Am I crazy or does this combination actually make a ton of sense? Having to start over my tools from scratch, previously had a mix of Dewalt 20v and corded, but seriously considering this based on the properties of the tools themselves and the being able to switch the heavier duty tools (most of which I had corded before) between corded and cordless seems great.
Pic related is just some of the tools that seem appealing here.
>Having to start over my tools from scratch, previously had a mix of Dewalt 20v and corded,
Looks good to me anon. I have to replace all my power tools every few years. My dad thinks I'm crazy but he's a boomer so lol.
What is your cold pragmatic reason for replacement? Every such choice has testable measurable effects. I add rather than replace so my capability grows while I can have tools at hand at any of my shops or vehicles and if a task is interrupted I can leave them on the spot.
Autism is weakness but if you cannot help it then admit you cannot help it.
There is nothing new to find out in the tool world so post your real use case. M12 are the least effective Milwaukees and my bro (we've near a century professional and DIY experience between us) wishes he'd never bought his. Corded adapters are silly when you can own used corded tools instead which sell for pocket change these days including quality pre-buyout Milwaukee, old Skil worm drive saws etc so we do.
Metabo has a shit selection of tools in the US and there’s nothing the 36V tools will do that Milwaukee 18V or DeWalt 20V or 60V won’t do.
That corded adapter is sort of a meme, you’re slow charging a battery while it’s on the tool, right? So if it’s heavy constant use, the adapter won’t keep up. And the adapter isn’t giving you full 120V/15A power, you will get as much power (current) as the battery can supply. Lithium charges really fast anyway, just swap the damn battery when it dies and buy a decent corded table saw unless you’re getting it specifically for jobsites without power.
Just saying if you’re a burger, that Metabo charger may not be enough of a pro to deal with the con of Metabo HPT’s small tool lineup, it’s not replicating 1800W tools without fat batteries.
Installation driver is sort of a meme unless you have a specific purpose for it, drill and impact driver make more sense. M12 hackzall and bandsaw aren’t going to be shit compared to 18V versions depending what you’re cutting.
Corded adapters are a no go. I had the Dewalt dual battery miter saw and burned up the motor using the corded adapter. Dewalt didnt do anything for me but they did discontinue that saw and do away with the adapter for the next model.
At least 36 Volts is a based multiple of 12 volts.
The others are not really designed by engineers or even typical tool owners, just some MBA/marketing scam artists.
The voltage doesn’t even matter that much, a high voltage lets them use thinner wires. Everything could be 3.7 volts and it would be the same overall power.
The same thing happened in the PC world where they thought MHz meant performance, but then you had processors that could execute 5 instructions per clock.
It’s about being susceptible to trivial marketing scams, these are just the latest ones.
When everyone starts advertising watt-hours ONLY instead of nonsensical, arbitrary and made-up voltages and mAh numbers, the industry is a scam.
As usual, they’ll have to be legislated and fined into compliance to meet acceptable advertising standards.
>the voltage doesn’t even matter
>at least 36V is a multiple of 12V
Every actual brand name power tool battery will have the watt hours printed on it if you look.
> wh printed in 3 pt font hidden somewhere
It’s probably a law then, although likely intended to figure prominently on the outside of the box so consumers won’t have to break out a calculator in home depot.
Even more worthless, in my home depot, all the batteries are behind lock and key so you can’t examine the boxes anymore.
Maybe someone will get around to testing it one day, but if you take dewalt’s dcb612’s 240 Wh claim at face value, they’re selling the capacity at 877% the cost of the lithium ion batteries.
Standardization can’t hit these price gouging, profiteering price gougers fast enough.
I’m on a fixed income, I’ll probably never be able to buy one of those batteries, nor the something like the new ryobi mini snow blower to put it in, so until then I’ll be getting some free exercise to warm up in my house set to 50 degrees so I can pay my utility bill.
Just google it. Or gain a mild understanding of what’s in the batteries and you will understand that DeWalt’s 6.0Ah Flexvolt 60V battery is not 5x the watt hours of a Makita 6.0Ah 18V battery.
And batteries have always been expensive because they make their profit there while having a 7-tool combo kit on sale for $299 as a loss leader to get you stuck on the platform.
