Obviously they did some dumb stuff at the start of the counteroffensive, but recently they've been pumping out a shit ton of good content and I thought the unit had matured through actual combat.
But then I learned that one of the Bradley crew members who took out the T-90M had came back from training in DECEMBER from Germany and this was their 2nd ever mission. So are they just a bunch of monkeys with the best western equipment or are they an actual good brigade?
>slavs
no
They are slavs, doing slavic shit, trying to be better, and doing alright but far below a Western European or American army.
Ukraine has been a fully independent state since only 2014, and they have spent the last 9 years modernizing. You can't just make a modern army and state in merely 9 years, it takes literally generations for all the know-how and training to filter down plus tons of reforms and of course MONEY to pay for it all.
Here's an anon in another thread claiming to have trained members of the 47th and other Ukrainians. It paints a mixed picture.
>there are people on /k/ who trained the 47th
wild
>they did some dumb stuff at the start of the counteroffensive
They did exactly what teh nafo instructors in Germany told them, but it turned out that western military tactics don't actually work without complete arial superiority so they got their shit pushed instead. After a week of trying they abandoned whatever they were doing and proceeded with what actually works in conditions they are in i.e. going from trench to trench by foot and merking all the vatBlack folk in CQC, with minimal support of tanks/IFV on the background, and they are damn fricking good at it.
Yes, the original plan was the "big boy" NATO commenaders taking the Ukranians aside, saying they'll tell them how to make a real attack with big boy tactics. But no one in NATO has fought or will fight a war like this for generations, so the knowledge of how to do it is lost. It's really the Iran-Iraq war since the last time we had such kind of combat.
So it's really just European and American leadership first being cheap and giving them table scrap equipment, then thinking they can just rush forward with armor to break Russians.
>don't actually work without complete arial superiority
Yes and its exactly why biden forbid to give f16 to ukraine
Nasty bastard
Best ukrainian regiments are 12th national guard brigade, 3rd assaut brigade, GUR Kraken regiment
To lesser extent 59th mechanised, 93 and 72nd mechanised
And if you noticed all the top ones are from Azov movement, azovites generally make the best fighting units
>Ukrainians can now make mistakes, admit em, learn from them and improve themselves.
A concept completely foreign to Russians. Send in the next wave lads!
I was also one of the guys who trained them last year.
Lots of good guys in their ranks, some duds in leadership roles but also some standouts. A couple had been fighting since 2014 and volunteered for the unit. I met their deputy commander once at a range; he was very sharp. The grunts were generally fairly motivated and were totally down to grind ziggers into salsa, though with some tards and people who just didn't want to be there in the ranks for whatever reason. I hope they figured their shit out because otherwise they probably died.
Not sure how it is for other units but the 47th has a unique identity as its own brigade and the guys in it definitely take pride in that.
The NATO training mission leadership had a myopic view of what they actually needed and how to get it to them, which was immensely frustrating for the instructors on the ground. There wasn't a good flow of information from the UAF to the NATO leadership to the people actually instructing; it would have made lots of sense to focus everything on breaching tasks, SOSRA, obstacle clearance, trench fighting, mounted operations, and the like, but somewhere along the line the message went from "train them on the things they need" to just "train them" so we gave them instruction on stuff like American-style battle drill 6 for multiple days at a time. Useful info, to be fair, but not the best use of resources. Whoever was doing the macro-level training scheduling and task orders also never really communicated with the instructors themselves, resulting in a couple times where we would have land scheduled and people to train but nothing planned for the day and no real guidance besides "figure something out."
The instructors in my unit also had a fairly shitty schedule, like 12 hour days 6-7 days a week, for months on end, which made them burn out and stop giving a frick. By the time we were doing RIP/TOA most dudes were sick of Ukrainians.
>like 12 hour days 6-7 days a week, for months on end, which made them burn out and stop giving a frick. By the time we were doing RIP/TOA most dudes were sick of Ukrainians.
how do they except to fight a war when they get burnout from training some dudes for a few months?
Because you do not fight a war 12/6 for months on end if you want to win. Troops are rotated to rear-areas, there is down time for weeks at a time, you have to give them breaks or the system does not function.
Since WW2, the logistical compacity to sustain war has outpaced humans abilities to endure it, pushing to hard for too long will turn your entire formation in to psychological causalities and their performance generally degrades over time even without constant fighting. The same shit applies to people doing ANYTHING if you don't give them breaks.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of SAG-U either. I specifically remember going through an extremely long process w/ my chain of command involving dozens of staff areas the Brigade Colonel and the SAG-U Colonel and that eventually went up to GFTA CG/7th ATC to get the Ukrainian's authorization to fly drones in the training area.
Some people were resistant to what we were trying to teach them and others were very willing to learn but it was a two way process. I remember my Troop CO being relatively dismissive initially to his UKR counterpart when being told about the nature and complexities of the UAS/FPV threat.
