>3x the energy of .22 magnum
.22 WMR, 40gr at 1,875fps out of a 24" barrel = 324 ft-lbs of energy
5.7x28, 27gr at 2,550fps out of a 10.35" barrel = 389 ft-lbs of energy
It's slower and therefore has less energy out of a 5" barreled handgun, so yes it's pretty much the same as shooting someone with a .22 magnum. Almost identical, actually.
>perfect version of .22 Magnum >won't function without lacquered cartridges because they had to give it zero case taper in order to work in a magazine for their meme SMG >boxer primed, rimless, bottleneck case has massive cost disadvantage against .22 mag
if it were a meme it would've died decades ago. especially with the surge it's seeing the past few years, it's here to stay, the exact opposite of the definition of a meme. will it supercede existing pistol calibers? frick no, not ever. has it slowly carved out a niche, growing in acceptance and popularity to supercede that term? absolutely. try it, many seem to like it, especially if if you subscribe to the "shot placement exceeds all other needs" school of thought.
The PSA Rock looks very compelling and I'm wondering if this is a good cartridge for defensive purposes. I know it has low recoil but how much damage can it do to human targets?
the Rock IS compelling, because it does a lot of things very well despite the price tag. before I praise it however, suppressing it has proven difficult for some, and 5.7 ballistic-tip or hollows don't reliably expand, they act a bit more like 5.56 and tumble and fragment to "do damage." That said, I fricking love my Rock. Glock sights, fits a lot of G17 holsters (picrel,) Glock-style safeties instead of manual thumb safeties and has THE. BEST. striker trigger on the planet, no exaggeration. Has a beefy fluted barrel compared to others like FN and Ruger pencil barrels, is SAFER than the Ruger (whose safety only moves the trigger bar, doesn't block the hammer or firing pin) and mags are not only the highest capacity of the rest of the competition, but twenty fricking dollars. Not fifty, not thirty, $20. PSA offers a LOT of customization, too. Say what you want about the brand, but they made a solid fricking gem out of the Rock.
>5.7 ballistic-tip or hollows don't reliably expand, they act a bit more like 5.56 and tumble and fragment to "do damage."
Lol. Imagine believing that you're getting intermediate rifle caliber tier wound ballistics with less muzzle energy than 9mm.
I said they ACT like 5.56, I didn't say the two are comparable - however I AM gonna say the muzzle energy IS comparable to 9mm when comparing basic-b***h rounds, and 5.7 exceeds 9x19 defensive rounds absolutely. Solid brass Dragon Fang shit, that Elite Ammo and Vanguard boutique shit is absolutely devastating, factually. Much less available than hotter 9x19, but absolutely better.
>Say what you want about the brand,
What's wrong with PSA?
They make solid products for literally cheaper than dirt. Their mission statement is to shit out 10 billion military grade firearms every week until every man, woman, and baby is armed. They are true American heroes.
You can't deny (unless you're a tourist) that PSA is a divisive brand, they didn't get the poorgay's-wet-dream stereotype for no reason, but I have nothing bad to say about them but the only things I own that they built is the Rock, I cant speak for their earlier ARs and shit. I know I want a Jakl real bad, too.
how is hearing safe if its supersonic? you still need earpro. nta but yeah why
11 months ago
Anonymous
>how is hearing safe if its supersonic? you still need earpro. nta but yeah why
The maximum protection regular worn earpro can give you is ~40dB, and in practice you're doing well to get 30. Doubling up doesn't help that. Even with earpro guns don't meet standard exposure recs for normal training usage, particularly indoors (or outdoors next to hard surfaces). Whereas earpro doubles up perfectly with a suppressor obviously. Taking 20-40dB off with a suppressor first means that even with more comfy or less than perfect earpro you're still fine.
Suppressors also are always there, including if you ever need a gun for defense. Why should I suffer any hearing damage because someone broke into my house, or encounter a bear on the trail? If you don't live a mile away from anyone else (I've got a neighbor at only 1/4 mile or so) suppressors are more polite for shooting at whatever hour.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Bro those suppressors are long as frick imagine having that on your gun all the time. You want to look like Jack Nicholson's Joker pulling a 2 foot long gun out of your pants?
You can load AP ammunition for basically any service pistol caliber. What made 5.7x28mm special for that purpose was that it would penetrate out to much longer ranges, which is a concern with military firefights but is a non issue in the civilian world.
Yeh fair point. What I meant is that AP is the main trick it has going for it so judging that specific element by commercial loadings not the military one which is intentionally unavailable for the US market at least is silly.
>Is this cartridge actually good or is it a meme?
