Eh, I could be misremembering, but I think this guy was claiming they had similar efficacy and that the 22lr was good enough, hopefully just a troll video but you never know
Living out in the open and realizing he may not have a trained squad of riflemen around when shit goes down (implying it ever will) made him realize that 308 is better for him.
I honestly can't think of any scenario where a .308 gas gun is a better option than 5.56 other than "military DMR" and "going durr hunting next to the cartel's weed plantation". It hits harder than any intermediate caliber, but against human beings it barely matters and the system weight penalties associated with virtually all such rifles and their ammo makes it a total non-starter if you're having to carry it anywhere—if your fighting load is 100 rounds, a 5.56 gun can do it with an extendo in the gun and a couple of standard caps in your pants pockets, while a .308 setup will weigh several pounds more and require actual LBE for all the extra mags.
not even 7.62x39 survived, the ammo is just too fricking heavy to carry around if you are actually fighting in a war. Nobody wants to carry that much .308.
I think the idea would be to not carry anything extra, maybe not even a single extra magazine. Why would you as a lone man carry 120+ rounds of ammunition around, even if it were 5.56?
Lots of people carry spare pistol mags under circumstances where they're far less likely to need a gun at all, but even if your fighting load is the magazine that's in the gun and not a single round more, 5.56 gives you adequate lethality out to 300+ yards in a lighter gun with a magazine that holds at least half again as many follow-up shots.
11 months ago
Anonymous
How many follow up shots will you be guaranteed with wildlife? You’re shoehorning a defensive gun in a varmint caliber into a hunting role. MAC’s video is kind of absurd because he’ll never “ditch” any caliber otherwise he’d lose his income, but the theme is correct. Ubiquitous calibers that have practical applications beyond gay shooty pew pew LARPs are great
11 months ago
Anonymous
>You’re shoehorning a defensive gun in a varmint caliber into a hunting role.
No I'm not. I specifically meant follow-up shots against human threats you're trying to break contact with. Quit trying to motte and bailey, you're bad at it.
If you're out hunting but are concerned about your hunting rifle having to pull self-defense duty, that falls under "going durr hunting next to the cartel's weed plantation"—and it also falls under "situations you'll probably want more than 20 or 25 rounds readily accessible for".
11 months ago
Anonymous
>sorry kids I only wounded the buck and I lost the trail so no food tonight. I totally could have broken contact if I ran into bad guys though…
11 months ago
Anonymous
How many times do I have to explicitly say that a .308 gas gun arguably makes sense if your intended use case is a gun that you can use for self-defense and hunting simultaneously before you realize that I don't disagree with you on that point? Fricking moron.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If your food situation is so precarious that the results of your hunting expedition determine whether there's food on the table at all then you were going to die anyway. Pathetic.
11 months ago
Anonymous
11 months ago
Anonymous
>How many follow up shots will you be guaranteed with wildlife?
Judging by the deer my brother has shot, about five.
11 months ago
Anonymous
If all you care about is shooting wildlife then why wouldn't you just use a hunting rifle? That plus a handgun for actually realistic self defense (including against wildlife) would still be lighter and handier than a battle rifle alone.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>How many follow up shots will you be guaranteed with wildlife?
Just use good bullets and don’t be a bad shot.
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/77gr-tmk-season-review.79301/
Selous scouts had combat loads in the 400 round range with their fully bodied Fals, and you can make a shitty mag carrier with duct tape. Obviously .308 is heavier and that shit sucks, but it's not like it hasn't been done before, and effectively.
.308 is heavier and that shit sucks. There's literally no reason to do that to yourself—you could carry a normal hunting rifle and whatever 5.56 platform you wanted plus a 210-round fighting load for the same or less weight.
not even 7.62x39 survived, the ammo is just too fricking heavy to carry around if you are actually fighting in a war. Nobody wants to carry that much .308.
>when shit goes down
You mean something like a major Pandemic or war in Europe involving nuclear powers? Yawn. My silver coins will save me. Also slavegirls and road warrior.
Opened it and watched a few minutes in. So far he has mentioned how getting into gunfights in muh SHTF situation is a bad thing, criticized the current CQB rifle trend, and pointed out how people's fantasies of fighting roving bands of marauders while in full kit aren't going to happen and didn't happen in 2020 despite people trying to make those events happen.
>I'm totally going to be taking a 300 yard shot on a deer in high winds
Hopefully he's really good at reading the wind. And I don't get this hurr you can just have one rifle that you need to use for everything bullshit while at the same time dropping $4k on a battle rifle, more on a suppressor for it, and talking about buying ammo for it at a store locally where you're going to be paying $1+ per round.
He’s switching to .308 because it’s more practical as a SHTF round than .300 blackout, 5.56, and any of the other expensive meme rounds. 5.56 isn’t a great hunting round, and a SHTF gun should be more optimized to hunting instead of getting in a gunfight because that probably won’t happen. Which I actually agree with his opinion on that.
What I don’t understand is what does he mean by “ditching”? Surely he’s not getting rid of all his 5.56 guns. He even says his plan is to bug in if SHTF happens, so what is even the point of this video? Just own multiple guns in different calibers lmao
are you going to regale me with the tales of you headshotting deer at 400 yards? it’s not a good hunting round
11 months ago
Anonymous
moron.
11 months ago
Anonymous
My assumption is that he's gonna regale you with tales of deer just walking right up to people, even in the middle of hunting season, making the imagined need for a 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum Ackley Improved Weatherby Improved Shooting Times Westerner Ultra Magnum that can zap them from 500 yards is just that—imagined.
>SHTF gun should be more optimized to hunting instead of getting in a gunfight because that probably won’t happen. Which I actually agree with his opinion on that.
I disagree.
There are 330 million people in America and A LOT of them have the exact same plan.
Every game animal and fish on the continent is going to become an endangered species within a year.
>Not even "SHTF"
Anon, the US is a net exporter of food and farmers need to be paid by the government to not produce as much as they can because it would crash the market, on top of about 40% of the food that stays in the country ending up in the trash rather than being eaten. Anything that would cause real food scarcity in the US would absolutely be SHTF.
This
The second there is real food scarcity in America (Not even "SHTF") every animal larger than a rat is going extinct.
Not disagreeing, but are there any good sources to read about this happening during the Great Depression? I assume that was the last time there was real food scarcity in this country. I know fear of poaching cattle and other farm animals was why silencers were added to the NFA.
It appears that deer did in fact nearly go extinct during the Great Depression, although that was also the nadir of a trend line because apparently they'd been getting skullfricked since the invention of the metallic cartridge, and only all kinds of new autism restricting hunters allowed them to bounce back
This is just anecdotal but my grandpa said that deer were very scarce when he bought the family farm around 1940. He was 43 when they adopted dad so I had really old grandparents. Whitetail were everywhere when I grew up there in the 90's but he said they'd travel several miles to hunt on another farm if someone found a bunch of tracks back then. He never, ever wasted food either. One time I got a pretty nice eight point and I remember how excited he was while he was sawing off one of the hind quarters with his limb saw. Pappaw was great.
>cattle poaching is why suppressors are banned
Source? I've never heard of that, I just chalked it up to normies being terrified of silent killing movie guns.
>Officially, silencers were regulated because they were seen as a potential threat to public safety when used by criminals. However, contrary evidence suggests that during the Great Depression, the choice to include silencers may have been driven by the fear that they would be used for poaching. At the time, purchasing a silencer was cheaper than purchasing a hunting license, which may have been the reason the $200 tax stamp was mandated. While that may not seem like a lot today, that tax is the equivalence of $4,465 in 2023.
>There are also some arguments that Hollywood was cause for lawmakers to assume that silencers were the tools of criminals and assassins, however it’s hard to find evidence of exactly when silencers first appeared in cinema. Whatever the real reason was for their inclusion, silencers are still regulated by the NFA today.
https://silencerco.com/blog/so-you-want-to-buy-a-suppressor-silencer-and-nfa-laws
The NFA was passed in 1933, I doubt they were really in very many movies at that time. Also 1933 was in the middle of the Great Depression and the US had started doing a better job with regulating the wildlife since we almost drove a lot of species to extinction in the late 1800s.
Read about the Ohio ODNR deer repopulation effort. tldr is that between the Dust Bowl (actual food production shortage famine) and Great Depression (food allocation funding skill issue) EVERY deer in OH was eaten. Every last one. Not making it up. All deer in OH today are the result of either walking in, or in many cases descendants of hundreds and hundreds of deer imported from private hunting reserves. OH had very, very strict hunting laws for a long time on deer. For 50 years deer hunting was pretty much not allowed here.
This is giant concern of mine. Not on the needing animals for food, but on the “every wild animal dies off long term”. I’m very concerned for the recovery of wild animals because every idiot with a gun can kill a ton of game. It took decades for game to recover after the depression. There were more animals and less people and scoped rifles were basically non-existent.
I disagree for one reason. The USA is massive and it a real SHTF scenario, mobility will limit you severely. Furthermore depending on when this fictional scenario would occur, it would have a huge difference in outcome.
If SHTF in spring, then yeah I agree that any larger herbivore will be gone. If however SHTF in Fall, then 90% of the population would starve/freeze within that winter.
Another factor is population size without natural predators. The number of European wild hogs, deer etc is massive right now.
A scenario like that is more horrific than any other situation. It's a human plague on the earth. Humans have nothing to eat so they wipe out every other animal in existence. Then everyone starves to death anyway. If we go down, so does the rest of the planet.
What's he planning on hunting in SHTF that's big enough that 5.56 or .22LR wouldn't be a more reasonable option, how is he planning on butchering it and preventing all that meat from spoiling in the absence of civilization as we know it, and how often is he planning on doing this that centralizing his bug-in arsenal around a .308 gas gun is more reasonable than just pulling a separate hunting rifle out of the safe now and then?
