Someone should be making these as cheap as safely possible.
-Accurate
-Simple
-Lowest Maintenance AR
-Makes cheap 55 grain powerful with proper barrel length
-Barrel length is not bad for home defense, biggest US urban fighting of the century so far, Fallujah, was a decisive win of house-to-house cramped CQB and it was almost exclusively done with M16A4's.
Poor people have second amendment rights too.
Most people getting guns aren't autists or /k/ommandos. They don't need a fancy set up with a nice dot and a PEQ.
They need cheap gun go boom.
Frick ya mudda
kys, marker fedbot
What's the difference between this and a PSA ar15
They could make an M16 even cheaper.
To make it more cost efficient, just make the irons A1 instead of A2 style, and delete forward assist.
>delete forward assist
I kneel
Exactly, if Eugene Stoner thinks it is bullshit, after the army cause all the problems of the first M16 fielding because of their last minute "improvements", then the Forward Assist is shit.
Why precisely does forward assist so intensely bother people, most of whom never used a rifle of any sort in combat and never will?
Havent missed it on my 601 yet
>make the irons A1 instead of A2 style, and delete forward assist.
So... make an A1?
A2 barrel twist rate is different isn't it?
Yeah, Pre M855 the M16 and its derivatives had a 1/12 inch. The early rifles were 1/14. A2s came with 1/7
Nah, more like a C7. The A2 style barrel twist rate allows 55 grain still but also heavier grains. A1 profile is too limited for the modern 5.56 ammo market.
The A1 handguard is too weak, as well as a1 stock reportedly
>Larger rifle is cheaper
Hmmm
>A1 over A2 Irons
Why does every homosexual repeat this shit? Thr A2 sights are far better than the A1 and I am tired of pretending otherwise. The only shit that the A2 got wrong was the moronic barrel and the stock. Everything else it did better,
you're probably looking at it the wrong way. sure, a2 has more adjustability via windage but that's not necessarily a good thing because the drawback is that it's easier to get knocked out since it's less protected and there are more dials/parts. a1 is simplified. simplified ar is peak. they had it right from the start.
mean to say elevation*
>it's easier to get knocked out since it's less protected and there are more dials/parts
Literally a non-issue. The dials are hard to get knocked out and its no Issue with the rifles that came before it. The M1 and M14 had just the same amount of knobs and there was no issue with them. Thats why you make marks to know what position it should be in. This whole "Its way to complicated" shit is moronic. Makes sense for a low IQ population that never held a gun in their life but America had no issue during WW2 and Korea. The A2 sights are far better in every way and if you find the A2 sights "complicated" then you shouldn't be holding a gun.
look at an a2 sight and how it's designed. now tell me that it's completely drop safe. the section where the sight is is completely separate from the rest of the carry handle. a1 is completely protected by the carry handle which is monolithic. it's simply engineering, argue all you want on which is more drop safe..tell me why you would need the added elevation anyways...especially nowadays with optics.
Eugene was mad that colt got the contract so he b***hed and whined and blamed the entire world about every single revision on the rifle, so morons take his word as gospel. He was wrong and moronic.
?
Educate yourselves, or dont!
really you could've just posted
>kenosha
but I'll watch at least most of the video.
>delete forward assist.
As Eugene Stoner intended
I've often thought of what the most minimal cheapest ar 15 build could be
Nothing else matters but
>cheap
>reliable
How much can someone reasonably forgo? Stock? Most furniture? Sights? Trigger guard?
As well as whats the cheapest option for each essential part
>delete forward assist
think of the forward assist in terms of a fixed charging handle. the user can exert both forward and rearward force upon the bolt carrier if the forward assist is present.
I am poor af living paycheck to paycheck Yes I am moronic yes all I own is a stoeger double defense yes I use it for everything. Deer, turkey, waterfowl, hummans, fun
No i will not buy your fluted gayselle trigger ambi cerakote donky kongy rail ar15
"i will not buy your fluted gayselle trigger ambi cerakote donky kongy rail"
The gun I am proposed has LITERALLY NONE of that.
It has built in sights and a standard trigger. It works out of the box with no need for attachments, and it fires the most common rifle ammo in the country.
