this is why I use a 5.7 handgun in my dream, it takes five or six shots to put somebody down but I lose track of my roundcount before bottoming out the 23 round magazine so I literally can't run out of ammo because I can't remember
it's based
why tf do gun owners get into this hobby just to cheap out where it maters?
if you can't afford gas, don't drive. if you can't afford the ammo, don't shoot. get your life together first.
It's not expensive because it's high quality or good, it's expensive because it's bottlenecked.
It's also shit out of a pistol because it's bottlenecked. If it was straight-walled and fired a .264 projectile it would have far more energy at the distances which matter for pistols.
>As fast as the fastest baby size tiny rounds >Still mid size mass >Better than all the gay hand cannon rounds in both effect and recoil and capacity >Fricks armor >Fricks any animal that walks the earth >Demands that you open carry like a man
9x25 is god's cartridge
>that barrel
School me on 9x25. Iirc 10mm doesn’t gain much past about a 6” barrel. Does 9x25? And how on earth do you carry and draw something with a barrel that long without bringing your hand all the way to your nipple? Assuming strong side carry
>School me on 9x25. Iirc 10mm doesn’t gain much past about a 6” barrel. Does 9x25?
Here's a rule for comparing all cartridges, similar or not, to each other; increasing the bore, or shrinking the powder supply, decreases the barrel length at which the bullet stops gaining energy.
So yes, 9x25 will have a longer optimal barrel length simply because the same powder supply is being burned in a barrel which has less volume for it's length, in the case of 9x25 vs 10mm the ratio is 1:1.27.
There are other inefficiencies and powder burn rate variables so the ideal barrel length probably won't reflect that ratio perfectly.
As another anon said, smaller diameter with similar powder charge requires a longer barrel generally.
As for draw, compare the overall length, not barrel length, to various full size revolvers, the guns that invented fast drawing.
Police use green tip, not blue tip, so no wonder they shoot at the same guy 20 times with non expanding fmj and wonder why he's still alive. I'd take a full auto p90 with blue tip
Boy, you're on a roll. Why you pimpin' dis b***h all over town? Low self-esteem or insecurity? For those who have it, it's between .22WRM and .22 Hornet. For those that don't have it, it is a scourge of the earth that feeds thier rreeee screeching. If you want it, get it. If you hate it, get perpective, find God, work on suppressing your ego and learn to love all guns and ammo.
>You have to mag dump or get a headshot if you want to stop a threat
This is true of all pistol rounds. You either hit a vital and they die quickly or you don't and they bleed out slowly.
You lose more blood from a 9mm hole than a 5.7mm hole, nevermind expansion, see pic, both rounds JHP and guess which one left no cavity? That's nothing to say of the XTP ammo getting all the hype lately.
If you take an entry wound at face value of the diameter of the bullet (double for exit wound too) then you get this: >5.7: 25.5sq. mm area >9mm: 63.75sq. mm area
9mm is almost three times the area, I don't see why you wouldn't:
A. bleed out thrice as fast
B. have that much greater (little as it is) chance of hitting something vital such as the heart, causing exsanguination faster
>correction, not XTP, I meant the Xtreme Defender Phillips head rounds from Underwood
Then there's the guns themselves, see picrel, Beretta 92FS vs S&W 5.7
I think it's a fair comparison since the S&W seems to be a well regarded 5.7 but is shorter than the Ruger or FN offerings while maintaining higher capacity and the 92 is a common handgun of similar size, albeit the Beretta weighs 6.6oz more due to it's aluminum frame (vs. S&W's polymer) however boasts reliable 18rd flush-fit mags. Otherwise pick your favorite full size handgun a la Glock, M&P, P320, etc. that is similar size but 17rds.
However the 5.7 is 22+1 vs 92 being 18+1. So is the extra four rounds worth the trade-off? If we go back to the sq.mm idea then no way:
That's a delta of 624.51sq.mm for whatever it's worth. Or to put it another way, you could shoot nine 9mm rounds and have the same sq.mm area as all 23 5.7mm rounds, if this is the Beretta we still have 10 more rounds to go if we started with a full mag and one in the pipe.
All that and a shooter needs to consider cost. While I think it's nonsensical to consider cost when it comes to the gun and ammo you carry it's practical to consider cost when practicing. 5.7 is obviously quite a bit more than 9mm.
