The year is 2027, NATO is at war with China and Russia. The Russians collapsed immediately, Putin was shot before the nukes could fly, and the oligarchs have capitulated. The invasion of Taiwan failed, with heavy naval losses on both sides, 100k+ Chinese dead. The Korean war 2.0 is playing out with large formations of Chinese and American troops in support of whatever Koreans are left on either side. Seoul is an irradiated wasteland. All that's left are the Chinese mainland and the North Koreans. Iran is sitting this one out due to civil unrest.
How would this play out? Would we invade at all? Would there just be a nuclear standoff until a peace settlement was reached?
If we were to invade, what would be the best way to do it? What do casualty figures look like? Would they collapse as soon as we reached Beijing?
yeah
fippity bippity
Remilitarize Russia and send them in waves. They're clearly buck-broken enough to do it. Once both sides are spent, swoop in and finish the job. Pat Russia on the head and tell them they saved the world again and can have another parade day and an invitation to NATO.
We would send 3rd world "allies" like Filipinos or slavs to invade, no one would care about the casualties.
This plus three gorges damn strike dont forget all the tunnels they have dug.
Blockade and let them starve. It’s not worth trying to invade China it’s pretty defensible in terms of the terrain and has literally millions of bodies they can feed into a meat grinder before starting to feel a strain on their manpower. Without food imports a 3rd of the population will die within a few years or they’ll start crab bucketing and NATO can pick the winner.
> Without food imports a 3rd of the population will die within a few years
moron
you dont need to invade taiwan for it to fall.
economic sanctions, limit food and fuel imports to china, maybe some green berets/CIA glowies to start an insurgency in south and west china, and the regime will topple by itself because Xi doesn't have much competent and autonomous people left in middle management or even in his high cabinet to manage the crisis properly. Xi is like the incarnation of stalin. he has been purging everyone.
china is one of the largest importers of food and energy in the world, and their local food production is still reeling from maoist era moronation that damaged the lands in the longterm and got rid of most farming competency in the populace.
>and their local food production is still reeling from maoist era moronation
you don't know wtf you're talking about and you're being a huge homosexual pretending you are.
China has high food self sufficiency rate than the US until the mid-2000s.
China has higher food self sufficiency than some wealthier nations, e.g. the UK, Japan.
It is eating way, way more meat now and way, way more oil. They're wouldn't starve without exports, they would just go back to eating meat occasionally, stop frying shit, and get unfat.
A funny thing about food supply is that it increases health and life expectancy at first, moving up from low levels, peaks, and then begins making people less healthy as food becomes relatively more affordable.
true,that is funny OP,dosage is important for anything
China just reopened communal rice halls (yknow, those helped out so much last time) and the Chinese consume over ten million gallons of sewage oil every year.
US operates soup kitchen and eat themselves to insulin induced death. What’s your point?
Soup kitchens havent
1. put local businesses out of business
2. Appeared before massive turmoil and failed at their one job so spectacularly even the most loyal patriots cringe at their very mention
Funny that you equate low quality unhealthy food to the actual sewage being used by the millions of gallons to cook in China.
Operation "Make them as fat as US" is working I see...
>Reddit spacing
This
Enjoy endless swine ebola communist
China does not have the manpower to face off against the world. It only has enough to make it difficult.
This plan ends in the Chinese firing off their nuclear arsenal in a coutner-value strike just to spite everybody. Probably after building a couple hundred extra warheads and missiles beforehand.
You don't play stupid frick-frick games like trying to starve a nuclear power to death without winning some astonishingly stupid prizes for it.
Call me when china can even hit the same city they're aiming at.
This
The obvious solution is a First Strike in China.
>This plan ends in the Chinese firing off their nuclear arsenal in a coutner-value strike just to spite everybody. Probably after building a couple hundred extra warheads and missiles beforehand.
Unless they secretly have 100x as many nukes as we believe they do, they literally can't nuke all of us.
China has such a comparatively small nuclear arsenal that US ABM systems may actually be able to cleanly neutralize a strike.
Also, they would probably be busy using them on relatively large rebel areas. Or not at all, depending how poor their opsec is.
Being neutered and blockaded means that only a fraction of their shitty icbms will avoid being intercepted. And those that manage to get through, have to get through additional layers of countermeasures, each with multiple attempts due to the low number of icbms they have to engage.
Where did this stupid fricking meme come from? Do people even bother to think through the shit they here propagandists say?
China produced 25% of world grain and only has about 20% of the world population. It is a major rice exporter. A little over a decade ago China didn't import any better cereal crops.
>But YouTubers, Tucker, and /misc/ talk about their food sufficiency falling to 67% from 94% in 2000. They have sources and graphs.
And those sources are correct, but you have to know what those figures mean. They are about the share of food/feed for final consumption in China.
China didn't loose tons of arable land or forget how to farm over the last two decades. What happened is that food grown in China got relatively more expensive due to gains in foreign productivity and because wages rose dramatically. Since more Chinese can work in non-farming jobs, wages need to be higher to get labor. Chinese land, overall, is also not a fertile as that of other major food exporters.
So China imports more because it is cheaper. Chinese farming decreased due to competition but could be restarted in a war, and they still make 95% of their own cereals and are net exporting calories from cereals.
The ratios aren't about calories, what keeps people alive, but in $ amounts. China got richer and eats way, way more meat and out of season fresh produce. This is significantly more expensive and also is more likely to be imports (either meat itself or the feed).
China can and does produce enough calories to keep their population alive. Currently they are getting more obese. 42% of adults there are overweight or obese now.
Losing imports would cause high prices and force people to eat differently and even likely actual hunger problems in some regions (more to food be rerouted to rich Han areas from minority areas realistically) but some huge % or even a % dying of starvation is fricking moronic.
Most of this is true however they currently rely on foreign nitrogen/fertilizer sources for farming. It doesn't matter how many potential farmers and rice plots a nation has if it can't get enough to grow.
Without imported energy they can neither use the habner process to fix nitrogen in sufficient quantities nor run the machinery to maintain production. Thus output will drop. That's the real issue, they could try to use entirely domestic natural gas but that will mean next to nothing going to industrial processes.
This is the only economical way to do it. Invasion catastophic beyond moronic and would only serve to keep CCP trolls in power while the rest of the chinese would be content in eating their neighbours for sustenance.
Their ability to wage modern warfare nullified and supply chains been cut off, they will eventually rip themselves apart, or the CCP in best case scenario.
>blockade
The boring but obvious answer. In fact, that is exactly how this will go down and China knows it hence the frenzied blue-water buildup.
>Without food imports a 3rd of the population will die within a few years
Between One Child, dams like 3 Gorges going down day one by Taiwan or Japan alone, and "seven year grain stockpiles" being sold faster than Russian ERA, it's safe to say that Red China depopulates radically inside 6 months. The place isn't worth keeping, much less occupying.
The GDP numbers are fantasy, Chang.
chinese take anchorage
war continues until 2070s
nuclear holocaust soon after
>Chinese industrial capacity bombed into the Stone Age
>PLAN at the bottom of the ocean
>US bases in Asia are craters but new ones replaced them and US/NATO continues to have air superiority
>Vietnam on Tren on the ground
>stalemate
>social unrest in all countries involved puts an end to the war
>world economy in shambles
>everywhere is a revolution except for maybe a few places in Africa and South America
>antichrist does his thing
>Christ does his thing
>aliens were also there
>turns out everything was just consciousness, magnetism, and electricity
> ƧΉIƬƧ ЩΣIЯD MΛП ︻̵̵̿
does his thing
does his thing
were also there
out everything was just consciousness, magnetism, and electricity
Oh shit it’s the Lost finale
Will the pajeets get to shit their way into china once the use keep them distracted on the Pacific? Or will they instead nuke themselves into oblivion with Pakistan?
this is gay and moronic fantasy coming from that moron who can't stop trying to be famous.
>please sanction china more
china isnt being sanctioned in any major way.
US is one of the largest food and energy producers. If the entire world sanctioned the US then lower class people wouldnt be able to afford eggs and beef, but they wont starve. Electronic supply chain are disrupted for a year, but we'll live without phones.
China is an industrial, urbanized society that literally destroyed their agricultural sector in the great leap forward. An industrial society that relies on importing 75% of its energy by the way. you sanction china and you get famine that is worse than the great famine, its industrial sector is gone entirely because no energy, and now the lights are off and people in the city are starving, and they cant even trade in the black market for fuel and food because their industrial capacity is gone
>urbanized society that literally destroyed their agricultural sector in the great leap forwar
>doesn't realize China is self sufficient in food. Doesn't realize China's energy import is for it's manufacturing export.
If you sanction China you entire society break down because you won't have the parts or machinery to build a street lamp
This is the so called américain education?
>food security
https://www.reuters.com/article/china-fertilizers-quotas-idUSKBN2OQ0KY
no fertilizer. no food.
>you wont have the parts or machinery to build a street lamp
you can rebuild industrial capacity. luckily, US has good relations with canada and mexico who can trade the rest of the missing things.
unfortunately, you cant "rebuild" energy capacity. you either have fuel or you trade for it. unfortunately for china, their immediate neighbours dont exactly like them. You can bet that malaysia, taiwan, singapore, indonesia, india, japan will comply with sanctions not because of their obedience to the UN but because they actually have an interest in seeing the CCP eat shit. No energy --> no petrochemical processing, no cheap products, no exports, no processing of fertilizers for their precious foods, no money
Oh and lets not forget to mention their brilliant inverted triangle demographics. those one child policies during industrialization sure are doing a number.
