Are PCCs actually useless? They don't seem to fill any gaps that a proper rifle missed, and they're much larger than handguns.
Are PCCs actually useless?
Are PCCs actually useless? They don't seem to fill any gaps that a proper rifle missed, and they're much larger than handguns.
They're fun.
quads of truth
This. They're fun and useful for training purposes. They're great for HD
100%
I stash a folded Lelkek sub2k between my mattress and bed frame. Got 1 flush mag locked in and a stendo in a carrier on the stock.
Plan is, if a pack of joggers rushes in, I slide it out, shout
>I DO NOT RELAX
then clack that thing open. Slap the bolt release.
>SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND
Start firing through the bedroom door at noises.
Solid plan, I think.
>haha its fun you should totally try it 🙂
>t. satan
Satan quads confirm
PCC haters don't have fun and have never killed anybody
They let you shoot a center fire rifle for cheap and some can be used on durr at close ranges. They will also frick up your hearing less if used for hd
Cheap to feed, low recoil, and you can find one that accepts your pistol's mags. Outside of that, they perform like a 7lb handgun that's outperformed by .300 blackout in every other measure.
Even a Sig rattler with a 5.5" barrel is going to throw 110gr rounds 400+ fps faster than a 16" 9mm with similar bullet weight
You're aware that a PCC is really an SMG by another name, right? The only major difference would be its semi-auto vs. full auto ability, and generally having a longer barrel length. But barrel lengths are a moot point, a PCC can be made with any length of barrel, and some companies like JRCarbine and S&W offer theirs in very short configurations.
If you want to complain that it's a pistol caliber then you're really just taking issue with calibers, and you can dickwave about .45 vs. 9mm til the end of time. Neither of them are 5.56 or .308, obviously.
PCC would be preferable for home defense if you did have to choose between the two, you're far less likely to blast through 5 walls into your neighbour's wife's son's head at 3am. Ideally you'd be using a shotgun for HD anyways.
9mm is lower recoiling and far easier to mag dump some dindu in the dark than with .300blackout, ironic as its name may be.
>300 BO
>Cheap to feed
pick one
He did, that's why he said 'every other measure'
This.
PCCs are great and I love and support them until some tard tries to argue they're any better than a short barrel ar for non-recreational and sporting use, especially when those people have a can on their pcc which would nullify all the disadvantages of a sbr for something like home defence. Simple fact is .223 out of a short barrel still mogs pistol cartridges in every way it'll stop faster, penetrate armor, and probably even recoil lighter.
Even an ar pistol blows a pcc out the water for this purpose if you can mitigate or ignore the hearing issue just cause all that extra pressure translates into a significant increase in energy.
Honestly a pcc with suppressor sounds pretty comfy for shooting for fun.
They’re fun and smol. Of all of my guns my suppressed 9mm SBRs are the ones that are at the top of the list for pure enjoyment.
They're fun and they let you use a caliber you're already using in a different form. They're great for just plinking, and you could use them for something like pest control or home defense if you wanted.
Not everything is some video game stat-based meta where it needs to fill some tippy top role perfectly, some things just are. Not perfect is not the same as not the optimum choice is not the same as useless.
>they're fun
>they're fun
>they're cheap to feed
>they're fun
>they're great for just plinking
So yeah, they're useless in actual combat compared to actual rifles. You can get a FoldAR if you want something compact.
Yes because we are all in actual combat with all of our semi auto 9mm pccs, got it
The OP's question was
>Are PCCs actually useless (as a weapon)
not
>Are PCCs a fun toy to play with
Let me shoot you center mass with my SP5 and you can tell me if it’s useless or not. Not everything has to be min max video game stats. Literally every gun you will ever own will be nothing more than a fun toy to play with.
So your cope is that it's not a useless toy because it still shoots bullets, but also EVERY gun is a useless toy?
You might as well give them over to the ATF, gunkopop collector
What I want most is something like the USW. Frick SBR laws.
You are going on a long walk with a handgun and a shoulder gun. You can carry either
1. A whole bunch of 9mm ammo, or
2. A medley of different caliber ammunition.
>actual combat
Avoid this lol. If you were issued a PCC, your job is to get inside and lock the doors until backup arrives.
or
10mm/.357 Magnum sidearm and whichever rifle or shotgun is best suited to the conditions.
