>According to the study, 92% of the population plan to celebrate Easter in one way or another, only 6% will not celebrate (and 2% were undecided), Interfax report. >Among the adult population of Ukraine, every fifth (19%) plans to go to church on Easter, and 9% plan to take part in the service.
Not today Satan.
I honestly think that the amounts that were being sent were underreported just so Russia isn't told the exact numbers. I would guess that instead of 15 it would be 40
not ru**ian for sure. though isn't this a chinese monkey? chinese also aren't known for their politeness, so this monkey might be the most polite person in china. i'm drunk.
The entire Russian GDP is only twice the size of the DoD budget.
I don't understand how anyone entertains the idea of winning a war of attrition against the west.
I can only see fricking monke now whenever I have to think about Putin in literally any capacity now, thanks /k/. >Sitting at work >Topic of the Russia and leadership comes up >I keep up with the war the most of my colleagues, they ask me a some questions >We get to talking pretty good >Out of nowhere, coworker asks why I keep on smirking and grinning uncontrollably >I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING IT
>Out of nowhere, coworker asks why I keep on smirking and grinning uncontrollably >I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING IT
They probably think you're a serial killer or something bro, smiling uncontrollably while talking about war.
>look guys we killed like 6 dudes!
Out of like 7-10 vehicles you got 6 dudes even if the Bradleys weren’t full of soldiers that still means you got only 2 crews worth of people. Out of possibly 10. Once again Western tech complete BTFOs Russian dogshit even when it “lost”.
Now post the ukranian burial ground where they put all those civillians you killed you claim as soldiers, then be embarassed once you realize Ruskie losers already lost 500k + in deaths alone.
>That shit costs money that comes out of my check every week
More like your grandfather's checks from decades ago. >instead of going to improving infrastructure
Your local government isn't going to improve infrastructure you fat moron, and even if they were you'd vote for the candidate promising spending cuts.
So how much of this stuff is brand new, and how much of it is stuff that's been sitting in cold storage since the GWoT started winding down?
It's hilarious that we have so much of this bullshit lying around that we're giving it away to police departments (namely things like MRAPs and APCs)
new: missiles for nasams and himars, probably 155mm shells
old: everything else. there was a picture of a motor from an expended HARM that was stamped 1987.
>NASAMS
I've saw somewhere, can't recall where, that they were sending AIM-120Bs along with Cs, the Bs are definitely old stock and the Cs are probably older shit too.
Less certain about GMLRS but they're probably picking from the older ones to renew our inventory.
Yeah, turns out all you need is a computer to translate and the AIM-120's take Soviet SAM instructions as if they are OG Buk missiles.
This was found a like 1~2 months ago and everyone is in the process of checking how many working obsolete AIM-120's they got so they send them over before they rust in storage.
>This was found a like 1~2 months ago
Not really. What was found was that Poland had already done the homework with a domestic program to fit AIM-7s to a Kub launcher.
So the program can be repurposed into fitting RIM-7 Sea Sparrow to Buks, which skips years of work.
These things are moronic. They were designed for urban suppression and coin, not warfare on the steppe. Giving these to Ukraine is moronic. These things have a huge profile, plus their weight and being a wheeled vehicle…it’s a literal coffin on wheels.
>I bet neither of you pay taxes. That shit costs money that comes out of my check every week instead of going to improving infrastructure.
it was never going there anyway, Michigan is still permafricked.
That said this shit doesn't cost us anything we're giving them "millions in aid" but it's the cumalative sum of the itemized reports. I.E. we're giving them equipment worth that much, but not pure cash, minus what it costs to move it there, which is nothing, and it costs us less overtime because we're no longer paying to maintain them.
lol it was all going to go towards trooning kids and feeding Black folk and you goddamn know it, at least building tanks for someone elses' war keeps people employed
Pretty strong message US is sending here. They pretty much saying that the number of US hardware they give to Ukies isn't a matter of if they have them available but a number of trained Ukrainian soldiers who can operate them.
You do have a point. It is stupid that we give this shit away for free. By comparison in WW2, we lent our military aid to the bongs with the understanding that they either give it back or pay for it >bongs made their last repayment for lend-lease in like 2000 and something
So, yes, that is stupid.
But, emptying the boneyards of surplus that is just sitting there gathering dust is not the worst way to use that equipment.
>destabilizing Russia is a net win
No, not really. We have been down this road with Libya/Syria/Iraq, it was a shitshow and none of them had massive nuclear arsenals. Getting Russia to behave by teaching them a lesson in manners is one thing, causing the collapse of a nation of 150 million perpetually asshurt nuclear armed peasants is not a smart move.
There needs to be an ROI. I dont see one. So, unless there is an agreement for Ukraine to at least repay the cost of newly manufactured equipment, or, agreements that give the US options on Ukrainian oil and gas. This is a shit deal.
Americans have been spending a shitton of money on the MIC for decades. The ROI is that finally we get to see our money doing what it was supposed to this whole time: murder Russians. We got blueballed the whole cold war, but not anymore. Enjoy Hell, Ivan.
>We have been down this road with Libya/Syria/Iraq
But the US attempted to stabilize Iraq. The US very much built up a new Iraqi state. It was the Ba'ath party remnants, sectarian grudges and Iranian interference that destabilized Iraq. >none of them had massive nuclear arsenals
The Soviet Union had a massive nuclear arsenal. We still destabilized it. >perpetually asshurt nuclear armed peasants
The peasants don't have access to permissible action links.
Anon, the reality is that the nuclear arsenal is under control of corrupt officers who'll suddenly have the biggest bargaining chip they could ask for. Nobody's going to sacrifice their own lives, their children's lives, their grandchildren's lives just to prove their loyalty to daddy Putin. They're gonna trade the keys for retirement in some island.
>But the US attempted to stabilize Iraq. The US very much built up a new Iraqi state. It was the Ba'ath party remnants, sectarian grudges and Iranian interference that destabilized Iraq.
The US literally created sectarianism in Iraq and straight up fired all civil servants, soldiers, police officers, etc affiliated with the Bathist regime. Basically the US told a large part of the Iraqi population to go frick itself while putting Shias in charge of the country.
And that's after the US basically fricked up the Iraqi economy with sanctions and later the infrastructure with bombings. Iraq was a fairly well developed state with a functional society, especially considering the part of the world they're situated in.
>The US literally created sectarianism in Iraq and straight up fired all civil servants, soldiers, police officers, etc affiliated with the Bathist regime.
It was a massive oversight but you can't say the US created sectarianism. Get out of here with this American Exceptionalism but in reverse. >fricked up the Iraqi economy with sanctions
Oh boo hoo >Iraq was a fairly well developed state with a functional society
If you tally the deaths indirectly caused by US intervention (which is bullshit) and the number of people killed by Saddam to enforce his regime, Saddam is only like 10% short. The developed state murdered almost as many people as the messy post-2003 Iraq. Go frick yourself. Your "functional society" was as deadly as a goddam warzone.
I get it. I truly do. I used to think like you. But I've come to terms with the fact that I parroted all the anti-war propaganda I could find during the Bush years because I fricking hated the guy. Then during the Obama years I also hated his guts so I listened to a lot of crackpots. But I'm done with entertaining the thought that Iraq was a shining beacon of peace and stability.
>A guy who intends to end the world doesn't give a frick if a state exists or not. He could just launch right now.
He cant because there is a command chain with checks and balances. You remove the state you remove the command chain.
Black person what the frick do the checks and balances do?
The chain of command cannot react in time to a rogue officer with the ability to launch nukes by himself.
Removing the chain of command also removes the way to authorize a launch, unless the officer in question was already able to launch by himself.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>It was a massive oversight but you can't say the US created sectarianism.
They literally put a sect of Islamists in charge of the country.
> Your "functional society" was as deadly as a goddam warzone.
Iraqis had access to free education, healthcare and public services. They had a sizeable middle class and divisions based on religion were not a problem in Iraq. They had lower crime rates than many areas of the US, and even the average homicide rate was lower than the US. People who got fricked up were opponents of the regime and Kurds. It was a classic authoritarian state where loyalty to the government was the most important value, above religious, ethnic or cultural beliefs. If anything they were Arab and pan-Arab nationalist. They were as far from sectarian as you can get in that part of the world.
I didn't say Iraq was a shining beacon of peace and stability but it was a fairly stable well developed country for the region it was situated in. It wasn't the war torn shithole it is today. Everything happening in Iraq, from Iranian influence to ISIS, was the direct result of US actions that toppled the Iraqi government, installed a sectarian puppet regime and then left leaving behind a power vacuum and a state ill equipped to tackle with any of it.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>They literally put a sect of Islamists in charge of the country.
Because of... get this... the other sect being over-represented in the Saddam regime and losing their jobs when said government was toppled.
Then because the Ba'ath party remnants were fricking sore losers they fanned the flames of hatred to get back at the US. >Iraqis had access to free education, healthcare and public services
So does every nation in Europe and even commie shitholes. >divisions based on religion were not a problem in Iraq
Just like Yugoslavia under Tito. No divisions, until the guy keeping the country held together with spit and duct tape fricking dies.
