F-35) for post-war
Remember this when people are discussing the 30 or 50 new weapons platforms being shipped into Ukraine. The training isn't as intense as fighter aircraft, but it is a huge factor in how fast the systems can be shipped in and implemented on a battlefield ... without experiencing catastrophic failures, losses, and captures.
This is also why modern Western tactics focus on preserving the personnel over saving equipment. New equipment can be manufactured, but trained & talented personnel is a motherfricker to replace, especially on modern high-tech platforms.
All you need is a few cameras in your wienerpit and live stream it to some actual pilot on the ground and communicate via radio.
He can help a pilot with only 100 hours become an ace.
>teamviewer but its for f15
>DO NOT REDEEM MISSILE, SIR! DO NOT REDEEM!
I'm
Thanks for that dopamine hit.
Juice was saying some shit that there are Ukrainian pilots that have some hours on the F-15 thanks to cross-training, but how true is that can't really be confirmed.
Other then that, it really depends on the pilot, there are arguments for both helping pilots to transition from their soviet crap to F-15's/F-16's and training new cadets that haven't been corrupted by said soviet crap. But the point remains, it wouldn't be done in a jiffy, or even two jiffies. Thankfully for them, the war will go on for much longer then that.
I don't know. I'm not a pilot but I've heard stories of veteran pilots used to flying an f16 struggling to make the transition to the f35 because it's apparently a completly different airplane. That at least gives me the feeling that it's not as simple as it sounds
I think the reason those pilots were struggling to transition was because of how different the systems in the F35 are compared to the systems in the F15/16. F15/16 pilots rely a lot on more narrow radar and sightlines, while the F35 gives much more situational awareness that many pilots just aren't used to using if they weren't originally trained on it.
just say they are ukranian pilots but when ever you try to listen to their comms its english
i mean what are the russians gonna do
declare a special decentralization operation?
Yeah bro we mastered the M109 in 1 day bro, shits easy
is this one of those ball lightning things?
Yes, and they unironically terrify me
>Realistically speaking how long would it take for the Ukrops to really get good at this?
If you're talking about full training in western A/A and A/G tacticsthen approx one year.
Training only on the systems and flight characteristics of the jets - 2 months or so, but their combat efficiency would be very low.
That is assuming perfect weather and maintenance allowing for 5-7 sorties per pilot per week, and assuming pilots with prior experience in fighter attack aircraft.
Training maintenance and support crew would also take significant time and effort.
>Bill reaches senate
>It gets pushed back to the house
>Initiative changed to train ukis on F-35
>Bill passes congress and signed into law
This is the unpreventable future
You need to ad
>MTG and Bobert screaming
>confused Tucker
between each of those steps tho
>MTG and Bobert screaming
Man I hate them. I like their spirit, but damn they're just a couple of do-nothing dumb bawds who exist only to make sick social media burns and headlines but not actually contribute anything. Controlled opposition as /misc/ might say before returning to talking about trannies.
F-35 shills can't keep getting away with it!
>How would these impact the war?
If Ukraine gets F-15 and -16s they'd skullfrick the Russian Air Force out of the skies.
f-15 would be useless, if Iran backed rebels can shoot them down, Russia can do it even better.
I'm not calling bullshit but I need a link to the event because all I'm finding is an F-15 shooting down an Iranian drone and F15s fricking up Iranian backed militias. Also, the Russians wouldn't do better as everyone expected them to destroy the Ukranian Air Force in 3 days and it's using old Soviet aircraft to blow up Russian ammo dumps.
Houthis
>Houthis
So an F-15 that was damaged and made it back to base but wasnt shot down?
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a14929167/yemen-rebels-shot-down-f15-tornado/
Probably gets his news from Russia Today.
>if Iran backed rebels can shoot them down
Hello where is the proofs? :DDD
Im calling it, Top Gun Ukraïna is going to be next summers blockbuster.
Training these pilots on western aircraft will take months at a minimum, and is highly unlikely to pass through Congress, Senate, and the White House. The pentagon has at many points discussed this idea, but stated that it simply isn’t feasible. They’ve stated a multitude of times that use of western aircraft by the Ukrainians increases the odds of a larger conflict breaking out dramatically. Aircraft are great with regards to combined arms combat. The problem however is this war has turned into nothing more than an artillery and drone slugging match with the occasional ballistic missile. There’s a massive stalemate currently with neither force being capable of projecting offensively. The Ukrainians are short on armored vehicles, tanks, anti-air systems, and artillery. To put it plainly as great as the F-15 and F-16 are respectively what they might be able to accomplish operating alone over LNR and DPR is questionable especially if Russia did move up its more modern S-300 and S-400 missile batteries. I think if anything they would get far more use out of being sent more Su-27 and Su-25 which they already know how to operate. We could simply replenish the donated arms of NATO allies with F-16s and F-15s. It would put our equipment at less risk, while still providing the Ukrainians with a quick, cheap, and efficient way to conduct strikes.
