The A-10 wasn't slow enough to be hit by russian shartpads, so they got a literal cropduster for the russians to try their worthless soviet shartpad on
Because there are no factories that make IL2 parts anymore (same goes for anybody else about to suggest any other WW2 era design). This literal converted crop duster already has at least one factory cranking out the airframes and parts for maintenance.
Why use a piston-prop frame when all high power prop are powered by turbines these days?
The Il2 also had a shitty airfoil by today's standards.
Shitty visibility for the Il-2
No modern electronics in the Il-2, Air Tractor already been provisioned.
The real question should have been: Why no Bronco or Dragonfly?
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/08/01/us-special-operations-command-chooses-l3harris-sky-warden-for-armed-overwatch-effort/ >Air Force Special Operations Command’s Armed Overwatch program aims to build a fleet of up to 75 flexible, fixed-wing aircraft suitable for deployment to austere locations, with little logistical tail needed to keep them operating.
A lot already have been. Remember this thing is literally a converted crop duster. The original crop-dusting model has been around since the 90s. And there's been additional models (like a forest-firefighting one) since then, too.
>cant afford to maintain and operate nice fighters anymore >As 100s of f35s and f-15EXs roll off the production line >As the b21 is months from introduction >As NGAD gets closer
Lmao
look at it this way, with the advent of drones, all the psycho killer cocain crazy electronic warfare shit that top secret planes could do, has been minituarized into a pod that can be mounted to anything. so have all the cool missiles and shit.
they were thinking to themselves, why don't we just mount this shit on normal airplanes? it's not like these bootlickers can shoot back!
and just like that they attacked their own citizens.
>americans finally realise you don't need an eight gorillion fighter jet or a three million chimpanzillion drone to kill sub-middle-east-sahafrican terrorists
what the frick?
are you guys running out of budget or something?
Yeah, something tells me you don't understand unit cost and buying in bulk
America gets the costco rate on F-35s because we're buying 2500 of them. If you buy 75 of a bunch of cropdusters with hardpoints and EWAR/targeting hardware, the cost skyrockets.
Yeah, something tells me you don't understand unit cost and buying in bulk
America gets the costco rate on F-35s because we're buying 2500 of them. If you buy 75 of a bunch of cropdusters with hardpoints and EWAR/targeting hardware, the cost skyrockets.
They're probably bundling in the entire cost of maintenance with them, too. This could very well be how much the plane will cost over its entire service life.
not against the idea (i'm a homosexual so i don't know more than SF) but why did they choose the ugliest cropduster on the market. i know it's the ugliest since it's the only one i've seen
Well, that#s the same cannon that's used in the cobra heli, rights. I still have to see a single video that shows how this cannon has hit enything ever.
there is video of that plane in action on youtube, at night. It strafes the whole length of the deck of a large river boat with that cannon and it is really precise. The chance of survival for anybody on that boat would have been very low.
This thing probably >is quiet >has short runway reqs >good loiter time >slow might be good for surveillance and spec op support >Has decent pgms
This thing is perfect for supporting ops in South America, Africa, where it might be a pain to support a ac-130 logistically but still give SF an eye in the sky with some teeth. It can probably fly above man pads as well. Also being a crop duster, I’m sure it can easily carry defloriants and herbicides for counter drug and other operations. Might also be able to serve as a fire fighting aircraft in a pinch
>Might also be able to serve as a fire fighting aircraft in a pinch
Not a pinch at all, my dude: It was purpose-built to be a firefighter after it proved itself as a crop duster. The company that builds it made a model specifically for that purpose.
>Why?
Politics, the A-29 won every facet of the competition and SOCOM wanted to due to partner nations using it. Two Republicans started stonewalling the program in favor of the AT-6E because "it would bring jobs" to their districts. Sierra-Nevada, after winning the competition twice, decided to drop out seeing the politics around the situation. And SOCOM decided to spite the two GOP guys by going with an aircraft that nobody stood to benefit from.
We honestly don't know at this point. The A-29 was considered the winner after the first competition but Textron shit a brick over the clerical error that they made. I think the mailed their requirements or permits to the wrong address.