If you need a particular state to keep people from murdering each other and no substitute can help, the divisions are there already. You're sitting on a powder keg. >They had lower crime rates than many areas of the US
May I remind you that you're on /k/? We've been through this bullshit argument thousands of times. The US is more comparable to Venezuela or Brazil when talking about said high crime locations. >People who got fricked up were opponents of the regime and Kurds. It was a classic authoritarian state where loyalty to the government was the most important value
Again, this is /k/. Are you really arguing "obey the government and everything will be fine"? >it was a fairly stable well developed country for the region it was situated in.
People say that about almost every country in the region.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>Iraqis had access to free education, healthcare and public services. They had a sizeable middle class and divisions based on religion were not a problem in Iraq. They had lower crime rates than many areas of the US, and even the average homicide rate was lower than the US. People who got fricked up were opponents of the regime and Kurds
lol, classic case of brown people crying about the evil white man taking their rwanda from them
11 months ago
Anonymous
Ahh yes I'm sure the government that reinvented WWI in the desert had such a wonderous land full of such things.
The ROI is that we establish the precedent that nuclear powers can't just annex whatever territory they please without fear of repercussions. That, and solidifying our relationship with one of the largest manufacturing/agricultural powers in Europe, decreasing global reliance on Russian exports, and reaffirming the utility/benefits of having alliances like NATO. Isolationist policies would be great if we existed in a vacuum, but that's not how the world works. Events on the other side of the world can and will affect everyone eventually, whether you want them to or not.
The ROI is pretty clear though. See those BRICStards acting high and mighty? It's about time they get in their head they're shithole countries compared to the West, and will stay so for the next 50 years. As a matter of fact, Russia in all its stupidity made it so the West will still rule the world for at least the next 100 years, probably more. As it should be. That's some fricking good ROI.
The original Lend-Lease said that any intact equipment would have to be returned after the war, or if a nation wanted to keep certain items, they would have to pay us for them. Even then, we applied a 90% depreciation rate (as none of the shit was still mint-in-the-box by 1945), and treated the debt is if it was a loan. The reason why the Brits only paid off the last Lend-Lease installment in 2006 is that we were only charging them 2% interest, so it made sense to only make the minimum annual payment and instead focus on servicing other debts.
The Russians on the other hand? They didn't pay us a dime until 1972, and we had to agree to write off 75% of the (inflation-adjusted) principal and ALL of the interest. So leaving aside all the fuel, munitions, food, and other consumables, plus all the destroyed/damaged equipment and vehicles (which didn't need to be repaid under the terms of Lend-Lease) and just considering the goods and equipment the Russians chose to keep, we gave them the same 90% discount as the Brits, but they still only paid us a quarter of what they owed us in 1945. In the end, the US had to eat 22 years of unpaid interest and still only got 2.5 cents on the dollar.
Why the hell did we agree to that? Because the Soviet Union was in the middle of a famine in 1972, and we had to settle the books before they could import food from us. We gave the Russians Lend-Lease assistance to stop the Nazis from killing all of them, then we forgave their debts to prevent them from starving to death--- AND THE FRICKERS HATE US TO THIS DAY.
There was one quote from Obama saying how other nations would not ask help from Russia or China but instead choose USA for assistance. Other countries may b***h about the USA but we're a better alternative then the other two shithole countries with actual imperial expansion history.
>That stuff costs money to replace.
Old stuff gets replaced anyway. The US isn't storing military equipment in perpetuity. It either gets sold at a massive loss to allies, straight up donated, or money has to be allocated for scrapping. Fun fact, armored vehicles can be dumped in the sea to help grow coral reefs.
This argument is invalid because older equipment in storage is replaced by the current equipment when new vehicles are bought. Stuff can't serve indefinitely. >focus on our own country
Isolationism doesn't work. Unfortunately, if you want to improve the US you have to maintain good relations with everyone else. Focusing on the US would paradoxically result in a huge economic contraction.
Anon, those stuff are already paid for years ago. Even then, the DOD has a budget of their own and this cost a small fraction of it. What we are spending now is insignificant compared to what the United states spends on a annual basis.
>Not even within the realm of what I said.
You said that the US should stop supporting Ukraine with weapons, which will lead to its total occupation. How is it not connected?
And don't forget, when russian occupy Ukraine, you're going to have consider russia + Ukraine as your rivals.
Looking forward to see your answer.
>You said that the US should stop supporting Ukraine with weapons,
I did not say that, read things before responding to them.
[...] >Don't see a solid return for this money
It's going directly to American workers.
Borrowing money to pay people is a very bad idea. I want economic value from Ukraine. Either they keep the oil and gas and use the proceeds to pay debts, or they let Exxon move in when this is all over.
>And I agree, we should supply Ukraine with everything they need to win.
Yes. But they have to pay for it.
My beef is that I am a debt hawk. I hate the fact that we have deficit spending. I hate it so fricking much it hurts. There are lots of ways to cut the deficit, this would be a drop in the ocean by comparison, but the way to kill the deficit is by a thousand cuts. This is one of them.
Sometimes you have to compromise.
Letting russia to consume Ukraine would lead to a significantly more losses than what the US is doing now.
Btw, Ukraine is paying for it.
>Btw, Ukraine is paying for it.
To my knowledge they arent. There are direct transfers which they dont pay for and the payments they do make is with money given to them by the US.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Aren't they getting themself in debt for the delivered equipment? I mean not 100% but for some?
I’m right there with you. With this we see direct results for relatively small dollars. The same thing can’t be said about 90% of govt spending. I’d much much rather cut all EBT and section ape and double Ukrainian aid to kill ziggers
>Your entertainment is not an ROI. The bottom line is what I care about and I dont see a solid return for this money. Humbling Russia is obviously important but its not worth diving deeper into debt for.
It's literally cold war left overs. Just because you put a price tag on the deliveries doesn't mean the US is paying that amount. this is the deal of the century.
This is what I wish so many right wing folks would understand. Yes each Bradley is valued at X amount, that doesn't mean we're paying that price right now. IRL isn't an RTS. Those Bradleys were probably paid for by your parents or even your grandparents in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. We are shipping a bunch of fully paid off and thoroughly used IFVs over to help a new friend frick up a long time adversary without officially putting even a single pair of boots on the ground in country. We're also fricking over China because Russia was their only ally worth a shit, was. The value of this lend lease is unbelievably good even if we don't end up with our very own ports in the black sea freshly leased to us for the next century, which I'd bet is pretty much guaranteed. What is absolutely guaranteed is another new NATO member when this is all done and over with.
>replace
Anon no one is going to replace Gavin’s from the 60s while other things like missiles from the 80s will be replaced anyway because they’re reaching the end of their shelf life.
>solid return for this money
US companies are getting new orders from all over the world. This thing is straight up creating new jobs in the US. Just consider all the countries which jumped on the F-35 wagon since or Polands order for 500 HIMARS.
>The US never focused on collapsing the USSR
Both sides did intend to frick with each other. While the collapse seemed to come out of nowhere, the nuclear arsenals was what promoted the use of destabilization instead of direct conflict. >It just takes one ideologically minded butthole to end the world
And it only takes one person to value the world, his family and his friends to shoot the officer trying to start nuclear holocaust by himself. >Right now that doesn't happen because they have a functioning state.
A guy who intends to end the world doesn't give a frick if a state exists or not. He could just launch right now. He'd never face any true consequences from his own state because the American warhead would arrive to his location first.
>A guy who intends to end the world doesn't give a frick if a state exists or not. He could just launch right now.
He cant because there is a command chain with checks and balances. You remove the state you remove the command chain.
>debt
Anon you're way overestimating how much national debt actually matters. Supposedly the US debt was crippling when I was a wee lad and clearly it wasn't.
>We are now in uncharted territory.
And have been for over a decade just fine, and again, the panic from people like you started way before we hit this uncharted territory. Our debt isn't going to collapse or cripple the US in any significant ways, it's just something for fiscal conservatives to use as a soap box like the idea that climate change is going to wipe out humanity and end all life on earth.
Not that I'm saying I'm opposed to fiscal conservatism, we should spend less to take the burden off of tax payers, but the debt isn't a reason I feel that way.
10 Strykers + 15 Bradley (plus a whole load of other shit) @ only $325M demonstrates how easily the US could supply Ukraine with armored vehicles. This is basically a battalion's worth of equipment, you could probably stand up a brigade for $1.5-2 billion, about 0.2% of the military budget.
That said, the US needs to be doing a lot more to train the Ukies. A two-week training camp isn't going to cut it, they should be training tens of thousands of mobiks for months to the point they're actually comparable to US grunts. That would make even more of a difference than any amount of Bradleys.
>That said, the US needs to be doing a lot more to train the Ukies.
It’s an issue of time vs needing personnel. Yes spending months is much better. But in a lot of cases someone trained at 70% available now is better than someone at 100% a couple months later. You hit practical diminishing returns at some point
I don't think most of the AFU is at 70% compared to, say, US Army, it's optimistically more like 30% on average especially if you include TDF. And especially officers need more training, and in many cases these units would literally be improved by taking away their officers and replacing them with basically anyone else.
