Being that drones are so apparent and affective in Ukieland- how might one extend anti-drone cap to the average soldier?
https://wolfhillammo.com/12gauge33ballandchainmagnum.aspx
Would picrel work? What is the average drone engagement range? Couple picrel with flight control? Am I moronic?
That seems like it'd break apart from being fired.
The tests I've seen for this kind of thing show that the wires withstand the air easily enough, and successfully control the spread of the pellets to keep them within a maximum. On impact with the target, only the pellets do real damage, though, the cutting effect from the wire is disappointing on anything beyond cardboard.
If the air resistance slowed it down before a distant impact and the wire was fairly thick, maybe it could tangle up a drone propeller. If that was the intention, you'd probably want to trade the mass of the big pellets for more wire.
shotgun fired airburst shells would be better
Birdshot would work better.
Are there airburst shotgun shells yet? How would you fuse something that small?
>what is a VT shell
No need to program when the round itself detects targets. But they payload would be tiny.
Sounds expensive. I doubt Ukie would be able to outfit your average soldier with that sort of thing- not even on my dollar lol
It was possible to do it in WW2 in such quantities to equip rapid fire cannons.
With modern technology making things cheaper and smaller it should be trivial for today.
But when OP said average soldier I figured they meant just soldiers in general across the globe enhancing their anti-drone capabilities.
>just soldiers in general across the globe enhancing their anti-drone capabilities.
But does a proximity fuse fit in a 12 gauge?
Honestly, I don't think bolo rounds would even hit the drone. Accuracy would be terrible with the bolos swinging every which way and they spread less than buckshot so you'd need to be precise.
Are you familiar with drone engagement ranges? My thought would be to couple the bolo with a flight control that would cover most engagements.
ex:
If avg engagement is at 300yrds, then fire FC rounds set at maybe 250yrds and you can customize the chain lengths for the application. This is obviously pushing the ranges of 12g rounds and platforms, but just sort of spit-ballin
If you've got flight control for bullets you don't need to use bolos. Just use it on rifles.
You lost me.
I'm saying design a round with a ball n chain inside that is set to break apart at an extended range conducive to destroying drones. I'm not aware of a rifle round that could pack enough shit in it to do this.
If you can program the round to break apart at a certain range you're better off using a fragmentation round. The spread is more uniform and thus reliable while a bolo coudl swing right around a drone without hitting it.
A lot of these drones are unarmored and powered by lithium batteries so even a small puncture can destroy them.
you can achieve the 'break-apart' function mechanically. Do I know how? Of course not.
could be a mechanical fuse of some sort that could be shortened or extended based on range?
Not with any ease. Programmable fuses work because you can transmit the correct timing to the fuse. From there you can send an electric signal to a blasting cap. For a mechanical system you need to do something weird like demagnetize magnets or trigger a micrometer scale sollinoid. It's very complicated and I'm not seeing a benefit for using bolos instead of fragmentation.
When Flight Control was mentioned I was thinking Smart Bullets. The prototypes used .50 cal rounds as a base.
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/290105-ww1-1914-scovill-model-1907-fuze-with
Bolo because the mechanical fuze is inexact. Theoretically, you could get another 50yds of flight from the bolo wad, and if the chain is extended to 24", I dont see any sort of frag round getting that kinda range.
But yea you're right, just using whatever tech we are currently using with frag rounds would be best- I just dont see those being used and the only reason why is because of $ and logistics
>the only reason why is because of $ and logistics
I assume
Honestly, the cost is why I'm advocating for straight up birdshot. For hitting such a small target they're more effective than Bolos.
You might be right. My thinking was the bolo would allow you to cover the entire diameter, rather than select spots within that diameter. And I don't know that a few bird shot pellets would down a drone and with what consistency. Bolo would almost guarantee a downed drone if it was hit in any capacity as the chain would be caught in the propellers
>theoretically
Forget getting tangled on the drone, a Bolo would slice chunks off of a drone. Those things are made extremely light and flimsy and a supersonic steel wire would slice through it like cheese.
>birdshot
As in picrel would be utterly useless? Ive seen vids of what I imagine is birdshot being used but no reports of it working. I cant imagine something so readily available and affective would already be used
12gauge is 18,5mm - and there are multiple 20mm smart munition platforms already
>multiple 20mm smart munition platforms already
wuh dey at doe?
