Has anyone done videos on the effectiveness of shot vs drones?
I could see a pretty compelling use-case for having under-barrel shotguns loaded with birdshot.
>All those videos of kamikaze drones chasing some poor fricker around like Benny Hill that would at least have had a chance if they had a shotgun to bring it down with
Yeah, this is the point. I see too many strawmen about how drones fly too high to hit and are too big to meaningfully damage with a shotgun, but the kamikaze drones are tiny, and they are flying to near contact distance. For the distances involved, and the barrels most likely to be used [cylinder], I recommend #4 Turkey Shot. Do not confuse this with #4 Buckshot - they are different.
>can fly
They're not using DJIs for suicide attacks, they're using slapped together chinkshit; additionally, they won't fly well and eventually the vibration will down the drone on its own
3 months ago
Anonymous
>score a graze on one prop >get blown up anyway >at least I died uselessly and had to haul around this shotgun!
3 months ago
Anonymous
Okay, if shotguns are ineffective, what would you suggest? >Continuing to lay down in the mud and die isn't a useful suggestion
3 months ago
Anonymous
No, frag your commander ofc.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>workers of the world, unit!
communism isn't a useful suggestion
3 months ago
Anonymous
proper jammers.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's incorrect. DJIs can fly with half a prop snipped off.
However, these vulnerabilities aren't quite so easy as my post would have you think. At least not for a shotgun. Nearly every FPV drone out there has a carbon fiber frame. The top plates on most of them are 2-3mm thick. While this is trivial for a rifle bullet, a birdshot pellet may have trouble penetrating that, especially if it's angled. If a drone is flying at you the plate will almost certainly be angled. Also from what I've seen, most kamikaze drones I've seen have the battery mounted to the bottom and the warhead on top. If the warhead isn't sensitive enough to be set off by a hit from a shotgun, it will act as extra protection for the center of mass of the drone. The wires and motors are still hanging out in the wind and vulnerable, but they're very thin targets.
>However, these vulnerabilities aren't quite so easy as my post would have you think. At least not for a shotgun.
That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life anon. We've seen drones go down from being hit with rocks, other drones, and hitting tree branches. A single birdshot pellet anywhere other than a microscopic glancing blow to the edge of the prop is going to send that shit spinning into the ground from the sheer kinetic energy alone. This is like when World of Tanks autists decide which is the greatest tank by reading stats about hull thickness, gun diameter, ect while ignoring common sense.
>can fly
They're not using DJIs for suicide attacks, they're using slapped together chinkshit; additionally, they won't fly well and eventually the vibration will down the drone on its own
You moron. A missing prop blade will cause terrible vibrations and ruin any footage you're trying to record, but it's still perfectly capable of flight. There's a few vulnerable spots that will down a drone in a couple seconds if not instantly, but the prop blade is not one.
To name the vulnerabilities I can think of >prop hub, a cracked prop hub will throw off all the blades and that will cause the drone to fall out of the sky >motor, hitting the coils will short them out and hitting the housing or bearings will seize it >motor wires, severing any one of the three per motor will stop that motor >ESC, destroying it also stops the motor >flight controller, it's the equivalent to the brain and destroying it stops everything >radio receiver, unless it has a weird failsafe mode the drone drops out of the sky if it loses its control link >video transmitter, while this doesn't stop the drone outright it basically goes dumb as the pilot can no longer see >battery, puncturing any of the cells will short the rest out and voltage rapidly drops
3 months ago
Anonymous
However, these vulnerabilities aren't quite so easy as my post would have you think. At least not for a shotgun. Nearly every FPV drone out there has a carbon fiber frame. The top plates on most of them are 2-3mm thick. While this is trivial for a rifle bullet, a birdshot pellet may have trouble penetrating that, especially if it's angled. If a drone is flying at you the plate will almost certainly be angled. Also from what I've seen, most kamikaze drones I've seen have the battery mounted to the bottom and the warhead on top. If the warhead isn't sensitive enough to be set off by a hit from a shotgun, it will act as extra protection for the center of mass of the drone. The wires and motors are still hanging out in the wind and vulnerable, but they're very thin targets.