>I don't think most of the AFU is at 70% compared to, say, US Army,
Certainly not. The 70% was a random number to prove a point. My point is if it takes x weeks to get them combat serviceable that’s likely more valuable than x+y weeks to get them “perfect”. Time is a valuable resource.
The amount of time to train and what is serviceable depends on the equipment and the soldiers use, but in general I can see the appeal of having good enough now vs great later.
Has it ever occurred to you that aid money IS spending on our own country? Israel is israelite central but every dollar we send them has to be countered by spending in their regional rivals, many of whom are ostensibly our allies and we couldn't check militarily without a big dustup...in a lot of cases, the money they have to spend to compete is literally spent on American weapons. Money to Africa keeps their minerals flowing to us instead of the chinks, which is becoming an increasingly significant problem. Money and materiel sent to Ukraine means we get to kill Russians without having to deal with diplomatic blowback from allied nations who want to buy Russian gas. If you don't know how the game is played, lower your tone. Our foreign policy is far from perfect but "huurrrr duuurr isolationism" is a moron take, a moron strategy, and 9 times out of 10 it comes from a thirdie, so you can translate it as "nnnnooooo stop doing things that beat us!"
russians are very good at this, yes.
i mean where else but russia could you have commercials for joining the army because you're poor as frick and actually dying in the commercial so your family members get free lada's
Ukraine aid isn't contributing in any significant way to US debt. It's a drop in the bucket. If you want a balanced budget you have to cut actual military spending as well as entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. Hope this helps.
>Ukraine aid isn't contributing in any significant way to US debt
It 100% is spending has increased massively during this war do you not understand how the militarily industrial complex works >balanced budget you have to cut actual military spending as well as entitlements like Social Security
Yes we need to cut a lot out of spending but a lot of that is the 1.2 trillion we spend each year on our mill tray and private contractors
The military budget up $40 billion from 2021, or about 5%. Even if every cent of that was attributable to Ukraine, (it's not, the military is doing a ton of new stuff unrelated to Ukraine), it would still be a drop in the bucket. The total US budget is $6 trillion, that $40 billion nothing. Even including the value of all the air packages together is still nothing compared to a federal budget in the trillions.
The us send 112bn alone to Ukraine and its not just the new money its all the only before hand were spending trillions of dollars each year on corrupt government sectors
Only $46 billion of that was in military aid, the rest was basically paying the Ukrainian governments' bills, which I agree is more questionable and should be more on the Europeans. So realistically the US is spending maybe 0.5% of the budget on Ukrainian military aid, (probably less this year unless there's more huge spending packages), this is not causing national debt to rise in any significant way.
The best part of cutting medicare and social security is we could do that without actually cutting them by letting people who rely on them work without fear of losing their gibs forever. If I could work without fear of losing my safety net that I absolutely do need to have I would be at work right now instead of posting on PrepHole and make enough that my full benefits would be on hold. I'd also have private insurance and be paying taxes. Part of the problem is if you actually attempt succeed in life you lose your safety net. Once you're actually booted off social security especially good luck getting back on until you hit retirement age. If it just went on hold with no backpay after you hit a certain income and could be fired right back up if that income went away I guarantee a frickload of people would be working. Being trapped in poverty fricking sucks.
Again, you cut it without actually cutting it by allowing people to succeed instead of trapping them in poverty. You MUST allow people to put themselves in a position where they don't actually need it anymore without losing access to it if shit happens. I am one of the people that rely on it. I don't want to directly rely on federal funbux but I really want that safety net there to catch me if I fall because I really need it to make sure I don't fall straight into a 6-8 foot deep hole. I'm fricking tired of being a NEET leeching off the system because it's my only remotely safe option. I WANT to pay my fricking taxes and live well because my income isn't less than a part timer at minimum wage each month.
A lot of people don't try to do better for themselves BECAUSE they seriously risk losing the benefits they need if they do. Medicare is actually one of the easier ones to get back on. Social Security on the other hand will try to declare a limbless blind and deaf guy not disabled and fight every step of the way once you're officially off it.
Actually a fan of having a government option alongside the regular private market. You price it in such a way that it offers a basic level of coverage for a reasonable amount forcing companies to compete with it and have premiums paid when you do your taxes. This allows companies to offer better and worse levels of coverage and still set their own prices but they can't go nuts because you can always just sign up for the federal plan. Nobody's going to pay more for worse coverage than the federal plan offers. In turn this forces medical providers, pharma especially, to reign in their pricing because now insurance isn't going to vomit out obscene amounts of money so freely. It also means premiums are paid instead of just using taxes and it's also opt-in. That shouldn't even touch medicare/medicade. Also actively reign in things like charging $100 for a bottle of gatorade through anti-gouging legislation, there's no fricking excuse for such blatant and egregious gouging of patients.
You don't just save money, you actively make it, and not in the "money printer go BRRRRRR" sort of way.
lmao i'm not even an american and i can smell the third worlder anger on this post. you're probably delusional enough to think that the US lost militarily, as in they lost the fight, rather than just losing political will to keep curbstomping insurgents and leaving the country on their own terms lmao.
though i will agree the evacuation was botched and that was very funny to watch.
none of this makes you white however.
>Bradleys on American streets would fix US problems
I have read this novel >The Last Centurion is a memoir of one possible future, a world that is a darkling mirror of our own.
>DEDICATION: >To everyone who has ever felt they were looking out over Hadrian's Wall while Rome crumbled behind them.
the author is an ex-paratrooper with a biology degree and in this 2008 published book of his he tells a story which main plot points include a pandemic spreading out from China in 2019 as well as the protagonist properly destroying an equipment depot hes in charge of on pullout from middle-east to prevent weapons from falling into enemy hands
>John Ringo is considered the originator of the anti-political correctness slogan "get woke, go broke"
>stupid homosexual moron thinks national debt is the same as personal debt
MONEY ISN'T REAL
NATIONS ARE IMMORTAL
GOVERNMENTS HAVE CONTROL OVER THE FIAT SUPPLY
>We're in insane amounts of debt
literally so fricking what lol, this is the kind of statement made by someone who gets all their knowledge about the world from boomer news networks
we always are. the national debt never goes down. only proles dont understand this.
When idiots say "muh debt" they're doing the typical little person thing of thinking about it from a civilian perspective, like credit card debt.
Instead of being smart and realizing its corporate style debt, where debt is leveraged to enact further gains. That debt ebbs away as gains are made, and its paid off and new debt is revolved in to service further gains.
Of course the average moron saying "muh debt" doesn't understand this because debt has only ever been a millstone for them. Even a regular homeowner can understand the power of debt when their house accrues equity and out paces the cost of the debt. If you bought your house 5 years ago or so its easily worth twice the debt you took on to get it.
Its pretty shameful just how economically illiterate people are. Nevermind the fact that all this "aid" is usually dollar values of the equipment, which was already made and spent decades ago. Frick, we'd spend even more to decommission or mothball them.
>implying russia is working against "Zog and globalism"
Antisemitism along with holocoast denial are outright illegal, criticizing the government's choices in the war is illegal, exposing high level corruption with evidence will literally get your killed or gravely wounded.
But no, they beat up a homosexual on TV once or twice so I guess they must be the savior of the white race.
Contrarians should hang, every last one of them
Pretty sure he wants to join both NATO and the EU after this. That'd be a pretty stupid ass move on his part as there's a good shot it'd kill that idea stone dead.
>pay to disarm the explosives and scrap vehicles >buying new ones anyway >send old ones to Ukraine to kill Russians as they were designed to
The aid is literally bookkeeping. Barely any money moves, and that which does, subsidizes manufacturing in the US. have a nice day immediately you unpatriotic homosexual.
>improving infrastructure
Why is that a problem for military procurements? We don't have a spending problem with infrastructure. We have a procurement problem instead. How about you vote for someone that is actually willing to put money into projects that is not useless?
People are moronic and the U.S. system of healthcare is a mix of government and private healthcare. Its less about the money and more about how that money is spent. In america, its not that hard to not get in debt because of medical bills. However, people are too moronic to own insurance or find the right channels to help them.
If people are too moronic to do this why doesnt goverment does anything with it and provide proper education on such things. This sound like malice on goverment side
If people are poor or have a disability, they can get government benefits. If people want to go private, there is a market place for it that has competing companies or they can get insurance from work. The lack of education and involvement has to do with lobbyists and people not liking governments to get involved with their lives. People are too stubborn and lobbyists lobby their shit onto politicians to keep the money flowing.
If i have painful tooth and no insurance what are chances i will get treated in USA without losing arm and leg? Insurance should be provided to everyone instantly, it is required in my country. How come there are people who do not have insurance in your country. That's impossible
11 months ago
Anonymous
It seems they tie it to people's jobs. Which makes absolutely sense at all, why on earth is your healthcare your employer's problem. Its what they are used to and they don't get much exposure to other countries even on TV let alone in person so its hard for them to imagine this isn't How Its Meant To Be.
