Are expensive shotguns even worth it? My $250 Remington 870 express magnum can shoot as well as an expensive Benelli. Explain if I am wrong.
Are expensive shotguns even worth it? My $250 Remington 870 express magnum can shoot as well as an expensive Benelli.
yeah and ok
I'd assume it's one of those were
>if you have to ask, the answer is no
expensive shotguns are status symbols.
are they nicer? of course. not that you'd be able to appreciate the difference between a $1,500 gun and a $20,000 gun
Gotta define expensive here, OP. You aren't buying an economy model 870 for $250 anymore. Nothing wrong with an 870. They're great shotguns. Aftermarket parts out the ass and they just work. If you're buying something more than that, then you're buying it for fit, finish and features. At that point it's not about shotgun go boom, it's about shotgun feel good & go boom.
Not having to deal with Remington is enough reason to pay more money on a gun. Plus Benelli Novas used are still frequently $250-$300 and are just objectively better in every way besides the furniture than the 870.
You really think Beretta CS is any better?
Vastly, but Remington will get better in the next few years thanks to being owned by Ruger now.
Ruger doesn't own Remington.
Ruger bought Marlin and is leaving the rest to rot. There will never be a decent firearm with the Remington logo on it ever produced again.
Explain. How is it better?
Better finish, better QC and parts fitment, more up to date tooling, and the fact that Beretta’s been owned and operated by the same family for 500 years, while in the past 5 Remington has been bought and sold and divided up like a cheap prostitute.
They technically own a part of it.
Not really. A sporting clay gun is going to be lighter and the double barrels allow for quicker follow up shots, but the absurd price they command is for boomers that spend all of their off time at the club and shoot a few games a weekend
You don’t shoot as well as you think you do
The only reason to have a pump shotgun is they are safer to carry for breaching or you find yourself with the need to quickly dump out a round and throw a slug in. Which are also things a double barrel can do
Break actions and semis shit on pump guns every day all day.
>The only reason
Are you unfamiliar with hunting or are you a complete brain-rotted larper?
I am familiar with people coping, yes. There is no world in which a pump action is better or even equivalent to a semi or break action in any situation outside imaginary poorgay boomer innawoods muh swiss army knife larping. The modern pump action is the stanag scout rifle of the shotgun world, absolutely perfect for poorgay fantasies and barely limps across the finish line otherwise but appeals to the same kind of people that buy .22lr rifle based on whether or not it can fire .22 shorts accurately
You don't hunt
No they don't. Semis are very limited in their selection of ammo at any given time and they will always be less reliable overall. A pump can run anything and if you know how to use it and have trained with it, then you can literally pump out rounds as fast as a semi. You use the recoil of the shot to rack the slide after you pull the trigger. Just watch Paul Harrell, he's really good at it.
My benelli auto has thousands of rounds under it, never been cleaned, zero malfunctions. Seems pretty reliable idk
Thousands of rounds of what kind of ammo? Just a bunch of different brands of similar loadings? I will concede that an expensive semi will probably be more reliable, but there are natural limits to what a semi can reliably cycle. You have to adjust them in order to go from low pressure to high pressure, yadda yadda.
>You have to adjust them in order to go from low pressure to high pressure
If you're shooting a Browning Auto Five, whose design dates to 1902, then yes. But that is the exception rather than the rule, most semi auto shotguns don't even have this mythical adjustment you speak of.
Mostly 2 3/4” clay & target loads, a smattering of 3.5” bird and turkey rounds. I will admit to never shooting slugs, but I don’t believe they’re undercharged. The gas system is fantastic, no user input needed or possible it just works - granted it should at the price point
>Semis are very limited in their selection of ammo at any given time
Where does this fuddlore come from? What is your personal experience with this or are you just parroting bullshit?
I currently own or have owned the following semi shottys: Benelli Cordoba, Remington 1100, Benelli M2, Mossberg 930, Benelli M4. All of them, right out of the box, would happily shoot cheapass Federal Top Gun and other walmart tier cheap clay ammo through the hottest magnums no problem. The Cordoba and the M2 would even cycle Fiocci Exacta Trainer loads which are pretty much the weakest 12ga you can get unless you're talking about less-lethal. Which guns & load combinations were giving you trouble?
I've got to change the rings around in my Remington Model 11 in order to shoot different loads.
Congrats, you picked the one gun which has this adjustment!
I have a Vepr 12, which is supposedly one of the most sensitive shotguns to short stroking on low dram loads, and I have never had a malfunction shooting thousands of shells through it ranging from the cheapest target loads I can find to Brenneke Black Magic slugs.
>Semis are very limited in their selection of ammo at any given time
Just another data point to add to the pile, my TS12 would beg to differ. After using everything my LGS and walmart have to offer, I can confidently run all the way down to ~1200fps target loads on my High gas setting, and can run literally everything (except mini shells, haven't tried those) on Low. The fastest pump or bolt or non-.22 lever action cope spray is still slower than your average semi shooting, and if you train both,which you should, one will always be infinitely faster.
>Just watch Paul Harrell,
I came here to shitpost, not to cry manly tears
>You have to adjust them in order to go from low pressure to high pressure,
You can, but you don't really have to. It's moreso that the Low setting is a catch-all that will make sure the bolt cycles regardless of pressure, but they don't make many low-pressure lethal shells these days. The hottest non-bubba-nuclear shell is still a mile below a rifle's chamber pressure, and far under what modern shotgun barrels and gas systems are equipped to handle without breaking.
>Just another data point to add to the pile, my TS12 would beg to differ.