He specifically mentions deer, and he lives in northern Indiana, which is very flat so he could be taking some pretty long range shots in windy weather. .308 is simply a better cartridge for deer, deer in the Midwest are big and 5.56 isn’t really a good choice, especially at long distances. Also butchering an animal isn’t very hard, and there are plenty of ways to store meat even if the power grid goes down. I assume his rich ass has some sort of generator or something, and also people have been hunting and storing meat for all of human history, it didn’t only start 100 years ago when the refrigerator was invented.
Agree on your last point though, I don’t understand what the point of the video is. He clearly has a shit ton of guns. Even I just have a bolt action rifle specifically for hunting
I'm aware that those skills exist and that .308 is more ethical for durr than 5.56 or .22LR—I'm also aware that nearly everyone who engages in this sort of daydreaming views their raifu as a magic totem that will make everything else about the collapse of society fall into place, and I have no reason to believe that Tim isn't one of them, unless he has a B channel full of videos about purifying and storing water, vegetable gardening, livestock smallholding, butchering game and preserving the meat—including the organ meat that you'd normally discard but would be a key source of nutrients in a long-term emergency, ditch medicine, etc.
That he's fundamentally unserious and just shilling the Sig Spear simply strikes me as a far more likely possibility.
>Agree on your last point though, I don’t understand what the point of the video is. He clearly has a shit ton of guns. Even I just have a bolt action rifle specifically for hunting
It occurred to me that he might feel the need to hunt with a battle rifle instead of a "normal" deer gun in case he's attacked mid-hunt by bandits who think that it's an awesome idea to bother someone who has little more than a gun, a knife, and maybe some snacks instead of some lower-risk, higher-reward victim like literally anyone else.
>virtually all infantry combat since WWI has happened within 400 meters >majority of engagements have happened within 300 meters >"sweet spot" for infantry on infantry engagements has been 100-250 meters >most assault rifles and intermediate rounds can easily handle these ranges >even CQB specific variants and specialty rifles can as well >all while carrying more ammunition >less recoil >more ammunition being available >and more versatile >"shisznits hits the fan, you're gonna want to avoid any fight if there even is any"
If you have a rifle that can shoot at least 350 meters and has parts and ammo commonality where you live, you are perfectly fine for all contingencies that doesn't require concealing your intentions and weapons, in which case PDW's and pistols work just fine as well.
>He’s switching to .308 because it’s more practical as a SHTF round
Because Rogue Government (typically captured by Reds) is the leading cause of unnatural death after the 20th century indefinitely.
>Just own multiple guns in different calibers lmao
yeah
>.308 because it’s more practical as a SHTF round than .300 blackout
.300 blackout was always a meme round. It always felt like a solution looking for a problem.
It's a large caliber bullet with very lethal ballistics within 150m that is designed to be shot suppressed out of a short barrel. There are plenty of use cases where that's extremely valuable. I know a ton of people who use it just for varmint and deer hunting. The suppressed subsonic rounds are nearly bb gun quiet so you don't have to run around with earpro. And it's a great .30 cal round for those , shooting within 200m that costs less than $1/rd.
>lethal ballistics within 150m that is designed to be shot suppressed out of a short barrel. >I know a ton of people who use it just for varmint and deer hunting. >$1/rd
Yeah, that still seems like they're going out of their own way to not just use another conventional cartridge for hunting.
What other conventional cartridges can shoot well through a short barrel (nice for using with a suppressor and staying at a manageable OAL), have a variety of subsonic options, and work with supers and subs in a semi auto? It’s a smaller niche for sure, but it’s good at it.
You can reload subs for a .308 or similar pretty easily but not everyone has reloading a reloading press. You are also stuck to a bolt action or lever action.
It means he is now feeling like a sniper man and is superior to people who buy 11 inch KACs. This guys channel is nothing but shilling. Not funny not educational just pure product shilling. Not objective either. He will make a 20 minute video about a broken weapon just to shill it as much as possible
Unless his SHTF ROE is to murder anyone visibly armed on his side of the fence on sight even if they're all the way down at the end of his 1000 yard driveway, doesn't 6.5 Grendel acceptably handle both of those issues?
Your reminder that the longest confirmed legal shot that hit another person in the civilian world was 187 yards by a police sniper, and that the only people who have taken shots past that distance were mass shooters indiscriminately shooting people. The realities of confirming your target is actually a threat, not dealing with large organized groups that are much easier to see from a distance like the army does, and people having better things to do with their days than watch over a field for potential enemy incursion vastly limit the ranges that civilian engagements take place at.
>the longest confirmed legal shot that hit another person in the civilian world was 187 yards by a police sniper
It is really amazing to contemplate that the single all-time record, twice the distance as virtually any other instance, is basically "chip shot from a guy that's owned his SKS for two days" territory
Makes all of "the meta" look like a massive waste of time
Btw the same study with a 20-year nationwide data set that the 187 yard shot came from also revealed that the median shot by a police sniper was from 51 yards
Not the median shot from a patrolman with a Glock or an AR, literally only counting the marksmen with the high powered scopes
They debunked an older fudd rumor that was "the average police sniper engagement is 70 yards"
How many police marksmen - actual scoped, static, police marksmen/snipers, not patrol carbines - have fired a shot at a bad dude in that study? I would have thought there'd be frick all?
Not at all questioning your point, I agree - I'm just really struggling to recall many if any?
>twice the distance as virtually any other instance,
There have been other long distance shots, such as that 183 yard shot by a cop with his patrol rifle in Washington, but otherwise yeah. Even .22lr can do that in practiced hands, and many submachine guns from when armies issued them were considered to be effective out to 200 meters.
Noguns here...since range isn't a big factor in the civilian context, is it wrong to favor power? I'm not defending this dude's gun, but is his caliber choice wise for human-on-human purposes?
11 months ago
Anonymous
It won't matter really. The trajectory for a 308 isn't much worse than a 5.56 55 or 62 grain. Especially within 300 meters. It's not until you hit longer range that you start to notice significant differences and by then the energy that a 5.56 is sending is very little compared to the 308. Overall, the 5.56 is always underwhelming compared to the 308 with no real advantages other than expense and availability. I have a 5.56 only because I figured there would always be ammo for it. Same reason to get a 9mm really.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And btw, I mean to say that the 5.56's advantages won't matter. The 7.62x51 makes more sense from a terminal effect perspective. Larger diameter and more energy means an enormous difference in cavitation patterns and exit wound sizes so a hit is always going to be radically different no matter where it hits. 5.56lets will argue that fragmentation will make up for it, but fragmentation is accidental. There's no real control over it and no reason to expect more lethality even if it were to occur. It's a coping mechanism basically.
So the 7.62x39 is a better choice too, if using a 123 grain or 154 grain hollow point boat tail. The heavier grain boat tail bullet has a better trajectory than the average x39 round and both have better expansion characteristics and exit wound sizes over the 5.56. The penetration of the average steel cased 123 grain (not HPBT) el cheapo x39 round is superior to the 62 grain 5.56 round. The x39 wins in all categories except when shooting past short-medium ranges. But then again, you should be using something else like a 308, 270, or 30-06 if you want to go further. And if you want to go further than 400-500 meters, just get a PRC and save yourself headaches at practice.
Is x39/x51 wise for a person's first rifle?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Not that anon but 7.62x39 is a very good all purpose cartridge so yes
There's also lots of cheap, shitty ammo available for getting the basics of shooting down
Handloads can be pretty varied too.
It's a bit snappy with its recoil
It's not great at anything, but it has no significant downsides either.
Little experience with x51 so not commenting on that
11 months ago
Anonymous
Look at ammo prices, then consider that 7.62x39mm prices are likely going to jump a few cents per round in the coming months as the last of the Russian ammo stops being imported. .223 will likely see a slight bump in prices as well as a good portion of the cheapest ammo is from Russia, although no where near as much as 7.62x39mm. If you want a gun that's in one of those calibers and paying that much to shoot doesn't bother you, then go ahead.
11 months ago
Anonymous
no, both are annoyingly expensive. if you want a medium-caliber round for long range stuff, go 6.5 sneedmore, its actually pretty reasonable.
11 months ago
Anonymous
No. AKs, while cool as frick, are inferior and much more expensive nowadays. x39 prices are going to increase dramatically soon because the import ban’s effects will start hitting (1 more year of “normal” at most). Until the Ukraine war stops and some other eastern bloc country sets up a factory there won’t be much cheap steel cased x39.
7.62x51 has all the same problems but does give you a more viable long range gun. Ammo is more expensive, weighs more, and it will recoil even harder in heavier guns. Guns will cost more too. If you aren’t used to shooting get a AR in 5.56. They are popular for a reason.
To anyone saying “they are just common they aren’t good” or “their only common because it’s cheap”, those people are idiots. It became common because it’s good. If it always sucked it wouldn’t have been popular. They are cheap now but that’s relatively new. Pre-2016 they were fairly expensive. 2004-2014 they were expensive compared to other options. But they still became popular during that time because it’s good. Yes the 2016 era of panic buying and then being super cheap helped get them in everyone’s hands, but it was popular before that
11 months ago
Anonymous
>other than expense and availability.
And size/weight, and recoil, and the refinement of factory ammo, and
11 months ago
Anonymous
You’re purposely omitting >lighter weight >lighter recoil >more ammo capacity
And purposely (or idiotically) equating tissue damage with raw ft lbs. 75/77gr 5.56 will do more to a person than a lot of .308 hunting loads. If you do use say a 110gr vmax in .308 you’ll certainly get more tissue damage but it’s overkill. A chest shot with either in the same place is killing them almost immediately. Going to .308 won’t turn a gutshot into an instant kill from the extra energy
11 months ago
Anonymous
And btw, I mean to say that the 5.56's advantages won't matter. The 7.62x51 makes more sense from a terminal effect perspective. Larger diameter and more energy means an enormous difference in cavitation patterns and exit wound sizes so a hit is always going to be radically different no matter where it hits. 5.56lets will argue that fragmentation will make up for it, but fragmentation is accidental. There's no real control over it and no reason to expect more lethality even if it were to occur. It's a coping mechanism basically.
