Massive casualties anyway because how do you suppose evacuating an auditorium full of children with a bunch of Chechens standing on top of explosives with dead man's switch among them? Moscow theater siege are much easier case to handle imo.
I don't think there's many countries in the world that would have shelled a school full of children with thermobaric explosives and rocket propelled grenades.
>Massive casualties anyway because how do you suppose evacuating an auditorium full of children
Well, first of all, you don't fire thermobaric rockets in that auditorium.
>with dead man's switch among them?
I'm pretty sure that if they actually had dead man's switch the end result would had been a crater. More probably are simple switches.
They literally blasted all those schoolchildren with massive amounts of fentanyl, do you think that a unconscious terrorist would keep pressing the switch?
Same shit, maybe slightly better performance, maybe slightly worse. People obsess over the RPO-A usage, but that was on an MG nest far away from the hostages and destroying entrenched positions is primarily what thermobarics are designed for. Fact is, beslan and the theatre siege are both nightmare scenarios for any SOF unit.
The theatre siege probably wouldn't have gone so disastrously wrong if they hadnt been so secret squirrel about the chemical agent involved and had been upfront with the first responders beforehand that it was opioid based and they needed a shit ton of narcan for everyone.
I don't disagree. In both cases, the Chechens really did cover all their bases, they are commendable hostage situations. Part of that is because they were FSB false flags that got backstabbed, but even in their own right they created a pair of scenarios that were effectively foolproof. Personally I think western SOF would see a raid on nearly 1k hostages rigged to blow as being too risky and negotiate their release, then hunted down the hostage takers later; which is probably the most pragmatic way to handle things.
The problem was that when they brought people out they ignored literally every single medical guideline involving fricked up respiratory systems and thus had a bunch of hostages asphyxiating while lying on the ground improperly. Made even worse by medical crews who came prepared for an entirely different emergency than what was going on (they expected bullet wounds and other similar injuries, not toxic exposure). All while said hostages were just laid out right in the elements to get snowed on with not even a tarp for cover, as they also got robbed of their money and valuables. The fact that you even have to ponder if this was all intentional on Russia’s part should say enough about it as a country.
idk about SOF but I'm a police officer and my department's standing policy regarding hostage situations has always been to lock down the building and wait it out unless there are hostages already being killed or in imminent danger of being killed.
It couldn't happen in western country to begin with.
Because there would be no Putin to forbid any possible negotiator to even open the mouth in fear people may like them and they would win his next elections, despite terrorists being clearly open to negotiations.
Because there would be no Putin to order media to downplay the severity of situation just for the sake of saving his ratings, provoking terrorists on more drastic measures.
And because there would be no Putin who reignited whole chechen shitshow to begin with, just for the sake of pumping his ratings and winning elections.
Sure russian SOF is pants on head moronic morons, but by far more damage was done by the extremely sociopathic handling from the top.
So you double down. If I said "Guys what is the best loadout for killing aliens on the moon Titan?"
It is irrelevant that we can get people to Titan yet, the Hypothetical is once we do get there. You saying a hypothetical can't happen is irrelevant to all hypotheticals because they are all made up bullshit
not the absolute clusterfrick that happened, that's for damn sure.
Beslan makes Waco or Ruby Ridge look like shining models of exemplary crisis response.
It singlehandedly caused a reassessment of Russia's capabilities across the global military intelligence community from "global near peer" down to "Keystone Kops"
Depends, but it probably would have gone about the same just with the Chechens doing more of the killing. Belsan was a failure in crowd control, and the hostage takers were the worst type, those wanting to send a message. Death was always their plan, its just a question of how many.
Probably something similar to the Iranian embassy siege. They’ll be on the horn for as long as it takes to negotiate, but if anyone is killed then they send in the high speed death squad prepared beforehand sneaky beaky like to frick shit up with breaching tools that aren’t thermobaric warheads. There will likely still be deaths, but it wouldn’t be nearly as bad.
It's not about the special forces. It's about the paramedics being told that everyone is overdosing on fentanyl gas and they all need a shot of narcan up their noses.
The plan was solid otherwise
depends on the era
Massive casualties anyway because how do you suppose evacuating an auditorium full of children with a bunch of Chechens standing on top of explosives with dead man's switch among them? Moscow theater siege are much easier case to handle imo.
I don't think there's many countries in the world that would have shelled a school full of children with thermobaric explosives and rocket propelled grenades.
Based.
Can't have a hostage situations without hostages.
>Most western democracies begin to fidget in the corner
Didnt they gas the theather shot the chens , ant gave medics some qntidote but in too small quantities and many many civies died
antidote was expired so the civies died.
>Massive casualties anyway because how do you suppose evacuating an auditorium full of children
Well, first of all, you don't fire thermobaric rockets in that auditorium.
>with dead man's switch among them?
I'm pretty sure that if they actually had dead man's switch the end result would had been a crater. More probably are simple switches.
They literally blasted all those schoolchildren with massive amounts of fentanyl, do you think that a unconscious terrorist would keep pressing the switch?
The use of thermobarics did nothing to reduce civilian casualties.
