>90% of military fiction is just "And then this cool weapon was invented that dominated the battlefield forever and all other vehicles suck no...

>90% of military fiction is just "And then this cool weapon was invented that dominated the battlefield forever and all other vehicles suck now compared to it"
But was there ever a time in history where this actually was true?

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    nooks

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      nukes aren't meant to be ridden, Slim.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Faek and gae

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are you mentally handicapped?
    >the tank for like a century
    >airplanes
    >helos
    >practical submarines
    >aircraft carriers
    last century or so has been filled with "and then they invented this cool vehicle which changed everything and was super useful for a long fricking time"

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >the tank for like a century
      Needed infantry and air support.

      >airplanes
      >helos
      Can't hold land and vulnerable to anti-air

      >practical submarines
      Vulnerable to anti-sub planes, helicopters, and ships

      >aircraft carriers
      Literally just a carrier for other vehicles that requires escorts

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well, if you're going to moronic be like that, then the answer is no. Even the ur-example of cavalry, chariots, elephants, bronze working, homosexual sapiens, flint knapping, homosexual erectus etc are disqualified.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Mounted knights....kinda. Training a man for years, buy a big strong horse, and fitting both with armor was a massive investment of resources. It was basically a way of throwing money at the problem.

      >Tanks
      Was vulnerable to grenades and direct fire artillery right off the bat.
      >Airplanes
      Early airplanes could be killed by a rifle. There was a period where they could fly over AAA range but then we saw SAMs develope.
      >Helos
      Even more vulnerable to AA systems. Early Hueys were vulnerable to AKs and there's enough MANPADs to make them ineffective in direct combat.
      >Practical submarines
      Depends on what you mean by submarines but they're still vulnerable to sub hunting aircraft.
      >Carriers
      As powerful as they are, Carriers would be useless without their aircraft compliment.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >actually carriers are strong only because they carry aircraft
        your mother should've finished the job with the coathanger

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But am I wrong?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >But am I wrong?
            Yes, and stupid.
            It's like saying a rifle isn't a weapon system because it fires bullets and that bullets are the real weapon. By your logic aircraft aren't the weapon because they shoot missiles, drop bombs and fire guns. Sorry the guns on the aircraft fire bullets.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              But aircraft can fight independent from a carrier. Is a gun all that important if the bullets fire themselves?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Is a gun all that important if the bullets fire themselves?
                However, bullets don't, just like aircraft need to come from a air base. A carrier is an airbase the moves where needed anywhere you have ocean.
                The carrier isn't by main purpose an anti land unit. It's purpose is to dominate the ocean far enough away from land air bases to create strategic depth.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Actually, aircraft don't necessarily need an airbase. Some are VTOL and can operate from anywhere while others can use highways or any reasonably flat piece of land to launch from.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And have almost no combat load and almost no range.
                Literally no one in the world operates VTOL like you suggested so it's moot.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Regardless, planes don't need airbases and carriers to be effective. Giving carriers credit as the be-all-end-all weapon falls apart if an airbase does the same job if locally.

                >But am I wrong?
                Yes, and stupid.
                It's like saying a rifle isn't a weapon system because it fires bullets and that bullets are the real weapon. By your logic aircraft aren't the weapon because they shoot missiles, drop bombs and fire guns. Sorry the guns on the aircraft fire bullets.

                Irrelevant in this case. Aircraft can be shot down by SAM systems so they don't fight entirely unopposed.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Nobody operates VTOL
                USMC does and they are the third largest air force in the world after the USAF and USN. Harrier and F-35C buttfrick everything. F-35 stealth fighters also dominate all non stealth fighters. Non-stealth sucks compared to stealth.

                >But muh turning radius
                Didn't work out very well for Japan

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody operates VTOL FROM DIRT AIRSTRIPS you fricking moron

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The OP is about a wunderwaffe. None of these were that kind of technology that dominated the battlefield and everything else sucks now compared to it. The closest example of this was probably literally the bow and arrow or the shield, where it absolutely revolutionized warfare and fighting without it presented a severe handicap.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    horses
    and then later, motor vehicles

    sailing ships eventually put galleys out of business
    and then steam/diesel/etc ships put sailing ships out of business

    >fiction
    In Patlabor, mecha are mainly used for construction and police work. The military has some but they are niche use and tend to get shrekt by tanks and particularly attack helicopters