>use of western aircraft by the Ukrainians increases the odds of a larger conflict breaking out dramatically
How so? As long as they're not taking off from from NATO air fields, how does that change anything?
The west has very carefully tip-toed around arming Ukraine in ways that won’t provoke the outbreak of a larger conflict. This is why we initially denied Ukraine the HIMARS systems in the end of course we did provide them with the HIMARS but we provided them with a much shorter range munition not capable of striking inside of Russia. With regards to aircraft you have to understand Ukraine uses them in a very peculiar manner. Unlike the west that favors a combined arms doctrine Ukraine likes to use its air resources to strike deep inside occupied territory. A strike into Russia using American warplanes would very likely result in an open conflict breaking out with the west. You have to understand that 91% of Russians support the conflict in Ukraine and knowing that america supplied the “enemy” with their weapons in order to strike them in their own country would create a National outcry for a retaliatory measure. This is specifically why the pentagon has MANY times stated that they don’t think it’s in the west’s interest to provide them with our aircraft. It would be far better to provide them with donated platforms they already know like Su-27 and Su-25. Plus if they lose them in combat it can’t be traced back as easily to the west. I know most people would likely say “oh well frick the Russians they can’t do anything anyways!” The truth is the regardless of the stalemate and losses in Ukraine Russia still has a capable of military, plenty of armored vehicles, tanks, aircraft, anti-air systems, ballistic missiles, nuclear ICBM’s, and plenty of rifles to sustain their military for the foreseeable future. I know /k/ likes to dog on Russia due to the invasion, but underestimating your enemy is one of the worst mistakes you can make as a tactician.
>Russia still has a capable of military
Da, I am of agreeing. Russia very stronk, we should not continue support for ukrop banderites.
T. John from masachusets oblast
I see your reading comprehension isn’t the best.
>This is why we initially denied Ukraine the HIMARS systems
Initially they denied anything that wasn't a Javelin or similar low level trash. These "barriers" were pushed every 2 weeks. What Ukraine is denied today will be given to it tomorrow. Nobody is afraid that Ukraine will use western planes to attack Russia proper because they won't do that, first and foremost. And, importantly, it's unlikely that Russian AA is actually so shit that F15 would fly deep into their territory.
>And, importantly, it's unlikely that Russian AA is actually so shit that F15 would fly deep into their territory.
Evidence says otherwise lmao
it makes much more sense for Ukies to not strike any targets on Russian soil with Western-supplied gibs since West might just stop supplying them.
>larger conflict
Western strategic missile forces disagree.
Why would Russia want tp get 100% annihilated because of NATO welcoming Ukraine to the western sphere of influence?
>They’ve stated a multitude of times that use of western aircraft by the Ukrainians increases the odds of a larger conflict breaking out dramatically
This is outdated. Everyone understood about 1.5 months ago that Russians won't do shit no matter what Ukraine is provided with. Russians have responded with nothing but barking to every single escalation.
See
>Training these pilots on western aircraft will take months
This war started in February.
We ought to dump our a10s off on them. Give em the best last great sendoff possible.
>send F-16s and advisors to train the Ukrainians on how to fly them
>have the advisors start flying combat missions while pretending to be Ukrainians
>war over in a week and Russia can't retaliate
Yes Alex, I’d like to take “what was Vietnam” for 400!
>send special forces advisors over to vietnam to train the South Vietnamese how to fight
>have advisors start fighting in combat missions while pretending to be ARVN
>war is over in a few weeks and North Vietnam can’t retaliate
Great plan, Anon. Truly our greatest mind is at work.
Correct war wrong side. Soviet and Chinese "Advisors" flew combat missions during both Vietnam and Korea, sorties by Soviet advisors outnumbered sorties by Koreans. Once the Chinese entered the war, the vast majority of sorties were flow by Chinese.
I can see training them on F16's, but we don't have many/any extra F15s lying around, so I don't see the point.
Saudis proved that strike eagles don’t fair too well in contested airspace…and that’s against Yemen…
Saudi Arabia is garbage at war, Ukraine isn't