Why is that? How different are Block 20 F-22s compared to Block 30/25s? And finally what is it about the F-22 that makes it so expensive compared to the F-35?
https://breakingdefense.com/2023/06/house-authorizers-would-block-f-22-divestments-end-funding-for-arrw-hypersonic-program/
How different are Block 20 F-22s compared to Block 30/25s?
Their onboard electronics are enough that they'd need a significant refit in order to make them combat capable.
>what is it about the F-22 that makes it so expensive compared to the F-35?
Economies of scale; there are about 1000 F-35s in existence, versus 185 F-22s.
>Economies of scale; there are about 1000 F-35s in existence, versus 185 F-22s.
I assume that's why the Zumwalts and more notably the ammo for it's gun was so expensive, yeah?
Yes, the Navy cut the order from 32 ships to three, which caused the cost of AGS ammo to go from ~$25,000 per round to utter insanity.
>I assume that's why the Zumwalts and more notably the ammo for it's gun was so expensive, yeah?
It was expensive because the AGS gun tried to do with a 155mm full bore extra long projectile what a 240-406 mm gun with a subcaliber sabot could do off the shelf. Or translated into normalspeak, it was intentionally sold as an achieveable pie-in-the-sky project to maximize the looting opportunity trough cost-plus contracts. The more expensive something is, the more loot a military subcontractor brings home.
Long range gunfire is no alien concept to the USN, but instead of piggybacking off earlier research done in the 50-60-70s and present a cheap, off the shelf solution that would work straight out of the box, they tried to build a gun system that required unobtanium alloys and plasma based propellant to work. From an engineering viewpoint, it was a pure scam presented as high technology.
line of sight projectiles and boats above the waterline are gay
Given the AGS is being removed what do you think will be the future of long range gunfire? I imagine missiles and multirole aircraft will take over that role unless the navy decides to make a modern-day battleship of some thing.
they want to make it a Type-055, but its not possible, so so humiliating shit will happen untill the boat is quietly scrapped and replaced with some diesel-electric "arsenal-ship" years behind whatever "le Chinx-bugz™" have
Long range gunfire has been dead and will remain dead until railguns advance to the point that they're cheap as frick per round and even then it'll only be for fire support on stationary targets and not for engaging actual threats to the ship.
Railguns sound pretty cool
>In 2010, the United States Navy tested a BAE Systems-designed compact-sized railgun for ship emplacement that accelerated a 3.2 kg (7 pound) projectile to hypersonic velocities of approximately 3,390 m/s (7,600 mph; 12,200 km/h; 11,100 ft/s), or about Mach 10, with 18.4 MJ of kinetic energy. It was the first time in history that such levels of performance were reached.
Damn shame we might not see one in service for decades probably
>Given the AGS is being removed what do you think will be the future of long range gunfire? I imagine missiles and multirole aircraft will take over that role unless the navy decides to make a modern-day battleship of some thing.
I think long range guided ballistics are dead. Rocket propelled PGMs do that job far cheaper. A MLRS battery on the Zumwalt firing GMLRS with unitary warhead would have delivered everything the AGS was supposed to do at a tiny fraction of the cost. But military procurement is largely a scam, so that didnt happen. If there was a risk of serious war with a peer opponent you would see a massive shakedown in American military procurement to root out the corruption masquerading as "incompetence".
>thinking AGS was because of any reason other than boomers mandating muh naval gunfire
And they were either gigahomie moronic, or they got conned into supporting some ridiculous schizotech mealticket. Or both.
The USN already had a heavy naval gunfire design in the '70s. The 8'' heavy cruiser-style gun was reasonably successful, the only reason it didn't get adopted was the (ironically) missile-centric view of warfare at the time. It could've been improved (polygonal gain-twist rifling for reduced erosion, Gerald Bull's tricks) for much cheaper than building a new gun in a completely new caliber from scratch (and, despite the 155 mm caliber, it was entirely incompatible with existing artillery).
The F-22 required a lot of R&D because it had never been done before, the F-35 could piggyback off of a lot of the raptor's development despite its own development issues so it's cheaper, production costs also decrease as time goes on and the raptor got screwed by congress
F-35 is also still in production, while F-22's have been out of production for a long time now. The Raptor was ahead of its time and still doesn't have an adversary in the current environment.
>The Raptor was ahead of its time and still doesn't have an adversary in the current environment
nos vidanya comrade john from kansas™
>*hits k77m button
>banks 90*
>vsplesk-1 !
