>xaxaxaxa what are you going to do about our KA-52 Attack Helicopters dirty nafo troony >REEEEEEEEEE WHY ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING ABOUT OUR ATTACK HELICOPTERS
welcomed but very overdue
imo this is probably a reaction to storm shadow
that being said they genuinely deserve this, i hope when they get f-16s the americans shower them in sdbs just to rub it the frick in
imo this is probably a reaction to storm shadow
that being said they genuinely deserve this, i hope when they get f-16s the americans shower them in sdbs just to rub it the frick in
yeah, I think this is the "slow steady" ramping up that Biden's been doing but I think this shit is too slow. We have been too scared of Russia and we should have be at the F-16 stage like right now rather than like a year.
Russians have showed both how stupid and dangerous they are with the dam. They could very well do something with the ZNPP.
How hard would it be to donate CALCM/JASSMs (just a few) to Ukraine, then have US B2s running deniable ops to launch them? wtf could Russia even do about it?
11 months ago
Anonymous
>have US B2s running deniable ops
Ukrainians were given JDAMs..
JDAMs now occasionally fall from the sky..
History is 20/20 I know, so we should have been sending top notch air defenses like the Patriot system to Ukraine *before* the war. This war is largely one of failed deterance and the deep irony is that if USA had followed harder deterance rather than fearing provoking Russia is that Russia would have never attacked and thus be in a better position. Dictators are moron tier and you can't trust them to not be self-destructive you have to force them.
pretty much this.
Politicians always tend to go for "miniumum" option hoping that it will be enough to stabilize shit without upsetting anyone, rather than immediate overkill aimed at ending things as quickly and decisively as possible.
And this ineviteably allows problem to fester and grow into a tumorous pile of shit.
You want to know the origin of current russian homosexualry?
It can all be blamed on Bong general Jackson at pristina airport in 1999.
Instead of blocking the airport like he was ordered to, he chickened out and backed off because >i wont start a world war 3 , hurr durr
Fricking clown. Russians were literally testing him, and he failed miserably. That was the precise moment that gave russians the idea that if they push, NATO will always blink first and back off to avoid confrontation.
Mind you, he was not ordered to actually shot at russians or cause them any other harm. Literally all he had to do was park few trucks on runway, and watch VDV planes circle around, seethe, and go back to where they came.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Not kill Russians
Clark told him to "destroy" and "overpower" them
Johnson made the right decision at the time
11 months ago
Anonymous
He made extremely wrong decision.
Back then russians were not in position to do shit, if jackson did his job, the planes could either turn back or commit suicide by crashing on runway, while the clowns already down there could eithe seethe or commit suicide by cop by being the ones to shoot first against vastly superior opponent.
Bongs cucked out back then, and world suffers consequences to this day.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No he did not. Vatniks only understand force.
11 months ago
Anonymous
As shown by American experience in Syria, blowing up vatniks makes them think twice where words don't suffice.
>artillery, himars, tanks and now jets
Unironically more of each. Right now a lot of the heavy equipment sent seems to arrive as a trickle. For a counteroffensive I'd personally like to see at least 600-1,000 Western tanks delivered to Ukraine.
It's similar to WWI, where new technology and strategies would be tested in localized instances instead of being deployed across the front, allowing their enemy to inoculate against them.
Like if we sent a ton of ATACMS it would allow the Ukies to suddenly destroy important control centers and depots, sending Russian lines into temporary chaos. If we only send a few at a time, the Russians will begin preparing and working around them.
Boots on the ground
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jun/8/some-nations-could-send-troops-defend-ukraine-says/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/07/nato-members-may-send-troops-to-ukraine-warns-former-alliance-chief
Coalition of the Willing 2 (pick em) >US >UK >Poland >Australia >Baltic shitholes
Who else?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Japan's sending PlayStations
11 months ago
Sage
Oil? Who said anything about, b***h? You cookin'?
11 months ago
Anonymous
US probably won't send boots on the ground unless something even bigger than the NK dam happens.
Pretty much only if nukes are used.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Poles and Balts/UK. I want to see every russian pop a blood vessel hearing about it. >t. Pole
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Baltic shitholes
them breaking free from the bears trash pile and flourishing in superiority in every single way really triggers ziggers bad, dosen't it?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Albania always likes to send troops to kill slavshits. I’m sure more people would volunteer to join their army if it meant you get to kill Russians.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That's the entire reason the Spanish Blue existed in WW2.
>They could very well do something with the ZNPP.
they are using it as a ammo dump and according to the leaks from local ukranian workers there they have rigged up the reactors with explosives "just in case"
Say what you will but Russia would be completely fricked if they didn't. They would have been encircled from 2 points. Blowing up the dam stopped the entire middle/south end from being pincered so no matter what NATO does in response it would be better than how fricked they would have been if they didn't.
The thing is people act like they knew for sure 100% that Ukraine would attack across the river en masse, when there really wasn't any indication that they would. Russia stopped a hypothetical flanking attack in return for fricking over Crimea's long term stability and further tanking their international standing.
russia (or rather, the mafia in charge of it) doesn't care about crimea or its international standing or *anything* except survival and staying in power. putin would happily shovel a thousand russian babies into the arms of moloch every morning if it means he gets to live for one more day.
Mark my words they'll blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP. Scorched earth every step backward. "If we can't have it, then it must be destroyed".
Two counterpoints. Crimea was doing just fine without water from the Crimea canal before the war, despite its population increasing by 20% since 2014. The way they did it was by stopping agriculture and getting food freighted in from Russia.
Second, the dam destruction wasn't intentional. What happened was Russia:
>Used men who didn't understand the nuances of the dam to maintain it >Would only open the sluice gates on their side because they were worried Ukraine would shoot them if they moved the sluice gate crane to the north side >This caused the water level top over because the dam couldn't drain enough water fast enough >It also caused sediment build up and scouring to occur in a focused area >The combination of water top over and scouring resulted in the dam failing on the south side (russia's side)
So it was Russia's fault, but through negligence, not intention.
I see the latest Russian bullshit story is here.
Counterpoint : You're a dirty lying Black person. So a Russian, basically.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why do you think I'm lying? It's the actual truth.
11 months ago
Anonymous
It's literally not
11 months ago
Anonymous
It is. Your twitter screenshot is BS, too. No seismic activity was detected. Here's a video explaining everything with sat photos and input from actual engineers.
11 months ago
Anonymous
There's literally a picture of the seismograph showing an explosion at that point.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No there isn't.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Doubt it. Explosions happen all the time at the front line and there's no evidence suggesting the dam was blown up.
I watched the video. He only said he couldn't gain access to other seismographs data and speculated about a double spike.
Russia blew the damn and even McBride can be wrong occasionally. He even admits he can be wrong and makes videos when he is.
Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
It's completely in form for Russia to do pointless mindlessly evil shit. Like shelling people trying to rescue the victims of the flood they caused.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
Come on, that would be super easy to fake.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
About as legit as the John and Mike from Ohio Oblast American volunteers having their phone call leaked by the Russian Armed Forces as proof that American mercenaries are losing in Ukraine
Gotta love how shills are trying to grasp one doubtful bit of that paragraph and ignoring the rest of the reply and the entire thread calling them out on their bs.
>ATACMS are going to be sent to Ukraine looks like.
Yup. It was only a matter of time considering the constant NATO creeping escalation. The original American neocon plan was to equip the ukies with nuclear weapons, ostensibly created by them, but with the actual fissile material and design provided by USA, then having the ukies fight a short nuclear war with Russia, mutually annihilating both sides, with USA then carpetbagging the ruins. Putin attacked before the ukies managed to build their missile and nuke arsenal, so plan B is now to grind down Russia using Ukraine as a millstone. But that doesnt work unless the ukies are provided with copious amounts of modern weapons and ammunition, so plan B is really costly compared to plan A.
