80kpsi alternatives

If the 308 case reduces magazine capacity too much, would you rather see 6.8SPC or 277 wolverine pressured up to 80kpsi?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I want 80kpsi 556. 100-120kpsi if possible.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. No reason 100kpsi can’t work. Sig themselves said their case is capable of it. I’d love a 6.8x51 scaled down in every dimension until it is 5.56 sized and in .224, with a VLD bullet.

      And I love all things 6.8 SPC based. I like that a receiver standard for them exists and so do PMAGs. So I pick 6.8 SPC. God I want a big bore 6.8-based thumper SBR so bad

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >the 308 case reduces magazine capacity too much
    whose retarded idea is this?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sig is using 20rd magazines to replace the 30rd

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because a 30 round .308 mag is massive and makes it so you can't really use the gun prone because the magazine digs into the ground.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's what I'm saying. Less ammo capacity. What would be your alternative?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Use the 20 rounders being provided

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Is that idea popular?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Who cares? The army doesn't issue weapons based on how popular they are.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I wonder if they couldn’t make a 30rd mag for it (and 308, 6.5CM, 8.6BLK, etc) that is only barely longer than a PMAG 30. Use nested springs like Surefire did in their 60rd quad stack to shave like an inch off.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    its literally to penetrate armor
    theyre using standard ammo outside of that

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The cartridge powder capacity is too low in the 5.56 parent case. Throwing a larger bullet in there just reduces the powder load, I don't see how you get 80k PSI unless you've got some fancy new age more powerful gun powder to use, and even if you did manage that, you'd have very limited ways to further improve the round. With a .308 parent case you have a LOT more internal volume for your gun powder allowing much better control over the loadings, and allowing future development and improvement of loadings with potentially even higher pressure loadings in the future.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What do you think about the 6.8 cartridge? Maybe not to 80k, but higher than all brass?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        6.8 SPC? it's fine but I personally like 300blk, I would like to see a new CQC dedicated PDW/SBR in 300 AAC Blackout up-pressured to the limit. Then the 6.8x51 for regular rifleman(M5) and LMG(M250).

        I can't get behind 6.8 SPC across the board though.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How does 300black not run into cartridge powder capacity if it's the same as 5.56?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It does, which is why I don't expect it to get to 80k PSI.

            But in CQC situations, it wouldn't really matter it's not like it's ever intended to be used at distances beyond about 150 meters. It's meant to be a Hispanicy boy to punch through light to moderate cover (furniture, walls, maybe bricks at close range) and kill whatever lies beyond that.

            I still want everyone else to be rocking 6.8x51 for any longer range engagements outdoors since 300blk simply isn't great at longer range.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I think the issue is the army wants something that fits everything, but great at nothing.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >you've got some fancy new age more powerful gun powder to use
      >distant chants, claps, drums
      >*KNOX*
      >*KNOX*
      >*KNOX*

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I mean, I know they have all sorts of fancy propellants potentially they can use, but I'm unsure if they can actually achieve the 80k+ PSI desired with the .223 parent case.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >3662fps 62gr 556 yielding 1845lbs of energy
          Jesus Christ what pressure and barrel length was that out of?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Unknown pressure. 14.5" barrel iirc.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            62gr 556 yielding 1845lbs of energy
            the new M855A2 just dropped senpai

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The pressures can be cranked up to a ridiculous degree. Proof loads are around 80kpsi IIRC, sig’s 6.8x51 is 80kpsi, and so their proof loads must be 100kpsi+. The 50BMG round that almost killed Scott was theorized to have been 150kpsi+. Really the big problem is designing cases and actions that can first of all, withstand the pressure without failure, and second, have a service life in the thousands of rounds. But anyways, improvements in energy density are always welcome and useful.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >277 wolverine
    Such a weird cat

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For close range applications 300 blackout kind of dominates just because it's become *the* heavy bullet 5.56 neck-up

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >6.8SPC
    >277 wolverine
    Shit cartridges with terribly bad bullets.
    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/04/04/not-so-special-a-critical-view-of-the-6-8mm-spc/
    Many such cases with 5.56 derivatives.

    You start with the good bullet first when making cartridge. Fun fact: 3rd from the right is 64 gr 5.56 bullet with 0.208 G7 BC (confirmed on range by radar), while 147 gr M80 7.62x51 has only 0.200G7 BC

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based Nathaniel F. enjoyer.
      The biggest problem with 6.8 SPC is that the chamber drawings were submitted with mistakes not once but twice. So nobody knows how many incorrectly cut chambers are out there, and most ammo is loaded to that standard rather than the original intent.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you know what he's up to these days? his blog and substack are silent and he deleted his twitter.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Unaware of any news.