So the 7.62x39 is a better choice too, if using a 123 grain or 154 grain hollow point boat tail. The heavier grain boat tail bullet has a better trajectory than the average x39 round and both have better expansion characteristics and exit wound sizes over the 5.56. The penetration of the average steel cased 123 grain (not HPBT) el cheapo x39 round is superior to the 62 grain 5.56 round. The x39 wins in all categories except when shooting past short-medium ranges. But then again, you should be using something else like a 308, 270, or 30-06 if you want to go further. And if you want to go further than 400-500 meters, just get a PRC and save yourself headaches at practice.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>So the 7.62x39 is a better choice too, if using a 123 grain or 154 grain hollow point boat tail.
Now I know you’re taking the piss >The heavier grain boat tail bullet has a better trajectory than the average x39 round
Which is still dogshit >and both have better expansion characteristics and exit wound sizes over the 5.56.
Both still have worse terminal performance than 5.56. Why did the Soviets switch to 5.45 if 7.62 is better? Why have we gotten 40 years of “poison bullet” myths about 5.45? Why were the SF guys who trialed the M16 in Vietnam so in love with it and heaping praise about it’s effectiveness?
11 months ago
Anonymous
No, actually.
5.56mm is particularly wicked at short ranges because of its hyper velocity.
It's why subtle things like a 12.5 or 14.5 inch barrel could see opposition end up with a clean .22 inch hole punched through them instead of their organs mangled to hamburger
The conventional wisdom was that terminally, .308 really starts to shine over .223 at 400+ yards, so that distance being mooted entirely hurts .308 more than .223
11 months ago
Anonymous
I have a suppressed Ruger Scout rifle with burris scout scope chambered in .350 legend.
It's probably similar to a .30-30 ballistically except I can get 250gr subsonics for it and have the rifle noise only broadcast out probably a little over an 1/8 of a mile as opposed to well over a mile. The 250gr subs also expand out to 150 yards and tumble. There's video of them cutting a 2" wide hole in ballistic gel and unlike .308 it's legal to hunt with in my state.
Small, light, easy to carry bolt action scout rifle, suppressed is just an incredibly pleasing rifle to shoot. I love it but would still prefer the AR for self defense.
10 months ago
Anonymous
.350L is underrated as frick. >phenomenal short barrel performance down to like 8" >big fukken bullets compared to .30 cal >can load 90-147gr 9x19 bullets that explode harder than a 40gr .220 Swift
It's actually excellent for anything you'd need a long gun for. It can be a tiny HD gun, a game rifle, or a varmint gun.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>I have a suppressed Ruger Scout rifle with burris scout scope chambered in .350 legend.
.350L is underrated as frick. >phenomenal short barrel performance down to like 8" >big fukken bullets compared to .30 cal >can load 90-147gr 9x19 bullets that explode harder than a 40gr .220 Swift
It's actually excellent for anything you'd need a long gun for. It can be a tiny HD gun, a game rifle, or a varmint gun.
>.350L is underrated as frick.
Wish Ruger would chamber the Mini-14 in .350 Legend. It would be excellent for short-range meat hunting and for self-defense. Fudds would buy a wood-stocked version.
10 months ago
Anonymous
They're still not 100% on the AR mags. There are lower capacity ones available but I'm not convinced even they are reliable. The scout rifle uses a AICS mag with an internal sleeve and is single stack. The mini-14 takes different proprietary magazines. If they could get it to feed better than an AR but still be a high cap double stack, that would be a selling advantage to some.
I like .300blk and .350lg for suppressing; .300blk for it's fast powder burns and .350lgnd because of the 250gr ammo and fact I already had a 9mm rated for it. Unlike myself, most people buy .350lgnd because of hunting laws. So, I'm not sure if a high capacity magazine would have any appeal or not. It would be interesting to see.
Knowing the specifics is interesting, but you can tell I already figured as much by my use of the word "murder" to describe the hypothetical shot in question—not that it would really matter in WROL, by definition.
To be fair a SHTF situation, or whatever you want to call it, would be unprecedented territory. Comparing it to existing examples wouldn’t make sense. If you have sight lines around your property for hundreds or yards and can identify someone at those distances, it’s not unreasonable to take the shot on a threat at that range.
The conversation on will that ever happen, should you take the shot, etc are a separate discussion.
>To be fair a SHTF situation, or whatever you want to call it, would be unprecedented territory. Comparing it to existing examples wouldn’t make sense.
Why doesn't it make sense? That anon gave reasons why it doesn't make sense for civilian engagement to happen at the ranges that military engagements do. The idea that SHTF scenarios are going to happen and make all kinds of engagements that don't make even sense in the civilian world happen because "but what if" is ridiculous.
11 months ago
Anonymous
>That anon gave reasons why it doesn't make sense for civilian engagement to happen at the ranges that military engagements do.
Because the entire civilian world would be different. You don’t shoot someone who’s potentially threatening today at distance because you can call the cops instead. I fully realize cops are useless, but try explaining to them why you shot someone 200 yards away for walking onto your property with a gun. even if you were correct and they were there to do you harm, legally you are fricked. In a SHTF situation there aren’t cops who would come to arrest you, there are courts to convict you. If there are, then things aren’t “that bad”. Today there ARENT wandering bandits or looters so why would you compare today to a situation that might have them? It doesn’t make sense.
Again you can argue if that’ll even happen, but if you go with the premise it does, using the current world as an analogy doesn’t make sense. The world would be entirely different.
May we see the numbers for ×39 in the same bullet weights?
11 months ago
Anonymous
You can easily find them yourself. From a full size AK a 123gr is 2300fps and a 154gr is 2100fps. They don’t really make a 168gr x39
10 months ago
Anonymous
...so a 13" .308 with 150gr ammo is spitting like some kind of cursed 26" extendo-RPK with 154s, gotcha
10 months ago
Anonymous
Sure? If you want to look at just velocity. But a 13” .308 will still have a shitty trajectory. It will also recoil harder, have more muzzle flash, and hold less ammo than your hypothetical RPK
He used a special shampoo to clean the cum out of his beard because after a few days the maggots mature and fly away but the smell remains which drives away the gays he wants to suck on.
lemme guess >hey guys im an old fart and I will never ever see combat or anything close to what could be called that and thats why I will be switching over to [CURRENT MEME ROUND] that fullfills this super specific niche that I will never be in 🙂
Just like when all those larpers talk about what they a "currently using" for home defense, as if they are actively engaging in real time live home defense operations on a regular basis and not just "prepping" for some scenario that may (probably never) actually ever happen.
I'm sure there's somewhere in the US where that level of crime is realistic but cutting short the careers of that many young scholars wouldn't get you arrested.
lel I forgot about the SVD thing. I stopped following this guy after he started shilling so hard for the Tavor, but the $8000 SVDs from Hungary with questionable markings just reaffirmed my distrust of this guy. Wasn’t there evidence that these rifles may have actually been from Russia and had been remarked as Hungarian or something to evade the import restrictions? Or am I getting it co fused with some other E celeb bullshit?
They were Russian, 100%. My friend lived outside Budapest in a village on the Danube. He went by what constitutes "FEG" these days and the guys there were joking about it. I posted pics in the threads back then. They showed him some Hi-power clones and some sort of AK-looking subgun that the Hun police apparently hate.
why is there an offing in the middle of the water like an horizon, digital camera frickery?
also shame how in america it is nearly impossible to find a healthy line of viszlas without spending $4000+
The theory was they were made using russian parts that had russian proofing marks on them, which makes sense. I think FEG genuinely put them together for the most part, possibly from partly assembled rifles and they just stamped FEG and proper markings on it.
his IWI commercial during the mikhail kalashnikov tribute video is what rustled my jimmies.
https://i.imgur.com/bATYFjH.png
Black person stole mine from pre-order. Frick Mac.
when i win the powerball, I will investing in a gunmaker to build them here as a tax dodge
https://i.imgur.com/do04GMm.jpg
Here's one of his vizslas playing in the Duna for a little sauce
vizslas are such damn good dogs. old neighbor had one. that dog could find a lost kid like he had satellite linkups and thermals. he could eat some smoked scraps we would make for him till he would shit like a hobo at a piano recital.
>308 is better for him.
its better for everyone
5.56 sucks my shitbox HARD
your mom sucks asners shitbox hard.
https://i.imgur.com/qVCPT3f.jpg
I honestly can't think of any scenario where a .308 gas gun is a better option than 5.56 other than "military DMR" and "going durr hunting next to the cartel's weed plantation". It hits harder than any intermediate caliber, but against human beings it barely matters and the system weight penalties associated with virtually all such rifles and their ammo makes it a total non-starter if you're having to carry it anywhere—if your fighting load is 100 rounds, a 5.56 gun can do it with an extendo in the gun and a couple of standard caps in your pants pockets, while a .308 setup will weigh several pounds more and require actual LBE for all the extra mags.
>WHATTHEYTOOKFROMUS.JPG
[...]
Is x39/x51 wise for a person's first rifle?
FIRST RIFLE should be a Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 60. go burn through bricks of .22lr and learn the tao of it.
13lbs fricking kek. the US MIC has lost it's mind.
either that or weapons acquisitions is just a tick-tock cycle between overmatch and light weight. maybe the next rifle after ngsw will go even lighter than m4
this image is moronic because it doesn't include the suppressor on the M4, which is now standard issue and life saving equipment. The difference is like 2 lbs with it.
you realize our grandfathers used guns that weighed this much, and managed to win two world wars, while being shorter and not working out ever? Modern soldiers are such massive fricking pussies, holy frick. An extra 2 pounds and it's the end of the fricking world, boo hoo. Oh no, my 2 pound extra gun has a computer in it that can first hit kill people 400 yards away, how awful and terrible! Oh no, I'm forced to use a suppressor that will save my life by making me harder to detect! woe is me. fricking homosexuals
>that can first hit kill a guy 400 yards away >obviously once all his buddies take cover I'm right back to delivering suppressing fire against them until the JDAM I ordered gets delivered, but now I have to do it with half as much ammo >this sucks
The 6.8 penetrates cover better, and it's more like 2/3ds of the ammo. Depends on how you do supressing fire, if they're going to make one guy run the box mag variant, etc.