It was the answer to extremely specific military question back in the 90s regarding SMGs/PDWs. The problem is that the question was very narrow, didn't really matter to civilian use cases, and better answers that are also broader have since come into existence since. SMGs/PCCs in general are dropping in use, modern SBRs can generally do the job much better and that continues to improve.
5.7 was designed around the SMG case and then "technically you can use it in a full size handgun too" was tossed in so it could check NATO commonality preferences. But it's an expensive more finnicky round, the lube on it and size makes it hard to reload. In a handgun it's frankly just plain bad. The velocity figures you see thrown around are out of 10" or even 16" barrels, not 4-5", and even that is big for a handgun. The most popular handguns are compacts or even microcompacts, because those are easier to conceal, and civilian defense usage is overwhelmingly (like 97%) <10yd, vs unarmored targets. But even for armor, 5.7 isn't special, out of a handgun velocity isn't significantly better then something like a 68gr +P 9mm round, which has complete powder burn faster on top.
So I suppose yes, it's kind of a meme. Make no mistake P90 is a super fun gun to shoot, as close as you can get to a scifi needler. If you get the chance try it. They're awesome. Also expensive, and then you realize you just burned a pile of money in an instant since the cheapest 5.7 is like 50cpr and with 50rnd mags that adds up in a real hurry. But I'd honestly rather go with 300bo or even 5.56 in an SBR and a normal cheap handgun caliber in handguns.
>Is this cartridge actually good or is it a meme?
Are you looking to equip rear lines of a military force that are unlikely to ever see combat with a lightweight, compact gun that will penetrate common armor intended to stop fragmentation (that any modern military issues even if they don't issue rifle plates) out to the ranges military firefights commonly take place at, or significantly reduce the weight of pistols and ammunition carried in combat by people who are also carrying tons of other shit? Then yes, it's actually good. Are you an average Joe doing average Joe shit? Then no, it's an overpriced meme round that doesn't do anything special vs other service pistol calibers you could be choosing from.
It's good for the specific niche it was designed for which was rear line troops/vehicle crews needing to deal with body armour in a miliary context where you can't use hollow points anyway. That's moreso for the PDW role with handguns being chambered in it also for logistics reasons.
It should have been 5.8x26mm and with a slightly shorter bullet tip. If the round was shorter it would have been far more appealing as a handgun round.
Or alternatively, keep it as x28mm but make the bullet diameter 5.8m and with a shorter tip so that it stays a PDW/SMG round.
I used to think it was cool but then I watched Paul Harrell's video where he shot the meat target. While it's very cool that it zips through soft body armor, it seems that the P90 focused more on having a million rounds
It's fine. If you shoot a man with it, he will die, same as most bullets. It will kill him faster than some and slower than others. The calculus of whether it's the right level of rapidity is yours to consider.
Subjectively, it is very flat shooting and has little recoil. I would shoot it if it were cheaper.
Here's the answer to your question for handguns.
Are you okay that it's only comparable to 9mm energy?
Do you find value in a pistol that is extremely controllable (more like a .22lp than a 9mm)?
Do you find value in being able to capitalize on the controllability is a metric frick ton of ammo for its size?
If you answered yes to these then it's a good round.
If you're more of the school of 1 taping with a 10mm or a .44 then it's a bad round.
Glorified 22LR
I always thought it looked closer to .17 hmr but without the plastic tip
You're both wrong and dumb, it's basically the perfect version of .22 Magnum, .22 Magnum if it didn't suck ass
22 mag with 3x the energy. to be correct. anything else said is cringe fuddlore.
>3x the energy of .22 magnum
.22 WMR, 40gr at 1,875fps out of a 24" barrel = 324 ft-lbs of energy
5.7x28, 27gr at 2,550fps out of a 10.35" barrel = 389 ft-lbs of energy
It's slower and therefore has less energy out of a 5" barreled handgun, so yes it's pretty much the same as shooting someone with a .22 magnum. Almost identical, actually.
He already said .17 HMR
Shut the frick up
>perfect version of .22 Magnum
>won't function without lacquered cartridges because they had to give it zero case taper in order to work in a magazine for their meme SMG
>boxer primed, rimless, bottleneck case has massive cost disadvantage against .22 mag
It's shit
It's holds alotta bullet, it's light, zippy and fun to shoot, seethe more buttchugger
if it were a meme it would've died decades ago. especially with the surge it's seeing the past few years, it's here to stay, the exact opposite of the definition of a meme. will it supercede existing pistol calibers? frick no, not ever. has it slowly carved out a niche, growing in acceptance and popularity to supercede that term? absolutely. try it, many seem to like it, especially if if you subscribe to the "shot placement exceeds all other needs" school of thought.
The PSA Rock looks very compelling and I'm wondering if this is a good cartridge for defensive purposes. I know it has low recoil but how much damage can it do to human targets?