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >horses
      Horses make sense. Horse archers and then later medieval knights on horseback were very much the meta and it seems like you could single-handedly win battles solely with them.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        horses
        and then later, motor vehicles

        sailing ships eventually put galleys out of business
        and then steam/diesel/etc ships put sailing ships out of business

        >fiction
        In Patlabor, mecha are mainly used for construction and police work. The military has some but they are niche use and tend to get shrekt by tanks and particularly attack helicopters

        mounted troops always fought alongside regular infantry
        they never totally invalidated them and they served different enough roles on the battlefield that replacing them was never an option

        so its not like a gundam situation, where within 1 year of deployment, tanks and jets had been virtually totally replaced by mobile suits

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The only times you get a switch that fast and extreme is when a high tech civilization sells gear to a low tech one. AKs vs spears tier tech difference.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tanks were only "replaced" because Zeon had been driven off of Earth and they couldn't into space.
          This was the top Zaku killer, not the GM.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's not a Fly Manta.
            And the Federation had Balls to fight in space.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Balls were literally last ditch weapons for the Hail Mary Solomon and A Baoa Qu offensive.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Hail Mary

                For the zekes? Because once they got kicked off Earth it was a matter of time before the Federation would have been kicking down their doors.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >within 1 year of deployment, tanks and jets had been virtually totally replaced by mobile suits
          I want that kind of production, training and logistics.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            gundam manufacturing pipeline is crazy, especially on the zeke side

            they first learned of the gundams existence in september 0079, designed the gelgoog and had prototypes of it for field testing by mid-december of 0079 when char got his own red one to check its real world performance
            and then had it mass-produced by late december of 0079, though only got to see a single battle before the war ended

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >prototype field testing to mass production in two weeks
              What kind of tests could you possibly run that quickly that could matter? 'Does it explode when you turn it on' is all that comes to mind

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >tanks and jets had been virtually totally replaced by mobile suits

          A shame for the series, because this fat bottomed, wing commander looking b***h is the best.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I love that manga doing ridiculous amount of work to retcon and justify the craziest design of Gundam.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >making core fighter boosters as a "cost recuperation" measure

              I'm surprised the idea of "GM + mass-produced/modified G-Armor" hasn't been used more.

              The Core Block system remains a pretty underused gimmick in my opinion. Bandai could have made some money selling GM-Guntank-esque model kits and expansion parts.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >The Core Block system remains a pretty underused gimmick in my opinion. Bandai could have made some money selling GM-Guntank-esque model kits and expansion parts.
                Of course it is underused, it was toyetic addition to a setting that tried to be much more realistic than the norm of the time.
                It take godlike retcon to justify it coming to existence for any kind of purpose.

                It is lucky that by Gundam Standard any brick can be made to fly and we don't ask much question like where is the micro-fusion reactor is inside the folding Core fighter (since it supposedly is, no matter how little sense it make)

                btw:

                where do they fit the propellant?

                >where do they fit the propellant?
                By Gundam standard that thing have micro-nuclear powerplant, within atmosphere it can just breath/heat the air, in space the power packed by anything nuclear would make whatever propellant is between the engines enough deltaV to reach the moon, land and come back.
                Might as well ask where they put the heat radiator.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Might as well post this

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                https://i.imgur.com/yElYwJd.jpg

                Might as well post this

                https://i.imgur.com/a4vT8QJ.png

                >making core fighter boosters as a "cost recuperation" measure

                I'm surprised the idea of "GM + mass-produced/modified G-Armor" hasn't been used more.

                The Core Block system remains a pretty underused gimmick in my opinion. Bandai could have made some money selling GM-Guntank-esque model kits and expansion parts.

                https://i.imgur.com/EXQ5H8m.jpg

                I love that manga doing ridiculous amount of work to retcon and justify the craziest design of Gundam.

                And for added irony

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            where do they fit the propellant?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >tanks and jets had been virtually totally replaced by mobile suits
          Come on now, that's not even remotely true.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Come on now, that's not even remotely true.
            MSG 0079 was the first and last gundam in the series to prominently feature tanks and non-mobile suit mecha

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              IBO has non mobile suits at the start, with Tekkadan being a newly established PMC that gets most of their equipment starting out from battlefield salvage. The first non MC gundam suit they get is even from a bunch of space pirates they fight.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's a meme.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Chariots even earlier

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >In Patlabor, mecha are mainly used for construction and police work.
      In Patlabor, the patlabor policing work only applies to other (rogue) labors and not police in general, tho.
      >military
      They have sort of heavy infantry and walking tank too (those get rekt by rpgs lmao).