It's not too much of a difference, but if you're destroying or penetrating cover versus plinking off it, it might make all that much more difference, you also get longer range.
>The average grunts battle rattle weighs more than a knights plate armor
And it's disproportionately encumbering since it's not evenly-distributed over his entire body, and the average grunt is probably weaker than the average knight who could afford full plate since he doesn't eat as well.
>you realize our grandfathers used guns that weighed this much, and managed to win two world wars,
Now post the weight of their packs with gear vs a modern load out
This source from the Army says 7.74 lbs with the accessories I mentioned.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140903121037/http://www.army.mil/article/126553/Beefier_carbines_en_route_to_Soldiers/
I actually kinda love the xm8, only thing is the scope seems impractical as frick, and you could probably design a better lighter ACOG for it that'd cut a pound off, and like
this image is moronic because it doesn't include the suppressor on the M4, which is now standard issue and life saving equipment. The difference is like 2 lbs with it.
you realize our grandfathers used guns that weighed this much, and managed to win two world wars, while being shorter and not working out ever? Modern soldiers are such massive fricking pussies, holy frick. An extra 2 pounds and it's the end of the fricking world, boo hoo. Oh no, my 2 pound extra gun has a computer in it that can first hit kill people 400 yards away, how awful and terrible! Oh no, I'm forced to use a suppressor that will save my life by making me harder to detect! woe is me. fricking homosexuals
says, it's more like 11 pounds versus 13.5, so cutting a pound here would be better, and leave it at a 1.5 lb difference.
They really ought to black that thing though, looks fugly in tan.
>has never been in rifle combat >calibers don't make sense to him >his own linkedin admits to being a social media personality
These guys can't make money than you for doing nothing if you don't watch their videos. There are actual trenches full of dead russians who ate 5.56 to death.
MAC is the type of shill whose next video would be about how 5.56 is the supreme rifle round, and nothing can top it if Sig or some other fricking company paid him enough. Shill's gotta shill after all.
he's given up on YouTube superstardom and is liquidating all of his firearms-related assets except for .308 ammo and his Sig Spear to focus on becoming ungovernable and surviving the coming collapse
why? because he's a israelite and will only shoot someone in the back at close range with his 300 memeout. Or what other dumbass excuse this homosexual b***h has to come up with.
a bunch of russaboos on akforums got 100 importable hungarian svds (which may or may not have actually been russian) made with the intention of them all being sold to an interest list that had been around for years. they were going to be sold essentially for cost. tim from military arms channel swoops in and buys all the svds from the importer out from under everyone and jacks up the price by thousands and sells them on gunbroker and/or his patreon crowd and guntuber e-celebs. it was a huge scandal as tim was a generally well liked guy in the online gun community up to that point and he acted like a complete dick to anyone who called out his blatant profiteering. i along with many others stopped following him completely because of it so i don't know what the final disposition was of all the svds but a lot of people got screwed and everyone else was left with a bad taste in their mouths
I mean, technically an interest list or forum group buy doesn't constitute a contract and those rifles were technically the importer's to sell to whomever they saw fit—nobody involved did anything...illegal (probably), but I don't see how you can view "buying a bunch of guns out from under the people they were imported for so you can flip them" as tolerable behavior on his part.
>macattack is now shilling 308 >now all the normies will talk about 308 >now it'll get memed on, overbought, and raved about
i liked it better when nobody talked about 308
In today’s ass-tier market the proper round in the one you can easily get for cheap. The manufacturers are maxed out but they DON’T WANT to gamble on opening new production in case the current ammo run is due to yet another fake gun control scare. Also if gun control seems to be on the horizon that’ll also spook them. If the economy was going great that’s be different, but when it’s bearish nobody wants to invest into anything less than a sure thing.
How come muh SHTF hunting scenarios always focuses solely on deer, as if no other game exists? Insisting that your rifle be good enough for taking the rare 300 yard shot on deer is going to result in being massively overgunned for smaller animals and destroying a lot of the meat.
Because focusing on deer justifies centralizing your SHTF loadout around a battle rifle, using the same weight budget for a 5.56 gun and a 3 lb squirrel rifle, or building a dovecote in your backyard, or keeping goats or chickens or other livestock that turn grass and bugs into food, or whatever else—doesn't.
We know. The debate now isn't 5.56 or X, it's .308 or .277 Fury. If .277 Fury actually takes off then it has some more perks in that contest, but for now .308 isn't going anywhere since it'll always be a popular hunting round and is still a NATO round, and gives all the performance you can desire.
For those still wanting to run lighter intermediates, the debate is 7.62x39 or .300blk. These are also great short barrel or suppressed platforms, which make sense for CQB/HD platforms. So intermediates still have a place, but 5.56 is being phased out as competition. There just isn't any justification left to keep it since the military isn't even pretending it's good anymore.
>There just isn't any justification left to keep it since the military isn't even pretending it's good anymore.
Except that the US military will still be using it for many years, and it is ALSO a NATO round. Not to mention that there are literally about 100 million rifles chambered for it in existence in America alone, and more being sold every day. 5.56 isn't going anywhere, homosexual.
>Does 6.5 Cheedmoor factor in?
Ballistically superior .308 (at least in terms of DMR/SAPR/SASS use) that is actually available right now unlike .277 Fury. Downsides are 6.5 burns out barrels a lot faster than .308 and is still a bit less common than .308. Thanks to PRS there are a lot of good factory match grade 6.5 loads available though. The shorter barrel length that .277 Fury allows for while still maintaining good ballistic performance seems really compelling on paper if it ever becomes readily available. I still don't see either replacing 556 anytime soon.
.308 is cheaper, more common, there's tons of rifles chambered in it to choose from, and it's bigger. In a few years they'll shrink 6.5 down even more and claim it's superior because it's flatter shooting, like no shit a lighter round is flatter shooting, that's why we shrunk 30-06 to .308, I don't want it shrunken any further.
>In a few years they'll shrink 6.5 down even more and claim it's superior because it's flatter shooting,
That has already been done. 6mm cartridges are quite popular in PRS/NRL circles. The idea is not even new .243 Winchester has been around for a long time. I doubt the 6mm cartridges will get as popular as 6.5 Creedmoor has already gone mainstream and non competition shooters wont want to switch again.
>like no shit a lighter round is flatter shooting, that's why we shrunk 30-06 to .308, I don't want it shrunken any further.
what? They are the same caliber and similar common bullet weights. 30-06 just has a bit more case capacity. They shrunk the 30-06 for size reasons not performance.
From the broscience I heard, 30-06 hit harder but had more bullet drop at range, I assume because of heavier bullet weight. .308 is flatter shooting while still retaining good punch. Since someone brought up 6.5CM, it's flatter shooting but with less punch/barrier penetration.
Main reason I go with .308 isn't even the goldilocks zone of full calibers, but because there's such a variety of rifles to choose from and loadings to choose from. You can run a customized setup with specialized ammo, or just some old robust battle rifle that's still in service in some countries with surplus ammo.
>There just isn't any justification left to keep it since the military isn't even pretending it's good anymore.
Nice bait. Did humans get a level up I didn’t hear about? Is 5.56 now no lethal after decades of killing
Why would anyone give a frick what MAC thinks? He's a genuinely moronic shill scammer. I guarantee CopperCustoms™ just got in some big shipment of expensive 308s, so that's what he's 'switching to' this week, until they get in a new shipment of 300 blackout rifles, then he'll make a new video called, 'I was wrong about 300 blackout' or some bullshit. He's a conman, simple as.
your goal should be to avoid combat, not actively seeking it.
I highly doubt you’d ever run into a situation where you need 10 fricking mags on your body
>I got sent a 6000 dollar rifle by Swiss rail barons and I'm a rich fudd who basically only hunts durr
You could have made this a 'Youtube short' like all the cool kids dude.
Also NIG Queer confirmed as the fudd rifle of the future now that Muh Daddeh's Em Wun is much harder to get.
>5.56lets will argue that fragmentation will make up for it, but fragmentation is accidental. There's no real control over it and no reason to expect more lethality even if it were to occur. It's a coping mechanism basically.
Hi moron nogunz. There are bullets which are specifically designed to fragment for various uses such as hunting to cause more damage and this is known to be effective.
6mm ARC or another developed cartridge similar to it will eventually make 5.56 obsolescent once .277 eventually turns out to be a failure but until then 5.56 is still preferable
if he was saying he was ditching 5.56 because .300 BLK exists he might have had a point, but his point is literally 'get fukt I have a 6000 dollar .308 durr gun it's all I need'
Yes it’s everyone else who is wrong. Not the actual paid shill picking a 13” .308 in a new rifle. If he went with a 18 or 20” he has a point. 13” is obviously Sigger shilling
Can you elaborate on that? My impression of TNP is vary close to "ouncegayging for ouncegayging's sake"; what POU would realistically call for .308 in this day and age?
I have noticed that all of these gun youtubers know frick all about ballistics and bullet designs. this gay is talking about 5.56 as if you can only ever use m193 or other dogshit like that, as if there aren't modern expanding barrier blind loads that have extremely consistent performance.
same deal with garand queer, his latest video about barrel lengths he talks about muh fragmentation then makes a passing reference to different bullets solely by weight >62gr and 77gr bullets are great blah blah blah
77gr what dumbass? SMKs? the weight alone tells you nothing.
The vast majority of people, and a frighteningly large percentage of gun owners don't even know what a grain is or what it means, just morebiggerer=morebetterer. Talk of external and terminal ballistics may as well be quantum mechanics to them.
I used to kind of like the guy back when he first started. He actually gave some decent opinions on guns most people could afford. Gradually I began to dislike him and stopped watching completely when he started dick riding the Tavor.
It's sad to see how virtually every "guntuber" has become a soulless shill over the years.
really laughable how this clown talks about hunting for meat to feed his family because of rising food prices when he is a literal millionaire.
buddy if it's getting so hard to put food on the table maybe sell some of the hundreds of expensive firearms you own lmao, that will keep your family fed a lot longer than a few deer.
