500 of the mountain with plate armor and long swords ij medieval europe before the crossbow,
How powerful an army like this would be assuming you give them proper training?
500 of the mountain with plate armor and long swords ij medieval europe before the crossbow,
Reasonably powerful until you run out of steroids, supplements and food.
>knees destroyed after a 500km march
They'd very quickly run out of power, as the realities of historical food supplies would mean they wouldn't be able to sustain the calorie surplus and nutrients needed to maintain that physique for long. The reality is most warrior classes were pretty slender, bulk was a rarity; most people who fought for a living did mostly strength training with little bulking of muscle mass.
>bulk was a rarity; most people who fought for a living did mostly strength training with little bulking of muscle mass.
Not in the modern sense but relative to the contemporaneous commoner, they were
Greek and Roman writers describe eating and exercising in ways which would build up muscle mass, although since they had very little sense of nutrition, they only knew that they were "growing stronger" on a very empirical basis
English archers were fricking gorillas and the arms practice of knights and men-at-arms should also have made them quite muscular
Last but not least, bear in mind that people worked with their hands much more in those days and farm labourers especially would be quite strong
Good years there was lots of food bad years not so much.
Here's what someone of works with lifting shit all day looks like provided they get enough food.
This. Greek ideal is achievable natty.
There was an entire class of German mercenaries dedicated to it. They were paid double, hence "doppelsoldner".
They were paid to be the frontline, they lead the charge as shock troops; not to literally break pikes. That's what earned them the double pay, being the front line of guys who ran into the pikewall and tried to push past. There's a lot of treaties of the time period that speak of the ability of a greatsword's ability to threaten a large group of men if you get surrounded, which is what the primary use case of the weapon was.
You don't have to literally break the pikes, you sweep them aside with the sword thus breaking the line. 500 giants in thick plate armor would be ideal for the job.
Doppelsölder were not solely limited to the greatsword. Veterancy and brining your own high quality gear would also classify you as one.
>And if you want some modern day counter-armchairing on top for added flavour then do note that these large two handed swords fell out of use when pikes were ubiquitous on the battlefield, ie when a good anti-pike tool would have been very useful and had every opportunity to shine.
Good observation not especially after the middle/late 16th firearms took over the role of breaking up formations. Greatswords simply lost their niche on the battlefield. Still they were retained for the color guard.
thats not really right, and what the other guy said is half right because it doesnt give you the actual context of these soldiers
from what i understand, a doppelsoldner was someone who came to the enlistenment camp with more equipment than a normal man, as in they were heavily armored or armed, and were compensated double for having this equipment, as if they were renting out their equipment to them to be used in war, except they were also the soldier using them
because of this, they were put at the frontlines, because they were more skilled and were better armed, not because they were hired to risk their lives more than the average guy
when they did dangerous shit, that was because they had the means to
I would assume that many civilizations figured out that eating meat made you bigger and stronger, simply based on observation.
If you were an aristocratic warrior you had all the food you could want
Also aristocrats are highly valued above other soldiers and wear high quality maximum coverage armor.
This favors being lean so armor fits well.
So they might get fat by accident, but it would be cointerproductive to intentionally get bulky with massive curves armor would have to account for. As your weight changed, like during extended campaigns the armor with cease to fit right had it been tailored to fit a bulky muscular physique.
Pagan tribes didnt wear lots of high coverage armor. Becomong a giant muscular guy just meant you were a bigger stronger guy.
So being huge muscular warriors was really a pre christian thing in europe. Once the fuedal system spread from rome and fuedal christian europe dominated, the bulky muscular lightly armored warrior was rare. The class system of the fuedal time worked against it.
>it would be cointerproductive to intentionally get bulky with massive curves armor would have to account for
FETCH THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER!!
Plate armour came around 1000 years after Christianity took over Europe. This post is pseudohistory nonsense.
oh shut the frick up dumass
500 big c**ts eating 1000 mans rations
big deal, bring more wagons
this is a question of combat not logistics anyway
>starves to death in your path
they have a life time supply of natty suplement(tm) and food,
Now 500 of them on meth with trainin against 10000 pikemen
>10,000 pikemen
They die. Unfortunately cutting through pikes with big swords was mostly a heroic act. It probably happened with some very skilled, very strong swordsmen; but not with any regularity. Weapon hafts are fricking thick, strong pieces of wood.