>inb4 russia
i guess they can rely on russian gas (and they actually are relying on russian gas), but in case you havent noticed russia is not the most reliable ally, and neither is china, so they dont exactly trust each other. additionally, russia is also currently undergoing their own crisis.
don't shift the fricking goalpost
>and their local food production is still reeling from maoist era moronation
this is what you said. It's wrong. You're a dumb homosexual.
i can readily admit that I'm wrong about food production; I mixed it up woth their potash imports. However, it doesn't change the fact that their demographic is shite and their fuel hungry. you put sanctions on fuel and now they lose fertilizer production. sanctions would also affect potash imports. so yes, maybe sanctions on food wouldn't do shit. but sanctions in fertilizer and fuel would destroy china.
>no fertilizer. no food.
uhm did you even read the first link you gay?
Did you just google it and copy the first link?
what do you think they need to produce phosphate fertilizer smartypants?
thats right. energy. energy they wont have if they get sanctioned
Every energy exporter is not going to simultaneously sanction them.
name 1 process that doesn't need energy.
are you are moronic by any chance?
which makes china's reliance on energy imports even worse. thanks for proving my own point.
they dont have to. again, china imports 75% of its energy. lets be generous and say that it falls by 20% from sanctions initially, ramping up further and further over time. What so you think happens to chinese society and economy.
>china imports 75% of its energy
lol
lmao even
I am arguing with a monke
>What so you think happens to chinese society and economy.
If we're talking about a full war economy, which is really the only condition I could see sanctions like that happening, they would have shut down all their useless thingamabob factories. They would have enough energy for fertilizer. Remember Japan could prosecute a full invasion of south east asia even after getting sanctioned
You know, China's biggest flaw is having this belief about every single chinese being expendable in order to achieve the great leader's goals "for the greater good", it's only when you learn to appreciate the individual when true prosperity can be achieve, because ultimately it's the individuals, however flawed and easy to corrupt, the ones who made a society, not the other way around.
Why don't you run a poll with taiwanese people? Let's see what they think about becoming part of China.
>Switched to shitposting because he ran out of dumb arguments
lmao
>Why don't you run a poll with taiwanese people? Let's see what they think about becoming part of China.
are you actually moronic or do you not understand Taiwan is full of US SIGINT and HUMINT TODAY and the US had nuclear weapons on Taiwan pointed at China until the 72?
Do you know who came up with the Taiwan ADIZ? THE US.
Russia can provide both fertilizer, food and fuel and coal to China. And Russia is the biggest producer of all of those at different times.
Which is why friendly relations with Russia is of such importance to China. Friendly Russia completelly covers Northern flank of China, allowing them to concentrate resources on the East and South. To this end China is even Ok if Russia is influential in Central Asia, because Stable Central Asia provides safe Western flank for China, allowing them to not bother covering this flank.
Whatever idea of "Owning" or "Dealing with" China you have - China knows about it for decades and prepared for it. How do they know about it? Because Chinese can read English and they can read Americans bragging about "blockading China and starving China". And so Chinese prepared for that.
But whats funny is that you don't know how China can deal with you - because you don't know Chinese and Chinese are not dumb enough to tell you about their plans in English. So frick around and find out.
>If you block of the vast majority of China's trade they'll just instantly pivot their entire economy lol
This is how people think when their only experience with conflict or business is in video games.
touche'. How's that trade war going? Easy to win?
>i buy at walmart. therefore, walmart is dependent on me
lol
lmao even
>How's that trade war going? Easy to win?
which one? none of them impact me personally
>none of them impact me personally
if you live in the US it certainly impacts you.
China has several years worth of grain stored. That buys them plenty of time.
>and Chinese are not dumb enough to tell you about their plans in English
lmao, they tell us their plans all the time
>russia can provide fertilizer, food, fuel, and coal
i have some bad news for you.
https://delano.lu/article/russia-depends-on-western-tech
like i said, russia is currently undergoing its own crisis. its demographics is shit with constant brain drain because nobody competent wants to live in a mafia state, and its geography is just unfortunate, with most land being inhospitable and the hospitable land being flatlands that are a security threat. then just consider the maintenance, technology, and manpower needed to hoist/pipeline gas, coal, fertilizer, food to at eastern china from siberia which is closest to china.
And thats not even considering the ukraine war yet, where theyved gotten tens of thousands of their everyday civilians killed, with many more running from conscription, further destroying local expertise. And then there's the sanction on western tech which russia actually needs to keep their manufacturing and energy processing and production industry running.
>chinese are not dumb enough
chinese don't have to be stupid. they're running their system stupidly because its a one man state under Xi where he purged everyone competent who could be a threat to his power. not to mention that nobody brings him any bad news because they're scared. Again, this is the same china that claimed they destroyed COVID as soon as western journalists left, created a shit vaccine that no other countries wanted, and then surprise surprise beijing now has a pandemic, xi calls for complete lockdown and millions lose work and savings, not only that but because of the lack of natural immunity because of tight lockdowns and the shit vaccines, doctors were overwhelmed.
the shit Chinese vaccines is exactly the tell that Chinese weapons will be shit
they are producing both things in a vacuum with whatever they can copy or steal, and the people who do this never have to take any responsibility for it
>t. a fricking moron
You will always be subhuman, chink.
>a room temp iq poverty mutt calling anybody subhuman
KEK
E
K
the irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife.
No gun no opinion post gun
Please take more mRNA vax, please be a good guineas pig.
I'm sure a fleet of outdated 30yr old ships can blockade the largest fleet of modern warships of the world. You american have qing dynasty tier delusion
>PLAN is better than USN copium
post aircraft carriers lmfao.
But, lets even humor your copium for a second and pretend that the USN cant blockade china. it doesnt even have to blockade chinese ports lmao.
like i said, chinese southeast neighbours (vietnam, indonesia, philippines, malaysia, singapore, japan, SK, australia) arent too fond of china. they will patrol their own sea lanes and enforce chinese sanctions because china treats all its neighbours like shit.
all america has to do is park a carrier group in the persian gulf and the red sea, and there goes iranian and arabic oil. you can figure out what happens then.
post missile defense system capable of intercepting maneuvering HGVs
t. not even him
sure buddy, hypersonic glide missiles that china definitely have are going to be sooo useful in destroying the combined navies of india, japan, korea, vietnam, indonesia, australia, etc. and are going to hit US carriers on the other side of the world in the persian gulf and the red sea.
What else did i miss? Xi jinping's super saiyan 4 form where he big bang kamehameha the entire continental US?
Indonesia is a chinese ally and India is neutral at best. But that's ignoring the fact that that there currently is no counter for maneuvering HGVs, so the whole notion about force projection using CSGs is moot. Plus our shipbuilding industry is basically nonexistent, so once we lose our current naval inventory, all our hopes of force projection are basically gone forever. But hey, at least we cut CO2 emissions by deindustrializing.
India and China literally need 100% of the same water source to continue existing as countries for another century.
Good thing it's not another century and the invasion is happening this summer then.
My ESL gunless friend, India and China both *know* the other needs the water, increasingly, to the point of absolute necessity, so they have to already be planning each other's downfall. They're not just sitting there in a burning building waiting for the fire to reach their arm before moving. It doesn't just "suddenly become a problem" when a 100 year timer goes out. By then, one will already be completely crushed.
That's perfectly valid english, homosexual. You're digging as deep as you possibly can for fresh cope, but Brandon already fricked it all up.
Post your gun
>indonesia is a chinese ally
by what metric lmao. Indonesia had, and still has a massive anticommunist hateboner since suharto. the native ethnic indos literally rioted against chinese-indos in the 90s. and those same chinese indos have no sympathy to the CCP since they either ran away from CCP control or migrated to indonesia way before Mao took over mainland china.
>b-but theyre trading partners
yeah so are the US and china. it doesnt change the fact that local politicians and the general populace are distrustful of the chinese govt
>india is neutral at best
lol. lmao even. im old enough to remember border clashes in 2022 resulting in death. if youre having border clashes involving the military, you are not neutral parties. Geopolitical rivals at best.
>whole notion about force projection using CSG is moot
how come? if HGV have no force projection and CSG do, tell me which one is more useful for shutting down trade or shutting down key infrastructure continuously in a country? if your only response to voluntary economic sanctions by the neighbours that hate you is a hypersonic missile (that you claim works), what is stopping all these same neighbours from forming a coalition and destroying you? are you just going to nuke everyone? some savvy diplomat you are, im sure the chinese public who had never had a history of public uprising will take kindly to having their lives ruined and their diplomatic image of benevolence shattered.
That's nor even the best part. lets say china manages to intimidate all their neighbours by HGVs and nukes. it still won't save them from demographic collapse. Turns out that limiting childbirth while industrializing and urbanizing tanks your birth rate like nothing else. This really shows the foresight and wisdom of the chinese tiger.
>all our hopes of force projection are basically gone forever
>what do you mean the nation pivoted production when war broke out? why aren't they just building the same thing?
post warships with dual band AESA Radar
post warships that are not outdated crap from the 80s
post carrier with dc catapult
>post aircraft carriers lmfao.
Chinese ship based ASBM out range carriers.
>all america has to do is park a carrier group in the persian gulf and the red sea, and there goes iranian and arabic oil
China send a few dozen DF-26 and DF-27(6000-8000km range) ... no more carriers.