>muh shtf, muh looting parts and ammo like in muh video games
just buy a stockpile of 5k+ rounds and sit on it, if you need to shoot more than that in the SHTFantasy you are a dead man anyway, how many people walk away from literally dozens of firefights.
same for parts. buy 20 gas tubes, they are dirt cheap, buy 5 bolts, buy 100 magazines, buy some spare barrels. All of this shit is easy to acquire and can sit on the shelf indefinitely. No need to pretend that you are going to loot corpses like some bethesda game.
>muh food, muh huntin' and fishin' in shtf
Raw wheat grain has a shelf life measured in decades and costs pennies per pound. Buy a pallet of raw wheat and put it in airtight buckets somewhere cool and dark. humans have used grain reserves to survive famines since literally ancient times. congrats you now have enough food reserve to survive a fricking comet striking the earth. as an added bonus learning how to make sourdough bread is a much more valuable life skill than larping as a navy seal with 10k+ worth of gear.
I mentioned that because I saw a moron in the comments on the mac vid saying that an AR is a bad choice for MUH SHTF because gas tubes are supposedly weak and you need a AK because pistons don't break.
The point is that all of these replacement parts are cheap so if you are so 'concerned' about doing repairs in the apocalypse that you are using it as an excuse to buy a new toy maybe consider just buying replacement parts instead.
I am unaware of a single instance of someone needing a new gas tube, certainly not first hand. Undoubtedly there is some anecdote out there. I just think it's a weird example and yeah, it would make more sense to just buy 3 of the same gun. That way you can share or if one breaks, suddenly you have an entire gun worth of spare parts, minus the 1 part that is.
..but yes food and potable water is way more important. Personally, I have 5 gallon bucket full of dried rice, beans and some cans of spam. Why spam? Because I don't like it. I intentionally stocked food I don't like.
...but then one day, I hadn't bought any groceries and I was hungry but it was late. So I broke down and opened up the SPAM, sliced and fried it. Frick me, it was pretty good. Now I like spam but still try not to eat it.
>I am unaware of a single instance of someone needing a new gas tube, certainly not first hand. Undoubtedly there is some anecdote out there.
you are right that it's a ridiculous concern for a civilian. the only reasonable case for gas tube failure is when firing a lot of full auto.
but even in that case, the gas tube being the weak point is actually a feature not a bug, because it acts like a sacrificial fuse that spares the barrel. The gas tube will blow before the barrel starts warping from extreme heat and potentially explodes, something that can technically happen to AKs. Of course this entire hypothetical is absurd because even in a military context you would basically never encounter a scenario that would require or even allow you to put out that much full auto fire from a rifle.
Eat a good meal then go out in the field and before you get hungry again eat another cold can of spam with a spoon to go back to hating it.
But yeah shtf is just nornal disaster preparedness with an excuse to buy more toys. I like having a good amount of canned food so I don't have to shop as much and just cycling through the cans putting the newest in the back. If you cut range time and only shoot to hunt and potential ammo use tanks even a few hundred rounds of .308 would probably be fine. Kinda like how 99% of the ammo shot in afghanistan was on firing ranges hopefully you wouldn't be plinking in your backyard if your favored disaster strikes. idk just seems like most people especially guntubers building "offensive" shtf setups just call it as a politically correct version of booging or again just want an excuse I do admit thermals and the like are neat not that I'll ever be able to justify them with kids in the future plans.
I mentioned that because I saw a moron in the comments on the mac vid saying that an AR is a bad choice for MUH SHTF because gas tubes are supposedly weak and you need a AK because pistons don't break.
The point is that all of these replacement parts are cheap so if you are so 'concerned' about doing repairs in the apocalypse that you are using it as an excuse to buy a new toy maybe consider just buying replacement parts instead.
Fr fr, surely anyone who's been through an election year or two understands by now that the only "readily available ammo/parts" are the ones you already have on hand before shit happens
I’d put less stock in the “nato caliber of choice” and more in the “it’s been successfully killing people for 60 years”. But the conclusion is the same
Who the hell wants to live in post-collape. Just meme it till the end and be spiritually fit with Jesus.
Stop worrying so much about calibers and worry about your sins. Amen
can't wait for the military to find out the hard way (again) why battle rifles are impractical and overcorrect in the other direction to something even more moronic like .17-.223
I’m not watching that shill
Good.
I already watched it for you; he's a moron.
fpbp
>5.56 bros...it's over..
it was over before it began
Wait until you get hit with it
.22 makes the same hole on paper
AK74 makes an even smaller hole lmfao
I remember watching YouTube videos unironically claim this in probably the early to mid 2010s, absolutely ridiculous
I read it as, "You're only ever going to shoot at paper anyway LARP'er" but who knows?
Eh, I could be misremembering, but I think this guy was claiming they had similar efficacy and that the 22lr was good enough, hopefully just a troll video but you never know
TLDW?
Sponsored by sig
Living out in the open and realizing he may not have a trained squad of riflemen around when shit goes down (implying it ever will) made him realize that 308 is better for him.
And so he picked a hyper expensive battle rifle with a 13 inch barrel. That will surely give him the range and parts availability he needs to survive.
Fricking dumbass would have been better off with a bolt action if he believed his own advice.
>308 is better for him.
its better for everyone
5.56 sucks my shitbox HARD
killed plenty of Black folk in ukraine this year, your /brg/ memes are dead.
I honestly can't think of any scenario where a .308 gas gun is a better option than 5.56 other than "military DMR" and "going durr hunting next to the cartel's weed plantation". It hits harder than any intermediate caliber, but against human beings it barely matters and the system weight penalties associated with virtually all such rifles and their ammo makes it a total non-starter if you're having to carry it anywhere—if your fighting load is 100 rounds, a 5.56 gun can do it with an extendo in the gun and a couple of standard caps in your pants pockets, while a .308 setup will weigh several pounds more and require actual LBE for all the extra mags.
I think the idea would be to not carry anything extra, maybe not even a single extra magazine. Why would you as a lone man carry 120+ rounds of ammunition around, even if it were 5.56?
Lots of people carry spare pistol mags under circumstances where they're far less likely to need a gun at all, but even if your fighting load is the magazine that's in the gun and not a single round more, 5.56 gives you adequate lethality out to 300+ yards in a lighter gun with a magazine that holds at least half again as many follow-up shots.
How many follow up shots will you be guaranteed with wildlife? You’re shoehorning a defensive gun in a varmint caliber into a hunting role. MAC’s video is kind of absurd because he’ll never “ditch” any caliber otherwise he’d lose his income, but the theme is correct. Ubiquitous calibers that have practical applications beyond gay shooty pew pew LARPs are great
>You’re shoehorning a defensive gun in a varmint caliber into a hunting role.
No I'm not. I specifically meant follow-up shots against human threats you're trying to break contact with. Quit trying to motte and bailey, you're bad at it.
If you're out hunting but are concerned about your hunting rifle having to pull self-defense duty, that falls under "going durr hunting next to the cartel's weed plantation"—and it also falls under "situations you'll probably want more than 20 or 25 rounds readily accessible for".
>sorry kids I only wounded the buck and I lost the trail so no food tonight. I totally could have broken contact if I ran into bad guys though…
How many times do I have to explicitly say that a .308 gas gun arguably makes sense if your intended use case is a gun that you can use for self-defense and hunting simultaneously before you realize that I don't disagree with you on that point? Fricking moron.
If your food situation is so precarious that the results of your hunting expedition determine whether there's food on the table at all then you were going to die anyway. Pathetic.
>How many follow up shots will you be guaranteed with wildlife?
Judging by the deer my brother has shot, about five.
If all you care about is shooting wildlife then why wouldn't you just use a hunting rifle? That plus a handgun for actually realistic self defense (including against wildlife) would still be lighter and handier than a battle rifle alone.
>How many follow up shots will you be guaranteed with wildlife?
Just use good bullets and don’t be a bad shot.
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/77gr-tmk-season-review.79301/
Selous scouts had combat loads in the 400 round range with their fully bodied Fals, and you can make a shitty mag carrier with duct tape. Obviously .308 is heavier and that shit sucks, but it's not like it hasn't been done before, and effectively.
.308 is heavier and that shit sucks. There's literally no reason to do that to yourself—you could carry a normal hunting rifle and whatever 5.56 platform you wanted plus a 210-round fighting load for the same or less weight.
not even 7.62x39 survived, the ammo is just too fricking heavy to carry around if you are actually fighting in a war. Nobody wants to carry that much .308.
>when shit goes down
You mean something like a major Pandemic or war in Europe involving nuclear powers? Yawn. My silver coins will save me. Also slavegirls and road warrior.
Video link because OP is a homosexual.
Opened it and watched a few minutes in. So far he has mentioned how getting into gunfights in muh SHTF situation is a bad thing, criticized the current CQB rifle trend, and pointed out how people's fantasies of fighting roving bands of marauders while in full kit aren't going to happen and didn't happen in 2020 despite people trying to make those events happen.
>I'm totally going to be taking a 300 yard shot on a deer in high winds
Hopefully he's really good at reading the wind. And I don't get this hurr you can just have one rifle that you need to use for everything bullshit while at the same time dropping $4k on a battle rifle, more on a suppressor for it, and talking about buying ammo for it at a store locally where you're going to be paying $1+ per round.
His mossad handlers told him to start shilling .300 blackout
his MOSSAD handlers told him to shill IWI.
He’s switching to .308 because it’s more practical as a SHTF round than .300 blackout, 5.56, and any of the other expensive meme rounds. 5.56 isn’t a great hunting round, and a SHTF gun should be more optimized to hunting instead of getting in a gunfight because that probably won’t happen. Which I actually agree with his opinion on that.