>Textron shit a brick over the clerical error that they made. I think the mailed their requirements or permits to the wrong address.
JESUS CHRIST I REFUSE TO BELIEVE SUCH A MONUMENTAL FRICK UP IS POSSIBLE IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2000+
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance
The A-29 won back in 2011 >In November 2011 it was revealed that the Beechcraft AT-6B had been excluded from the competition by the USAF, leaving the Embraer A-29 the probable winner, with a contract expected to be awarded in December 2011.[13] According to GAO: “the Air Force concluded that HBDC [Hawker Beechcraft Defense Company] had not adequately corrected deficiencies in its proposal. In this regard, the agency concluded that multiple deficiencies and significant weaknesses found in HBDC’s proposal make it technically unacceptable and results in unacceptable mission capability risk”. Hawker Beechcraft's protest against its exclusion was dismissed.[14] >On December 30, 2011, the USAF announced that the A-29 had been awarded the contract.[15] But the contract award was disputed and a stop-work was issued the following January.[16] All motions will be due to U.S. Court of Federal Claim by March 6, 2012.[17] >The A-29 was reawarded the contract on February 27, 2013.[20][21] And Beechcraft again challenged the contract.[22] But the USAF ordered that the construction start anyway.[23] Beechcraft's allies in the Kansas Republican congressional delegation then called for the work to be stopped,[24] while Embraer's Floridan congressional allies praised the USAF's move.[25] The USAF has instructed for work to continue unless a federal court orders otherwise.[26] The United States Court of Federal Claims upheld the USAF's decision to proceed with the contract work.[27]
That actually explains it. A shame tho, the A-29 was already integrated with the AIM-9, several different brands of GPS and Laser Guided bombs and could fire the AGM-65 Maverick as well.
[...]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance
The A-29 won back in 2011 >In November 2011 it was revealed that the Beechcraft AT-6B had been excluded from the competition by the USAF, leaving the Embraer A-29 the probable winner, with a contract expected to be awarded in December 2011.[13] According to GAO: “the Air Force concluded that HBDC [Hawker Beechcraft Defense Company] had not adequately corrected deficiencies in its proposal. In this regard, the agency concluded that multiple deficiencies and significant weaknesses found in HBDC’s proposal make it technically unacceptable and results in unacceptable mission capability risk”. Hawker Beechcraft's protest against its exclusion was dismissed.[14] >On December 30, 2011, the USAF announced that the A-29 had been awarded the contract.[15] But the contract award was disputed and a stop-work was issued the following January.[16] All motions will be due to U.S. Court of Federal Claim by March 6, 2012.[17] >The A-29 was reawarded the contract on February 27, 2013.[20][21] And Beechcraft again challenged the contract.[22] But the USAF ordered that the construction start anyway.[23] Beechcraft's allies in the Kansas Republican congressional delegation then called for the work to be stopped,[24] while Embraer's Floridan congressional allies praised the USAF's move.[25] The USAF has instructed for work to continue unless a federal court orders otherwise.[26] The United States Court of Federal Claims upheld the USAF's decision to proceed with the contract work.[27]
# >load them up with SLAP to turn it into a bargain basement A-10
I can't wait to see some rusted out shitbucket BTR or technical with bottomed out suspension get turned inside out by this moronic fricking thing.
Yes, I am thoroughly aware it is far safer and more effective to throw a hellfire or a guided hydra at it. The USAF pilots knew that when they went guns on the convoy out of Kuwait after they shot their Mavericks and GBUs. We strafe because it is fun.
I'm talking thermal-riding, canvas wearing, silent-gliding, sup-$2,000, borderline Amish contraption of terror with one stubborn but cautious pilot. How cheap can we go with air power?
>How cheap can we go with air power?
As an aspiring pilot currently learning to fly: Dude, you are *SIMPLY NEVER* going to fly anything sub-$2000 except maybe one of those glorified parachutes with a box fan strapped to it. When you think of flying on the cheap, think more in terms of shopping for DECENT used cars. You're looking at five figures AT A MINIMUM.