Ok but can you hunt groundhogs and make groundhog stew with it.
Yeah, it's a varmint round.
Whenever the groundhiggers start undermining my retaining wall or looking at my garden every spring, I .223 em, and give them to my poorfren
it is arguably the best gun for that
>hunt groundhogs and make groundhog stew with it
'ate varmints
Luv me groundhog stew
Why would you want to cook groundhogs? They eat dirt
>paycheck to paycheck Yes I am moronic yes all I own is a stoeger double defense
That purposeless moronic gun cost you $500 fricking dollars
>$500 fricking dollars
There's more dangerous animals out there.
Based Stoeger appreciator. I'm planning on taking advantage of the rebate they're offering on those STR-9 pistols asap
>that guy who buys multiple PSA rifles and says its to 'arm the neighborhood' but really he just wants a crate/rack of rifles because it looks cool
today it looks cool
tomorrow we look cool
Lol dude you know damn well you wouldnt hand over a gun for free.
I obviously get to be the leader of my militia
Oh hey it's me.
who told you about me??
pls no bully
Post your M16
OP here, I don't own an M16 because I'm not poor. I have a decent 14.5 p&w CMMG setup with a dot and flashlight. I can afford to stock up on 62 and 67 grains too.
I just recognize the need for poorgay access to good enough protection/shtf options beyond fuddlore double barreel and pumpguns.
>soulless hurr-speed guccified ARslop
zzz...
>Basic Duty Setup
>"Guccified"
Okay moron
M4s are sexy you're just a contrarian homosexual
PSA is already ten years ahead of you. I agree, sexy basic 20" AR's would be more aesthetic than the ugly railed rifles PSA puts out, but it is what it is. Normies want the tactical shit
>Carry handle is fine. shove an ACOG in it and save even more weight by not needing a mount for it
>Give it a quad rail for easy mounting
>Light to mid weight barrel instead of that crappy heavy barrel that's way too front heavy
Why are there no off the shelf options for this? It would be perfectly acceptable for modern use but companies always want to stick with the plastic handguard and shitty front heavy barrel instead of an A1 type of barrel.
You care about weight, then you want to give it a quad rail you're going to leave bare, or maybe put a flashlight on?
Levels of noguns are off the charts
That but with a carbine lower like the C7. Which reminds me my base rifle lower is out of spec so I should get on and buy a carbine lower
Yes.
I dig the set up, I run something similar on my SP1 Carbine. I like the Acog better then the Colt scope myself.
Mogadishu pilled
>Flippy
Didn't expect sudden nostalgia hits.
perfection
20 inch chads stay winning
the whole "20inch is too long for room clearing" was created entirely by civilian larpers. the ar is moronicly small to start with. I remember the first time I ever held one in person I was shocked that it looked tiny compared to how it looks in videos. the only thing that is actually a legitimate argument is barrel profile. front heaviness is inferior. it's funny how everything has come full-circle with ars. high optic risers, slim barrels, softer shooting gas systems... all of this is a direct result of moronic civilian fudds over the years trying to mimic whatever the military(who is known for making stupid decisions) is doing to their rifles. m16a1 was literally peak minimalism-performance. I'm glad I never wanted to larp as a specops with a 10lb 10.5" ar. shit is fricking moronic any way you slice it.
What a load of crap. Talk to some marines who were in Mosul. Nobody wanted 20" muskets.
talk to soldiers who held a1s while clearing huts in vietnam. heavy barrel a2 is front heavy shit.
> t. larper mad that he has a stupud 10.5 with ir he will never see combat with
>ive held an AR so that means i know what im talking about
Yes 20" is so good that the marines just HAD to shelve them in favor of shorter guns that are just less good to be more sporting to our enemies. SOF types only use mk18s because big smelly MIC won't let then use A2s. A1 was just perfect and any evolution beyond it was just a money laundering scheme
>evolution beyond it was just a money laundering scheme
>he said sarcastically after mentioning the 416
now THATS irony.
Yes the gun that the marines had to adopt because congress wouldn't greenlight new M16s, how is that money laundering on the Marines part?
I have a buddy who was infantry in iraq and he thinks that 16" is too long, moron
You know infantry are literal morons right
But when they say 20" was good they're smart and should be listened to
An infantryman has used one rifle in their entire lives, and will assume anything else is cooler than theirs just because it is different.
