Armored vehicle discussion as it pertains to the upcoming counter offensive in Ukraine. Intolerance of specific armored vehicles should not be discussed.
Armored vehicle discussion as it pertains to the upcoming counter offensive in Ukraine.
Armored vehicle discussion as it pertains to the upcoming counter offensive in Ukraine. Intolerance of specific armored vehicles should not be discussed.
MBRAPpers get the rope. choosing to straddle the lines of a light utility vehicle and proper armor you have become nothing but a sick parody of both. the only reason you exist in ukraine is that stocks in the western world can't be drawn down fast enough.
They’re excellent counter insurgency vehicles and will work as conventional APCs in a pinch.
Both true statements, but I hate them and it's not a true apc if it has windows frick you.
This should be in the APC definition. NO WINDOWS.
Also frick wheels.
Windows were a necessary trade off for it to be an effective COIN vehicle. In a conventional war it will work as a rear echelon shuttler that’s protected from artillery splinters
>rear echelon shuttler that’s protected from artillery splinters
ie, an APC
I know I said as much here
Frick yo wheels and frick yo windows
how long before a track is thrown or binds though?
an APC drops its troops off at the AO before acting independently
unless its a specialized variant like an ambulance, it isnt going to be going back and forth in rear lines but hugging close to the front before going in for a pick up
the MRAP is more of a truck that can resist interdiction from artillery
>an APC drops its troops off at the AO
and why can't an MRAP do that?
It can. MRAPs are literally a kind of APC.
That's what I said
That's not an answer
nomenclature aside, why can't an MRAP do what an APC can?
>why can't an MRAP do what an APC can?
because its intended for a different role, transporting troops around an unsecured rear area
while an APC is for moving troops into a frontline area and then staying there, though without directly engaging the enemy
this argument is fairly sucky when you realise even light and cheap mraps have m113 levels of protection.
>because its intended for a different role
what if I painted over the words "MRAP" with the word "APC" on a MaxxPro?
MRAPs are humvees that can withstand moderate blasts and mines
APCs are for moving troops into battle
>APCs are for moving troops into battle
When the owning entity cannot afford IFV for them to fight from.
APC is a transitional vehicle obsolete because it forces dismount too far to the rear unless the crew and passengers want to get slaughtered. That's why the US quit using them as troop transports but keeps them for specialty use since the fleet was paid off fifty years ago.
Given the Ukrainian penchant for riding on top of their APC's I'm not sure having windows and doors is a detriment. At least it might persuade them to ride in the vehicle and not on top.
Honestly if it stops splinters and survives mines its doing 90% what an APC does with better access and visibility. I'm open to an argument that it might be better than a true APC, although not an IFV.
They ride on top of their BMPs and BTRs precisely because they're not as survivable as MRAPs
They are also very hard to exit from safely.
Especially wheeled stuff like Russian BTR's, side door next to wheels, if you fall out or loose step you could get run over by your own apc.
Depends on the IFV. I'd take a MaxxPro over a BMD because the design made too many compromises to be air-deployable. Unless you are using a BMD in it's very narrowly designed role they aren't good for much and most anything else is a better choice.
Ballistic transparencies can stop RPGs. Modern tires make tracks obsolete and mud forces both onto roads in Ukraine,
Tracked APC will instinctively be used as IFV then destroyed then reviled for not being IFV. witness US inability to keep M113 in the rear with the gear since the 1960s. Tracked APC are a mistake being slow and expensive. Wheels discourage suicide (Russians excepted where they encourage low earth orbit).
Go Brad or Merkava or don't bother.
>memekava
>US inability to keep M113 in the rear with the gear since the 1960s
until the Bradley was introduced, the M113 was supposed to fight alongside the M60 and M1 in the role of IFVs today
who the frick let this moron out of the hospital. Everything you said was wrong
Warriortard cope
It would make sense he is warriortard how ridiculous the statement was about modern tires kek
>Modern tires make tracks obsolete
a bit of an oversimplification
in the <36-ton range wheels are a sidegrade, giving up a degree of tactical mobility (ability to go through really rough terrain) for a degree of operational mobility (fast road speeds and low logistical burden). the clincher is that although mobility is a tradeoff they are definitely cheaper to operate.