003 > Fords/Nimitz
055 >>> Tico and Zumbalts
052D >> burke
Also your numbers are outdated.
055 : 8 +1 coming out in 2023
052D: 25+10 coming out in 2023
>china sends a dozen DF-26 and DF-27. no more carriers
lets entertain the idea that this actually happens. in which case, what a massive blunder by the military with the largest budget in the world. It doesn't solve the problem that it just takes one india, indonesia, vietnam, or malaysia, to shut off fuel transports massively from africa, iran, and arabia, assuming they even still want to trade with china. All the southeast asian countries i listed above don't have good relations with china and have an interest in seeing it eat shit because china has a history of skullduggery and trying to be the big dick in the area fricking over everyone else. As shite as US diplomacy is, china is just plain horrid.
>yeah bro china will just missile those navies too
yeah surely declaring war with all your neighbours to end economic sanctions is going to end well for china.
>chinese ships are better than american ships
hard to believe when they're attempted replicas of american ships based on humint. also, i didn't know vessels launched per year mattered more than actual tonnage in service.
>india, indonesia, vietnam, or malaysia
mutt cope is hilarious.
>no argument
i accept your concession
>makes dumb shit up
>gets called out
>n-n-n-n-no a-a-a-a-argument!
lol
you're fricking pathetic.
making shit about SEA countries + india disliking china? all you need to do is pay attention to the news.
also ironic to be called out on "making shit up" by the person claiming that chinkshit navy outnumbers and outqualifies the USN. youre butthurt that at the end of the day USN still has way more tonnage, better quality ships, and actual experience using those ships in conflict compared to the notoriously corrupt PLAN.
>b-but 003>ford according to chinese state media
lmao. Can we see it?
lets assume this is true. how many 003 does china have functional and battle ready? how many 003 class carriers are battle tested? are those crew experienced? how many j20 pilots and airframes are battle tested?
anyone can figure out those answers for themselves and make their own judgment using critical thinking, another feature of intelligence not very popular within your glorious one party state.
disliking China does not mean they will stick their necks out for you. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.
>battle tested
I'd rather have superior training hours than being "tested" by taking 2 days to shoot down a balloon. kek
I bet you don't know that the PLAAF has more hours than the USAF.
actually, you don't know a lot of things. Oh boy, you will enjoy this ride.
>brings up the ballon for no reason
Got numbers to back that up?
disliking a country means that they will comply with sanctions. youre also forgetting that some countries may actually have economic interest in stealing cargo freighters attempting to go to china. Free crude anyone?
>id rather have superior training hours than being battletested
so, as a bodyguard, you would rather hire a soldier that has only played paintball for 200 hours vs a soldier that has 40 hours of actual combat experience + 140 hours of paintball?
that's some brilliant reasoning.
>PLAAF has more training hours than USAF
can we see it?
>muh balloon
lets see an actual experts opinion on how implessive this balloon was. The thing was sighted immediately, and if you know youre being watched you hide stuff and the espionage becomes useless. Biden said that they didnt shoot it down because of debris. the real reason is that the US was doing counterintel on the balloon.
> youre also forgetting that some countries may actually have economic interest in stealing cargo freighters attempting to go to china. Free crude anyone?
You’re pretty fricking stupid even for a muttard.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Agreement_on_Tariffs_and_Trade
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/sea-power-us-navy-and-foreign-policy
dont know your history? Dont even know that chinese success was dependent on the US patrolling the global oceans and ensuring free trade? I could have expected that from an uneducated shill.
Guess what happened before a dominant power with force projection maintained sea lanes like the US or the brits. that's right, privateering, piracy, and state piracy.
Do you think that china, with its mostly corvette-based navy, can patrol and secure sea lanes? you need larger ships with larger ranges. China doesn't have enough destroyers to patrol every sea lane, and if it tried to, it would spread itself thin and get torn apart by the navies of other countries looking to steal some sweet cargo under the pretense of some bullshit charge like smuggling or maintaining sanctions.
Cargo freighters are also not cheap. Eventually shipping companies will refuse to go to china because of the risk of losing all their cargo and their ships to pirates, privateers, or other states.
You’re a dumb frick.
Dude at least try to formulate a response
no u
>Do you think that china, with its mostly corvette-based navy,
Boomer cope detected. In the last 10 years China launch more blue water warship than the rest on the world combined.
Yes, you are an ignorant dumbass
I mean it wouldbe nice if the hatches closed but that’s Chinese engineering for ya
>American doesn't understand what that video means
>launched
>just because i launched 80 blue water warships in a decade i will best the US that still has more water warships that are battletested, battleready, and of higher wuakity
lets see objective numbers. actual tonnage of chinese vs american blue water warships.
and remember, you wont just be fending off pirates, but the navies of south east asia, all of which dont have to spread themselves thin within the entire supply chain from the persian gulf to asia, and thats not even taking into consideration the US.
Show me an warship with dual band AESA radar. Or carrier with DC catapult.
US navy dont have enough modern warships to compare
China has so much missiles that nothing on the 1st or 2nd island chain will survive.
Also US Navy airforce haven't been smaller than PLAAF for years. Your boomer knowledge are outdated.
can we see it?
055, 052d and 003 all have dual band AESA. Now show me your shitty outdated ship
Yes, on all the new bloc F-18s and F-35, and they've been installing them for three years on all new vessels as well as retrofitting old ones. You do realize that having shit in a mast changes nothing right? The Ford's explicitly had this as an intended feature from the design phase onward.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-us-navy-dual-band-radars-05393/
You must realize this is nothing special right? Duals Bands have existed for decades and AESA was pioneered on US aircraft.
I don't know if you're trolling with your ESL diction or a genuine chink.
Chinks are so preoccupied with the carriers yet I see no way they can interdict the 50 nuclear attack submarines in the US fleet. It's like saying the post civil war US Fleet could beat the British Navy because it had more ironclads, forgetting they were all costal defense ships.
Show me the number of US ship with dual band AESA then
Also, Ford catapult are AC, which is less reliable and versatile than the DC catapult on the 003, that's why Ford can't use F35 yet.
im sorry, but lets say youre correct. how is your dual band AESA on your fujian that isnt even operational going to fare against at least 11 nimitz/ford class carriers again? And its a big fricking assumption that youre correct since youre full of shit.
Oh yeah, and how is a radar going to help with your trade dependency on fuel that is defintiely going to be raided by EVERY country since they all hate you?
How is your radar going to fix demographics like this again?
Sorry, this was never even supposed to be a navy argument. this was always supposed to be realization that china is fricked no matter what it does. you can fantasize in your head about chinese nukes raining on the US and island chain cities. it wont save you.
Stop moving the goal post mutt. How many US warships has dual band AESA radar? Afraid to admit that the US navy is outdated?
i think youre the one moving goalposts. everyone here has acknowledged that Chinese society is fricked if it loses trade. which it will if it invaded taiwan and fails. youre the only one trying to prove PLAN superiority over USN over one simple variable in an aircraft carrier china only has one of.
I repeat again: How many US warships has dual band AESA radar?
I am another anon, but it's funny how you try to change topic. The guy discussing actual /k topic of radars and weapons, and you try to run away from it, trying to derail conversation into some nonsensical trade socio economic bs?
this was my original post. i never changed my stance on this.
this is a weapons board, but what good are weapons when the society supporting the military fails.
that is what everybody in this thread has been trying to explain to our dear autist here. Theres no need for a land invasion. convince countried to stop trading with china and now it loses imoorts and exports without war. if anything, this is the pinnacle of warfare.
Dude imagine if any time you were to discuss wars and weapons, people would point out that USA is full of Black folk and in case of a war, they would all ape out and the crime would go through the roof, with cities in USA turning into the war zones, with spontaneous racially diverse millitia and bandit gangs popping up everywhere. Because let's be frank, Tyrone is not going to fight for USA, but worsening economic outlook will force him to be even more criminal and aggressive, while all the white boys be dying God knows for what on the other side of the Pacific. So basically your American demographics are screwed, but war with China will do irreparable damage even further. White birthrates are plummeying, Democrats are electing trannies and pedos into the positions of power everywhere, sterilizing the last white kids while convincing them to be "stars" for ugly drag perverts.
Do you think all of this relevant to war? If not, then why the frick you pretend that this type of shit is relevant when discussing China?
People say that constantly, literally constantly.
if this was a discussion about waging war on the US, then american demographics, and possible american insurgencies are absolutely relevant to the discussion. moreso than the weapons themselves. Weapons dont mean shit if you cant make them, maintain them, and then shoot them because of domestic problems. unfortunately for you america didnt shoot itself in the dick with a one child policy for 50 years, and they have ample domestic food, fertilizer, and energy production domestically.
DDG-120
DDG-122
DDG-123
Fords, all of them, though the earlier ones aren't as good.
LCS-19
LCS-22
LCS-32
LCS-21
LCS-26
LCS-24
LCS-28
Can't find a list of the ones that were retrofit, probably a matter of convenience so it will be years before all existing ships get anything new. You do realize that naval ships have been using 4 or more bands since the 60s and that computer controlled arrays have existed for a long time? Without the specifications of the particular radar AESA doesn't say much and being a dual band system means little except for saved space and easier integration of data(ie yet more space saved). I mean its not useless but I have no idea why you are shilling for it so hard, is this a talking point your handlers have insisted on?