More versatile, not too complex for anyone with an IQ above single digits to use.
inb4 "just use 9mm bro, bears and junkies don't real"
>10mm/.357 Magnum sidearm and whichever rifle or shotgun is best suited to the conditions.
This. Having the long gun match the sidearm caliber is nuts. Especially post-1873. Primary weapon is the primary weapon.
You forgot to mention how fun they are anon
Of course why else do they exist. But fighting is not one of them I think. Useful for target shooting
Are you bringing them to fricking war? You likely don't even need a gun in the first place, especially not some battle rifle meant for actual combat. You're getting a cheap rifle with all the benefits of it, with cheaper ammo that is more than enough to take down any threat or game you're likely to face.
Other than conceilability and convenience, they're an objective upgrade in every way from handguns.
My personal favorites are lever action carbines chambered in 357 or 44 magnum. The try-hard tacticool shit doesn't fit.
Where are all these anti-gun shills coming from? Is this a raid?
The war attracted a ton of dickless, noguns fricking yuros who think that "pro-gun" means allowing you to shoot a registered bolt-action on a controlled range only.
Telling you the truth, that you will most likely never use a gun for it's intended purpose, is not antigun
Buy however many guns of whatever type you want, but they're nothing more than overqualified hole punches
Are baseball bats actually useless? They don't seem to fill any gaps that a proper mace missed, and they're much larger than knives.
Baseball bats are a fun toy but should not be considered over a mace or knife as an actual weapon. Just like PCCs.
>Baseball bats should not be considered over a knife as an actual weapon.
>t. someone who is completely moronic
Reach is everything for melee weapons. You're a complete moron if you'd opt for a knife over a baseball bat in any situation where concealment isn't a concern.
>reading comprehension
Mace OR Knife. If your lineup is Mace, Knife, Baseball bat, only a moron would take the bat.
You ever fought against some one with a bat? I have, if you miss you won't have time to recover, if the person knows best they'll step in before you swing and they'll be to close to you for your swing to have any power, also sucks in hallways and other confined spaces.
This is now a bat vs knife thread.
Knife is the correct answer if you are capable of violence. You will take a shot, maybe even a broken arm, but the batman will die.
The bat is a better choice for cowards.
A PCC is a midway path between a pistol and a rifle. You will have more gun than a pistol, less than a rifle.
That would be a rifle-caliber carbine.
That is above a PCC, but below a rifle-caliber rifle. You are partially right.
>9mm currently can be had for 22c for steel cased or 24c for brass when excluding commercial reloads and other shit from fly by night companies
>the cheapest centerfire rifle ammo now starts at 40c for steel cased or 44c for brass, and prices are set to rise further since we're just 83 days from the last import permits for cheap Russian steel ammo cased expiring and there has been little to no non Russian steel cased ammo hitting the market
>there are a lot of tasks one might use a rifle for where 9mm will work just fine, just like there are tasks that people might use a rifle for where intermediate rifle calibers are completely suitable for rather than needing to use a full power rifle caliber
The answer is pretty obvious if you actually shoot rather than just looking at spec sheets like you're comparing stats in a video game.
Buy a BB gun, you can shoot it anywhere and it's way cheaper than buying ammo, homosexual.
They're also not suitable for anything other than squirrels and maybe rabbits at very short ranges. Meanwhile, you can absolutely hunt deer with a 9mm carbine in states where shots are typically taken inside 100 yards.
But why would you ever hunt anything with 9mm? It's a pistol caliber, designed for a handgun, suitable for a handgun.
Maybe in 1880 you could make a case for a rifle in pistol caliber. Not today.
>It's a pistol caliber, designed for a handgun, suitable for a handgun.
So what?
>Maybe in 1880 you could make a case for a rifle in pistol caliber.
Animals haven't gotten tougher since the 1880s anon. Meanwhile gun performance has done nothing but increase, with .30 Super Carry now throwing a comparable weight bullet at a comparable velocity from a 4" barrel to what .32-20 loaded with black powder would do from a rifle, and people used to hunt deer with the later.
you can hunt animals with a desert eagle with a 9" barrel. That doesn't make that firearm "useful"
>a firearm being a suitable choice for hunting doesn't make it "useful"
Anon, more animals are taken by hunters in the US in any given year than there will be people shot by other people in the US in your lifetime.