The cheapest shit (and I do mean shit) on Ammoseek for 9mm is 16cpr, for 5.7 it's 36.9cpr... to be fair the 5.7 is Fiocchi and the 9 is reman dogshit but the cheapest reputable, new round is PMC 9mm at only 19.4cpr... man I need to buy ammo it's gone down...
The point being that 5.7 is gonna be about twice as much, and by any objective and anecdotal data you'll need to practice more with it.
You lose more blood from a 9mm hole than a 5.7mm hole, nevermind expansion, see pic, both rounds JHP and guess which one left no cavity? That's nothing to say of the XTP ammo getting all the hype lately.
If you take an entry wound at face value of the diameter of the bullet (double for exit wound too) then you get this: >5.7: 25.5sq. mm area >9mm: 63.75sq. mm area
9mm is almost three times the area, I don't see why you wouldn't:
A. bleed out thrice as fast
B. have that much greater (little as it is) chance of hitting something vital such as the heart, causing exsanguination faster
>many small holes have an infinitely greater surface area than one big hole
No shit, but if you have to pull the trigger ten times to stop a threat wouldn't you want those ten times to be more effective for every single round?
Otherwise STFU and go find a 22LR you can carry your argument is moronic.
The only time multiple small holes matter is when it's a volley, they become more effective. For instance a 9 pellet 00 buck 2-3/4" 1300FPS shell is going to be similar in speed and weight to shooting a 32ACP 9 times, but the energy of those rounds is delivered simultaneously which has an exponential effect on the target than having those 9 rounds impact over time.
I know that I can pull my 5.7 trigger ten times faster than I can pull the trigger of my more powerful rounds and I will be more accurate with it with less training
using the minimum viable round for your target penetration is one way to optimize for self defense
anyway it would be a lot better if I had a giggle switch, but we don't live in that timeline yet
my EDC is .357 mag btw, I don't expect to ever have to use any of these so it's all just stupid games
so what you're saying is we should use either 5.7 for max capacity or .45 for maximum bleeding, and that 9mm is a cope and a compromise
By this logic yes, and by historical precedent a larger caliber has proven to be more effective, namely when it came to 45-70 and 45 Auto specifically in the Philippine-American war. That's with ball ammunition only and 9mm JHP expansion is very close to 45 Auto JHP expansion but offers a much better capacity. It's always an argument over effectiveness and capacity and 9mm offers a very strong case against anything.
>but the military isn't using 45
Yeah cause NATO standards make more sense to abide by than sticking with 45 like we did until 1985 anyway and nobody cares about handguns anyway except police and civilians for the most part.
5.7mm has poor JHP expansion at short distances, and even when it does expand it's still shitty anyway comparative to 9mm.
If we want a new pistol round 30SC would be the way to go but that probably ain't gonna happen from the look of things.
>By this logic yes, and by historical precedent a larger caliber has proven to be more effective, namely when it came to 45-70 and 45 Auto specifically in the Philippine-American war.
Ah, my favorite kind of proof, the same kind of war stories that said .30 carbine couldn't penetrate winter coats.
>the same kind of war stories that said .30 carbine couldn't penetrate winter coats.
Notice how none of the GIs who pushed this bullshit spent their free time in the dead of the Korean winter playing airsoft with M1 carbines. That being said there was a problem with the propellant underperforming in cold weather (which the manufacturer warned the army about and was promptly ignored, starting a trend they would repeat with the M-16).
What did you think of the ruger 57, i was planning on buying it but now that you said that i wont, since the ammo is shit.
The 5.7 pistol to buy is the S&W, every reviewer has said pretty much that.
This will never happen because FN doesn't allow Fiocchi, Federal, and Speer (all owned by the same parent company) to sell armor-piercing 5.7x28 ammo over the counter to the general public due to the Five-seveN pistol being imported from Belgium under the "target shooting" premise and the fact that a major stink was raised by anti-gun politicians and law enforcement groups about it being a "cop killer pistol" back in the 1990's. The Speer Gold Dots were nerfed because they had too much velocity and could penetrate level 2, but those are probably the "best" OEM defensive rounds we have at the moment. The only good defensive 5.7 ammo is grey market SS190 or those boutique copper meme dragon fang bullets that FN doesn't want you to know about, because those are the only things that actually penetrate substantially. Any other ammo you can buy normally at your local gun store or wherever is for recreational use and varmint hunting only.