>Ford catapult are AC, which is less reliable and versatile than the DC catapult on the 003
Post sortie rate.
Zero then.
China has:
052d x 25 + 10 under construction
055 x 8 + 1 under construction
003
Thanks for proving my point that Chinese warships are techonogically ahead of the USA.
USA lost the trade war, that's why you are in inflation while China isn't affected. Also China has the same median age as the USA and has better automation and infrastructure. China is in a much better condition than the USA. Please don't wake up.
Bugmen be gone!
see
the guy you're replying to is a fricking moron.
Instead of debating the exact merits of a dual band AESA this b***h googled AESA and shat out a worthless list. He probably doesn't even know what the first AMDR proposal was.
>china isnt affected
you can keep deluding yourself but it doesnt change china's oil import dependency, their fertilizer import dependency, and their lockdown of beijing for an entire year because of COVID lmao.
>china has the same median age
thats not what matters in a demographic statistic. and I wouldnt brag about that exactly. with demographics this shit, the same median age just means that chinese birth rates are so bad that the population is at the same median age as the US despite US superiority in medical technology.
see the dark blue here?
that is the excess male population in china. that is called trouble, since they wont find domestic mates. thank you one child policy but what i would be WAY more concerned about are the up and down spikes in population as you look at the ages. you can basically expect a 20-30 year gap between a population and their children. 20-40 year olds are responsible for making new 0-20 year olds. notice something? that's right, there's half as many 0-20 year olds as 20-40 year olds. Youre getting a halving of the population within a single generation. That doesnt bode well for when those 20-40 year olds retire. remember, big population = big children, small population = small children. Eventually, you just don't have enough people to maintain the large cities and industrial manufacturing complex that china needed in becoming modern. This is why the west is obsessed with immigration by the way.
>you can keep deluding yourself but it doesnt change china's oil import dependency, their fertilizer import dependency, and their lockdown of beijing for an entire year because of COVID lmao.
Yet it's the USA that's in inflation not China, funny isn't it?
China also experienced inflation, their currency is just already devalued so they didn't notice.
Explain why the prices of food and staples in China are still at pre covid level then?
>and staples
Are staples really considered an economic indicator over there?
>doesn't know what consumer staples means
Ok moron
Offset by the communal rice halls which have put many local businesses deep in the red, and so hilariously failed during every food crisis.
LCS (the newer ones) are equipped with TRS-4D, which is a C band radar from Hensoldt. They're not dual band.
You're confusing AESA with dual band AESA because you're a fricktard.
No homosexual I looked at the backlog for defense industry daily I then looked to see when they said dual band AESA was to be implemented on both destroys and LCS. According to everything I read they operate on C and X while the chinks operate on C and S. I then named the relevant ships fitted out and commissioned after that date as well as any others they mentioned, namely the Fords. It was my understanding they were sticking SPY-3/ SPY-4 on a bunch of shit and SPY-6 on others all of which are dual band aesa.
If they are wrong then so be it but I haven't seen anything about a delay in the implementation so those should be the relevant ships. And I guess they want to equipped some the amphibious assets and frigates with them, but I can't find any information about them actually being installed.
Also the APG-81 which is on the planes can operate on X and SHF and is an aesa. Once again, I don't know why the chink is obsessed with this particular system?
why are you coping with the F-35's radar? We're talking about shipborne systems here, muttigger.
You see fren, when you build your surface navy around enabling and relying on your planes, it doesn't make much sense to analyze your ships without them.
US has 10 Ship AESA, 7 of them are useless LCS.
China has 33 Destroyer with dual band AESA, with 9 more coming out in 2023. China's next batch of 54B frigate will also have AESA.
Also, Ford use AC catapult which an inferior tech to DC catapult on the 003. AC catapults are less reliable and cant launch heavy aircraft, while DC catapult can launch both UAV, fighter and AWAC
PLAN has a greater number of modern warships than the USN that's a fact. Stay delusional
>if i reduce ships to its radar and its emal type i can claim that the entire USN is useless
>conveniently forgets that PLAN has 48 vs USN 62 destroyers
>conveniently forgets that china has 2 obsolete ramp carriers, fujian isnt even in active service
>USN has 10 active nimitz carrier, 1 ford class carrier
>b-but muh emal and radar
not so relevant when USAF has airfield and bases everywhere in the island chain for AWACS and heavier bombers, even assuming your entire crap about "m-muh DC catapult is le better because it just is" bullshit is true.
So yeah, maybe two factors don't just win you naval engagements out of your ass, especially when youre heavily outnumbered, and geograohically surrounded by nations that hate you.
again, i also always found it interesting that you just ignore the japanese, SK, aus, indian, and SEA navy who the US will call to get in on humiliating the chinese. turns out, people dont like authoritarian governments that blatantly steal intellectual property and brazenly copy US designs of their warships.
So yeah, the only one who has ever coped in this entire thread is you. because youre coping that your dual band AESA is somehow going to save you for the shitshow that will come if you attack and fail to take taiwan.
>conviently forget that all of US destoyer are outdated.
>conviently forget that Chinese destoyer has asbm that outrange carriers.
>conviently forget that all US bases in asia will get deleted wothin the first our of the war.
Also China can build more ship and weapons than the entire NATO. US cs China is reverse pacific war.
>just ignore the japanese, SK, aus, indian, and SEA navy who the US will call to get in on humiliating the chinese. turns out,
Too puny and outdated to make difference
China is not locked in with you, you are locked in with China.
>X are obsolete if i say they are
show us. prove it
>meanwhile only active aircraft carriers uses RAMP. also only have 2 (TWO) of them
not a good look my dude.
>neighbours too puny and outdated to make a difference
i bet the russians thought that too before invading ukraine.
>Comparing China to Russia in 2023
You are so moronic
china has always thought that the russian invasion of eastern europe as WAAAAY easier than chinese naval expansion. Russia has massive amounts of artillery and tanks, ukraine is a corrupt shithole with 8 years of preparation, Russia has some recent combat experience in chechnya and georgia, and you can walk troops into ukraine.
meanwhile, SEA neighbours all had at least 30 years to prepare for chinese aggression, they are not as corrupt as ukraine, and china needs to use boats to go anywhere.
in case you haven't noticed, likely because of your shit understanding of history, China has had 0 (ZERO) major naval engagement. their entire navy has NO experience fighting. And you don't need me to tell you how important large scale war experience is if you look at how much russia is fricking up.
China's last war experience was 50 years ago in a land war against vietnam where they got fricking destroyed. None of their officers have recent combat experience.
If anything, the evidence is pointing to the fact that china is worse off than russia. China is also comparable in its corruption to russia, which if you see what that did to the russian kuznetov, it does not bode well.
>china has always thought
Your brain on propaganda lol
prove me wrong.
in fact, go back a little and prove to me that all USN warships are obsolete.
prove to me how china's 2 ramp aircraft carriers and its currently fitting fujian will somehow beat 10 nimitz and 1 ford class carriers. prove to me how chinas 48 destroyers will beat USN 62 active modern carriers.
you have been posting bullshit for a week. Show us your math. unless you cant count past 50 cents
>USN 62 active modern carriers.
>PESA radar and short range subsonic missiles
You call that modern?
Chinese destoyer are the anti carriers ships. Chinese carriers are just air defense and intel support.
Tell me how you are gonna stop mach 10 missiles fired from 1500km away with your outdated sensors and missiles?
proof that chinese destroyers have missiles that constantly go at mach 10?
proof that these sensors are "outdated"
give me some sources. dont speak out of your ass.
prove it to me that PESA radars are shit, list its exact capabilities and tell me what exactly will fail. list all the currently active ships in the USN that actually use this PESA radar that you claim is shit. again, give me some sources. youve been speaking out of your ass for an entire week.
>he doesn't know what outdated tech are.
>think PESA is as good as AESA
You also have to deal with the fact that China can build 8 USN in one year if it want you. US is still in WWII Jap situation.
USN: 4.5 millions ton
China build: 40 millions ton of ships per year, most are ship larger than carriers
>no primary sources
yep, youre full of shit.
im not asking for anything difficult
Commercial ships aren’t a navy
So said the japs before pearl harbor
I'm not sure I'd use "lack of experience" and the USN in the same argument. After all, they were the ones to prove you don't need any of that going in. They got reamed for two or three years until they got the experience. The only way you counter that would be heavy handed decisive strikes early and nobody in recent history has shown the willingness to go harder than half-ass in any war so I dont see china capitulating early.
well, the fact that the USN takes 2-3 years ironing out shit and getting reamed is evidence of how important experience is. Which again, china has the fewer of. in fact, the USN is THE most experienced navy in the world. Constantly ship building, modernizing, and operating since WW2. its navy has also engaged in actual warfare. those are critical experiences to see which systems fail under stress and which don't. China has never had a modern naval engagement EVER. it doesn't have that data. its captains officers don't have any experience. The officers training those same captain and officers have again no naval experience. and thats not even to start mentioning corruption in the one party PLAN. they're all figuring this out for the first time. when SHTF, you can expect the PLAN to severely underperform
So would you have held this position about the USN in the early years of the war? Would you have said that they at the time had never had a modern naval engagement ever, that it's captains and officers don't have any experience and when SHTF, that you can expect the USN to severely underperform to the point of complete failure? Because if you would have, you would have been wrong in the end. I'm failing to see how only the USN is the only navy in all of history past, present, future capable of overcoming those kinds of shortfalls.
