I don’t think Abrams is a good fit. They need quantity more than quality, so hundreds and hundreds of Leo1’s, more leo2’s, more attack helicopters, and dozens of f16’s. And hundreds and hindreds of ifv that use 25mm, 30mm, and 40mm rounds that have atgm’s
>Are you implying Abrams are a more qualitative tools than Leo2s
NTA but arguably yes, though not in any metric that matters in the field, IMO. >attack helicopters
Arguably, as without long-range ATGMs attack helos are just flying MLRS platforms in this war, on both sides. >or F16s
As they're currently (somehow) more vaporware than ol' Abrams has been, yes. At least until Ukraine has at least 12 of them in-country and ready to sortie.
In any event, the Ukrainians could still do with more Bradleys and artillery, first and foremost.
NTA
IMO lots of F-16s with HARMs pods, targeting pods and standoff weapons like JSOW and SDBs would make the biggest difference.
The only reason we are seeing trench warfare is because neither side controls the sky to cut supply to those trenches.
dude, there are not that many Leopards in service. There are MORE M1s in US service and reserve than Leopards, where the frick did you get the idea it was the opposite?
There were 6565 Leopard 1’s made and the difference is that they are completely phased out and we can send all of the ones in storage. The only reason we haven’t sent more is Swiss interference but we are hoping for workarounds. So hundreds or maybe thousands can be sent which would have an impact. Leo 1’s are the right balance of disposable and survivable tech that has an edge over Russian hardware.
In contrast, the Abrams is still in use, still considered a top notch system, so the USA is going to be reluctant sending in large quantities. In the entire conflict I can only see USA sending 100 max.
3 months ago
Anonymous
dude you have no idea what you're talking about, just stop
3 months ago
Anonymous
After that over 2 years of war, USA has only sent 31 Abrams because it is seen as a prestige weapons system and USA does not want to risk it. I do not think they will send hundreds more and it will only be a trickle. In contrast, Ukraine could build up over 1,000 Leopard 1A5’s and T-72’s which would have more impact than a trickle of Abrams.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yeah dude that's why they sent 31, so they could... lose 31, which would have the same morale effect.
Frick off with this ziggeroid talking point.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>seen as a prestige weapons system and USA does not want to risk it
We are not Russians. Equipment is made to be used. If it breaks, then it breaks and we make a better one. Those tanks are also no longer used by us, so newsflash: we did make a better one, and then another, and then another. We did this decades ago.
Please tell me the timeframe for sending 1,000+ Abrams to Ukraine, Because it certainly isn’t happening. It took ages of pressure and wrangling to get even 31. Plus, they are kept in the back for support rather than leading armor pushes so they will likely not lose many.
USA does not want a steady stream of destroyed Abrams on tvs since that is embarrassing. When USA deploys them, they have air superiority and use combined arms so theh know they will lose few. Ukraine does not have that.
They need mass quantity as fast as possible which means: >hundreds to thousands of phased out Russian and Euro tanks >hundreds to thousands of modern and phased out IFV.
Ukraine is moving to having the CV90 and Lynx as their main ifv in the future, and the fuchs as their main apc. These will be 100x more useful than Abrams.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Plus, they are kept in the back for support rather than leading armor pushes so they will likely not lose many.
not subtle enough dude, gonna have to try harder.
3 months ago
Anonymous
May we see any footage whatsoever of Abrams engaging in combat in Ukraine?
3 months ago
Anonymous
just stop. We know what line you gays have been pushing, we saw it months ago with the Challenger "they're being held at the rear so they don't get lost" no one employs tanks like this, shut the frick up dumbass.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Take your meds.
The AFU is still using its tanks and we have footage of them doing so. There's no footage of abrams being used on the front because it's not happening. It's that simple.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Please tell me the timeframe for sending 1,000+ Abrams to Ukraine
I don't know. It's impossible to tell without actually having inside knowledge. What we do know is that they are allowed to borrow money and buy as many as they want, and at its peak, GD was producing 800/annum. >Plus, they are kept in the back for support rather than leading armor pushes so they will likely not lose many.
Ukraine is not currently engaged in an offensive operation. So why would there be any armor pushes? Is it more likely that it's being kept as a QRF element to provide for elastic defense? Who knows, but you certainly don't, and your analysis comes from an alcohol-fueled, addled, rape trauma'd, vatBlack person mind. >SA does not want a steady stream of destroyed Abrams on tvs since that is embarrassing
Saudis lost tons of Abrams. We just sold them more. It's equipment. We understand that some of it will be destroyed. >When USA deploys them, they have air superiority and use combined arms so theh know they will lose few. Ukraine does not have that.
Wow, then maybe it would be smart not to make moronic pushes like the Russians just because you have a new tank. It's almost like they don't think the Abrams is an invincible wonderweapon. >Ukraine is moving to having the CV90 and Lynx as their main ifv in the future, and the fuchs as their main apc. These will be 100x more useful than Abrams.
We like to take an "all of the above" approach. Abrams will be there if the supply depots can handle them, and so will other equipment.
3 months ago
Anonymous
What's embarassing is your total ignorance and how loudly and proudly you keep displaying it evne in the face of multiple people telling you that you're being an ignorant moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>seen as a prestige weapons system and USA does not want to risk it
We are not Russians. Equipment is made to be used. If it breaks, then it breaks and we make a better one. Those tanks are also no longer used by us, so newsflash: we did make a better one, and then another, and then another. We did this decades ago.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's not because it's a prestige weapon, it's because we're legally barred from sending the ones we have in stock. In order to send abrams we have to cripple them by removing the armor from them. Since that would involve tearing the whole thing apart, we're only sending newly built abrams without the armor. It's unbelievably stupid, and we only did it to force the Germs to send leopards since they were being gays about not sending anything until the US did. We could have sent 1000 bradleys instead and made an actual palpable impact. Instead we decided to send a parade unit just big enough to DP russia's armata fleet.
3 months ago
Anonymous
> did. We could have sent 1000 bradleys instead and made an actual palpable impact.
Yes 100% those have kicked ass and taken names so hard. The LAV variants use 25mm rounds too and many are being phased out. Should we send them?
>tanks build in the '50 that are good for reactivation
Because America actually considers things like survivability of crew being more efficient than simply letting them all die and replacing them with Asiatic immigrants, whereas ziggers are totally expendable because when they die it is good.
Ukraine’s strategy is to have high kill ratios against Russians and to protect highly trained crew.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>in storage
Dude, most Leo 1s have been either sold to thirdie countries or scrapped by this point. There ar eno thousnads to be sent anymore.
Meanwhile, the yanks have literally thousands of M1s sitting in the desert.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not sure if Switzerland counts as third world.
3 months ago
Anonymous
They arent in NATO so they might as well be
3 months ago
Anonymous
>muh Switzerland
Switzerland never bought or operated Leopard 1s, moron. They went from their own Panzer 68 straight to the Leopard 2A4.
3 months ago
Anonymous
A Swiss government owned company, Ruag, bought old Leopards and they refused to sell them.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Oh noes, that's literally 96 instead of oyur "thousands", and most of 'em in junkyard state. You're being severely delusional.
3 months ago
Anonymous
We have thousands of Abrams, but we absolutely 100% do not export the special sauce DU armor packages (we don't even trust our fellow #ganglosphere buddy Australia with that shit) so they'd need full factory rebuilds before they could be sent to Ukraine. Like "stripped down to the bare metal, cut apart, new bones grafted in, and then sewn back together" levels of work.
Whereas something like the Leopard 1 or 2 could just be sold or donated or whatever.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The original M1s didn’t have any depleted uranium armor and there are plenty that have been sitting in the desert since the 1990s. They still would require extensive refurbishing and upgrades but at least you don’t have to strip them to the bare metal to remove DU.
we haven't sent shit in almost a year now thanks to congress. Imagine if we had continued to send this shit they would probably have at least a few dozen more abrams and bradleys to augment what we already sent. also the lack of artillery shells they desperately need right now.
I read somewhere that Ukraine is only able to fire 2,000 rounds total per day along the entire front line while Russia is firing over 10,000 per day as their supplies are augmented with shipments from North Korea and Iran.
>also the lack of artillery shells they desperately need right now.
That, at least, is not congress's fault.
Or rather, it is their fault that NATO ammunition production is so low since they didn't do anything over the last few decades to correct that state of affairs, but it's not their fault that they haven't sent shells which don't exist.
they only people anywhere close to serious about this war are Ukrainians themselves, then maybe Russians
which sucks for Ukrogoys, since they got duped into a hopeless meatgrinder, as the putinbots were saying all along, US was never serious about Ukraine actually winning
We all know how this goes. One dies, it gets spammed on /k/ for an entire month, then video after video of these things eviscerating Russians will continue to flow endlessly.
As soon as someone with a drone or radio sees one of them they will probably have a bunch of assets try to eliminate it. Russia is so thirsty for propaganda victories that a single disabled Abrams would probably be worth the lives of thousands of men and materiel.
I have been ready for that for over a year now, capped my own post back then saying they are not invincible and will be killed but killing a tank and spamming it for days doesn't win wars.
>Putin: take this to the lab, I want to be producing their sights in 3 months >engineer: yes sir
3 months later >Putin: where are the new sights for our tanks >engineer: we literally can't produce them without a decade of investment in optics and electronics
At least there's a decent chance the crew will survive to be interviewed, explain what happened, and lessons can be learned about how to better use those vehicles.
>One gets scratched, it gets spammed on /k/ for an entire month
fixed that for you
Nah, they didn't even need to scratch that merkava, the only good thing about this spam is to remind us anti-westerners should be rolled over by a tank.
It has been confirmed from all parties that such factual relevant to the case of hostile action within the Avadikkvka situation, that knowledge will be foreth coming at the (from this point) tenday and under half.
Well you see, the cunning rooskies have named have named a domino "Avdiivka" and once they can stay sober enough to lay three of them in a row, Avidiivka will fall. Presumably within the next fortnight.
He has a reputation spanning the better part of two decades as a hack clickbait "reporter" on military affairs. Heck, he's the guy who put the fake-news "F-35 lost to F-16" meme into the mainstream. He's not a POGO member, as far as I can tell; he just likes to write sensationalistic stories for money.
Wait, that's the part of the Kupiansk sector they're meming about?
I'm sure Russia would try and drive an entire years worth of tanks into a swamp, too drive across a swollen river, into another swamp that is within range and sight of enemy artillery on the basis it would be a sneak attack because it's the most moronic thing they could possibly do because they are that fricking stupid; but until they actually do it, it's probably their attempts at diverting ukies elsewhere again.
I dunno about crossing the Oskol, but the AFU is taking the threat to Kupyansk seriously, I've read reports of them establishing firing positions on the west bank in the city itself.
shit still in desert tan, holhols are getting desperate and are rushing these out before they can even paint them proper. combined with all the dramas in their command chain. it's over.
In a few days... >Plink >PHEWSSSS >Ssssssssssssssssssssss >BOOM!!!! >M1 gets destroyed/disabled with a 30yo Russian atgm
And the last wunderwaffe is lost.
What is left? F-16?
>wunderwaffe
why do vatniks project so hard
the only wunderwaffle tank around is the T-14, everyone knows that Abrams is immortal, just better than anything the ruskies actually field
>1970s era ATGM
the M1 IP was already frontally protected against the the gayot and konkurs missile
M1A2, which the ukranian M1A1s were upgraded to roughly the same standard, is protected from ATGMs within a 50-degree frontal arc
>this
It was insufficient against even first gen M1s, requiring a flanking shot to penetrate the lower Hull and a perfect perpendicular angle to defeat the side turret
Drones can provide massed high velocity point fires, anti-armor capabilities, high mobility, and create breakthroughs IOT move infantry and other assets? Fricking news to me.
He's not wrong, there will be claps in the depo's ready to see any interesting damage to Abrams.
Sure we have seen plenty of RPG-7 hits and studied them but has one ever been hit by a 9M120 Ataka? Of course they are going to what to check it out.
What do you mean, Abrams is an old shit, upgraded and capable, but old design wise. MIC wants to make a replacement.
No one will shed a tear for THE TANK if it gets destroyed. You think it'd be a morale hit? Maybe a propaganda fodder? Nobody cares. It's a tank. If the crew survived, job done.
Now let's learn some lessons to apply to M1A3.
Given the Abrams is the only tank in the world wherein the ammo is properly segregated from the crew compartments I'd rather be in an M1Anothing shitbox than even a Leo2 if I know I'm going to get penned.
Well that just makes you a moron who doesn't know about the protection of the Leo 2s hull rack. Or the capability to, you know, just not use said hull rack unless you think you'll have to 1v1 an entire russkie battallion before your next resupply.
>muh wunderwaffe is lsot
Menawhile, that one (1) lost wunderwaffe butchzered several hundred ziggers up to that point and there's another 50 backing it up now with the capabilityy to deliver thousands more. Also, the one (1) you managed to hit subsequently got damaged, recovered, repaired and put back into service.
Well if by very well you mean not exploding like firecrackers any time someone looks at them funny, then sure. The adage that a tank is a tank is extremely reductive, but in the big picture it's mostly correct. T-72's may be qualitatively garbage in comparison, but that doesn't equate to additional capability. Ukraine just has a couple tanks that won't shit themselves to death at the drop of a hat.
Avdiivka? wew, thats one of the few places where ukrainians could be hit from multiple sides... I dont like this. Pics from 70 different angles of the same Abrams disabled spammed on /k/ until summer soon.
>keeping the best optics in the rear where they offer no advanatge
Abrams should be at the front, not attacking but sitting anywhere they can see 3km+.
Ukrainian telegram today has been reporting of a critical situation developing since russian infantry reached the northeastern most buildings. You have to be decisive with Abrams due to their rate of fuel consumption, so I assume now is the time to deploy them for the counter-attack. Either way, it appears that Ukraine is planning to make Avdiivka a massive slugfest to cause maximum damage for as long as possible.
>due to the rate of fuel consumption
my god you people pick up shit from wikipedia, twitter and random youtube videos then make these grand claims and it's like slitting wrists reading it
>and, get this, turn them off when you're not moving them for long periods.
Not him, but I rly doubt you turn off the engine on anything when it's -10C outside. Novehicles won't get it.
>novehicles >"muh dont turn off the engine"
my god stop fricking posting
3 months ago
Anonymous
He's talking about keeping the heater running when it's fricking cold because crews will do that.
I don't know if the old ones the Ukies got have the APU which runs climate control and optics for way less fuel than the turbine.
>You have to be decisive with Abrams due to their rate of fuel consumption
Lol, turbines suck at lower power but not enough that "we can't move them until we are sure", it's more like "for this 500km advance we need twice as many fuel trucks".
