They're great if you need intermittent use power in places with good sun visibility but can't run power to for some reason. They're bad to awful for everything else.
>They're bad to awful for everything else.
In northern Europe the legislation has made them attractive, combined with high energy prices. You can pretty much run a $0 power bill using PV.
There's a big push for solar in my country until the end of the year because that's the deadline for monthly billing of surplus of generated power.
Next year they'll switch to yearly average and that's apparently much worse.
I'll wait until next year and then check how much it'll be to put one on the roof. They have to be price gouging right now like crazy.
Our fire station paid 15k€ for an 11.3kW plant.
>Our fire station paid 15k€ for an 11.3kW plant.
Not really a crazy price. 10 panels will run you about 5 to 6k euros in the Netherlands. ROI is 8% about. So its earned back in just over a decade. And they last 30 years.
no, that's BS.
It may have been true decades ago, but now they wind up producing as much electricity in a few months as it takes to produce the panels. (unless you're in the arctic or something)
>unless you're in the arctic or something
They are actually very useful in the arctic, since the sun is out 18-24 hours a day for half the year.
Obviously they don't do frick all in the winter but I have many friends who run their house and EV car entirely off of solar energy from May to September.
The electric company wants to charge me $300 for the past month. I don't know if they'll allow me to use a power generator instead of them. I'm being held hostage.
You don't have to tell them about it depending on how it's set up, but $300 worth of power per month is going to take a lot of solar panels even if your electricity is $.50/kWh.
>$300 worth of power per month is going to take a lot of solar panels even if your electricity is $.50/kWh.
$300 worth at $.50/kWh is only 600kWh/month or about 20kWh per day. In a warmer part of the USA, that would take ~5kW worth of panel or about 12 modern panels. That's really not too crazy.
Depends on your use case and where you live. If you live in a very sunny place like arizona, solar can make sense. In the north where they push it still, it's dumb.
Not where I live. With rolling blackouts every summer, unstable Kw/h prices that are tied with the dollar (because God knows why since we use mostly hydroelectric) and some nice 50% slapped on top of the value. Making the total price per Kw/h be about 1 local currency + the taxes.
So no, my solar panels were the best investment I ever made.
I have a small guerilla balcony solar setup to offset my consumption. Electricity is CAD 12 cents/Kwhr. According to BC Hydro I use 1/40 th what my neighbours use.
In Australia our entire industry collapsed when by rights we should be leading the world right now. >too many buyers were ideologically motivated
Handicapped every part of the supply chain with their illiterate and hysterical demands, these iphone hippies would pay twice the price but demanded their panels be delivered by a donkey and installed by a refugee. >politicians damaged the power grid ignoring planning advice
Anyone with half a brain could tell you that allowing millions of individuals to control output would be a disaster and it totally was. The power stations and switchboards couldn't work out how much power would be needed at any given time, often huge amounts of power were wasted because they weren't needed at the time the sun was out >glut buying
Millions of panels were installed in stupid places where they produced no power, much like redundant wells the state lost control of installation which created a demand that just wasn't sustainable >IP issues
Basically china started breaking patent laws and bribing politicians to allow the illegal pannels in as the prices skyrocketed >market access issues
Nobody was/ is allowed to sell the power they produce. Not to their neibour, not even to their tennants.
A monopoly power market was part of the states deals with the power companies and this created the rediculous situation where the power company was taking 70% of the profit of one person selling power to their neibour.
For solar to progress we need
A. Mass batteries. We've been waiting 100 years for these, some israelite has the patent in his basement.
B. A common power market, where the state owns the overhead power lines.
C. A far more efficient deployment of reflectors vs cells for reasons of cost
Pretty much yeah
mine make $250 of electricity for me every month. i don't feel scammed.
They're great if you need intermittent use power in places with good sun visibility but can't run power to for some reason. They're bad to awful for everything else.
>They're bad to awful for everything else.
In northern Europe the legislation has made them attractive, combined with high energy prices. You can pretty much run a $0 power bill using PV.
Yeah shutting down all the good sources tends to make bad ones attractive.
There's a big push for solar in my country until the end of the year because that's the deadline for monthly billing of surplus of generated power.
Next year they'll switch to yearly average and that's apparently much worse.
I'll wait until next year and then check how much it'll be to put one on the roof. They have to be price gouging right now like crazy.