Let 'em get on with it really, its a good sector to invest in and farm their misery.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>insurance should provided to everyone
Really the cost should be so low that insurance shouldn't be necessary, but unfortunately due to how power the current medical establishment has over itself costs are wildly inflated. And it's not just the insurance companies, it's the people who run hospitals and shit too.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>it's the people who run hospitals and shit too.
If every hospital admin was hanged tomorrow all then cost issues would go away
>. This sound like malice on goverment side
No shit. What world do you live in that the government is your friend? Show me one example of this ever being the case.
Because everything costs more in America.
Average doctor salary in Germany is €70k
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/germany-doctor-salary-SRCH_IL.0,7_IN96_KO8,14.htm
US is $200k
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/doctor-salary-SRCH_KO0,6.htm
Drugs cost more, too. Pharmaceutical companies charge euros less because they make the bulk of their profit in America.
The two biggest things America could do to lower healthcare costs is to allow anybody from a developed country with a medical degree to immigrate, and to allow any pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, etc. to be imported into the US.
'On average, medical malpractice insurance costs $7,500 per year.
Surgeons tend to pay between $30k and $50k in annual premiums. Other medical professionals typically pay between $4k and $12k per year, depending on their specialty and area of expertise.
Malpractice insurance costs work out to about 3.2% of most physicians’ incomes.'
https://physiciansthrive.com/malpractice-insurance/costs/
You people are confused about the real-world war goals of the participants. There’s a long-term project by the US / West to cut Russian energy exports to Europe off using Ukraine’s large shale deposits. What makes this such a strong option is that Ukraine also has all of the export infrastructure for that trade which they inherited from the USSR — so if the West can work with Ukraine to develop those deposits it’s feasible to simply cut out Russia entirely. Nordstream was a play by Russia to bypass Ukraine for some security but the US fought hard to kill it politically; Putin understood that we just wouldn’t let him have that. Anyway. The US landed a major milestone in that project by getting Ukraine to sign a deal with Shell (and Chevron?) to develop some major shale deposits in the East of Ukraine. That was November of 2013…what happened a few months later? That was Putin’s counter-move, military force — and it worked; Shell / Chevron pulled out of the deal due to proximity to a war zone. But that was a temporary solution for as long as the West had a handle on Ukraine there would be no market security for Russian energy exports. Putin needs the European market for real European money, not cut-rate sales to poor countries. Energy is the very basis for Putin’s power system and the fabulous wealth of his inner circle. They only care about about gas and oil, everything can go to hell; but that’s made them susceptible to having those market cut off. Everything Putin’s done in Ukraine for the last 10+ years is over this issue. It’s an existential threat to not only his great wealth but also his power structure as a whole. That’s why he’s hellbent on a regime-change no matter the cost.
Actually moronic lmao did you think we would believe that shit? Name a single russian manufacturer that exports anything, and no vodka and energy and prostitutes don’t count
>"No, we do not [think about the cost of borrowing for the USA itself]. In other words, that's... fiscal dominance. IF we were constrained in our monetary policy by the budgetary situation of the USA (and we're not, we're clearly not) the path we're on is not sustainable ... "but the level of debt that we have is not unsustainable!" "Is not" is sustainable, put it that way. So we don't think about interest costs when we make monetary policy, we think about maximum employment and price stability." — Fed Chairman Powell, March 7 2023.
Dead inventory that would otherwise cost money to dispose of or occupy warehousing space and maintenance (like the over produced anti-IED trucks) being sent to fight a belligerent is win-win. Hell, Russia doing what it's doing is helping squeeze out pinkos in Europe and places like the IMF shitting themselves over not having LIBOR to lead US foreign policy around by the nose now that the SOFR switch is being finalized.
why is this such a common tactic among pro-russians?, just steering the subject towards the american economy to demoralize /k/ or something, as if that would ever actually work, and even if it did, far less americans supported the later years of the middle east interventions yet it went for years more anyway
Russian gdp is mostly extracting ressources. Its an african state but instead of extraction company being owned by the west, they are owned by oligarchs.
I pay more taxes than you, and just so you know. Outside of the shells all the gear sent is 20+ years old at this point and bought in the late 80s/90s. DoD would have used or given these out anyway as part of procurement and rotation. Ukies have 0 new gear outside of NODS which are pennies on the DoD dollar. Such is life when your country has the biggest war machine and never stops changing
Military industrial complex doing what it's meant to.
JUST KEEP PUMPIN' EM OUT BOIZ
Y-you can't do that. It's against the rules. This is unprofessional cheating by HATO
Did the ukrainians respawn as well
The crews survived since they weren't riding BMP-2s.
BMP means IFV in Slavspeak.
>The crews survived since they weren't riding BMP-2s.
So why were there corpses strewn on the ground around these killed Bradleys?
No, Satan, they never died.
Can't respawn when you never got killed LMAO. Western crew survivability standards mogging russian garbage yet again.
You gotta die first to respawn.
Yes, NATO vehicles can be destroyed without turning the crews into hamburger, you didn't know?
Those souls are not yours today satan, get over it
No but the Russians didn't either.
>ITT: Vatnik learns that a vehicle being disabled doesn't mean everyone in it has to die
>According to the study, 92% of the population plan to celebrate Easter in one way or another, only 6% will not celebrate (and 2% were undecided), Interfax report.
>Among the adult population of Ukraine, every fifth (19%) plans to go to church on Easter, and 9% plan to take part in the service.
Not today Satan.
So long as the crews survive, replacing the vehicles is easy. Westetn design doctrine doing the heavylifting.
>Bradley BMPs
Battle maneuvering pods.
BMP is itself an acronym for the Slavic term for infantry fighting vehicle.
BMP-1 is like if they US named the Bradley IFV-1
Big ‘Merican Penis
Boyevaya Mashina Pyekhoty
Boyevaya = combat/fighting
Mashina = machine/car/vehicle
Pyekhoty = infantry/foot soldier
BMP = fighting vehicle infantry
>10
>15
stop being so stingy burgers, let's kick those vatnik homosexuals off the face of the earth for good.
I honestly think that the amounts that were being sent were underreported just so Russia isn't told the exact numbers. I would guess that instead of 15 it would be 40
Burgers are such miserable wretches, but Ukraine can't chose allies.
D-did HATO not get the memo?
Rusia saars took out a leo, the war is over.
That's a fricking cool monkey right there
GOOD MORNING SAARS
damn putin got fat
Alright that's a pretty chill monkey.
I see your monke and raise you another.
He's so polite
not ru**ian for sure. though isn't this a chinese monkey? chinese also aren't known for their politeness, so this monkey might be the most polite person in china. i'm drunk.
That monkey looks like he might be a bit depressed. I hope he's happy.
homie looks like he is starting to have da diabeetus
The entire Russian GDP is only twice the size of the DoD budget.
I don't understand how anyone entertains the idea of winning a war of attrition against the west.
NO SAARS DO NOT REDEEM BRADLEY BENCHOD PUNJABI BIOTCH
Yes, I will file my United States taxes in a timely manner to support vatnig killing operations in Ukraine
noooooo not my .0000085 Mr. Biden please end this war my wallet cannot afford such expense
>he thinks his taxes actually pay for anything in a FIAT monetary system
Wake up moron, money isn't real. They just agree to print more and then put digits in a computer to 'print' it. Inflation is the result.
Only Russia is allowed to have unlimited tanks. troony NAFO cheating supplies are gay and nazi. Use only what I say! OOK OOK NOOK REEEEEEEE!
The funny thing about Monke putin is that it looks better than actual putin.
I can only see fricking monke now whenever I have to think about Putin in literally any capacity now, thanks /k/.
>Sitting at work
>Topic of the Russia and leadership comes up
>I keep up with the war the most of my colleagues, they ask me a some questions
>We get to talking pretty good
>Out of nowhere, coworker asks why I keep on smirking and grinning uncontrollably
>I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING IT
>Out of nowhere, coworker asks why I keep on smirking and grinning uncontrollably
>I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DOING IT
They probably think you're a serial killer or something bro, smiling uncontrollably while talking about war.
You lads might be onto something.
>sociopath
that's why you're alone
Monke!
Every time I see Putin on TV or hear his name I imagine that goddamn monkey staring into space. It makes me laugh so much.
Imagine waking up every day and your fragile elderly face is swollen to these proportions
>trying to falsefalg another dead zigger pile
LMAO
>look guys we killed like 6 dudes!
Out of like 7-10 vehicles you got 6 dudes even if the Bradleys weren’t full of soldiers that still means you got only 2 crews worth of people. Out of possibly 10. Once again Western tech complete BTFOs Russian dogshit even when it “lost”.
Now post the ukranian burial ground where they put all those civillians you killed you claim as soldiers, then be embarassed once you realize Ruskie losers already lost 500k + in deaths alone.
Nice try vatnik shill, Russia lost 6 million
>Bradley BMPs
rofl
And best part most of those Bradley's were mobility kills so there a good chance to recover them later and fix them up
Is the Bradley still SECOND TO NONE or have Strykers overshadowed it?