It can be an issue for a country without US logi covering a lot of contested ground but if you can't move them in the rear due to fuel concerns you are basically 1944 Germany levels of fricked.
>it appears that Ukraine is planning to make Avdiivka a massive slugfes
They really need to cut off Zelensky from any military decisions at this point. His obsession with holding onto irrelevant settlements in the Donbass at the cost of Ukraine's mobile reserves already cost the the summer offensive last year. I really hope they won't waste too many forces holding Avdiivka just for the sake of PR victories and the belief they can bleed Russia dry like with Bakhmut last year. The trick might've worked in Severodonezk but Russia wasn't mobilized back then.
>attacking your enemy when he has an ammo shortage and is on the brink of exhaustion from a protracted battle is the same as attacking him when he had an extra two month to restock his ammo and relocate forces
Okay Napoelon. Whatever you say. I bet you also think diverting forces during the summer offensive to attack Bakhmut was also some giga smart move.
Wrong. Murrican military analysts advised Ukrainians attack with all their Western gear and all new brigades towards Melitopol early spring. 100k men with a few hundred vehicles, estimated 20% losses in men Burgers thought Ukrainians had everything necessary. Instead, Ukrainians did what they did. Strategic error.
>masters of modern armored warfare and the only ones to have done it in living memory >using their gear, that they know the capabilities of >they tell Zelensky to be decisive and drive on a single axis >liberating Melitpol would cut off the western end of the land bridge and allow the nuke plant to come under control >Zelensky sends units out piecemeal and they are attrited in detail
I mean, what-if-ing it is pretty moot, and who knows if anything different would been achieved if they went with the single axis TEMPOTEMPO rush. However, if they were just going to fight a static defense, then they didn't need a bunch of maneuver assets. That was supposed to be their Valley Forge winter, but the failure to achieve literally anything strategic means that the Western European and American funders have likely written off a Ukrainian victory and are expecting a negotiated peace.
The "military analysts" that told Ukraine that they should assault through mile deep minefields, without air superiority, fire superiority, or even numerical superiority, should unironically kill themselves. Yeah, 50 old leopards and 100 bradleys should do it, just drive them at the enemy and watch them crumble. Oh also if you lose any of them we won't replace them. Also your success will determine whether or not you receive any additional support. We unironically need to dispose of these morons because they clearly demonstrated they're at the same level of intelligence as Russian commanders.
Yes, a combined arms breach is difficult, hazardous, and vulnerable. What Ukraine did, with sending a piecemeal attack into that same defense was even less sensible. They got tangled in the middle of Russian defenses and didn't have other units to advance through them and carry on the attack. >also if you lose any of them we won't replace them
This is a blatant lie. Just the last few weeks, the Biden admin did an end run around GOP congress blocking aid by "gifting" 60 bradleys to Greece while saying if they pass them along to Ukraine, we'll give you a $200 million sweetheart loan.
We're not likely to see another build up of western equipped brigades. They West will keep supplying ammunition and funding to bleed the Russians, but with zero progress over the last year, Everyone is probably just waiting for Ukraine to tire out.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>muh piecemeal
moron. The ukrainian offensive was heavily concetrated on the Robotyne axis, with supplementary operations being almsot token in terms of actual effort.
You have literally less than no idea of what happened there. So stop embarassing yourself by trying to keep talking about it.
>We're not likely to see another build up of western equipped brigades.
LMAO, pure vatBlack person delusion. And it really shows how weak you actually are, Vanya, when "the West is totally going to get tired, ignore the new aid packages that prove otherwise" is the only cope you have left.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The ukrainian offensive was heavily concetrated on the Robotyne axis, with supplementary operations being almsot token in terms of actual effort.
The fighting was heavier in the Bakhmut area, numbnuts
3 months ago
Anonymous
By late summer when the Ukrainians started? No. Also, stop samegayging, ziggie. Nobody is falling for it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>but with zero progress over the last year
The lopsided destruction of hundreds of thousands of russian troops and effective annihilation of the Black Sea Fleet as a functioning fighting force constitute majuor and singificant progress outside of your delusional homosexualry, vatBlack person.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>vatBlack person
I have no idea where that is coming from. I'm an American and I support giving Ukraine more weapons to continue the war. I don't know why you're so reflexively hostile. Not everyone who has doubts about Ukraine's ability to win is a Russophile with a Z tattoo on their forehead.
I did fail to say that I meant "strategic progress," so I apologize for that omission. While the Russians have suffered large losses on land and the Black Sea Fleet (which was always strategically kind of pointless), the front lines haven't really moved since February of last year and the Russians haven't really shown signs that the losses are hurting their war effort no that their on a mostly defensive posture of keeping what they have.
>aid packages
Yes, I point out pretty explicitly that the US is continuing to supply vehicles by pointing to the Greece example. There very much isn't any sign of the Western countries equipping and training another bunch of Ukrainian brigades though.
>muh piecemeal
moron. The ukrainian offensive was heavily concetrated on the Robotyne axis, with supplementary operations being almsot token in terms of actual effort.
You have literally less than no idea of what happened there. So stop embarassing yourself by trying to keep talking about it.
>We're not likely to see another build up of western equipped brigades.
LMAO, pure vatBlack person delusion. And it really shows how weak you actually are, Vanya, when "the West is totally going to get tired, ignore the new aid packages that prove otherwise" is the only cope you have left.
>was heavily concentrated on the Robotyne axis
Yes, they sent units there to push, but they dispatched other brigades to other sections of the front. That lead to the Robotnye offensive bogging down and having no mobile reserves/relief, like I said.
>almost token
No, they had entire brigades in Donbas.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're posting classic false-flag/concern-trolling vatBlack person shit.
>I did fail to say that I meant "strategic progress"
Massively lopsided attrition of russian combat capabilities IS STRATEGIC PROGRESS!
>the Russians haven't really shown signs that the losses are hurting their war effort
This is yet again pure, utter vatBlack person propaganda slop you're posting, Mr-Totally-An-American.
>There very much isn't any sign of the Western countries equipping and training another bunch of Ukrainian brigades though.
Except there is, given continual aid packages and the fact that training operations by the west HAVE NEVER STOPPED. Why do you keep lying like this? Isn't it frickign humiliating to know that you're lying and to know that your lies are so transparently bullshit that you WILL be either ignored as a vatBlack person stooge or called out on them every single time?
>Yes, they sent units there to push, but they dispatched other brigades to other sections of the front.
The Robotyne axis was the clear schwerpunkt of the ukrainian offensive. And no shit did they not send literally everything there. That's NOT how it works, you utter moron. FFS, they already ran into problems of having OVERCOMMITTED on too narrow a front there as it is, which is exactly why it bogged down.
>entire brigades
In other words, token commitments barely able to man the frontline and throw some distractionary pushes.
You're severely delusional and clueless about modern war, ziggie. Again, do yourself a favour and stop talking about things you obviously and evidently know and understant literally less than nothing about.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Massively lopsided attrition of russian combat capabilities IS STRATEGIC PROGRESS!
Russia now has vast amounts of hardened combat troops with exp. in near peer combat, where you can't just call in air support. USA has none and its only getting worse.
Ukraine was creating lots, but then letting them all get killed.
China has none, but they are friends with Russian who can train them.
Exp. Ukrainian troops will not be training NATO because they are all dead.
Has Russia troops face full weight of NATO airpower and is that important? Sure, but NATO airpower has never been pushed over enemy territory against even 2nd tier air defense, and Ukraine War would indicate that today any airpower pushed against moderately well defended targets will be taking a beating.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's not a problem for the US, since it only takes minimal competence to reduce over extension before you get pulled into a catastrophic or even an embarrassing conflict
Reduce defense guarantees, grow faster than all others, embrace all that AI enables while stoking fires elsewhere - what do you really lose this way? Perhaps the position dollar has, and not even that is certain
Of course this sucks for others - it did not quite sink in fully yet, but the public in Poland is waking up to the reality that US is not even attempting to (re)build an army that could credibly fight on our soil. We'd get the Ukraine treatment, so if war, we're screwed, and if peace, Europe is in for a decade of abysmal growth
3 months ago
Anonymous
>reduce defense guarantees
LMAO, you wish, vatBlack person. Also, stop talking to yourself, it's fooling nobody.
>but the public in Poland is waking up to the reality that US is not even attempting to (re)build an army that could credibly fight on our soil
Literally delusional vatBlack person propaganda. PS. Poland is not "your" soil, Vanya, and never will be outside of your zigger delusions. The EU alone would curbstomp your shit-tier army and probably nuke Moscow into cinders if you even just tried for Suwalki.
3 months ago
Anonymous
you feign concern for my country as an excuse to jerk off about how powerful the country you were born in is
it would be insulting if I were to forget you're ultimately just an irrelevant pleb
reality is, at the current trajectory, Rus will test the guarantees to call be bluff, in Estonia or whatever, and the US will have the locals to fight to the last *insert nationality*, make noises that they are totally not folding, and focus on the important theaters instead of the untenable periphery
and that's a bad thing, since I want (You), muttoid, here in a trench, against the Russians
3 months ago
Anonymous
Holy ESL
3 months ago
Anonymous
>muh ESL
quintessential /k/ope
3 months ago
Anonymous
No one can understand what you are trying to say you moron.
3 months ago
Anonymous
you did understand, and can't credibly challenge it, so you distract
3 months ago
Anonymous
No what you wrote is a jumbled up mess of incoherent thoughts
3 months ago
Anonymous
>ukraine >in anyway comparable to an actual NATO member state
Maybe the brits and germans on PrepHole were right about Poles....
3 months ago
Anonymous
come back when US has an actual army in Europe, stationed on the border in my country, ready to begin dying from day 1, and in sufficient numbers
No what you wrote is a jumbled up mess of incoherent thoughts
"I can't follow" is not an argument
3 months ago
Anonymous
Buddy no one can understand your ESL slop
3 months ago
Anonymous
V Corps is based in Poland and has forward deployed two armored brigades, and aviation brigade, an infantry brigade, as well as the stryker brigade in Germany. It also has all the assets and support equipment to put multiple divisions into combat once they arrive from the US. They're whole purpose is to hold the line for the week it will take to get the US based divisions deployed. Keeping the entire army in Poland all the time is nonsensical.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the IBCT is in Romania, homie. Otherwise totally correct.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>there's like 50 guys 100km+ west of Wisła, but more would arrive move to fight, ETA 2 weeks
bare minimum to act like Ukraine treatment is not the default for us is multiple divisions, stationed on the border, where Russians could not help but start killing them
but that is not going to happen, since then US is actually committed to fight instead of promising air superiority and kvetching that it's normal to geofence "our" F35s or whatever
China is far too much of a power for US to credibly commit here, though they will pretend otherwise, since then the locals start thinking they need nukes yesterday, and things slip out of US control
3 months ago
Anonymous
>there's like 50 guys >three brigades
Why are you so fricking stupid? The US literally has almost an entire division in Poland and you're complaining that they aren't at combat ready, standing watch on the border.
Why isn't the Polish Army all lined up on the border? The answer to that is because it would be fricking stupid. There isn't an active war on and there are zero signs of Russia launching an imminent invasion of Poland. That's why the military (Polish and American) is in garrison and not sitting in the field.
People aren't going to sit on their hands and wait for Russians to cross the border. When/if the situation escalates, more troops will be mobilized and they'll move to a higher alert. This is basic, baby level strategy, you moronic, polak noguns.
Fricking war tourists, man...
3 months ago
Anonymous
>let me twist a demand for credible commitment into one of troops lined up in full gear on the border 24/7/365, and claim a win, muh gunz
increase the alert level, and it will only be us lined up on the border, US troops safe in Germany, and the 'almost division' almost committed to defend Poznań to the last man, muttoid
and for the far more likely spot for an incident, in Estonia, nobody but Estonians
and then, the Ukraine treatment
3 months ago
Anonymous
>ponzan
Jesus you are stupid. I'm going to drive in to Chicago today and show other Poles your posts, so that they can feel better about leaving morons like you behind.
When it looks like there will be more of a fight, they'll be put into the field along with other forces that were deployed in the preceding weeks. An entire corps command is there because that's the level of combat power they expect to surge. 3-4 divisions within 2-3 weeks and follow on forces to be organized under a separate organization. The entire Polish Army is only 4 divisions. The US is literally expecting to double your combat power. Half the Polish Army is garrisoned in western Poland as well, are you going to go b***h at them for abandoning Gdansk? It's peacetime you dense moron.
>Estonia
There's a whole NATO battalion in Estonia. Before you babble on about there not being 10 fricking field armies or something stupid, it's because there isn't the infrastructure to support a whole frick load of troops in Estonia. IF AND WHEN there is an immediate need for more, they will be moved as appropriate.
My friend Jan is from somewhere south of Kaliningrad. He once told me that smart people leave Poland and get good jobs out of the country and hard working people also leave Poland to get good jobs out of the country. He told me the only People left in Poland are the lazy and the stupid. This conversation has inclined me to believe him.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I'll tell on you to my Polish acquaintances
You won't, and spare me these verbose efforts at roundabout insults, mutt >Polish Army is stationed in more than one place
Polish army is committed to fight for my country, US is not, that's why where and who is stationed where is a signal, and why I think the 3-4 divisions with remain 2 weeks away in perpetuity >but they have to, NATO is at stake!
they don't, Estonia or even Poland are peripheral countries not worth having a serious war over unless it would be fought by the US, and the US has no army that can do that while maintaining credibility in more important places >no infrastructure
bullshit
3 months ago
Anonymous
>they don't have to
You think we're spending all this fricking money on a performative exercise? If that was the goal, V Corps would be in Brussels and we wouldn't have three fricking brigades on rotation. Same thing with the infantry brigade in Romania. If we just wanted to posture, we have plenty of bases in Germany we could have used. >bullshit
Yes, moron. There isn't a fricking military base in Estonia that can handle an extra 4,000 troops that a brigade would bring. The US has spent a frick load of money on new facilities to support and house the brigades in Poland.
