Its time to get my first rifle. I have been really drawn to the 308 cartridge, the ar10 platform specifically.
My buddy who's gun knowledge is generally deeper than mine swears that the whole idea of civilian battle rifles shooting big boy bullets is mostly a meme, that I'd be much better served with something in 556 due to commonality of ammo and ammo weight.
Are there any real advantages to going the BR route beyond Rule of Cool?
from how far do you want to hit targets, and how much energy do you want in the round when it hits?
do you intend to shoot often, or infrequently? do you have the money to burn on ammunition for larger cartridges if you're going to shoot often?
Probably 500ish either way.
The longer range is a big bonus. Are there any 308 loadings that will pen lvl 4 ceramic?
Do you have any contacts in Switzerland?
>any 308 loadings that will pen lvl 4 ceramic
No
That's why it's a meme, 5.56 can hit out to 600m even 700m just fine. You are never going to see an engagement distance beyond that where 308s extra velocity will make a difference.
And neither of them are going through a plate.
308s only useful area is in a highly tuned bolt action or ar10 action with good accuracy as a dedicated sniper rifle
>where 308s extra velocity
Know how I know you don't know what you're talking about?
Maybe just say it instead of being a moronic little homosexual.
308 carries more velocity at longer ranges.
Are you saying 308 has a lower effective range than 5.56?
Backtrack more, homosexual.
????
I hope you are trolling and not just a schizo. Either way have a nice day homosexual.
You are an actual fricking moron holy shit
Explain how?
Sure a 308 SBR can outpreform a 5.56 full size, but to what end?
A 11 inch 5.56 SBR can hit out to 700m just fine as seen here
Or a 10.5 5.56 to 500m as seen here
You will NEVER be taking shots to 1km lmao, this isn't Afghanistan or anywhere in the wide open sandbox which is where all this distance shooting moronation comes from. Even in the sandbox you aren't shooting past 700m.
So in the end you are carrying less, heavier ammo, a heavier gun, to get the same end result preformance as a 5.56
308 is not going through a plate even out of a 26 inch barrel.
>308 is not going through a plate even out of a 26 inch barrel.
it penetrates walls of concrete and other hard surfaces, it gets way more penetration than 556, it absolutely is going to penetrate a plate, and if the first shot doesn't the second will.
>DUDE IT FRICKING SMASHES CONCRETE ITS SO FRICKING POWERFUL!!!
holy shit, did I just get teleported to 2008?
>Captcha = sassy /k/
Barrier blindness is a non-trivial advantage of .308 over 5.56
You are such a dumb fricking Black person holy shit. Yes, you can eventually make contact with a steel plate at 700m with just about any firearm, do you need me to post the guy shooting 1km with a hipoint carbine, so I can argue in bad faith like you?
Not everyone lives in an urban hellhole like you, actual humans live in places with reasonable sightlines and/or areas of dense vegetation.
No one cares about armor penetration, outside of the context of projectiles incorporating tungsten. .308 AP will defeat level 4 armor. I wouldn't be surprised if m80a1 projectiles, loaded hot enough, could defeat some of the cheaper lvl4 offerings.
You're a moron and I'm done arguing with you. I'll just say this once again.
This is not Afghanistan, you will never be taking an engagement past 500m even in rural America.
And if you are picking fights past 300m you are moronic.
This is a good point I didn't think of, is the ability to not deflect as much through brush and bushes really worth the extra weight and lower amount of carryable ammo though?
You replied to me twice and you're still a dumb Black person. Take a trip to Montana and then tell me that you still hold your fricking moronic Black person opinions. I would take a .308 SBR over an 5.56 all day, unless I was doing exclusively cqb fot some frickoff moronic reason.
Again, you are moronic. This isn't far cry 5.
When SHTF you are gonna go sit on top of a mountain waiting to get into long range sniper battles with people for no reason lol?
Even if that's what you were doing for God knows what braindead reason 5.56 would serve you just fine.
Hopefully OP got what he was looking for out of this thread. I'm done with this moronation so I'll let the 308tards take over and spew their cope uncontested.
You are a dumb Black person
>308s can't penetrate body armor but 556 can
are you fricking moronic.
>none of them are getting througha plate
oh wait you are
>308s can't penetrate body armor but 556 can
What? Where did I say this?
Neither of them are going through a plate.
If you are going to make your own AP tungsten bullets and uses bubba's super hot powder loaded to 3x max pressure limits then sure maybe you can get 308 through a plate. At that point you can get 5.56 through a plate aswell.
There's nothing cool about an AR. And the opinion of someone who thinks ARs are cool is worthless.
So you and your homosexual friend are both wrong.
.308 is based and the AR10 is by far the best price/performance for chucking it
homosexual Black person
There aren't really any commercial loadings of any reasonably man-portable cartridges that penetrate lvl 4 armor. There used to be a pretty neat .pdf floating around with information on how to roll your own AP ammo with tungsten carbide tips.
moron take. .308 SBRs with proper loadings handily outperform even 20" AR15s, and full-length rifles are easily capable of 1km+ with factory ammo. Factory match ammo is also generally better, more available, and often the same price or less than comparable 5.56, ime.