God I wish NATO actually grew some balls and escalated the frick out of this shit. Shaming of US and European imperialism and colonialism is a direct malicious effort of leftards and rightoid nutjobs to deny western world its superiority in the world. The time has come, the scramble for russia and china must commence, the age of humane colonialism will set things right.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
About as legit as the John and Mike from Ohio Oblast American volunteers having their phone call leaked by the Russian Armed Forces as proof that American mercenaries are losing in Ukraine
11 months ago
Anonymous
Gotta watch that first morning krokodil rush. It's a doozy.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Doubt it. Explosions happen all the time at the front line and there's no evidence suggesting the dam was blown up.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Seismic activity has been detected and reported at exactly the same moment & location in over a dozen countries. It will all be presented at the war crime tribunals.
(You) might want to start listening to international news, it's being widely reported with the actual seismic evidence on display. It's literally impossible to detonate an explosion of that magnitude without it being detected in Spain, Italy, Sweden, Poland, Romania, Greece, Japan and every other country in Europe and Asia. It rang the entire continental shield like a bell, with hundreds of seismic stations set up to detect even the slightest earthquakes. Explosions have a distinct signature that cannot be mistaken for an earthquake, and this explosion wasn't just triangulated, it literally has several dozen stations that all pinpoint it exactly in the center of the dam.
But, I get it. (You) are too stupid to understand how basic math and science works, so whatever fantasy you have running in your head doesn't sound moronic to (You). But, to everyone else in the Reality-based world, (You) sound like a five-year old with massive fetal alcohol syndrome combined with intense lead poisoning disabilities.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Anon posts verifiable evidence >Waaahhh but muh nebulous seismic graphs that aren't real
Try to approach the subject with a level head. Russia is responsible, most likely. But to think they did something tactically advantageous to themselves on purpose would be pushing it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>vatBlack person posts bullshit > tries to pretend it's "evidence"
random youtoob channel of some bought and paid for moron is not "evidence"
11 months ago
Anonymous
That guy is more of a fact checker than anything else. He actually got input from that dude who runs Practical Engineering, aka the "why dams collapse" channel. Also his citations on this video are pretty credible.
11 months ago
Anonymous
That guy is more of a fact checker than anything else. He actually got input from that dude who runs Practical Engineering, aka the "why dams collapse" channel. Also his citations on this video are pretty credible.
And again, all McBride said about the seismics is he doesn't have access to them. He's working on the evidence he has, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like concluding someone wasn't murdered because you haven't seen the murder weapon, despite the body being riddled with bullets and the murderer confessing he did it.
>vatBlack person posts bullshit > tries to pretend it's "evidence"
random youtoob channel of some bought and paid for moron is not "evidence"
McBride is legit, but he does occasionally make mistakes. When he does he posts a whole video about it and admits that he was mistaken. I fully expect he'll do that on this occasion. something, I'll note, that the paid prostitutes of of vatniks never do.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Is confronted with undeniable, ahrd evidence that he's lying. >"I'm not lying!"
Literally have a nice day, subhuman trash.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>the latest Russian bullshit story >still put the blame on Russia for 1) invading in the first place and 2) being total morons
Lol
11 months ago
Anonymous
This is how Russian lies often go, though >BEGIN: Russia did nothing wrong, never even heard of dam collapse, what dam? >REVERSAL: Russia doesn't understand how dam could have broken! Dirty Ukrainian tricks! Perfidity! NATO black magic! It could have been anyone but us! >MINIMIZE: If Russia was in any partially responsible for the dam collapse, no part of it was an intentional! Total understandable accident, we assure! >MUDDY: Well, who can say what the answer really is, where the truth lies? I've heard so many different stories that could explain this, from EVIL UKRAINE DOING IT, to EVIL NATO DOING IT, to maybe possibly coincidentally Russia being involved somehow haha idk. Clearly the jury's out still, so we shouldn't hastily jump to conclusions about who blew up the dam!
>Dam coincidentally breaks on the day of Ukie offensive
Do vatniks really expect us to believe this bullshit. Stick to "ukraine/hato did it!" because that makes way more sense than "fricking no one did it, it magically burst the day Ukies were making a push".
>Crimea was doing just fine without water from the Crimea canal before the war, despite its population increasing by 20% since 2014. The way they did it was by stopping agriculture and getting food freighted in from Russia.
Right, so Crimea was basically just a massive resource drain, then.
>seismic activity detected equal to tons of TNT going off >dam destroyed in three separate parts >right after russia closed the dam and increased water levels >coincides with the counteroffensive >dam blows up at 2:30am when no ones paying attention >dam is nuclear war proofed
>Blowing up the dam stopped the entire middle/south end from being pincered
Ukraine is huge. They'd have to strike across a river and advance like 200 miles to "pincer" the troops holding the Zaporozhia front.
And they'd have to jsut strike across the river to bind large numbers of russian troops in place and prevent them from being used to shore up any endangered areas farther east.
Never denied that. Securing one sector of the front frees up reserves for others. Just saying the notion of "pincers" here is mostly thrown around by people drawing arrows on maps without any notion of scale.
I don't think it was part of the plan. Bet they wanted a tiny explosion, then blame it on Ukies for another "muh hohol terrorist" pidor talks. But rusBlack folk, being rusBlack folk, fricked that up and now we have a huge eco catastrophe and potentially Chornobyl 2.0 incoming. >captcha related
imo this is probably a reaction to storm shadow
that being said they genuinely deserve this, i hope when they get f-16s the americans shower them in sdbs just to rub it the frick in
Da, /K/ has always being on the side of Russia against the globohomos and trannies. I can't believe how much glowies changed this place since I came here in may.
honestly i HOPE russians escalate further only so we can fricking eradicate the entirety what is "russian". Culture, History, Children. If its russian it needs to be burned. And not only in ukraine or russia but all over the world :^)
B-b-b-b-but I thought the total failure of the ukrainian offensive (which apparrently consisted of ~half a battalions' worth of vees getting damaged and subsequently recovered) was supposed to shatter the will of the decadent western power and make them cease any further support for the vile ukronazis! Shills on /k/ and russian media cope articles told me so. What happened?!
Beautiful, can't wait for futile bot campaign of smug rus trash. > Xaxaxaxa we left zapo out of good will. Ukr kills childroon
Fuk, this whole country has to kneel like a b***h when this is over. They are shitting up information space like crazy. Since Abt 2007 they are paying the worst of the worst politicians across Europe. Just fking washing machine stealing cancer.
Also, I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as himars, is in fact, gmlrs, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, gmlrs + himars. himars is not a missile unto itself, but rather a missile system made to use a few different missiles, mlrs, gmlrs, and ATACMS being a few of them. Through a peculiar turn of events, glmrs which is widely used today is often called “himars” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically just one part of the himars system, developed by the himars Project. There really is a himars, and these people are using it, but it is the system they use. Gmlrs is one of the missiles : the thing that gets launched from the himars system with 80km range and a small warhead . Gmlrs is an essential part of a himars system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete himars system . Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux
China aren't really proper Russian allies in that they're agreed to help each other. They instead just are planning on buying up Russian resources post-war.
China aren't really proper Russian allies in that they're agreed to help each other. They instead just are planning on buying up Russian resources post-war.
They won't do something that blatant and stupid (at least I think). Instead they'll defacto own it via investments and Russians having so much debt. They NEED someone to pour billions into them and to have expertise to get resouces and China is the right one.
Reminder that Japan argued internally about strike north versus strike south. Strike North faction was about Siberian resources, and the strong military response by the USSR taught them that wasn't possible. China may end up achieving the Japanese imperial dream without firing a single god damn shot.
>defacto own it via investments and Russians having so much debt.
they have been trying to do that for decades. Through rewarding colonizers as well as trying to bribe their way in. Results are that in a dictatorship laws mean shit and they can make up whatever they want. For example changs want to drain Lake Baikal as it is one of the world top largest fresh water reserves and changs have polluted their own beyond heavy pollution.
So they buy themselves in and try to build a single pipeline going from the lake to changstan. Local serfs get unruly as they know this would be the first of many, oblast complains, moscow vetos the deal. Only way they will get their claws deep into the siberian pocket is directly owning it and pushing out the ziggers. Which honestly is doable even for incomptent boobs like them. Pic related
>Reminder that Japan argued internally about strike north versus strike south. Strike North faction was about Siberian resources, and the strong military response by the USSR taught them that wasn't possible. China may end up achieving the Japanese imperial dream without firing a single god damn shot.