Implessive.
With this most lecent achievement, fate has, in a single stloke, malked the decline of the west and spelled a new ela of wondlous plospelity and peaceful global dominance fol the Chinese dlagon, which plomises to filmly stand in shalp contlast to the histolically bloody ascent of westeln powels and the cluel subjugation it blought to the humblel nations of the wolld. The blessings of Chinese
>plasma stealth technology
>undetectable hypelsonic combat vehicles
>quantum dilect-cullent electlicity
>neutlino submaline detectols
>hypelsatulised tulnpin computing
>polygonical ailfightels
>lehublidating fields
>gamma titanium mono clystal tulbines
>mono-edge weltens
>quantum ailclaft calliels
>double-pointed Heinmann engines
>unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks
>plotoclatistic neulal administlation
>hypelvelocity ail be-girlstels
>neal-space ballistic ail-to-ail missiles
>neuvon constluction facilities
>supel light tanks
>+2km lange ailbulst lifles
>quantum enhanced lailguns
>5G lemote Sulgely
>enhanced cobclete
>concletium supelstluctules
>vao tlee botanies
>magnetized plasma cannons
>tlilithium letliglation leactols
>vulticity ejectols
>quantum letloglade gliminite ailships
>and quantum supelalloy dlones
will be the instluments with which China affilms its noble stewaldship of 21st centuly wolld politics and offels the non-westeln wolld a diffelent option; an humanist altelnative to the depledations of Westeln leadelship and the oppoltunity fol a mole equitable and dignified multilatelalism.
You are both myopic cheerleaders with no genuine knowledge of or interest in the military capabilities of either country. The closest to /k/ either of you will ever be is serving as the jingoistic flag-wavers necessary to kick off a major regional conflict while the rest of the world looks on and says "Nobody could be dumb enough to start another war."
>makes a shit claim
>gets btfo by reality
>"you're a moron/mutt/dumbfrick"
i hope those 50 cents were worth the pain of getting your bubble of delusion popped.
And you just know what he’s gonna respond with, come dude say the line!
Wait, are you asking for images of these ships and their technologies because you want the info on them?
>Prease American Pig-Dog, shrare youre miritari hardware onna youra anime forumu
thats not really a feasible idea due to the same reason that there are few train tracks from Russia to China
land routes are extremely expensive, and this is ignoring the time it would take for Russia/China, assuming it was willing which is dubious since the western world would probably financially incentivize them not to be, to actually build the infrastructure required.
iirc, assuming there is no conflict going on and nations are not joining sanctions, land route shipping is roughly 8x~ more expensive (the number would be a LOT higher in actual conflict)
Dude, if this was in peace time then 8X more expensive would indeed mean - "unfeasible, non-practical, economical waste".
But if we are talking about WAR TIME and this is a choice between certain death or...spending 8X time more money on something to prevent that death by expanding the route to Russia and running more trains and cars on it, then economic consideration of market capitalism from peace time go frick out of the window. What matters is POSSIBILITY and not FEASIBILITY.
So is it possible to get resources from Russia in case of the naval blockade at sea? Yes. Is it feasible? Who the frick cares, and if someone cares - just shoot him in the head and continue discussion without this dumb element who doesn't understand the reality of the war situation. In war times people don't think about profit, they think about security. All of the US bases in Afghanistan had several trucks with constantly running engines, non stop, 365 days a year engines eating oil for 20 years - for security, in case the base is under attack and they need to make sure that engine will be running already. You think someone in US government said - "but this is expensive"?
China and Russia have great expertise in building the rail networks, so in case of war, i bet they can just employ millions of workers to expand those rail lines in all directions. For Russia it would be enormous profit and for China the life line.
In fact it will be beneficial to the rest of the planet to get rid China from the economic system, go check academic works and you will find the american middle class shrunk in great measure due exporting jobs to China, as a matter of fact, it was the CCP making a devil's deal with the west elites what allowed China to lift so much of their population from poverty while the west workers faced stagnation, both sides will suffer, but it's the chinese the ones who have the most to lose as don't even think for a second western corporation owners will side with China once it becomes a liability.
Really, do you honestly believed a nation with an ideology which predicates world revolution was holding back out of good will?
Realistically, I highly doubt we would ever put boots on the ground aside from special forces strikes or whatever, maybe outlying islands, but China just has too many fricking people and is too big to invade and subdue. Much more likely that we would interdict trade in the Indian Ocean and maybe tit for tat strike at fuel storage and the nascent Russian pipeline infrastructure if they attacked US bases during a Taiwan invasion. China's fuel supply is all imported and almost all of it comes through the Indian Ocean.
China is not food secure when you consider agricultural inputs. We build the machines that Chinese use to make most cheap Chinese shit. Loss of China's manufacturing base would be temporarily painful but it is absolute pure hopium to think it would actually cause a societal breakdown rather than a few years of heightened inflation and general economic malaise as supply chains readjust. Loss of foreign capital, foreign export markets and large portions of the global agricultural and energy markets would cause far, far more economic pain to China than what China is even capable of inflicting on the collective west or USA alone.
>China's fuel supply is all imported
implessive
> We build the machines that Chinese use to make most cheap Chinese shit.
You’re a fricking moron who’s never looked up the CAPITAL GOODS chinese import category.
>If the entire world sanctioned the US then lower class people wouldnt be able to afford eggs and beef,
Honestly they still would. Basic food products are so abundant in the US that they could feed the entire world if they wanted to and used their land efficiently, ie. onions and corn instead of McGregor's 5800 acre organic beef farm.
Then why is food getting more expensive in America while staying the same in china?
Staying the same? You Black folk literally just reopened communal rice halls. You know, those things that worked out so well for you last time?
The Chinese consume ten million gallons of sewer-oil a year.
You're baiting, but inflation in China is crazy. Officially prices of vegetables have increased by up to 25%+ in 2022 for example. Unofficially I now pay 20 for a nice pineapple and 10 for a kilo of good eggs on the market.
> and 10 for a kilo of good eggs on the market.
Chinese pasture eggs are superior. I wish i can get them here.
Honestly they are still way below Euro eggs. I tried buying the expensive ones from different aunties, but it just doesn't come close.
You might be mixing up butter with eggs, fattie.
Does that response make sense in Hindi?
>but inflation in China is crazy
You are making shit up lol. I was in Tianjin last month, stuff are still at pre covid price.
US have no allies in Asia besides Philippines lol. Vietnam is closer to China than USA
Wow a place known for cheap shit goods....sells things at cheap prices! Anyway lmao this Black person forgot Japan and South Korea exist
Japs an SK have crazy inflation lol
Ok so does China but they’re still allies..?
>Ok so does China
Nope
Yeah they do
>I was in Tianjin last month
And I am in China right now mf.
Not that this is much of a flex with an AQI of presumably 500 in a dust storm
>You are making shit up lol.
So you are saying that the Chinese government is making up economic data?
Why exactly would you think that the Chinese government is faking data on inflation?
Count Russia on the West side, remember USA and Europe would rather prefer Ukraine to sign a piece treaty where they recover their 2021 territories while letting Russia keep Crimea to save face, in the deal Ukraine becomes a member of NATO an EU while the russian regime somewhat manages to save face.
By 2027 the West can make a deal with Russia, in exchange for a lifting of the economic sanctions and Lend-lease 2.0, the russians attack northern China while they are already are fighting a naval war against Taiwan, USA and their pacific allies, a meatgrinder in the Himalayas against India, asymetrical warfare against Vietnam and have to keep best Korea afloat.
Ultimately it will be like a mix of the Opium Wars and WW1 european theater all over again, with China's military getting decimated from so many enemies outnumbering even them, too many fronts and a blockade which will finally break Jinping grip on the government, I imagine he may attempt to press the button if someone at the CCP doesn't just put a bullet in his brain to avoid to break the taboo and save something, but I suspect even if that came to happen USA may already have by that point such advanced anti-ballistic systems to deny most nuclear attacks.
I honestly can't see how China would recover from this, as they already crippled their own demographic.
I can only get so hard, broster
You can, listen to this while reading it:
USA is a strange nation, they are the only major world empire in history who truly seems to prefer to use the carrot rather than the stick, they DO believe it, what is more, instead of a carrot there is burger and discount coupons for more burgers, that's why they always win in the end, even if you somehow manage to make their military go away after ruining yourself to the point of starvation you eventually fall for the smell of roasted beef coming through your window. I guess all these autocrats are vegans or something.
> USA is a strange nation, they are the only major world empire in history who truly seems to prefer to use the carrot rather than the stick
This is the biggest bullshit in a thread full of bulshits.
"I may be an butthole but I'm not a 100% dick."
I think it would be more accurate to say that for the US, the carrot IS the stick. By dint of controlling the world's economy and politics, the benefits of aligning with the US have been historically so vast that simply shunning them is a road to ruin. Lesser powers punish their enemies by military invasion; greater powers punish them by sanction and exclusion.
NATO? 2027? lol.
> go check academic works and you will find the american middle class shrunk in great measure due exporting jobs to China
you're a fricking moron
>NATO? 2027? lol.
>Finland
now go and cry to monke lord for a banana
You know outside of PrepHole most people don't really hate you, but the ones who rule you want you to believe that despite ample evidence on the contrary the rank and file of humanity and even the elites would rather prefer you don't live in abject poverty, no one has any use for hobos.