Even in that scenario they have to be abe to >identify the drone and where it is >pull out their shotgun >be a good enough shooter to hit a small fast moving target
The first two are hard enough to have the time. The third is the key issue. I’ve seen enough people miss birds and miss clays to not have much faith in the average soldiers shotgun skills. These are people who practice for that specific task and still fail. I fail at both too.
Now would I like the chance to save my life, of course. But I don’t think it’s practical to have soldiers carry another 8lb gun + ammo + train to hit aerial targets.
This guy gets it. It's not about shooting down a high flying drone that drops bombs on tanks, a light machine gun can handle that, it's about shooting down that tiny suicide drone that is coming for YOU personally. And in order to do that you will need a heavy shot for high flying birds like #4 turkey shot. You want to get it before it is close enough to be taken down by smaller shot.
>turkshit
hard pass on that chief
lol
> I see too many strawmen about how drones fly too high to hit
Thats not what a strawman is. What youre describing is an 'argument'
>he doesn't know that a straw man is a fallacy posing as an argument.
You have failed.
>they don't have the range or penetration to do anything meaningful vs drones in military operations
Why do idiots assume that shotgun pellets magically vanish beyond fifty yards? Do you have evidence to support the claim of them being useless against drones or just 100+ hours of counterstrike?
Not knowing how shotguns work and confidently proclaiming that they're useless despite more than 100 years of successful use on the battlefield is perhaps the biggest noguns calling card
yeah, Black person, that's why you hunt turkeys with field loads and not mercilessly powerful shotshells with filled exotic metal pellets, extreme chokes and massive shot weights
oh wait, that's exactly what you do to kill a bird at a maximum of 60-70 yards. >uhh, actually just field loads should kill a carbon fiber and metal drone at 100 yards
are you OK moron?
Pretty much any long barreled semi auto. But SPOTTING the drones is the hard part. Most commercial bomb drones will only be visible inside of 500ft and thats really only if you were following it from takeoff
how about a phased acoustic system (an array of phased microphones) for pinpointing the sound? not as cheap as the ol mk-1 eyeball, but it might offer better target acquisition.
in addition to this, a form of triangulated radio receiver that can home in on the drones video transmission. you wouldn't need to DECODE the video transmission, just pinpoint its source.
Yes anon obviously an expansive detection system is going to be useful but this still requires 24/7 shotgun overwatch by a human who can still miss. The issue is that you cant really pack that up and move it around.
>this still requires 24/7 shotgun overwatch by a human who can still miss.
if the detection is good enough, you could make a sort of auto-shotgun turret, and even vehicle mount it. with software that automatically detects the specific audio signature of a drone, homes in on the general location, maybe has a thermal optics camera to hand off for further refining targeting, and an auto shotgun, like a mini CIWS
3 months ago
Anonymous
in addition to this, being able to pinpoint the actual transmission from the drone back to the operator would be FAR easier to detect, pinpoint, and track.
>frick I meant /misc/ not /po/
Someone post that old "accidentally posted on /po/ instead of /misc/" OP pic; I can't find it. I gotta have it somewhere on an old hard drive but it's lost.
No, no, the one that was straight out the gate just "FRICK (pick group of whoever /misc/ was posting about at the time, probably israelites)" and the first reply was something like "this is /po/, anon, I think you want /misc/". I did find this one though; apparently it was more common than I thought and a lot of people ended up spamming /po/ to be "funny".
What actually works is everyone in the unit shooting their rifles at it. There was russian drone units complaining of losses when they overflew friendly positions.
Anyone who has ever shot geese knows this would only "work" at the very last second before an FPV strike. Birdshot doesn't have the effective range to damage a drone before it's about to smack into you; buckshot doesn't have the pattern density. The best you could do would be pure tungsten shot and a very long, specialized choke, but in all likelihood the momentum of the drone would carry it to or near to the target anyways. You're just as well off magdumping an AK at it.