What I don’t understand is what does he mean by “ditching”? Surely he’s not getting rid of all his 5.56 guns. He even says his plan is to bug in if SHTF happens, so what is even the point of this video? Just own multiple guns in different calibers lmao
>5.56 isn’t a great hunting round,
Incorrect.
it’s really not if you idiots are using fmj
Also incorrect
confirmed neverhunted
are you going to regale me with the tales of you headshotting deer at 400 yards? it’s not a good hunting round
moron.
My assumption is that he's gonna regale you with tales of deer just walking right up to people, even in the middle of hunting season, making the imagined need for a 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum Ackley Improved Weatherby Improved Shooting Times Westerner Ultra Magnum that can zap them from 500 yards is just that—imagined.
>sniiffffff
Choppa?
>What's the point
He's a multimillionaire pre YouTube money. Getting more money is the premise and always has been.
>SHTF gun should be more optimized to hunting instead of getting in a gunfight because that probably won’t happen. Which I actually agree with his opinion on that.
I disagree.
There are 330 million people in America and A LOT of them have the exact same plan.
Every game animal and fish on the continent is going to become an endangered species within a year.
This
The second there is real food scarcity in America (Not even "SHTF") every animal larger than a rat is going extinct.
>Not even "SHTF"
Anon, the US is a net exporter of food and farmers need to be paid by the government to not produce as much as they can because it would crash the market, on top of about 40% of the food that stays in the country ending up in the trash rather than being eaten. Anything that would cause real food scarcity in the US would absolutely be SHTF.
Not disagreeing, but are there any good sources to read about this happening during the Great Depression? I assume that was the last time there was real food scarcity in this country. I know fear of poaching cattle and other farm animals was why silencers were added to the NFA.
It appears that deer did in fact nearly go extinct during the Great Depression, although that was also the nadir of a trend line because apparently they'd been getting skullfricked since the invention of the metallic cartridge, and only all kinds of new autism restricting hunters allowed them to bounce back
This is just anecdotal but my grandpa said that deer were very scarce when he bought the family farm around 1940. He was 43 when they adopted dad so I had really old grandparents. Whitetail were everywhere when I grew up there in the 90's but he said they'd travel several miles to hunt on another farm if someone found a bunch of tracks back then. He never, ever wasted food either. One time I got a pretty nice eight point and I remember how excited he was while he was sawing off one of the hind quarters with his limb saw. Pappaw was great.
>cattle poaching is why suppressors are banned
Source? I've never heard of that, I just chalked it up to normies being terrified of silent killing movie guns.
>Officially, silencers were regulated because they were seen as a potential threat to public safety when used by criminals. However, contrary evidence suggests that during the Great Depression, the choice to include silencers may have been driven by the fear that they would be used for poaching. At the time, purchasing a silencer was cheaper than purchasing a hunting license, which may have been the reason the $200 tax stamp was mandated. While that may not seem like a lot today, that tax is the equivalence of $4,465 in 2023.
>There are also some arguments that Hollywood was cause for lawmakers to assume that silencers were the tools of criminals and assassins, however it’s hard to find evidence of exactly when silencers first appeared in cinema. Whatever the real reason was for their inclusion, silencers are still regulated by the NFA today.
https://silencerco.com/blog/so-you-want-to-buy-a-suppressor-silencer-and-nfa-laws
The NFA was passed in 1933, I doubt they were really in very many movies at that time. Also 1933 was in the middle of the Great Depression and the US had started doing a better job with regulating the wildlife since we almost drove a lot of species to extinction in the late 1800s.
Pls educate yourself.
Read about the Ohio ODNR deer repopulation effort. tldr is that between the Dust Bowl (actual food production shortage famine) and Great Depression (food allocation funding skill issue) EVERY deer in OH was eaten. Every last one. Not making it up. All deer in OH today are the result of either walking in, or in many cases descendants of hundreds and hundreds of deer imported from private hunting reserves. OH had very, very strict hunting laws for a long time on deer. For 50 years deer hunting was pretty much not allowed here.
This is giant concern of mine. Not on the needing animals for food, but on the “every wild animal dies off long term”. I’m very concerned for the recovery of wild animals because every idiot with a gun can kill a ton of game. It took decades for game to recover after the depression. There were more animals and less people and scoped rifles were basically non-existent.
I disagree for one reason. The USA is massive and it a real SHTF scenario, mobility will limit you severely. Furthermore depending on when this fictional scenario would occur, it would have a huge difference in outcome.
If SHTF in spring, then yeah I agree that any larger herbivore will be gone. If however SHTF in Fall, then 90% of the population would starve/freeze within that winter.
Another factor is population size without natural predators. The number of European wild hogs, deer etc is massive right now.
A scenario like that is more horrific than any other situation. It's a human plague on the earth. Humans have nothing to eat so they wipe out every other animal in existence. Then everyone starves to death anyway. If we go down, so does the rest of the planet.
Nah.
What's he planning on hunting in SHTF that's big enough that 5.56 or .22LR wouldn't be a more reasonable option, how is he planning on butchering it and preventing all that meat from spoiling in the absence of civilization as we know it, and how often is he planning on doing this that centralizing his bug-in arsenal around a .308 gas gun is more reasonable than just pulling a separate hunting rifle out of the safe now and then?
His argument was that 308 is more practical in SHTF and getting into any sort of gunfight is a terrible idea.
He specifically mentions deer, and he lives in northern Indiana, which is very flat so he could be taking some pretty long range shots in windy weather. .308 is simply a better cartridge for deer, deer in the Midwest are big and 5.56 isn’t really a good choice, especially at long distances. Also butchering an animal isn’t very hard, and there are plenty of ways to store meat even if the power grid goes down. I assume his rich ass has some sort of generator or something, and also people have been hunting and storing meat for all of human history, it didn’t only start 100 years ago when the refrigerator was invented.
Agree on your last point though, I don’t understand what the point of the video is. He clearly has a shit ton of guns. Even I just have a bolt action rifle specifically for hunting
I'm aware that those skills exist and that .308 is more ethical for durr than 5.56 or .22LR—I'm also aware that nearly everyone who engages in this sort of daydreaming views their raifu as a magic totem that will make everything else about the collapse of society fall into place, and I have no reason to believe that Tim isn't one of them, unless he has a B channel full of videos about purifying and storing water, vegetable gardening, livestock smallholding, butchering game and preserving the meat—including the organ meat that you'd normally discard but would be a key source of nutrients in a long-term emergency, ditch medicine, etc.
That he's fundamentally unserious and just shilling the Sig Spear simply strikes me as a far more likely possibility.
>Agree on your last point though, I don’t understand what the point of the video is. He clearly has a shit ton of guns. Even I just have a bolt action rifle specifically for hunting
It occurred to me that he might feel the need to hunt with a battle rifle instead of a "normal" deer gun in case he's attacked mid-hunt by bandits who think that it's an awesome idea to bother someone who has little more than a gun, a knife, and maybe some snacks instead of some lower-risk, higher-reward victim like literally anyone else.
>virtually all infantry combat since WWI has happened within 400 meters
>majority of engagements have happened within 300 meters
>"sweet spot" for infantry on infantry engagements has been 100-250 meters
>most assault rifles and intermediate rounds can easily handle these ranges
>even CQB specific variants and specialty rifles can as well
>all while carrying more ammunition
>less recoil
>more ammunition being available
>and more versatile
>"shisznits hits the fan, you're gonna want to avoid any fight if there even is any"
If you have a rifle that can shoot at least 350 meters and has parts and ammo commonality where you live, you are perfectly fine for all contingencies that doesn't require concealing your intentions and weapons, in which case PDW's and pistols work just fine as well.
1/10 - You made me watch the video
>He’s switching to .308 because it’s more practical as a SHTF round
Because Rogue Government (typically captured by Reds) is the leading cause of unnatural death after the 20th century indefinitely.
>Just own multiple guns in different calibers lmao
yeah
>.308 because it’s more practical as a SHTF round than .300 blackout
.300 blackout was always a meme round. It always felt like a solution looking for a problem.
It's a large caliber bullet with very lethal ballistics within 150m that is designed to be shot suppressed out of a short barrel. There are plenty of use cases where that's extremely valuable. I know a ton of people who use it just for varmint and deer hunting. The suppressed subsonic rounds are nearly bb gun quiet so you don't have to run around with earpro. And it's a great .30 cal round for those , shooting within 200m that costs less than $1/rd.
>lethal ballistics within 150m that is designed to be shot suppressed out of a short barrel.
>I know a ton of people who use it just for varmint and deer hunting.
>$1/rd
Yeah, that still seems like they're going out of their own way to not just use another conventional cartridge for hunting.
What other conventional cartridges can shoot well through a short barrel (nice for using with a suppressor and staying at a manageable OAL), have a variety of subsonic options, and work with supers and subs in a semi auto? It’s a smaller niche for sure, but it’s good at it.
You can reload subs for a .308 or similar pretty easily but not everyone has reloading a reloading press. You are also stuck to a bolt action or lever action.
> probably won’t happen
In that situation, there's millions of angry, hungry and armed humans around locally. And zero deer to pretend hunt.
if God didn't want us to eat people, He wouldn't have made us out of meat
It means he is now feeling like a sniper man and is superior to people who buy 11 inch KACs. This guys channel is nothing but shilling. Not funny not educational just pure product shilling. Not objective either. He will make a 20 minute video about a broken weapon just to shill it as much as possible
Gotta get views somehow
basically his property is too big for 5.56, and hunting with 5.56 isn't reliable. That's the whole video
Unless his SHTF ROE is to murder anyone visibly armed on his side of the fence on sight even if they're all the way down at the end of his 1000 yard driveway, doesn't 6.5 Grendel acceptably handle both of those issues?
Your reminder that the longest confirmed legal shot that hit another person in the civilian world was 187 yards by a police sniper, and that the only people who have taken shots past that distance were mass shooters indiscriminately shooting people. The realities of confirming your target is actually a threat, not dealing with large organized groups that are much easier to see from a distance like the army does, and people having better things to do with their days than watch over a field for potential enemy incursion vastly limit the ranges that civilian engagements take place at.