They work exactly the same way but… Impact drivers have a 1/4” female hex on the front of them, typically made for driving screws and their torque is normally advertised in in-lbs. Impact wrenches have a square meant for sockets and can be in all different sizes from 1/4” square and 3/8” square that are essentially the same tool as that brand’s impact driver with the exception of the anvil (the part with the square on front), pic related shows that. Impact wrenches are normally advertised in ft-lbs, the “breakaway” number is sort of BS marketing so look at the “fastening torque” for more realistic numbers. 12in-lbs = 1ft-lb, so an 1800in-lb impact driver has the same power as a compact 150ft-lb impact wrench.
Also they make socket adapters to make impact drivers act like a smaller impact wrench, and hex adapters that can make an impact wrench hold 1/4” hex bits like an impact driver, but it will be unmanagable with higher power impact wrenches.
I×U=P
[A]×[V]=[W], [A]×[V]×[h]=[Wh]
6A×60V×1h=360Wh
6A×18V×1h=108Wh
are you moronic? its 3 and 1/3 more actually
Pretty sure the 6Ah is measured at 20V, they're felxvolt batteries not just 60V batteries. See:
https://support.dewalt.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017617497-What-are-the-specifications-for-the-FLEXVOLT-batteries-
By rearranging the cells in series instead of parallel they increase the voltage, but decrease the effective capacity (the watt-hours stay the same of course). Also 18V = 20V = 18.5V nominal 5S lithium ion voltage, plus marketing wank.
> the Ah goes with the lowest voltage to make the battery look as big as possible.
The 12 Ah battery is rated at 240 Wh on the pack itself as some anon suggested. This means dewilt imagines the cells are 4V each, even though the cells say 3.7 V right on them if you take it apart.
So who knows what it really is, dewilt aren’t good with science and facts.
It’s surprising they’re able to get away with claiming the Wh @ 20V in the US. You always see the “20V MAX” because technically they’re 18V nominal but they’re closer to 20V when charged, so it’s 20V maximum. Yurop seems to require them to be more honest and use the nominal voltage, although DeWalt always mentions the nominal voltage somewhere on the pack, I’m sure they use the nominal Wh ratings for transport. Picrel is the US 9.0 Flexvolt, but that shit would be 162Wh rated in Yurop.
12Ah Flexvolt packs are 12Ah @ 18V. It’s the same capacity as the 12.0Ah M18 pack. DeWalt’s “20V MAX” is actually 18V nominal, so the real watt hour calculations are done off of 18V, which is why those batteries are labeled 18V in Yurop and I think their 12V tools in Yurop may be labeled 10.8V (3.6V nominal per cell).
Here’s a DeWalt Flexvolt 12.0Ah box from Yurop with the actual nominal specs… 216Wh. 18V x 12Ah = 216Wh. These batteries are actually 4.0Ah @ 54V.
Metabo is for homosexuals
Makes sense if you spend your weekends in the arcade booth at your local porn store.
Dewalt has everything you need, stop being a moron
+1 on this. If you’re already on DeWalt 20V, stick with that. Maybe a couple M12 tools if you have a need for a special cordless compact tool that isn’t sold in 20V/18V. The DeWalt Atomic hackzall is probably abput the same size as the M12 Fuel but will have more balls. Those new 1.7 PowerStack batteries make a bunch of the Atomic tools just as compact as the 12V versions except you can use them on any of the tons of DeWalt 20V tools.
I vote Dewalt too, they already make all those things you listed.
I replaced all my red brand with metabo, the tools are great. Metabo’s 18v sub compact put out about the same torque as the m12 line, and your able to use the same battery. The 36v ID, HD, SS, and RS, are noticeably powerful. They’ve been deep discounting the tool line over the last 12 months and I managed to acquire 12 tools for about $700.00. This grouping was supplied with 8 extra batteries 4 of which are 8amp multi volt.
I just picked up those metabo hpt subcompact, I love the size and ergonomics, weight of them. don't have a real need for them but I kind of would like a set. no real reason to go 12v these days. I did like the feel of the metabo hpt subcompact better than the DeWalt atomic, but if you're already on DeWalt then they have bigger selection here for sure
why an impact driver vs impact wrench?