Powered parachute combat pilot? That sounds hard core. Congrats on your career track by the way. My dad wanted to be a pilot, but life had other plans. Hard life he said, 10 year commitment to being a commercial airline pilot, low pay to start. I heard it got easier for college graduates, but he went to trade school. I hope all goes well for you, and my dad would be proud of you.
I wouldn't go that far but I've thought a lot about how cheap you can get. Best bet is to convert a civilian aircraft with a diesel piston engine to the light attack role. You could fit a gimbaled minigun and a few missiles or guided bombs within the weight limit. A small militia could keep it running since the munitions and fuel needed would be relatively light. Bet it would cost under $1 million.
Nice, I like it. How would a speed wing paragliding set up with an engine fare, or would the armor and weapons for the pilot exceed practical maneuverability?
Just two weeks ago I watched an AT-502 do some crop dusting in the neighbor's fields behind our pastures and I was thoroughly impressed with his speed and maneuverability. I never expected the air frame to handle some of the turns and rolls the pilot was going... also its climb rate was pretty impressive for "just a crop duster".
The AT-802U has twice the horsepower, at least a 90-12 knot speed advantage. I am also sure that i will have far better avionics, air-frame strength.
I think that it certainly has the capability to perform well, even in a light CAS as long as airspace is uncontested
its expensive to send 5th gen jets out to bomb brown people when you have uncontested airspace. this does most of the same job for a fraction of the cost
What’s the redpill on what happened to the AT-6? There seemed to be some kind of hate / bad blood between the USAF and the company but I don’t really get it.
Also was Archangel a part of the selection or not?
It's political bullshit like normal. Politicians trying to force the military to purchase from a company in their district even if there are better companies for the contract.
Can the AT-6 use tundra tires? Floats? Take off from a grass field? Can it spray chem trails on enemy combatants and give their future children the 'tism? No? I like the the AT-6 as much as the next guy but its not the plane for this mission if it can't do these things.
>uncontested and austere conditions
that's a funny way of saying they will be firing missiles at civilians. this is going to start civil wars. the pentagon is really 'winning the narrative war' with this move
look at it this way, with the advent of drones, all the psycho killer cocain crazy electronic warfare shit that top secret planes could do, has been minituarized into a pod that can be mounted to anything. so have all the cool missiles and shit.
they were thinking to themselves, why don't we just mount this shit on normal airplanes? it's not like these bootlickers can shoot back!
and just like that they attacked their own citizens.
It’s for Africa. US has troops (mainly specops?) there working with local governments in this arrangement where the US trains, transports etc local military, who also watch the battle and come in to bail the locals out if required. That’s what this armed overwatch program was all about: a cheap CAS plane that can operate in bare minimum infrastructure and maintenance.
I'd fly that against Eusea
Soul.
IL2bros, I kneel.
The Russian infantryman FEARS the converted cropduster
The A-10 wasn't slow enough to be hit by russian shartpads, so they got a literal cropduster for the russians to try their worthless soviet shartpad on
Why don’t they just copy the il2 and modernize it? It’s not like this knock-off is cheaper.
Because there are no factories that make IL2 parts anymore (same goes for anybody else about to suggest any other WW2 era design). This literal converted crop duster already has at least one factory cranking out the airframes and parts for maintenance.
The IL-2 flies like shit. I bet the crop duster has superior performance in every category
Doubt it flies like shit, it has huge amount of surface area
It's also heavy as shit with a comparatively weak engine
your mom has a huge amount of surface area
Why use a piston-prop frame when all high power prop are powered by turbines these days?
The Il2 also had a shitty airfoil by today's standards.
Shitty visibility for the Il-2
No modern electronics in the Il-2, Air Tractor already been provisioned.
The real question should have been: Why no Bronco or Dragonfly?
>why don't we use the aircraft with the worse combat attrition rate in history
It's a mystery.
They ordered 6 in FY22 budget and 9 in FY23
Where do you see they ordered 75? It must be FY24-26.
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2022/08/01/us-special-operations-command-chooses-l3harris-sky-warden-for-armed-overwatch-effort/
>Air Force Special Operations Command’s Armed Overwatch program aims to build a fleet of up to 75 flexible, fixed-wing aircraft suitable for deployment to austere locations, with little logistical tail needed to keep them operating.