Did they not consider Strike North while Operation Barbarossa was going on?
>Did they not consider Strike North while Operation Barbarossa was going on?
This is one of the BIG historical "what ifs". There was no coordination between Japan and Germany. The Strike North faction favored by the army but they lost a major border scuffle. The Strike South faction favored by the Navy wanted to take over SEA to get oil and resources from Euro colonies. Hense Pearl Harbor.
The historical what if is that Japan attacks Siberia while Germany attacks from the West. The USSR has to now fight a two-front war with collapsing lines in the west.
11 months ago
Anonymous
They didn't have jack shit then. IJA was bogged down in China, and japanese overland logistics were so bad, they would have never gotten anywhere relevant other than Vladivostok. That's not a second front, that's a minor distraction.
>You all deserve to burn in the nuclear fire you are provoking. >OOOOK OOOOOK WEZ GONNA NOOOOOOOOOOK
have your handlers get you new material no one even thinks your nukes work anymore >Fricking sodomite satanic homosexuals.
always projection with vatniks and their /misc/nig chimps
Only if it happens soon enough and in sufficient numbers. If this is something that trickles in this Fall or some shit then it's not going to be very helpful. Honestly they needed it like a month ago so they could have been using it to further soften things up, hitting command centers and depots and infra farther back and just in general further stretching logistics.
ah-ah-ah!
do your own research, if you're English speaking it's easy enough to find.
I'm not going to spoonfeed you a bunch of information that is readily available though, especially in the current context and the number of obvious shill threads (and therefore shill posters) in the catalog right now
It's more that Storm Shadow is a more recent development than ATACMS, so it's more sophisticated. That's probably why the US doesn't have many compunctions of sending it over now.
So the significance of ATACMS now is that it just further expands Ukraine's long range precision fire capability and increases the threat potential of their HIMARS systems, which will take pressure off of their air force.
There's no "major advantage" per se they're just totally different weapon systems. Launching from all their existing HIMARS vehicles they're familiar with and have a solid number of and don't require any air is definitely helpful. They're also ballistic rocket missiles not cruise missiles, they go at Mach 3 with a flight ceiling of 160000' while Storm Shadow is subsonic and flies low (and has to, it has an air breathing turbojet engine). Of course, by the same token SS has significantly longer range and more payload (air breathing jet is far, far more efficient then a rocket).
They're just different, both are useful, and at least as importantly is the sheer raw numbers factor. The US has a solid number of ATACMS, total number built is approaching 4000, and even counting stuff used up in wars there are decent reserves. If Ukraine had thousands of Storm Shadows to play with it'd make less of a difference, but even a hundred-someodd ATACMS is purely additive to what they've got and would be of value to them.
Though as I said, less value now then a few weeks ago even. The Biden admin has been too cautious on that front.
Another thing that's part of the "raw numbers factor" as well is simply that ATACMS is like 1/3 the unit cost of Storm Shadow. Cheaper and more economic is very important in this war, in any war really, you ideally want a whole range of stuff so you're only using your fanciest most expensive stuff against the highest value most challenging targets, and can use larger numbers of cheaper stuff for closer targets, and even larger numbers of even cheaper for closer/easier than that etc. Anything ATACMS could take care of instead of SS would be better to use the former for, leaving SS exclusively for more distant things needing a bigger boom.
Another thing that's part of the "raw numbers factor" as well is simply that ATACMS is like 1/3 the unit cost of Storm Shadow. Cheaper and more economic is very important in this war, in any war really, you ideally want a whole range of stuff so you're only using your fanciest most expensive stuff against the highest value most challenging targets, and can use larger numbers of cheaper stuff for closer targets, and even larger numbers of even cheaper for closer/easier than that etc. Anything ATACMS could take care of instead of SS would be better to use the former for, leaving SS exclusively for more distant things needing a bigger boom.
It's more that Storm Shadow is a more recent development than ATACMS, so it's more sophisticated. That's probably why the US doesn't have many compunctions of sending it over now.
So the significance of ATACMS now is that it just further expands Ukraine's long range precision fire capability and increases the threat potential of their HIMARS systems, which will take pressure off of their air force.
thank you for the effortposts, i learned some stuff today
ah-ah-ah!
do your own research, if you're English speaking it's easy enough to find.
I'm not going to spoonfeed you a bunch of information that is readily available though, especially in the current context and the number of obvious shill threads (and therefore shill posters) in the catalog right now
Another thing that's part of the "raw numbers factor" as well is simply that ATACMS is like 1/3 the unit cost of Storm Shadow. Cheaper and more economic is very important in this war, in any war really, you ideally want a whole range of stuff so you're only using your fanciest most expensive stuff against the highest value most challenging targets, and can use larger numbers of cheaper stuff for closer targets, and even larger numbers of even cheaper for closer/easier than that etc. Anything ATACMS could take care of instead of SS would be better to use the former for, leaving SS exclusively for more distant things needing a bigger boom.
It's more that Storm Shadow is a more recent development than ATACMS, so it's more sophisticated. That's probably why the US doesn't have many compunctions of sending it over now.
So the significance of ATACMS now is that it just further expands Ukraine's long range precision fire capability and increases the threat potential of their HIMARS systems, which will take pressure off of their air force.
There's no "major advantage" per se they're just totally different weapon systems. Launching from all their existing HIMARS vehicles they're familiar with and have a solid number of and don't require any air is definitely helpful. They're also ballistic rocket missiles not cruise missiles, they go at Mach 3 with a flight ceiling of 160000' while Storm Shadow is subsonic and flies low (and has to, it has an air breathing turbojet engine). Of course, by the same token SS has significantly longer range and more payload (air breathing jet is far, far more efficient then a rocket).
They're just different, both are useful, and at least as importantly is the sheer raw numbers factor. The US has a solid number of ATACMS, total number built is approaching 4000, and even counting stuff used up in wars there are decent reserves. If Ukraine had thousands of Storm Shadows to play with it'd make less of a difference, but even a hundred-someodd ATACMS is purely additive to what they've got and would be of value to them.
Though as I said, less value now then a few weeks ago even. The Biden admin has been too cautious on that front.
This is why I like /k/. Might not be all accurate (or maybe it is), but there's more than enough information to do searches and verify & learn more. Thank you.
I’ve been trying to explain for a year that just based on the stuff they ask for that Ukraine doesn’t know how to win. The keep asking for mass amounts of heavy arty and stand-off weapons, which they squander on sniping rear targets. Meanwhile Russia uses their guns for actual fire support for the frontline leading to their constantly winning. Anyone who thinks Ukraine can win in their current state is delusional.
I’ve been trying to explain for a year that just based on the stuff they ask for that Ukraine doesn’t know how to win. The keep asking for mass amounts of heavy arty and stand-off weapons, which they squander on sniping rear targets. Meanwhile Russia uses their guns for actual fire support for the frontline leading to their constantly winning. Anyone who thinks Ukraine can win in their current state is delusional.
>ATACMS are going to be sent to Ukraine looks like.
Yup. It was only a matter of time considering the constant NATO creeping escalation. The original American neocon plan was to equip the ukies with nuclear weapons, ostensibly created by them, but with the actual fissile material and design provided by USA, then having the ukies fight a short nuclear war with Russia, mutually annihilating both sides, with USA then carpetbagging the ruins. Putin attacked before the ukies managed to build their missile and nuke arsenal, so plan B is now to grind down Russia using Ukraine as a millstone. But that doesnt work unless the ukies are provided with copious amounts of modern weapons and ammunition, so plan B is really costly compared to plan A.
>Based schizo. Do you think aliens are getting involved too?
The mysterious people going around zapping US state department suits, cia spooks and pentagon middle managers do indeed work for interstellar strongman Ashtar Sheran. Plebs call this "havana syndrome".
Will this make a big difference since they already have StormShadows?
All I know about ATACMS is from Red Dragon where you lose all your stuff from across the map.
Storm shadows need planes as launch platforms, ATACMS uses the HIMARS trucks already deployed and widely used by Ukraine. Same truck, different cargo. It's a very "easy" upgrade.