Another example of a 1/4” impact driver rated around 2400in-lbs and the 3/8” impact wrench rated at 200ft-lbs. There is literally one part swapped out.
I always say if you’re thinking about your first impact and looking at one of the compact impact wrenches rated around 250ft-lbs or less, just get yourself a 1/4” impact driver instead. It will be super useful for all sorts of screws and smaller nuts and bolts with nutdriver attachments, and you can stick a socket adapter on there and do the same shit as a compact 3/8” impact wrench.
And if you want something with more power for lug nuts and rusty automotive parts, get down on one of the newer brushless mid-torque 1/2” impact wrenches, they getting up to 500ft-lbs+ and are only like 6”-7” long and will do tons of automotive fasteners that are a pain to break poose by hand.
I took advantage of the Home Depot sales this month and chose Makita, how bad did I frick up vs DeWalt?
Makita is like 8 year behind everybody else in technology, their battery compatibility is shit and 6.0Ah is the larger capacity 18V pack you can get, and those are 30R type 18650s so they’re not the best for high power tools, the 4.0 and 5.0 packs would have more balls on saws and big impacts and stuff. The 40V is overpriced for tools that should be 18V if Makita didn’t constrain themselves to 10-cell 18650 packs, and there’s no charger cross-compatibility, let alone tool crossover like some other brands have, especially DeWalt. Can you even buy 5-cell packs from Makita or do you have to run a heavy ass pack on their subcompact tools too? I only ever see the 5.0s and 6.0s and maybe some old stock kits with the 10-cell 3.0s.
They don’t have very good sales and they have a limited selection in the US.
Did I mention their tech is a few years behind Milwaukee and DeWalt and Flex. At least you didn’t go Bosch I guess. Do you still have the receipt?
It’s fine if you just want the basic tools, but at that point you would probably be fine with Craftsman at half the price.
I come from a corded DeWalt setup and got tired of the pile of extension cords, before that I had a couple cordless Black&Decker tools that were fricking dogshit. Is Makita really that bad? I've fricked around with it for about a day or two now and it seems pretty average. I was considering DeWalt but the batteries on all of these are fricking expensive, and I couldn't figure out if the flex volt options were something I could safely ignore. I picked up a couple 18V tools because of the 60ish percent discount.
It will be fine, especially as an upgrade from shitty B&D cordless. Makita is just a little behind. Milwaukee has the best selection and most innovative 18V platform, DeWalt is probably #2. And DeWalt has tons of sales and is sold at so many retailers, so it’s a good choice for people who don’t need the newest electrician or auto tech or HVAC specific tools that Milwaukee has (at a little higher pricetag compared to DeWalt). Makita has less 18V tools than DeWalt, but pricing like Milwaukee, and there’s a cieling to the power Makita can get from their 18V tools because they designed a handful of tools that can’t accept larger battery packs, so they released the 40V which is essentially the same as running a DeWalt 20V/ Milwaukee 18V tool with a 6.0Ah+ battery on it, same exact 10x 21700 cell batteries as the expensive Makita 40V. And Makita doesn’t offer many tools on the 40V lineup, plus the 40V drill and impact driver and some other things are essentially the same as their 18V LXT versions but with a higher price tag.
I wouldn’t spend the money on DeWalt Flexvolt unless you know you need those tools, that’s like tradesmen who want a big cordless angle grinder for heavy metal work. The 18V/20V packs are already putting out 120V corded power. But the nice thing about the Flexvolt stuff is that if you want the 60V grinder for heavy duty work from time to time and drop $150+ on the big Flexvolt battery, you can use that battery on your 20V saws and stuff when you want long runtime.
I wouldn’t run and return the Makita if you’re just getting the basic tools. If you ever get deep into a trade some years down the line, you can get on a new platform that’s better suited. But the Makita stuff is going to cost a little more than DeWalt on average and won’t offer some of the newest features for another year or two after Milwaukee drops it, but it’s whatever. Makita just doesn’t put a ton of effort into R&D and the US market and tradesmen.