You're dementia-posting grandpa
>Someone
PSA is your friend.
any argument you make for this would be made better for a basic m4gery instead. you even acknowledge yourself the actual real life use case for every civilian owned personal defense AR in the us, home defense, so 20" is pointless when an alternative is readily available. civilians are not the marine corps, they do not have to budget and organize replacing their entire stock of infantry rifles during an invasion. And like it or not, le booger loo is not happening and no one is going to be fighting long distance on an afghanistan mountain with their personally owned rifles so any "drawback" to a shorter barrel length is nonexistent meanwhile maneuverability in their own homes WHICH YOU FRICKING KNOW IS THE USE CASE is dramatically improved
if you dont even run an M16 clone then why are you fixated on them?
ta da. try not to bust a nut buddy.
Beside FN who makes new A2 repros that are good?
HRA
H&R AKA nodak spud with PSA funding. They already corrected their early run QC problems and use green mountain barrels with FN barrel options on their M16A2s. I own a 723 and am building a C7 with their newest upper option and my sole complaints are the upper-lower tolerance is a little wobbly but that doesn’t affect performance and I can’t find what their bcg oem is (probably toolcraft).
I personally would grab my 20 inchers over my carbines if i ever had to do some serious shit that wasn’t blasting a gang banger in my hallway just because they’re a joy to shoot and make my poorgay ammo choices more effective. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with a 20 as an American citizen’s main rifle even if its not optimal, most Americans are too unskilled and too out of shape to get full performance out of a goonlord rifle anyways.
>corrected their early run QC problems
yeah, by using the customers as test subjects. Frick PSA and anything tied to them.
The owner of h&r/nodak spud personally dm’d and moved to address every issue he saw pop up on arfcom and reddit afaik.
>M16A1s perma-OOS
>M16A2s and COTS carbines always in stock and 604s usually available
Zoomers just dont have taste
I've actually always been strongly of the opinion that if you wanted a militia that's prepared for an actual boogaloo as opposed to a glorified gun club, you need at least two things.
1. A requirement that every member own and train regularly with a basic b***h M16A2 or M4 clone, in addition to whatever fancier weaponry they might possess. The idea being that everyone will have at least one type of weapon with universal familiarity and commonality of parts.
2. You need a surplus stockpile of M16A2/M4 clones that can be issued in a pinch as a replacement for weapons that are damaged, lost, or destroyed, or be given to new members who may join after said boogaloo starts but they may not necessarily be adequately armed (i.e. a nogunz). Even if you're having them do something as basic as sentry duty, that extra rifle means they can at least stand a fighting chance on their own against an intruder.
I figure that if you're gonna have a paramilitary organization, you still need to put emphasis on the MILITARY aspect of it in terms of streamlined service and supply.
>four men in a neighborhood with communication equipment and training + cheap PSA 20 inch rifles, six full mags., and some Hawaiian shirts
Absolutely beats
>some Giga Alpha dude with fancy as frick rifles, 3k$ scopes and a BMG .50 and cutting edge NODS, sitting on top of a throne of full ammo cans.
Explain the Hawaiian shirts part
>t. Hawaiian shirt fan
Probably a boogaloo boys reference. Ya know, "big luau"
in that post, yeah. But before the 2020 nonsense they were just a meme for being good for concealed carry.
Yeah, it was a good meme. I used to wear them all the time in the 2010s. Sadly, redditors did what they always do and ruined it for everybody.
Does anyone make a basic clamshell handguard but with a qd point near the receiver?
If you are worried about the poor people’s prospects of having a weapon, how about opening the floodgates to cheap chinkguns? They could be cheaper than any PSA AR-15.
>20 inch barrel
>5.56
Why not just use .308 at this point?
weight, recoil, capacity
Because virtually ZERO recoil and still lighter gun, that's why.
Arming the average joe for as cheaply as possible without going full cheapo and giving them hi points
That's why PSA is around.
>Simple.
It’s really not though. Marines spend an entire week eight hours a day learning this platform during grass week. Then spend another week eight hours a day qualifying with it. The average normie needs to learn how to operate this platform properly to be effective with it. Otherwise they might as well just throw rock at the threat.