Storm shadow has a deep penetration warhead with twice the weight of ATACMS' unitary warhead (there are other less comparable versions). ATACMS has a 9m CEP and big blast/frag effect. designed for normal battlefield threats. Storm Shadow is pinpoint accurate and mainly designed to take out high value targets like bunkers and other structures.
They have different use cases. You'd drop a ATACMS on an artillery or SAM position, you wouldn't waste an storm shadow on that.
>UK provides top tier shit to shame the rest of the western powers into following suit in larger volume
The eternal bong can't keep getting away with this
You can radio the rear and have a ATACMS on a position in a few minutes. Or use it for counter battery fire.
Storm Shadow while more lethal on a target requires much higher level planning for it's missions - it needs programmed before launch and a mission put together with attacking aircraft.
One is a strategic weapon one is a tactical weapon. Just because you have a B52 doesn't mean you don't need an A10.
>whatever shall we do >Die like the rest of mobiks and churkas when your barracks are bombed out by MLRS?
check the video, these were your countrymen, blown to smithereens by himars or jdams, how does that make you feel?
>things that never happened
cope
you can throw as many "wunderwaffe" as you want at holol country and the result will not change
you lost from the start
Yeah put your head in the sand, don't worry about your dead and maimed countrymen, family members, yourself...
11 months ago
Anonymous
>nooooooooo! why won't you heckin buy into my propaganda!
cry more glowie
11 months ago
Anonymous
>go away glowie
What do you feel when your countrymen pointlessly die for a hyper corrupt oligarch that will be ruling Russia until 2036? National pride?
11 months ago
Anonymous
how much do they pay you glowie?
what is your shift pattern like?
11 months ago
Anonymous
I get paid with vids of the dead russians and the vids keep on coming
11 months ago
Anonymous
you're being paid too much glowie for how bad of a job you're doing
you should lurk more and learn to fit in better
11 months ago
Anonymous
>you're being paid too much glowie for how bad of a job you're doing
too much? do you really think videos of dead russians are hard to come by?
11 months ago
Anonymous
you've already been made, glowie
you're falling into a sunk cost fallacy right now
find someone stupid enough to believe you
11 months ago
Anonymous
This is not work anymore, I'm just enjoying myself, imagining you too scared to open the video with your dead countrymen, and coming up shit like "AI", "Deepfake", "paid actors in hollywood", etc. Loving it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
glowie I know you're desperate for the last word because you seem to think everyone will believe you if you get it
they won't though
I will generously allow you to gobble my piss and have it though, glowie
thank me later
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're living in a world of delusions, thinking everyone disagreeing with you is a glowie, and all videos with dead russians are AI HATO propaganda. The reality is more complex. I don't really care about anyone believing in anything, I'm just fascinated by you and I just want an honest answer to my question. What do you feel when you see your more and more of your dead countrymen?
Anger? Do you just try not to think about it?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Every poster here is a glowbot.
You are the only organic pidorashka warrior.
Your special task is to defeat our horde.
11 months ago
Anonymous
this but unironically
11 months ago
Anonymous
GO AHEAD CRUSH US TANKIE!
11 months ago
Anonymous
this looks so cool, a fricking xenomorph-f-14-f-15-challenger-2 hybrid. Turns a profit too.
No ATACMS for Ukraine. It sets the wrong precedent. The next time USA wants to do something like Vietnam, Iraq, or Korea, other countries like China or India have a precedent to arm the target nation with medium range strategic level weapons.
"You did it for Ukraine, why are you complaining now?"
>Its different? That depends on your perspective.
That's right, I even wrote why.
The US didn't claim Iraq as their soil, meanwhile we have russia trying to wage a war of aggression and grab land, which have never occurred since WW2.
But anyway I don't think there is going to be russia in long term, so doesn't matter.
HIMARS already happened. Stormshadow already happened. Patriot happened. F-16s and abrams happened. I think we are past the "whataboutism" stage of hesitancy.
>isnt in the US' interests
lmao. My guy, right now anything that can destroy russians in aid of forcing a withdrawal back to pre-2014 borders and bringing an end to this dumb as frick war is absolutely in US interests.The sooner it ends, the sooner world markets will stabilise and the normal pax americana gravy train can pick up speed again.
I mean frick, the limp dicked ness of the Russian response to all this so far almost makes me wonder how painlessly a NATO led no fly zone would bring an end to it.
What long term interests are compromised by providing ATACMS?
If anything it's an excuse to field test them and order 10000 more units and make sure the Marines have endless supplies of the things to chuck at those ridiculous chinese islands.
The only parties that doesn't benefit from supplying Ukraine with ATACMS are Russia and China, the opinions of both should be ignored.
ok:
USSR had supplied Vietnam with arms and training. US did similar things with Afghanistan.
Neither party sent cruise missiles or other strategic weapons to these proxy conflicts. >But defeating the enemy without putting boots on the ground is definitely in our interest!
True! The ability to fight future proxy wars against primitives that are not equipped with strategic level weapons also is in your interest! Same for your enemies.
Thats why you are very restrictive with what hardware your sponsors get. Soviets did the same.
You don't get it. The US didn't provide Afghanis with ATACMS because they could've won without it. The same for soviets in Vietnam.
Now puccia stationed 200k+ military personal and a lot of armor power, this is why Ukraine will receive ATACMS to burn the vermin.
I have doubts cruise missiles existed before 1975.
You imply that precedent is the the decisive factor for making a decision about sending the war aid. I think the choice to not defeat your enemy (or defeat it less efficiently) depends on capabilities rather then "gentleman agreements", especially after 2022. And if Russia is allowed to use cruise missiles in this proxy war, why Ukraine isn't?
>Its not whataboutism,
Sure it is. You're saying China will use whataboutism to justify giving ballistic missiles to North Korea in the event of a conflict on the korean peninsula. America doesn't care about that because they have escalation dominance in terms of what they can bring in to counter such military aid.
I guess I said it wrong then. The idea is very simple: Despite seeming anarchy global diplomacy does follow unwritten rules. If a South African politician says that Chile is a nasty place, then Chile won't respond by restricting trade, this is not viewed as an appropriate response.
If you send ATACMS, then missiles of this kind will enter the toolbox of things you can do in proxy wars. Thats not whataboutism, but a change in the reality of diplomacy. This change is not in US interests.
If anyone willing and capable of waging a proxy war against the US had weapons equivalent to the ATACMS they would've already sent those weapons for the Russians to use
Chinese sent literal "volunteers" to Korea, Soviets sent planes and flew them themselves, same in Vietnam. China and Russia will send everything they got if they feel the benefits outweigh the costs, not if US did something 20 years ago or not.
>China or India >not the next victim of the eagles team >interested to help the victim more than solving internal problems >have enough capabilities to deliver the gibs to the victim
>xaxaxaxa what are you going to do about our KA-52 Attack Helicopters dirty nafo troony
>REEEEEEEEEE WHY ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING ABOUT OUR ATTACK HELICOPTERS
welcomed but very overdue
Russia probably shouldn't have escalated by blowing that fricking dam, huh?
imo this is probably a reaction to storm shadow
that being said they genuinely deserve this, i hope when they get f-16s the americans shower them in sdbs just to rub it the frick in
yeah, I think this is the "slow steady" ramping up that Biden's been doing but I think this shit is too slow. We have been too scared of Russia and we should have be at the F-16 stage like right now rather than like a year.
Russians have showed both how stupid and dangerous they are with the dam. They could very well do something with the ZNPP.
In around a year vests, ammo, artillery, himars, tanks and now jets will be going to Ukraine. What other shit could Biden even send?
C-130s with air deployable pallets of tomahawks comes to mind. Or enough air defenses to cover the entire eastern half of the country.
>pallets
the only true wunderwaffe
this but also B-2's
imagine the seethe
How hard would it be to donate CALCM/JASSMs (just a few) to Ukraine, then have US B2s running deniable ops to launch them? wtf could Russia even do about it?
>have US B2s running deniable ops
Ukrainians were given JDAMs..
JDAMs now occasionally fall from the sky..