Just grab the pointy sticks bro
цpWhat the frick was his problem?
Got his hose ripped off and 3 BIG AUSTRIAN LANCES in ALL 3 holes at the same time!!! Way up his gullet and Way up His ass as far as they will go but even farther.
Same vibe
>beslan school siege.jpg
I kneel. Your filename beats mine.
Did this homie grabbed everyone's spears?
Can't stab his friends if he confiscates your pointy stick.
The medieval history of the pike starts centuries after the crossbow shows up. It rises into prominency largely hand in hand with firearms. (And do note the "medieval" here and in OP's original post before you start talking about Macedonian phalanxes or the like.)
Not that guns and crossbows were the only relevant missile weapons in medieval Europe.
While that is what the idea is usually dialled down to when the impracticality of cutting pikes is pointed out, it doesn't deal with the more fundamental problem of it being an idea straight from the modern day armchair that despite a lot of people searching specifically for it lacks support by historical evidence. And if you want some modern day counter-armchairing on top for added flavour then do note that these large two handed swords fell out of use when pikes were ubiquitous on the battlefield, ie when a good anti-pike tool would have been very useful and had every opportunity to shine.
Yeah, what sildiers and oeople were told at the time and reality on the actual battlefield were likely as different as they are today. Dopplesoldners may have just been told that to get them on close where they could disturb pike formations and start killing them, before likely being killed in most scenarios as they were overcome or thier arms fatigued.
But even disrupting pike formations for a short time would make the enemy more vulnerable to cavalry.
So what the soldier was told was reality may have been propaganda just like is often the case today.
How many would sign up for double pay if they were told it was typically a sacrificial role that merely allowed cavalry or others to maneuver undisturbed by pikes for awhile. Double pay does you no good if you die. The way they had to fight meant they needed distance from friendly soldiers, so they would always be prone to getting overun.
But a big strong two hander jumping into the enemy pike formations probably made pike soldiers totaly useless for stopping horses, thier main purpose, until the giant guyattacking people with a big sword was dealt with.
Once it had been a tactic used long enough word likely got out that no soldier should volunteer for that role, and hence it became used less often.
Yes but as is the case today aristocrats are iften lazy and prefer the pleasures of life. Being a bodybuilder is hard work, peasant type of work.
Which is probably why that type of thing was more common in the pagan tribes where it wasnt aristocrats that were warriors, who access to large amounts of meat and food in the pre fuedal period rich forests filled with plentiful game of europe.
Germanics, celts, and later vikings all had brawny tough guys with all they could eat.
While the orderly christian kingdoms worked thier normal soldiers hard with meager rations.
Elite land owning warrior societies were a thing in pagan Europe, too
10K pikemen? against 500 (elite) fully armored swordsmen infantry? You wont even need that many pikemen. 2000 is enough. just arm them with a rondel or a warhammer as a side arm. Anyone who can get through the wall of piked without getting their eyes, neck, or armpit stabbed will be grappled by 3 guys and stabbed; in the likely outcome that they charge the phalanx and get their ass knocked down they'll also get stabbed in an unprotected area by a dagger. Eventually, after a long battle, the advantage will go to the pikemen because theyre less overheated and less tired than the massive men fighting in the sun with full steel armor plating
Just eat the local peasants, bro.
Just noticed she could motorboat his pecs without even bending over. Also based on the look on her face the thought has crossed her mind.
Food surpluses existed in the middle ages, the margins were just a lot tighter. For every one of those giants you hired you'd need several families of farmers to support them. That's why knights were given country estates in return for service.
They're the ones producing your food. Eat them now and you have nothing next year.
>They're the ones producing your food
>not taking the steppe nomad pill
lmao@u civilization cucks.
>muh food
Imagine needing fields to survive and choosing to grow fricking turnips with them. "Oh boy I sure hope nobody attacks our defenseless and easily ravaged crucial infrastructure" said every agrarian gay ever.
Meh. Could go either way. On one hand humanity was utterly BTFO'd when nephilim walked the earth. It took acts of God to purge them. On the other, there are some decent advantages to being smaller. There is a reason manlets are so plentiful to this day. Rome showed us that high levels of training could overcome size discrepancy. That being said, watching a horde of big hunky men charging around would be devastating to the normie's morale and manlets would eternally seethe.