>5.7 is very lethal because X people died
You can kill an elephant with a .22, doesn't make it a good defense cartridge >5.7 is "a real stopper"
Hollow and meaningless term >5.7 can fragment which causes severe internal damage
Fragmenting rounds are generally worse because they don't penetrate adequately, 5.7 hollow points are no exception >he guesses 5.7 shattered bones
Guesses aren't proof of anything >there was lots of blood therefore the 5.7 is very effective
Every bullet wound bleeds, not an argument >100% fatality for COM shots
Small sample size, and not an argument. A .22 will also kill you, eventually. What we care about is how long it'll take. >5.7 is a "very incapacitating round"
Hollow and meaningless term >fragmentation=blood loss
Penetrating far enough to destroy vital organs and arteries causes more blood loss than underpenetrating with a fragmenting bullet. >as effective as any other pistols
No proof of this is provided. Again, a .22 can kill people too, mass shooters have used .22s to great effect, that doesn't prove shit. Terminal ballistics is a science, it doesn't rely on anecdotes.
I wrote this a little too quickly. Obviously effective rounds need to incapacitate, but this is rarely done by breaking bones. Almost any bullet will break bones, so this isn't proof of its effectiveness. Bone penetration isn't tested very often, but here's a study done using light .38s against thick cow skulls. They penetrated every time.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10014789/
Here's a good rundown on terminal ballistics if you're interested
>Terminal ballistics is a science
Not a very thorough science. All we really get from the most extensive testing is "yeah that'll hit something important". There's very little in the way of "this will drop someone much faster every single time" even though we know those differences exist.
>All we really get from the most extensive testing is "yeah that'll hit something important".
Just because we don't know exactly how an individual will react to being shot doesn't mean wound ballistics can't improve bullets, and guns, and training to be more effective in general. Gel testing revolutionized bullet design, for example.
All 11 people shot center of mass died because they couldn't be removed from the area quickly enough to save them, same thing would have happened with 22lr. All people shot in flesh areas did not die, indicating the round is as mediocre as any other pistol round at producing better effects than holes. In short, 5.7 is a meme you buy if you want to shoot through plates.
>5.7 is a meme you buy if you want to shoot through plates.
More like shooting through substandard Kevlar. Even lv3 stops the "AP" stuff when shot out of a pistol.
Non AP copper solids punch straight through level iiia panels, nothing "substandard" about it.
It won't go though plates, but don't use these meaningless weasel words to try to distort the truth.
I've had 5.7 ammunition separate in the bore with case neck separation in the bore multiple times with multiple brands, including Speer Gold Dot. This has caused severe stoppages every time. I would never trust my life with it because of this. I asked Ruger about this and they said it was normal for 5.7 ammo.
I loved the Ruger 57. Great quality firearm. You would not be disappointed by that. Great sights and feel too. Perhaps you could find a way around the ammo issue but Fiocchi Range Dynamics, Speer Gold Dot and I think American eagle I all had case neck separation failures with. Which would have gotten you killed, potentially. Quite a shame.
I guess if I buy it then I will only use FN brand ammo, thanks for the information, I really like the gun itself since it looks so cool and holes 20 rounds.
cost of ammo
fud
From first hand experience, from a glock 21, it takes 2 flat nose 230gr fmj bullets to the chest to immediately kill a 6ft3 grown man.
Source, my dreams
this is why I use a 5.7 handgun in my dream, it takes five or six shots to put somebody down but I lose track of my roundcount before bottoming out the 23 round magazine so I literally can't run out of ammo because I can't remember
it's based
why tf do gun owners get into this hobby just to cheap out where it maters?
if you can't afford gas, don't drive. if you can't afford the ammo, don't shoot. get your life together first.
It's not expensive because it's high quality or good, it's expensive because it's bottlenecked.
It's also shit out of a pistol because it's bottlenecked. If it was straight-walled and fired a .264 projectile it would have far more energy at the distances which matter for pistols.
>t. Fudd plinkerist
Stop being poor. People like you kept legacy soviet arsenals in business during the 'peace dividend'.
>People like you kept legacy soviet arsenals in business
Is that supposed to be bad?
No one uses 5.7 because if they're carrying a handgun for self defense, they're presumably trying not to get robbed.
Why don't police carry it? Are the departments too poor?
Yes.
Kneel.