Wait were any Strykers destroyed yet?
According to Oryx, nothing so far
None that we've seen so far.
Yes yes I am also of demoralized, please premier biden stop this war of hafo aggression
THE TANKS HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE THE MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT ITS GONE POOF ITS A FUGAZI what is with you morons
>wasting tax dollars
you arent american and none of these vehicles were being used anyway.
But the war in Afghanistan ended two years ago Anon
Anon these were write offs that were penciled in for replacement. We are upgrading our gear and giving the old shit to Ukraine
post your wall outlet if you want me to take you seriously. also your state taxes go to local infrastructure.
>That shit costs money that comes out of my check every week
More like your grandfather's checks from decades ago.
>instead of going to improving infrastructure
Your local government isn't going to improve infrastructure you fat moron, and even if they were you'd vote for the candidate promising spending cuts.
So how much of this stuff is brand new, and how much of it is stuff that's been sitting in cold storage since the GWoT started winding down?
It's hilarious that we have so much of this bullshit lying around that we're giving it away to police departments (namely things like MRAPs and APCs)
new: missiles for nasams and himars, probably 155mm shells
old: everything else. there was a picture of a motor from an expended HARM that was stamped 1987.
>NASAMS
I've saw somewhere, can't recall where, that they were sending AIM-120Bs along with Cs, the Bs are definitely old stock and the Cs are probably older shit too.
Less certain about GMLRS but they're probably picking from the older ones to renew our inventory.
Yeah, turns out all you need is a computer to translate and the AIM-120's take Soviet SAM instructions as if they are OG Buk missiles.
This was found a like 1~2 months ago and everyone is in the process of checking how many working obsolete AIM-120's they got so they send them over before they rust in storage.
>This was found a like 1~2 months ago
Not really. What was found was that Poland had already done the homework with a domestic program to fit AIM-7s to a Kub launcher.
So the program can be repurposed into fitting RIM-7 Sea Sparrow to Buks, which skips years of work.
It was stamped 1989 actually--- but that was the expiration date for the manufacturer's warranty.
These things are moronic. They were designed for urban suppression and coin, not warfare on the steppe. Giving these to Ukraine is moronic. These things have a huge profile, plus their weight and being a wheeled vehicle…it’s a literal coffin on wheels.
No, the MRAP has its origins in African bush warfare
>big empty spaces with lots of landmines
Kinda like Ukraine, no?
What do you think the M and R in MRAP stand for?
If you post a W2 and a gun I will post mine and I bet I paid more taxes than you
>I bet neither of you pay taxes. That shit costs money that comes out of my check every week instead of going to improving infrastructure.
it was never going there anyway, Michigan is still permafricked.
That said this shit doesn't cost us anything we're giving them "millions in aid" but it's the cumalative sum of the itemized reports. I.E. we're giving them equipment worth that much, but not pure cash, minus what it costs to move it there, which is nothing, and it costs us less overtime because we're no longer paying to maintain them.
>instead of going to improving infrastructure
lol it was all going to go towards trooning kids and feeding Black folk and you goddamn know it, at least building tanks for someone elses' war keeps people employed
>mad that he was told to post outlet
>resorts to ranting about trannies and Black folk
Pretty strong message US is sending here. They pretty much saying that the number of US hardware they give to Ukies isn't a matter of if they have them available but a number of trained Ukrainian soldiers who can operate them.
If not donated to Ukraine theyd be donated to Israel or your local police to use on you. Them being blown up in Ukraine is the better option
Thats not a w2 bud
Also
>holosun
You should buy american optics not chinkshit
>We're in insane amounts of debt
we always are. the national debt never goes down. only proles dont understand this.
You do have a point. It is stupid that we give this shit away for free. By comparison in WW2, we lent our military aid to the bongs with the understanding that they either give it back or pay for it
>bongs made their last repayment for lend-lease in like 2000 and something
So, yes, that is stupid.
But, emptying the boneyards of surplus that is just sitting there gathering dust is not the worst way to use that equipment.
>You do have a point. It is stupid that we give this shit away for free.
were funding a direct proxy war against one of our biggest enemies. destabilizing russia into a group of warring states is a net win for america.
>destabilizing Russia is a net win
No, not really. We have been down this road with Libya/Syria/Iraq, it was a shitshow and none of them had massive nuclear arsenals. Getting Russia to behave by teaching them a lesson in manners is one thing, causing the collapse of a nation of 150 million perpetually asshurt nuclear armed peasants is not a smart move.
There needs to be an ROI. I dont see one. So, unless there is an agreement for Ukraine to at least repay the cost of newly manufactured equipment, or, agreements that give the US options on Ukrainian oil and gas. This is a shit deal.
Americans have been spending a shitton of money on the MIC for decades. The ROI is that finally we get to see our money doing what it was supposed to this whole time: murder Russians. We got blueballed the whole cold war, but not anymore. Enjoy Hell, Ivan.
>We have been down this road with Libya/Syria/Iraq
But the US attempted to stabilize Iraq. The US very much built up a new Iraqi state. It was the Ba'ath party remnants, sectarian grudges and Iranian interference that destabilized Iraq.
>none of them had massive nuclear arsenals
The Soviet Union had a massive nuclear arsenal. We still destabilized it.
>perpetually asshurt nuclear armed peasants
The peasants don't have access to permissible action links.
Anon, the reality is that the nuclear arsenal is under control of corrupt officers who'll suddenly have the biggest bargaining chip they could ask for. Nobody's going to sacrifice their own lives, their children's lives, their grandchildren's lives just to prove their loyalty to daddy Putin. They're gonna trade the keys for retirement in some island.
>But the US attempted to stabilize Iraq. The US very much built up a new Iraqi state. It was the Ba'ath party remnants, sectarian grudges and Iranian interference that destabilized Iraq.
The US literally created sectarianism in Iraq and straight up fired all civil servants, soldiers, police officers, etc affiliated with the Bathist regime. Basically the US told a large part of the Iraqi population to go frick itself while putting Shias in charge of the country.
And that's after the US basically fricked up the Iraqi economy with sanctions and later the infrastructure with bombings. Iraq was a fairly well developed state with a functional society, especially considering the part of the world they're situated in.
>The US literally created sectarianism in Iraq and straight up fired all civil servants, soldiers, police officers, etc affiliated with the Bathist regime.
It was a massive oversight but you can't say the US created sectarianism. Get out of here with this American Exceptionalism but in reverse.
>fricked up the Iraqi economy with sanctions
Oh boo hoo
>Iraq was a fairly well developed state with a functional society
If you tally the deaths indirectly caused by US intervention (which is bullshit) and the number of people killed by Saddam to enforce his regime, Saddam is only like 10% short. The developed state murdered almost as many people as the messy post-2003 Iraq. Go frick yourself. Your "functional society" was as deadly as a goddam warzone.
I get it. I truly do. I used to think like you. But I've come to terms with the fact that I parroted all the anti-war propaganda I could find during the Bush years because I fricking hated the guy. Then during the Obama years I also hated his guts so I listened to a lot of crackpots. But I'm done with entertaining the thought that Iraq was a shining beacon of peace and stability.
Black person what the frick do the checks and balances do?
The chain of command cannot react in time to a rogue officer with the ability to launch nukes by himself.
Removing the chain of command also removes the way to authorize a launch, unless the officer in question was already able to launch by himself.
>It was a massive oversight but you can't say the US created sectarianism.
They literally put a sect of Islamists in charge of the country.
> Your "functional society" was as deadly as a goddam warzone.
Iraqis had access to free education, healthcare and public services. They had a sizeable middle class and divisions based on religion were not a problem in Iraq. They had lower crime rates than many areas of the US, and even the average homicide rate was lower than the US. People who got fricked up were opponents of the regime and Kurds. It was a classic authoritarian state where loyalty to the government was the most important value, above religious, ethnic or cultural beliefs. If anything they were Arab and pan-Arab nationalist. They were as far from sectarian as you can get in that part of the world.
I didn't say Iraq was a shining beacon of peace and stability but it was a fairly stable well developed country for the region it was situated in. It wasn't the war torn shithole it is today. Everything happening in Iraq, from Iranian influence to ISIS, was the direct result of US actions that toppled the Iraqi government, installed a sectarian puppet regime and then left leaving behind a power vacuum and a state ill equipped to tackle with any of it.
>They literally put a sect of Islamists in charge of the country.
Because of... get this... the other sect being over-represented in the Saddam regime and losing their jobs when said government was toppled.
Then because the Ba'ath party remnants were fricking sore losers they fanned the flames of hatred to get back at the US.
>Iraqis had access to free education, healthcare and public services
So does every nation in Europe and even commie shitholes.
>divisions based on religion were not a problem in Iraq
Just like Yugoslavia under Tito. No divisions, until the guy keeping the country held together with spit and duct tape fricking dies.
If you need a particular state to keep people from murdering each other and no substitute can help, the divisions are there already. You're sitting on a powder keg.
>They had lower crime rates than many areas of the US
May I remind you that you're on /k/? We've been through this bullshit argument thousands of times. The US is more comparable to Venezuela or Brazil when talking about said high crime locations.