Start Hinnommaxxing.
I don’t think it’s feasible even for a superhuman like Halfthor to carry enough armor that can negate the impact of hammers or reliably stop spear thrusts
if yoi trowh enough pesant at tank it will eventualy run out of fuel and ammos,
point is how many pesant for one tank?
>reliably stop spear thrusts
Spears suck against armor.
looks like a fricking homosexual
He’s a very nice guy and holds the world record for the deadlift, and has a hot tiny wife that he sticks his giant wiener into.
You’re the homosexual
I guess she likes them big, the size difference is hilarious, I wonder what their kids will turn out like?
Did you know that Steroids make your testicles shrink and your penis malfunction?
his dick is likely no different than usual, building muscle doesn't build dick mass
He's ridiculously tall, so even if it's just proportional, it should still be bigger than average.
As someone who's a 6'5" mesomorph i can confirm. Always thought my dick was completely normal until i was complimented on its size a couple girls in row.
>>Inb4 talking about penis's is gay.
Don't ruin my fantasy.
>Longsword
Nah, give them pikes. 500 big strong morons would be threatening yeah, but 500 big strong extremely disciplined dudes fighting in formation would be a road roller against peasants.
Also worth noting, as big as Mr. Mountain is, a Cataphract is bigger and faster still. I don't think he could stop a formation of heavy cavalry from running him and his clones over.
Cataphracts are frickin cool. Cool name. Cool stuff. Cool job. They’re just cool. End of story.
>500 big strong extremely disciplined dudes fighting in formation would be a road roller against peasants.
this
a shield wall made of 500 Mountain clone troopers with pikes would be fearsome
>I don't think he could stop a formation of heavy cavalry from running him and his clones over.
unless they have pikes and form square
which is why in antiquity, agricultural surplus usually directly influenced military might (not always)
>digger Black person
and he probably doesn't even eat lots of good-quality protein
he'd be even more jacked if he did
>The speargay rears his ugly head, unable to have a thread of his own.
>*Pokes u from out of your reach*
psshhh nothin bersonell
>t. Killed by a Roman sword
why are swordgays so fragile?
Weren’t the really big guys just for royalty and rich persons’ guards? Seeing an army of Mountains would be super intimidating though.
plate armor is something you give to horsemen and guards that stand a lot
and its still vulnerable to longbow
so nothing gamechanging - at least not on battlefield
in urban area where bows are less efficient they could be pretty fearsome - again until they are winded by 60+ kilograms of full plate armor - most knights could not stand up on their own when they fell to the ground - this only worked on horseback in reality
Knights fighting dismounted in plate armour is not that unheard of. Hell, during the war of the roses, which saw pretty heavy use of the longbow, it was practically THE way men at arms and the knightly classes fought.
wait till you hear that most of the fighting at Agincourt was on foot
What a hilarious collection of fuddlore and memes.
Exquisitely curated
Literal mongoloid idiot
How would a medieval person see someone like picrel? Even recognizable as a human being?
>Damn that's a big dude
>I hope the king sees me when I kill him
>Maybe he'll knight me or some shit
Isn't Darkshine like the size of a truck?
>Darkshine the size of a truck?
He is. Interesting he used to be an especially scrawny Japanese kid. But, in that universe, if you get into something enough and devote yourself to that that enough you transform into that thing. So Darkshine muscle trained so much that he eventually turned black. Lol.
Japs are so gay
>before the crossbow
Crossbows are older than you think and they were always shit against plate armor anyway.
Dumb gay.
crossbows ending the era of plate armour/kinghts is some kind of esoteric /k/ meme
Resident early gunpowder autist here. It was definitely guns, not crossbows, that slowly made armor obsolete. Guns came in the 1300s, crossbows had been around in one form or another since the ancient Greeks (400BC?).
Yeap the oldest evidence we have that are functionally identical to modern ones are from more like 500AD.
Of course, but it's a pervasive meme, like ironic medieval fuddlore
Too high of calorie requirements.
Only good for defense or bodyguards for a reason.