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >the patlabor policing work only applies to other (rogue) labors and not police in general
        (usually)

        There's an episode of the Patlabor TV show where the police labors are used for traffic cop duties for instance, but that's mostly played for laughs.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Human history is all about this wtf man

    Firearms made a huge shift in all kinds of technology, heavy cavalry, pikes, etc

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, but not exactly over night.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A work of fiction glossing over the development and logistics involved in bringing a new invention to the front is normal. You're supposed to assume they did all that stuff in the background and not magically create a new army overnight.

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    all of history, starting with the first time a monkey picked up a club

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >But was there ever a time in history where this actually was true?
    Basically every single period in military history at one point or another, and it started with this.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. More evidence of chariot warfare starting before horseback warfare. Very white person aryan tribe thing.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Let's just ignore the Egyptians

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They got it from the Hyksos (who came from canaan which conquered them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And before them the sumerians in mesopotamia

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    HMS Dreadnought and the Dreadnought type ships that came after it are the first thing that comes to mind. It completely changed battleship doctrines and persisted until aircraft carriers superseded it.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      One thing the HMS Dreadnought doesn't get enough credit for is that time it sunk an attack submarine, back when people were worried subs would beat battleships in a cost-effective manner.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Even if it takes 10 subs to down one battleship you're still trading favorably from a raw material standpoint

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's hard to understate how revolutionary Dreadnought was, everything down to the building techniques was changed and Dreadnought even rolled off the line before an old style battleship which had started work before she was laid down had finished.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >understate
        That's not the right word.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >guns

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this.

      the second the trigger actuated matchlock is made ubiquitous in the late 1400's it's basically been the gun on the top of the heap for 550 years.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The belt fed machinegun

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      doesnt really qualify for OPs question though
      since bolt-actions and magazine-fed machine guns existed alongside them pretty much until today
      and the semi-auto rifle and full-auto rifle exist just fine alongside the machine gun

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Weapon? No, but some supporting technology certainly qualifies. We currently live in a post-night vision world, either you have it or youre victim to those who do. Weapons and vehicles are generally incrementally improved, most stuff just sucks to begin with. The tank was a game changer when it was first revealed, but of the 49 tanks first deployed, only 9 survived the Somme without being destroyed or breaking down. Every weapon has a counter, if not right away then eventually, so the anime trope of thing being the best and never having a counter just isnt applicable to reality.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The biggest counter to the tank at the Somme was their own reliability, not German countermeasures

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    trucks essentially made horses completely useless beyond very niche scenarios

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >trucks essentially made horses completely useless beyond very niche scenarios

      When the roads became too muddy for wheels, horses and half-tracks were used.

      Also, if fuel ran out but somehow, there's enough horse feed / grain / water for packhorses to keep operating.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its not weapons or vehicles but the doctrines that utilise them. The Phalanx for example was just as effective as ever vs enemy forces Caesar fought but was invalidated by Roman doctrines more than a century before. Spears/pikes and shields were not made redundant just repurposed but even so the Phalanx dominated for hundreds of years.

    Heavy cavalry was implemented successfully, millennia before the big war horses of the middle ages were bred. Yet a modern Arabian race horse would be imposing compared to Alexander's cavalry while the big Percherons for example would seem like a different breed.

    No single weapon however, in all of history, was an immediate game changer with total dominance as other have said not even the tank. Anti tank guns were made during WW1. Even the bow was outclassed by slingers for a long time.

    What eventually became a dominant weapon of battle or war typically had to be developed over time into its 'final' form or was poorly deployed and used with inferior doctrine. Amiens is the battle that set the standard for tank use instead of the previous moronation of either letting them go forward on their own or using men as human shields to protect the precious mobile metal coffin, which was fricked as soon as those men were cut down.

    Combined Arms has been the prevailing battlefield tactic and war doctrine for the last 100 years.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      "Outdated" weapons can also hard counter more "advanced" forces which don't incorporate an equivalent unit or when they are used in a new way. Chariots were outdated for 1000 years before Caesar, right until he invaded Britain and found he had no counter to the skirmish tactics of local charioteers with a warrior prince and his men at arms being able to engage soldiers at his leisure then withdraw near instantly. Which is whey he brought Gallic cavalry the next time.

      F-22 and F-35?