>People who got fricked up were opponents of the regime and Kurds. It was a classic authoritarian state where loyalty to the government was the most important value
Again, this is /k/. Are you really arguing "obey the government and everything will be fine"?
>it was a fairly stable well developed country for the region it was situated in.
People say that about almost every country in the region.
>Iraqis had access to free education, healthcare and public services. They had a sizeable middle class and divisions based on religion were not a problem in Iraq. They had lower crime rates than many areas of the US, and even the average homicide rate was lower than the US. People who got fricked up were opponents of the regime and Kurds
lol, classic case of brown people crying about the evil white man taking their rwanda from them
Ahh yes I'm sure the government that reinvented WWI in the desert had such a wonderous land full of such things.
Are you going to live better if the US isolate itself and let China / russia consume all other countries?
The ROI is that we establish the precedent that nuclear powers can't just annex whatever territory they please without fear of repercussions. That, and solidifying our relationship with one of the largest manufacturing/agricultural powers in Europe, decreasing global reliance on Russian exports, and reaffirming the utility/benefits of having alliances like NATO. Isolationist policies would be great if we existed in a vacuum, but that's not how the world works. Events on the other side of the world can and will affect everyone eventually, whether you want them to or not.
The ROI is pretty clear though. See those BRICStards acting high and mighty? It's about time they get in their head they're shithole countries compared to the West, and will stay so for the next 50 years. As a matter of fact, Russia in all its stupidity made it so the West will still rule the world for at least the next 100 years, probably more. As it should be. That's some fricking good ROI.
The original Lend-Lease said that any intact equipment would have to be returned after the war, or if a nation wanted to keep certain items, they would have to pay us for them. Even then, we applied a 90% depreciation rate (as none of the shit was still mint-in-the-box by 1945), and treated the debt is if it was a loan. The reason why the Brits only paid off the last Lend-Lease installment in 2006 is that we were only charging them 2% interest, so it made sense to only make the minimum annual payment and instead focus on servicing other debts.
The Russians on the other hand? They didn't pay us a dime until 1972, and we had to agree to write off 75% of the (inflation-adjusted) principal and ALL of the interest. So leaving aside all the fuel, munitions, food, and other consumables, plus all the destroyed/damaged equipment and vehicles (which didn't need to be repaid under the terms of Lend-Lease) and just considering the goods and equipment the Russians chose to keep, we gave them the same 90% discount as the Brits, but they still only paid us a quarter of what they owed us in 1945. In the end, the US had to eat 22 years of unpaid interest and still only got 2.5 cents on the dollar.
Why the hell did we agree to that? Because the Soviet Union was in the middle of a famine in 1972, and we had to settle the books before they could import food from us. We gave the Russians Lend-Lease assistance to stop the Nazis from killing all of them, then we forgave their debts to prevent them from starving to death--- AND THE FRICKERS HATE US TO THIS DAY.
There was one quote from Obama saying how other nations would not ask help from Russia or China but instead choose USA for assistance. Other countries may b***h about the USA but we're a better alternative then the other two shithole countries with actual imperial expansion history.
>WE'RE NUMBER THREE!!! WE'RE NUMBER THREE!!! WE'RE NUMBER THREE!!!
As a citizen of the World's Number #3 Shithole Nation, I accept the honor.
Just more metal for the Russians to capture
Send Abrams and F16s please
>upgrading our equipment is not focusing on our country
moron
>Muh but about us argument
>Using chinkshit optic
You fricking idiot.
>That stuff costs money to replace.
Old stuff gets replaced anyway. The US isn't storing military equipment in perpetuity. It either gets sold at a massive loss to allies, straight up donated, or money has to be allocated for scrapping. Fun fact, armored vehicles can be dumped in the sea to help grow coral reefs.
This argument is invalid because older equipment in storage is replaced by the current equipment when new vehicles are bought. Stuff can't serve indefinitely.
>focus on our own country
Isolationism doesn't work. Unfortunately, if you want to improve the US you have to maintain good relations with everyone else. Focusing on the US would paradoxically result in a huge economic contraction.
Howabout you buy American and not commie Chinese next time hypocrite
Anon, those stuff are already paid for years ago. Even then, the DOD has a budget of their own and this cost a small fraction of it. What we are spending now is insignificant compared to what the United states spends on a annual basis.
>Not even within the realm of what I said.
You said that the US should stop supporting Ukraine with weapons, which will lead to its total occupation. How is it not connected?
And don't forget, when russian occupy Ukraine, you're going to have consider russia + Ukraine as your rivals.
Looking forward to see your answer.
>You said that the US should stop supporting Ukraine with weapons,
I did not say that, read things before responding to them.
Borrowing money to pay people is a very bad idea. I want economic value from Ukraine. Either they keep the oil and gas and use the proceeds to pay debts, or they let Exxon move in when this is all over.
>I did not say that, read things before responding to them.
Oh, you're ok with this. Sorry then, I though you implied it here:
And I agree, we should supply Ukraine with everything they need to win.
>Sorry then, I though you implied it here:
thats a different anon. I would never, ever, buy a Holosun.
>And I agree, we should supply Ukraine with everything they need to win.
Yes. But they have to pay for it.
My beef is that I am a debt hawk. I hate the fact that we have deficit spending. I hate it so fricking much it hurts. There are lots of ways to cut the deficit, this would be a drop in the ocean by comparison, but the way to kill the deficit is by a thousand cuts. This is one of them.
Sometimes you have to compromise.
Letting russia to consume Ukraine would lead to a significantly more losses than what the US is doing now.
Btw, Ukraine is paying for it.
>Btw, Ukraine is paying for it.
To my knowledge they arent. There are direct transfers which they dont pay for and the payments they do make is with money given to them by the US.
Aren't they getting themself in debt for the delivered equipment? I mean not 100% but for some?
I’m right there with you. With this we see direct results for relatively small dollars. The same thing can’t be said about 90% of govt spending. I’d much much rather cut all EBT and section ape and double Ukrainian aid to kill ziggers
>Your entertainment is not an ROI. The bottom line is what I care about and I dont see a solid return for this money. Humbling Russia is obviously important but its not worth diving deeper into debt for.
It's literally cold war left overs. Just because you put a price tag on the deliveries doesn't mean the US is paying that amount. this is the deal of the century.
This is what I wish so many right wing folks would understand. Yes each Bradley is valued at X amount, that doesn't mean we're paying that price right now. IRL isn't an RTS. Those Bradleys were probably paid for by your parents or even your grandparents in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. We are shipping a bunch of fully paid off and thoroughly used IFVs over to help a new friend frick up a long time adversary without officially putting even a single pair of boots on the ground in country. We're also fricking over China because Russia was their only ally worth a shit, was. The value of this lend lease is unbelievably good even if we don't end up with our very own ports in the black sea freshly leased to us for the next century, which I'd bet is pretty much guaranteed. What is absolutely guaranteed is another new NATO member when this is all done and over with.
>Don't see a solid return for this money
It's going directly to American workers.
God damn, I love America!
Keep 'em rolling!
>replace
Anon no one is going to replace Gavin’s from the 60s while other things like missiles from the 80s will be replaced anyway because they’re reaching the end of their shelf life.
>we could focus on our own country.
And when someone tries that you cry it is socialism.
>solid return for this money
US companies are getting new orders from all over the world. This thing is straight up creating new jobs in the US. Just consider all the countries which jumped on the F-35 wagon since or Polands order for 500 HIMARS.
the bradley is in the bradley. they are a matryoshka doll. soon they will see.
>The US never focused on collapsing the USSR
Both sides did intend to frick with each other. While the collapse seemed to come out of nowhere, the nuclear arsenals was what promoted the use of destabilization instead of direct conflict.
>It just takes one ideologically minded butthole to end the world
And it only takes one person to value the world, his family and his friends to shoot the officer trying to start nuclear holocaust by himself.
>Right now that doesn't happen because they have a functioning state.
A guy who intends to end the world doesn't give a frick if a state exists or not. He could just launch right now. He'd never face any true consequences from his own state because the American warhead would arrive to his location first.
>A guy who intends to end the world doesn't give a frick if a state exists or not. He could just launch right now.
He cant because there is a command chain with checks and balances. You remove the state you remove the command chain.
>debt
Anon you're way overestimating how much national debt actually matters. Supposedly the US debt was crippling when I was a wee lad and clearly it wasn't.
US debt only exceeded GDP in 2011. We are now in uncharted territory.
>We are now in uncharted territory.
And have been for over a decade just fine, and again, the panic from people like you started way before we hit this uncharted territory. Our debt isn't going to collapse or cripple the US in any significant ways, it's just something for fiscal conservatives to use as a soap box like the idea that climate change is going to wipe out humanity and end all life on earth.
Not that I'm saying I'm opposed to fiscal conservatism, we should spend less to take the burden off of tax payers, but the debt isn't a reason I feel that way.
>And have been for over a decade just fine,
Anon….