In real life kings sometimes had super soldiers armed with two handers that often fought to the death to protect the king or allow them to retreat. They stayed in the castle where food was plentiful and didnt get sent to far off places.
There is some tales of them in both europe and asia holding off huge numbers of men before usualy dying.
Similar to the giant berserker that held off the entire english force of thousands of men on a bridge chokepoint letting his people escape in the delay, before they went below him and stabbed up at him through the bridge.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stamford_Bridge
Becoming monster bodybuilder soldiers was a known thing in both some germanic and celtic tribes.
Often they wore light or no armor reducing the weight and calorie requirements of all that muscle and giving them less encumbered movement.
The romans remarked on it, how some were massive and fearsome, but relied too much on individual heroics and thus could be defeated by very dedicated ranks of formation fighters. But would destroy any typical soldier otherwise.
Some vikings, celts, germanics, and picts did this.
Even the Irish were said to be massive and able to take on 4 english men at a time before being starved, malnurished, and shrunk over hundreds of years under english rule.
It was a known type of lifestyle and warrior, often in the rich forests full of game ore fuedal times and removal of most forests, among some of the tribes during and before roman times.
Most of western europe, and ireland were covered in dense forests until the late fuedal period when they clear cut it all for crops, leaving only pockets for aristocratic hunting.
Christians also destroyed the nicest groves, forests, and mighty trees because they were often sacred to the pagans and dedicated to a diety as the best examples of thier kind.
Europe was once a beautiful wilderness filled with lots if animals, bears, wolves, aurochs, even lions, various herbivores etc
So giant well fed bodybuilder warriors were a thing in some of the cultures.
Sone of the last places with such types were nordic lands, being the most distant from the christianized empires and kingdoms that stamped out such things.
Most such specimens were killed by organized armies in the fuedal period, and remnants of giant genetics killed during napoleons time as grenadiers and disposable shock troops. Being huge meant you got used till you died often in the most dangerous parts of a battlefield.
However as some of the furthest and last pagans some norse, including germanic (likely oncludong some of the pagans that fled north as christianity took over europe) and scand lineages still retained this, which is the people the mountain is from on the island of Iceland descended from vikings where bodybuilding is a past time of a significant portion of the population. Iceland outside the reach of Napoleonic wars retained the disposable shock trooper giant berserker genetics.
>We wuz bodybuilder n shiet
Do you mean the mountain, a fantasy warrior who can smash a man's skull with his bare hands (impossible) or do you mean a realistic man of that size and build (like the actor)?
Because of fantasy writers not understanding what separates "strong" and "superhuman", someone who can do the things Gregor does in the book/show would be much stronger than any real world body builder.
Hey, autist, he obviously means suspend your disbelief and pretend Gregor Clegane (book version) was real and had 500 clones and were equipped with modern steel armor and weaponry. Also for the hypothetical, nutritional resources are infinite. Personally I don't see anything stopping them. They wouldn't be alone in any major theater of war either, they'd just be the elite infantry. If they were to garrison a keep, it would be impossible to take imo. Swinging a 7' sword at a bunch of malnourished peasants or overconfident Manley knights while kitted up with XXXXL CPM steel plate, yeah its fricking over GGqq
>Hey, autist, he obviously means suspend your disbelief
Look homosexual, I asked him a simple question and made clear why I was asking it.
>If they were to garrison a keep, it would be impossible to take imo
Obviously if they have infinite food hacks you mong.
Yeah but what's been left out was the drugs. Meth is one hell of a drug. Are we talking a day of usage or a year? How long have they been up? Three days? Four? Teeth still in? Big questions.
I feel like a man who is as large as Gregor - who is himself over a foot taller than Hafthor - would arguably be stronger than nearly any human to ever exist, considering he would have a height and weight closer to a grizzly bear or siberian tiger than any man.
Robert Wadlow, the tallest man to ever exist, was terrifically strong even in spite of his skinny physique. A slightly shorter man with a far greater muscle mass would be terrifying to witness.