No shit Marines spent that much time learning how to use it. Marines are fricking morons.
Yeah morons hitting bullseyes at 500 yards with iron sights.
>t. Shot expert my first try.
Same
Let's not pretend the 500yd target isn't the size of a mini cooper
>t. Never got below 330 on a qual
Now figure out how much of that time is spent waiting in line.
do boots really? The AR is easily one of the easiest semi auto (center fire) firearms to operate.
Sure you'll get a lot more time and muscle memory from basic than most civilians ever will, but it's not fricking rocket surgery to be proficient with one. Kyle Rittenhouse "had" his like 5 months before Kenosha.
dude, they are being sold for less than 500 dollars, hell, right now less than 400, how much cheaper do you expect them to go? they still have to make this thing out of metal, get springs and pins and bolts and barrels made and assembled.
I admire your commitment. However, the future is lighter, shorter rifles. Besides, without modern force multipliers, you're just some idiot standing around with a 7 lb reason for someone to shoot you.
>arming the poors with M16s
But that's already happening. Nearly every non-fudd in burgerstan owns an AR-type rifle these days, and I don't know if you've been paying attention to global news reports over the last 2 decades but I'm noticing that thirdies and non-state groups are more and more frequently using them as their rifle of choice while the AK-platform has slowly diminished in popularity.
Don't you AR gays need to stockpile a shit ton of parts?
How many more parts will you need for the "cheap" ARs to stay running?
How are galils anyway? Never used one.
Even the cheapest of ARs are going thousands of rounds without an extractor or piston ring going out
>Buy $500 rifle
>buy 5x$5 parts or 1× $60 bolt face if really lazy
>parts take literal seconds to swap out by hand
Boom, gaurunteed 30k round count lifespan rifle
yeah, if you can get a CHF barrel too you're golden.
I got one of the FN barrelled PSAs for like $400 a year or two ago and need to buy a couple gas ring sets and a BCM bolt or two and the rifle will be good for life and probably any children.
what are the essential backup parts to buy?
>thinking an ar barrel is going to last 30k rounds
lol
The A1 is sexiest
Literally already exists but is constantly out of stock because zoomers love buying them for some reason.
Thats the Colt reissue. They only did a few runs of those before Covid.
Amred poor here. Thank you, PSA, for enabling me to be a modern Minute Man
>too late for mosin crate coffee table
>too early for 40 watt plasma rifle spice rack
>just the right time for coffee table with every m16 variant inside
something something life, lemons, and lemonade, I guess. thanks for the inspiration.
>mfw no surplus m16a2s in yuropistan
i mean i have an a1 but i wanted an a2
Just swap the fore end and you get the same result
how moronic are you?
I mean its a spectrum man
Poors who manage to have no weapons are the least deserving of weapons because they chose to be poor through their refusal to fix themselves, their vile self-pity, and their blaming their failure at life on everyone else then again chose to ignore self-defense to buy crack or booze or both. Piss on them.
If they're poor for medical reasons they're useless in combat.
If they're poor for mental reasons they're worse than useless.
If they're neither poor for medical or mental illness reasons they're too fricking stupid to fix their lives therefore too fricking stupid to be useful in war.
OP is proposing Project 100,000 for civilians. OP is utterly moronic. People who aren't garbage aren't poor. Most poors are poor by their own choices. The non-shit poors I know (legit medical disability like horrific injuries) paid for their weapons and even managed to own their own homes.
Even those with enough ambition to show up for workforce training are frequently moronic or felons (same thing so their future is fricked). After teaching that lot I determined their only use was padding courses so non-frickups with ambition could take them.
this is psas job. its the mission statement of the company
We don't need this, we need cheap or free outdoor ranges where tens of millions of people can go shoot once a week in whatever way they want, flat range, long range, concrete _/ shaped close quarters. There are no fricking good ranges within 100 miles of me. I'll get with the local bros and pick up brass and repair targets for free for the rest of my life if there was a cheap place to shoot 500y
that's not an awful idea anon.10 ach in quadrants for different type of shooting. maybe like 10$ a year to cover tax on the land and the structures. maybe even collect the brass to reload for cheep freedom seeds?