10 Strykers + 15 Bradley (plus a whole load of other shit) @ only $325M demonstrates how easily the US could supply Ukraine with armored vehicles. This is basically a battalion's worth of equipment, you could probably stand up a brigade for $1.5-2 billion, about 0.2% of the military budget.
That said, the US needs to be doing a lot more to train the Ukies. A two-week training camp isn't going to cut it, they should be training tens of thousands of mobiks for months to the point they're actually comparable to US grunts. That would make even more of a difference than any amount of Bradleys.
>That said, the US needs to be doing a lot more to train the Ukies.
It’s an issue of time vs needing personnel. Yes spending months is much better. But in a lot of cases someone trained at 70% available now is better than someone at 100% a couple months later. You hit practical diminishing returns at some point
I don't think most of the AFU is at 70% compared to, say, US Army, it's optimistically more like 30% on average especially if you include TDF. And especially officers need more training, and in many cases these units would literally be improved by taking away their officers and replacing them with basically anyone else.
>I don't think most of the AFU is at 70% compared to, say, US Army,
Certainly not. The 70% was a random number to prove a point. My point is if it takes x weeks to get them combat serviceable that’s likely more valuable than x+y weeks to get them “perfect”. Time is a valuable resource.
The amount of time to train and what is serviceable depends on the equipment and the soldiers use, but in general I can see the appeal of having good enough now vs great later.
holy projecting vatnikkeroid. Cannot see the irony if it smashes it in his alcoholic face
Has it ever occurred to you that aid money IS spending on our own country? Israel is israelite central but every dollar we send them has to be countered by spending in their regional rivals, many of whom are ostensibly our allies and we couldn't check militarily without a big dustup...in a lot of cases, the money they have to spend to compete is literally spent on American weapons. Money to Africa keeps their minerals flowing to us instead of the chinks, which is becoming an increasingly significant problem. Money and materiel sent to Ukraine means we get to kill Russians without having to deal with diplomatic blowback from allied nations who want to buy Russian gas. If you don't know how the game is played, lower your tone. Our foreign policy is far from perfect but "huurrrr duuurr isolationism" is a moron take, a moron strategy, and 9 times out of 10 it comes from a thirdie, so you can translate it as "nnnnooooo stop doing things that beat us!"
russians are very good at this, yes.
i mean where else but russia could you have commercials for joining the army because you're poor as frick and actually dying in the commercial so your family members get free lada's
Ukraine aid isn't contributing in any significant way to US debt. It's a drop in the bucket. If you want a balanced budget you have to cut actual military spending as well as entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. Hope this helps.
>Ukraine aid isn't contributing in any significant way to US debt
It 100% is spending has increased massively during this war do you not understand how the militarily industrial complex works
>balanced budget you have to cut actual military spending as well as entitlements like Social Security
Yes we need to cut a lot out of spending but a lot of that is the 1.2 trillion we spend each year on our mill tray and private contractors
>It 100% is
why lie?
forget to add the comma using a new layout
The military budget up $40 billion from 2021, or about 5%. Even if every cent of that was attributable to Ukraine, (it's not, the military is doing a ton of new stuff unrelated to Ukraine), it would still be a drop in the bucket. The total US budget is $6 trillion, that $40 billion nothing. Even including the value of all the air packages together is still nothing compared to a federal budget in the trillions.
The us send 112bn alone to Ukraine and its not just the new money its all the only before hand were spending trillions of dollars each year on corrupt government sectors
Only $46 billion of that was in military aid, the rest was basically paying the Ukrainian governments' bills, which I agree is more questionable and should be more on the Europeans. So realistically the US is spending maybe 0.5% of the budget on Ukrainian military aid, (probably less this year unless there's more huge spending packages), this is not causing national debt to rise in any significant way.
Killing Russians is worth a bit of waste. They are enemies of my /k/ and I'm willing to fight to the last Ukrainian to annoy them.
The best part of cutting medicare and social security is we could do that without actually cutting them by letting people who rely on them work without fear of losing their gibs forever. If I could work without fear of losing my safety net that I absolutely do need to have I would be at work right now instead of posting on PrepHole and make enough that my full benefits would be on hold. I'd also have private insurance and be paying taxes. Part of the problem is if you actually attempt succeed in life you lose your safety net. Once you're actually booted off social security especially good luck getting back on until you hit retirement age. If it just went on hold with no backpay after you hit a certain income and could be fired right back up if that income went away I guarantee a frickload of people would be working. Being trapped in poverty fricking sucks.
People need medicaid to survive without it tens of thousands could die most young who are living paycheck to paycheck
Again, you cut it without actually cutting it by allowing people to succeed instead of trapping them in poverty. You MUST allow people to put themselves in a position where they don't actually need it anymore without losing access to it if shit happens. I am one of the people that rely on it. I don't want to directly rely on federal funbux but I really want that safety net there to catch me if I fall because I really need it to make sure I don't fall straight into a 6-8 foot deep hole. I'm fricking tired of being a NEET leeching off the system because it's my only remotely safe option. I WANT to pay my fricking taxes and live well because my income isn't less than a part timer at minimum wage each month.
A lot of people don't try to do better for themselves BECAUSE they seriously risk losing the benefits they need if they do. Medicare is actually one of the easier ones to get back on. Social Security on the other hand will try to declare a limbless blind and deaf guy not disabled and fight every step of the way once you're officially off it.
Literally making the argument for single payer here son.
Actually a fan of having a government option alongside the regular private market. You price it in such a way that it offers a basic level of coverage for a reasonable amount forcing companies to compete with it and have premiums paid when you do your taxes. This allows companies to offer better and worse levels of coverage and still set their own prices but they can't go nuts because you can always just sign up for the federal plan. Nobody's going to pay more for worse coverage than the federal plan offers. In turn this forces medical providers, pharma especially, to reign in their pricing because now insurance isn't going to vomit out obscene amounts of money so freely. It also means premiums are paid instead of just using taxes and it's also opt-in. That shouldn't even touch medicare/medicade. Also actively reign in things like charging $100 for a bottle of gatorade through anti-gouging legislation, there's no fricking excuse for such blatant and egregious gouging of patients.
You don't just save money, you actively make it, and not in the "money printer go BRRRRRR" sort of way.
lmao i'm not even an american and i can smell the third worlder anger on this post. you're probably delusional enough to think that the US lost militarily, as in they lost the fight, rather than just losing political will to keep curbstomping insurgents and leaving the country on their own terms lmao.
though i will agree the evacuation was botched and that was very funny to watch.
none of this makes you white however.
>we could focus on our own country.
Yes, Bradleys on American streets would fix US problems
>Bradleys on American streets would fix US problems
I have read this novel
>The Last Centurion is a memoir of one possible future, a world that is a darkling mirror of our own.
>DEDICATION:
>To everyone who has ever felt they were looking out over Hadrian's Wall while Rome crumbled behind them.
the author is an ex-paratrooper with a biology degree and in this 2008 published book of his he tells a story which main plot points include a pandemic spreading out from China in 2019 as well as the protagonist properly destroying an equipment depot hes in charge of on pullout from middle-east to prevent weapons from falling into enemy hands
>John Ringo is considered the originator of the anti-political correctness slogan "get woke, go broke"
>I don't want to have Alzheimers at 40! Besides, most flu vaccines don't even work!
John Ringo is such a based man.
>false dichotomy
>muh boogies man!
Lol, lmao even. Not everyone is brainrotted as you.
Can we assume that replacement IFVs are in effect a proxy for the total losses so far? Or are going to send more than their losses...
any time they kill a zigger or talk about killing ziggers i support them even more
you are completely wrong if you think that money would ever be spent in anyways
Since when rightoids cared about anyone but their corporate overlords they worship?
Killing vatBlack folk is literally the best way to spend money
I pay taxes. I wish I could request that 100% of my taxes go towards killing Russians.
>stupid homosexual moron thinks national debt is the same as personal debt
MONEY ISN'T REAL
NATIONS ARE IMMORTAL
GOVERNMENTS HAVE CONTROL OVER THE FIAT SUPPLY
>We're in insane amounts of debt
literally so fricking what lol, this is the kind of statement made by someone who gets all their knowledge about the world from boomer news networks
When idiots say "muh debt" they're doing the typical little person thing of thinking about it from a civilian perspective, like credit card debt.
Instead of being smart and realizing its corporate style debt, where debt is leveraged to enact further gains. That debt ebbs away as gains are made, and its paid off and new debt is revolved in to service further gains.
Of course the average moron saying "muh debt" doesn't understand this because debt has only ever been a millstone for them. Even a regular homeowner can understand the power of debt when their house accrues equity and out paces the cost of the debt. If you bought your house 5 years ago or so its easily worth twice the debt you took on to get it.
Its pretty shameful just how economically illiterate people are. Nevermind the fact that all this "aid" is usually dollar values of the equipment, which was already made and spent decades ago. Frick, we'd spend even more to decommission or mothball them.
I think many yearn for a world where everyone doesn't have to do little merchant schemes to get ahead and leverage debt. I'm not israeli though.