> up to
so what they want, but don't have a budget to actually do that yet.
They've got the budget approved only for 15 so far.
Yes exactly, as the article states: They don't expect to get all 75 until later in the decade.
Then the OP is misleading.
75 of them haven't been "ordered". They WANT to order 75 of them and have only ordered 15 to date.
Spicy
Where to?
it's qt and i want one to raid the zone with
Why do I find this so cool?
I bet some pilots are really excited to fly this thing.
A lot already have been. Remember this thing is literally a converted crop duster. The original crop-dusting model has been around since the 90s. And there's been additional models (like a forest-firefighting one) since then, too.
I don't know but I really like it too. It's cute.
Sign of the times, America is slowly decaying
>osprey's grounded
>cant afford to maintain and operate nice fighters anymore
>procures crop duster
>cant afford to maintain and operate nice fighters anymore
>As 100s of f35s and f-15EXs roll off the production line
>As the b21 is months from introduction
>As NGAD gets closer
Lmao
>
>You bombed the wrong field.
what is it designed for? what are its capabilities? when is it useful hunting buffalos?
Frick you, nobody is your Google Search. You see the complete name of the god damn thing in the subject. Research it yourself.
Its designed to turn uppity turd worlders into strips of flesh.
look at it this way, with the advent of drones, all the psycho killer cocain crazy electronic warfare shit that top secret planes could do, has been minituarized into a pod that can be mounted to anything. so have all the cool missiles and shit.
they were thinking to themselves, why don't we just mount this shit on normal airplanes? it's not like these bootlickers can shoot back!
and just like that they attacked their own citizens.
>americans finally realise you don't need an eight gorillion fighter jet or a three million chimpanzillion drone to kill sub-middle-east-sahafrican terrorists
what the frick?
are you guys running out of budget or something?
>three million chimpanzillion
AT-802U is pretty expensive for what it is
>AT-802U is pretty expensive for what it is
Yeah you can say that again
> FY2022 defense budget included $170,000,000 for the purchase of six aircraft.
Comes out to around 1/3rd the cost of an F-35A
Obviously they don't serve the same role, but $28M+ per airframe is insane for this kind of shit when an F-35A is ~$78M.
Yeah, something tells me you don't understand unit cost and buying in bulk
America gets the costco rate on F-35s because we're buying 2500 of them. If you buy 75 of a bunch of cropdusters with hardpoints and EWAR/targeting hardware, the cost skyrockets.
Shitloads cheaper to fly and maintain though
yup and the A29 is $9-14 mil
They're probably bundling in the entire cost of maintenance with them, too. This could very well be how much the plane will cost over its entire service life.
I unironically dig it. Looks comfy af
Yo Stuka is back HATO confirmed Nazis
not against the idea (i'm a homosexual so i don't know more than SF) but why did they choose the ugliest cropduster on the market. i know it's the ugliest since it's the only one i've seen
I have to imagine it came down to either very specific performance parameters or price/manufacturing capability.
Or both.
>why did they choose the ugliest cropduster on the market
Once upon a time, the A-10 was considered the ugliest plane ever.
AT-802 vs Super Tucano, thats a fight I'd pay to watch.
Still inferior to the Bronco, especially the nogs model with the turret.
This whole plane is kino but the little ball turret takes it over the top
Well, that#s the same cannon that's used in the cobra heli, rights. I still have to see a single video that shows how this cannon has hit enything ever.
there is video of that plane in action on youtube, at night. It strafes the whole length of the deck of a large river boat with that cannon and it is really precise. The chance of survival for anybody on that boat would have been very low.
Is amerika bankrupt?
>Is amerika bankrupt?
Have you been paying attention to the news lately? Everybody is bankrupt.
Imagine doing some cool ass FAC shit with that sexy beast
This thing probably
>is quiet
>has short runway reqs
>good loiter time
>slow might be good for surveillance and spec op support
>Has decent pgms
This thing is perfect for supporting ops in South America, Africa, where it might be a pain to support a ac-130 logistically but still give SF an eye in the sky with some teeth. It can probably fly above man pads as well. Also being a crop duster, I’m sure it can easily carry defloriants and herbicides for counter drug and other operations. Might also be able to serve as a fire fighting aircraft in a pinch
>Might also be able to serve as a fire fighting aircraft in a pinch
Not a pinch at all, my dude: It was purpose-built to be a firefighter after it proved itself as a crop duster. The company that builds it made a model specifically for that purpose.