Long term I am definitely considering DeWalt, looking at their product line it seemed solid for my framing work. Little pancake compressor and framing nailer kicks ass, and I've been impressed with their corded tools, especially my chop saw. The main turnoff for me was definitely the price without knowing the quality, and because I don't know anyone who uses cordless I can't ask them about quality. I'm building my own home and shop in the next couple years and wanted to have time to get to know the tools before I got started.
>Quality
You should’ve just gone DeWalt then if you wanted it. They’re all so close, and the brands all have a 3+ year warranty. DeWalt, Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, all those contractor grade tools are super similar in durability and performance across the platform, which is why the biggest decision is what color you like and which platform sells the tools you want that work with those batteries.
Makita is not bad. Imagine getting on the city bus with this bad boy clinging tenaciously to your back.
You’d have to beat the chicks off with a stick.
Other mfg just can’t keep up with that kind of backpack power. Decades ahead of the competition. First cordless. First brushless. First cordless microwave. First battery back-pack.
I’m going to brew my coffee and microwave my lunch… ON THE BUS with this bad boy.
why would you ever get on the bus when you can ride around in your makita atv
This is a brilliant idea. EV’s should use p
acks compatible with power tools.
A tesla model 3 would need about 232 of dewalt’s 12 Ah flexvolt batteries at a cost of only $75,000 yankistan shekels.
A real tesla 3 pack cost around $13,500.
Most car packs can be refurbished by just replacing the (very few) bad cells, or “modules” in the pack, so using a power tool battery would make this easy. I’m all too familiar with the ridgid fast blink of death.
As soon as the price of power tool batteries comes down from “anal-rape the willing idiots” levels, I’m going for it.
I'm voting no you didn't make a mistake. Dewalt makes some great tools and in comparison to makita, tool for tool, generally dewalt will have more strength or whatever. Same with milwaukee. But makita in my opinion is always more ergonomically comfortable and enjoyable to use. That's subjective but if you use a tool often, it's important. Reliability seems really high with makita. I've bought a lot of tools and the only one so far that has showed signs of actually being faulty from the manufacturer was a ridgid vacuum that smells like burning plastic when it runs.. i own over a dozen makita power tools and none of them have failed in years of use.. so take from that what you will. Unfortunately i don't know of a very reliable source for data on the reliability of the tools. Like you can look at recalls for cars for a given model year and infer.. There are plenty of good channels on youtube who do objective analysis of tools by brand and by specific tool. AvE on youtube and torquetest channel both seem to do things very objectively.
So far I've liked them, got a leaf blower, drill, impact driver, circular saw, five batteries and two chargers. Leaf blower absolutely chews through batteries but it works really well. Impact driver kicks ass for my framing projects, circular saw is great for rough cuts on 2x4s
Overall I'm happy, but still thinking about DeWalt for product variety.
>milwaukee portaband
i remember this. at my first trade job, i was the poor fricked who had to cut 4"+ pieces of hardened steel rod. the idea is that you grind through the layer of hardened material with a special grinding wheel, then saw through the soft part with the portaband. here's the problem: if the rod is too big, you have to turn it and try to keep the cut going straight. you also have to grind a near perfect circle around the rod.
>but anon, if the shop knew this is how they had to cut it, why wouldn't they figure out a way to rotate it easily?
cheap frickers. that is all. they propped the rod up on 2x4's and said "yeah anon here's your shit, now go grind us some metal".
the whole process looked like this:
>70yo shop owner gets on the forklift, endangers everyone and everything around him for 5 minutes until he gets the rod off the racks and onto the ground
>me, wagie, puts the 2x4s under it to prepare for cutting
>i grab the portaband and grinder, both corded
>take a sharpie to the rod after measuring, rolling on the 2x4s to keep the line "straight"
>grind as much as i can before rolling, about 1/4" deep
>roll the rod, continue grind
>realize it's about as straight as a gay pride parade and have to touch up the grind
>start cutting with portaband next
>get halfway through, catch band on hardened material, teeth get blown out in 3 or 4 spins
>new band
>finish cut
whole process took a couple hours for one section. it was fricking torture. i never cut one too short though, even if it caused some b***hing because they had to use the CBN a little more at the lathe