      With the exception of British subs the US is so far beyond its competitors they might as well be fighting aliens from Proxima centuri.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    F-22 and F-35?

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    imagine being substantially worse than a /tg/ namegay
    https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/HPhI88IKHOLnZMvuq8M6Og/

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Constantly
    >horses
    >massed spear formations
    >copper
    >bronze
    >chariots
    >metallurgy improving enough to work with iron (way more cost-effective than bronze and doesn't require a huge logistics network to import multiple ores that don't form anywhere near one another)
    >stirrups
    >gunpowder
    >various improvements in firearms over centuries (flintlocks, caplocks, breech-loading cartridge-fed guns, self-loading, etc)
    >dreadnoughts
    >aircraft
    >aircraft carriers
    And surely many many more: that's just off the top of my head

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Try winning a war with only aircraft carriers and it won’t go well.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Chariots, then Horses, then long pikes, then steel swords, then horses (now featuring stirrups), then pikes again, then guns, then artillery, then turboprop planes, then jets, and now missiles.

      >stirrups
      How did such a small thing make such a big difference? Why did nobody come up with them before?
      All the other things listed required far more overhead to develop and adopt.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gundam/mech = Sunrise = absolute braindead trash.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The Musket Wars were a series of as many as 3,000 battles and raids fought throughout New Zealand (including the Chatham Islands) among Māori between 1806 and 1845, after Māori first obtained muskets and then engaged in an intertribal arms race in order to gain territory or seek revenge for past defeats. The battles resulted in the deaths of between 20,000 and 40,000 people and the enslavement of tens of thousands of Māori and significantly altered the rohe, or tribal territorial boundaries, before the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840.

    >The increased use of muskets in intertribal warfare led to changes in the design of pā fortifications, which later benefited Māori when engaged in battles with colonial forces during the New Zealand Wars.

    >Ngāpuhi chief Hongi Hika in 1818 used newly acquired muskets to launch devastating raids from his Northland base into the Bay of Plenty, where local Māori were still relying on traditional weapons of wood and stone. In the following years he launched equally successful raids on iwi in Auckland, Thames, Waikato and Lake Rotorua, taking large numbers of his enemies as slaves, who were put to work cultivating and dressing flax to trade with Europeans for more muskets. His success prompted other iwi to procure firearms in order to mount effective methods of defence and deterrence and the spiral of violence peaked in 1832 and 1833, by which time it had spread to all parts of the country except the inland area of the North Island later known as the King Country and remote bays and valleys of Fiordland in the South Island. In 1835 the fighting went offshore as Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama launched devastating raids on the pacifist Moriori in the Chatham Islands.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Love when history proves time and time again that natives were not peace-loving noble peoples that only wished to be one with the land and were robbed by le savage, evil colonial wypipo man, and the moment you give them a pointier stick they turn it right back towards their kin

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And remember, when natives use every part of the animal, it's ancient wisdom, but when white people do it it's man made horrors beyond your comprehension. Even though the only difference is the scale at which it's done.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Damn anon, wait till you learn what happened when Europeans got their hands on gunpowder

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That's not even really true in your pic related. Scopedogs get fricked up all the time in their source material and really don't want to go up against tanks in an open field.

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    As many anons have already said, history is filled with examples.
    The phalanx
    Chariots
    Crossbows
    Firearms
    Tanks
    Planes
    Nukes

    The biggest of all of these is easily the firearm, and I'm shocked I'm not seeing more people point this out on FIREARMS board. The widespread introduction and use of the gunpowder and primitive firearms essentially turned medieval warfare on it's head and effectively made the Knight obsolete overnight. Before that if you had enough family lineage, money, and power you could acquire or have armor made. Add in a horse and you've figuratively tanked yourself up into a walking war machine. After the induction of firearms none of that mattered. Any peasant with a metal tube, some gunpowder and shot could ice your ass. It changed the way wars were fought. It fundamentally changed what people even considered a 'weapon' to be. Once firearms were widely adopted all of the previous weapons of wars - spears, shields, swords were almost wholly reduced to just ceremonial items.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >FIREARMS board.
      Weapons board
      > Knight obsolete overnight
      Pikes made the Knight obsolete overnight. Mounted knights anyway. Foot knights persisted for a while.
      > Once firearms were widely adopted all of the previous weapons of wars - spears, shields, swords were almost wholly reduced to just ceremonial items.
      Saber armed cavalry persisted well into the 1800s.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Knights weren't obsolete. If anyone can afford them, it's them. Also, guns existed for nearly a millennium. All those others coexisted for a long time.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because most of us are quite aware that knights persisted in their role for centuries alongside firearms. Cannon had a much greater immediate impact due to the required changes in fortifications to counter them and the expense of the necessary modification.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This. Medieval war was all hitched on castles and gunpowder forced every castle to change its design