>thinking the su-57 can compete
lol
lmao even
>*hits k77m button
>banks 90*
>missile flies off into nowhere, never having detected anything
>gets unceremoniously executed by an AMRAAMS
FTFY
Your shitty vapourware would get mogged by western 4.5gens, let alone F-22s or F-35s. Deal with it sub-Black person.
>Your shitty vapourware would get mogged by western 4.5gens
It would even get mogged by Ukrainian Mig-29 or Su-27 with AMRAAM
B8 or underage and thought top gun maverick was real
>top gun maverick
They didn't even destroy a plane in maverick.
God that movie was such pozzed shit
>banks 90*
>crashes
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/12/24/new-russian-su-57-stealth-fighter-crashes-during-tests-a68727
it was the first production unit of that plane
now you quit that or ill post some VTOL F35 action, or even some "oops i forgot auto-pilot was off mode!" carrier landing vidya, and you wont like it
How about this for some VTOL action?
its not fair, I cant post ~~*my*~~ vidya
fight fair homosexual
Even if 899 F-35 had crashed they would be unable to match the crash rate Su-57 had achieved during its start of "operational" service in BBC POCCNN.
>the f35 fears the BBC-CNN
this just confirms what the world already knows
>the suck-huy 57 fears to even show its air intakes with exposed compressor fans, let alone western aircraft
sorry, were not prostitutes over here on the "winning team" we dont show our compressor fans to just anyone
>winning team
>israel shot down cave men with id4 gear
good comparison
>israel shot down cave men
>those "cave men" were still better than any soviet or chink subhuman
>MUST DEBOOOOOOOOOOOOONK
>DEBOOOOOOOOOOOOONK
HURRRY
>DEBOOOOOOONK HIM
>'simon pheonix, mdk ,wrong think
>scramble officers!
chimpout
Full scale sperg out
ahahahaha thanks for the laugh vlad. you must be drinking the antifreeze from your MiG again.
Don't accuse me of being him because I'm laughing along with you but fricking hell
>Today the Americans recognise that if there its one aircraft to compare with the F-22, it is the MiG-31. First of all, it has a more powerful radar. Secondly, its missiles have a bigger payload and better range than the missiles on the F-22. The MiG-31 is faster than the F-22. Its dynamics field of interception is greater. The MiG-31 is in fact the most versatile interceptor with the best abilities in target interception.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/mig-31bsm-foxhound-vs-f-22-raptor-which-heavyweight-jet-would-reign-supreme-in-air-to-air-combat
This has turned into a goldmine thread for me
I
R
S
T
C
O
P
E
>deboooooooooonked
why are you crying?
no banan=no comply
Because its fricking old and its production line ceased to exist. The f-35 is not only more advancer, it also has a more developed production line that allows it to be mass produced. F-22 does not have that and the air force much rather focus on the NGAD than to rely on outdated relics.
>because it's fricking old
Compared to what plane?
F-35. Electronics have come a long way.
No. There's a legitimate risk of the stealth technology getting recovered and sent to China. Training them to use air defense systems is much cheaper and faster anyway.
>F-35. Electronics have come a long way.
what about its helmet?
I Heard it snaps the chicken necks of its pilots if under 165lbs
how many pilots are 165lbs or under lol?
how many necks have been snapped so far?
>Americans
>under 165 pounds
Highly doubt any snaps, just recoverable injuries
Strain of helmet in conjunction with ejection
>female
Pilots are the issue
In spite of the safety issue they lowered/lifted minimum height/weight for the plane, just to up diversity numbers
I think you had to be over 5’4 before
The F-15 was produced in 1972 and within 25 years was replaced by the Raptor. The Raptor is already over 25 years old today, by comparison. The situation mirrors the F-15/F-14 and the F-16/F-18 situation a bit. The F-15/F-14 were highly advanced fighters for their time, and pioneered a number of features that would eventually become standard. Unfortunately, they were expensive to produce and, ultimately, unnecessarily advanced compared to adversaries. See: Combat Record.
The expense of the F-15/F-14 was one of the reasons they ran the F-16/F-18 program, which was partially designed to produce a cheaper fighter to pair with the F-15/F-14 as a "high-low" mix of planes. "high" meant planes built for maximum performance to combat the best enemy planes, and a "low" element to produce enough planes to be competitive in an attritional fight. Ultimately, the cheapness of the F-16/F-18 resulting from widescale adoption, continual upgrades, and the mass production made the F-15/F-14 redundant once the F-22 came around. There was only so much money for planes and the F-15/F-14 was too expense to pair with F-22/F-35.
