Now that reliable AR10 platform rifles built for subsonic 8.6 BLK are coming out, will you buy them?
Dump your 300 BLK rifles or keep both?
8.6
Now that reliable AR10 platform rifles built for subsonic 8.6 BLK are coming out, will you buy them?
Dump your 300 BLK rifles or keep both?
Less practical and more shilled .338 Federal?
8.6 and 338 Fed are not even close.
You're right, 338 Fed is far superior.
At what?
At not being able to fit long-for-cailber bullets in SR25 mag confines? Yeah it is way better at that.
At not feeding reliable in same? Yes much better.
At sucking a seemingly impossible amount more in a bolt rifle than its parent case? Yes, better also there.
It is your wallet.
What's practical? Functionality? Most things are functional. Even .22lr which is the least reliable is functional enough.
At this point you might as well get a PCC in 9mm or greater, 3d print custom sabots and goof around with bubba loads.
Also subsonic is a meme unless you buy a can, ATF is apparently actually processing forms at a rapid pace right now.
Practical in this context as ".308 based cartridges firing a .338 dia bullet". As I do view the advantage of more powder space with lighter bullets as a sensible tradeoff. You could probably stuff it with heavy bullets for the .33 Win as well for subsonic shenanigans.
8.6 died after everyone remembered that the super fast twist rate does not actually mean better expansion.
There are more companies making 8.6 ammo, brass, and rifles now than ever before.
I don't think 3" twist its the way to go or ever needed, and it will never get SAAMI at that twist, but it does help expansion and tissue damage especially at subsonic speeds. It paints a guy into a corner with needing to use specific bullets but that isn't all that bad a problem to have.
>it does help expansion and tissue damage especially at subsonic speeds
can you provide any evidence other than temporary wound cavity found in a slowmo youtube video?
Dang, if only Paul Harrell had been sent a Q Boombox to blast a meat target with before he succumbed to the weakness of his flesh.
Kevin B shot up a bunch of animals in Africa with it as a promo. Obviously it worked fine they all died. Or at least all the ones they showed.
>Or at least all the ones they showed.
yeah
>a slowmo youtube video?
Yeah, there are multiple videos showing it not just the one Q did.
And while I have not shot a ton of animals with 3" twist I have shot loads with 0.308" bullets in twists from 12" to 5", and faster is always better.
Here is Remington saying they see it in testing:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/barrel-twist-rates-can-they-impact-bullet-expansion/
Here is an LRH thread on same:
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/bullet-rpm-and-performance.302403/
People who shoot a lot of bullets into a lot of animals see it all the time.
>muh magic buzzsaw
pathetic
Bullet expansion doesn't matter when trying to kill an animal?
Just use the 458 Socom that already fits on your AR, which doesn't have a moronic twist rate that will shred lead or plated bullets, which has a higher weight maximum, which has a much better bullet selection, and doesn't need le spin damage because it's big bore.
There are no good 0.458" bullets. All their PCs suck ass, and none of them expand well at subsonic velocities.
If a guy doesn't like 3" twist there are plentty of options for 6". The AR10 I have coming is a 6", simply because I don't need 3" for any of the bullets I will shoot.
Besides, 458 SOCOM has shit reliability in an AR15 and cuts mag capacity by more than half. 8.6 is for an AR10 at standard mag cap.
Why would a bullet for subsonic use need a high BC? If I'm gonna shoot over 150yds I'd rather have a lighter bullet with a higher point blank range.
>there are no good 458 bullets
Over a century of development for 45 caliber rifle cartridges disagree
>ballistic coefficient
Doesn't matter, you're shooting subsonic mortars anyway
>don't expand
Don't need to, they're 45 caliber already
>mag capacity
You're not a soldier, you don't need magazine capacity
>reliability
Never heard that
No one has been "developing" 0.458" bullets recently, that is why they all suck. Name one with a good BC.
Which of course matters to people who actually shoot, especially with a speed limit.
And mag capacity not metering is the most hilarious cope I have ever read.
BC for subsonics? We're splitting hairs over this part? Yeah, because having a 350" holdover vs 440" holdover at 500 yards is something anyone will actually do with either cartridge. Lol.
Yes there is a chart in this very thread that shows the advantages of high BC.
If you'd like to do it differently, please extoll the virtues of low BCs.
>1.087 G1 BC
>.552 G7
A long action 458 Socom would be wild with these
Feel free to describe the specifics of the action you'll chamber for that in 458 SOCOM. Be sure to include action length, how you'll have the barrel throated, the powder and charge you'll be using and the seating depth.
>Savage 110 long action
>AICS mags
>460 steyr spec throat
>31gr H335 or something like that
>.74 seating depth, 3.53 COAL
>35,000psi to get 1050 fps with a 10.5" barrel
Now you get to test it. Muzzle velocity, grouping, and Gel block at 100 yds. Post on Youtube for us.
For a dedicated bolt action sub gun, 458 SOCOM would not be a bad choice. Gas gun, obviously no way.