My old ass beretta A303 will cycle 21g shot no issue, new ones wont
>Semis are very limited in their selection of ammo
>there are natural limits to what a semi can reliably cycle
this is what happens when people think their feelings are more important than facts. you're trying to sound scientific and authoritative, but are just spewing fuddlore.
semi autos cycle more or less anything but mini shells, I had fud gays so much
>can’t shoot doubles
What’s your 16yd trap average?
>Are expensive shotguns even worth it?
Depends on what you're doing with them. Home defense, occasional hunting, maybe blast a few clays now and then? There's not much of a point to a fancy gun.
If you're actually serious about hunting with shottys or shooting clays? That's a different ballgame. A lot of guns won't stand up to shooting thousands of shells a year. And double-barrels mog pumps and semis for hunting or clays, they have a number of advantages:
-No wasted space for the bolt, so you can have a longer barrel or make the gun shorter
-You have the ability to put different chokes in each barrel, so depending on what shot presents itself you can choose which barrel to fire first.
-Same as above, but with different types of shells so you're prepared no matter what kind of game might present itself
-Much better ergonomics
-Instantaneous second shot that cannot short-stroke, mis-feed, or jam.
>If you're actually serious about hunting with shottys or shooting clays?
The thing with sporting shotguns is not the fact they are designed to take thousands of rounds a season, which they are, you are paying for the R&D that goes into the barrel tech for better patterns, better stock shaping, more technology = more cost like anything. My Beretta 694 was £3500 and it shoots WAY better than my 682 Gold E, my Nikkos, my SV10, my A303 etc. Expensive shotguns AFTER a price point are a status symbol but if you are olympic or a high volume sporter then you NEED a gun that has the years of experience people like Beretta offer. Custom fits are essential when you get to skill ceiling.
>t. AA class skeet shooter Shot a 97/100 today in -4c
TLDR : I shoot 10k+ birds a year and I would not trust anything UNDER a 694 tier gun to stand up to what I do
Totally agreed.
One thing I find interesting is that even the megabuck shottys that are status symbols have a huge amount of care and attention paid to how well the guns pattern. If you buy something like a Holland & Holland or a Purdey they will outright guarantee a certain number of pellets in a 30" circle at a given distance. You can see the process of manually honing forcing cones & chokes at around 12:30 in this video.
High-volume bird shoots were all the rage in Europe in the 19th century, even back then in the days of twist barrels higher end guns were expected to group like that and last for many thousands of shells a year. Read about picrel, for example, he'd shoot 30...40,000 shells a year.
https://vault.si.com/vault/1972/05/22/the-game-hog-of-dallowgill
Point is the old makers of shotguns have been working on perfecting longevity and pattern for a long, long time, with extremely demanding clients.
I find shotguns particularly interesting because both ends of the spectrum are covered so well. The super high end guns are amazing pieces of machinery, honestly the closest thing to a magic wand this world will ever know. It's hard to picture a firearm which has had more refinement. But at the same time you've got the Maverick 88. And sure, it's no fancypants competition or heirloom gun, but it's incredible how well it works for what it costs.
>One thing I find interesting is that even the megabuck shottys that are status symbols have a huge amount of care and attention paid to how well the guns pattern
I use Teague titanium extended ported chokes, the ports do frick all for recoil but they strip the wad away so much that a pattern even in a CYL choke looks like I'm shooting a IC sometimes. The DT11 has forcing cones all the way to the chokes, which gives a perfect shot string. If I could afford to move up to the DT11 tier I would but I can't just yet, but I nearly made the national team last year, first time out and nearly everyone above me has a Kreighoff K80, a DT11 or a custom gun in the £15-18k range. It's not hard to make a decent O/U the Turkshit ones these days aren't so bad honestly, but I wouldn't feel good about shooting 2-300 shells a week with one. At Xmas I got every gun out that wasn't my 694 for a fun comp, guess what - I still beat everyone using 5 different guns that don't fit.
Krieghoffs are rarely mentioned here compared to H&H or Purdey, but i think they are the most beautiful and impressive shotguns made
>Krieghoffs are rarely mentioned here compared to H&H or Purdey
I mean.... H&H and Purdey are £50k to start with a Kreighoff is £15k onwards, kind of a different ballpark. They are DT11 / Perazzi kind of money not I need to be a ginger bastard of Princess Diana money to buy one. Sure you can add £100k of engraving and gold and israeliteels and shit. Saying that I saw one of these at the National selection and I was enamoured by it. Ed Solomon swears by Krieghoffs, but I've never shot one so can't say personally how they perform but a lot of the top boys like a 9lb+ gun.
You can't flex on poors online with that shotgun, but you can embarrass people with expensive safe queen shotguns with a friendly shootout at the range if you actually know what you're doing with that thing.
Only semi/full auto shotguns are worth paying more money for, and some of them are just overpriced memes. For pump action, you're dumb if you suggest you need to spend more than $400. Anyone who disagrees is a triple Black person. Live your truth, king.
Me have maverick 88 and he makes boom when me point it at thing me want kill
good
I save up to buy a shotgun at my LGS. They toss in a box of low-base 8s to sweeten the deal.
Boomergays wax poetic about the joys of incremental unobtanium.
My kids have shoes and dinner. I am not fail.
chad
As sour grapes as it sounds, imo no unless you have money to blow. A pump action like a good 870 or 500 with correct training which isn't a lot honestly is more than enough for game and dropping an attacker.
Being injured in one hand like the FBI agent in the Miami shootout using a pump is the only reason that comes to mind where a semi auto like a 1301 or Benelli would be better is the only thing that comes to mind for me.
>pic rel; police shooting a hostage taker with a shotgun and dropping him in one hit