History is 20/20 I know, so we should have been sending top notch air defenses like the Patriot system to Ukraine *before* the war. This war is largely one of failed deterance and the deep irony is that if USA had followed harder deterance rather than fearing provoking Russia is that Russia would have never attacked and thus be in a better position. Dictators are moron tier and you can't trust them to not be self-destructive you have to force them.
pretty much this.
Politicians always tend to go for "miniumum" option hoping that it will be enough to stabilize shit without upsetting anyone, rather than immediate overkill aimed at ending things as quickly and decisively as possible.
And this ineviteably allows problem to fester and grow into a tumorous pile of shit.
You want to know the origin of current russian homosexualry?
It can all be blamed on Bong general Jackson at pristina airport in 1999.
Instead of blocking the airport like he was ordered to, he chickened out and backed off because
>i wont start a world war 3 , hurr durr
Fricking clown. Russians were literally testing him, and he failed miserably. That was the precise moment that gave russians the idea that if they push, NATO will always blink first and back off to avoid confrontation.
Mind you, he was not ordered to actually shot at russians or cause them any other harm. Literally all he had to do was park few trucks on runway, and watch VDV planes circle around, seethe, and go back to where they came.
>Not kill Russians
Clark told him to "destroy" and "overpower" them
Johnson made the right decision at the time
He made extremely wrong decision.
Back then russians were not in position to do shit, if jackson did his job, the planes could either turn back or commit suicide by crashing on runway, while the clowns already down there could eithe seethe or commit suicide by cop by being the ones to shoot first against vastly superior opponent.
Bongs cucked out back then, and world suffers consequences to this day.
No he did not. Vatniks only understand force.
As shown by American experience in Syria, blowing up vatniks makes them think twice where words don't suffice.
>top notch air defense
>Patriot
LMAO
7-0 vatBlack person. Seethe more.
the patriots in kyiv are literally dead
proofs?
>artillery, himars, tanks and now jets
Unironically more of each. Right now a lot of the heavy equipment sent seems to arrive as a trickle. For a counteroffensive I'd personally like to see at least 600-1,000 Western tanks delivered to Ukraine.
It's similar to WWI, where new technology and strategies would be tested in localized instances instead of being deployed across the front, allowing their enemy to inoculate against them.
Like if we sent a ton of ATACMS it would allow the Ukies to suddenly destroy important control centers and depots, sending Russian lines into temporary chaos. If we only send a few at a time, the Russians will begin preparing and working around them.
B2
B21
Ftfy
Boots on the ground
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/jun/8/some-nations-could-send-troops-defend-ukraine-says/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/07/nato-members-may-send-troops-to-ukraine-warns-former-alliance-chief
Coalition of the Willing 2 (pick em)
>US
>UK
>Poland
>Australia
>Baltic shitholes
Who else?
Japan's sending PlayStations
Oil? Who said anything about, b***h? You cookin'?
US probably won't send boots on the ground unless something even bigger than the NK dam happens.
Pretty much only if nukes are used.
Poles and Balts/UK. I want to see every russian pop a blood vessel hearing about it.
>t. Pole
>Baltic shitholes
them breaking free from the bears trash pile and flourishing in superiority in every single way really triggers ziggers bad, dosen't it?
Albania always likes to send troops to kill slavshits. I’m sure more people would volunteer to join their army if it meant you get to kill Russians.
That's the entire reason the Spanish Blue existed in WW2.
>warns-former-alliance-chief
Literally nobody.
>What other shit could Biden even send?
Troops
Retired F-16 pilots. Also, "retired" F-16 pilots.
There's no reason why NATO soldiers shouldn't be guarding every one of Ukraine's borders that aren't on the front line.
Minuteman III
M23 chemical mines and
M55 (rocket)
M104 155 mm projectile
M110 155 mm projectile
M114 bomb
M121 155 mm projectile
M125 bomblet
M134 bomblet
M138 bomblet
M2 mortar shell
M34 cluster bomb
M360 105mm
M426 8-inch shell
M43 cluster bomb
M44 generator cluster
M47 bomb
M60 105mm shell
M687 155mm shell
MC-1 bomb
Mk 94 bomb
Mk 95 bomb
Weteye bomb
>They could very well do something with the ZNPP.
they are using it as a ammo dump and according to the leaks from local ukranian workers there they have rigged up the reactors with explosives "just in case"
This post requires sauce.
A lot of fricking sauce.
tbh I think "blowing up a dam" which is a massive geneva convention violation should be answered with "stationing tactical nukes".
Say what you will but Russia would be completely fricked if they didn't. They would have been encircled from 2 points. Blowing up the dam stopped the entire middle/south end from being pincered so no matter what NATO does in response it would be better than how fricked they would have been if they didn't.
The thing is people act like they knew for sure 100% that Ukraine would attack across the river en masse, when there really wasn't any indication that they would. Russia stopped a hypothetical flanking attack in return for fricking over Crimea's long term stability and further tanking their international standing.
russia (or rather, the mafia in charge of it) doesn't care about crimea or its international standing or *anything* except survival and staying in power. putin would happily shovel a thousand russian babies into the arms of moloch every morning if it means he gets to live for one more day.
Mark my words they'll blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP. Scorched earth every step backward. "If we can't have it, then it must be destroyed".
russiam delenda est
Two counterpoints. Crimea was doing just fine without water from the Crimea canal before the war, despite its population increasing by 20% since 2014. The way they did it was by stopping agriculture and getting food freighted in from Russia.
Second, the dam destruction wasn't intentional. What happened was Russia:
>Used men who didn't understand the nuances of the dam to maintain it
>Would only open the sluice gates on their side because they were worried Ukraine would shoot them if they moved the sluice gate crane to the north side
>This caused the water level top over because the dam couldn't drain enough water fast enough
>It also caused sediment build up and scouring to occur in a focused area
>The combination of water top over and scouring resulted in the dam failing on the south side (russia's side)
So it was Russia's fault, but through negligence, not intention.
I see the latest Russian bullshit story is here.
Counterpoint : You're a dirty lying Black person. So a Russian, basically.
Why do you think I'm lying? It's the actual truth.
It's literally not
It is. Your twitter screenshot is BS, too. No seismic activity was detected. Here's a video explaining everything with sat photos and input from actual engineers.
There's literally a picture of the seismograph showing an explosion at that point.
No there isn't.
I watched the video. He only said he couldn't gain access to other seismographs data and speculated about a double spike.
Russia blew the damn and even McBride can be wrong occasionally. He even admits he can be wrong and makes videos when he is.
Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
It's completely in form for Russia to do pointless mindlessly evil shit. Like shelling people trying to rescue the victims of the flood they caused.
>Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
Come on, that would be super easy to fake.
Gotta love how shills are trying to grasp one doubtful bit of that paragraph and ignoring the rest of the reply and the entire thread calling them out on their bs.
God I wish NATO actually grew some balls and escalated the frick out of this shit. Shaming of US and European imperialism and colonialism is a direct malicious effort of leftards and rightoid nutjobs to deny western world its superiority in the world. The time has come, the scramble for russia and china must commence, the age of humane colonialism will set things right.
>Russians even boasted about blowing the dam before realising what they'd done. SBU just released an audio phonecall of a Russian soldiers claiming Russian saboteurs blew the dam.
About as legit as the John and Mike from Ohio Oblast American volunteers having their phone call leaked by the Russian Armed Forces as proof that American mercenaries are losing in Ukraine
Gotta watch that first morning krokodil rush. It's a doozy.
Doubt it. Explosions happen all the time at the front line and there's no evidence suggesting the dam was blown up.
Seismic activity has been detected and reported at exactly the same moment & location in over a dozen countries. It will all be presented at the war crime tribunals.
(You) might want to start listening to international news, it's being widely reported with the actual seismic evidence on display. It's literally impossible to detonate an explosion of that magnitude without it being detected in Spain, Italy, Sweden, Poland, Romania, Greece, Japan and every other country in Europe and Asia. It rang the entire continental shield like a bell, with hundreds of seismic stations set up to detect even the slightest earthquakes. Explosions have a distinct signature that cannot be mistaken for an earthquake, and this explosion wasn't just triangulated, it literally has several dozen stations that all pinpoint it exactly in the center of the dam.