You are unfathomably stupid and you have the critical thinking skills of pond scum. All the evidence points to the Americans being willing to fight in Poland for Poland, but all you're able to do is whine about how they aren't doing stupid shit like keeping an entire field army on the border.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>stationed on the border
there was a stir recently in Poland that regular army wont be stationed at the border - they will be deployed to areas 50-60 km from the border waiting for opportunity for counterattack while specials and national guard will harass invading force and its logistics
- Special operation and its alleged massacres were a trigger to make a firmer stance as original battle plan included falling back hundreds of km before counterattacking from Vistula river after allied forces arrive
3 months ago
Anonymous
exact distances are unimportant, US troops will not fight until Germany is the frontline, and it will not, since Ukraine treatment means a hopeless static meatgrinder with US firmly in control of escalation
3 months ago
Anonymous
60853818
I'm tired of (You), I'll copy my other comment just so it is not distracted from by that wall of cope
you feign concern for my country as an excuse to jerk off about how powerful the country you were born in is
it would be insulting if I were to forget you're ultimately just an irrelevant pleb
reality is, at the current trajectory, Rus will test the guarantees to call be bluff, in Estonia or whatever, and the US will have the locals to fight to the last *insert nationality*, make noises that they are totally not folding, and focus on the important theaters instead of the untenable periphery
and that's a bad thing, since I want (You), muttoid, here in a trench, against the Russians
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Russia now has vast amounts of hardened combat troops with exp.
Except not, because the life expectancy of ziggers on the frontline is too short for them to gather that experience, and the Russian Army is BY DESIGN incapable of learning from experience.
>USA has none and its only getting worse.
USA also has no peers or near peers and as such will always be able to call in that air support.
>Ukraine was creating lots, but then letting them all get killed.
Except not, as Ukraine has been taking much lighter losses than Russia andh as been effectively rotating their units to preserve and build experience, rather than use the russian approach of letting them sit in place until eradicated.
>China has none, but they are friends with Russian who can train them.
The Russians can't even adequately train their own, having thrown their trainer cadre into the frontline and gotten them wiped out back in late 2022.
>Exp. Ukrainian troops will not be training NATO because they are all dead.
Repeating your idiotic vatBlack person projection agian does not change that you're trying to project the stat eof the Russian Army upon the Ukrainian one, subhuman.
>Has Russia troops face full weight of NATO airpower and is that important?
What are you even trying to say here, ESL moron?
>Sure, but NATO airpower has never been pushed over enemy territory against even 2nd tier air defense
All non-western air defense is effectively 3rd "tier" or worse in the face of NATO airpower. When faced with a fourth-rate garbage "army " such as the Russian one, NATO airpower would hold utterly uncontested air dominance and bomb at will within a week.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>IS STRATEGIC PROGRESS
Attrition that fails to achieve battlefield results is not progress. Lee getting slapped back after Antietam and again after Gettysburg didn't matter until Grant's Overland Campaign actually prevented Lee from being able to rebuild his broken forces. The Ukrainians are also atritted and don't have a capability to meaningfully make use of the Russian losses.
>HAVE NEVER STOPPED
Yes they have. They have not in fact tried to train and equip more armored maneuver brigades. The infantry units they're training now are not going to make the backbone of another offensive maneuver force.
>The Robotyne axis was the clear schwerpunkt >And no shit did they not send literally everything there
That they failed to equip with adequate reserves to relieve attributed units and continue forward progress. Sending the maneuver brigades to go assist static defenses was not a good call.
OVERCOMMITTED on too narrow a front
They failed to breach the successive minefields and Russian forces were able to move reinforcements into their way. This happened bot because the front was narrow, but because the attacking brigades didn't have reserve formations to relieve them.
>In other words, token commitments
They did not have many maneuver brigades. Taking a significant portion of your offensive power and spending it in defensive actions up and down the Donbas was not a good use of them. The discord leaks showed that the Ukrainians had only three brigades on the Zaporozhye Axis in March 2023. Failure to concentrate force was a major part of why the 2023 offensives bogged down.
>vatBlack person
Disagreeing with the idea of Ukraine somehow pulling a decisive win out of this doesn't make me Russian, or even someone who thinks nicely of Russia. It's the same way that saying "Hamas isn't going to be able to push the Israelis out of Gaza" doesn't make me a zionist. You're engaging with me emotionally at this point (all the caps lock), and that isn't healthy.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So you're now reduced to brazenly repeating your moronic vatBlack person propaganda slop like a broken record, while throwing in a couple fallacies to try and cover up the stink of your bullshit.
- Massive, one-sided attrition is in fact strategic progress.
- The Ukrainians are, in fact, not nearly as attrited as the Russians and are continously making use of the Russian losses.
- NATO in fact continues to train maneuver units for the Ukrainians.
- You, in fact, continue to know and understand less than nothing about modern war.
- The Ukrainians did, in fact, have plentiful reserves during their offensive. Yet no opportunity to actually use them effectively presented itself, and so they were not committed.
- You are, in fact, behaving EXACTLY like a flase-flagging vatBlack person. Wether this is out of malice or sheer incompetence and ignorance is insubstantial.
You are not and neve rahv eengaged with anyone here in anything resembling good faith, so kindly shove your whining about being called out right back up your ass, subhuman. YOur existence isn't healthy, so kindly do mankind a favour and kys. Or keep embarasisng yourself with this moronic broken record routine you're now engaging in. I guess it's the sole cope you vermin have keft.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The Ukrainians are, in fact, not nearly as attrited as the Russians and are continously making use of the Russian losses.
May I see the use they made?
>NATO continues to train maneuver units
With what vehicles?
>they had plently of reserves they just didn't use them because front line units being attrited in a CAB isn't reason to use them. Most of the reserves for the Zaporozhye offensive were territorial units composed mostly of light infantry.
>You are not and neve rahv eengaged with anyone here in anything resembling good faith
That is all I have done. You're literally raving at the end of your posts now. What do you think that accomplishes?
I support giving Ukraine weapons to continually bleed the Russians, but It's been over a year since either side gained an appreciable amount of territory. I' inclined to believe that Ukraine doesn't have the offensive power to push the Russians back more than I am that they just aren't because of unspecified reasons. You haven't actually refuted what I've said other than shouting "Nuh uh!"
That doesn't make me a vatnik. You're seeing conspiracies in everything, you need to take a break and realize that not everyone who doesn't go all in on whatever it is you're on is a Russian.
3 months ago
Anonymous
of modern armored warfare
Ukraine does not have the air superiority to be pulling a western-style armored assault. If the US mil wanted them to push Melitopol then they should have given them F-16s in early 2023. Now it's fricking 2024 and the only countries giving Ukraine F-16s are tiny irrelevant Euros? An embarrassment for us.
The "military analysts" that told Ukraine that they should assault through mile deep minefields, without air superiority, fire superiority, or even numerical superiority, should unironically kill themselves. Yeah, 50 old leopards and 100 bradleys should do it, just drive them at the enemy and watch them crumble. Oh also if you lose any of them we won't replace them. Also your success will determine whether or not you receive any additional support. We unironically need to dispose of these morons because they clearly demonstrated they're at the same level of intelligence as Russian commanders.
It's the classic problem of people making high level military decisions being politicians who's knowledge is limited to which arms manufacturer gave them the biggest donation.
Then you have generals under them that became generals by kissing the right asses and they aren't about to tell politicians they are fricking moronic.
Ukraine still needs a lot of aid and current politicians seem to think this is some side show instead of a major threat to global security. For some reason they don't seem to understand that if Russia's land grab is successful there are plenty of other nations that might try and land grab of their own.
If anything, Avdiivka has been even more of a success in bleeding the zigger offensive than Bakhmut, and also has more strategic significance if it were to actually fall
>of a success in bleeding the zigger offensive
Bleeding the enemy dry is a moronic cope made up by Falkenhayn when he couldn't take Verdun by storm. It has never worked and people should finally stop pretending it's a valid strategy.
It's not a cope when it's your only option. If the enemy loses tons of men and equipment trying to bash their head against your defensive line, that's tons of men and equipment they can't conserve for a larger and more dangerous push later.
Puccia is already down to ancient T-55s and T-62s and whatever small amounts of new tech they can build by anniversary 2 of monke's special needs operation. There's plenty of time between now and the cap of year 3 for things to get even worse for ziggers.
The idea that Ukraine should just give up these settlements to "avoid bloodshed" is moronic. It assumes that if given these strategically insignificant little towns, Russia will simply call it quits and go home. No. That's not how war works. If Russia takes a town without a fight, they send their army to the next town over and that town gets destroyed instead. The only way that these little bombed out ruins matter is in terms of their defensibility. You only give up ground if it's indefensible and costing you unduly to hold it. The fact that Ukraine is maintaining a 10:1 kill ratio holding these places makes them definitionally worth holding. When Bakhmut went from a 10:1 to a 1:1 kill ratio was when the UAF should have retreated, but even that wasn't for nothing. The devastating losses wagner incurred resulted in the most internally destabilizing blow to the Russian government yet, and the dissolution of Russia's most effective military force.
the idea is that when you get cut off and surrounded you will either die or be captured
if you retreat you can man another defensive position until its in danger of being cut off
repeat until you run out of territory to fall back to or attacker will run out of meat to mince
defenders advantage is real
>due to fuel consumption
The Abrams was designed to move quickly between defensive positions, but because ww3 never happened it instead went on big offensives and in urban combat.
Turbine engines are efficient at higher speeds but when idling it's still running. That's it. Not a big deal.
https://twitter.com/Jeff21461/status/1754154290841575654 >This video was not shot in Ukraine. The tank seen is am M1A2 variant while Ukraine only received 31 M1A1SA from the US.
>Trump and his cronies blocking aid to Ukraine seems to have finally reached a breaking point for Ukraine
Reminder we are now THREE (3) days since the EU signed off on $54bn.
Ukrainians will butcher them and prob spring a surprise like F-16s, but they are suffering from a drop in ammo at the moment, thanks to the homosexual Biden and Europe missing production targets again, but probably they are saving up ammo too
>thanks to the homosexual Biden
you mean republicans
3 months ago
Anonymous
the Republicans are straight-up traitors, but Biden is a homosexual who should have the experience to tard-wrangle them a lot better than he has
3 months ago
Anonymous
Traitors to ~~*(who*~~ comrade?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T TRY TO PRESERVE PEACE ON THE CONTINENT WITH OUR STRONGEST ALLIES AND TRADING PARTNERS AGAINST OUR SECOND-BIGGEST GEOPOLITICAL RIVAL, THAT'S WHAT THE israeliteS WANT, NOOOOOOO!
3 months ago
Anonymous
To the very republican party of old. There was a time when Republicans went to war to free others from bondage, to liberate the western world, and to promote liberty, democracy, and western values. Now they simp for dictators, and promote a wanabe dictator.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You homosexuals spent the entirety of the 2000s calling bush a war criminal over anything happening in Iraq.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Republicans did? No. Quite the opposite. Or do you immediately think that criticism of the cult currently in vogue is somehow indicative of Democrat leanings? If so, you might be part of said cult.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Republicans did? No. Quite the opposite. Or do you immediately think that criticism of the cult currently in vogue is somehow indicative of Democrat leanings? If so, you might be part of said cult.
A for effort guys, but the low-effort shitflinging isn't working. The thread's about the Abrams, not whatever US political bullshit you're trying to stir up.
No, actually. Doctrinally, it's an insufficient force to attempt an attack at an entrenched opponent, and that is not even counting training differences and equipment quality, as well as the soundness of the concept. I predict TZD.
I was trying to be nice to them for once, just to spice things up before their inevitable defeat
3 months ago
Anonymous
There is no point in being nice to a vatBlack person, for they will not appreciate it and will, instead, take it for weakness. No mercy on vatBlack folk.
Kursk 2 with Abrams duking it out with T-series eastern front circa 2024 ohh man i dont want to see people die anymore but that would be a sight to behold.
Russian troops have advanced into the built-up area of Avdiyivka, and there are street battles in the city
This was announced on Facebook by the editor-in-chief of Censor.NET Yuriy Butusov.
According to him, Russian units were entrenched on one of the streets on the northern outskirts of Avdiyivka.
"If you measure in a straight line, the advanced units of the enemy are at a distance of about one and a half kilometers from the entrance to the city. Two weeks ago, the enemy managed to enter two streets on the southern outskirts of the city. The situation is critical," writes Butusov .
He also noted that the 110th mechanized brigade, as well as several attached units, are engaged in battles with the enemy, which is several times superior in strength and constantly deploys fresh reinforcements for its infantry.
" Avdiivka immediately needs fresh reserves and rotation of units of the heroic 110th brigade, which maintains control despite the absolute exhaustion from almost two years of continuous fighting in the city. Ammunition is also needed - supplies are also extremely small, the enemy has a great advantage in means of destruction," - it is said in the message.
Uhh, posting an advancement of 3 houses within a village at the frontline for the past 2 years is not the kind of post you thought you were making anon...
Russian troops have advanced into the built-up area of Avdiyivka, and there are street battles in the city
This was announced on Facebook by the editor-in-chief of Censor.NET Yuriy Butusov.
According to him, Russian units were entrenched on one of the streets on the northern outskirts of Avdiyivka.
"If you measure in a straight line, the advanced units of the enemy are at a distance of about one and a half kilometers from the entrance to the city. Two weeks ago, the enemy managed to enter two streets on the southern outskirts of the city. The situation is critical," writes Butusov .
He also noted that the 110th mechanized brigade, as well as several attached units, are engaged in battles with the enemy, which is several times superior in strength and constantly deploys fresh reinforcements for its infantry.
" Avdiivka immediately needs fresh reserves and rotation of units of the heroic 110th brigade, which maintains control despite the absolute exhaustion from almost two years of continuous fighting in the city. Ammunition is also needed - supplies are also extremely small, the enemy has a great advantage in means of destruction," - it is said in the message.
>Muh Abrams
Can somebody explain to me why USA instead of sending 50 Abrams doesnt send 1000 M60's?
They dont use them anymore, and they produced frickton of them, surely they should be enough for russian T55's right?
>Can somebody explain to me why USA instead of sending 50 Abrams doesnt send 1000 M60's?
they dont have 1000 M60s
they were all pulled from active duty and are now most likely just being used as donors for everyone they sold them to
it would literally be more effort to repair them up to M60A3 standard than it would be to upgrade existing M1A1s
Weird that Russia can still have stockpilles of tanks build in the '50 that are good for reactivation in few weeks or months at worst while USA scrapped all its tanks from the '70 just 10 years after the replacement/new gen was introduced
... The first M60s were activated in 1959, they were in service until 1997. It wasn't until 1992 that they were declared totally obsolete (which they are).
The idea that we would ever use 60 year old antiques was unthinkable. If Russia wasn't willing to pull garbage out of the scrap heap, they would actually be out of options.
NTA
Honestly it was a failure of policy, the idea was the US had enough for the US and wouldn't accept the casualties that would come from using M60s in a hot war.
They forgot that being able to supply other nations with your old shit grants major political points for minimal cost.