>That stuff costs money to replace
It was getting replaced anyhow
>implying russia is working against "Zog and globalism"
Antisemitism along with holocoast denial are outright illegal, criticizing the government's choices in the war is illegal, exposing high level corruption with evidence will literally get your killed or gravely wounded.
But no, they beat up a homosexual on TV once or twice so I guess they must be the savior of the white race.
Contrarians should hang, every last one of them
yeah but i work for the military industrial complex so that money to replace it is paying me overtime baby B)
I like uuuuh 15 McBradley and um 10 Curly Mc113s and a side order of super size abrams.
>DU sauce, sir?
Where are the replacement Leopards? Oh right, those are not going to get replaced.
Pretty sure he wants to join both NATO and the EU after this. That'd be a pretty stupid ass move on his part as there's a good shot it'd kill that idea stone dead.
Can't wait until Ukraine finally capitulates and these posts can cease.
turns out you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink (esp when Pakistan is pissing in the water behind your back)
>American complaining that he gets to pay to kill Russians
You whiney little b***h. The rest of us would kill for that opportunity.
Not seeing a date stamp in your image, my fellow Ameribro.
>Let's fill up the potholes with 30-year-old M2A2 Bradleys!
>Then let's support our local schools with something something GMLRS.
>pay to disarm the explosives and scrap vehicles
>buying new ones anyway
>send old ones to Ukraine to kill Russians as they were designed to
The aid is literally bookkeeping. Barely any money moves, and that which does, subsidizes manufacturing in the US. have a nice day immediately you unpatriotic homosexual.
>improving infrastructure
Why is that a problem for military procurements? We don't have a spending problem with infrastructure. We have a procurement problem instead. How about you vote for someone that is actually willing to put money into projects that is not useless?
We lost 2,500 in the span of 20 years. We lost more people to gun violence than we lost in Afghanistan.
>muh 2 trillion
2 trillion in 20 years is alot to you? The United states literally spends like a couple of trillions on healthcare alone each year.
How does USA spend so much into healthcare yet so many people are in debt because of healthcare
People are moronic and the U.S. system of healthcare is a mix of government and private healthcare. Its less about the money and more about how that money is spent. In america, its not that hard to not get in debt because of medical bills. However, people are too moronic to own insurance or find the right channels to help them.
If people are too moronic to do this why doesnt goverment does anything with it and provide proper education on such things. This sound like malice on goverment side
If people are poor or have a disability, they can get government benefits. If people want to go private, there is a market place for it that has competing companies or they can get insurance from work. The lack of education and involvement has to do with lobbyists and people not liking governments to get involved with their lives. People are too stubborn and lobbyists lobby their shit onto politicians to keep the money flowing.
If i have painful tooth and no insurance what are chances i will get treated in USA without losing arm and leg? Insurance should be provided to everyone instantly, it is required in my country. How come there are people who do not have insurance in your country. That's impossible
It seems they tie it to people's jobs. Which makes absolutely sense at all, why on earth is your healthcare your employer's problem. Its what they are used to and they don't get much exposure to other countries even on TV let alone in person so its hard for them to imagine this isn't How Its Meant To Be.
Let 'em get on with it really, its a good sector to invest in and farm their misery.
>insurance should provided to everyone
Really the cost should be so low that insurance shouldn't be necessary, but unfortunately due to how power the current medical establishment has over itself costs are wildly inflated. And it's not just the insurance companies, it's the people who run hospitals and shit too.
>it's the people who run hospitals and shit too.
If every hospital admin was hanged tomorrow all then cost issues would go away
>. This sound like malice on goverment side
No shit. What world do you live in that the government is your friend? Show me one example of this ever being the case.
Because everything costs more in America.
Average doctor salary in Germany is €70k
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/germany-doctor-salary-SRCH_IL.0,7_IN96_KO8,14.htm
US is $200k
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/doctor-salary-SRCH_KO0,6.htm
Drugs cost more, too. Pharmaceutical companies charge euros less because they make the bulk of their profit in America.
The two biggest things America could do to lower healthcare costs is to allow anybody from a developed country with a medical degree to immigrate, and to allow any pharmaceuticals, medical equipment, etc. to be imported into the US.
Your healthcare costs are high because of a litigation obsessed society and lawyers. I will sue you if you disagree.
'On average, medical malpractice insurance costs $7,500 per year.
Surgeons tend to pay between $30k and $50k in annual premiums. Other medical professionals typically pay between $4k and $12k per year, depending on their specialty and area of expertise.
Malpractice insurance costs work out to about 3.2% of most physicians’ incomes.'
https://physiciansthrive.com/malpractice-insurance/costs/
>tens of thousands of men
Might want to check those numbers chief.
>HIMARS missiles
But I thought all 15000 of them were destroyed!
I really hate that ziggers made this meme first because its really just an accurate meme about Russia
You people are confused about the real-world war goals of the participants. There’s a long-term project by the US / West to cut Russian energy exports to Europe off using Ukraine’s large shale deposits. What makes this such a strong option is that Ukraine also has all of the export infrastructure for that trade which they inherited from the USSR — so if the West can work with Ukraine to develop those deposits it’s feasible to simply cut out Russia entirely. Nordstream was a play by Russia to bypass Ukraine for some security but the US fought hard to kill it politically; Putin understood that we just wouldn’t let him have that. Anyway. The US landed a major milestone in that project by getting Ukraine to sign a deal with Shell (and Chevron?) to develop some major shale deposits in the East of Ukraine. That was November of 2013…what happened a few months later? That was Putin’s counter-move, military force — and it worked; Shell / Chevron pulled out of the deal due to proximity to a war zone. But that was a temporary solution for as long as the West had a handle on Ukraine there would be no market security for Russian energy exports. Putin needs the European market for real European money, not cut-rate sales to poor countries. Energy is the very basis for Putin’s power system and the fabulous wealth of his inner circle. They only care about about gas and oil, everything can go to hell; but that’s made them susceptible to having those market cut off. Everything Putin’s done in Ukraine for the last 10+ years is over this issue. It’s an existential threat to not only his great wealth but also his power structure as a whole. That’s why he’s hellbent on a regime-change no matter the cost.
I don't see any tank or de-mining vehicles in there that will actually help the counter offensive, do you?
>russian gdp is mostly manufacturing
Actually moronic lmao did you think we would believe that shit? Name a single russian manufacturer that exports anything, and no vodka and energy and prostitutes don’t count
Well... Tulammo used to.
>tula
>used to
>90% of their export was shit from the 80's
anon, come on, YOU know you're better than this
I don't think vatniks realize just how deep globohomo's pockets really are.
a large part of that stockpile was meant to fight off russia not bomb sand Black folk in bumfrick nowhere. they're doing what they were meant to do.
Has Germoney or any Leo 2 c**t replace any 2A4 or 2A6 losses yet?
Also Bongs are GigaChads, hasn't lost a single Challenger 2 yet.
What, all one (1) of them? Not really worth a shipment.
>"No, we do not [think about the cost of borrowing for the USA itself]. In other words, that's... fiscal dominance. IF we were constrained in our monetary policy by the budgetary situation of the USA (and we're not, we're clearly not) the path we're on is not sustainable ... "but the level of debt that we have is not unsustainable!" "Is not" is sustainable, put it that way. So we don't think about interest costs when we make monetary policy, we think about maximum employment and price stability." — Fed Chairman Powell, March 7 2023.
Dead inventory that would otherwise cost money to dispose of or occupy warehousing space and maintenance (like the over produced anti-IED trucks) being sent to fight a belligerent is win-win. Hell, Russia doing what it's doing is helping squeeze out pinkos in Europe and places like the IMF shitting themselves over not having LIBOR to lead US foreign policy around by the nose now that the SOFR switch is being finalized.
Pretty on point. Wish they'd turn back the dial on it, especially on this board.
why is this such a common tactic among pro-russians?, just steering the subject towards the american economy to demoralize /k/ or something, as if that would ever actually work, and even if it did, far less americans supported the later years of the middle east interventions yet it went for years more anyway
It's a long shot but it's their only shot. They can't win if supplies keep coming.
The idea that someone could disapprove of American adventurism and Russian imperialism at the same time breaks their brains.
Russian gdp is mostly extracting ressources. Its an african state but instead of extraction company being owned by the west, they are owned by oligarchs.
REEE Black person STOP STEALING MY TAX MONEY REEEEEEEEE
>meaningless war
If it's so meaningless why don't the Russians withdraw?
I pay more taxes than you, and just so you know. Outside of the shells all the gear sent is 20+ years old at this point and bought in the late 80s/90s. DoD would have used or given these out anyway as part of procurement and rotation. Ukies have 0 new gear outside of NODS which are pennies on the DoD dollar. Such is life when your country has the biggest war machine and never stops changing
>More dead russians
Yeeeesssssss
>russian gdp is mostly manufacturing
LMAO, moronic ziggers actually believe this.
kek
I remember when Armatard had a two hour full caps meltdown when someone made this exact comparison.
At this point it's a coping mechanism on my end but I refuse to acknowledge that a person like this isn't an elaborate troll.
>that a person like this isn't a lolcow
ftfy
bump