Doesnt seem like getting these in the hands of your average soldier is feasible, or they would be doing it? Why aren't they?
antitank weapons are also rare but ensure infantry is not defenceless - one per squad would be more than enough
Thank god we dodged this moronic 20lb CHONK refrigerator-toaster paradigm
>Birdshot would work better
Range is the problem, while you want pattern density you also need range. You'd need to test what the best size shot would be for this specific operation.
True, birdshot would only work on a drone flying in low to drop a bomb.
The bomb itself is usually just dropped via gravity, could you not shoot it out of the air like Skeet?
>like skeet
>except you're trying to aim almost straight up and what you're shooting at quickly accelerates to higher speeds than any clay
The bombs themselves are usually cased in steel. The drone is also bigger than the bombs it carries.
Is that even feasible? There would need to be a way set the range- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airburst_round
Sounds complicated. If one could ascertain the average engagement range, then flight control could be made to break apart at a range that would cover most engagements.
>I have zero combat xp
>Am I moronic?
Yes
Just use birdshot
steel buckshot? i know that french use some long barrel bennelli for anti drone use
Got a sauce?
>https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/06/10/french-army-benelli-supernova/
28 inch barrel m3 for shooting drones
picrel was in comments of the articlke you posted. Why tungsten?
Keeps pattern longer and shoots further.
So a mechanical fuse that looses the wad at a determined distance packed with bolo tungsten loads is what I'd want.
Fuse could be a tensioned spring that would uncoil upon firing and depending on how tight the user wound the spring determines how quickly the bolo wad is loosed.
>profit
Why steel? It patterns worse. Seems like the exact opposite of what you want. Lead would be better, tungsten would be best but too expensive.
All the improvised drones so far seem like copter designs. It would be cool if a small model jet with working radars and electronics package could find them based on the RF emissions of the spinning motors and radar signature and shoot them down with something like 410 shot shells.
>shoot them down with something like 410 shot shells
You need a recoilless shotgun design first. A drone aircraft doesn't have the counter-mass to buttress a firearm.
I was thinking about a concept using .22lr mounted in some sort of recoilless chamber/barrel assembly but I couldn't work out how to fire it and be recoilless at the same time without massively increasing the weight.
makes sense. If the goal is only to take out copters, I wonder if expanding foam or other liquids could be sprayed underneath the model jet while it flew past
Russians actually made something like that, minus the radar of course lol. There was a thread on it here a few weeks ago. Basically an early 2000's tier foam RC flying wing built around a Saiga in the center of it.
>tfw we will never have dogfights over active warzones with steamy RC ducted-fan on quadcopter action
dumb question, what's to stop someone from simply flying a small RC plane with some spools of tangled nylon wire trailing behind that will get caught in a quadcopters rotors and take it down? Seems like a pretty cheap option for taking down a much more expensive drone.
Isn't the current state of the art nets? You can drop them from a drone easily. No shot will work because of the distance, same deal with bullets since the accuracy demands are too high.
I'd think you'd need either a micro-missile anti drone launcher, some sort of computer controlled small caliber AA gun, counter drones with nets, or possibly a laser.
Wasn't there also handheld beam-jammers that could knock out drones? I'm thinking this could be the beginning of generally issued man portable energy weapons.
>Being that drones are so apparent and affective in Ukieland- how might one extend anti-drone cap to the average soldier?
Bird shot is fine, drones don't have the weight allowance for any kind of armour and birdshot will punch through very light and thin carbon-fibre shells, if it isn't ultra-low density PLA even.
Drones can break by flying into walls, they're the absolute opposite of resilient and essentially every component on the drone is mission critical and will down or disable the drone if damaged.
I love when moronic underaged posters come here and try and reinvent the wheel in the dumbest ways possible
>reinvent the wheel
this assumes a 'wheel' already exists in this scenario. In the context of this post that wheel would be an affective anti-drone tool that is accessible to your average soldier.
>Endless stream of your average soldier getting sploded by drones
pick one homosexual
>need age cap
>this assumes a 'wheel' already exists in this scenario. In the context of this post that wheel would be an affective anti-drone tool that is accessible to your average soldier.
>gee what kind of shotgun ammunition already exists that's designed to shoot small flying objects out of the sky
>some kind of shot for birds maybe
>maybe bird shot
>maybe bird shot
There's no way the solution could be that obvious
its not. The drone would have to be within like 50yds, in which case most hobbyist shooters could hit it with a standard rifle
>in the future, every squad will have a man with a baseball/cricket bat or tennis racquet (dealer's choice) who's job it is to bat away drone 'nades
problem solved
How about a giant mecha wielding a giant baseball bat?