But, I get it. (You) are too stupid to understand how basic math and science works, so whatever fantasy you have running in your head doesn't sound moronic to (You). But, to everyone else in the Reality-based world, (You) sound like a five-year old with massive fetal alcohol syndrome combined with intense lead poisoning disabilities.
>Anon posts verifiable evidence
>Waaahhh but muh nebulous seismic graphs that aren't real
Try to approach the subject with a level head. Russia is responsible, most likely. But to think they did something tactically advantageous to themselves on purpose would be pushing it.
>vatBlack person posts bullshit
> tries to pretend it's "evidence"
random youtoob channel of some bought and paid for moron is not "evidence"
That guy is more of a fact checker than anything else. He actually got input from that dude who runs Practical Engineering, aka the "why dams collapse" channel. Also his citations on this video are pretty credible.
And again, all McBride said about the seismics is he doesn't have access to them. He's working on the evidence he has, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's like concluding someone wasn't murdered because you haven't seen the murder weapon, despite the body being riddled with bullets and the murderer confessing he did it.
McBride is legit, but he does occasionally make mistakes. When he does he posts a whole video about it and admits that he was mistaken. I fully expect he'll do that on this occasion. something, I'll note, that the paid prostitutes of of vatniks never do.
>Is confronted with undeniable, ahrd evidence that he's lying.
>"I'm not lying!"
Literally have a nice day, subhuman trash.
>the latest Russian bullshit story
>still put the blame on Russia for 1) invading in the first place and 2) being total morons
Lol
This is how Russian lies often go, though
>BEGIN: Russia did nothing wrong, never even heard of dam collapse, what dam?
>REVERSAL: Russia doesn't understand how dam could have broken! Dirty Ukrainian tricks! Perfidity! NATO black magic! It could have been anyone but us!
>MINIMIZE: If Russia was in any partially responsible for the dam collapse, no part of it was an intentional! Total understandable accident, we assure!
>MUDDY: Well, who can say what the answer really is, where the truth lies? I've heard so many different stories that could explain this, from EVIL UKRAINE DOING IT, to EVIL NATO DOING IT, to maybe possibly coincidentally Russia being involved somehow haha idk. Clearly the jury's out still, so we shouldn't hastily jump to conclusions about who blew up the dam!
>Dam coincidentally breaks on the day of Ukie offensive
Do vatniks really expect us to believe this bullshit. Stick to "ukraine/hato did it!" because that makes way more sense than "fricking no one did it, it magically burst the day Ukies were making a push".
It's what actually happened, though.
>Crimea was doing just fine without water from the Crimea canal before the war, despite its population increasing by 20% since 2014. The way they did it was by stopping agriculture and getting food freighted in from Russia.
Right, so Crimea was basically just a massive resource drain, then.
You're a lying frickhole. Piss off.
>Crimea was doing just fine
You mean besides being a gigantic money black hole for Russia and its agricultural sector collapsing?
>seismic activity detected equal to tons of TNT going off
>dam destroyed in three separate parts
>right after russia closed the dam and increased water levels
>coincides with the counteroffensive
>dam blows up at 2:30am when no ones paying attention
>dam is nuclear war proofed
yeah that's definitely an accident right there
This seemed to me like a dam good breakdown. https://youtu.be/6z4rhBKTT5U
You know the water levels in Dniepr will stabilize in a few weeks right?
You know that with the dam busted, there's no way to fill up the reservoir that feeds the Crimean Canal, right?
I mean, that sounds EXACTLY like what Russia would do down to the typical disregard to long term consequences.
>Blowing up the dam stopped the entire middle/south end from being pincered
Ukraine is huge. They'd have to strike across a river and advance like 200 miles to "pincer" the troops holding the Zaporozhia front.
And they'd have to jsut strike across the river to bind large numbers of russian troops in place and prevent them from being used to shore up any endangered areas farther east.
Never denied that. Securing one sector of the front frees up reserves for others. Just saying the notion of "pincers" here is mostly thrown around by people drawing arrows on maps without any notion of scale.
>Ukraine is huge.
See screencap. Something is triggering the auto-filter & I can't figure out what.
The 1914 borders, prior to the Soviet Union invasion and occupation of Ukraine during World War I.
I don't think it was part of the plan. Bet they wanted a tiny explosion, then blame it on Ukies for another "muh hohol terrorist" pidor talks. But rusBlack folk, being rusBlack folk, fricked that up and now we have a huge eco catastrophe and potentially Chornobyl 2.0 incoming.
>captcha related
nope as
hints that reaction is yet to come
Those pigs have water to drink, but without food they're gonna be screwed soon.
the hypothermia will get them sooner with the cold water and cold nights if they are not helped out by boats
>Russia probably shouldn't have escalated by blowing that fricking dam
lol wtf is this board, what happened to /k/
A lot of NATO glowies and Ukrainian homosexuals trying to see if they can win a war only with online propaganda, it seems.
Da, /K/ has always being on the side of Russia against the globohomos and trannies. I can't believe how much glowies changed this place since I came here in may.
Hahahahha you type like a dumb esl Black person
honestly i HOPE russians escalate further only so we can fricking eradicate the entirety what is "russian". Culture, History, Children. If its russian it needs to be burned. And not only in ukraine or russia but all over the world :^)
Im a moderate btw.
> israeli hands typed this shit
here's to hoping those russian sodomite mongols nuke kiev, to put the US tax payer out of his misery.
its written Kyiv, you subhumans can rename it after you conquered it.
This isn't the first time senators have asked Biden to send ATACMS
good, they should have had them months ago.
>ATACMS are going to be sent to Ukraine looks like.
Oh hey I worked on those.
They any good?
No clue. But I can say a single point of failure won't cause a catastrophic or critical failure.
B-b-b-b-but I thought the total failure of the ukrainian offensive (which apparrently consisted of ~half a battalions' worth of vees getting damaged and subsequently recovered) was supposed to shatter the will of the decadent western power and make them cease any further support for the vile ukronazis! Shills on /k/ and russian media cope articles told me so. What happened?!
Russians will learn how to shoot it down just like HIMARS and storm shadow
wunderwaffen cannot win an attrition war
The fact that you think HIMARS and storm shadow are wunderwaffen betrays how little you actually know about them.
How much is the missile used to shoot down GMLRS and what’s the yearly production of those?
>shoot it down just like HIMARS
Beautiful, can't wait for futile bot campaign of smug rus trash.
> Xaxaxaxa we left zapo out of good will. Ukr kills childroon
Fuk, this whole country has to kneel like a b***h when this is over. They are shitting up information space like crazy. Since Abt 2007 they are paying the worst of the worst politicians across Europe. Just fking washing machine stealing cancer.
Explain what's the difference between regular HIMARS missiles and ATACMS?
80km range vs 300km range, much larger warhead, much lower number that can be carried per truck
Also, I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as himars, is in fact, gmlrs, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, gmlrs + himars. himars is not a missile unto itself, but rather a missile system made to use a few different missiles, mlrs, gmlrs, and ATACMS being a few of them. Through a peculiar turn of events, glmrs which is widely used today is often called “himars” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically just one part of the himars system, developed by the himars Project. There really is a himars, and these people are using it, but it is the system they use. Gmlrs is one of the missiles : the thing that gets launched from the himars system with 80km range and a small warhead . Gmlrs is an essential part of a himars system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete himars system . Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux
>average Linux user
>Explain what's the difference between regular HIMARS missiles and ATACMS?
russia will be able to shoot down ATACMS much more easily. which they have already been doing to GMLRs
So why are Russian ammo dumps and orc pits still blowing up on the regular?
storm shadow and incomplete coverage of the line
Smoking incidents.
Imagine PrSMs
It won't go through. The US doesn't have enough ATACMS for itself yet. The war reserve isn't finished.
The US has all the ATACMS they need and PrSM is actively being stockpiled to replace them
>bipartisan
Uhm? /misc/tards? I thought Biden was tyranically forcing ukrop support through? does this mean the conservatives also want dead Russians?
Why aren't chinkoids doing anything for dear comrade? WW3 is boring
>Why aren't chinkoids doing anything for dear comrade?