Nah i d say Haftor wins
>Angus MacAskill (1825 – 8 August 1863) was a Scottish-born Canadian giant. In its 1981 edition the Guinness Book of World Records stated he was the strongest man, the tallest non-pathological giant and the largest true giant in recorded history at 7 feet 9 inches (2.36 m), he also had the largest chest measurements of any non-obese man at 80 inches (203 cm). MacAskill was said to have accomplished feats of lifting a 2,800 lb (1,270 kg) ship's anchor to his chest and holding over 250 pounds (113 kg) with only three fingers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_MacAskill
>smash a man's skull with his bare hand
a man's? No. A boy's? maybe
>a man's? No. A boy's? maybe
But didn't he smash a full grown man's skull?
One dork with a rechargeable drone would do a lot more
To start with, 250 of them will shit themselves to death outside of combat.
>plate armor
>before the crossbow
Being on a huge, powerful horse is basically like being a huge, powerful man but beyond the real life limits of human strength and size + fast and mobile.
Agincourt was literally the perfect example as to how big dudes in armor can still be easily defeated. Maybe against peasant leavies they would be formidable, but professional forces could still deal with them with the right tactics.
Agincourt was a strategic victory before it was a tactical one. The French lost that battle because they chose to fight it in the first place.
>it'll work if the weather is perfect, we're in the right place and everything works out
That's the mark of something which isn't meta. Contrast with the subsequent Battle of Patay where 200 French knights slaughtered thousands of English longbowmen.
>easily defeated
Anon it was literally a one in a million situation.
The knights were stuck in a bog, downhill, and the archers literally emptied their supply of arrows into them and they still had to move into Melee to score 90% of the casualties they did.
The real advantage to this wouldn’t be his size. I assume he’s a pretty smart, educated man, in addition to being fit and huge. This makes him human capital superior to almost all officers and troops from medieval history.
500 of this guy could be split into small groups of 3-4 and could be reliably expected to operate independently yet in keeping with a tactical goal.
They would swarm and dismantle any documented medieval army by sheer ability to maneuver and advance under pressure, and thanks to the quality of mid level leadership and of course the physical aspect they’d break any enemy formation in minutes and rout the enemy.
t. historical military theory gay
Didn't he get bumped off the horse by a homosexual? He's so fricking heavy he can't joust.
ser homosexual used a mare in heat so the Mountain's stallion got frisky and threw off his aim
Crossbows existed long before plate armor came into being. And they don't have some sort of inherent armor piercing bonus.
And have fun feeding them.
>500 of the mountain
what does this mean?
Based on the picture I think they mean the GoT show version of The Mountain that Rides where he's played by a 6'8 bodybuilder. They could also mean the book version where he's something like 8 and a half feet tall.
They would be shit.
He dies to any pointy bit like anyone else would.
You will still need auxiliaries to round out your numbers.
OP didn't precise that in GoT's universe, The Mountain is defined by Bronn as incredibly fast and agile despite his weight. Bronn fear that, in case of trial by combat, he will not be able to make him exhaust in time to beat him, this is why he refuse to fight him.
We dont know how fast that actually means.
It could have just been Bronn dispelling the notion that big men are slow up close, which most people think but is generally wrong.
Cavalry will frick them up.
The Gauls tried this. The smaller Italians still won.
Actually they sacked rome first, could have slaughtered thier society, but then just went home instead.
The romans were not as nice to them when they invaded later, and the celt homeland was kept weak under permanent roman rule, resulting in muslim moors being able to conquer it.
Thee cuck doth hovereth thine hand before thy fair maiden
If someone disemboweled you and pulled your intestines out of your body and then stabbed them. Would you feel the sensation outside of your body or inside of it where the intensities would have originally resided? Can you feel sensation “outside” of yourself?
Id disembowel her with my penis if you know what I mean
I don't think you have nerves for pain in your intestines.
I mean they would have some sort of sensation to them if someone were handling them while you were conscious though right? This has been bugging me and I’m gunna find out one way or another.
maybe some kind of sensation but it's been commonly said that you don't feel pain per se because they lack pain receptors
if you think about it, this is true to the extent that you can feel gastric pain, your anus and rectum obviously feels pain, but do you feel the contents of your intestines as they transit these two organs? No, you don't.
So the real question is whether your asstestine feels pain where it's supposed to be or where it is.
I would think the latter, your brain has a sort of understanding of the relative positions of your nerves. It might be difficult to tell tho cause there would also be a hole where your rectum is supposed to be and I bet that burns like a b***h.