>mud forces both onto roads
this is a point though, because neither army has good offroad logistics vehicles
>Modern tires make tracks obsolete and mud forces both onto roads in Ukraine
The single most moronic post on this website. Somone post the Boxer crossing the ditch taking its sweet time to avoid destroying its suspension vs the tracked vehicle that glides over it like its not there.
Now, look at all the images/Videos in Ukraine and the thousands of KM trench networks, which would you rather be in the wheeled boxer that will get stuck crossing a simple mobik trench?
Refrain from posting such delusion in future.
This board is littered with tourists that spec highly of things they haven't a clue about.
The video you speak of is already here
I've seen boxers got fast across similar sized ditches in training videos anon no problem.
Protecting your vehicles from unnecessary wear in peace time is perfectly acceptable.
>Modern tires make tracks obsolete
>mud forces both onto roads
What a moron.
Are you Mike Sparks?
What is that?
If they save Ukranian troops from mines then job well done. They'll be glad they weren't in an M113 or whatever.
> can stop small rounds and sharp nails
> can take a hit from a small mine
> can bring men fast for a low price and less fuel than a tracked bus
Sounds good to me. Wont replace tanks and the tracked gun buses like the bradley but those are joining in to lead from the front. Will be real good in mop ups while the tanks take on the big boys trying to hit back
*laughs in french, brazilian and south african motorized/light mechanized infantry doctrine*
>choosing to straddle the lines of a light utility vehicle and proper armor you have become nothing but a sick parody of both
Its just fitting that America fields the first trans-apc that is neither a humvee nor an apc.
Rate them by which one has the most kino emblem
No that wouldn’t be on topic
47th obviously
82nd is the real killer. I bet Marders will be towing artillery mostly.
I’m not seeing it. Only 14 tanks, mostly very lightly armored APCs and like you said towed artillery
>Challengers most survivable and crucially most *expendable* cutting-edge tank. They won't be getting any more unlike Leopard where the hope is success leads to massively more donations. Challenger is meant to be the tippy-tip of the spear of the whole thing and if every one is lost along the way that's fine, everyone including the British will be pumped to see every one destroyed on the way to the sea so long as it gets them there.
>Bradley similarly is hugely capable -great sensors, cannon designed to frick up trenches full of vatniks, carries it's own infantry to finish the job - and is in the reverse way also expendable since visible success can and will result in them all being replaced and then some.
>lighter towed artillery because it's meant to keep up with the advance and is expendable unlike Gucci 155 Euro-SPGs. Marder while lacking in sensors and accurate fire can handle the terrain and serve to ferry around troops guns and ammo in a rapid cross-country advance.
These guys will suffer terrible casualties but they'll see the most action. Wherever they are thrown into the advance that's the main axis you can bet on it.
Challengers can take hits and keep going, not sure what's in Chobham armour but there isn't much that can get through it.
They're not invincible, but I can reckon that maybe 1-2 tops are destroyed by enemy action. Any other losses will be mechanical failure.
Anti-tank mines will be the biggest threat. No reason to think any Western tank will survive one of those.
You couldn’t possibly know that
Remember that document is dated to February this year. It doesn't account for new deliveries of vehicles.
82 Bde is clearly begging for that second batch of Challys
They'll obviously keep them all together for logistical reasons. Ditto extra Leo 2s that come in.
is it true that everyone in the ukrainian army hates the 47th?
no
LAVIII is the only choice.
>Armored vehicle discussion as it pertains to the upcoming counter offensive in Ukraine.
But what about the upcoming Kaliningrad or soon to be Królewiec offensive?
I don’t know what those are but it sounds like only slavshit will be used. Slavshit just doesn’t get me going so I’ll sit those ones out
>I don’t know what those are
Of course you don't, you're the average burger.
>but it sounds like only slavshit will be used.
Look closer at the vid rel...
?t=56
I want to see a Škoda apc
Why not a Tatra based Waran MBRAP?
We saw Zetor APC, but I don't think there will be anything armored from Skoda ever again. Car division got sold to VW, truck division shut down, and Skoda Transportation only makes trams and trains.
>Intolerance of specific armored vehicles should not be discussed.
The frick do you think we're gonna do, lynch an MT-LB or some shit?
we will boil him alhamdulillah
newbie huh
Trust me, you do not want to know
Well not with that attitude
>The frick do you think we're gonna do, lynch an MT-LB or some shit?
That's happened and it's no laughing matter for the younglings when they lose a parent. MT-LB mate for life, only having casual flings with fortunate humans.