No dipshit. You've managed to out meme the meme round
>As fast as the fastest baby size tiny rounds
>Still mid size mass
>Better than all the gay hand cannon rounds in both effect and recoil and capacity
>Fricks armor
>Fricks any animal that walks the earth
>Demands that you open carry like a man
9x25 is god's cartridge
Which barrel is that? Didn't think they made anything like that for the 40
Not for 10mm, companies will occasionally produce small batches of 9x25 super-long pistol barrels for those that walk the true path.
I wouldnt be so sure...lone wolf makes/made a 9in barrel for the g40.
Shit, didn't look close enough at the boxes. Thank anyway
I need to build one of these for a perfect pair with my 9x25 ar
gas operated? noice.
>that barrel
School me on 9x25. Iirc 10mm doesn’t gain much past about a 6” barrel. Does 9x25? And how on earth do you carry and draw something with a barrel that long without bringing your hand all the way to your nipple? Assuming strong side carry
>School me on 9x25. Iirc 10mm doesn’t gain much past about a 6” barrel. Does 9x25?
Here's a rule for comparing all cartridges, similar or not, to each other; increasing the bore, or shrinking the powder supply, decreases the barrel length at which the bullet stops gaining energy.
So yes, 9x25 will have a longer optimal barrel length simply because the same powder supply is being burned in a barrel which has less volume for it's length, in the case of 9x25 vs 10mm the ratio is 1:1.27.
There are other inefficiencies and powder burn rate variables so the ideal barrel length probably won't reflect that ratio perfectly.
As another anon said, smaller diameter with similar powder charge requires a longer barrel generally.
As for draw, compare the overall length, not barrel length, to various full size revolvers, the guns that invented fast drawing.
The truth, in the end, is that everything works great.
>if you shoot someone and hit a vital organ with this, they will die.
WOW!!!!!!
How is life when you're this stupid and go through it like a child?
The real question is why do we let muslims in the military?
>muh interpreters
If we just shoot everyone who doesn't speak English, we wouldn't have to worry about interpreters.
At least make 100% segregated muslim units for suicide missions. It's what they're best at.
if its so superior why don't you own one?
You are a sick bastard. Thanks!
cuz 22WMR sucks
If 5.7 works so great, then why did so many police departments that adopted P90's get rid of them?
Why do police departments need military grade full auto assault machine guns again?
Like who
>police departments
>P90s
Lul wut. Why would a police department want a compact SMG in the first place?
Police use green tip, not blue tip, so no wonder they shoot at the same guy 20 times with non expanding fmj and wonder why he's still alive. I'd take a full auto p90 with blue tip
Boy, you're on a roll. Why you pimpin' dis b***h all over town? Low self-esteem or insecurity? For those who have it, it's between .22WRM and .22 Hornet. For those that don't have it, it is a scourge of the earth that feeds thier rreeee screeching. If you want it, get it. If you hate it, get perpective, find God, work on suppressing your ego and learn to love all guns and ammo.
Here's another take. From this and OP's pic we could draw the conclusion that 5.7 is deadly but not quick.
>tl;dr
You have to mag dump or get a headshot if you want to stop a threat
>You have to mag dump or get a headshot if you want to stop a threat
This is true of all pistol rounds. You either hit a vital and they die quickly or you don't and they bleed out slowly.
>correction, not XTP, I meant the Xtreme Defender Phillips head rounds from Underwood
Then there's the guns themselves, see picrel, Beretta 92FS vs S&W 5.7
I think it's a fair comparison since the S&W seems to be a well regarded 5.7 but is shorter than the Ruger or FN offerings while maintaining higher capacity and the 92 is a common handgun of similar size, albeit the Beretta weighs 6.6oz more due to it's aluminum frame (vs. S&W's polymer) however boasts reliable 18rd flush-fit mags. Otherwise pick your favorite full size handgun a la Glock, M&P, P320, etc. that is similar size but 17rds.
However the 5.7 is 22+1 vs 92 being 18+1. So is the extra four rounds worth the trade-off? If we go back to the sq.mm idea then no way:
>5.7, 23rds: 586.9sq.mm
>9mm, 19rds: 1,211.42sq.mm
That's a delta of 624.51sq.mm for whatever it's worth. Or to put it another way, you could shoot nine 9mm rounds and have the same sq.mm area as all 23 5.7mm rounds, if this is the Beretta we still have 10 more rounds to go if we started with a full mag and one in the pipe.