Let me ask you one question, what do you think you will achieve in the long term if you somehow manage to capture Taiwan?
homie wtf are you talking about? Off shoring started way before chinese entry into the wto, and it went to Mexico and SEA.
As far as capturing taiwan, it’s one less headache for china. Taiwan is a huge security complication for China, especially given US designs to use the cross strait relationship as the lynchpin of Chinese maritime containment.
Security Complication? What security complication? They literally just sit there and sit on an island asking China to frick off. If China were willing to negotiate an end to the standoff, it would end. China's 'negotiation' is "You become part of us immediately and we strip your people of all civil rights like we did Hong Kong."
oh and were you implying that China imported oil to make fertilizers?
wow. that's very smart. I bet you are from Taiwan or some kind of SEANIG. Nowadays you are all the same with the diversity BS going on.
when the KMT was still strong, they did negotiated but was told to frick off. You don't get play coy when you become weak kek.
> They literally just sit there and sit on an island asking China to frick off.
You’re a fricking moron and don’t know shit.
Isolating them from technology, energy and food supply would be enough to destroy them, wouldn't be good for US and world but much better than all out war or nuke exchange.
Invading China sounds completely moronic, like attempting to invade the USA
nothing would make it worthwhile.
>PLAN successfully projecting beyond its own borders in a global conflict
Thats a wild fantasy novel you're writing
>The Korean war 2.0 is playing out with large formations of Chinese and American troops in support of whatever Koreans are left on either side. Seoul is an irradiated wasteland. All that's left are the Chinese mainland and the North Koreans. Iran is sitting this one out due to civil unrest.
North Korean brass literally joke about the war with the south never coming. There is exactly zero desire with conflict with the south, meanwhile China literally tried to have Kim Un killed in a quiet coup that resulted in several of his family members dead (some of whom China was backing lol).
Why even invade China, seems like too much of a "mainland invasion of Japan" sort of situation to be truly considered.
Why not just take the "nuclear option" and fully blockade it from the SEA straits or from the shore if naval supremacy has been attained.
A lot of Chinese just under half are very anti-CCP
because of one man, millions were barricaded in their homes for 3 years with no work, no means of living, no food and even when the building was on fire. many died starving but this is routine for communists. where they go, mass death and ruination follow
covid really opened the eyes of the chinese people, that's why there is so much less shilling nowadays by chink idiots and also the government apparatus is visibly scared in their propaganda
>A lot of Chinese just under half are very anti-CCP
What kind of propaganda bubble you live in? American probably. Reminder that the great firewall of china exists for YOUR protection
>Chinese maritime containment.
Chinese warships surround Taïwan and police strait traffic while the US navy ran away as they always do
>Reminder that the great firewall of china exists for YOUR protection
more like our sanity, I wish India would follow china's lead and keep all of their citizens in a little propagandized bubble
the wall is not to keep Chinese citizens from accessing Western media. It's to keep the West from accessing Chinese internal eco system.
Ask yourself: is it easier to access the outside internet from within China or is it easier to access Chinese service from outside?
The former is piss easy, even a child can do it. Now the second, even the glow Black folk in Langley cannot reliably do it.
That's how most of the "top secret" leaky of Chinese amunition/armor spec "leaks" are just literal screencap of what they show on TV regularly.
You may ask then why don't sexpats in China make a living by "leaking" these shit regularly?
It's simple they cannot understand Chinese LMAO. Even if they have lived there for 20 years.
>The former is piss easy, even a child can do it. N
and just as easy will get you imprisoned if they detect you with a VPN
>easy will get you imprisoned if they detect you with a VPN
LOL. Westerners can't be this brainwashed
>fully blockade it from the SEA straits or from the shore if naval supremacy has been attained.
Some European homosexual said it is a warcrime to blockade food ships
Euroids seethe
Imagine the CCP council making a PPT presentation about how the war in Taiwan is going when suddenly the audio systems are hacked and they hear the most fearsome thing ever:
>GOOD MORNING SIRS!
what the frick is wrong with india
Democracy is unable to stop subhumans breeding.
>2023 same population
>2030 (prediction) doubling the gap
In just 8 years.
*2022
Imagine Vietnam, Korea or Operation Downfall but with a terrain 50x larger, with mountains (deathtraps) and cities (deathtraps) to clear and against a military at 0.75% the capability of USA and armed with a fully functioning nuclear triad including HGV's.
moron.
Churchill was right, they breed like wienerroaches.
If America was clever it would do an Iran vs Iraq, or Ukraine vs Russia. Arm both sides (covertly/overtly) and force India and China to slug it out for a decade before pacifying both countries and installing favourable rulers.
>Invading a nuclear power.
>Get glassed from this plant
>Frick around and find out lmao
unlikely
>I suspect even if that came to happen USA may already have by that point such advanced anti-ballistic systems to deny most nuclear attacks.
This unironically
On the ground:
>Patriot
>THAAD
>ROC Skybow System
On countless destroyers and every cruiser and AEGIS ashore
>SM2 ER Block IV
>SM3
>SM6
All very effective against intercepting ballistic missiles, and some very effective against low flying HGVs. And, with the way things are set up, given that we see a 50-70% success rate with midcourse and terminal interception, but much higher with boost phase interception, given the Chinese have 150-300 operational ICBMS and 400 warheads total, and given how many of each of these systems there are on the ground and on the water between CN mainland and US Mainland, they might not even hit Guam let alone CONUS.
Since Reagan the American policy has hot been to seek better nuclear retaliatory capability, but nuclear invulnerability. We're (probably) not there yet with an exchange that could see thousands of warheads in the air at once, (Poutine press ebin red button), but less than 300? Piece of cake.
>Would we invade at all?
whatever for? if they start a war: just bomb and starve them until they start behaving
>2027
>Russia still being a threat to anyone
>Russia still even existing
If you're going to larp or shitpost, at least make it believable.
Ukraine vs Russia war will last 4 years
What is your point..?
That map is unrealistic. An invasion into China from India, especially northwest India, isn't happening. You're forgetting the borders are mountainous.
A land invasion into China is only geographically realistic from Myanmar and Vietnam.
do people even live close to the nepalese border? it's all mountains and plateaus several km above sea level, it must be miserable beyond belief
>How would this play out?
Your fantasy is so stupid I suggest adding ponies and Warhammer characters. That you didn't instantly implode from shame at the idea of sharing it says a lot about you and nothing good.
It's so stupid it's not even cool fun fantasy. It's a singularity of duh.
no smartie pants plans ITT
everyone forgets the chinks have about 50M minorities to eat before they start starving
50m minorities
30 million living in caves
countless undocumented bastards of the One Child Policy
Honestly these people are more likely to take over china than be eaten by it, Most have never been in a school or received anything but violence from the party.
Regular Han fricking suck as fighting. If the splinter-chinese who have been living in caves for the last hundred years show up and start rampaging, most chinese will just stand there staring like cattle while they're killed, we've all seen how they react in rekt footage.
Just hit them with the same sanctions used on Russia. China is so resource dependent it would collapse. Mongola, Tibet, Vietnam, Korea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgzstan Myanmar and Russia can all claim clay. The rest of china is broken up into separate regions.
>2027
This is cope. You have until June.
What's the implication here? Joe Biden dies and NATO vanishes along with him?
China interfered in the 2020 election so that the demented moron would be left unprepared for their summer 2023 Taiwan invasion.
to be honest,the best way to cripple infrastructure would be to send a F35 squadron to the three gorges dam and send some trollage their way
if China is gonna have any anti air presence in that area (likely) its possibly still easilly disrupted by a E/A-18 growler or more f35's specced for AG operations
The three gorges dam is like 1000 miles away from Okinawa. I get that F-35 is "stealth" but I don't think they make it there with a E/A-18 in tow.
Obviously,thats why its not the prime objective,i said this with forward operating bases and like with troops and land already taken.
obviously a strike from taiwan to the 3 gorges dam would not be possible...
So what's going to happen to Ukraine after we pivot to Taiwan? More importantly, what's going to happen to the ukrainian shill farms that police nu-/k/?
>How would this play out?
Establish a naval blockade preventing even food items to be delivered to them. They'll starve by the dozens of millions and probably start eating each other within 6 months. Negotiate with them and demand a total surrender of their nuclear capabilities and assets, along with complete demilitarization of their conventional forces or their entire population will be starved to death.
More interesting is how would you defend China with a 3 front war in the west, south, and east. Assume Russia is neutral. How do you defend yourself from the pajeets in the himalayas, japs in the east, and americans in the east and south? No nukes for either side. Assume south korea is preoccupied with an invasion in north korea, but they may break through and invade the Northeast.
The biggest issue is the pajeets in the west. I don't see any easy way of neutralizing them just because there's so many of them and you may need to go deep into India. If the western front has a quick end, maybe with China settling borders in India's favor, the defense in the east would be much easier. The northeast is chill because of how the borders are drawn.
>Assume south korea is preoccupied with an invasion in north korea
It's never going to happen. The north is completely disinterested in renewing that conflict, it's all just for show.
>defend yourself from the pajeets in the himalayas
Logistics constraints
>japs in the east
It'd be fun watching the Japanese parliament justifying amphibious landing capacities for the SDF
>and americans in the east and south?
America has never conducted an amphibious assault against the mainland of a country with a comparable navy. Truth is, landing spots aren't exactly dime a dozen.
>America has never conducted an amphibious assault against the mainland of a country with a comparable navy.