Our fire station paid 15k€ for an 11.3kW plant.
>Our fire station paid 15k€ for an 11.3kW plant.
Not really a crazy price. 10 panels will run you about 5 to 6k euros in the Netherlands. ROI is 8% about. So its earned back in just over a decade. And they last 30 years.
Pretty much this. It's basically a survivalist kit item.
Photovoltaics themselves are not a scam. The way people push them as the miracle solution to all the world's woes is absolutely a scam.
Nah they be scammin these days
They aren't when you're actually in a good spot for them (i.e. one with high insolation and electric prices).
Also, commercially viable thin-film PV when?
Here in San Diego, electricity is 50¢/kWh
https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-23%20Schedule%20DR%20Total%20Rates%20Table.pdf
It actually is nearly $0.60/kWh at 130% over baseline. And I thought the ~$0.20/kWh in Anaheim was bad enough.
git fricked lmao
Is it true these things cost more environmentally to produce and destroy than the energy they produce?
no, that's BS.
It may have been true decades ago, but now they wind up producing as much electricity in a few months as it takes to produce the panels. (unless you're in the arctic or something)
>unless you're in the arctic or something
They are actually very useful in the arctic, since the sun is out 18-24 hours a day for half the year.
Obviously they don't do frick all in the winter but I have many friends who run their house and EV car entirely off of solar energy from May to September.
The electric company wants to charge me $300 for the past month. I don't know if they'll allow me to use a power generator instead of them. I'm being held hostage.
You don't have to tell them about it depending on how it's set up, but $300 worth of power per month is going to take a lot of solar panels even if your electricity is $.50/kWh.
>$300 worth of power per month is going to take a lot of solar panels even if your electricity is $.50/kWh.
$300 worth at $.50/kWh is only 600kWh/month or about 20kWh per day. In a warmer part of the USA, that would take ~5kW worth of panel or about 12 modern panels. That's really not too crazy.
this. i'm in southern California with 6kw of panels and make about that much.
I've had 4 teenagers on hoverboards ask me if I want to install solar panels on my roof so I assume they're a scam.
No legit business goes door to door
Depends on your use case and where you live. If you live in a very sunny place like arizona, solar can make sense. In the north where they push it still, it's dumb.
>solar panels a scam
If you live at latitudes lower than 60°, i.e. outside the tropics, yes. Yes they are a scam.
no, but solar companies are
Yes
solar thermal are great
Not where I live. With rolling blackouts every summer, unstable Kw/h prices that are tied with the dollar (because God knows why since we use mostly hydroelectric) and some nice 50% slapped on top of the value. Making the total price per Kw/h be about 1 local currency + the taxes.
So no, my solar panels were the best investment I ever made.
No. But solar lease companies are a scam.
No.
I have a small guerilla balcony solar setup to offset my consumption. Electricity is CAD 12 cents/Kwhr. According to BC Hydro I use 1/40 th what my neighbours use.
Easily beat with AAA batteries
In Australia our entire industry collapsed when by rights we should be leading the world right now.
>too many buyers were ideologically motivated
Handicapped every part of the supply chain with their illiterate and hysterical demands, these iphone hippies would pay twice the price but demanded their panels be delivered by a donkey and installed by a refugee.
>politicians damaged the power grid ignoring planning advice
Anyone with half a brain could tell you that allowing millions of individuals to control output would be a disaster and it totally was. The power stations and switchboards couldn't work out how much power would be needed at any given time, often huge amounts of power were wasted because they weren't needed at the time the sun was out
>glut buying
Millions of panels were installed in stupid places where they produced no power, much like redundant wells the state lost control of installation which created a demand that just wasn't sustainable
>IP issues
Basically china started breaking patent laws and bribing politicians to allow the illegal pannels in as the prices skyrocketed
>market access issues
Nobody was/ is allowed to sell the power they produce. Not to their neibour, not even to their tennants.
A monopoly power market was part of the states deals with the power companies and this created the rediculous situation where the power company was taking 70% of the profit of one person selling power to their neibour.
For solar to progress we need
A. Mass batteries. We've been waiting 100 years for these, some israelite has the patent in his basement.
B. A common power market, where the state owns the overhead power lines.
C. A far more efficient deployment of reflectors vs cells for reasons of cost
in quite some places it's a great investment,