I think an automated optical scanner with AI target recognition is the way to identify the various hovering bastards, be they surveillance or bomber drones. Feed the info to humans with a GPMG or HMG equipped with a range finding scope, like the Vortex NGSW thing.
This. Drones fly too high and fast for birdshot. Plus you have to carry around another weapon and deal with that weight and bulk for the very slim chance of deploying it effectively. I’d wager a cost/benefit on number of lives saved vs degraded performance from carrying around another 10lbs doesn’t favor the carry a shotgun option.
Serious question here, can thoses types of shield or the return of shield coupled with shotgun automatic weapons be an answer to proximity drone warfare ?
Can you ive me pros and cons, feedback or military experiences ?
It's scary to see all thoses slaughtered webm and no capacity to fight back, hopelessness
yeah bro just lug around an xbox hueg shield during trench warfare against drones you might not even notice before they kill you
fricking mouthbreather
people keep saying this and then don't post any evidence of shotguns being better at shooting down drones than rifles. the problem isn't that a rifle can't shoot down a drone, the problem is that the drone has already either spotted or killed you by the time you know its there.
no, shotguns are a meme, the Russians would've pulled out the blunderbusses and tossed them on some meatwave if they were effective in any way.
It's jammers, AA and mobile targeting systems
>Are drones the shotgun's redemption arc?
The more Ukraine drone shit I see the more I have to say yes. Carrying a super shorty in a leg holster might actually be a good idea on the modern battlefield.
If 30mm airburst shells count as shotguns, yes.
Has anyone done videos on the effectiveness of shot vs drones?
I could see a pretty compelling use-case for having under-barrel shotguns loaded with birdshot.
we have actual videos of the Ukranians with pumps and saigas shooting at drones to no avail. they're not up to the task.
do something like 30mm shot/cannister exist? that might have better luck than any small-arm.
Post videos homosexual
no, because they don't have the range or penetration to do anything meaningful vs drones in military operations.
also
yeah.
t. noguns
bait (and herbed)
>All those videos of kamikaze drones chasing some poor fricker around like Benny Hill that would at least have had a chance if they had a shotgun to bring it down with
Yeah, this is the point. I see too many strawmen about how drones fly too high to hit and are too big to meaningfully damage with a shotgun, but the kamikaze drones are tiny, and they are flying to near contact distance. For the distances involved, and the barrels most likely to be used [cylinder], I recommend #4 Turkey Shot. Do not confuse this with #4 Buckshot - they are different.
I'm under the impression that the props are all plastic, in which case damaging *any* of them will instantly down the drone
That's incorrect. DJIs can fly with half a prop snipped off.
>can fly
They're not using DJIs for suicide attacks, they're using slapped together chinkshit; additionally, they won't fly well and eventually the vibration will down the drone on its own
>score a graze on one prop
>get blown up anyway
>at least I died uselessly and had to haul around this shotgun!
Okay, if shotguns are ineffective, what would you suggest?
>Continuing to lay down in the mud and die isn't a useful suggestion
No, frag your commander ofc.
>workers of the world, unit!
communism isn't a useful suggestion
proper jammers.
a weapon to surpass metal gear.
>However, these vulnerabilities aren't quite so easy as my post would have you think. At least not for a shotgun.
That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard in my life anon. We've seen drones go down from being hit with rocks, other drones, and hitting tree branches. A single birdshot pellet anywhere other than a microscopic glancing blow to the edge of the prop is going to send that shit spinning into the ground from the sheer kinetic energy alone. This is like when World of Tanks autists decide which is the greatest tank by reading stats about hull thickness, gun diameter, ect while ignoring common sense.
You moron. A missing prop blade will cause terrible vibrations and ruin any footage you're trying to record, but it's still perfectly capable of flight. There's a few vulnerable spots that will down a drone in a couple seconds if not instantly, but the prop blade is not one.