>the PSA rock looks very cheap
Cheap is beautiful
the Rock IS compelling, because it does a lot of things very well despite the price tag. before I praise it however, suppressing it has proven difficult for some, and 5.7 ballistic-tip or hollows don't reliably expand, they act a bit more like 5.56 and tumble and fragment to "do damage." That said, I fricking love my Rock. Glock sights, fits a lot of G17 holsters (picrel,) Glock-style safeties instead of manual thumb safeties and has THE. BEST. striker trigger on the planet, no exaggeration. Has a beefy fluted barrel compared to others like FN and Ruger pencil barrels, is SAFER than the Ruger (whose safety only moves the trigger bar, doesn't block the hammer or firing pin) and mags are not only the highest capacity of the rest of the competition, but twenty fricking dollars. Not fifty, not thirty, $20. PSA offers a LOT of customization, too. Say what you want about the brand, but they made a solid fricking gem out of the Rock.
sorry, pic is a 19 holster, but it fits AND retains it despite the muzzle sticking out
>Best trigger
Better than a pdp/ppq?
>5.7 ballistic-tip or hollows don't reliably expand, they act a bit more like 5.56 and tumble and fragment to "do damage."
Lol. Imagine believing that you're getting intermediate rifle caliber tier wound ballistics with less muzzle energy than 9mm.
I said they ACT like 5.56, I didn't say the two are comparable - however I AM gonna say the muzzle energy IS comparable to 9mm when comparing basic-b***h rounds, and 5.7 exceeds 9x19 defensive rounds absolutely. Solid brass Dragon Fang shit, that Elite Ammo and Vanguard boutique shit is absolutely devastating, factually. Much less available than hotter 9x19, but absolutely better.
>posts an image making claims with no sources attached to an image that most people would identify as a shitpost
Frick off moron.
>Say what you want about the brand,
What's wrong with PSA?
They make solid products for literally cheaper than dirt. Their mission statement is to shit out 10 billion military grade firearms every week until every man, woman, and baby is armed. They are true American heroes.
You can't deny (unless you're a tourist) that PSA is a divisive brand, they didn't get the poorgay's-wet-dream stereotype for no reason, but I have nothing bad to say about them but the only things I own that they built is the Rock, I cant speak for their earlier ARs and shit. I know I want a Jakl real bad, too.
why the frick would you suppress 5.7mm?
Because the bang at the muzzle is louder than the whizz of a bullet breaking the sound barrier?
sounds like you want to larp as sam fisher
Yeah?
Where do you think you are?
Everyone here is LARPing as Big Boss or Splinter Cell or Die Hard
>why the frick would you suppress 5.7mm?
Why would you NOT suppress ANY firearm? Have you already gone deaf anon?
how is hearing safe if its supersonic? you still need earpro. nta but yeah why
>how is hearing safe if its supersonic? you still need earpro. nta but yeah why
The maximum protection regular worn earpro can give you is ~40dB, and in practice you're doing well to get 30. Doubling up doesn't help that. Even with earpro guns don't meet standard exposure recs for normal training usage, particularly indoors (or outdoors next to hard surfaces). Whereas earpro doubles up perfectly with a suppressor obviously. Taking 20-40dB off with a suppressor first means that even with more comfy or less than perfect earpro you're still fine.
Suppressors also are always there, including if you ever need a gun for defense. Why should I suffer any hearing damage because someone broke into my house, or encounter a bear on the trail? If you don't live a mile away from anyone else (I've got a neighbor at only 1/4 mile or so) suppressors are more polite for shooting at whatever hour.
Bro those suppressors are long as frick imagine having that on your gun all the time. You want to look like Jack Nicholson's Joker pulling a 2 foot long gun out of your pants?
>it tumbles
>so its like 5.56
Delusional. It tumbles so its like a heavy for caliber .22lr in terms of wounding.
>m-muh velocity
not enough to matter.
It is the future
I thought 10mm is the future?
5.7 for women, elderly and troony's, 10mm for real men, patriots and professional street homies
What about manly brick trannies, I think they could handle like a 10mm at least
Hey its me
10mm is God's caliber. We live in a godless society. Only a select few will guide the flock into His arms.
>It is the future
The harsh but fair neofeudal cyberpunk second cold war future, if FN's aesthetics are anything to go by.
Would be neat to have, but I'm having trouble deciding between the FN, S&W, or Ruger.
There are reported issues with the S&W mags.
It's overpriced and the armor penetration is overhyped, the ability to fit 30 rounds in a mag is good though, but the round isn't particularly potent
>the armor penetration is overhyped,
Better if you use the actual milspec AP ammo that civilians aren't allowed to buy.
You can load AP ammunition for basically any service pistol caliber. What made 5.7x28mm special for that purpose was that it would penetrate out to much longer ranges, which is a concern with military firefights but is a non issue in the civilian world.