And considering no comparable navy exists, this trend will continue regardless of who we go to war with.
Umm... The year is 2023, NATO is not at war with China, and no open conflict between it and Russia. Putin still rules over Russia, the oligarchs are still in control, Taiwan has not been invaded, WAY more than 100k Chinese have died, and Seoul is doing just fine.
Fricking dumbass.
>dude just eat only rice for years dude we're self sufficient in food
Threaten to Bomb the Three Gorges dam if China doesn't surrender.
Win.
It makes no sense to attempt a ground invasion. Instead, the smart play is to cut off china's sea access, cruise missile its fuel stockpiles, pipelines and railroads from russia, then wait two years and watch as they eat each other because their agricultural sector can't produce without fuel to run all the machines.
Also if you think that the chinese fleet can keep its supply routes open, you're delusional. Their navy is built for local force projection, and can only carry out small missions further out from their bases. Tankers moving fuel to china from oil-producing nations need to travel vast distances in the open seas where they are trivially easy targets. To keep them secure they'd need to escort them the whole way for which they haven't got enough warships; whereas any interdictors can drop off a boarding parties on multiple vessels a day, and that's if they're not willing to accept an oil spill and simply missile the damned things. Once it's clearly demonstrated to the tanker operators that their vessels WILL get seized or sunk if they move fuel to china, they'll stop on their own; you can't make a profit when all your ships are under arrest at port.
1. Blockade China throught the Jamba and Singapore straits to isolate China from the world energy market
2. Partner with India to invade Tibet and seize the headwaters of the Yellow and Yangtze rivers.
China now has zero food and energy imports, zero water hence zero domestic food production, and minimal energy production. They face not only complete defeat in any industrial warfare, but complete social dissolution and destruction
Anyone calling for a land invasion in china is actually moronic. All you would really have to do is wait until flood season and blow the 3GD at peak levels. You would kill almost 1/3 of China's population immediately, displace another third, and the last third would probably starve as you block food imports into China.
Unless China nuked someone that’s political suicide, effective but killing 350 million people isn’t wise unless China becomes absolutely completely insane
This is a thread where we are theorizing about land invasions in China. That's basically a "total war" scenario for the West.
>noooo we cant just kill hundreds of millions
They're just Chinese, we should and it would be funny
You can't starve out China dumdums. Have you read history?
DECISIVE TANG VICTORY
While China is technically self-sufficient, it's still the US' largest agricultural export market by far. If it ceased to be that, the people would definitely feel the pinch.
China is not food-self-sufficient, not by a HUGE MARGIN, if they don't have access to Eastern European grain via Belt-and-road, there will be MASSIVE FAMINES. Creating instability and bringing shame upon the government, whose social contract is "we'll tolerate you if you keep us safe and happy".
Making starting/supporting a massive Civil War VERY EASY. Meaning that a large faction will likely be happy with US presence. Meaning there will be no landing craft or bloody beach needed, if they have coastal land we'll be able to walk right in, hand them the upper hand in the war, and define a new government. Maybe coup them every couple decades to keep them low, or give them the Japan treatment and vassalize them until the war is old history.
Somaliland has recognized Tawain, it's already over for China.
I can smoke Winnie in Two(2) weeks
>Russia collapsed immediately
Yes, Russia is basically out of commission for the foreseeable future, they likely wouldn't be involved in a Chinese war, especially due to political conflict of interests.
>Invasion of Taiwan failed
A very likely outcome. There is a small window of opportunity, basically 2 months out of the year that would have "favorable" conditions for an amphibious invasion across the strait of Taiwan.
>Korean War 2.0
Yes, but no. As other anons have mentioned, NK brass joke about there not being a war. If China were threatened, I think they would pressure NK into attacking SK to stretch the U.S. thin, but due to the state of that country, I think they would capitulate very quickly. They would be to China what the Baltics are to NATO; a speed bump. The U.S. could negotiate some kind of agreement where Kim stays in power, but remains neutral. I really doubt they'd have much fight in them.
>Iran is sitting this one out
Not very likely. Iran and Pakistan are China's only true allies. They wouldn't pass up the opportunity to make bank off of oil sales. Expect them to be involved.
Continued:
With China backed into a corner, the party would be desperate for a victory. Their whole policy for the past 60 years has been to re-take Taiwan. If they can't have it, no one can.
They would likely try to bombard Taiwan. The U.S. response would likely first be air defense (kind of like Iron Dome on steroids) and mass evacuations of civilians to Japan, Philippines, and SK.
With such a large standing army and a nuclear arsenal that is smaller and less capable than the U.S., their best bet is to continue shelling Taiwan and force the U.S. to come to them.
But invading China is no small feat. It would be just as difficult to pull of an amphibious invasion for the U.S. as it was for China, so that's off the table. If NK capitulated, that could be one avenue of approach, but not likely.
Preventing the import of oil from Iran and Pakistan would be the first step. A naval blockade would be relatively easy as most of southeast Asia is de-facto U.S. aligned.
With sea trade basically blocked, they would have to transport supplies by land through the 'stans and into Xin Jiang. This region, however, is home to 11 million Uyghurs who are heavily persecuted by Beijing. I could definitely see the U.S. supplying rebels in Xin Jiang to attack supply lines and divert manpower further inland. This could be done for other minorities throughout the country too. Basically, the CIA would start a civil war in China.
Depending on how the Chinese Civil War goes, the U.S. could then ramp up supplies to their favorite "Moderate Rebel" group until they win, they could attempt a combined air and land invasion into territory held by the rebels, or force negotiations with Bejing.
>mass evacuations of civilians to Japan, Philippines, and SK.
No. They stay and defend the island. Air defense and counterbattery. Also some naval sinkings
you could do ALLLLLLL this, or you can just blow up all the nuke plants, the Dam and fingerblast Beijing with high explosives on day 1
>Blow up all the nuke plants
Many of China's nukes are on mobile launch platforms in rural areas. Constantly moving too. Destroying the missle won't necessarily cause a full nuclear explosion, and would only cause damage withing a small radius in the middle of nowhere.
>Blow up the 3 Gorges dam
That would likely require a low-yield nuclear missile, basically guaranteeing a Chinese Nuclear response. It would also kill nearly 100,000,000 people, mostly civilians and displace another 400,000,000 creating the greatest humanitarian catastrophe in history.
Even if this plan worked, and there was no Chinese nuclear retaliation, and the U.S. won handily, you do know that the American taxpayer would be footing the bill for humanitarian aid for the next 200 years, right?
The Chinese Civil War 2.0: Erectric Boogaroo plan causes fewer civilian casualties and makes the U.S. less directly culpable.
I am sorry, your point is?
Me: Big smart
You: Big dumb
whats the problem with 100m casualties?
perhaps they shouldnt start shit right where most of their population is?
and i am talking about nuclear plants, you know the kind that produces 2 headed carp in the run off pool
>perhaps they shouldnt start shit right where most of their population is?
you're a fricking moron.
>kill nearly 100,000,000 people, mostly civilians and displace another 400,000,000 creating the greatest humanitarian catastrophe in history.
Is that not the point? Tough as a geologist I can tell you that you don't need a nuke to collapse that damn you simply need regular bunker busters to compromise it, once gravity damns start to go things get interesting due to the weird way unconsolidated sediment behaves when subjected to a great deal of kinetic force.
And unless the nuke was part of a bunker buster that could penetrate the damn structure prior to detonating its actually not that effective against hard targets.
Chinese nuclear response would be intercepted and also give us justification to nuke the entire Chinese coast and wipe the disgusting barbarians out once and for all.
I like the "Mujahideen the Uighurs" plan, but from a /k/ perspective pulling a Korean War pt. 2 before crossing the Yalu and fighting through Liaoning to Beijing would be objectively cooler, even if it's absolutely impossible until America sets up a comprehensive SDI successor that effectively makes ICBMs obsolete. If you did do that, you could focus on seizing the capitol and securing the capitulation of the Tier 1/2 port cities and force the government into the interior, cutting them off from not only their coastal supply lines but also the majority of their industrial base.
take the ports, drop the chinks
they seem to think the US will sit there and watch them perform, thats how lacking of experience they are
Just blockade Chinese ports. They'll resort to cannibalism immediately. (They never actually stopped being cannibals)
Nobody wants ti invade China. In a war, China would get its cost bombed and be blockaded until they starve or civil war erupts.
>China would get its cost bombed and be blockaded
lol
moron
And what if...China fights back? What if China don't just sit and take it, and instead they start breaking blockade, sending their bombers and missiles to attack USA?
>sending their bombers and missiles to attack USA?
the world rejoice.
They would first run into the second largest air force in the world, the US Navy. Soon followed by the largest air force in the world, the US Air Force.
Look, we get it, you need those 5 renmimbi per post to feed your family. But you can't argue away facts. China fighting anywhere past the immediate vicinity of its shores is a non-starter - as soon as they sail out of their own missile and aircraft range, the tyranny of distance turns right around and against them. The blockading force would have use of bases all around them as china has VERY seriously pissed off their neighbours and convinced them that unless china's imperial ambitions are checked, it'll be like japan in the 30s all over again. They're left fighting an uphill battle against an encirclement that can be adapted and augmented with air power & satellite surveillance as force multipliers. No amount of fleet tonnage will solve that problem.
so china will somehow magically defeat all the navies and airforce of the first and second island chains, defeat the US navy, which also happens to be the 2nd largest airforce in the world, and then invade US airspace to bomb americans by beating the USAF which is the largest airforce?