>This thing is perfect for supporting ops in South America, Africa
It's why SOCOM wanted the A-29, since those nations already use the A-29.
So why didn't they get the A-29?
This will become the Toyota Hilux of the sky, just watch.
A fricking crop duster over planes like the T-6 Texan II and the A-29 Super Tucano. Why?
Because the red-tape surrounding procurement is a complete fricking shit show.
>Why?
Politics, the A-29 won every facet of the competition and SOCOM wanted to due to partner nations using it. Two Republicans started stonewalling the program in favor of the AT-6E because "it would bring jobs" to their districts. Sierra-Nevada, after winning the competition twice, decided to drop out seeing the politics around the situation. And SOCOM decided to spite the two GOP guys by going with an aircraft that nobody stood to benefit from.
Jesus Christ...
I just hope the Air Tractor can still suitably fill the same role the Tucano was supposed to.
We honestly don't know at this point. The A-29 was considered the winner after the first competition but Textron shit a brick over the clerical error that they made. I think the mailed their requirements or permits to the wrong address.
>I think the mailed their requirements or permits to the wrong address.
lmao, holy shit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Attack/Armed_Reconnaissance
The A-29 won back in 2011
>In November 2011 it was revealed that the Beechcraft AT-6B had been excluded from the competition by the USAF, leaving the Embraer A-29 the probable winner, with a contract expected to be awarded in December 2011.[13] According to GAO: “the Air Force concluded that HBDC [Hawker Beechcraft Defense Company] had not adequately corrected deficiencies in its proposal. In this regard, the agency concluded that multiple deficiencies and significant weaknesses found in HBDC’s proposal make it technically unacceptable and results in unacceptable mission capability risk”. Hawker Beechcraft's protest against its exclusion was dismissed.[14]
>On December 30, 2011, the USAF announced that the A-29 had been awarded the contract.[15] But the contract award was disputed and a stop-work was issued the following January.[16] All motions will be due to U.S. Court of Federal Claim by March 6, 2012.[17]
>The A-29 was reawarded the contract on February 27, 2013.[20][21] And Beechcraft again challenged the contract.[22] But the USAF ordered that the construction start anyway.[23] Beechcraft's allies in the Kansas Republican congressional delegation then called for the work to be stopped,[24] while Embraer's Floridan congressional allies praised the USAF's move.[25] The USAF has instructed for work to continue unless a federal court orders otherwise.[26] The United States Court of Federal Claims upheld the USAF's decision to proceed with the contract work.[27]
Cute Bronco
>Textron shit a brick over the clerical error that they made. I think the mailed their requirements or permits to the wrong address.
JESUS CHRIST I REFUSE TO BELIEVE SUCH A MONUMENTAL FRICK UP IS POSSIBLE IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2000+
That actually explains it. A shame tho, the A-29 was already integrated with the AIM-9, several different brands of GPS and Laser Guided bombs and could fire the AGM-65 Maverick as well.
Sound like fake news. If SOCOM had the final say in the acquisition then the A-29 wouldn’t have dropped out.
see
The A-29 won twice
But can you mount a GAU on it?
yes, specifically the GAU-19/A
#
>load them up with SLAP to turn it into a bargain basement A-10
I can't wait to see some rusted out shitbucket BTR or technical with bottomed out suspension get turned inside out by this moronic fricking thing.
Yes, I am thoroughly aware it is far safer and more effective to throw a hellfire or a guided hydra at it. The USAF pilots knew that when they went guns on the convoy out of Kuwait after they shot their Mavericks and GBUs. We strafe because it is fun.
GAU sucks
No u
Ultralight combat aircraft when?
I thought we already had those?
I'm talking thermal-riding, canvas wearing, silent-gliding, sup-$2,000, borderline Amish contraption of terror with one stubborn but cautious pilot. How cheap can we go with air power?