Not really, because it dies to everything on the battlefield, especially mines, and Ukraine's soldiers are its most valuable asset. They don't have thousands of tank crews anyway.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Not really, because it dies to everything on the battlefield
Just like unprotected infantry, most APCs and MRAPS etc
At least they could have reused hulls or something
their also stored far better, the land the US uses sees almost no rainfall, and is relatively the same humidity all year round, for decades at a time. Its perfect for storing mechanical gear for long periods. Meanwhile russia dumped thousands of tanks and vehicles in swamps.
>tanks build in the '50 that are good for reactivation
Because America actually considers things like survivability of crew being more efficient than simply letting them all die and replacing them with Asiatic immigrants, whereas ziggers are totally expendable because when they die it is good.
Unlike Russia, we don't keep massive stocks of obsolete hardware parked in the middle of nowhere. Those M60s were either sold off to people like Turkey or were turned into museum pieces years ago.
All the M60s that weren’t scrapped were sold.
M60s are out of date tech and the Abrams has been around long enough and has been produced enough that it would be easier and cheaper for Ukraine to receive them. Not to mention that more nations are adopting Abrams tanks, including Poland and Romania, so any repairs or upgrading can be done with ease rather than a half of dozen mechanics who never even heard of the M60!trying to Black person rigg it because nobody in Europe aside from Turkey operates the damn things. >but Ukraine has M60 AVBLs
And they’re not being used in a massive capacity nor are they meant to fight in combat.
Weird that Russia can still have stockpilles of tanks build in the '50 that are good for reactivation in few weeks or months at worst while USA scrapped all its tanks from the '70 just 10 years after the replacement/new gen was introduced
This applies to any other military worth its salt.
Why would the US stockpile tanks it doesn’t need and no longer has an industrial base or logistical system to back them up. Aside from long term storage in the desert and shipping spare parts to nations that actually field the damn things, the M60s is as good as a museum piece. The US already has thousands of abrams in service or in long term desert storage.
Russia’s military doctrine has been relying on soviet leftovers and seldom fly upgrading and advancing its military tech to compete with the world.
I don't see the Ukrainians or NATO invading their neighbors, destroying their cities, killing their people, raping their women and kidnapping their children. But I guess that does equate to peace in a Black person's mind. Black person.
The russians sold the equipment to basically everyone we've fought since the 2nd world war. Does that mean there just aren't any armies anymore outside of ours? Saddam had the best weapons you could buy with black gold, from the Soviets and even the West alike. Still got steamrolled.
NTA
Honestly it was a failure of policy, the idea was the US had enough for the US and wouldn't accept the casualties that would come from using M60s in a hot war.
They forgot that being able to supply other nations with your old shit grants major political points for minimal cost.
Well, we did sell a ton of M60s so the West-aligned countries DID get supplied. But in the Cold War you were pretty clearly 1st, 2nd, or 3rd world. And if you weren't with us, very little tanky for you.
To the very republican party of old. There was a time when Republicans went to war to free others from bondage, to liberate the western world, and to promote liberty, democracy, and western values. Now they simp for dictators, and promote a wanabe dictator.
>to liberate the western world
Anon in all fairness, that was Democrats in charge during WW2 AND WW1. Even if by modern standards they may be considered more conservative. Wilson in particular, what with the Birth of a Nation stuff.
They're still fielding plenty of T-72s. And they can probably sustain heavy artillery losses for 2-3 more years
T72s, sure. Most modernized T72s? Not really. Blocks mean everything, and most of the best stuff is dwindled down pretty hard. Hence we get T55s rolled out.
I'm not american. It's just sad to see people destroying the things that are theirs and believing that they have become richer for it. I don't expect someone like you to be able to understand that, though.
>destroying the things that are theirs >Destroying
The bases are still there anon. All they changed was the name. Wikipedia article is still going to say "Formerly known as Fort Slavenport, founded by and named for Major General Cornellius Cornwall Theodore Slavenport III (1798-1869) of the 8th Georgia Artillery Regiment to defend against the 3rd Sakachotwa raids of 1839, later used as a slave trade station with Tejas (now Mexico) and as a powder plant during the Civil War, where 800 black men would load barrels with refined black powder every day. Seen here is a picture of the whipping stand used on slaves who missed their quota" or whatever.
>Anon in all fairness, that was Democrats in charge during WW2 AND WW1. Even if by modern standards they may be considered more conservative. Wilson in particular, what with the Birth of a Nation stuff.
Ostensibly, yes, Democrats were in charge, however, how many dissenting Republicans did you see there? How many kept trying to sabotage the war effort because they believed the Krauts, Japs, or Wops were the better alternative for the world? That is not the world we live in today. The Republican party has lost its way, and the cancer that now exists within needs to be excised. They laughed at Bush and the so-called Bush Doctrine, but the fact is that it didn't go far enough. It is not only terrorists and non-state actors, but dictatorships, the source of their funding, and any entity that is not compatible with the modern western democracies that needs to be destroyed before they make a mess. Look what the liberals got us. We were sold the lie of economic interdependence in order to stave-off war. We were told that negotiation and diplomacy, economic pressure, and soft power would be the tools for the next century and that we could finally let go of the world, but as soon as this is tried, the animals try to re-assert themselves. This is unacceptable. America has a mission, and it is to free the world permanently. Just as other forces of the past did before us, when they freed enslaved peoples, undid the monarchic houses of Europe, and destroyed fascism and communism as political forces, so must we too continue this project and completely eliminate any force that can threaten democracy and western values. The world must be made safe for Democracy.
Apparently that factory that blew up in Moscow in the late autumn was a lancet factory.
I hope no one was hurt. For those not aware, the lancet factory was a bunch of enslaved Russian engineering students and african girls. Russians ran loverboy scams to entice african girls to come to Russia where they were then effectively enslaved.
>using sweatshop-tier workers to build somewhat complex systems.
What could go wrong?
Wrong facility. But if you want to hate Russians more read this. You will not find sweeter more wholesome women than Africans so this really disturbs me.
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/59075374/#59075970
3 months ago
Anonymous
>source: some dude on twitter
What moron believes this shit? This is spoon rape tier nonsense.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's probably fake, but I wouldn't put that kind of schemes past them, I've seen a Tanzanian news report about one of their nationals studying in Russia being forcefully enrolled in Wagner and dying in Bakhmut
3 months ago
Anonymous
>https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/59075374/#59075970
jesus christ
3 months ago
Anonymous
>flag is half soviet union half imperial russia
don't this clowns know that the former killed the latter?
3 months ago
Anonymous
What makes you think that matters? There's a reason a bunch of US bases were named after confederates. Good or bad, whatever they fought for, your history is your history and you do yourself no favours by forgetting that or worse, villifying it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Those bases all had their names changed recently.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah because the US is a dying culture.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Nooo, my hecking confederinos need bases too.
Get over it, trailer-dweller.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not american. It's just sad to see people destroying the things that are theirs and believing that they have become richer for it. I don't expect someone like you to be able to understand that, though.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I'm not american.
Then shut the frick up. We don't care.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah sure you don't care so much you cry about it on an Assyrian calligraphy forum. That's how much you don't care.
3 months ago
Anonymous
What?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>What makes you think that matters? There's a reason a bunch of US bases were named after confederates. Good or bad, whatever they fought for, your history is your history and you do yourself no favours by forgetting that or worse, villifying it.
The weird mixture of Tsarist and Soviet symbols in Russia looks like some of the stuff like the U.S. did in the 20th century with Civil War commemorations. But history is always selectively reinterpreted to fit the needs of the present. The base formerly known as Fort Hood was built during World War II when there were American generals had grandfathers who fought in Civil War, and there were people who still identified with the Confederacy, and that was to serve the needs of the time.
For similar reasons, the U.S. military has been reviving some "World War II" stuff like with the new Army dress uniforms that are a deliberate callback. Great national purpose and unity stuff. It's also true in our politics, both the left and right are looking back at periods in the 20th century to ground their politics whether it's the 1950s (not the Confederacy) for the right or FDR's New Deal coalition on the left, but they all kind of want the same thing.
I think it's true in Russia as well. The liberal people in Moscow who hate Putin are not that different from the people actually in charge of the Kremlin. If the goons running the Russian government were really Soviet then they wouldn't be waging some half-assed "SMO." It's really one clan against the other. The liberal clan is a bit more technocratic and has more Western MBAs under their belts, but the Soviet past is an embarrassment for all of them so they prefer to pretend to be some sort of royalty, and are drawn to making shitty copies of imported western culture. That's why the Russian propaganda looks a lot like Fox News and Dubya-era stuff. Funny Russian T.V. bit:
3 months ago
Anonymous
those bastards put that woman in the red dress to draw and glue your eyes to the fricking sznikers logo
3 months ago
Anonymous
>the Soviet past is an embarrassment for all of them
For the rest of eastern Europe sure, but for Russia the Soviet past is something to be proud of, especially for the military. You see its symbolism everywhere in the Russian military and their propaganda. The same is true for the Russian Empire. It's less about selective reinterpretation, and more an intentional awareness that all of Russian history is the inhertiance of the Russians of today, and that selectively dismissing parts of your history according to the prevailing ideology is what the "Degenerate West" does.
See picrel from last year, and this
3 months ago
Anonymous
Schizophrenia: the picture
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Civil war commemorations was more about getting over the past and emphasizing that the usa was one nation again.
The russians are stuck in a country that is on the brink of losing it's great power status or even no longer being a power. They reach back to both the soviet and the russian imperial era because that was when they where undisputed (super) powers.
They are both apolitical. The civil war commemoration ignored the political reasons for the war since the north and south shared more politically than they differ (on the global stage).
The russians worshiping past empires because they do not care why they used to be strong only that they where, cargo cult "if we do like when we where strong, we will be strong". They simply don't care about the conflicting politics of the empire and the ussr because they don't care about politics just putin stronk = putin good.
the commemoration was wholesome, family remembering a fight they had but how they got over it and are strong for it.
The russians are going to the graves of their two dead wife beater uncles that drunk themselves to death and remembering fondly how they'd be the shit out of their kids.
3 months ago
Anonymous
yeah and they entice israeli scientists from abroad with masturbation machines!
>lancet spam stopped
Two today, five yesterday, and January 24 has had an all time high of 141 a month. Sometimes I wonder if you live in an alternate reality.
Ukraine is throwing whatever is left of their best units into the Avdiivka meat grinder, this is a grave mistake and will permanently destroy their offensive capabilities
Okay but ziggers will be very disappointed if they ever destroy one and don't find a washing machine.
Or does the Turbine comes with a spin-drying function?
nice
now send more than just 50
I don’t think Abrams is a good fit. They need quantity more than quality, so hundreds and hundreds of Leo1’s, more leo2’s, more attack helicopters, and dozens of f16’s. And hundreds and hindreds of ifv that use 25mm, 30mm, and 40mm rounds that have atgm’s
Ie more bradleys.
tanks are completely useless in this war due to mines and drones
they need air superiority
Not completely useless as they provide fire support, so they are less useful than previous conflicts. IFV have more impact in assisting assaults.
>air superiority
Patriots and f16’s will slowly inch them closer to it.
>Not completely useless as they provide fire support
So they do what tanks have mostly done since WWII? Wow, what a difference.
Ukraine needs all it can get, Leo 1, Leo 2, but Abrams too.
Are you implying Abrams are a more qualitative tools than Leo2s, attack helicopters or F16s?
>Are you implying Abrams are a more qualitative tools than Leo2s
NTA but arguably yes, though not in any metric that matters in the field, IMO.
>attack helicopters
Arguably, as without long-range ATGMs attack helos are just flying MLRS platforms in this war, on both sides.
>or F16s
As they're currently (somehow) more vaporware than ol' Abrams has been, yes. At least until Ukraine has at least 12 of them in-country and ready to sortie.
In any event, the Ukrainians could still do with more Bradleys and artillery, first and foremost.
NTA
IMO lots of F-16s with HARMs pods, targeting pods and standoff weapons like JSOW and SDBs would make the biggest difference.
The only reason we are seeing trench warfare is because neither side controls the sky to cut supply to those trenches.
Abrams are top, but they need more quantity than anything. 500 Leo 1’s would have more impact than 100 more Abrams.
They have also needed attack helis for ages, and what they need is dozens of slavshit and phasesd out 80’s-90’s nato gear.
>b-but air defenses
They would not be flying over Russians, but sitting far back firing some rockets then slinking back.
dude, there are not that many Leopards in service. There are MORE M1s in US service and reserve than Leopards, where the frick did you get the idea it was the opposite?
There were 6565 Leopard 1’s made and the difference is that they are completely phased out and we can send all of the ones in storage. The only reason we haven’t sent more is Swiss interference but we are hoping for workarounds. So hundreds or maybe thousands can be sent which would have an impact. Leo 1’s are the right balance of disposable and survivable tech that has an edge over Russian hardware.
In contrast, the Abrams is still in use, still considered a top notch system, so the USA is going to be reluctant sending in large quantities. In the entire conflict I can only see USA sending 100 max.
dude you have no idea what you're talking about, just stop
After that over 2 years of war, USA has only sent 31 Abrams because it is seen as a prestige weapons system and USA does not want to risk it. I do not think they will send hundreds more and it will only be a trickle. In contrast, Ukraine could build up over 1,000 Leopard 1A5’s and T-72’s which would have more impact than a trickle of Abrams.
yeah dude that's why they sent 31, so they could... lose 31, which would have the same morale effect.
Frick off with this ziggeroid talking point.
Please tell me the timeframe for sending 1,000+ Abrams to Ukraine, Because it certainly isn’t happening. It took ages of pressure and wrangling to get even 31. Plus, they are kept in the back for support rather than leading armor pushes so they will likely not lose many.
USA does not want a steady stream of destroyed Abrams on tvs since that is embarrassing. When USA deploys them, they have air superiority and use combined arms so theh know they will lose few. Ukraine does not have that.
They need mass quantity as fast as possible which means:
>hundreds to thousands of phased out Russian and Euro tanks
>hundreds to thousands of modern and phased out IFV.
Ukraine is moving to having the CV90 and Lynx as their main ifv in the future, and the fuchs as their main apc. These will be 100x more useful than Abrams.
>Plus, they are kept in the back for support rather than leading armor pushes so they will likely not lose many.
not subtle enough dude, gonna have to try harder.
May we see any footage whatsoever of Abrams engaging in combat in Ukraine?
just stop. We know what line you gays have been pushing, we saw it months ago with the Challenger "they're being held at the rear so they don't get lost" no one employs tanks like this, shut the frick up dumbass.
Take your meds.
The AFU is still using its tanks and we have footage of them doing so. There's no footage of abrams being used on the front because it's not happening. It's that simple.