          I’m not the anon you replied to, but another Nathaniel F enjoyer. He has a (now abandoned) blog: http://196800revolutionsperminute.blogspot.com/

          the original 6.8SPC loads were something like 1800fpe+, right?

          Pretty much.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          probably on the sturgeons house discord, he has a kid now so he's probably not posting because of that P8DJTW

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >have to be a useful contributing member to join

            what is the point of discord if i can't use it as a parasocial friend simulator

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I’m not the anon you replied to, but another Nathaniel F enjoyer. He has a (now abandoned) blog: http://196800revolutionsperminute.blogspot.com/

        the original 6.8SPC loads were something like 1800fpe+, right?

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    6mm-223 reportedly pushes a 90gr .243 bullet about the same (Wikipedia says it’s higher but I don’t see the barrel length note) velocity as .277 Wolverine pushes a 90gr .277 bullet. I’d rather see the 6mm cranked up in pressure with the hybrid case.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Barrel length for those tests is almost always 18-24"

      Hard to compare to the 6.8x51 since it's being shot from a ~15" barrel (barrel + suppressor length) on the M5.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well, yes, but it seems like we’re just having fun itt coming up with ideas for a cartridge that has a smaller case and higher magazine capacity than anything 7.62 NATO based by hypothetically cranking the pressure up.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That would mean SAAMI/CIP would designate it a completely separate round, it would have to be renamed.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It would have to be 277 Wolverine. 6.8 SPC is already SAAMI approved and you can't have high pressure rounds for that or people will blow up their rifles. Wolverine is a wildcat. People who are using wildcats are handloading and are savvy enough not to use high pressure rounds in their rifles.
    That said, I think using a high pressure round in a M4 sized rifle is coming but it won't be any thing that is already out there.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      what are you talking about, SAAMI already approved .277 fury at 80k PSI which if you tried to fire from some older .308 hunting rifles would probably fuck shit up.

      .308 win is ~71.12mm OAL with a ~12.01mm cartridge rim diameter while .277 fury has a ~71.76mm OAL with a ~11.99mm cartridge rim diameter. The only real difference is the bullet shape/size and obviously the powder load. The actual .277 fury cartridge itself is remarkably similar to it's .308 parent case. The cartridge wall diameter for .277 fury is 11.71mm where the taper begins and it's 11.53mm for .308, at the base of the cartridge it's 11.94mm for .277 fury and 11.96mm for .308. The length of the cartridge from the base to the taper for .277 fury is 41.42mm and 39.62mm for .308. These differences MIGHT not allow a magazine fed .308 rifle to reliably chamber .277 fury, but you could potentially load in a single round and get it to fire potentially ruining the rifle. A modern higher-end .308 rifle would likely be able to handle an 80k PSI loading, it wouldn't be happy about it and i'd expect some extra wear and tear, but I wouldn't expect it to catastrophically fail as an older rifle might.

      Would love to see someone give it a shot at some point, though I know finding .277 fury at all right now is difficult, and I don't think anyone can find an 80k PSI loading for sale even though the SAAMI spec allows it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because the .277 fury is a smaller diameter bullet, it will pass through the .308 barrel and not develop the pressure due to blow by.
        In regards to 6.8 SPC, it is because it is SAAMI that high pressure rounds won't be approved. It is powder loadings, bullets, and dimensions in the SAAMI spec. I wouldn't trust the gas system on an M4 with 80K psi.
        https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/277-Sig-Public-Introduction-Orig-2020-11-11.pdf
        https://www.recoilweb.com/impressive-ar-over-pressure-event-63779.html

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Wouldn't this be fucking terrible for accuracy?

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they can use a higher density bullet for better ballistics and have the bullet coated with softer material that compresses from it original diameter to a smaller diameter in the barrel for higher velocity. Too drunk now to remember the terminology - the germens used it on their 88s. Add tungsten or DU for the center like a penetrator. Round does not need to spin - the DU penetrator does not spin in the M1 smooth bore barrel and is accurate out to about several miles.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >would you rather see 6.8SPC or 277 wolverine pressured up to 80kpsi?

    Hey guys I have a great idea, what if we took 6.8x51 but made it worse?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Would you rather have a magazine of 30 rounds or 20?

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    300 blackout but with the 80k psi shit.

    Why?

    now you can have .308 winchester performance from a itty bitty cartridge and now have 30 of them instead of 20/25 in a larger and heavier form factor.

    People will still bitch and complain about the same reasons as the Hispanicy Ar-10 shit SIG is doing.

    Waaa waaa le wamen cant carry ammo 3x as heavy

    waa waa le wamen can't handle the recoil.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Fuck pussy calibers. I want 100kpsi .300 RUM that sends 250 gr projectiles 4,000 fps. Put it in an AR and make it the default caliber for service members. Ban women and manlets if they can't handle the recoil.

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