Because they're our b***h. If China helped their vassal, they wouldn't have economy anymore.
China aren't really proper Russian allies in that they're agreed to help each other. They instead just are planning on buying up Russian resources post-war.
Or flat out annexing Siberia lol. Sorry, I mean "staging a special operation to protect people of Chinese descent from cultural oppression."
They won't do something that blatant and stupid (at least I think). Instead they'll defacto own it via investments and Russians having so much debt. They NEED someone to pour billions into them and to have expertise to get resouces and China is the right one.
Reminder that Japan argued internally about strike north versus strike south. Strike North faction was about Siberian resources, and the strong military response by the USSR taught them that wasn't possible. China may end up achieving the Japanese imperial dream without firing a single god damn shot.
>defacto own it via investments and Russians having so much debt.
they have been trying to do that for decades. Through rewarding colonizers as well as trying to bribe their way in. Results are that in a dictatorship laws mean shit and they can make up whatever they want. For example changs want to drain Lake Baikal as it is one of the world top largest fresh water reserves and changs have polluted their own beyond heavy pollution.
So they buy themselves in and try to build a single pipeline going from the lake to changstan. Local serfs get unruly as they know this would be the first of many, oblast complains, moscow vetos the deal. Only way they will get their claws deep into the siberian pocket is directly owning it and pushing out the ziggers. Which honestly is doable even for incomptent boobs like them. Pic related
>Reminder that Japan argued internally about strike north versus strike south. Strike North faction was about Siberian resources, and the strong military response by the USSR taught them that wasn't possible. China may end up achieving the Japanese imperial dream without firing a single god damn shot.
Did they not consider Strike North while Operation Barbarossa was going on?
By that time they were well and truly bogged down in China. Check the dates, dipshit.
>Did they not consider Strike North while Operation Barbarossa was going on?
This is one of the BIG historical "what ifs". There was no coordination between Japan and Germany. The Strike North faction favored by the army but they lost a major border scuffle. The Strike South faction favored by the Navy wanted to take over SEA to get oil and resources from Euro colonies. Hense Pearl Harbor.
The historical what if is that Japan attacks Siberia while Germany attacks from the West. The USSR has to now fight a two-front war with collapsing lines in the west.
They didn't have jack shit then. IJA was bogged down in China, and japanese overland logistics were so bad, they would have never gotten anywhere relevant other than Vladivostok. That's not a second front, that's a minor distraction.
I still can't believe that there are missiles called attack 'ems
Attack'em!
Ukraine is losing
Is that what you tell yourself before go to sleep?
Yes, Ukraine is losing the odd vehicle here and there while slaughtering ziggers by the thousands and winning the war.
counter offensive going according to play
Welp, guess those rusian ammo dumps will have to be relocated further back a bit more. Also, Kerch bridge likely to have an exciting future.
You all deserve to burn in the nuclear fire you are provoking. Fricking sodomite satanic homosexuals.
>You all deserve to burn in the nuclear fire you are provoking.
>OOOOK OOOOOK WEZ GONNA NOOOOOOOOOOK
have your handlers get you new material no one even thinks your nukes work anymore
>Fricking sodomite satanic homosexuals.
always projection with vatniks and their /misc/nig chimps
Shit bait homosexual
Hahahaha oh my god that's bad for Russians
Only if it happens soon enough and in sufficient numbers. If this is something that trickles in this Fall or some shit then it's not going to be very helpful. Honestly they needed it like a month ago so they could have been using it to further soften things up, hitting command centers and depots and infra farther back and just in general further stretching logistics.
SO what's the major advantage of these missiles over storm shadows? is it just the fact they can be launched without aviation?
>read the thread gay
no lmao
pic kinda sorta related
They're basically SRBMs that can be launched from the HIMARS platform.
>SRBM
Yeah but storm shadows/scalps have a pretty similar range, right? so it's just the aviation thing thats the X factor here?
ah-ah-ah!
do your own research, if you're English speaking it's easy enough to find.
I'm not going to spoonfeed you a bunch of information that is readily available though, especially in the current context and the number of obvious shill threads (and therefore shill posters) in the catalog right now
It's more that Storm Shadow is a more recent development than ATACMS, so it's more sophisticated. That's probably why the US doesn't have many compunctions of sending it over now.
So the significance of ATACMS now is that it just further expands Ukraine's long range precision fire capability and increases the threat potential of their HIMARS systems, which will take pressure off of their air force.
There's no "major advantage" per se they're just totally different weapon systems. Launching from all their existing HIMARS vehicles they're familiar with and have a solid number of and don't require any air is definitely helpful. They're also ballistic rocket missiles not cruise missiles, they go at Mach 3 with a flight ceiling of 160000' while Storm Shadow is subsonic and flies low (and has to, it has an air breathing turbojet engine). Of course, by the same token SS has significantly longer range and more payload (air breathing jet is far, far more efficient then a rocket).
They're just different, both are useful, and at least as importantly is the sheer raw numbers factor. The US has a solid number of ATACMS, total number built is approaching 4000, and even counting stuff used up in wars there are decent reserves. If Ukraine had thousands of Storm Shadows to play with it'd make less of a difference, but even a hundred-someodd ATACMS is purely additive to what they've got and would be of value to them.
Though as I said, less value now then a few weeks ago even. The Biden admin has been too cautious on that front.
Another thing that's part of the "raw numbers factor" as well is simply that ATACMS is like 1/3 the unit cost of Storm Shadow. Cheaper and more economic is very important in this war, in any war really, you ideally want a whole range of stuff so you're only using your fanciest most expensive stuff against the highest value most challenging targets, and can use larger numbers of cheaper stuff for closer targets, and even larger numbers of even cheaper for closer/easier than that etc. Anything ATACMS could take care of instead of SS would be better to use the former for, leaving SS exclusively for more distant things needing a bigger boom.
thank you for the effortposts, i learned some stuff today
lmao frick you
This is why I like /k/. Might not be all accurate (or maybe it is), but there's more than enough information to do searches and verify & learn more. Thank you.
I’ve been trying to explain for a year that just based on the stuff they ask for that Ukraine doesn’t know how to win. The keep asking for mass amounts of heavy arty and stand-off weapons, which they squander on sniping rear targets. Meanwhile Russia uses their guns for actual fire support for the frontline leading to their constantly winning. Anyone who thinks Ukraine can win in their current state is delusional.
this. i have no idea why ukraine isnt demanding at least 500 more m777 or their equivalent, and they also need an analog to the orlan-10 as well
that is what will actually win them the war. stand off stuff is nice. but meaningless if you cant actually concentrate your force and break your enemy
Worthless morons
>ATACMS are going to be sent to Ukraine looks like.
Yup. It was only a matter of time considering the constant NATO creeping escalation. The original American neocon plan was to equip the ukies with nuclear weapons, ostensibly created by them, but with the actual fissile material and design provided by USA, then having the ukies fight a short nuclear war with Russia, mutually annihilating both sides, with USA then carpetbagging the ruins. Putin attacked before the ukies managed to build their missile and nuke arsenal, so plan B is now to grind down Russia using Ukraine as a millstone. But that doesnt work unless the ukies are provided with copious amounts of modern weapons and ammunition, so plan B is really costly compared to plan A.
Meds, then /misc/
Cheers
Based schizo. Do you think aliens are getting involved too?
>Based schizo. Do you think aliens are getting involved too?
The mysterious people going around zapping US state department suits, cia spooks and pentagon middle managers do indeed work for interstellar strongman Ashtar Sheran. Plebs call this "havana syndrome".
Will this make a big difference since they already have StormShadows?
All I know about ATACMS is from Red Dragon where you lose all your stuff from across the map.
Storm shadows need planes as launch platforms, ATACMS uses the HIMARS trucks already deployed and widely used by Ukraine. Same truck, different cargo. It's a very "easy" upgrade.
Storm shadow has a deep penetration warhead with twice the weight of ATACMS' unitary warhead (there are other less comparable versions). ATACMS has a 9m CEP and big blast/frag effect. designed for normal battlefield threats. Storm Shadow is pinpoint accurate and mainly designed to take out high value targets like bunkers and other structures.