>Anon, more animals are taken by hunters in the US in any given year than there will be people shot by other people in the US in your lifetime.
That's great. But there's literally no reason to buy or use a PCC for this task. Hence, PCCs are useless and do not fill a niche.
Sorry guys, fun is not a niche, pack it up
Guns are tools designed to shoot other people you fricking manchild. buy nerf guns.
Why are you such a homosexual
How many people have you shot homosexual?
Go the frick back.
99% of guns will never be used to shoot a person
The first rule of gun safety is to have fun
>Guns are tools designed to shoot other people
>does the task
>uses cheaper ammo for more practice
We're currently seeing a reversal of the post Cold War drop in the price of rifle ammo, resulting in a significant the price gap between .22lr and .223 for something else to fill. What argument do you have for why that gap shouldn't be filled?
Exactly how much ammo are you using to practice hunting? Have you heard of dry firing? Why do you need a semi-automatic firearm?
>Why do you need a semi-automatic firearm?
>Why do you need a semi-automatic firearm for hunting?
You don't.
Just sold my Sub2000 today, FX-9 is in the mail. PCCs are just fun to shoot, and they make good defensive carbines.
You are a Black person, and I hunt with a semi auto just to make you seethe
>Just sold my Sub2000 today
Good, fick those things.
Yeah. The folding mechanism is cool but it has a sloppy lockup, and it's not designed to take lights and optics. The FX-9 is basically an AR clone, I'm excited to get my hands on it.
The whole thing is shit. The sloppy lock up, the shitty front sights, you can put lights and optics on it but you're going to need to need the special mount, also the recoil sucks, more so than most PCCs.
The FX-9 is way more fun to shoot, because it has an AR look it made me not want to purchase one.
>need
>Justin Trudeau has entered the chat
I don't train to hunt animals, Anon.
>Why do you need a semi-automatic firearm?
Hunting animals with semis is just practice.
The niche is arming poorgays on the cheap. Getting a carbine into the hands of the poorgay that bought a Glock, but can't afford to sustain the purchase of two separate ammunition types and a new set of magazines. The purpose is to arm anyone and everyone based on their personal circumstances and preferences.
>"But Anon, I'm a tremendous homosexual and don't understand anything due to this fact and I also do not own guns. If they have a Glock, they should just shoot that and not waste their time on a PCC."
The PCC is a long gun and provides three points of contact. Disregarding the increased muzzle energy a 124gr 9mm Luger would accrue from increased barrel length, the fact that it is a carbine with the ergonomic benefits it provides will make the poorgay more effective at defending themselves without having to buy new mags, stockpile new ammunition, acclimate to new recoil impulse, adjust to a weapon with significantly more range and ballistic profiles, etc.
The purpose of the PCC is to arm poor people.
>rice cooker keychain
Lol, but now after seeing it from that angle I'm wonder if anyone has made a butt plug version.
A 16" barrel vs a 5" barrel for only increases the velocity by ~%20 for most types of 9mm.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html
Which sounds significant until you realize velocity doesn't help with anything beyond maybe being able to get through low level soft armor.
Pistols have needle dick syndrome and neet to hit something vital (brain/heart/artery/spine) to kill quickly.
They don't go fast enough to cause a temporary cavity any larger than the path of the bulleteven with a 16" barrel.
The don't cavitate to cause a larger permanet cavity.
They don't fragment.
a situation you were not expecting to be hunting, putting food on the table with your cheap gun using cheap ammo, hunting on a small property with close neighbors, finishing off an injured kill or in brush. it's never the optimal choice- but the gun you have is the gun you use, and there's plenty of poor rednecks who poached deer with 22lr.
any projectile capable of killing WILL go through sheetrock, insulation, and plywood, birdshot included. a pcc is definitely more controllable and more accountable for anyone.but the best reason to use a PCC is noise. 9mm out of a 10 inch blowback is tolerable without ear protection where a pistol would waste that pressure as noise. Don't get tinnitus, kids.