I agree that that guy is moronic but IMI 77 grain bthp is like 75 cents a round right now. I dont believe there is any .308 ammo capable of sub MOA that cheap
>theres nothing cool about an ar15
Wat is dis means? Ar yu wlost?
sorry about you getting raped by the ar
>AR-10
>first rifle
wew lad
I mean I used my m4 as a grunt. At least on range days. Also my sears. 22lr
>any advantages to .308
I think the benefits of 5.56 make it objectively better within 200 yards and the benefits of .308 make it objectively better past 350 yards. inbetween they're pretty equal. For a battle rifle to be not meme tier it has to be accurate enough to be valuable at distance with enough magnification to make that distance easier. For a battle rifle to be an actual practical decision for your area it has to be a comparable weight to a similarly set up rifle in 5.56 and you actually have to live somewhere where that distance capability is valuable. As such I think the most practical battle rifle is a Scar 17 and will remain a Scar 17 for the foreseeable future, if you can afford one and if you live somewhere where the extra range is valuable
>As such I think the most practical battle rifle is a Scar 17
How exactly is that going to be more practical than just about any well made AR-10? Regardless of the quality of the scar the price point is at "I want something fancy for the frick of it", which is not what OP is asking about.
The SCAR is very pratical for transferring US money to Europe.
I love these threads because it makes hipsters who make arguments on why x caliber is completely worthless compared to the far superior x caliber slither into the open.
>if you want what a 308 does get a 308
>if you want what a 5.56 does get 5.56
Everyone else will just tell you how you actually want x thing in the same fashion of a fudd gunstore clerk telling grandmas they should carry snubnose 38s because of the pink grip instead of tupperware semi autos.
>the same fashion of a fudd gunstore clerk telling grandmas they should carry snubnose 38s because of the pink grip instead of tupperware semi autos.
Hey man, that is good advice. The grandma doesn't have training and snubs are '50's tv simple.
>t. fudd
>/arg/meets /brg/
What did I expect?
>308 picrel
Also, I'm not waiting.
Whatever your buddy's larper reasoning is, he's wrong.
AR-10 is the better option for civilian use. .308 is just as ubiquitous as 5.56, and you have no realistic scenario in which you need 100+ rounds in your rifle loadout even if you get into some heavy shit. Militaries use intermediate cartridges because they have logistics to justify shooting 300+ rounds in every engagement. You will do much better with something that can hit someone hiding behind something 5.56 won't go through consistently as well as the increased capability to kill in one shot.
Good post. .308 also shreds light cover. Pic rel is a car I was testing M80 ball on.
Hey! Why you shooted my moms car! ?
Your moms car provided a lot of good information. Saw non-jacketed .38s bounce off windshield. 5.56 m855 from a 20 inch barrel made it through a lot of the car, but was stopped by the pillars and by mechanisms in the doors sometimes. .308 M80 punched through everything but the engine block and steel wheels. 9mm did well for handguns. 12 gauge 00 buck didnt do too hot. Sometimes didnt even make it through one door.
Recently gave up on the Scar as I just can’t find one or, frankly, afford one. Is the PTR 91 a meme, and if so, could I buy a Sig Tread and upgrade the barrel, stock etc so something remotely close to a decent battle rifle?
They’re both fine choices. Do you want to hunt with it? A .308 will kill any animal in north america efficiently, and many states mandate .23 size calibers or larger for deer. If you just want general larping, a 5.56 gun will let you shoot/train more for the same $$. If you want longer range or more barrier blindness, a .308 is superior. They’re both good choices. That said, AR10s are more finnicky than 15s by a long shot.
since you will never use your gun for anything it doesn't matter what you get
oh, you might use it? for what
why do people write posts asking if X or Y is better and never say for what
Im sorry to have upset you anon. I was asking in regards to combat. Only the Lord knows what tomorrow will bring.
just get whatever you want
flip a coin and let the cruel hand of fate decide for you
Know your use case. If you don't need barrier penetration, go with 5.56 for the cheaper ammo and faster follow-ups.
If you're willing to sacrifice maneuverability indoors for the ability to be reliably lethal past 300m, through exterior doors or other intermediate cover, or be able to rapidly immobilize a car engine with a mag dump, then go with a battle rifle.
I personally hate how ballistic .308 is, but it's readily available and has tons of super reliable platforms and under 300m the terminal ballistics are almost trivial.
If you're looking for a reliable lead thrower for dealing with real world threats you'd encounter in rural situations like boars or shady trespassers at range, a BR is fine. If you're looking for a fashion statement to make you feel manly as you stand around larping at political events, then I suppose it's fine too. If you're looking for something practical for war (you're not), it's a bit too long and heavy for modern dismounted combat unless you're up against people who all have mil grade body armor.
Don't agonize over gun choices, you're going to buy both eventually, neither is better to learn on, just depends whether you want to spend most of your practice time shooting fast or shooting far
I don't mean this in a consumerist way, it's just that realistically those are both important/non-negotiable roles to have filled in your arsenal
Keep ammo cost in mind