Exactly the same thing is happening with the F-35, widescale adoption, continual upgrades, and the mass production is making it a superior alternative to pair with the next generation of planes. The F-22 will soon be retired for 6th Gen and F-35 will provide the "mass" of fighters in case of an attritional battle.
F22 has been done for 10 years, the F35 answers none of the pacific questions, and is almost SOLELY for israeli theatre action
the NGAD coudlnt arrive tomorrow if it was a day too soon
literal schizobabble
F-35 is highly successful in every possible role for a fighter
>4 missiles
>chicken neck pilots
>cant have a working engine
>20 flight days per year
look congress already knows about this, the .pdf is a ctrl+f away from you in this thread
be better
>making shit up to cope
F-35 is a complete success as an aircraft and there's nothing you can do about it
>"f-35 is a complete disaster as an aircraft and everything you have said is true, unequivocally"
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/hasc-report-finds-that-f-35c-lacks-the-range-to-strike-enemy-targets/
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/why-america-s-f-35-stealth-fighter-isn-t-good-enough-for-israel
https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/air-force-general-warns-f-35-still-far-from-ready-for-war-problematic-jets-not-worth-including-in-war-plans
i mean very not good, bud
>impotent seething
F-35 is the most successful fighter plane of the century
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davedeptula/2020/07/20/f-35-problem-child-or-on-track-for-success/
I'm a stupid butthole so I'm actually reading these
>https://theaviationgeekclub.com/hasc-report-finds-that-f-35c-lacks-the-range-to-strike-enemy-targets/
>"The F-35C's 670 nautical mile range is woefully inadequate"
>btw the F/A-18 it's replacing had a 440 nautical mile range
>https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/why-america-s-f-35-stealth-fighter-isn-t-good-enough-for-israel
>the text is literally "We demand you give Israel F-22s"
>https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1
>"The F-35 still hasn't been approved for full-rate production and remains in limited procurement"
>we've only built 935 of them so far
>https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/air-force-general-warns-f-35-still-far-from-ready-for-war-problematic-jets-not-worth-including-in-war-plans
>absolute schizoposting claiming the US is about to cancel the F-35 and shift back to F-16s entirely
>???
Actually I now ask "Who the frick is Military Watch Magazine?" and a quick glance shows that it's only existed since 2017, its editors are anonymous and it's mostly cited in Russian state media, so frick you
Just look at this abomination from them holy shit
is this fantasy football
>who is my running back
and where is Michael Vick?
Actually I'm having a morbid laugh looking at this shithole site now
This is what the "Su-57 mogs F-22" spammer views as a great source of in-depth unbiased news holy frick, he cited it TWICE up here
>SHOIGU!!!!
>SHITPOSERAV
LOOK AT YOU
GIVE ME FRICKING AMMO FOR MY SUCK-DICK57
>Russia introduces new Javelin-proof T72
>why North Korea supplying arms to Russia proves they're winning
>T14s and Su-57s are overwhelming Ukraine and destroying the millions of American and British troops secretly fighting there
is it an ironic thing like flat earthers or does anyone seriously believe this
i mean, some flat earthers genuinely believe it too
some (a lot of) humans out there are just that incredible moronic
Have a laugh at the author of every article
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/editorial
>The board is made up of experts in defence and international security based between multiple countries and regions primarily including the United Kingdom, Korea and East Africa.
It's an interesting take but doesn't match up quite as cleanly as you say. The F-14 went extinct entirely because the F/A-18 did everything it could better, safer and cheaper and the F-16 became the Ultimate Workhorse Plane For Everything but, oddly enough, the F-15 outlived the F-22 on both ends.
Astonishingly, F-15 production is still underway and new ones will continue rolling off the assembly line until at least 2026.
if they just fly the F15/18 forever, we'll be ok....
..
right..?
padme.jpg
neither russia nor china have produced a better fighter, so yes
Suck-muh-dick-57 has 5+ confirmed westoid kills
did it crash onto them?