Yeah but I'm not poor so my house is made of brick, the only thing I'd be leery of using inside the house is .308 because it could possibly hit a mortar joint and lobotomize the boomer next door.
I always wear earpro when I go shooting, even with .22LR as a best practice. If I had to shoot my funs in my house in a defensive manner I'd be screaming racial epithets and profanities so loud the gunshot would be the least of my worries.
PCCs are indeed useless in an actual combat scenario. They're also useless if you just want to target shoot, because .22 exists. They're only useful if you already have a pistol + mags + thousands of round of ammo, and for some reason can't buy an actual rifle.
There is a global lobbying initiative to remove rifle-caliber guns from civilians in general. Might be a reality from non-US people in a few decades.
dont care, love my mp5 simple as
If they weren't limited by NFA/GCA stuff they'd be better, but really, you can only squeeze so much performance out of pistol cartridges. 9mm simply doesn't have that much powder behind it.
Theyre "fun." Personally don't own any and don't really see the point. I can consistently hit a full size silhouette at 300 yards with my handgun. Idk. Buy em if you want em.
The entire point is they use pistol ammo.
I shot a Black person in the leg and ass with one, once, when he broke into my house. He screamed and cried. Sheriff laughed and told him to suck it up. They’re useful for buck breaking.
Who here /ghettoblaster/ here
The original model was combat-tested in Colorado!
Yes. Now, turning a PCC into a proper SMG with some wacky fun bits, that’s absolute top-tier for home defense or self-protection.
>But muh actual combat that I’m never going to actually seeeeeeee
Sure, you’ll get better results than a handgun. Better velocities, extra point of contact, etc. But that’s something you’d see in the hands of either 3spoopy types, or logistics types. But it’ll still kill someone dead to a reasonable distance just fine.
every gun that isnt a self defense handgun or a hunting gun is 'useless'
cali/britbong noguns spotted
If we didn't have SBR laws they would be a lot more useful. An uzi sized gun is about the best home defense gun you can have.
They work for their intended uses, which is cheap HD when pistols are unviable, close range varmints, and plinking/training.
The idea that a Glock is fine for HD but a PCC that takes Glock mags is useless is asinine. Min-maxing is unnecessary to keep meth heads out of your goddamned basement.
If you shoot someone with good shot placement they will not be able to attack you anymore.
Not always true.
You have to spend a lot to get a good one.
They're pretty good, love my PC Carbine, but cucked by the NFA. A suppressed PDW thing would probably be the home defense meta if we didn't have it
>PCC seethe
Some of them are ridiculously easy to convert to full auto, no coat hangers or receiver drilling necessary and just as easy to change back to stock configuration for sale
It's more gun than you'll ever have so it's fine
>cheap ammo
>fun to shoot
>low recoil
>slaps varmints just fine
They're alright.
>They don't seem to fill any gaps
They're a good bedside gun; handguns are harder to handle, and rifles have over-penetration and maneuverability problems. A PCC will also handle multiple intruders better than a handgun.
They're also good truck guns. Although you'll want a handgun in your door panel if you're in more urban situations. A SBR comes with a bunch of ATF frickery.
As most people noted, a properly configured PCC is an outstanding home defense weapon. Suppressed with subsonic ammo & the heaviest bullet that can be pushed, it's devastating. The S&W for your picrel is a very exciting, recent addition with several important features, including price.
I like 'em because you can have one gunsack with a PCC and a couple pistols and all the mags and ammo digest through everything without having to worry about keeping all that shit separate. Good for home, bugout bag, camping trips. Having half a dozen mags loaded with different ammo and being able to choose the "best" one for whatever situation you're in is a huge benefit.
"Useless" is the opposite word that you are looking for. But, as with all tools, you want the right one for the job. If I'm home, this would be one of my top choices to pick up to eliminate visiting unfriendlies. Being able to fire this off without raping my eardrums is a huge advantage over a handgun. 9mm is plenty (especially since this model comes with 23 round mags). If I somehow emptied one of those mags, then I'd just drop it and draw my handgun if I was in a hurry. If I wasn't, I'd pop the mag out of the handgun and reload the PCC. It would also take deer out to 100 yards without a problem.