All that and a shooter needs to consider cost. While I think it's nonsensical to consider cost when it comes to the gun and ammo you carry it's practical to consider cost when practicing. 5.7 is obviously quite a bit more than 9mm.
The cheapest shit (and I do mean shit) on Ammoseek for 9mm is 16cpr, for 5.7 it's 36.9cpr... to be fair the 5.7 is Fiocchi and the 9 is reman dogshit but the cheapest reputable, new round is PMC 9mm at only 19.4cpr... man I need to buy ammo it's gone down...
The point being that 5.7 is gonna be about twice as much, and by any objective and anecdotal data you'll need to practice more with it.
Yes, things only die when they lose enough blood.
You lose more blood from a 9mm hole than a 5.7mm hole, nevermind expansion, see pic, both rounds JHP and guess which one left no cavity? That's nothing to say of the XTP ammo getting all the hype lately.
If you take an entry wound at face value of the diameter of the bullet (double for exit wound too) then you get this:
>5.7: 25.5sq. mm area
>9mm: 63.75sq. mm area
9mm is almost three times the area, I don't see why you wouldn't:
A. bleed out thrice as fast
B. have that much greater (little as it is) chance of hitting something vital such as the heart, causing exsanguination faster
many small holes have an infinitely greater surface area than one big hole
>many small holes have an infinitely greater surface area than one big hole
No shit, but if you have to pull the trigger ten times to stop a threat wouldn't you want those ten times to be more effective for every single round?
Otherwise STFU and go find a 22LR you can carry your argument is moronic.
The only time multiple small holes matter is when it's a volley, they become more effective. For instance a 9 pellet 00 buck 2-3/4" 1300FPS shell is going to be similar in speed and weight to shooting a 32ACP 9 times, but the energy of those rounds is delivered simultaneously which has an exponential effect on the target than having those 9 rounds impact over time.
I know that I can pull my 5.7 trigger ten times faster than I can pull the trigger of my more powerful rounds and I will be more accurate with it with less training
using the minimum viable round for your target penetration is one way to optimize for self defense
anyway it would be a lot better if I had a giggle switch, but we don't live in that timeline yet
my EDC is .357 mag btw, I don't expect to ever have to use any of these so it's all just stupid games
so what you're saying is we should use either 5.7 for max capacity or .45 for maximum bleeding, and that 9mm is a cope and a compromise
By this logic we should be shooting .50 GI or .50 AE
By this logic yes, and by historical precedent a larger caliber has proven to be more effective, namely when it came to 45-70 and 45 Auto specifically in the Philippine-American war. That's with ball ammunition only and 9mm JHP expansion is very close to 45 Auto JHP expansion but offers a much better capacity. It's always an argument over effectiveness and capacity and 9mm offers a very strong case against anything.
>but the military isn't using 45
Yeah cause NATO standards make more sense to abide by than sticking with 45 like we did until 1985 anyway and nobody cares about handguns anyway except police and civilians for the most part.
5.7mm has poor JHP expansion at short distances, and even when it does expand it's still shitty anyway comparative to 9mm.
If we want a new pistol round 30SC would be the way to go but that probably ain't gonna happen from the look of things.
>By this logic yes, and by historical precedent a larger caliber has proven to be more effective, namely when it came to 45-70 and 45 Auto specifically in the Philippine-American war.
Ah, my favorite kind of proof, the same kind of war stories that said .30 carbine couldn't penetrate winter coats.
>the same kind of war stories that said .30 carbine couldn't penetrate winter coats.
Notice how none of the GIs who pushed this bullshit spent their free time in the dead of the Korean winter playing airsoft with M1 carbines. That being said there was a problem with the propellant underperforming in cold weather (which the manufacturer warned the army about and was promptly ignored, starting a trend they would repeat with the M-16).
The 5.7 pistol to buy is the S&W, every reviewer has said pretty much that.
>This blue tip stuff works great, so why don't more people use it?
Because the non-blue tip works, too.
I like the 5.7 blue tip solely because it’s what waka flocka brought into an airport. Based.
what kind of moron runs mixed ammo in their mags
Me, i did that for years
okay but do you mix american eagle underloaded training ammo and blue tips?
I wish there were better defensive ammo choices for 5.7.