Dunno that there is anything I would shoot with a 458 SOCOM that I wouldn't with an 8.6 BLK, but that is probably also true for a 300 BLK. But the higher BC stuff drifts less and drops less, and at subsonic velocities the recoil isn;t all that different.
I wonder if a 458 bolt would need to be heavier than 8.6? Probably not...
>heavier
he says after picking a large action cartridge with small action capability.
honk
honk
So what small action cartridge has the same capability as 8.6 BLK or 458 SOCOM?
>458 SOCOM
AR-15 cartridges: small
AR-10 cartridges: big
you guys really don't have much rattling around in your skulls, do you?
I don't understand....you are claiming that 458 SOCOM that fits into an AR15 size action has the same capability as 8.6 BLK?
Surely you can't mean that, so please clarify.
>same
458 has more capability per bullet
I assume you mean energy? It doesn't drift less or drop less which is much more important.
Energy is good to have in some instances like barrier penetration, but for hunting doesn't matter much. Bullet construction is a far bigger factor in killing animals and most of the development for that has gone into smaller calibers.
The 458 SOCOM bullets that fit AR15 actions all have ping pong ball BCs and construction wise are basically cast lead poured into a thin copper jacket.
What is a "large action" and a "small action"?
Are those bullets designed to expand at .458 SOCOM velocities at-range? Because if they're not you may as well shoot fmj.
300: 50 CPR
8.6: 2.50 CPR
Both will kill anyways with equal efficacy
Why didn't they call it 330 blackout?
Are they moronic?
Guns are the only realm where the metric system is cool
I hate HATO units so much its unreal.
>rifles
I might get an Encore barrel for it.
Because then people might notice it's just .338 Whisper with some of the answers changed so nobody knows Q copied someone else's homework.
Can't wait for 12.7 Blackout (pictured)
The problem with 338 Whisper/BR/Spectre is that it is proprietary and SSK never published drawings, or took it to any of the certification agencies. That essentially painted it into a corner of always being a wildcat thus a niche chambering.
Also, brass availability for the parent cartridges is shit. 8.6 BLK has always had readily available top quality parent brass, and at this point top quality purpose made brass.
neither because it's hypebeasts dogshit.
post the chart.
this one?
Thanks, that chart does a good job of showing the advantage of 8.6 over the others.
The real value of this chart for the 8.6 BO boys is showing the yuge advantage that 8.6 BO has at the "10 ft. holdover" range. (`430 yards vs. ~425 yards for 300 BO)
Interdasting. thanks.
Verification not required
Cost per round and availability of niche guns I want is one of my highest criteria, so no, 300bo is going nowhere for me in the foreseeable future. And I still think 375raptor would have been a significantly better choice as a "beefier 300bo" 200-300yd subsonic round. But if it gets popular enough to get decently priced and have all the loads I want I'd consider it.
One advantage for 8.6 and 300 going forward: that the massive delay for suppressors seems to have shrunk for good. Not zero but single digit days is now common, which is just mind blowing (my last can took 230 days). That's going to completely change the market dynamics, a lot more people may get interested.
This round looks amazing. I want to build an AR10 pistol chambered in it ASAP as a pure meme.
If it comes cheaper, like PSA makes one yes. All the 8.6 stuff looks really good in general. If I had to outfit a squad I'd wanna give them all AR10s in 8.6 blackout and long range stuff in 8.6 Western.
Both 8.6 blackout and 8.6 Western are pretty cool but both just cost way too much.
anon, it's 6.8 Western, not 8.6
he's just demonstrating the median intelligence of 338 whisper morons.
50 BMG based blackout cartridge when?
510 whisper
just wait, it'll get blacked out, a shill campaign and then suddenly hypetards will care.
>510 whisper
Holly shit I would buy that
No you wouldn't
I would, subsonics capable of reliabily taking big game ar more than 50 yards is what I want.
No I don't buy expensive uncommon calibers. Frick off consoomer shill.
Its simply a half measure when it comes to subsonic terminal performance.
No thanks.
If you need to shoot past 200m you don't need subsonic rounds. 300 BLK is fine for 1-400m. 8.6 seems like a problem to a question no one asked.
Am I the only one here noticing that the text and the images are directly contradicting each other in OP's picrel?
What part? I don't see anything contradictory.
what comblock round is Q mimicking this time?
I don't think he has said that 8.6 came from an ask by the military like 300 BLK did.
The civilian market for this sort of thing is way bigger than it was back then, so I think this time he is trying to make a market there with this thing. As far as the design I think he is just taking a cue from Hornady and applying the same thinking to his niche.
A cue from what Hornady did with the Creedmore cartridges is what I meant.
375 Raptor is better for subsonic
Not in the AR10 platform, its case is too long to seat high BC bullets. GSC and LeHigh and CEB all make some that don't fit.
For a dedicated sub rifle these big cases are pointless. 458 SOCOM got that right, but 8.6 BLK did ok. 375 Raptor is a frickup in that regard.
Whats stopping you from seating the bullet deep into the case?
The ogive?