>the longest confirmed legal shot that hit another person in the civilian world was 187 yards by a police sniper
It is really amazing to contemplate that the single all-time record, twice the distance as virtually any other instance, is basically "chip shot from a guy that's owned his SKS for two days" territory
Makes all of "the meta" look like a massive waste of time
Btw the same study with a 20-year nationwide data set that the 187 yard shot came from also revealed that the median shot by a police sniper was from 51 yards
Not the median shot from a patrolman with a Glock or an AR, literally only counting the marksmen with the high powered scopes
They debunked an older fudd rumor that was "the average police sniper engagement is 70 yards"
51 yards, fricking hell
How many police marksmen - actual scoped, static, police marksmen/snipers, not patrol carbines - have fired a shot at a bad dude in that study? I would have thought there'd be frick all?
Not at all questioning your point, I agree - I'm just really struggling to recall many if any?
>the median shot by a police sniper was from 51 yards
hon hon hon
>twice the distance as virtually any other instance,
There have been other long distance shots, such as that 183 yard shot by a cop with his patrol rifle in Washington, but otherwise yeah. Even .22lr can do that in practiced hands, and many submachine guns from when armies issued them were considered to be effective out to 200 meters.
Noguns here...since range isn't a big factor in the civilian context, is it wrong to favor power? I'm not defending this dude's gun, but is his caliber choice wise for human-on-human purposes?
It won't matter really. The trajectory for a 308 isn't much worse than a 5.56 55 or 62 grain. Especially within 300 meters. It's not until you hit longer range that you start to notice significant differences and by then the energy that a 5.56 is sending is very little compared to the 308. Overall, the 5.56 is always underwhelming compared to the 308 with no real advantages other than expense and availability. I have a 5.56 only because I figured there would always be ammo for it. Same reason to get a 9mm really.
Is x39/x51 wise for a person's first rifle?
Not that anon but 7.62x39 is a very good all purpose cartridge so yes
There's also lots of cheap, shitty ammo available for getting the basics of shooting down
Handloads can be pretty varied too.
It's a bit snappy with its recoil
It's not great at anything, but it has no significant downsides either.
Little experience with x51 so not commenting on that
Look at ammo prices, then consider that 7.62x39mm prices are likely going to jump a few cents per round in the coming months as the last of the Russian ammo stops being imported. .223 will likely see a slight bump in prices as well as a good portion of the cheapest ammo is from Russia, although no where near as much as 7.62x39mm. If you want a gun that's in one of those calibers and paying that much to shoot doesn't bother you, then go ahead.
no, both are annoyingly expensive. if you want a medium-caliber round for long range stuff, go 6.5 sneedmore, its actually pretty reasonable.
No. AKs, while cool as frick, are inferior and much more expensive nowadays. x39 prices are going to increase dramatically soon because the import ban’s effects will start hitting (1 more year of “normal” at most). Until the Ukraine war stops and some other eastern bloc country sets up a factory there won’t be much cheap steel cased x39.
7.62x51 has all the same problems but does give you a more viable long range gun. Ammo is more expensive, weighs more, and it will recoil even harder in heavier guns. Guns will cost more too. If you aren’t used to shooting get a AR in 5.56. They are popular for a reason.
To anyone saying “they are just common they aren’t good” or “their only common because it’s cheap”, those people are idiots. It became common because it’s good. If it always sucked it wouldn’t have been popular. They are cheap now but that’s relatively new. Pre-2016 they were fairly expensive. 2004-2014 they were expensive compared to other options. But they still became popular during that time because it’s good. Yes the 2016 era of panic buying and then being super cheap helped get them in everyone’s hands, but it was popular before that
>other than expense and availability.
And size/weight, and recoil, and the refinement of factory ammo, and
You’re purposely omitting
>lighter weight
>lighter recoil
>more ammo capacity
And purposely (or idiotically) equating tissue damage with raw ft lbs. 75/77gr 5.56 will do more to a person than a lot of .308 hunting loads. If you do use say a 110gr vmax in .308 you’ll certainly get more tissue damage but it’s overkill. A chest shot with either in the same place is killing them almost immediately. Going to .308 won’t turn a gutshot into an instant kill from the extra energy
And btw, I mean to say that the 5.56's advantages won't matter. The 7.62x51 makes more sense from a terminal effect perspective. Larger diameter and more energy means an enormous difference in cavitation patterns and exit wound sizes so a hit is always going to be radically different no matter where it hits. 5.56lets will argue that fragmentation will make up for it, but fragmentation is accidental. There's no real control over it and no reason to expect more lethality even if it were to occur. It's a coping mechanism basically.
So the 7.62x39 is a better choice too, if using a 123 grain or 154 grain hollow point boat tail. The heavier grain boat tail bullet has a better trajectory than the average x39 round and both have better expansion characteristics and exit wound sizes over the 5.56. The penetration of the average steel cased 123 grain (not HPBT) el cheapo x39 round is superior to the 62 grain 5.56 round. The x39 wins in all categories except when shooting past short-medium ranges. But then again, you should be using something else like a 308, 270, or 30-06 if you want to go further. And if you want to go further than 400-500 meters, just get a PRC and save yourself headaches at practice.
>So the 7.62x39 is a better choice too, if using a 123 grain or 154 grain hollow point boat tail.
Now I know you’re taking the piss
>The heavier grain boat tail bullet has a better trajectory than the average x39 round
Which is still dogshit
>and both have better expansion characteristics and exit wound sizes over the 5.56.
Both still have worse terminal performance than 5.56. Why did the Soviets switch to 5.45 if 7.62 is better? Why have we gotten 40 years of “poison bullet” myths about 5.45? Why were the SF guys who trialed the M16 in Vietnam so in love with it and heaping praise about it’s effectiveness?
No, actually.
5.56mm is particularly wicked at short ranges because of its hyper velocity.
It's why subtle things like a 12.5 or 14.5 inch barrel could see opposition end up with a clean .22 inch hole punched through them instead of their organs mangled to hamburger
The conventional wisdom was that terminally, .308 really starts to shine over .223 at 400+ yards, so that distance being mooted entirely hurts .308 more than .223
I have a suppressed Ruger Scout rifle with burris scout scope chambered in .350 legend.
It's probably similar to a .30-30 ballistically except I can get 250gr subsonics for it and have the rifle noise only broadcast out probably a little over an 1/8 of a mile as opposed to well over a mile. The 250gr subs also expand out to 150 yards and tumble. There's video of them cutting a 2" wide hole in ballistic gel and unlike .308 it's legal to hunt with in my state.
Small, light, easy to carry bolt action scout rifle, suppressed is just an incredibly pleasing rifle to shoot. I love it but would still prefer the AR for self defense.
.350L is underrated as frick.
>phenomenal short barrel performance down to like 8"
>big fukken bullets compared to .30 cal
>can load 90-147gr 9x19 bullets that explode harder than a 40gr .220 Swift
It's actually excellent for anything you'd need a long gun for. It can be a tiny HD gun, a game rifle, or a varmint gun.
>I have a suppressed Ruger Scout rifle with burris scout scope chambered in .350 legend.
>.350L is underrated as frick.
Wish Ruger would chamber the Mini-14 in .350 Legend. It would be excellent for short-range meat hunting and for self-defense. Fudds would buy a wood-stocked version.
They're still not 100% on the AR mags. There are lower capacity ones available but I'm not convinced even they are reliable. The scout rifle uses a AICS mag with an internal sleeve and is single stack. The mini-14 takes different proprietary magazines. If they could get it to feed better than an AR but still be a high cap double stack, that would be a selling advantage to some.
I like .300blk and .350lg for suppressing; .300blk for it's fast powder burns and .350lgnd because of the 250gr ammo and fact I already had a 9mm rated for it. Unlike myself, most people buy .350lgnd because of hunting laws. So, I'm not sure if a high capacity magazine would have any appeal or not. It would be interesting to see.
Knowing the specifics is interesting, but you can tell I already figured as much by my use of the word "murder" to describe the hypothetical shot in question—not that it would really matter in WROL, by definition.
To be fair a SHTF situation, or whatever you want to call it, would be unprecedented territory. Comparing it to existing examples wouldn’t make sense. If you have sight lines around your property for hundreds or yards and can identify someone at those distances, it’s not unreasonable to take the shot on a threat at that range.
The conversation on will that ever happen, should you take the shot, etc are a separate discussion.
>To be fair a SHTF situation, or whatever you want to call it, would be unprecedented territory. Comparing it to existing examples wouldn’t make sense.
Why doesn't it make sense? That anon gave reasons why it doesn't make sense for civilian engagement to happen at the ranges that military engagements do. The idea that SHTF scenarios are going to happen and make all kinds of engagements that don't make even sense in the civilian world happen because "but what if" is ridiculous.
>That anon gave reasons why it doesn't make sense for civilian engagement to happen at the ranges that military engagements do.
Because the entire civilian world would be different. You don’t shoot someone who’s potentially threatening today at distance because you can call the cops instead. I fully realize cops are useless, but try explaining to them why you shot someone 200 yards away for walking onto your property with a gun. even if you were correct and they were there to do you harm, legally you are fricked. In a SHTF situation there aren’t cops who would come to arrest you, there are courts to convict you. If there are, then things aren’t “that bad”. Today there ARENT wandering bandits or looters so why would you compare today to a situation that might have them? It doesn’t make sense.
Again you can argue if that’ll even happen, but if you go with the premise it does, using the current world as an analogy doesn’t make sense. The world would be entirely different.
He picked a sig spear .308 with a 13 inch barrel. He's not getting the range he desires at all. The video was just a big shill for the sig spear.
a 13 inch 308? guy might as well switch to x39 due to velocity loss
I was curious how close they would be an 150gr .308 is about 2500fps from a 13”. 168gr is 2300. So a step above 7.62x39 but not that much.
May we see the numbers for ×39 in the same bullet weights?