The Ukrainians wanted to fight their way and we wanted them to fight our way. I think it was a bit of a bridge to far to think that they would be able to execute large scale extremely complex breaching operations the way the US does with that kind of a compressed training schedule. That being said, a lot of what we did teach them at the small-unit level was extremely useful.
>The Ukrainians wanted to fight their way and we wanted them to fight our way.
This is basically a summary of every US Military training mission in the last 60 years that doesn't involve green berets.
I wasn't as involved with the UAS thing while I was there but I heard a good bit about your struggles.
I have the feeling that SAG-U is/was sometimes used more as an OER bullet generator and award justification machine than a legitimate tool to get the training audience what they needed at the time. Hell, I saw senior personnel in my unit get MSMs for running it, without taking into account the actual performance of the people they trained using the training they received.
I also saw a lot of what would be rightfully called out as moronic zigger propaganda make its rounds through the American troops involved with the mission while I was there. Dudes saw Tucker Carlson with the shooped version of the leaked UA/RU war loss documents and immediately latched onto it as proof that the whole thing was a Democrat money laundering scheme/the reason healthcare is so expensive/Biden covering up coof biolabs/etc. Others saw stuff like the blown up Leopards or the tank video and took them as signs that Ukraine was 2 weeks away from surrender.
I think the US as a whole does a shit job at countering information/meme warfare and the military in particular is blind to its effects. Plenty of dudes either didn't know how to verify the truth of what they saw or (and this is the more dangerous part imo) didn't care.
I KNOW that SAG-U was an OER bullet machine. My old FSO went to BDE Fires to fill a position up there and this guy complained RELENTLESSLY about getting emails from all these random O6's who were trying to ingratiate themselves with the whole OTR mission so they could get their star.
Frankly, some of it was disgusting.
As far as 'at the joe level', some of my joes are dumb and will buy into shit they see on Fox or twitter without much thought.
A lot of the older guys in the middle ranks are burnt out. I remember having discussion with CW02 who was previously an Apache Pilot and Infantryman and now worked in the ADAM/BAE Cell at BDE about how the whole war started and who was responsible. Basically it he came around to: "Oh well, you think NATO is just gods gift to the world huh? me? I'm just really tired of fighting other people's wars."
>getting emails from all these random O6's who were trying to ingratiate themselves with the whole OTR mission so they could get their star
I can imagine. It's exactly the kind of shit that post-MAJ ladder climber types would love to have on their resumes. Throw in something about joint multidomain operations and LSCO and you're looking at MQ...
Chill, goofballs, he's obviously shitposting.
They were to an extent victims and beneficiaries of Western training, but they adapted remarkably well, which is probably where they benefitted. Last year their strategy would have worked far better if they worked with a brigade of engineers who were well equipped with mine clearing equipment. The 47th barely lost anyone in their summer counter offensive, especially compared to the Russians in the area, but they obviously didn't progress as far as they needed.
Can you post some of that good content?
>just completed training and already using IFVs to frick up Russian heavy armor
Gee I don't know OP, sounds like they're pretty competent to me.
>single biggest western disaster of past 100 years
>ruzzians are casualty averse
Talk about hyperbole and blatant disinfo this is the most extreme cope I think i've ever seen.
The worst day in UA summer counter offensive happens multiple times a day, every day, near Advika
>but most of azov has been utterly and completely shredded like 1.5 times over
nope, most of Azov are still intact, their founder and leader is up and runing the 3rd asssault brigade, and it's not just belief, it's a system that they made that promotes results, their good training, their good comanders and general squad comradery
>the counter-offensive with the single biggest western military disaster of the past 100 years
please be bait
name a bigger one
Again with the shitty bait posts? At least the lack of punction in this one is better, but no bad broken english? And worse, no mentions of trannies, nazis, supposed CIA or Mossad schemes and gay sex? Fricking lame. I'll you see you in my office.
lmfao, what part of the SMO has failed?
virtually every single objective is nearing completion
meanwhile
>the counter offensyiv
basically shattered western support, western military image and since june 4th the afu has been in a backslide, losing territory, manpower and equipment for absolutely nothing
And you keep insisting with this shit bait post. And you keep pretending like I was arguing with you over the war or whatever. Again, work on your fricking israelite and gay sex references and broken english. You don't want me to put you in the locker again do you?
>/k/opers from their momma's basement
Urine is winning, 2 more weeks until putler hangs from the kremlin
>meanwhile what actual Ukrainian generals have to say
pic rel
>tranime
yikes
>goes to traditionally anime boards
>winges about anime
Please do try to poo in the loo in the future baljeet
>Russian military is EXTREMELY casualty averse
hahaha
to be fare they do waste alot of ammo