Protip: A gift of hydraulic fluid and a gentle pressure washing is preferred foreplay.
Someone give me a quick rundown of the pros and cons of using MRAPs as APCs in a peer conflict. Like, Roshel Senator is a SWAT van, isn't it?
None, they're every inch as capable as older APCs
the Roshel Senator has all-round 7.62mm AP protection
MRAPs are not better in every respect than an APC, but to say they're bad in a regular conflict because MRAPs were originally designed for COIN is laughable
at the end of the day you still have a transport vehicle that has protection against virtually all small arms, 50 cal in some cases, fantastic blast and artillery resistance, and if upgraded with APS or Q-net, small diameter rockets carried by infiltrator teams
Pros are that they are highly mobile. Light and fast. They also have very high crew survivability versus mines and pretty good crew visibility.
Cons are the normal APC/IMV things. Lacking weapons and the armor is only good against small arms and shell splinters. Pretty typical stuff there. The main thing against them relative to BTR/M113/MT-LB is that they have a very high silhouette making them harder to hide and are wheeled 4x4s in a country of mud.
Overall, not a bad substitute for the role if used properly.
excuse me, they are certainly NOT highly mobile. especially the Maxxpro. That jawn can barely go off the road.
They’re incredibly mobile
Mobility means many things. It is a larger concept than just off-road stuff. Take a minute to think about the ways it can get around versus, I dunno, an M113. MaxxPros are basically a medium duty truck with a metal box on them. You can blast them down the freeway if you wanted to. An M113 would be limping along in the right lane or the shoulder.
Cons: too tall, wide turns, terrible ground pressure, lighter armor vs projectile/HEAT
Pros: wheels give less maintenance/longer range on roads, superior survivability vs blast mines
MRAPs are also cheaper/easier to maintain as they use off the shelf components.
Larger MRAPs are basically APCs but lighter.
I don't imagine Senator doesn't have a v-hull so less survivable than proper mrap.
apologize for double negative, not ESL just drinking
What weapons are this using?
Basic b***h Humvees that have Mark-19s with some crazy optics i have personally not seen before and...are those m2s with some kind of barrel stabilizing thingy or DSKs?I legit cant tell.
MRAPs are okay light apc replacements, especially with rws. Saying otherwise is fairly ignorant.
Wouldn’t the m1117 have some utility in the coming offensive. The mk-19 should be effective against entrenched troops
Where these Black folk been? I want them so bad
I think m2s are going to be an essential piece of gear for the counter offensive. 100 bradleys means a lot of dead enemy vehicles and at least 600 infantry carried to the front. Yes, I understand they will suffer losses but that’s the nature of an armored assault.
If those Brads don't take down at least 2 Russian AFVs apiece I'll eat my hat
I was saying this yesterday. That’s 200 good ATGMs rolling around at the ready. 100 cannons that will chew threw concrete or at the very least keep trenches suppressed. The capabilities gap between the Bradley and the marder is pretty insane.
>capabilities gap between the Bradley and the marder
82 Bde's Marders are for backstopping the Strykers
What do you mean by backstopping
supporting
the Strykers probably are the APC variant without upgraded protection or turrets. they'll only have CROWS 50 cals and Javelin. if they run into heavy armoured opposition or dug-in enemies they'll need the high rate of fire from the Marders' autocannons to punch through
we shoulda sent the MGS version
Aren't they actually sending them?
Ok gotcha that makes sense. It was my understanding that 82 was more of a rear unit and wouldn’t expect enemy contact behind the front lines. The amount of APCs makes me think they will be ferrying infantry up to nearly the front and then going back for more
Is it confirmed they got the CROWS-J?
picrel includes a Stryker, posted by Ukraine MoD
82 is definitely a front line unit, it has the highest concentration of NATO artillery on that list even if towed and not self-propelled. I'm willing to bet it'll get the lion's share of BONUS and Excalibur rounds
I don’t know man. It seems like an APC element with a tank company as security. Hopefully after all is said and done they release the order of battle. Would be cool to see anons predictions vs real life
Seriously frick off warriortard. The challenger is the best protected tank in theater. Why would they put it in the rear? The answer is they wouldn’t. It’s the pointiest part of the tip of the spear
It’s hard to tell if that’s a javelin RWS on top
Also my favorite
Did someone order some dead Russian armor