>How cheap can we go with air power?
As an aspiring pilot currently learning to fly: Dude, you are *SIMPLY NEVER* going to fly anything sub-$2000 except maybe one of those glorified parachutes with a box fan strapped to it. When you think of flying on the cheap, think more in terms of shopping for DECENT used cars. You're looking at five figures AT A MINIMUM.
Powered parachute combat pilot? That sounds hard core. Congrats on your career track by the way. My dad wanted to be a pilot, but life had other plans. Hard life he said, 10 year commitment to being a commercial airline pilot, low pay to start. I heard it got easier for college graduates, but he went to trade school. I hope all goes well for you, and my dad would be proud of you.
>Ultralight air support
>Angry paramotor pilot with binoculars throwing grenades
Fund it!
>"It pays for itself!"
>"Give 'em a rifle, a grenade launcher, an LMG!"
>Shares in paragliding companies soar
I wouldn't go that far but I've thought a lot about how cheap you can get. Best bet is to convert a civilian aircraft with a diesel piston engine to the light attack role. You could fit a gimbaled minigun and a few missiles or guided bombs within the weight limit. A small militia could keep it running since the munitions and fuel needed would be relatively light. Bet it would cost under $1 million.
Nice, I like it. How would a speed wing paragliding set up with an engine fare, or would the armor and weapons for the pilot exceed practical maneuverability?
>here's your air support bro
Unironically seems like something China would do
A revisiting of war kites?
Perfect for using against Trumptards in the upcoming """civil war"""
bingo
>that stork leg landing gear
What did you expect bro? It's literally made by a company called Air Tractor.
kino logotype
Why don't we get Ukraine a bunch of biplanes and stuff for interior transport?
They're going to use these on far flung countries where there is an American contingent present but too far away for the public to care.
Thinking of low intensity warzones like Africa, southern Philippines, Latin America, etc.
I doubt these things will be used or donated to Ukraine.
Just two weeks ago I watched an AT-502 do some crop dusting in the neighbor's fields behind our pastures and I was thoroughly impressed with his speed and maneuverability. I never expected the air frame to handle some of the turns and rolls the pilot was going... also its climb rate was pretty impressive for "just a crop duster".
The AT-802U has twice the horsepower, at least a 90-12 knot speed advantage. I am also sure that i will have far better avionics, air-frame strength.
I think that it certainly has the capability to perform well, even in a light CAS as long as airspace is uncontested
I dont understand how can you have 5th gen jets and buy some WWII spitfire clone.
its expensive to send 5th gen jets out to bomb brown people when you have uncontested airspace. this does most of the same job for a fraction of the cost
I can picture somw WW2 tier dogfighting between these planes and militarized cropdusters.
COIN planes are badass, killing left wing militias is based.
Sky Warden is too cool of a name to use for this. It should be a codename for a black project instead.
What’s the redpill on what happened to the AT-6? There seemed to be some kind of hate / bad blood between the USAF and the company but I don’t really get it.
Also was Archangel a part of the selection or not?
>What’s the redpill on what happened to the AT-6?
It didn't meet the stated requirements.
It's political bullshit like normal. Politicians trying to force the military to purchase from a company in their district even if there are better companies for the contract.
It didn't meet requirements and Beechcraft chimped out
Can the AT-6 use tundra tires? Floats? Take off from a grass field? Can it spray chem trails on enemy combatants and give their future children the 'tism? No? I like the the AT-6 as much as the next guy but its not the plane for this mission if it can't do these things.
>uncontested and austere conditions
that's a funny way of saying they will be firing missiles at civilians. this is going to start civil wars. the pentagon is really 'winning the narrative war' with this move
>Austere
Pavepenny
>will be firing missiles at civilians. this is going to start civil wars.
t. moronic zoomer
It’s for Africa. US has troops (mainly specops?) there working with local governments in this arrangement where the US trains, transports etc local military, who also watch the battle and come in to bail the locals out if required. That’s what this armed overwatch program was all about: a cheap CAS plane that can operate in bare minimum infrastructure and maintenance.
should have just went with the super tucano