Just get a pawn shop shotgun if your a poor Black person or white trash, But really you should be getting a better job and improving yourself. If you can't afford $2,000 to get properly kitted out, you need to hit the bricks and get a better job.
You want to survive in America? Max out your 401k.
Whats the best poorgay M16A2 out there? PSA PA-15? The Anderson dissipator seems good as well. Hop at least liked it.
“People” (we use the term loosely when talking about /arg/ types) shit on 20s incessantly but there’s always a market for them with the PSA freedom/FN barrel model, the H&R line, and half a dozen decent models in the $800-$1100 range from other companies for the simple fact they’re very pleasant shooters with precise irons. Any discussion about ballistic minmaxing and range comes secondary to that fact because for most people their ARs are toys
>Any discussion about ballistic minmaxing and range comes secondary to that fact because for most people their ARs are toys
Isn't 20" best for 55 grain anyway? Really seems like a win win to me, I dont care what snobby gays have to say.
55gr out of a 20” barrel is goated yes but people will argue muh 77gr out of an 11.5 and muh optimal doorkicking length without stopping to ask if they’ll ever need to clear rooms or if they have a gym membership to go with the gun
In the real world millions of 20" barrels work fine and their owners have zero reason to shorten them.
Larpers pretend shit that doesn't matter somehow matters, then don't do PT or train....
>20 inches is too long!
>16 inches is too long!
>Meanwhile, the Steyr ACR had a 21" barrel and was still 2" shorter overall than an M4, and there's not really any reason why they couldn't have made it another 2" shorter than that
When will people realize that it's not the barrel that's the problem, it's the platform?
20 and 16 are annoyingly long for CQB/Mechanized soldiering but are fine for everything else.
Nobody seems to talk about this in depth but yes a 20" is very annoying to lift up off the floor of an armored humvee (god forbid bradley/lav/stryker) without banging it on the roof. Unwedging your rifle from weird crevices, or just sitting next to someone with your rifle laying across your chest and your muzzle slapping them or other equipment sucks. If you have to get out of that vehicle in a hurry there are a thousand places a 20" barrel can knock on/snag/trip you up. Collapsible stock helps too.
I think you can trace the spread of 14.5s for regular ground troops directly to the proliferation of armored humvees and later mraps.
20s shoot soft, run reliably and properly gassed and have a controllable full auto RoF if that becomes important. You're getting every last fps the cartridge was designed for and you're way less likely to be outranged by an opposing force. Think about what length of rifle your enemies are using and remember that you have probably 250-350fps on them at the same distance and 100-200y more usable range to keep them away from you. It's a sensible choice.
A2 polymers and rifle twist with A1 ergos and sights. Possibly try and implement the Dangnal Dungfeces A1.5 rear sight style mounting with slots for an optic for luxury sake. Shit out rifles in vast quantity, hand them out in the streets. If you wanna go full Fallout Homo, just pull a BCA side charger upper and try and make it even cheaper with said previous features.
Also ergos as in pistol grip and rifle stock length, A1 handguard can go frick itself in a manufacturing and logistic standpoint. Right triangle frick nugget.
This probably isn't the thread for it, but I'd like to ask anyway.
Is there a list of parts to build an A4 clone from GWOT? I mean the long barrel, the carry handle on the side, the sling, all that.
I've never built a gun, and I've touched an AR platform once.
FN makes a pretty close A4 rifle, just needs a carry handle and its G2G. OOW also used to have A4 uppers for sale, but those are now and again so don't hurt to check.
Having been issued several A4s I can tell you the FN model is nearly exact, however, I was never issued one with an ambi safety. Never saw a carry handle outside of the first week of boot camp either. If you are not using a TA31 it's not an A4 as they were NEVER issued with carry handles, never been seen with carry handles aside from phase one usmc boot camp
A4 is a serious money sink because you need the $300 rail, rail covers, $900 acog, Matech/KAC 600m rear buis. A2/A1 or some inspired build with a nitrided 20" barrel would be far cheaper.
Slings would be either fireforce gear (??) black three point sling(pre 2014), 2 point green loop sling (annual rifle qual) or blue force gear usmc coyote sling (post 2014)