>Please tell me the timeframe for sending 1,000+ Abrams to Ukraine
I don't know. It's impossible to tell without actually having inside knowledge. What we do know is that they are allowed to borrow money and buy as many as they want, and at its peak, GD was producing 800/annum.
>Plus, they are kept in the back for support rather than leading armor pushes so they will likely not lose many.
Ukraine is not currently engaged in an offensive operation. So why would there be any armor pushes? Is it more likely that it's being kept as a QRF element to provide for elastic defense? Who knows, but you certainly don't, and your analysis comes from an alcohol-fueled, addled, rape trauma'd, vatBlack person mind.
>SA does not want a steady stream of destroyed Abrams on tvs since that is embarrassing
Saudis lost tons of Abrams. We just sold them more. It's equipment. We understand that some of it will be destroyed.
>When USA deploys them, they have air superiority and use combined arms so theh know they will lose few. Ukraine does not have that.
Wow, then maybe it would be smart not to make moronic pushes like the Russians just because you have a new tank. It's almost like they don't think the Abrams is an invincible wonderweapon.
>Ukraine is moving to having the CV90 and Lynx as their main ifv in the future, and the fuchs as their main apc. These will be 100x more useful than Abrams.
We like to take an "all of the above" approach. Abrams will be there if the supply depots can handle them, and so will other equipment.
What's embarassing is your total ignorance and how loudly and proudly you keep displaying it evne in the face of multiple people telling you that you're being an ignorant moron.
>seen as a prestige weapons system and USA does not want to risk it
We are not Russians. Equipment is made to be used. If it breaks, then it breaks and we make a better one. Those tanks are also no longer used by us, so newsflash: we did make a better one, and then another, and then another. We did this decades ago.
It's not because it's a prestige weapon, it's because we're legally barred from sending the ones we have in stock. In order to send abrams we have to cripple them by removing the armor from them. Since that would involve tearing the whole thing apart, we're only sending newly built abrams without the armor. It's unbelievably stupid, and we only did it to force the Germs to send leopards since they were being gays about not sending anything until the US did. We could have sent 1000 bradleys instead and made an actual palpable impact. Instead we decided to send a parade unit just big enough to DP russia's armata fleet.
> did. We could have sent 1000 bradleys instead and made an actual palpable impact.
Yes 100% those have kicked ass and taken names so hard. The LAV variants use 25mm rounds too and many are being phased out. Should we send them?
Ukraine’s strategy is to have high kill ratios against Russians and to protect highly trained crew.
>in storage
Dude, most Leo 1s have been either sold to thirdie countries or scrapped by this point. There ar eno thousnads to be sent anymore.
Meanwhile, the yanks have literally thousands of M1s sitting in the desert.
I'm not sure if Switzerland counts as third world.
They arent in NATO so they might as well be
>muh Switzerland
Switzerland never bought or operated Leopard 1s, moron. They went from their own Panzer 68 straight to the Leopard 2A4.
A Swiss government owned company, Ruag, bought old Leopards and they refused to sell them.
Oh noes, that's literally 96 instead of oyur "thousands", and most of 'em in junkyard state. You're being severely delusional.
We have thousands of Abrams, but we absolutely 100% do not export the special sauce DU armor packages (we don't even trust our fellow #ganglosphere buddy Australia with that shit) so they'd need full factory rebuilds before they could be sent to Ukraine. Like "stripped down to the bare metal, cut apart, new bones grafted in, and then sewn back together" levels of work.
Whereas something like the Leopard 1 or 2 could just be sold or donated or whatever.
The original M1s didn’t have any depleted uranium armor and there are plenty that have been sitting in the desert since the 1990s. They still would require extensive refurbishing and upgrades but at least you don’t have to strip them to the bare metal to remove DU.
>more attack helicopters
totally and completely deprecated by drones at this point
This. Send 200 more Abrams tanks and 500 more Bradleys. Divided into four batches so it doesn't crash Ukie logisics.
Abrams is a parts hog though, it needs a massive supply chain for support. More bradley IFVs is the way to go.
that's not possible because they are just too valuable
but they are also outdated and will go down to a drone like all other tanks
we haven't sent shit in almost a year now thanks to congress. Imagine if we had continued to send this shit they would probably have at least a few dozen more abrams and bradleys to augment what we already sent. also the lack of artillery shells they desperately need right now.
I read somewhere that Ukraine is only able to fire 2,000 rounds total per day along the entire front line while Russia is firing over 10,000 per day as their supplies are augmented with shipments from North Korea and Iran.
>also the lack of artillery shells they desperately need right now.
That, at least, is not congress's fault.
Or rather, it is their fault that NATO ammunition production is so low since they didn't do anything over the last few decades to correct that state of affairs, but it's not their fault that they haven't sent shells which don't exist.
they only people anywhere close to serious about this war are Ukrainians themselves, then maybe Russians
which sucks for Ukrogoys, since they got duped into a hopeless meatgrinder, as the putinbots were saying all along, US was never serious about Ukraine actually winning
Biden doesn't need congress to send this stuff.
Frick you. You shitty uppity little not-Russians will get what you get and you will be THANKFUL for it.
We all know how this goes. One dies, it gets spammed on /k/ for an entire month, then video after video of these things eviscerating Russians will continue to flow endlessly.
whats worse is that you know the first abrams kills will be a mine mobility kill.
probably
As soon as someone with a drone or radio sees one of them they will probably have a bunch of assets try to eliminate it. Russia is so thirsty for propaganda victories that a single disabled Abrams would probably be worth the lives of thousands of men and materiel.
>One gets scratched, it gets spammed on /k/ for an entire month
fixed that for you
I have been ready for that for over a year now, capped my own post back then saying they are not invincible and will be killed but killing a tank and spamming it for days doesn't win wars.
>/k/ for an entire month
More like a year. The Leopard pic from last summer still gets reposted every few days.
>daily Avdiivka russian losses
Goddamn UEF and their T1 spam
Cybran go home! Reeeee!
>none tossed are turret, or got charred from the inside out
WAR CRIMES!
One will be captured, displayed in red square, and a claim will be made that Russia will reverse the latest American military technology (from 1975)
>Putin: take this to the lab, I want to be producing their sights in 3 months
>engineer: yes sir
3 months later
>Putin: where are the new sights for our tanks
>engineer: we literally can't produce them without a decade of investment in optics and electronics
technically, they would be M1A1s rebuilt to M1A2 standard, so there would be a few 90s tech in there
>western military tech from the 1990s
So, incomprehensible 7-dimentional space wizardry to the pidoruskies
So advanced it will be indistinguishable from magic.
At least there's a decent chance the crew will survive to be interviewed, explain what happened, and lessons can be learned about how to better use those vehicles.
Nah, they didn't even need to scratch that merkava, the only good thing about this spam is to remind us anti-westerners should be rolled over by a tank.
I heard that Avdiivka is falling.
What’s the estimated time frame for it falling? Surely it’s not within two weeks…
14 days
It has been confirmed from all parties that such factual relevant to the case of hostile action within the Avadikkvka situation, that knowledge will be foreth coming at the (from this point) tenday and under half.
336 hours
only 20160 more minutes
One fortnight.
Half a month, tops.
14 nights
It's about half a moon.
approximately 1209600 seconds
Well you see, the cunning rooskies have named have named a domino "Avdiivka" and once they can stay sober enough to lay three of them in a row, Avidiivka will fall. Presumably within the next fortnight.
383.31 microcenturies.
"summer 2024"
They said it would fall 28 days later.
Avdiivka has fallen
May we see it?
They didn't repaint it?
Relax. It's David Axe.
>David Axe.
What's this?
so what? I'm clueless
He has a reputation spanning the better part of two decades as a hack clickbait "reporter" on military affairs. Heck, he's the guy who put the fake-news "F-35 lost to F-16" meme into the mainstream. He's not a POGO member, as far as I can tell; he just likes to write sensationalistic stories for money.
pic related
God he is suuuuuuuch a homosexual. I will never forgive him for repeating f-35 doomsaying.
If true vatniks will likely take some ground, is there anything of strategic importance there?
Kupyansk itself and the Oskol river, yeah.
Wait, that's the part of the Kupiansk sector they're meming about?
I'm sure Russia would try and drive an entire years worth of tanks into a swamp, too drive across a swollen river, into another swamp that is within range and sight of enemy artillery on the basis it would be a sneak attack because it's the most moronic thing they could possibly do because they are that fricking stupid; but until they actually do it, it's probably their attempts at diverting ukies elsewhere again.
I dunno about crossing the Oskol, but the AFU is taking the threat to Kupyansk seriously, I've read reports of them establishing firing positions on the west bank in the city itself.
Stop fricking posting forbes articles you fricking rat, buy an ad.
no source
Forbes is a source + russian started to screech about new massive assault.
>Forbes is a source
that is not a source you moron
Don't bother arguing with him. The Forbes poster is a ban dodging rat.
if the article doesn't suck ukie wiener all the trannies in here screech
they get paid to screech online
let that sink in
stop screeching moronic shitskin troony
>they get paid to screech online
Which side are you talking about again?
>let that sink in
But this is the sort of poster that'll screech about reddit lmao
>let that sink in
Im not letting that porcelain Black person in
120 000-strong Kupyansk offensive 2: Electric Boogaloo
video
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1754152023870611627
>https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1754152023870611627
The fricking Abrams got shifted to the 47th?
Dude that's fricked. That's the third tank type they've had.
Come Home, Black Horse.
M55 is so cute. Have any been lost yet?
Why does it say Bradley?
shit still in desert tan, holhols are getting desperate and are rushing these out before they can even paint them proper. combined with all the dramas in their command chain. it's over.
An Abrams in tan camo is 10x better than anything Russia can field
It will surely stick out in such a lush, verdant green landscape as the Donbas in February.
>still desert tan
I am vomit
Maybe they're sending them to go and fight in Ukraine's desert?
The Abrams is never leaving the sandbox 🙁
In a few days...
>Plink
>PHEWSSSS
>Ssssssssssssssssssssss
>BOOM!!!!
>M1 gets destroyed/disabled with a 30yo Russian atgm
And the last wunderwaffe is lost.
What is left? F-16?
>wunderwaffe
t.
Abrams "wunderwaffe" is as old as 30 year ATGM *~~))
> And the last wunderwaffe is lost.
Mate they send more than one, it’s not an amata
>wunderwaffe
why do vatniks project so hard
the only wunderwaffle tank around is the T-14, everyone knows that Abrams is immortal, just better than anything the ruskies actually field
>tank designed in the fricking 70s is "wunderwaffe" to vatniks
Bleak
>30yo ATGM kills 30yo tank
Yeah this is going to happen and you are going to claim it's a great victory while ignoring 61 dead T-90Ms.
>wunderwaffe
I honestly wish there were any real Nazis in Ukraine, just so they could live rent-free in your heads for another century after they win
>I honestly wish there were any real Nazis in Ukraine
they really like to put nazi shit on german tanks
They love trolling
I would, too. It really seems to piss off the Russians.
Its just bantz m8
Just like russians using soviet symbols, if you have a war, might as well LARP it like its WW2
>muh NAHZEEEEES!
I actually wish the would do some Dirleganger shit and throw all of you ziggers into a burning building.
But there are anon and im rooting for them. Where have you been the last two years?
>homosexual penning Abrams frontally
If you posted a kornet I might have given you some slack
>homosexual penning Abrams frontally
don't those tend to penetrate the rear?
Konkurs maybe, gayot would probably be defeated by even side protection.
>1970s era ATGM
the M1 IP was already frontally protected against the the gayot and konkurs missile
M1A2, which the ukranian M1A1s were upgraded to roughly the same standard, is protected from ATGMs within a 50-degree frontal arc
>the M1 IP was already frontally protected against the the gayot
No need to be so rude
this
/k/ never learns. The reality is that tanks are obsolete
>this
It was insufficient against even first gen M1s, requiring a flanking shot to penetrate the lower Hull and a perfect perpendicular angle to defeat the side turret
And what replacement can fulfill its role?
Mass infantry assaults covered by creeping barrage from heavy artillery
mechas
Do you really have to ask?
>D
>R
>O
>N
>E
>S
It's the moron's answer to everything.
Drones can provide massed high velocity point fires, anti-armor capabilities, high mobility, and create breakthroughs IOT move infantry and other assets? Fricking news to me.
Wunderwaffe? It's a tank. Quite old tank.
In fact, i'd assume USA would be happy to see them destroyed, to have a contemporary capability assessment.
what the frick is this post, is this a false flag? or a pitiful attempt at one?
He's not wrong, there will be claps in the depo's ready to see any interesting damage to Abrams.
Sure we have seen plenty of RPG-7 hits and studied them but has one ever been hit by a 9M120 Ataka? Of course they are going to what to check it out.
Saudis lost several Abrams to Iranian ATGMs and Iraqi Army lost one to a Chinese ATGM.
What do you mean, Abrams is an old shit, upgraded and capable, but old design wise. MIC wants to make a replacement.
No one will shed a tear for THE TANK if it gets destroyed. You think it'd be a morale hit? Maybe a propaganda fodder? Nobody cares. It's a tank. If the crew survived, job done.
Now let's learn some lessons to apply to M1A3.
Given the Abrams is the only tank in the world wherein the ammo is properly segregated from the crew compartments I'd rather be in an M1Anothing shitbox than even a Leo2 if I know I'm going to get penned.
Well that just makes you a moron who doesn't know about the protection of the Leo 2s hull rack. Or the capability to, you know, just not use said hull rack unless you think you'll have to 1v1 an entire russkie battallion before your next resupply.
>but old design wise
Pretty much the only thing old about the M1A2 is the suspension
Everything else has been upgraded
he has a point
>M1A1
homie that hull is older than you are.
>muh wunderwaffe is lsot
Menawhile, that one (1) lost wunderwaffe butchzered several hundred ziggers up to that point and there's another 50 backing it up now with the capabilityy to deliver thousands more. Also, the one (1) you managed to hit subsequently got damaged, recovered, repaired and put back into service.
You really didn't think this through, subhuman.
true, all that ATGM would do is prevent the weapon that caused Russia to collapse from taking part on the peremoga parade, sister
The abrams we've sent don't even have the DU armor. There's no real reason to think they'll perform any differently than the leo2's
So they'll be performing very well?
>in before the same pictures from more than half a year ago
Well if by very well you mean not exploding like firecrackers any time someone looks at them funny, then sure. The adage that a tank is a tank is extremely reductive, but in the big picture it's mostly correct. T-72's may be qualitatively garbage in comparison, but that doesn't equate to additional capability. Ukraine just has a couple tanks that won't shit themselves to death at the drop of a hat.
I bet they're using it as bait. putin probably has a massive bounty on getting kill footage they can use as propaganda.