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Gundam was basically a story about fighter pilots in WW2.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In Gundam, straight up physics got a massive change with Minovksi physics. It's what let's everyone get nuclear fusion reactors they fit in a mech and jams radars well enough that nuking from a far distance is impossible.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah but that's just a handwave for why the fighter pilots have to dogfight in space and why the fighters have to look like giant people.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          MS are human shaped because toys, and also later justification that they needed weapons that could fight in EVA, on the moon, on and inside space colonies, then later on earth. Fighters and other sillier shaped weapons never stopped being useful at least in the OYW.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/T2uL74l.jpg

          MS are human shaped because toys, and also later justification that they needed weapons that could fight in EVA, on the moon, on and inside space colonies, then later on earth. Fighters and other sillier shaped weapons never stopped being useful at least in the OYW.

          A lot of the early MS were wacky toys, but once they got more real robot, they filled in the background that MS developed from space construction equipment that basically looked like bulldozers with cameras, into more bipedal forms so that they could independently maneuver and use multiple tools.
          But realistically, something like the MS Ball would be used 99% of the time in space.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe the Machine gun? Though that would be because of arrogance and not the Machine Gun being so OP. Everyone refused to admit that their well disciplined lines and charges of men were useless against a giant hail of bullets for like two decades.
    Once communication tech advanced beyond a guy on a horse or men on a wind-powered boat, humans everywhere started taking strengths and weaknesses from other warzones and figuring out how they would or wouldn't work in their own backyard warzone.

    I'd argue that if there's no societal collapse, maybe in 80 years or so we'll see some stupid shit like a jet that commands 60 other jets, each one with a fuel tank enabling it to circle the globe and the radar cross section of one cubic centimeter, that can fire Ultrasonic missiles that have the radar cross-section of a water molecule. That would probably count.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nukes are the correct answer

    Nothing has had more of an impact on global politics overnight than the nuclear bomb nor has any weapon in human history so completely ensured that no one will ever frick with your territory if you have it

  25. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tanks. Airplanes. Metal boats. Schooners.

  26. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    By "90% of military fiction" do you just mean weeb gundam bullshit?

    But to answer your question, yeah, kinda, though of course it's not going to be quite the same as fictional mechas you fricking autistic weeb.

    >Chariots in ancient times, empires like the Assyrians equipped with them wiped the floor with surrounding nations that didn't have them
    >With metallurgy this has happened a few times. If you were in the Bronze Age and didn't have bronze weapons, or the Iron Age and didn't have iron ones, etc, you were pretty well fricked if you fought someone who did. Even with steel well into medieval times, some steel weapons like the Frankish sword or Toledo steel swords were known to be dominant over others in their time because of good construction.
    >Naval technology does this regularly. When the latest and greatest ship design comes out you usually get your dick kicked in if you don't have one too. Happened famously with the British Dreadnought but has happened other times too, even going back to the famous Phoenician ships in ancient times.
    >Sometimes a formation or battle strategy would do this. The Phalanx dominated everything that fought it that wasn't a phalanx for a minute.
    >Guns have been discussed enough already but I want to focus on cannons. Look at how the Ottomans fricking dominated for a couple centuries before everyone caught up with them in gun technology. Until the cannon, all of battle strategy revolved around fortresses and castles, occupying them, stationing troops in them to pose a threat to your enemy's movements, and besieging them. Cannons changed that whole ball game overnight by how good they were at knocking down walls.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >do you just mean weeb gundam bullshit?
      No, I mean 90% of military science fiction. Battletech, Dune, "The Angel of the Revolution", they all do this shit.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Battletech is Gundam bullshit in a real-robot setting. But also aerospace fighters and warships crap all over mechs.

  27. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If it's one slightly unrealistic part of gundam, it's how fast things are phased out. Now I get high intensity wars with replacements and shit. But there's timelines where people go through mechs faster than Nazi Germany hopping over to its next desperate meme project. IRL, some hardware gets refurbished and used for decades.