They have different use cases. You'd drop a ATACMS on an artillery or SAM position, you wouldn't waste an storm shadow on that.
>SS surpasses ATACMS by capabilities.
>Ukies already have SS
Looks like providing ATACMS can't be considered as escalation at this point.
>UK provides top tier shit to shame the rest of the western powers into following suit in larger volume
The eternal bong can't keep getting away with this
soon we flood them
That's not what i said.
You can radio the rear and have a ATACMS on a position in a few minutes. Or use it for counter battery fire.
Storm Shadow while more lethal on a target requires much higher level planning for it's missions - it needs programmed before launch and a mission put together with attacking aircraft.
One is a strategic weapon one is a tactical weapon. Just because you have a B52 doesn't mean you don't need an A10.
Storm Shadow for concealed targets, like bunkers or building.
ATACMS is for covering open areas.
More or less
>next HATO wunderwaffen that isn't going to make a difference is going to be sent to ukrop
oh no
whatever shall we do
Die like the rest of mobiks and churkas when your barracks are bombed out by MLRS?
>things that never happened
cope
you can throw as many "wunderwaffe" as you want at holol country and the result will not change
you lost from the start
Have you seen the video? Maybe the goal is not winning per se, maybe it's all the dead russians we made along the way?
>have you not watched my deepfake and AI generated disinformation?
go away glowie
Yeah put your head in the sand, don't worry about your dead and maimed countrymen, family members, yourself...
>nooooooooo! why won't you heckin buy into my propaganda!
cry more glowie
>go away glowie
What do you feel when your countrymen pointlessly die for a hyper corrupt oligarch that will be ruling Russia until 2036? National pride?
how much do they pay you glowie?
what is your shift pattern like?
I get paid with vids of the dead russians and the vids keep on coming
you're being paid too much glowie for how bad of a job you're doing
you should lurk more and learn to fit in better
>you're being paid too much glowie for how bad of a job you're doing
too much? do you really think videos of dead russians are hard to come by?
you've already been made, glowie
you're falling into a sunk cost fallacy right now
find someone stupid enough to believe you
This is not work anymore, I'm just enjoying myself, imagining you too scared to open the video with your dead countrymen, and coming up shit like "AI", "Deepfake", "paid actors in hollywood", etc. Loving it.
glowie I know you're desperate for the last word because you seem to think everyone will believe you if you get it
they won't though
I will generously allow you to gobble my piss and have it though, glowie
thank me later
You're living in a world of delusions, thinking everyone disagreeing with you is a glowie, and all videos with dead russians are AI HATO propaganda. The reality is more complex. I don't really care about anyone believing in anything, I'm just fascinated by you and I just want an honest answer to my question. What do you feel when you see your more and more of your dead countrymen?
Anger? Do you just try not to think about it?
Every poster here is a glowbot.
You are the only organic pidorashka warrior.
Your special task is to defeat our horde.
this but unironically
GO AHEAD CRUSH US TANKIE!
this looks so cool, a fricking xenomorph-f-14-f-15-challenger-2 hybrid. Turns a profit too.
US fricking A right!
Bomb serbia again and again and again and again
Says the guy who stands out like a sore thumb.
>whatever shall we do
>Die like the rest of mobiks and churkas when your barracks are bombed out by MLRS?
check the video, these were your countrymen, blown to smithereens by himars or jdams, how does that make you feel?
>surely Wunderwaffe Nummer 72 is going to smash ze Untermenschen mein Führer
кoпe
No ATACMS for Ukraine. It sets the wrong precedent. The next time USA wants to do something like Vietnam, Iraq, or Korea, other countries like China or India have a precedent to arm the target nation with medium range strategic level weapons.
"You did it for Ukraine, why are you complaining now?"
Ahem
>Vietnam, Korea
That was decades ago.
>Iraq
UN sanctioned it.
>"You did it for Ukraine, why are you complaining now?"
That's different.
Its different? That depends on your perspective.
All that matters is that pandora's box has been opened and supplying mid range strategic weapons to a proxy war is not an insane escalation anymore.
>Its different? That depends on your perspective.
That's right, I even wrote why.
The US didn't claim Iraq as their soil, meanwhile we have russia trying to wage a war of aggression and grab land, which have never occurred since WW2.
But anyway I don't think there is going to be russia in long term, so doesn't matter.
HIMARS already happened. Stormshadow already happened. Patriot happened. F-16s and abrams happened. I think we are past the "whataboutism" stage of hesitancy.
Its not whataboutism, it simply isnt in the US' interests
Why? People already talking about it.
>isnt in the US' interests
lmao. My guy, right now anything that can destroy russians in aid of forcing a withdrawal back to pre-2014 borders and bringing an end to this dumb as frick war is absolutely in US interests.The sooner it ends, the sooner world markets will stabilise and the normal pax americana gravy train can pick up speed again.
I mean frick, the limp dicked ness of the Russian response to all this so far almost makes me wonder how painlessly a NATO led no fly zone would bring an end to it.
Yes, but this can be achieved in other ways, without compromising long term interests.
>without compromising long term interests
What long term interests?
What long term interests are compromised by providing ATACMS?
If anything it's an excuse to field test them and order 10000 more units and make sure the Marines have endless supplies of the things to chuck at those ridiculous chinese islands.
The only parties that doesn't benefit from supplying Ukraine with ATACMS are Russia and China, the opinions of both should be ignored.
>other ways
So you're pro NATO implementing a No Fly Zone over Ukraine? Got it.
>Defeating enemies without even putin boots on the ground is against US interests
Tell me more.
ok:
USSR had supplied Vietnam with arms and training. US did similar things with Afghanistan.
Neither party sent cruise missiles or other strategic weapons to these proxy conflicts.
>But defeating the enemy without putting boots on the ground is definitely in our interest!
True! The ability to fight future proxy wars against primitives that are not equipped with strategic level weapons also is in your interest! Same for your enemies.
Thats why you are very restrictive with what hardware your sponsors get. Soviets did the same.
You don't get it. The US didn't provide Afghanis with ATACMS because they could've won without it. The same for soviets in Vietnam.
Now puccia stationed 200k+ military personal and a lot of armor power, this is why Ukraine will receive ATACMS to burn the vermin.
*eye roll*
I have doubts cruise missiles existed before 1975.
You imply that precedent is the the decisive factor for making a decision about sending the war aid. I think the choice to not defeat your enemy (or defeat it less efficiently) depends on capabilities rather then "gentleman agreements", especially after 2022. And if Russia is allowed to use cruise missiles in this proxy war, why Ukraine isn't?
>Its not whataboutism,
Sure it is. You're saying China will use whataboutism to justify giving ballistic missiles to North Korea in the event of a conflict on the korean peninsula. America doesn't care about that because they have escalation dominance in terms of what they can bring in to counter such military aid.
I guess I said it wrong then. The idea is very simple: Despite seeming anarchy global diplomacy does follow unwritten rules. If a South African politician says that Chile is a nasty place, then Chile won't respond by restricting trade, this is not viewed as an appropriate response.
If you send ATACMS, then missiles of this kind will enter the toolbox of things you can do in proxy wars. Thats not whataboutism, but a change in the reality of diplomacy. This change is not in US interests.
If anyone willing and capable of waging a proxy war against the US had weapons equivalent to the ATACMS they would've already sent those weapons for the Russians to use
They got the Iranian drones.
Are you russian or something? You're pushing this narrative like russians do with all their agenda, just senseless repeating all over.
well you didn't understand, so I explained it again. The motivation for repeating the point is also mentioned explicitly in the post
I understand what you're saying, and I think you're wrong. Especially since the US is running discussions either to supply Ukraine with ATACMS.
The Soviets were happy to give SCUDS to Iraq, Libya and Egypt in the 60s/70s. Your argument really doesn't hold water.
Chinese sent literal "volunteers" to Korea, Soviets sent planes and flew them themselves, same in Vietnam. China and Russia will send everything they got if they feel the benefits outweigh the costs, not if US did something 20 years ago or not.
>China or India
>not the next victim of the eagles team
>interested to help the victim more than solving internal problems
>have enough capabilities to deliver the gibs to the victim