There are other positives. One thing that would make me even more interested would be to have a set of M&Ps in 10mm mag. I'm watching Smith & Wesson to see if that might be in the cards ... might actually consider swapping my 9mms if I could have that.
>As most people noted, a properly configured PCC is an outstanding home defense weapon.
They're really not.
Working in a ER, all the stuff I've seen or read over the years, the chances of surviving being shot with handgun caliber is pretty high.
Also pistols calibers don't frag and tumble like rifle rounds do, so the chances of OP is much higher.
You're also not humping this gun around for miles on end, so no real reason to not pick a shorty rifle, it doesn't even need to be short if you train.
Absolute moron take, pistol calibers suck at killing things compared to any center fire rifle caliber round. Your heaviest bullet doesn't cavitate, fragment, or cause any damage beyond the actual path of the bullet pushing through the body.
They only exist because of SBR regulation.
>Absolute moron take, pistol calibers suck at killing things compared to any center fire rifle caliber round.
And yet a handgun in the hands of someone who practices is already good enough.
Why do dumbfricks feel the need to open their mouths on shit they don't know anything about? I handgun hunt and I'm more successful than the majority of rifle hunters. Motherfrickers were making buffalo go extinct with muzzle loaders, shooting relatively soft lead at low velocity back in the day. More people were and are continued to be put down in the ground with pistols over rifles, and most game weighs less than a person.
Do morons have no shame? Is that what compels them to type dumbass opinions on shit they haven't even the remotest clue about?
>it's devastating.
X - Doubt
Thinking about converting one of my ars to a 9mm carbine rifle to silence. Anyone have experience doing this? Is it worth it?
I feel like PCCs exists exclusively for competition. It's great if you are a beginner or experienced because it's low investment/cheap and builds skills.
multi-gun:
>Most ranges with steel targets don't allow rifles to hit them unless they are like 200 yards away
>When running "heavy metal" divisions with .308 cal rifles most ranges have moronic limitations or shitty berms so even if they say they are doing "heavy metal" most ranges will have stage limitations
>Due to weird limitations at various ranges it causes confusion in ROs for what targets can be engage with what guns, which wastes time and breaks the flow
>So much shit to carry between stages, have to use a cart for guns, tools, mags and ammo for multiple guns
>Multiple guns means multiple manual of arms and varied malfunctions across platforms
VS PCC:
>One gun to run all stages at all ranges
>Can shoot steel at all ranges
>One type of ammo and mags to carry for all stages
>Single manual of arms, practice limited malfunctions
The best home defence tool is a handgun with a vertical grip.
>Are PCCs actually useless?
No. Always choose the right tool for the job.
They're good for not putting holes in your wall when you shoot the home invader
Take a couple handgun classes, learn to actually shoot a handgun accurately, and yes they're useless. They're a cope for trainlets who can't use handguns because it requires more skill to hold them on point and not fear the snap. If you can shoot a handgun accurately it's immensely more useful to you than a rifle sized handgun. They weren't developed for your skill lacking ass to use as a cope, they were developed as a gun to be fired in full auto with little recoil, and you can't get them in full auto so that point is moot.
this much cool shouldn't be legal (it isn't)
Not every gun or implement meant for a gun has to fill some homosexual minmaxxer larperator niche to play pretend at the range like you're some American Taliban in training
Consider this, in a SHTF scenario, 95% of the people your going to have to worry about won't have any kind of body armor, pistol calibers are ubiquitous, if you don't have 800-1K to spend making a decent AR build (legally) a PCC is a great compromise. Realistically unless you plan on getting into consistent firefights with armed militias, or the remnants of the state, you don't need much more. And if you do plan on doing that, you already know you need more then a PCC with some chinesium red dot.
>in a SHTF scenario, 95% of the people your going to have to worry about won't have any kind of body armor,
Did you just time travel here from the 80's?
You can buy chinesium level 3 plates for less than $100. They're fricking everywhere.
>You can buy chinesium level 3 plates for less than $100. They're fricking everywhere.
No, they really aren't. People who own body armor are a very small portion of gun owners. Besides that, those chink level 3 plates will stop .223 as well so there's really no reason to worry about pistol calibers vs intermediate rifle calibers there.