They are keeping them back for fire support.
Avdiivka? wew, thats one of the few places where ukrainians could be hit from multiple sides... I dont like this. Pics from 70 different angles of the same Abrams disabled spammed on /k/ until summer soon.
This would be the 3rd major Kupiansk offensive since they got raped in the north. During the last one, they actually lost ground overall...
>pic of ukrainian abrams
neat
>abrams have been held in reserve far from the front lines to defend rear areas
uh oh
>keeping the best optics in the rear where they offer no advanatge
Abrams should be at the front, not attacking but sitting anywhere they can see 3km+.
and then shot by artillery and drones great plan you should apply for the russian army
"drones" should be wordfiltered.
honestly everyone who has takes this bad should receive a /24, minimum.
Ukrainian telegram today has been reporting of a critical situation developing since russian infantry reached the northeastern most buildings. You have to be decisive with Abrams due to their rate of fuel consumption, so I assume now is the time to deploy them for the counter-attack. Either way, it appears that Ukraine is planning to make Avdiivka a massive slugfest to cause maximum damage for as long as possible.
>due to the rate of fuel consumption
my god you people pick up shit from wikipedia, twitter and random youtube videos then make these grand claims and it's like slitting wrists reading it
abrams consumes 2x more fuel than leopard 2
you refuel/resupply them at the rear just like any other tank and, get this, turn them off when you're not moving them for long periods.
seriously you people are fricking moronic. god i actually hate you.
>and, get this, turn them off when you're not moving them for long periods.
Not him, but I rly doubt you turn off the engine on anything when it's -10C outside. Novehicles won't get it.
>novehicles
>"muh dont turn off the engine"
my god stop fricking posting
He's talking about keeping the heater running when it's fricking cold because crews will do that.
I don't know if the old ones the Ukies got have the APU which runs climate control and optics for way less fuel than the turbine.
>i-it's cold
YOU STUPID FRICK IT IS FEBRUARY.
>-10C
homosexual, it has to get to minus 30 in Freedoms before it becomes impossible to start up diesels with any rapidity.
>You have to be decisive with Abrams due to their rate of fuel consumption
Lol, turbines suck at lower power but not enough that "we can't move them until we are sure", it's more like "for this 500km advance we need twice as many fuel trucks".
It can be an issue for a country without US logi covering a lot of contested ground but if you can't move them in the rear due to fuel concerns you are basically 1944 Germany levels of fricked.
>it appears that Ukraine is planning to make Avdiivka a massive slugfes
They really need to cut off Zelensky from any military decisions at this point. His obsession with holding onto irrelevant settlements in the Donbass at the cost of Ukraine's mobile reserves already cost the the summer offensive last year. I really hope they won't waste too many forces holding Avdiivka just for the sake of PR victories and the belief they can bleed Russia dry like with Bakhmut last year. The trick might've worked in Severodonezk but Russia wasn't mobilized back then.
Projection: the post
>already cost the the summer offensive last year.
there was nothing that could be done you moron
Starting two months earlier at the height of Russia's shell famine instead of sending more forces into Bakhmut is something they could've done.
it would change nothing
>he thinks it's trolling
Don't get me wrong, there are nazis in Ukraine the same as there are nazis in Russia
>attacking your enemy when he has an ammo shortage and is on the brink of exhaustion from a protracted battle is the same as attacking him when he had an extra two month to restock his ammo and relocate forces
Okay Napoelon. Whatever you say. I bet you also think diverting forces during the summer offensive to attack Bakhmut was also some giga smart move.
Wrong. Murrican military analysts advised Ukrainians attack with all their Western gear and all new brigades towards Melitopol early spring. 100k men with a few hundred vehicles, estimated 20% losses in men Burgers thought Ukrainians had everything necessary. Instead, Ukrainians did what they did. Strategic error.
Why? Ukies literally in the best position possible, thou they could've had Bakhmut back.
>Murrican military analysts
Do you trust them?
>Murrican military analysts
>Burgers thought Ukrainians had everything necessary
so morons told them to do something moronic
>masters of modern armored warfare and the only ones to have done it in living memory
>using their gear, that they know the capabilities of
>they tell Zelensky to be decisive and drive on a single axis
>liberating Melitpol would cut off the western end of the land bridge and allow the nuke plant to come under control
>Zelensky sends units out piecemeal and they are attrited in detail
I mean, what-if-ing it is pretty moot, and who knows if anything different would been achieved if they went with the single axis TEMPOTEMPO rush. However, if they were just going to fight a static defense, then they didn't need a bunch of maneuver assets. That was supposed to be their Valley Forge winter, but the failure to achieve literally anything strategic means that the Western European and American funders have likely written off a Ukrainian victory and are expecting a negotiated peace.
Yes, a combined arms breach is difficult, hazardous, and vulnerable. What Ukraine did, with sending a piecemeal attack into that same defense was even less sensible. They got tangled in the middle of Russian defenses and didn't have other units to advance through them and carry on the attack.
>also if you lose any of them we won't replace them
This is a blatant lie. Just the last few weeks, the Biden admin did an end run around GOP congress blocking aid by "gifting" 60 bradleys to Greece while saying if they pass them along to Ukraine, we'll give you a $200 million sweetheart loan.
We're not likely to see another build up of western equipped brigades. They West will keep supplying ammunition and funding to bleed the Russians, but with zero progress over the last year, Everyone is probably just waiting for Ukraine to tire out.
>muh piecemeal
moron. The ukrainian offensive was heavily concetrated on the Robotyne axis, with supplementary operations being almsot token in terms of actual effort.
You have literally less than no idea of what happened there. So stop embarassing yourself by trying to keep talking about it.
>We're not likely to see another build up of western equipped brigades.
LMAO, pure vatBlack person delusion. And it really shows how weak you actually are, Vanya, when "the West is totally going to get tired, ignore the new aid packages that prove otherwise" is the only cope you have left.
>The ukrainian offensive was heavily concetrated on the Robotyne axis, with supplementary operations being almsot token in terms of actual effort.
The fighting was heavier in the Bakhmut area, numbnuts
By late summer when the Ukrainians started? No. Also, stop samegayging, ziggie. Nobody is falling for it.
>but with zero progress over the last year
The lopsided destruction of hundreds of thousands of russian troops and effective annihilation of the Black Sea Fleet as a functioning fighting force constitute majuor and singificant progress outside of your delusional homosexualry, vatBlack person.
>vatBlack person
I have no idea where that is coming from. I'm an American and I support giving Ukraine more weapons to continue the war. I don't know why you're so reflexively hostile. Not everyone who has doubts about Ukraine's ability to win is a Russophile with a Z tattoo on their forehead.
I did fail to say that I meant "strategic progress," so I apologize for that omission. While the Russians have suffered large losses on land and the Black Sea Fleet (which was always strategically kind of pointless), the front lines haven't really moved since February of last year and the Russians haven't really shown signs that the losses are hurting their war effort no that their on a mostly defensive posture of keeping what they have.
>aid packages
Yes, I point out pretty explicitly that the US is continuing to supply vehicles by pointing to the Greece example. There very much isn't any sign of the Western countries equipping and training another bunch of Ukrainian brigades though.
>was heavily concentrated on the Robotyne axis
Yes, they sent units there to push, but they dispatched other brigades to other sections of the front. That lead to the Robotnye offensive bogging down and having no mobile reserves/relief, like I said.
>almost token
No, they had entire brigades in Donbas.
You're posting classic false-flag/concern-trolling vatBlack person shit.
>I did fail to say that I meant "strategic progress"
Massively lopsided attrition of russian combat capabilities IS STRATEGIC PROGRESS!
>the Russians haven't really shown signs that the losses are hurting their war effort
This is yet again pure, utter vatBlack person propaganda slop you're posting, Mr-Totally-An-American.
>There very much isn't any sign of the Western countries equipping and training another bunch of Ukrainian brigades though.
Except there is, given continual aid packages and the fact that training operations by the west HAVE NEVER STOPPED. Why do you keep lying like this? Isn't it frickign humiliating to know that you're lying and to know that your lies are so transparently bullshit that you WILL be either ignored as a vatBlack person stooge or called out on them every single time?
>Yes, they sent units there to push, but they dispatched other brigades to other sections of the front.
The Robotyne axis was the clear schwerpunkt of the ukrainian offensive. And no shit did they not send literally everything there. That's NOT how it works, you utter moron. FFS, they already ran into problems of having OVERCOMMITTED on too narrow a front there as it is, which is exactly why it bogged down.
>entire brigades
In other words, token commitments barely able to man the frontline and throw some distractionary pushes.
You're severely delusional and clueless about modern war, ziggie. Again, do yourself a favour and stop talking about things you obviously and evidently know and understant literally less than nothing about.
>Massively lopsided attrition of russian combat capabilities IS STRATEGIC PROGRESS!
Russia now has vast amounts of hardened combat troops with exp. in near peer combat, where you can't just call in air support. USA has none and its only getting worse.
Ukraine was creating lots, but then letting them all get killed.
China has none, but they are friends with Russian who can train them.
Exp. Ukrainian troops will not be training NATO because they are all dead.
Has Russia troops face full weight of NATO airpower and is that important? Sure, but NATO airpower has never been pushed over enemy territory against even 2nd tier air defense, and Ukraine War would indicate that today any airpower pushed against moderately well defended targets will be taking a beating.
That's not a problem for the US, since it only takes minimal competence to reduce over extension before you get pulled into a catastrophic or even an embarrassing conflict
Reduce defense guarantees, grow faster than all others, embrace all that AI enables while stoking fires elsewhere - what do you really lose this way? Perhaps the position dollar has, and not even that is certain
Of course this sucks for others - it did not quite sink in fully yet, but the public in Poland is waking up to the reality that US is not even attempting to (re)build an army that could credibly fight on our soil. We'd get the Ukraine treatment, so if war, we're screwed, and if peace, Europe is in for a decade of abysmal growth
>reduce defense guarantees
LMAO, you wish, vatBlack person. Also, stop talking to yourself, it's fooling nobody.
>but the public in Poland is waking up to the reality that US is not even attempting to (re)build an army that could credibly fight on our soil
Literally delusional vatBlack person propaganda. PS. Poland is not "your" soil, Vanya, and never will be outside of your zigger delusions. The EU alone would curbstomp your shit-tier army and probably nuke Moscow into cinders if you even just tried for Suwalki.
you feign concern for my country as an excuse to jerk off about how powerful the country you were born in is
it would be insulting if I were to forget you're ultimately just an irrelevant pleb
reality is, at the current trajectory, Rus will test the guarantees to call be bluff, in Estonia or whatever, and the US will have the locals to fight to the last *insert nationality*, make noises that they are totally not folding, and focus on the important theaters instead of the untenable periphery
and that's a bad thing, since I want (You), muttoid, here in a trench, against the Russians
Holy ESL
>muh ESL
quintessential /k/ope
No one can understand what you are trying to say you moron.
you did understand, and can't credibly challenge it, so you distract
No what you wrote is a jumbled up mess of incoherent thoughts
>ukraine
>in anyway comparable to an actual NATO member state
Maybe the brits and germans on PrepHole were right about Poles....
come back when US has an actual army in Europe, stationed on the border in my country, ready to begin dying from day 1, and in sufficient numbers
"I can't follow" is not an argument
Buddy no one can understand your ESL slop
V Corps is based in Poland and has forward deployed two armored brigades, and aviation brigade, an infantry brigade, as well as the stryker brigade in Germany. It also has all the assets and support equipment to put multiple divisions into combat once they arrive from the US. They're whole purpose is to hold the line for the week it will take to get the US based divisions deployed. Keeping the entire army in Poland all the time is nonsensical.
the IBCT is in Romania, homie. Otherwise totally correct.
>there's like 50 guys 100km+ west of Wisła, but more would arrive move to fight, ETA 2 weeks
bare minimum to act like Ukraine treatment is not the default for us is multiple divisions, stationed on the border, where Russians could not help but start killing them
but that is not going to happen, since then US is actually committed to fight instead of promising air superiority and kvetching that it's normal to geofence "our" F35s or whatever
China is far too much of a power for US to credibly commit here, though they will pretend otherwise, since then the locals start thinking they need nukes yesterday, and things slip out of US control
>there's like 50 guys
>three brigades
Why are you so fricking stupid? The US literally has almost an entire division in Poland and you're complaining that they aren't at combat ready, standing watch on the border.
Why isn't the Polish Army all lined up on the border? The answer to that is because it would be fricking stupid. There isn't an active war on and there are zero signs of Russia launching an imminent invasion of Poland. That's why the military (Polish and American) is in garrison and not sitting in the field.
People aren't going to sit on their hands and wait for Russians to cross the border. When/if the situation escalates, more troops will be mobilized and they'll move to a higher alert. This is basic, baby level strategy, you moronic, polak noguns.
Fricking war tourists, man...
>let me twist a demand for credible commitment into one of troops lined up in full gear on the border 24/7/365, and claim a win, muh gunz
increase the alert level, and it will only be us lined up on the border, US troops safe in Germany, and the 'almost division' almost committed to defend Poznań to the last man, muttoid
and for the far more likely spot for an incident, in Estonia, nobody but Estonians
and then, the Ukraine treatment
>ponzan
Jesus you are stupid. I'm going to drive in to Chicago today and show other Poles your posts, so that they can feel better about leaving morons like you behind.
When it looks like there will be more of a fight, they'll be put into the field along with other forces that were deployed in the preceding weeks. An entire corps command is there because that's the level of combat power they expect to surge. 3-4 divisions within 2-3 weeks and follow on forces to be organized under a separate organization. The entire Polish Army is only 4 divisions. The US is literally expecting to double your combat power. Half the Polish Army is garrisoned in western Poland as well, are you going to go b***h at them for abandoning Gdansk? It's peacetime you dense moron.
>Estonia
There's a whole NATO battalion in Estonia. Before you babble on about there not being 10 fricking field armies or something stupid, it's because there isn't the infrastructure to support a whole frick load of troops in Estonia. IF AND WHEN there is an immediate need for more, they will be moved as appropriate.
My friend Jan is from somewhere south of Kaliningrad. He once told me that smart people leave Poland and get good jobs out of the country and hard working people also leave Poland to get good jobs out of the country. He told me the only People left in Poland are the lazy and the stupid. This conversation has inclined me to believe him.