It reduced the civilians
i've jerked off to the pics. please tell me i'm not the only one i feel a little bit ashamed.
They were pretty hot if I'm gonna be honest. Not my most regrettable fap
>hey guys look I really belong on the chans cus im so wild!!!
grow up
Check Waco TX article on Wikipedia
Special forces aren't exactly the same as feds. Feds are literal morons who get ass whooped by hick cops
Same shit, maybe slightly better performance, maybe slightly worse. People obsess over the RPO-A usage, but that was on an MG nest far away from the hostages and destroying entrenched positions is primarily what thermobarics are designed for. Fact is, beslan and the theatre siege are both nightmare scenarios for any SOF unit.
The theatre siege probably wouldn't have gone so disastrously wrong if they hadnt been so secret squirrel about the chemical agent involved and had been upfront with the first responders beforehand that it was opioid based and they needed a shit ton of narcan for everyone.
I don't disagree. In both cases, the Chechens really did cover all their bases, they are commendable hostage situations. Part of that is because they were FSB false flags that got backstabbed, but even in their own right they created a pair of scenarios that were effectively foolproof. Personally I think western SOF would see a raid on nearly 1k hostages rigged to blow as being too risky and negotiate their release, then hunted down the hostage takers later; which is probably the most pragmatic way to handle things.
>Part of that is because they were FSB false flags
yup
As long aa one hostage lives, it doesn't matter if the other 999 dies. You saved a life and a life will only be worth one life.
Fr? I knew they gassed em but I didn't know they dosed em with straight up lean vapor. That sounds fricking lit
The problem was that when they brought people out they ignored literally every single medical guideline involving fricked up respiratory systems and thus had a bunch of hostages asphyxiating while lying on the ground improperly. Made even worse by medical crews who came prepared for an entirely different emergency than what was going on (they expected bullet wounds and other similar injuries, not toxic exposure). All while said hostages were just laid out right in the elements to get snowed on with not even a tarp for cover, as they also got robbed of their money and valuables. The fact that you even have to ponder if this was all intentional on Russia’s part should say enough about it as a country.
>Fentanyl gas
I feel like FBI HRT wouldn't sabotage or arrest the negotiators, even if only using them as a distraction.
They would make big glass dome plant over school
They would have jerked around for hours outside until everybody is dead like an American swat team
idk about SOF but I'm a police officer and my department's standing policy regarding hostage situations has always been to lock down the building and wait it out unless there are hostages already being killed or in imminent danger of being killed.
>my department's standing policy
we're well aware of your cowardice
It couldn't happen in western country to begin with.
Because there would be no Putin to forbid any possible negotiator to even open the mouth in fear people may like them and they would win his next elections, despite terrorists being clearly open to negotiations.
Because there would be no Putin to order media to downplay the severity of situation just for the sake of saving his ratings, provoking terrorists on more drastic measures.
And because there would be no Putin who reignited whole chechen shitshow to begin with, just for the sake of pumping his ratings and winning elections.
Sure russian SOF is pants on head moronic morons, but by far more damage was done by the extremely sociopathic handling from the top.
Dude you are moronic. OP asked IF western sf did the rescue if it would have been different. It's a fricking HYPOTHETICAL
And I said the situation itself wouldn't be possible because of how different western country would handle it, what's wrong with you ffs
So you double down. If I said "Guys what is the best loadout for killing aliens on the moon Titan?"
It is irrelevant that we can get people to Titan yet, the Hypothetical is once we do get there. You saying a hypothetical can't happen is irrelevant to all hypotheticals because they are all made up bullshit
As shitty as Russians are, this was basically a scenario that couldn't be won, shit was fricked from the start.
>SEALS
>have the Airforce forward controller do the rescue, die in the process, then leave
>Delda
>borderline flawless extraction
>SAS
>call that one guy posted in Kenya
not the absolute clusterfrick that happened, that's for damn sure.
Beslan makes Waco or Ruby Ridge look like shining models of exemplary crisis response.
It singlehandedly caused a reassessment of Russia's capabilities across the global military intelligence community from "global near peer" down to "Keystone Kops"
Depends, but it probably would have gone about the same just with the Chechens doing more of the killing. Belsan was a failure in crowd control, and the hostage takers were the worst type, those wanting to send a message. Death was always their plan, its just a question of how many.
>VDV Section.
This meme is prophetic.
>prophetic
That literally happened in 2015 newbie
Probably something similar to the Iranian embassy siege. They’ll be on the horn for as long as it takes to negotiate, but if anyone is killed then they send in the high speed death squad prepared beforehand sneaky beaky like to frick shit up with breaching tools that aren’t thermobaric warheads. There will likely still be deaths, but it wouldn’t be nearly as bad.
This one would have been a shitfest regardless. The mudslimes knew what they were doing.
.357 at close range
Wrong special forces.
>the seals
Memoirs or something
>ksk
Idk
It's not about the special forces. It's about the paramedics being told that everyone is overdosing on fentanyl gas and they all need a shot of narcan up their noses.
The plan was solid otherwise