Words are easy to say but reality tends to be harsher than that.
Are you implying that US navy will operate inside the first and the second island chain?
I think US Navy will frick off and preffer to fight against Civilian vessels in straits, terrorizing them wtih threats to not go to China, but they would never go even close to China out of fear of meeting the fate of Moskva cruiser. US Navy would probably be telling American government what they want to hear - just a few more days of bombing, and Kiev...sorry, just a few more days of blockade and BEIJING will start negotiating surrender! I swear, we calculated everything! And we will have threads here with "The 894 day of "All China Famine in 3 days"".
Is yellow fever really insane enough to compare US to fricking russia but fail to see the direct parallel to it that is china?
a ground invasion of China would be impossible.
Their mega cities are too big for infantry to clear. it would be literally impossible.
Send the buckbroken pidors in human waves to chyna
What does it mean exactly?
It means muttards itt are exactly that: mutt morons
>You fool! you fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asian!
What the frick is this fan fiction you absolute mongoloid?
Biden would fight on the side of china
Implessive, as a chang from changsha, I’m devastated by this hypothesis, and deeply demoralized by the sheer amount of shitposts. I decided that I will not defend china, instead I will flee to the US and breed their women.
You do realize a race war results in a white American victory and extermination of 100 million muds/jews within 6 months? There won't be a multipolar world but rather a practically disarmed world at the mercy of merciless american empire. 50 Nuclear attack subs will sink or steal every major shipment on the sea lanes. Medicine, food, fertilizer, and energy will cease to move. Society will collapse. And heartless white killers will stalk the ashes of global civilization feeding on you all for the sheer joy of murder.
>Sinoschizo thread #3937283
filtered
Ban all Sinoshizos
Rangeban all East Asian IPs
>100k Chinese dead
>PLA losses during the battle of Taiwan were roughly 7 to 1, beach landings were a massacre as expected
>The battle is still ongoing, of course, because bug generals hear this and say "So you mean we only need to send 8x as many men for the next wave?"
>NATO
>at war with china
>????
Look, if you're gonna make up a scenario make it least somewhat realistic.
So how are we going to deal with the Chinese living in the US and NATO countries when the invasion happen? Lock them up in camps like we did with the Japanese?
least schizophrenic mutt smart-ass map
No gun
>Tell me how you are gonna stop mach 10 missiles fired from 1500km away
Firstly the US had something similar in the 60s called Sprint which could move at mach 10, however it was known and remains known that whenever you move faster than mach 6 though the atmosphere a sheath of plasma excited by friction will form around the missile. To provide any sort of guidance you need to blast that missile with high frequency and high amplitude transmissions, indeed they required an entire generator system based on the ground in order to provide the needed energy. The maximum distance this was possible was about 50 miles and about half that in practical terms because the atmosphere the atmosphere was nearly opaque to radio transmission of such high frequency and amplitude.
So to provide terminal guidance to a missile moving that quickly you would require a ground based(or very large ship) sort of energy to transmit your guidance to the missile and it would require a line of sight, which isn't so bad when you are firing a Sprint up at an incoming warhead, but if you are firing at a ship or ground target line of sight isn't even close to the 25 mile range of Sprint. This normally wouldn't be a problem for radio transmissions but you need directed radio pulses to the missile just to speak with it so it does matter in this instance.
There are ways around this problem, you could have the missile slow down rapidly as it nears its target, which is one the reasons I assume the Chinks are so interested in maneuvering vehicles. Now assuming that your target hasn't moved outside of the maneuvering vehicle's envelope of attack it can then use its own internal systems for guidance or receive outside guidance much easier. Given it is now essentially guiding under Mach4 it can indeed be interdicted with currently available systems. Now is there time to do so? Depends on the circumstances. Is this system worth implementing? I don't know I don't have the exact specifications.
>moron who don't understand satellite guidance, missiles networking and plasma. Proceed to post a wall of text on outdated knowledge
So you have nothing to countermand my assertions? What sort of transmission is the plasma sheath not opaque to that you ca get information through it? Microwaves? You are the one claiming you can provide terminal guidance to an object surrounded by a plasma sheath, not me. Provide something that can actually be assessed you assmad chink, you can't just make bold assertions without giving even the barest information that can be checked. Are you suggesting that some unique shape of the vehicle breaks up the sheath and allows it to receive terminal guidance? What is the secret sauce that the Chinks have supposedly implemented to circumvent this inherent limitation to hypersonic travel in the lower atmosphere?
The Sprint had a nuke because guidance was shit at the time so you could hardly expect it to kill a warhead by ramming it or conventional shrapnel when detonated in close proximity. Like most ballistic missiles the Pershing relized in inertial guidance to get it near the target when moving at high speed. That's fine because it was aimed at stationary targets. Its initial travel was at Mach 8, but the warhead is coming down at least than Mach 4 simply due to slowing due to friction without any propellent. So it could use internal radar for terminal guidance. Which is why I suggested the same thing for the Chink missile, except its targets move at speeds greater than 30 knots.
>Which is why I suggested the same thing for the Chink missile, except its targets move at speeds greater than 30 knots.
what do you think an AESA radar search cone is at 25km?
Chink you answered none of the questions posed to you in this thread so I will ask again, unless the vehicle is slowing down how will it receive terminal guidance? How will it receive any information that isn't from a very nearby source of very strong radio or microwave transmissions? Secondly how will it use any radar if it is going Mach 10 an surrounded by a sheath of plasma opaque to radar emissions, it couldn't blast through the sheath let alone receive any meaningful radar returns? Answer the question or accept that it's not traveling Mach 10 during terminal guidance.
Now that said I assume despite your esl diction that you are asking it if can find a carrier once it does slow down and begin a volume search for a target matching the one given it when it launched, correct? Well the smallest aesa i can find is from Raytheon with a volume of 71 x 37cm which is acceptable assuming chinks have an equivalent. Larger and more capable radars will require mor space with all that implies for the performance of the vehicle and the size of the warhead. I would assume that the glide vehicle would enter a search pattern to sweep its radar cone about until it finds the target so its size is somewhat moot. This isn't about finding the target once the missile decelerates the issue is how quickly it can do it and if the target is even in a location it can physicals reach anymore, Being a glide vehicle helps since it can turn around, but that necessitates yet more time and makes it a target for interdiction.
Chinks are funny, you can describe to them that a weapon system they have isn't total shit, het unless it is an instant guaranteed they get offended. It's as if they don't know what area denial is or that even a relatively ineffective weapon can be credible threat and allow them to frick with their opponent. This also isn't for the chink its for anyone else here who has to argue with them or is earnestly interested.
>I will ask again, unless the vehicle is slowing down how will it receive terminal guidance? How will it receive any information that isn't from a very nearby source of very strong radio or microwave transmissions? Secondly how will it use any radar if it is going Mach 10 an surrounded by a sheath of plasma opaque to radar emissions
ignorant moron, can't you read? This anon explained it pretty well
Already told him he was a moron back chink, don't rely on others do your own work for that 45 cents.
>morons reusing the plasma sheath meme (because they were jerking off to Russian plasma stealth memes 10 years ago) in 2023
Plasma doesn't prevent communication, vatnik. You can beam a signal directly through it like Sprint, use an antenna poking through it like NASA or the PLARF, trail an antenna behind it, couple into it electrically and use the plasma itself as an antenna, and probably a few other things I don't know of.
Firstly the Ruskies are morons who claim to have magical hypersonic weapons free of known limitations as well. Secondly we've tried antennas since the 60 but to my knowledge there are three problems: 1) it gets so hot that the antenna has trouble surviving for any length of time, 2) plasma still forms around the antenna even it if trailing in the wake of the missile, 3) turbulence tends to damage what specialized materials can withstand the temperatures.
>couple into it electrically and use the plasma itself as an antenna
It's weakly conductive, that's part of the problem to begin with.
You can blast it like Sprint but that vastly limits the maximum range of communication and the minimum size of what assets can communicate it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8749528/
Go to the references and you can find a bunch of papers by actual Changs complaining about these issues. I have yet to see the problem solved.
explain why DF-21 and DF-26 can hit moving ships then? The mutts wanted to bomb the Chinese when they started to make the islands, but after one ASBM test, all the mutt carriers ran away.
Can they? May I see the test footage? Or just the telemetry, or even just the actual claims by the PLAN? And if so what is the velocity of the warhead during terminal guidance? Is is below fricking Mach 5? If so then the point stands as presented.
>my point stands!
Post proofs American and China are both wrong about Chinese weapons.
>Firstly the US had something similar in the 60s called Sprint which could move at mach 10
Sprint had a nuclear warhead.
Also, are you aware of how Pershing IIA worked? They had terminal guidance onboard.
>Naval invasion of Taiwan is impossible
>Let's try naval invasion of mainland China, that's gonna go great
>South Korea moves through North Korea
>Oh, the Indians are gonna attack over Himalaya mountains and Tibet, that terrain is easy to move forces through
>I have a good feeling about this
>Iran is sitting this one out due to civil unrest.
>How would this play out?
Israel nukes Iran for the lulz
I heard people were in here talking shit about the LCS program?
Pipelines can pop, ships can sink, grain can be soiled. China has little to gain from a hot war unless we start to believe those china failing posters which is never wise.
https://oec.world/