Criterion 16" barrel, Vortex PST 1-6x LPVO. IMI 77gr Razorcores.
This is @ 100 yards. I feel I should be hitting the bullseye a bit more? For $1pr ammo.
I'm using a rear bag and a bipod.
Are these groups acceptable?
Criterion 16" barrel, Vortex PST 1-6x LPVO. IMI 77gr Razorcores.
This is @ 100 yards. I feel I should be hitting the bullseye a bit more? For $1pr ammo.
I'm using a rear bag and a bipod.
yeah
should specify this is an AR not a bolt gun
Yeah
My PSA has better groupings than that
Maybe.
You'll be the judge.
You shouldn't be spending more than $0.80 per for IMI 77gr. Assuming 1" squares you are generally achieving 1MOA off a rest, which is what that barrel is supposed to do. A more practical metric for acceptable groups would be to asses what you can achieve from field-expedient or unsupported positions at various or unknown distances.
thats what mine look like with a scope. my irons open up to like 5" and i think thats good too
1:7 twist?
1:8
shoot 4 5 shot groups at a reasonably slow pace, don't let the barrel get too hot, and see what those look like. dont fiddle with point of aim during that time at all.
How can I not fiddle with point of aim when every shot takes me off target?
why would that occur
well yeah the reticle is going to move with recoil. like not a massive amount but I still need to reposition
Are you shooting off-hand or on a bench rest?
And are you holding the rifle tight against your shoulder?
Bench rest. It's not real tight against my shoulder. it's kind of an awkward position.
But still its only knocking me off by a few inches.
The stock should be pressed firmly into your shoulder in the most comfortable position you can manage.
I don't know what your setup looks like or how much room you have to shoot, but I'd imagine getting as comfortable as possible would help, as good as those groups are already.
Right, then I misunderstood I guess.
Either way, I've shot many 1moa and a couple barely sub moa groups at 100yd with a PSA 16" freedom barrel + vortex strike eagle.
95% of it comes down to keeping your rifle still, while not being on it too much. Keeping it supported (bipods, bags, etc), but not too supported (too much grip, too crowded up on the rear).
The other 5% is whatever's going on in your head, your stance, breathing control, and breaking the trigger with minimal disturbance.
Just shoot more and lookup Ryan Cleckner on yt
If you're adjusting your POA every shot to correct POI, no amount of 77gr is going to help you.
Honestly for groups w/ a 16" barrel @ 100yds I've had better luck with good m193 and 62gr fmj.
77gr didn't stand out to me until I saw it's repeatability past 300yd.
Picrel is 16" barrel + 1-6x Strike Eagle @ 600yds
Are you me?
Is the reason I sleep poorly because I sleep-drive to Talladega to shoot?
All of these groups are fine. Literally eyeball shots at 100 yards.
thanks all. how can I tell if a group is off just because of ammo limitations or if it's actually needing to be dialed a bit?
with 2 moa groups how do you tell the center of the group?
Get someone else to shoot it who you know is capable of printing good groups.
Ask if the range or your club has someone with a sled set up. Strap it in and zero it/test further.
Not great, not terrible.
There's room for improvement and you should be shooting 5 round groups, but good work.
I've been shooting for a year now on bench, I've shot about 10k rounds total at least 6k on a bench.
I feel I should be better? Especially with my setup
practicing mistakes ingrains mistakes. not to say that's what you're doing, but perhaps there's some minor fundamentals issues at play. having an experienced coach can help immensely. what trigger are you using?
theres something odd about your groups thats why i made the post about shooting 5 round groups, watching heat, and not fiddling with POA
check to make sure you don't have like an mlok screw touching your gas block and get someone to watch you shoot, but to me the groups don't look right.
oh and when i say "don't look right" some of what i mean:
the variance in the group size is huge
the variance in the group center is huge
like i would never guess that the same rifle, shooter and ammo shot all these groups
Honestly I've had this rifle for a year, made a lot of upgrades to it, and it's always had issues.
Maybe it's me, IDK. but I keep throwing money into ammo and don't see improvement. hell I keep having to rezero my damn gun because of all the changes that happen to it, and rezeroing for me takes like 100 rounds easily.
I really wanna sell this damn thing and buy a new one. it's gotta be cursed
you shouldn't have to be rezeroing your gun if you're using the same ammo. are you consistent with your cheek weld? always repositioning after a shot can ruin your groups and POI. from one shot to the next you should not have to move at all.
Here's me shooting 3 months ago so you can look at my form
there's quite a bit of repositioning/shuffling after each shot. perhaps lean into that gun a bit more so there is no need to reposition yourself. tighten it to your shoulder a bit more, and consider not wrapping your thumb around the grip. while you're not going for f class precision shooting, those little tweaks can help. ideally you never want to come off the stock after a shot. keep it up, you'll get there. (then you'll handload for precision and never turn back)
I was thinking of just buying a complete larue upper and testing it out. if it solves my issues then yay, if not, resell it and make my money back
The Larue, while very nice and exceedingly capable, won't fix your issues. All you'd be gaining for groups is a better barrel, which is not insignificant. From the video, you've got a few tweaks to do with your fundamentals. Your groups are ok, but you should be seeing more consistency between them, and that lies on the shooter. Besides, if you're buying a Larue upper, keep it and sell what you have. No reason to downgrade. What trigger are you using?
Well it'd be hard selling my current upper seeing as the barrels had 5k rounds through it almost, and it's rattlecanned.
there's an ass for every seat. a new shooter appears every minute of every day.
I'm using a flat 3.5lb trigger. I'll take it out to the range again with more ammo and pay attention to it but frankly I'm just like, at my wits end with this gun.
Maybe there's something wrong with the upper, idk.
Isn't impossible, I guess. Re-bed the barrel if you have to, check the barrel nut torque. That's going to extremes, really, but it isn't unheard of. imho flat triggers are excellent for bench shooting, and the weight you're at is more than fine. Before you chuck it, have a proven shooter coach you a bit, I think there's more gas in the tank. Remember, rifle shooting is 90% indian and 10% arrow.
before you even take the upper apart just pull off any attachments including bipod and shoot some off a sled or front bag, see what that does
The upper was bedded and torqued a couple weeks ago. But I’ve never tried a different actual upper. The tolerances seem fine the barrel is nearly a thermal fit
then nah, don't mess with it. it's mostly you, but there will be a limit to your group size due to the ammo/barrel. switch to 5 shot groups, but they really should be in the same area and not dancing around the bullseye. regardless, your groups are perfectly "functional" as others have said.
to put this in context, your shooting isn't too bad, i mean this is "effective" shooting, it's just not competitive shooting, if that helps.
so the next level is going to be a bunch of small things that add up to consistency.
some could be equipment, some technique things, etc.
I think you'd be better served buying a new grip and/or stock. Might be an ergonomics issue
those groups all appear smaller than a man's chest, so it is acceptable. Now try from 200 yards
Different guns and barrel lengths produce different results. Your gun just doesn't like it. If I had to guess its the twist rate and its not good for stablizing heavy loads like 77 grains.
sometimes cheap ammo works better than more expensive ammo in some guns, my browning boltgun is better with tula steel case 150 gr .308 than 168gr IMI. id say IMI might just be crap but IMI 5.56 is better than everything else in my 1/7 twist AR. its just the nature of the beast. pic is also IMI 77 gr
forgot pic