    Of course, there's times like in UC where Jegans remained a mainstay for decades and rear line units still used GMs. Then there's CE where GINNs are explicitly still used even during Destiny. Then we have desperate people like Zeon remnants using outdated mechs. I guess it's also observation bias. We the audience are often treated to very high intensity big conflicts where the most advanced and newest shit gets used.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yeah you're pretty explicitly following the very tip of the spear, where the magic knights fight using the newest and fanciest armors for the fate of the world

  28. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If there's one thing that is unrealistic about gundam, it's the time scales and focus on tech breakthroughs concerning military hardware.

    I understand this is a carryover from ww2 aircraft improvements but shit like the f16 is extremely fricking old and still works fairly well given its mission.
    (It was designed in 1978)

    Even two decades is nothing when talking about military hardware

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Well, the post-OYW era is a bit better about that. There's still power creep, but since Zeta era grunts generally have beam weapons by default, they can still do alright almost 10 years later. Well the GMs are usually bottom of the barrel for whatever conflict they're in, but lots of other stuff seems to do okay. In Narrative, those Gustav Karls got their shit pushed in by Dijehs.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        We should see a lot more shitty legacy platforms like zakus given updated weapons, optics and guidance systems, becoming refurbished halfway decent grunt suits like a space t64

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Also people really CANNOT fill a role for 10.000 leftover GMs and Rick Doms that are 100% spaceworthy and can hold a bazooka with le new high tech laser rounds or whatever?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Also people really CANNOT fill a role for 10.000 leftover GMs and Rick Doms that are 100% spaceworthy and can hold a bazooka with le new high tech laser rounds or whatever?

          That is basically what the Zaku Sniper type is. They gave it a giant generator backpack so it can fire long range beams from a farther support role from the back.

          GMs just get upgraded into GM IIs by Zeta and GM IIIs by ZZ. As for Rick Doms, I don't think enough were left at the end of the war as surplus to seriously care about refurbishing them. If they were still being used by remnants, well the remnants don't really have factories and workshops to overhaul their machines with. Maybe if they were lucky they had ships to carry MS.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There's also this absolute unit shitting all over the zeke remnants at the Torrington base attack in Unicorn. Not bad for a suit that hadn't seen combat in a decade and a pilot(Robin Diez, ex-Titans)that probably hadn't been inside a wienerpit in the same.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              why does it have a gaping ass

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Extra thruster that let's a 5 story tall brick fly

  29. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Cav

    Pike and shot

    Dreadnaught

    The airplane till, I argue, the shootdown of the U-2 in 1960 which started to herald the end of uncontested airspace domination.

    Nuclear submarines

    Drones with their rise as artillery observators in the first Lebanon war in 82, aided by the mass adoption by civilians, broadening capability.

  30. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    nukes changed everything. No more large-scale wars between powerful countries anymore.

    I'm glad nukes exist, so much peace since the postwar era.
    I mean, can you imagine what history post-WW2 would've looked like if nukes didn't exist?
    WW3, WW4, and WW5 could've happened up until 2024.
    I shudder to think how much casualties those wars could've had.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Horseback was basically a requirement for having any kind of wider power for literally millennia, whether it was owning your own or having enough cash to pay the ones who spent their entire lives raising and training them. Horses were still very much relevant even in the context of WW2 which was only 80 years ago next year, even if just as an auxiliary role.

      I’d argue the same kind of devastation a nuclear war would bring with it would still happen, and you just need to look at events like the Tokyo firebombing as evidence. Anyone with the means and will to do so can make a shitton of explosives designed solely to lob at the enemy with the purpose of causing as much destruction and carnage as possible, now imagine if there are entire bomber swarms flying 24/7 doing nothing but dropping an unholy mix of incendiaries as soldiers and partisans duke it out everywhere.

  31. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Iron weapons at the start of the Bronze age.

    Steel weapons used by Conquistadors in South America.

    Repeating rifles and machineguns during European colonization of the 19th-century.

    The most extreme examples are when a higher vs. lower technical culture met, not so much a specific weapon.

  32. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1903.