My mom once told me that she felt sort of queasy during her c-section and looked down to see the doctor holding her stomach. I think your brain just assumes that your organs are where they're supposed to be.
doesn't count, she's being sedated
The intestine walls do have nerves.
As I well know after having had e-coli.
They'd probably be mercenaries.
Be some foreign royals body guards or what ever.
>before the crossbow
Which was known by the Greeks?
Anyone who's watched roided out freaks in boxing and MMA knows they have frickall endurance. Guys like this would probably be gassed before the fight even starts.
500 just doesn't seem like enough dudes. Seems like a large garrison.
Depends on clan affiliation, he survives a barfight clan member dies it's reason to escalate to a siege but if he's gonna be a b***h during the fight and not scale a wall breach you lose and you both work for the same side that you got a blood feud with you get exiled when they call a hault to it since you both have to produce men for them at the end of the day and nothing changed other than a feud that reduced man power. Field battle he doesn't outweight a horse and lance, sure he'll be angry if he survives assuming someone doesn't shoot him first. They made guys like that a personal body guard, maybe give em a big axe. Don't mean a hole lot if a bunch of people laugh stabbing them to death while they're helpless to make it stop.
a manlet chad would exploit the gaps in his armor. he's too slow.
Those gaps would be covered by chain armor.
Give them poleaxes instead. Make sure to have siege engineers as well, Mantlets would be a must to protect from longbowmen.
Medieval europe was ruled by heavy cavalry. That's why the franks and then the kingdom of France pretty much steamrolled everyone (including the first crusade) up to the HYW. Only when artillery by the end of the HYW really started to mix things up and make infantry more important.
It would be a pretty good advantage if you had freakishly strong horses to carry them.
I wonder what she was thinking when he put his arm around her.
You know exactly what she was thinking.
You'd never feed 500 giants in one place without agriculture and roads. You'd have to spread them all out in small groups so each has enough grazing land for his livestock.
>You'd have to spread them all out in small groups so each has enough grazing land for his livestock.
whoa gosh anon no way, wow if only there were an endless see of grass spanning 5000 miles you could graze cattle on.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about. You'd have to spread them out over 5000 miles. If you brought them together for a military campaign you'd have to keep moving extremely quickly just to loot enough food to keep feeding them all.
You can get around this by making the people you conquer into permanent vassals and demanding food as tribute, which takes us right back to the "you need peasants" scenario.
No you wouldn't.
>moron berrypicker doesn't understand pastoralism
wow big shock, enjoy your turnips and your wife getting raped
>lots of giants all in one place
>???
>food appears
>moron berrypicker is an unironic peasant who cannot read to learn about the concepts he does not understand
many such cases. Enjoy serfdom lol
Still no explanation of where food comes from.
Technically correct. You could overcome any plate armor if your crossbow were big enough.
>Still no explanation of where food comes from.
Cows anon. All steppe nomads were pastoralists. They can bring their food with them. It walks. It can eat your fields in fact.
It was not impossible to feed a very small army in the past, what's more the OP specifically handwaved their supply issues, he only wanted a tactical appraisal of how they perform in battle.
A small army of normal men, not a small army of giants. Bigger armies (or bigger men) would require a baggage train to supply them.
Tactically they're vulnerable to cavalry if OP gives them longswords. He'd be better off giving them pikes. Their massive strength would then be more of an advantage as they can carry a longer pike with a heavier counterweight.
Black person it's five hundred of them, that's a very very very very small army. That's nothing.
Not if you're trying the self-sufficient nomad thing (the thing I was actually responding to). You need agriculture and baggage trains.
There's a reason people have historically used scorched earth as a strategy against nomads. They can't reach you if there's no food to plunder along the way.
Nomadic forces fifty times that size existed, no body builder eats as much as fifty men.
Existing is not the same as being an effective force. What do you plan to do with them your enemies pursue a scorched earth strategy?
almost no one ITT has any idea what actual combat was like in the past, lol. the average horse weighs more than the tallest man ever could, and are more versatile. very large men are worthless in combat, after all the variables are taken into consideration.
do they have horses and knight training?
if no:
literally wasted flesh
if yes:
possibly one of the most destrutive calvary forces of it's period.
as crusadeanon demonstrated however, it means jack shit if you commander can't properly use you.