Now we're talking. Make it happen, LockMart
Birdshot is fine. Rather than taking out the drones, efforts should be made to track them and take out the payload. Some sort of overlay that would make movement more prominent would be useful. There have been accounts of people shooting grenades and explosives out of the air. You just need to know where they are coming.
>how might one extend anti-drone cap to the average soldier
What would be the advantage of this to justify its existence over just investing in EW at the company/battalion level and SHORAD like NATO does? That's one more thing for an infantryman to have to carry and one more task for them to worry about doing while under fire.
idk what military R&D is like but from my perspective, the only reason these things arent already prevalent in UKR is money and logistics. Thats one reason drones are so affective in the first place, cheap and available. simply having a shotgun in a squad with a 5 or so additional specialized rounds doesnt seem like a burden.
The biggest issue seems to be drone detection. They don’t know it’s there. Flight control wads with tiny fishing nets and weights?
Flight control wads with tiny fishing nets and weights?
Yes
Could you build a gun that fries the electronics? Drones need to be light, so they can't build protection into the system.
How far could a beam like that extend?
BB shot in magnum loads. Smaller than buck for patterning, but more ass than bird loads to actually punch into the CPU, batteries and motors.
Good luck hitting an 80mph maneuvering drone at 300yds or further.
Anti drone operator gets EW equipment if your army can afford it, or a shotgun if they cant
counter drones would also be effective
how high are these drones when they operate? can you hit them with birdshot?
>can you hit them with birdshot?
Not in most circumstances. Consider that Turkey hunters can push out to 75 yards or so using special extra full chokes and specially loaded magnum ammo both made specifically for turkey hunting. That's only 225 feet, and when you factor in that you're going to be shooting at an angle rather than straight up, the drone would only need to be flying at more than 200 feet to be at over that distance from you assuming you're aiming upward at less than a 60 degree angle
A rifle should be fine as long as you can spot the drone. Both sides are already losing a lot of drones, after all. Maybe some lighter, higher velocity ammo since drones are small and fast but also very fragile.
'As long as you can spot the drone' is a big caveat, and anti drone defence should focus on that.
Drones are the size of birds
Use birdshot
Modern problems can use classic solutions
Bolo rounds are more chaotic, birdshot has a more predictable pattern
Ammo availability is much better
Super cheap
Slugs can be jury-rigged with wax or cut shells
>Slugs can be jury-rigged with wax
go on...
Search "wax slugs" for more info, but basically you can use wax to hold the birdshot together in a single mass so it acts as an improvised slug
anon buy a 20 dollar drone off Amazon and fly it straight up in the air. once it hits about 200ft you cant even see it anymore, even if you followed it all the way up. you would need superhuman eyesight to be able to detect incoming drones and i'd be shocked if birdshot would even hurt most drones at that distance. you certainly aren't hitting them with that gay bola round.
you only need to hit 1 or 2 props to down it right?
There are many ways to defend against these quadcopter style drones. I do not have the diagram ready for you at the moment, but I'd at least consider a simple jammer. Running a powerful current through a long vertical wire, hanging from a balloon, hanging from a building or from a tree. Such as the Ukrainian balloon jammer they use for drones. It is a tactic that can be employed in any context.
The big juicy UAV style plane drones with missiles are a whole different matter. You would need an SAM system ideally, or to destroy the communications tower.
There's the silly string DARPA/Patria anti drone system. Perhaps some kind of modified shotgun with a lazer rangefinder and programmable fuzed projectiles that release a cloud of that?
Though a grenade launcher might be the better option.
Maybe the XM25? Or some version of it?
That could work I suppose
slightly scaled up gyrojets that have a flight computer and targeting
Most of the time, the pressing issue is not killing the drone, but just SEEING it. You could have a TV remote that turns off any drone with a button press and it won't matter if you don't even know there's one around.
The future of warfare is going to be sticking to the umbrella that is a drone defense vehicle. You'll have a truck with radar and a powerful laser who's only job is to kill anything in the sky within a mile.
low magnification thermals hooked up to a shotgun. give it to one homie whos only job is to scan the sky.
40mm UGL with programmable fuze, so you share ammo with the common CUAS solutions.
>picrel
Wouldn’t work, dumb idea. You sound like a homosexual and your shit‘s all moronic.
Steel birdshot out of a 28" barrel