  33. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    F15 - literally the one weapon that made USA number 1

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The history of war is basically people making a new weapon system then BTFO everyone else until someone copies it then a period of tactical refinement until someone made a new weapon.
    Although the long stick with the pointy end held strong for like 8000 years.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is it time for the oyakodon pasta?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I want to frick the king and her son at the same time. I want Arturia to use me to teach her son how to please a man. I want my dick between the king’s breasts as she and her son practice performing oral on me. I want the king to kiss feed her son semen and teach her to swallow. I want the king to ride my dick like a horse and I want her son’s vegana on my mouth. I want to cum inside the king as I eat out the king’s son. I want the king to part her son's legs and show me her vegana. I want Mordred to scream for her daddy as I pound her. I want to fill her with just as much cum as I filled her father. I want enjoy Arthurian-style oyakodon.

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Indirect cannon fire was probably the biggest game changer in recent history. More than anything else. Though you could also argue it was the mass adoption of steam locomotives and improved command and control systems. Regardless, these technologies working in tandem were why WW1 was the way it was, as indirect artillery made the war almost unrecognizable from any that came before it and forced every army to adopt defense in depth and technology to minimize losses as preventing or countering long ranged artillery was simply impossible. In turn, mass communications and rail meant that you could now mobilize millions of men in a day anywhere you needed to. So you could kill tens of thousands of men in an hour, break open a hole in the enemy front, but by the time you’re making a breakthrough the enemy already has sent in reinforcements making it impossible to totally breach the line and improbable you’ll even hold what you’ve taken as your forces still had to fight what resistance was left + deal with counter battery while the reinforcements will be relatively unscathed. Nearly 6000 years of military tactics revolving around hammer and anvil and maneuver and breakthrough that was still used heavily in the Franco Prussian and American civil war reliant on steadfast troops engaging enemies they could see with what forces you could command via local messenger went out the door almost immediately. The end of both wars sort of were a prelude to WW1, with trench lines and an increasing use of indirect fire and mass conscription all playing a huge part. But it was the maturation and improvement of these technologies to such a scale than fundamentally changed warfare and forced a complete unlearning of military tradition and the adoption of completely new technologies to attempt to overcome the stalemate. Probably the most notable change was simply that unlike other wars, where you could break the enemy’s ability to wage war, attrition was now how war was won.

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Chariots, then Horses, then long pikes, then steel swords, then horses (now featuring stirrups), then pikes again, then guns, then artillery, then turboprop planes, then jets, and now missiles.

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Guns. Steamships. Horse cav and replaced by armored vehicles and dragoons by mechanized. Turboprops replaced piston props. All military helicopters are turbines, not piston.

    Currently we have drones dominating recon, precision bombing, cruise missile and antiship roles. It is a huge change and that's only the last two years.

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    always felt this way when watching FMP. i absolutely adored the tacticool shit as a kid but even back then i realized it always came down to the mechs easily dispatching apcs, tanks, helos and about everything else inbetween, to the point when i asked myself why anyone would even use those "deathtraps" against mechs instead of there being some sort of anti-mech mpats or something. also the protagonists always being some teenaged kid super-soldier with the experience and capabilities of a 35+ year old veteran was also iffy, but that's japan shonen magic i guess.
    that being said i absolutely loved those 90s to early 2000s tacticool animes mainly for their aesthetics. the artstyle and the colors are just so damn comfy.
    brb rewatching

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Keep in mind that Mithril was using 3rd gen Gernsbacks while the rest of the world was using 2nd gen Arms Slaves. It's like everyone is playing with F-4s and MiG-23s and then someone pulls up with a Tomcat.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >FMP
      Are you my younger self?
      FMP does a nice job off having pseudo tactic and at least looking like military weapons instead of colorful samurai
      I was told that in the original novel the mecha are like 8m tall, not 18m tall like the anime

      But when it come to details, it's magic all the way down.
      - an IFV sized mecha that jump over building
      - not jellifying the pilot with those 50G acceleration
      - who care about fuel&range?
      - invisibility fields that work on almost everything
      - mecha sized shotgun that one-shot tanks with barrel bigger than said shotgun
      - muh throwing knife with a blade folded >9000 times
      - conventional unit can't shot straight but mecha can 360° no scope
      And that's before it go into
      - literal magic protection field
      - gravity cancelling magic

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i'm planning on reading the light novel sometime, maybe there's a bit less of the magicky stuff that's in the anime since it works better in an animation.
        kinda pisses me off to no end they never continued animating the thing. shit get's shelved for more than a decade, returns with ten episodes outta nowhere only to vanish again into thin air with no plans of continuation

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In fact, given the prevalence of Kepler armor in infantry and the trend toward heavily armed parsonsels, a one-man robot like VOTOMS seems to make at least partial sense.