>I'll tell on you to my Polish acquaintances
You won't, and spare me these verbose efforts at roundabout insults, mutt
>Polish Army is stationed in more than one place
Polish army is committed to fight for my country, US is not, that's why where and who is stationed where is a signal, and why I think the 3-4 divisions with remain 2 weeks away in perpetuity
>but they have to, NATO is at stake!
they don't, Estonia or even Poland are peripheral countries not worth having a serious war over unless it would be fought by the US, and the US has no army that can do that while maintaining credibility in more important places
>no infrastructure
bullshit
>they don't have to
You think we're spending all this fricking money on a performative exercise? If that was the goal, V Corps would be in Brussels and we wouldn't have three fricking brigades on rotation. Same thing with the infantry brigade in Romania. If we just wanted to posture, we have plenty of bases in Germany we could have used.
>bullshit
Yes, moron. There isn't a fricking military base in Estonia that can handle an extra 4,000 troops that a brigade would bring. The US has spent a frick load of money on new facilities to support and house the brigades in Poland.
You are unfathomably stupid and you have the critical thinking skills of pond scum. All the evidence points to the Americans being willing to fight in Poland for Poland, but all you're able to do is whine about how they aren't doing stupid shit like keeping an entire field army on the border.
>stationed on the border
there was a stir recently in Poland that regular army wont be stationed at the border - they will be deployed to areas 50-60 km from the border waiting for opportunity for counterattack while specials and national guard will harass invading force and its logistics
- Special operation and its alleged massacres were a trigger to make a firmer stance as original battle plan included falling back hundreds of km before counterattacking from Vistula river after allied forces arrive
exact distances are unimportant, US troops will not fight until Germany is the frontline, and it will not, since Ukraine treatment means a hopeless static meatgrinder with US firmly in control of escalation
60853818
I'm tired of (You), I'll copy my other comment just so it is not distracted from by that wall of cope
you feign concern for my country as an excuse to jerk off about how powerful the country you were born in is
it would be insulting if I were to forget you're ultimately just an irrelevant pleb
reality is, at the current trajectory, Rus will test the guarantees to call be bluff, in Estonia or whatever, and the US will have the locals to fight to the last *insert nationality*, make noises that they are totally not folding, and focus on the important theaters instead of the untenable periphery
and that's a bad thing, since I want (You), muttoid, here in a trench, against the Russians
>Russia now has vast amounts of hardened combat troops with exp.
Except not, because the life expectancy of ziggers on the frontline is too short for them to gather that experience, and the Russian Army is BY DESIGN incapable of learning from experience.
>USA has none and its only getting worse.
USA also has no peers or near peers and as such will always be able to call in that air support.
>Ukraine was creating lots, but then letting them all get killed.
Except not, as Ukraine has been taking much lighter losses than Russia andh as been effectively rotating their units to preserve and build experience, rather than use the russian approach of letting them sit in place until eradicated.
>China has none, but they are friends with Russian who can train them.
The Russians can't even adequately train their own, having thrown their trainer cadre into the frontline and gotten them wiped out back in late 2022.
>Exp. Ukrainian troops will not be training NATO because they are all dead.
Repeating your idiotic vatBlack person projection agian does not change that you're trying to project the stat eof the Russian Army upon the Ukrainian one, subhuman.
>Has Russia troops face full weight of NATO airpower and is that important?
What are you even trying to say here, ESL moron?
>Sure, but NATO airpower has never been pushed over enemy territory against even 2nd tier air defense
All non-western air defense is effectively 3rd "tier" or worse in the face of NATO airpower. When faced with a fourth-rate garbage "army " such as the Russian one, NATO airpower would hold utterly uncontested air dominance and bomb at will within a week.
>IS STRATEGIC PROGRESS
Attrition that fails to achieve battlefield results is not progress. Lee getting slapped back after Antietam and again after Gettysburg didn't matter until Grant's Overland Campaign actually prevented Lee from being able to rebuild his broken forces. The Ukrainians are also atritted and don't have a capability to meaningfully make use of the Russian losses.
>HAVE NEVER STOPPED
Yes they have. They have not in fact tried to train and equip more armored maneuver brigades. The infantry units they're training now are not going to make the backbone of another offensive maneuver force.
>The Robotyne axis was the clear schwerpunkt
>And no shit did they not send literally everything there
That they failed to equip with adequate reserves to relieve attributed units and continue forward progress. Sending the maneuver brigades to go assist static defenses was not a good call.
OVERCOMMITTED on too narrow a front
They failed to breach the successive minefields and Russian forces were able to move reinforcements into their way. This happened bot because the front was narrow, but because the attacking brigades didn't have reserve formations to relieve them.
>In other words, token commitments
They did not have many maneuver brigades. Taking a significant portion of your offensive power and spending it in defensive actions up and down the Donbas was not a good use of them. The discord leaks showed that the Ukrainians had only three brigades on the Zaporozhye Axis in March 2023. Failure to concentrate force was a major part of why the 2023 offensives bogged down.
>vatBlack person
Disagreeing with the idea of Ukraine somehow pulling a decisive win out of this doesn't make me Russian, or even someone who thinks nicely of Russia. It's the same way that saying "Hamas isn't going to be able to push the Israelis out of Gaza" doesn't make me a zionist. You're engaging with me emotionally at this point (all the caps lock), and that isn't healthy.
So you're now reduced to brazenly repeating your moronic vatBlack person propaganda slop like a broken record, while throwing in a couple fallacies to try and cover up the stink of your bullshit.
- Massive, one-sided attrition is in fact strategic progress.
- The Ukrainians are, in fact, not nearly as attrited as the Russians and are continously making use of the Russian losses.
- NATO in fact continues to train maneuver units for the Ukrainians.
- You, in fact, continue to know and understand less than nothing about modern war.
- The Ukrainians did, in fact, have plentiful reserves during their offensive. Yet no opportunity to actually use them effectively presented itself, and so they were not committed.
- You are, in fact, behaving EXACTLY like a flase-flagging vatBlack person. Wether this is out of malice or sheer incompetence and ignorance is insubstantial.
You are not and neve rahv eengaged with anyone here in anything resembling good faith, so kindly shove your whining about being called out right back up your ass, subhuman. YOur existence isn't healthy, so kindly do mankind a favour and kys. Or keep embarasisng yourself with this moronic broken record routine you're now engaging in. I guess it's the sole cope you vermin have keft.
>The Ukrainians are, in fact, not nearly as attrited as the Russians and are continously making use of the Russian losses.
May I see the use they made?
>NATO continues to train maneuver units
With what vehicles?
>they had plently of reserves they just didn't use them because front line units being attrited in a CAB isn't reason to use them. Most of the reserves for the Zaporozhye offensive were territorial units composed mostly of light infantry.
>You are not and neve rahv eengaged with anyone here in anything resembling good faith
That is all I have done. You're literally raving at the end of your posts now. What do you think that accomplishes?
I support giving Ukraine weapons to continually bleed the Russians, but It's been over a year since either side gained an appreciable amount of territory. I' inclined to believe that Ukraine doesn't have the offensive power to push the Russians back more than I am that they just aren't because of unspecified reasons. You haven't actually refuted what I've said other than shouting "Nuh uh!"
That doesn't make me a vatnik. You're seeing conspiracies in everything, you need to take a break and realize that not everyone who doesn't go all in on whatever it is you're on is a Russian.
of modern armored warfare
Ukraine does not have the air superiority to be pulling a western-style armored assault. If the US mil wanted them to push Melitopol then they should have given them F-16s in early 2023. Now it's fricking 2024 and the only countries giving Ukraine F-16s are tiny irrelevant Euros? An embarrassment for us.
>taking back land
>killing as many ziggers as possible
Tough choice.
Taking back their land would win the war. Killing ziggers just means more ziggers show up.
The "military analysts" that told Ukraine that they should assault through mile deep minefields, without air superiority, fire superiority, or even numerical superiority, should unironically kill themselves. Yeah, 50 old leopards and 100 bradleys should do it, just drive them at the enemy and watch them crumble. Oh also if you lose any of them we won't replace them. Also your success will determine whether or not you receive any additional support. We unironically need to dispose of these morons because they clearly demonstrated they're at the same level of intelligence as Russian commanders.
It's the classic problem of people making high level military decisions being politicians who's knowledge is limited to which arms manufacturer gave them the biggest donation.
Then you have generals under them that became generals by kissing the right asses and they aren't about to tell politicians they are fricking moronic.
Ukraine still needs a lot of aid and current politicians seem to think this is some side show instead of a major threat to global security. For some reason they don't seem to understand that if Russia's land grab is successful there are plenty of other nations that might try and land grab of their own.
If anything, Avdiivka has been even more of a success in bleeding the zigger offensive than Bakhmut, and also has more strategic significance if it were to actually fall
>of a success in bleeding the zigger offensive
Bleeding the enemy dry is a moronic cope made up by Falkenhayn when he couldn't take Verdun by storm. It has never worked and people should finally stop pretending it's a valid strategy.
It's not a cope when it's your only option. If the enemy loses tons of men and equipment trying to bash their head against your defensive line, that's tons of men and equipment they can't conserve for a larger and more dangerous push later.
Puccia is already down to ancient T-55s and T-62s and whatever small amounts of new tech they can build by anniversary 2 of monke's special needs operation. There's plenty of time between now and the cap of year 3 for things to get even worse for ziggers.
They're still fielding plenty of T-72s. And they can probably sustain heavy artillery losses for 2-3 more years
Are you trying to claim attritional warfare doesn't exist?
The idea that Ukraine should just give up these settlements to "avoid bloodshed" is moronic. It assumes that if given these strategically insignificant little towns, Russia will simply call it quits and go home. No. That's not how war works. If Russia takes a town without a fight, they send their army to the next town over and that town gets destroyed instead. The only way that these little bombed out ruins matter is in terms of their defensibility. You only give up ground if it's indefensible and costing you unduly to hold it. The fact that Ukraine is maintaining a 10:1 kill ratio holding these places makes them definitionally worth holding. When Bakhmut went from a 10:1 to a 1:1 kill ratio was when the UAF should have retreated, but even that wasn't for nothing. The devastating losses wagner incurred resulted in the most internally destabilizing blow to the Russian government yet, and the dissolution of Russia's most effective military force.
the idea is that when you get cut off and surrounded you will either die or be captured
if you retreat you can man another defensive position until its in danger of being cut off
repeat until you run out of territory to fall back to or attacker will run out of meat to mince
defenders advantage is real
>to the last ukrainian
yeah, six million ukronazis already killed and zelensisraelite fleeing to poland
puccia is winning
check incel slave z
Absolute moron. Abrams when idling fall back on an APU. During combat their consumption is similar
>due to fuel consumption
The Abrams was designed to move quickly between defensive positions, but because ww3 never happened it instead went on big offensives and in urban combat.
Turbine engines are efficient at higher speeds but when idling it's still running. That's it. Not a big deal.
link?
Why didn't they paint it?
HOW many Abramses were delivered!?
https://twitter.com/Jeff21461/status/1754154290841575654
>This video was not shot in Ukraine. The tank seen is am M1A2 variant while Ukraine only received 31 M1A1SA from the US.
EU is putting together their TZD military aid bill as we speak, and usa is trying to find workarounds.
>Trump and his cronies blocking aid to Ukraine seems to have finally reached a breaking point for Ukraine
Reminder we are now THREE (3) days since the EU signed off on $54bn.
That was a financial assistance bill which is nice since it keeps the lights on, and the EU military aid bill is coming soon.
>Russia has making gains at all the hot spots on the front the past few weeks
Can I see them? (unironically)
They did make some gains at Avdiyivka but in true Russian fashion they claimed a 2km advance which was ~400m in reality.
Ukrainian mil bloggers also claim they took a few settlements in Khariv oblast near Kupyansk.
Russians have amassed 500 tanks and 700 armored vehicles to take Kupansk, and 40,000 men.
Ukrainians have 300 tanks, 20,000 men and 10,000 drones waiting.
BATTLE OF KURSEDK 2
>Ukies outnumbered 2-to-1
then it is an even fight
Ukrainians will butcher them and prob spring a surprise like F-16s, but they are suffering from a drop in ammo at the moment, thanks to the homosexual Biden and Europe missing production targets again, but probably they are saving up ammo too
>thanks to the homosexual Biden
you mean republicans
the Republicans are straight-up traitors, but Biden is a homosexual who should have the experience to tard-wrangle them a lot better than he has
Traitors to ~~*(who*~~ comrade?
>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T TRY TO PRESERVE PEACE ON THE CONTINENT WITH OUR STRONGEST ALLIES AND TRADING PARTNERS AGAINST OUR SECOND-BIGGEST GEOPOLITICAL RIVAL, THAT'S WHAT THE israeliteS WANT, NOOOOOOO!
To the very republican party of old. There was a time when Republicans went to war to free others from bondage, to liberate the western world, and to promote liberty, democracy, and western values. Now they simp for dictators, and promote a wanabe dictator.
You homosexuals spent the entirety of the 2000s calling bush a war criminal over anything happening in Iraq.
Republicans did? No. Quite the opposite. Or do you immediately think that criticism of the cult currently in vogue is somehow indicative of Democrat leanings? If so, you might be part of said cult.
A for effort guys, but the low-effort shitflinging isn't working. The thread's about the Abrams, not whatever US political bullshit you're trying to stir up.
traitors to White people you stupid mutt
No, actually. Doctrinally, it's an insufficient force to attempt an attack at an entrenched opponent, and that is not even counting training differences and equipment quality, as well as the soundness of the concept. I predict TZD.
I was trying to be nice to them for once, just to spice things up before their inevitable defeat
There is no point in being nice to a vatBlack person, for they will not appreciate it and will, instead, take it for weakness. No mercy on vatBlack folk.
500 Armatas will surely turn the war in favor of Russia
Seeing everyone seems to know about it shit is going to be wild.
Hope they still have some Brimstone missiles laying around.
Kursk 2 with Abrams duking it out with T-series eastern front circa 2024 ohh man i dont want to see people die anymore but that would be a sight to behold.
I see the 120'000 strong Russian Kupiansk offensive ran into a few problems making it to the starting line then.
so vatBlack folk are staging another "feint"
>stocking up on popcorn
Russian troops have advanced into the built-up area of Avdiyivka, and there are street battles in the city
This was announced on Facebook by the editor-in-chief of Censor.NET Yuriy Butusov.
According to him, Russian units were entrenched on one of the streets on the northern outskirts of Avdiyivka.
"If you measure in a straight line, the advanced units of the enemy are at a distance of about one and a half kilometers from the entrance to the city. Two weeks ago, the enemy managed to enter two streets on the southern outskirts of the city. The situation is critical," writes Butusov .
He also noted that the 110th mechanized brigade, as well as several attached units, are engaged in battles with the enemy, which is several times superior in strength and constantly deploys fresh reinforcements for its infantry.