To name the vulnerabilities I can think of
>prop hub, a cracked prop hub will throw off all the blades and that will cause the drone to fall out of the sky
>motor, hitting the coils will short them out and hitting the housing or bearings will seize it
>motor wires, severing any one of the three per motor will stop that motor
>ESC, destroying it also stops the motor
>flight controller, it's the equivalent to the brain and destroying it stops everything
>radio receiver, unless it has a weird failsafe mode the drone drops out of the sky if it loses its control link
>video transmitter, while this doesn't stop the drone outright it basically goes dumb as the pilot can no longer see
>battery, puncturing any of the cells will short the rest out and voltage rapidly drops
However, these vulnerabilities aren't quite so easy as my post would have you think. At least not for a shotgun. Nearly every FPV drone out there has a carbon fiber frame. The top plates on most of them are 2-3mm thick. While this is trivial for a rifle bullet, a birdshot pellet may have trouble penetrating that, especially if it's angled. If a drone is flying at you the plate will almost certainly be angled. Also from what I've seen, most kamikaze drones I've seen have the battery mounted to the bottom and the warhead on top. If the warhead isn't sensitive enough to be set off by a hit from a shotgun, it will act as extra protection for the center of mass of the drone. The wires and motors are still hanging out in the wind and vulnerable, but they're very thin targets.
>turkshit
hard pass on that chief
> I see too many strawmen about how drones fly too high to hit
Thats not what a strawman is. What youre describing is an 'argument'
Even in that scenario they have to be abe to
>identify the drone and where it is
>pull out their shotgun
>be a good enough shooter to hit a small fast moving target
The first two are hard enough to have the time. The third is the key issue. I’ve seen enough people miss birds and miss clays to not have much faith in the average soldiers shotgun skills. These are people who practice for that specific task and still fail. I fail at both too.
Now would I like the chance to save my life, of course. But I don’t think it’s practical to have soldiers carry another 8lb gun + ammo + train to hit aerial targets.
Most people dont realize a drone is effectively invisible past 300ft. You would have to be staring at the sky constantly to even have a chance.
This guy gets it. It's not about shooting down a high flying drone that drops bombs on tanks, a light machine gun can handle that, it's about shooting down that tiny suicide drone that is coming for YOU personally. And in order to do that you will need a heavy shot for high flying birds like #4 turkey shot. You want to get it before it is close enough to be taken down by smaller shot.
lol
>he doesn't know that a straw man is a fallacy posing as an argument.
You have failed.
>Shotgun can't shoot the drone that's beelining towards me for a kamikaze hit. Range isn't good enough because "military" reasons.
Couldn't they just have a family member sent them a shotgun and some shells? Would command confiscate the gun if they had on it on the line?
>they don't have the range or penetration to do anything meaningful vs drones in military operations
Why do idiots assume that shotgun pellets magically vanish beyond fifty yards? Do you have evidence to support the claim of them being useless against drones or just 100+ hours of counterstrike?
Not knowing how shotguns work and confidently proclaiming that they're useless despite more than 100 years of successful use on the battlefield is perhaps the biggest noguns calling card
yeah, Black person, that's why you hunt turkeys with field loads and not mercilessly powerful shotshells with filled exotic metal pellets, extreme chokes and massive shot weights
oh wait, that's exactly what you do to kill a bird at a maximum of 60-70 yards.
>uhh, actually just field loads should kill a carbon fiber and metal drone at 100 yards
are you OK moron?
turkeys are armored dipshit
Can the people who propose this type of thing actually point to a video or some other proof of this being done successfully in a warzone?
picked this one up off of /po/ a few minutes ago.
actually came to /k/ to ask you guy's expert opinion on the best shotgun to use vs light drones, and I saw this thread in the catalogue.
any takers?
sorry, picked up the webm from /misc/, not /po/
Pretty much any long barreled semi auto. But SPOTTING the drones is the hard part. Most commercial bomb drones will only be visible inside of 500ft and thats really only if you were following it from takeoff
>But SPOTTING the drones is the hard part
how about a phased acoustic system (an array of phased microphones) for pinpointing the sound? not as cheap as the ol mk-1 eyeball, but it might offer better target acquisition.
in addition to this, a form of triangulated radio receiver that can home in on the drones video transmission. you wouldn't need to DECODE the video transmission, just pinpoint its source.
thoughts?