Yeh fair point. What I meant is that AP is the main trick it has going for it so judging that specific element by commercial loadings not the military one which is intentionally unavailable for the US market at least is silly.
>Is this cartridge actually good or is it a meme?
It was the answer to extremely specific military question back in the 90s regarding SMGs/PDWs. The problem is that the question was very narrow, didn't really matter to civilian use cases, and better answers that are also broader have since come into existence since. SMGs/PCCs in general are dropping in use, modern SBRs can generally do the job much better and that continues to improve.
5.7 was designed around the SMG case and then "technically you can use it in a full size handgun too" was tossed in so it could check NATO commonality preferences. But it's an expensive more finnicky round, the lube on it and size makes it hard to reload. In a handgun it's frankly just plain bad. The velocity figures you see thrown around are out of 10" or even 16" barrels, not 4-5", and even that is big for a handgun. The most popular handguns are compacts or even microcompacts, because those are easier to conceal, and civilian defense usage is overwhelmingly (like 97%) <10yd, vs unarmored targets. But even for armor, 5.7 isn't special, out of a handgun velocity isn't significantly better then something like a 68gr +P 9mm round, which has complete powder burn faster on top.
So I suppose yes, it's kind of a meme. Make no mistake P90 is a super fun gun to shoot, as close as you can get to a scifi needler. If you get the chance try it. They're awesome. Also expensive, and then you realize you just burned a pile of money in an instant since the cheapest 5.7 is like 50cpr and with 50rnd mags that adds up in a real hurry. But I'd honestly rather go with 300bo or even 5.56 in an SBR and a normal cheap handgun caliber in handguns.
>Is this cartridge actually good or is it a meme?
Are you looking to equip rear lines of a military force that are unlikely to ever see combat with a lightweight, compact gun that will penetrate common armor intended to stop fragmentation (that any modern military issues even if they don't issue rifle plates) out to the ranges military firefights commonly take place at, or significantly reduce the weight of pistols and ammunition carried in combat by people who are also carrying tons of other shit? Then yes, it's actually good. Are you an average Joe doing average Joe shit? Then no, it's an overpriced meme round that doesn't do anything special vs other service pistol calibers you could be choosing from.
It's good for the specific niche it was designed for which was rear line troops/vehicle crews needing to deal with body armour in a miliary context where you can't use hollow points anyway. That's moreso for the PDW role with handguns being chambered in it also for logistics reasons.
I would get one if the ammo was a lot cheaper and the cool nato rounds were available
It should have been 5.8x26mm and with a slightly shorter bullet tip. If the round was shorter it would have been far more appealing as a handgun round.
Or alternatively, keep it as x28mm but make the bullet diameter 5.8m and with a shorter tip so that it stays a PDW/SMG round.
I miss the old aesthetics, why’d they have to genericize it?
fort hood shooting
>Is this cartridge actually good or is it a meme?
yeah
Why did FN make the new five seven so ugly?
the five seven was always ugly, but at least the dated aesthetic of the old one gave it some charm
I used to think it was cool but then I watched Paul Harrell's video where he shot the meat target. While it's very cool that it zips through soft body armor, it seems that the P90 focused more on having a million rounds
It's fine. If you shoot a man with it, he will die, same as most bullets. It will kill him faster than some and slower than others. The calculus of whether it's the right level of rapidity is yours to consider.
Subjectively, it is very flat shooting and has little recoil. I would shoot it if it were cheaper.
I wouldn't wanna get shot by it.
considering no good cartridge has ever been measured in metric, it’s probably shit
9.3x62mm
>rimless bottleneck spitzer bullets
got anything else generic to add to the list
One of those cartridges predates spitzer bullets dumbass
just because it’s old doesn’t make it good
It’s good in spite of being old.
7x57
Here's the answer to your question for handguns.
Are you okay that it's only comparable to 9mm energy?
Do you find value in a pistol that is extremely controllable (more like a .22lp than a 9mm)?
Do you find value in being able to capitalize on the controllability is a metric frick ton of ammo for its size?
If you answered yes to these then it's a good round.
If you're more of the school of 1 taping with a 10mm or a .44 then it's a bad round.
It packs well into a magazine and has a decent muzzle velocity. I'm surprised we're not seeing more narrow but high speed cartridges.
Man, imagine 5.7x28 necked down to 4.7mm
that'd really frick
everyone ive let shoot my 5.7 has told me they want one bc its fun to shoot as long as youre fine with wasting 20$ a mag get one
It's good but understand that the military round is the armor piercing good round with higher velocity.
FN refuses to sell the military round to civilians.
So all the ammo you see in stores is the cuckes civilian version that's near useless.