This will never happen because FN doesn't allow Fiocchi, Federal, and Speer (all owned by the same parent company) to sell armor-piercing 5.7x28 ammo over the counter to the general public due to the Five-seveN pistol being imported from Belgium under the "target shooting" premise and the fact that a major stink was raised by anti-gun politicians and law enforcement groups about it being a "cop killer pistol" back in the 1990's. The Speer Gold Dots were nerfed because they had too much velocity and could penetrate level 2, but those are probably the "best" OEM defensive rounds we have at the moment. The only good defensive 5.7 ammo is grey market SS190 or those boutique copper meme dragon fang bullets that FN doesn't want you to know about, because those are the only things that actually penetrate substantially. Any other ammo you can buy normally at your local gun store or wherever is for recreational use and varmint hunting only.
Does anyone even use level 2 anymore? I thought most people switched to level 3 as standard
>5.7 is very lethal because X people died
You can kill an elephant with a .22, doesn't make it a good defense cartridge
>5.7 is "a real stopper"
Hollow and meaningless term
>5.7 can fragment which causes severe internal damage
Fragmenting rounds are generally worse because they don't penetrate adequately, 5.7 hollow points are no exception
>he guesses 5.7 shattered bones
Guesses aren't proof of anything
>there was lots of blood therefore the 5.7 is very effective
Every bullet wound bleeds, not an argument
>100% fatality for COM shots
Small sample size, and not an argument. A .22 will also kill you, eventually. What we care about is how long it'll take.
>5.7 is a "very incapacitating round"
Hollow and meaningless term
>fragmentation=blood loss
Penetrating far enough to destroy vital organs and arteries causes more blood loss than underpenetrating with a fragmenting bullet.
>as effective as any other pistols
No proof of this is provided. Again, a .22 can kill people too, mass shooters have used .22s to great effect, that doesn't prove shit. Terminal ballistics is a science, it doesn't rely on anecdotes.
I wrote this a little too quickly. Obviously effective rounds need to incapacitate, but this is rarely done by breaking bones. Almost any bullet will break bones, so this isn't proof of its effectiveness. Bone penetration isn't tested very often, but here's a study done using light .38s against thick cow skulls. They penetrated every time.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10014789/
Here's a good rundown on terminal ballistics if you're interested
.be
>Terminal ballistics is a science
Not a very thorough science. All we really get from the most extensive testing is "yeah that'll hit something important". There's very little in the way of "this will drop someone much faster every single time" even though we know those differences exist.
>All we really get from the most extensive testing is "yeah that'll hit something important".
Just because we don't know exactly how an individual will react to being shot doesn't mean wound ballistics can't improve bullets, and guns, and training to be more effective in general. Gel testing revolutionized bullet design, for example.
Nevervtrust a gay with a butterfly collection next to his uzi. gay.
Beretta doesn’t make a gun in 5.7mm so I won’t own one
All 11 people shot center of mass died because they couldn't be removed from the area quickly enough to save them, same thing would have happened with 22lr. All people shot in flesh areas did not die, indicating the round is as mediocre as any other pistol round at producing better effects than holes. In short, 5.7 is a meme you buy if you want to shoot through plates.
>5.7 is a meme you buy if you want to shoot through plates.
More like shooting through substandard Kevlar. Even lv3 stops the "AP" stuff when shot out of a pistol.
Non AP copper solids punch straight through level iiia panels, nothing "substandard" about it.
It won't go though plates, but don't use these meaningless weasel words to try to distort the truth.
I'd heard 5.7 makers underload the cartridge compared to what it _could_ perform if they made it as hot as possible
I like 5.7 and love my ps90. Closest thing we'll ever get to a center-fire .22lr.
.45
I've had 5.7 ammunition separate in the bore with case neck separation in the bore multiple times with multiple brands, including Speer Gold Dot. This has caused severe stoppages every time. I would never trust my life with it because of this. I asked Ruger about this and they said it was normal for 5.7 ammo.
What did you think of the ruger 57, i was planning on buying it but now that you said that i wont, since the ammo is shit.
I loved the Ruger 57. Great quality firearm. You would not be disappointed by that. Great sights and feel too. Perhaps you could find a way around the ammo issue but Fiocchi Range Dynamics, Speer Gold Dot and I think American eagle I all had case neck separation failures with. Which would have gotten you killed, potentially. Quite a shame.
I guess if I buy it then I will only use FN brand ammo, thanks for the information, I really like the gun itself since it looks so cool and holes 20 rounds.
5.7 is the HV winner now. 9mmfriends seething