Yes anon obviously an expansive detection system is going to be useful but this still requires 24/7 shotgun overwatch by a human who can still miss. The issue is that you cant really pack that up and move it around.
>this still requires 24/7 shotgun overwatch by a human who can still miss.
if the detection is good enough, you could make a sort of auto-shotgun turret, and even vehicle mount it. with software that automatically detects the specific audio signature of a drone, homes in on the general location, maybe has a thermal optics camera to hand off for further refining targeting, and an auto shotgun, like a mini CIWS
in addition to this, being able to pinpoint the actual transmission from the drone back to the operator would be FAR easier to detect, pinpoint, and track.
>frick I meant /misc/ not /po/
Someone post that old "accidentally posted on /po/ instead of /misc/" OP pic; I can't find it. I gotta have it somewhere on an old hard drive but it's lost.
this one?
No, no, the one that was straight out the gate just "FRICK (pick group of whoever /misc/ was posting about at the time, probably israelites)" and the first reply was something like "this is /po/, anon, I think you want /misc/". I did find this one though; apparently it was more common than I thought and a lot of people ended up spamming /po/ to be "funny".
frickin love that picture.
Anybody moronic enough to suggest this has never hunted birds. Even a target directly above you can be out of range pretty quickly
What actually works is everyone in the unit shooting their rifles at it. There was russian drone units complaining of losses when they overflew friendly positions.
Dual Winchesters as a fricking sidearm was the stupidest thing COD ever did
Not with shitty 1887s like that no.
US should have send these frickers to Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Modular_Accessory_Shotgun_System
Anyone who has ever shot geese knows this would only "work" at the very last second before an FPV strike. Birdshot doesn't have the effective range to damage a drone before it's about to smack into you; buckshot doesn't have the pattern density. The best you could do would be pure tungsten shot and a very long, specialized choke, but in all likelihood the momentum of the drone would carry it to or near to the target anyways. You're just as well off magdumping an AK at it.
I think an automated optical scanner with AI target recognition is the way to identify the various hovering bastards, be they surveillance or bomber drones. Feed the info to humans with a GPMG or HMG equipped with a range finding scope, like the Vortex NGSW thing.
This. Drones fly too high and fast for birdshot. Plus you have to carry around another weapon and deal with that weight and bulk for the very slim chance of deploying it effectively. I’d wager a cost/benefit on number of lives saved vs degraded performance from carrying around another 10lbs doesn’t favor the carry a shotgun option.
>tungsten has a lower atomic number than lead but lead is heavier
Serious question here, can thoses types of shield or the return of shield coupled with shotgun automatic weapons be an answer to proximity drone warfare ?
Can you ive me pros and cons, feedback or military experiences ?
It's scary to see all thoses slaughtered webm and no capacity to fight back, hopelessness
Shit forgot pic
But the question still is
Yes a big kevlar blanket would probably work to some effect, at least against the cheaper bombs
yeah bro just lug around an xbox hueg shield during trench warfare against drones you might not even notice before they kill you
fricking mouthbreather
Has either side used drone jammers in the war yet? If so, why aren't they more widespread? You can buy them on Ali for fricks sake.
people keep saying this and then don't post any evidence of shotguns being better at shooting down drones than rifles. the problem isn't that a rifle can't shoot down a drone, the problem is that the drone has already either spotted or killed you by the time you know its there.
no, shotguns are a meme, the Russians would've pulled out the blunderbusses and tossed them on some meatwave if they were effective in any way.
It's jammers, AA and mobile targeting systems
I would like to point out that's not even a very good barrel for that type of shooting.
>Are drones the shotgun's redemption arc?
Depends, do you have an optic that can not only sight a drone hundreds of feet in the air but do the ballistic calculations to predict where to shoot?
okay, here's another idea..... how about having a pocket full of gravel you can just throw at a drone?
>Are drones the shotgun's redemption arc?
The more Ukraine drone shit I see the more I have to say yes. Carrying a super shorty in a leg holster might actually be a good idea on the modern battlefield.