    If advanced exoskeletal equipment becomes widespread in future wars to challenge the biological weight limitations of infantry equipment, we are one step closer to robots.

    Of course, modern technology can't solve the mass production and serviceability problems of bipedal weapons yet.

    • 3 weeks ago
      A.I.V.

      Ideally, this is how I did it in my stories: the mech is a combination of mini mecha and powered suit in that each of the mech's legs have to be controlled by the pilot's legs and like in VOTOMS, the mech's wheels have legs for faster travel and using them requires flipping a certain switch to go from direct control of the legs to using the wheels on legs. And as pic shows, the arms are controlled by handles that have buttons to certain functions (from melee combat to handling crates).

      • 3 weeks ago
        A.I.V.

        In fact, given the prevalence of Kepler armor in infantry and the trend toward heavily armed parsonsels, a one-man robot like VOTOMS seems to make at least partial sense.

        If advanced exoskeletal equipment becomes widespread in future wars to challenge the biological weight limitations of infantry equipment, we are one step closer to robots.

        Of course, modern technology can't solve the mass production and serviceability problems of bipedal weapons yet.

        >mass production and serviceability problems

        Back on topic, you mentioned mass production and servicability. To me, I see that as a fact in real life because more soldiers means more weapons and thus, the need to industrialize weapons manufacturing.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The gun

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Didn’t immediately turn everything else useless.It took hundreds of years before it completely replaced other weapon types.

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >But was there ever a time in history where this actually was true?
    At least once off the top of my head. On February 17, 1910.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The number of German ships that sank in both wars were decisive as were the Hiroshimoot and Nagtosuckme magdumps.

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah, the gun.

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Steel.
    Gunpowder.
    Steel + Gunpowder

    Is there a battlefield without them? I think not.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Chinese and Indians whacking each other with sticks.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sticks with nails in them. And the transports to get the crying soldiers up there.

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I do wish anime stopped doing that, or at least portrayed a somewhat cohesive combined-arms force

    A mecha who don't just fly to destination on its own
    that have a niche in a larger army
    that need to call artillery or air-support
    but hold the ground and do things no tank is flexible enough to do
    without plot-armor or plot-weapon
    not humanoid
    not ridiculous transformers

    But hey, gunpla ain't gonna sell themselves!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      even gundam does some of that stuff with the flatbed truck transports in victory or the base jabbers
      FLAG is probably one of the most hardcore military aesthetics mecha OVAs and aaaalmost gets there, but not quite.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >FLAG is probably one of the most hardcore military aesthetics mecha OVAs and aaaalmost gets there, but not quite.
        heresy, in my book it have nothing realist or hardcore in any way.
        They just tried to pile up tropes like "realistic mean kinda ugly and complicated as frick" and missed big time, still made it a transformable humanoid mecha.
        In fact the "Chinese mecha" is the most realistic in that OAV.

        Patlabor beat it by far and the level wasn't that high.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          patlabor is largely civilian aesthetics, though.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What you posted could easily be made into a military scout.
            Increase wheel size,
            Add sensors,
            The rest is just camouflage, range and maybe a bit of armor.

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Polearm
    >Longbow
    >Crossbow
    >Cannon
    >Muzzleloader
    >Needle fire rifle
    >Bolt action rifle
    >Machine gun
    >Tank
    >Submarine
    >Guided ballistic missiles
    >Fighter bomber planes/jets
    >Aircraft carrier
    >Assault rifle
    >MANPA-T/Ds
    >Advanced guided munitions
    >Drones

    The Polearm wins. Man commonly used some kind of spear from the Stone Age up to World war 1 (Bayonet).

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >But was there ever a time in history where this actually was true?

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Probably above all? The Ironclad.

    Wooden ships instantly obsolete.

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The musket and later rifles

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Breachloaders.

    Encased bullets

    Artillery

    Dreadnoughts

    Anti submarines warfare

    Pike and shot against cavalry

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Therefore, metallurgy is actually the strongest weapon
    Metallurgy couldn't happen before having smart, therefor big brain is the stronkest weapon

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Brain no work good without food, have to kill for food.
      Food best weapon.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        food from land
        no good land
        no good food
        land stronkes weapon

  51. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Metallurgy isn't a weapon ya dingus, it's a tool for MAKING weapons.
    You're one abstraction layer too shallow.

  52. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Guns
    Planes

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