" Avdiivka immediately needs fresh reserves and rotation of units of the heroic 110th brigade, which maintains control despite the absolute exhaustion from almost two years of continuous fighting in the city. Ammunition is also needed - supplies are also extremely small, the enemy has a great advantage in means of destruction," - it is said in the message.
bye bye mandickhead!
Uhh, posting an advancement of 3 houses within a village at the frontline for the past 2 years is not the kind of post you thought you were making anon...
Anons, Avdiivka has been on the frontlines since 2014.
It's literally taken them 10 years to get this far!
>almost two years of continuous fighting in the city.
why would you self-own like that?
Hi manbic. Careful not to crack the bottle.
>pic related
A true savior of the white race...
Just a quick reminder of the distances involved here
>mi
No hablo espaniol
>3 Day SMO FROM Kyiv
You will never be Albanian.
the city? you mean the flattened suburb of donetsk? that russian / wannabe russians failed to seize and are continuing to fail for a decade nearly (!)
>
why is it in desert camo? burgers couldn't even repaint it?
>Muh Abrams
Can somebody explain to me why USA instead of sending 50 Abrams doesnt send 1000 M60's?
They dont use them anymore, and they produced frickton of them, surely they should be enough for russian T55's right?
Overmatch is the name of the game. This is a real war, and we're all about sending the right stuff that won't overwhelm their supply chains.
>Can somebody explain to me why USA instead of sending 50 Abrams doesnt send 1000 M60's?
they dont have 1000 M60s
they were all pulled from active duty and are now most likely just being used as donors for everyone they sold them to
it would literally be more effort to repair them up to M60A3 standard than it would be to upgrade existing M1A1s
we don't have anymore M60s dude, it's over. The last ones were retired 27 years ago
Weird that Russia can still have stockpilles of tanks build in the '50 that are good for reactivation in few weeks or months at worst while USA scrapped all its tanks from the '70 just 10 years after the replacement/new gen was introduced
... The first M60s were activated in 1959, they were in service until 1997. It wasn't until 1992 that they were declared totally obsolete (which they are).
>weird
Not really, no. The two have had and do have very different design and procurement philosophies and processes.
The idea that we would ever use 60 year old antiques was unthinkable. If Russia wasn't willing to pull garbage out of the scrap heap, they would actually be out of options.
>The idea that we would ever use 60 year old antiques was unthinkable.
I dont understand why. 60 yo. tank is better than no tank.
That's why. Because the idea that we'd run out of tanks is unthinkable.
NTA
Honestly it was a failure of policy, the idea was the US had enough for the US and wouldn't accept the casualties that would come from using M60s in a hot war.
They forgot that being able to supply other nations with your old shit grants major political points for minimal cost.
Not really, because it dies to everything on the battlefield, especially mines, and Ukraine's soldiers are its most valuable asset. They don't have thousands of tank crews anyway.
>Not really, because it dies to everything on the battlefield
Just like unprotected infantry, most APCs and MRAPS etc
At least they could have reused hulls or something
It's weird in the sense that Russia is poor and backward, yes
The US has stockpiles of old tanks just like the Russians, the difference is ours are thirty years newer.
The main difference is that the Sierra depot is a bit more climate appropriate than Siberia.
their also stored far better, the land the US uses sees almost no rainfall, and is relatively the same humidity all year round, for decades at a time. Its perfect for storing mechanical gear for long periods. Meanwhile russia dumped thousands of tanks and vehicles in swamps.
Count from space
2 years give or take
>tanks build in the '50 that are good for reactivation
Because America actually considers things like survivability of crew being more efficient than simply letting them all die and replacing them with Asiatic immigrants, whereas ziggers are totally expendable because when they die it is good.
Unlike Russia, we don't keep massive stocks of obsolete hardware parked in the middle of nowhere. Those M60s were either sold off to people like Turkey or were turned into museum pieces years ago.
They don't have any. There are none left in the US.
What kind of /k/ommando wouldn't want to watch a livestream of a T-55 imploding like they did back in Desert Storm on glorious 120fps, 4k quality?
All the M60s that weren’t scrapped were sold.
M60s are out of date tech and the Abrams has been around long enough and has been produced enough that it would be easier and cheaper for Ukraine to receive them. Not to mention that more nations are adopting Abrams tanks, including Poland and Romania, so any repairs or upgrading can be done with ease rather than a half of dozen mechanics who never even heard of the M60!trying to Black person rigg it because nobody in Europe aside from Turkey operates the damn things.
>but Ukraine has M60 AVBLs
And they’re not being used in a massive capacity nor are they meant to fight in combat.
This applies to any other military worth its salt.
Why would the US stockpile tanks it doesn’t need and no longer has an industrial base or logistical system to back them up. Aside from long term storage in the desert and shipping spare parts to nations that actually field the damn things, the M60s is as good as a museum piece. The US already has thousands of abrams in service or in long term desert storage.
Russia’s military doctrine has been relying on soviet leftovers and seldom fly upgrading and advancing its military tech to compete with the world.
You have made more "M60s for Ukraine" threads than there are serviceable tanks left in American service, M60tard.
tbf m60 tard could be some logi guy at the Sierra depot that just wants to not deal with them anymore.
there aren't any more M60s, which is what M60tard would know if he worked there.
That would be hilarious
I don't see the Ukrainians or NATO invading their neighbors, destroying their cities, killing their people, raping their women and kidnapping their children. But I guess that does equate to peace in a Black person's mind. Black person.
There's some sort of poetry Abrams vid was posted a few hours after the T-55 vid
Abrams as bait would be better. Russians would be itching to take one out with Ka50. Perfect time to setup some MANPAD crews or SA.
>these things destroyed over a hundred iraqi t-72's
they'll be fine
>iraqis having t-72s
they only had t-55s. America doesn't know about real wars they only attack poor countries with no military
>they only had T-55s
t. moron
>they only had t-55s
How fortunate, so does Russia.
Thank God the Abrams are fighting Puccia then.
>America doesn't know about real wars
Hard to do so when there's no real enemies on your level. Also rather unneccessary to know in that case.
The russians sold the equipment to basically everyone we've fought since the 2nd world war. Does that mean there just aren't any armies anymore outside of ours? Saddam had the best weapons you could buy with black gold, from the Soviets and even the West alike. Still got steamrolled.
Well, we did sell a ton of M60s so the West-aligned countries DID get supplied. But in the Cold War you were pretty clearly 1st, 2nd, or 3rd world. And if you weren't with us, very little tanky for you.
>to liberate the western world
Anon in all fairness, that was Democrats in charge during WW2 AND WW1. Even if by modern standards they may be considered more conservative. Wilson in particular, what with the Birth of a Nation stuff.
T72s, sure. Most modernized T72s? Not really. Blocks mean everything, and most of the best stuff is dwindled down pretty hard. Hence we get T55s rolled out.
>destroying the things that are theirs
>Destroying
The bases are still there anon. All they changed was the name. Wikipedia article is still going to say "Formerly known as Fort Slavenport, founded by and named for Major General Cornellius Cornwall Theodore Slavenport III (1798-1869) of the 8th Georgia Artillery Regiment to defend against the 3rd Sakachotwa raids of 1839, later used as a slave trade station with Tejas (now Mexico) and as a powder plant during the Civil War, where 800 black men would load barrels with refined black powder every day. Seen here is a picture of the whipping stand used on slaves who missed their quota" or whatever.
>Anon in all fairness, that was Democrats in charge during WW2 AND WW1. Even if by modern standards they may be considered more conservative. Wilson in particular, what with the Birth of a Nation stuff.
Ostensibly, yes, Democrats were in charge, however, how many dissenting Republicans did you see there? How many kept trying to sabotage the war effort because they believed the Krauts, Japs, or Wops were the better alternative for the world? That is not the world we live in today. The Republican party has lost its way, and the cancer that now exists within needs to be excised. They laughed at Bush and the so-called Bush Doctrine, but the fact is that it didn't go far enough. It is not only terrorists and non-state actors, but dictatorships, the source of their funding, and any entity that is not compatible with the modern western democracies that needs to be destroyed before they make a mess. Look what the liberals got us. We were sold the lie of economic interdependence in order to stave-off war. We were told that negotiation and diplomacy, economic pressure, and soft power would be the tools for the next century and that we could finally let go of the world, but as soon as this is tried, the animals try to re-assert themselves. This is unacceptable. America has a mission, and it is to free the world permanently. Just as other forces of the past did before us, when they freed enslaved peoples, undid the monarchic houses of Europe, and destroyed fascism and communism as political forces, so must we too continue this project and completely eliminate any force that can threaten democracy and western values. The world must be made safe for Democracy.
How much do they pay you to write this idiocy on the internet?
>Blyad, a man with opinions. Must be paid like me, suka.
Every accusation is a confession, pidor.
i just noticed something
lancet spam stopped
With this current buildup they'll probably go quiet just before shit kicks off and stay quiet until they have something to show.
Apparently that factory that blew up in Moscow in the late autumn was a lancet factory.
>Apparently that factory that blew up in Moscow in the late autumn was a lancet factory.
kek nice
I hope no one was hurt. For those not aware, the lancet factory was a bunch of enslaved Russian engineering students and african girls. Russians ran loverboy scams to entice african girls to come to Russia where they were then effectively enslaved.
Meds
Wrong facility. But if you want to hate Russians more read this. You will not find sweeter more wholesome women than Africans so this really disturbs me.
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/59075374/#59075970
>source: some dude on twitter
What moron believes this shit? This is spoon rape tier nonsense.
It's probably fake, but I wouldn't put that kind of schemes past them, I've seen a Tanzanian news report about one of their nationals studying in Russia being forcefully enrolled in Wagner and dying in Bakhmut
>https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/59075374/#59075970
jesus christ
>flag is half soviet union half imperial russia
don't this clowns know that the former killed the latter?
What makes you think that matters? There's a reason a bunch of US bases were named after confederates. Good or bad, whatever they fought for, your history is your history and you do yourself no favours by forgetting that or worse, villifying it.
Those bases all had their names changed recently.
Yeah because the US is a dying culture.
>Nooo, my hecking confederinos need bases too.
Get over it, trailer-dweller.
I'm not american. It's just sad to see people destroying the things that are theirs and believing that they have become richer for it. I don't expect someone like you to be able to understand that, though.
>I'm not american.
Then shut the frick up. We don't care.
Yeah sure you don't care so much you cry about it on an Assyrian calligraphy forum. That's how much you don't care.
What?
>What makes you think that matters? There's a reason a bunch of US bases were named after confederates. Good or bad, whatever they fought for, your history is your history and you do yourself no favours by forgetting that or worse, villifying it.
The weird mixture of Tsarist and Soviet symbols in Russia looks like some of the stuff like the U.S. did in the 20th century with Civil War commemorations. But history is always selectively reinterpreted to fit the needs of the present. The base formerly known as Fort Hood was built during World War II when there were American generals had grandfathers who fought in Civil War, and there were people who still identified with the Confederacy, and that was to serve the needs of the time.
For similar reasons, the U.S. military has been reviving some "World War II" stuff like with the new Army dress uniforms that are a deliberate callback. Great national purpose and unity stuff. It's also true in our politics, both the left and right are looking back at periods in the 20th century to ground their politics whether it's the 1950s (not the Confederacy) for the right or FDR's New Deal coalition on the left, but they all kind of want the same thing.
I think it's true in Russia as well. The liberal people in Moscow who hate Putin are not that different from the people actually in charge of the Kremlin. If the goons running the Russian government were really Soviet then they wouldn't be waging some half-assed "SMO." It's really one clan against the other. The liberal clan is a bit more technocratic and has more Western MBAs under their belts, but the Soviet past is an embarrassment for all of them so they prefer to pretend to be some sort of royalty, and are drawn to making shitty copies of imported western culture. That's why the Russian propaganda looks a lot like Fox News and Dubya-era stuff. Funny Russian T.V. bit:
those bastards put that woman in the red dress to draw and glue your eyes to the fricking sznikers logo
>the Soviet past is an embarrassment for all of them
For the rest of eastern Europe sure, but for Russia the Soviet past is something to be proud of, especially for the military. You see its symbolism everywhere in the Russian military and their propaganda. The same is true for the Russian Empire. It's less about selective reinterpretation, and more an intentional awareness that all of Russian history is the inhertiance of the Russians of today, and that selectively dismissing parts of your history according to the prevailing ideology is what the "Degenerate West" does.
See picrel from last year, and this
Schizophrenia: the picture
The Civil war commemorations was more about getting over the past and emphasizing that the usa was one nation again.
The russians are stuck in a country that is on the brink of losing it's great power status or even no longer being a power. They reach back to both the soviet and the russian imperial era because that was when they where undisputed (super) powers.
They are both apolitical. The civil war commemoration ignored the political reasons for the war since the north and south shared more politically than they differ (on the global stage).
The russians worshiping past empires because they do not care why they used to be strong only that they where, cargo cult "if we do like when we where strong, we will be strong". They simply don't care about the conflicting politics of the empire and the ussr because they don't care about politics just putin stronk = putin good.
the commemoration was wholesome, family remembering a fight they had but how they got over it and are strong for it.
The russians are going to the graves of their two dead wife beater uncles that drunk themselves to death and remembering fondly how they'd be the shit out of their kids.
yeah and they entice israeli scientists from abroad with masturbation machines!
>using sweatshop-tier workers to build somewhat complex systems.
What could go wrong?
I hope all of them died slowly.
I saved this to ensure that TZD never truly dies.
The way putin is quoting Alaxander the Great I rekon the girls at least got the "loverboy" part....
>lancet spam stopped
Now that you mentioned it, yeah.
Ruskies really did use only two factories to manufacture them? And one of them burned up already.
>lancet spam stopped
Two today, five yesterday, and January 24 has had an all time high of 141 a month. Sometimes I wonder if you live in an alternate reality.
Ukraine is throwing whatever is left of their best units into the Avdiivka meat grinder, this is a grave mistake and will permanently destroy their offensive capabilities
am i wrong or is it missing a penel in the back?
Not a Ukrainian Abrams, this is an American SEPv2 or SEPv3.
D&C Russbot post to derail the thread with American politics.
Why not the lav-25? They use 25mm bushmaster and are being phased out. I do not know about survivability.
they are not being phased out quite yet, there aren't enough new ACVs yet to replace all of them.
>russia-has-massed-500-tanks
That’s just asking for HIMARS strikes
say it with me /k/: NOT A REAL ABRAHAMABRAMS
without shells useless
Okay but ziggers will be very disappointed if they ever destroy one and don't find a washing machine.
Or does the Turbine comes with a spin-drying function?
Seems to me what's needed in Ukraine is more and better engineer vehicles.