>did it crash onto them?
yes, yes it did in fact
>nooooooooo not my heckin su30' arinooooooo
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
What does China have? From what I've read they have the J-10, 11, 16, and 20, also some Russian Sus
To add, the J-11 and 16 look ugly as sin
they look as ugly as any flanker, disgusting from the side but ok from the front and the top
>the final revision is literally called the Sex Eagle II
its surprisingly small
I’ve said over and over to give the F-22s to Ukraine. Yeah it’ll cost a pretty penny to maintain them during combat ops but Lend-Lease money could cover it at least in part. True 5th gen stealth and LPI radars would junk Russian AD and seal-club 4th gens until the Russians stayed grounded. That would be a game-changer. If they’re going to be retired why not? Fear of Ukrainians selling parts / data to Russia? Trust them to take care of that internally — and it’s not like Russia could do anything with the tech anyway.
>I’ve said over and over to give the F-22s to Ukraine. Yeah it’ll cost a pretty penny to maintain them during combat ops but Lend-Lease money could cover it at least in part. True 5th gen stealth and LPI radars would junk Russian AD and seal-club 4th gens until the Russians stayed grounded. That would be a game-changer. If they’re going to be retired why not? Fear of Ukrainians selling parts / data to Russia? Trust them to take care of that internally — and it’s not like Russia could do anything with the tech anyway.
This is what the weapons were made for anyway, to "FIGHT RUSSIA"
well, here we are
and its time to use them for the purpose God intended!
t. ben wallace/lindsey graham/dan crenshaw
lol frick ukraine they shouldn't get any of our 5th gen toys
It's crazy to think how fricking old the F-22 actually is
In some ways technology moves faster than ever but in others it feels like it moves slower than it did in decades
It's moving at about the same pace in that regard as well, we just aren't privy to it.
>muh UFOs
eat shit /x/tard
meanwhile in reality every wealthy nation on earth has already publicly expressed the trillions of dollars and decades of work from tens of thousands of hyper trained professionals that it will take to field sixth generation planes by 2040
its going to be easier to make toy drones that go badaboom,
im certain of it
I didn't mean UFOs, I meant aerospace tech is moving at the same pace, it's just all locked away and classified until it's not.
>f22
>cover art depicts yf22
ONE JOB
this new schizo thats been shitting up fighter related threads today with his absolute su57 delusion is pretty hilarious
yes dear, im sure your wood screw assembled no s-duct havin russian manufacturing standards 10 total production run hangar queen su57 is very stronk and can totally fight western jets
>balsa-wood Su-57 in single digit production shits on entire regions of westoid waffle planes
brrrrrrr muh landig gear is cold gomrade
>shits on entire regions of westoid waffle planes
has literally never happened, did it come to you in a dream or did your handler feed it to you?
>did your handler feed it to you?
look i had a powerpoint at 010:00
dont blame me,
>le rivets
am i rite?
>fires missile
>banks 90*
>nothin personal comrade
we're witnessing a hysterical breakdown in real time
if we document it,
will anyone learn from it?
should we
>frick ya muddah
it or not?
or what tag do we use now?
literal schizobabble, he's haunted by all the times he was humiliated and publicly shamed
give me agent-nonce-sayer
he literally can't produce a coherent sentence now, he's probably crying
Someone explain this picture to me, wtf is happening?
it's a deranged bunkertroony that's been buck broken by /k/ so he spams the board until he gets a ban nowadays
he always uses the same pictures, calls you CIA glowie and straight-up ignores your points acting like a spambot
58588423
quitit
i want agent-nonce-sayer hes the most fun, and been here the longest
Why the frick did they stop production? Would it really kill them to trickle out a single plane every year?
>Why the frick did they stop production? Would it really kill them to trickle out a single plane every year?
what do you literally do with no helmet, @$230million per airframe, and only 20 flying days a year?
no helmet? is this the new peak oil schizo?
>no helmet? is this the new peak oil schizo?
its just reality, unless you want to point your nose at angry-aircraft
Did the 2008 financial crisis really lead to the F-22 being cancelled or was it just a coincidence?
There was always going to be a doctrinal balance change, keep in mind that even the largest ever envisioned F-22 production run would have had "only" 750 planes in it
>tfw you are so ahead of your time you have no air to air adversary and you are obsolete only because you were so advanced no one was even 30+ years close to you in stealth capability
How does the Lockheed peeps who worked on this probably feel right now? How would you feel if you literally did your job so good that no one even was close to you so much so you die before you even see your creation fulfill its destiny.
>How does the Lockheed peeps who worked on this probably feel right now?
Fabulous?