You can easily find them yourself. From a full size AK a 123gr is 2300fps and a 154gr is 2100fps. They don’t really make a 168gr x39
...so a 13" .308 with 150gr ammo is spitting like some kind of cursed 26" extendo-RPK with 154s, gotcha
Sure? If you want to look at just velocity. But a 13” .308 will still have a shitty trajectory. It will also recoil harder, have more muzzle flash, and hold less ammo than your hypothetical RPK
Military Industrial Complex
He’s come full circle back to 308.
Thats it. Thats the entire video.
Anyone that's gone back to 30 cal anything has gone back to it. The 5.56 army man larp is over, now we're slappin big shit.
>The [...] army man larp is over
Yeah, about that...
Who is “anyone”?
He used a special shampoo to clean the cum out of his beard because after a few days the maggots mature and fly away but the smell remains which drives away the gays he wants to suck on.
MAC shilling against 5.56 validates my belief in it
4 days late moron
>verification not required
lemme guess
>hey guys im an old fart and I will never ever see combat or anything close to what could be called that and thats why I will be switching over to [CURRENT MEME ROUND] that fullfills this super specific niche that I will never be in 🙂
bingo
The opposite,
>doesn't expect but understands it can happen in SHTF.
>More focused on hunting in high wind.
>.308
/thread.
Just like when all those larpers talk about what they a "currently using" for home defense, as if they are actively engaging in real time live home defense operations on a regular basis and not just "prepping" for some scenario that may (probably never) actually ever happen.
>yeah, I had three home invasions last month, and I found that 9mm didn't reliably put down the intruders, so this month I'm trying .357 Sig
I'm sure there's somewhere in the US where that level of crime is realistic but cutting short the careers of that many young scholars wouldn't get you arrested.
30 cal chads just keep winning
>MAC
>winning
Lmao enjoy your $8k not-Dragunovs. Oh wait you came to this board during the war, you don’t know about that
Black person stole mine from pre-order. Frick Mac.
im sorry bro
hopefully there will be more
lel I forgot about the SVD thing. I stopped following this guy after he started shilling so hard for the Tavor, but the $8000 SVDs from Hungary with questionable markings just reaffirmed my distrust of this guy. Wasn’t there evidence that these rifles may have actually been from Russia and had been remarked as Hungarian or something to evade the import restrictions? Or am I getting it co fused with some other E celeb bullshit?
They were Russian, 100%. My friend lived outside Budapest in a village on the Danube. He went by what constitutes "FEG" these days and the guys there were joking about it. I posted pics in the threads back then. They showed him some Hi-power clones and some sort of AK-looking subgun that the Hun police apparently hate.
Here's one of his vizslas playing in the Duna for a little sauce
why is there an offing in the middle of the water like an horizon, digital camera frickery?
also shame how in america it is nearly impossible to find a healthy line of viszlas without spending $4000+
The theory was they were made using russian parts that had russian proofing marks on them, which makes sense. I think FEG genuinely put them together for the most part, possibly from partly assembled rifles and they just stamped FEG and proper markings on it.
>mad
>at 30 caliber cartridges
his IWI commercial during the mikhail kalashnikov tribute video is what rustled my jimmies.
when i win the powerball, I will investing in a gunmaker to build them here as a tax dodge
vizslas are such damn good dogs. old neighbor had one. that dog could find a lost kid like he had satellite linkups and thermals. he could eat some smoked scraps we would make for him till he would shit like a hobo at a piano recital.
your mom sucks asners shitbox hard.
>WHATTHEYTOOKFROMUS.JPG
FIRST RIFLE should be a Ruger 10/22 or Marlin 60. go burn through bricks of .22lr and learn the tao of it.
Obvious sig shilling aside, 30 cal chads still winning
>the world's biggest boomer (literally), is coming out in support of range overmatch
How can something be so over and yet, simultaneously, not even begun?
13lbs fricking kek. the US MIC has lost it's mind.
either that or weapons acquisitions is just a tick-tock cycle between overmatch and light weight. maybe the next rifle after ngsw will go even lighter than m4
.221 fireball/.220 swift will have its day
this image is moronic because it doesn't include the suppressor on the M4, which is now standard issue and life saving equipment. The difference is like 2 lbs with it.
you realize our grandfathers used guns that weighed this much, and managed to win two world wars, while being shorter and not working out ever? Modern soldiers are such massive fricking pussies, holy frick. An extra 2 pounds and it's the end of the fricking world, boo hoo. Oh no, my 2 pound extra gun has a computer in it that can first hit kill people 400 yards away, how awful and terrible! Oh no, I'm forced to use a suppressor that will save my life by making me harder to detect! woe is me. fricking homosexuals
>that can first hit kill a guy 400 yards away
>obviously once all his buddies take cover I'm right back to delivering suppressing fire against them until the JDAM I ordered gets delivered, but now I have to do it with half as much ammo
>this sucks
The 6.8 penetrates cover better, and it's more like 2/3ds of the ammo. Depends on how you do supressing fire, if they're going to make one guy run the box mag variant, etc.
It's not too much of a difference, but if you're destroying or penetrating cover versus plinking off it, it might make all that much more difference, you also get longer range.
Thats ignoring all the extra gear which is like 40 pounds total, 50 with gun. The average grunts battle rattle weighs more than a knights plate armor
>The average grunts battle rattle weighs more than a knights plate armor
And it's disproportionately encumbering since it's not evenly-distributed over his entire body, and the average grunt is probably weaker than the average knight who could afford full plate since he doesn't eat as well.
You forgot to mention that backpack back then was 10 times lighter smart, and don't even think about body armor
>you realize our grandfathers used guns that weighed this much, and managed to win two world wars,
Now post the weight of their packs with gear vs a modern load out
>M4A1 = 6.36lb
That's fricking wrong though. The M4A1 already weighs almost 8 lbs with just the gun, empty mag, sling, BUIS, and a pistol grip.
https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Equipment-Portfolio/Project-Manager-Soldier-Lethality-Portfolio/M4-M4A1-Carbine/
Army says it's 7lbs with a loaded magazine. Cope
This source from the Army says 7.74 lbs with the accessories I mentioned.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140903121037/http://www.army.mil/article/126553/Beefier_carbines_en_route_to_Soldiers/
God its so fugly. It looks like some Bioshock dev tried to make a unnecessarily bulbous Art Deco gun
I actually kinda love the xm8, only thing is the scope seems impractical as frick, and you could probably design a better lighter ACOG for it that'd cut a pound off, and like
says, it's more like 11 pounds versus 13.5, so cutting a pound here would be better, and leave it at a 1.5 lb difference.
They really ought to black that thing though, looks fugly in tan.
>Op is a homosexual
>youtube is for homosexuals
>MAC is peak homosexualry
We're in the homosexual ouroboros. Be careful, for the gay may come for you.
>has never been in rifle combat
>calibers don't make sense to him
>his own linkedin admits to being a social media personality
These guys can't make money than you for doing nothing if you don't watch their videos. There are actual trenches full of dead russians who ate 5.56 to death.
In my made up scenario 556 is no good and I will no longer use it in my made up scenarios.
Yeah, new bullets came out, old bullets don't work anymore.
Oh no, not a israeli shill pimping shit sewers latest goyslop! My rifles are useless!
gonna ditch all my 5.56 into Mac's head at 2500fps
2500 fps? What kinda pathetic shit is that?
10" barrel, probably
It's the speed of 5.56mm out of a 10 inch barrel.
What’s he switching to now, maybe 7.62x54R with his SVDs?
Cokeman was right!
.30 prc master race here
>I've never participated in a rifle competition: the video.
MAC is the type of shill whose next video would be about how 5.56 is the supreme rifle round, and nothing can top it if Sig or some other fricking company paid him enough. Shill's gotta shill after all.
>"He's switching to .308"
This Black person shill has like 6 billion guns what the frick does that even mean lmao.
he's given up on YouTube superstardom and is liquidating all of his firearms-related assets except for .308 ammo and his Sig Spear to focus on becoming ungovernable and surviving the coming collapse
Why don’t you just own gun in approximately effective against mammal caliber?
Nobody makes a 9.3×62mm or .35 Whelen gas gun and it'd be unreasonably heavy and expensive for self-defense use even if they did.
Sure, but what about Gun? Gun is chambered in ammunition
why? because he's a israelite and will only shoot someone in the back at close range with his 300 memeout. Or what other dumbass excuse this homosexual b***h has to come up with.
Knew there was a reason I blocked his YouTube channel about 2 years ago. He's an assclown shill of the israelite-y-est order.
haven't watched a single video by this fraud since the svd debacle and i'm not about to start
QRD on svd habbening? I dont know who this guy is but I like svd.
a bunch of russaboos on akforums got 100 importable hungarian svds (which may or may not have actually been russian) made with the intention of them all being sold to an interest list that had been around for years. they were going to be sold essentially for cost. tim from military arms channel swoops in and buys all the svds from the importer out from under everyone and jacks up the price by thousands and sells them on gunbroker and/or his patreon crowd and guntuber e-celebs. it was a huge scandal as tim was a generally well liked guy in the online gun community up to that point and he acted like a complete dick to anyone who called out his blatant profiteering. i along with many others stopped following him completely because of it so i don't know what the final disposition was of all the svds but a lot of people got screwed and everyone else was left with a bad taste in their mouths
Close, the now CEO of B&Ts other company is the reason for screwing over Mac.
who cares about mac being screwed over
Well you in turn got screwed as well, just trying to correct history because the real story rarely gets mentioned
i dont see an issue here
I mean, technically an interest list or forum group buy doesn't constitute a contract and those rifles were technically the importer's to sell to whomever they saw fit—nobody involved did anything...illegal (probably), but I don't see how you can view "buying a bunch of guns out from under the people they were imported for so you can flip them" as tolerable behavior on his part.
Trident Rifles/B&T CEO imported them and changed their mind last minute
Bad business practices
israelite detected
>*hand rubbing intensifies*
>macattack is now shilling 308
>now all the normies will talk about 308
>now it'll get memed on, overbought, and raved about
i liked it better when nobody talked about 308
>will finally be able to find 5.56 at Academy for less than a dollar fiddy a round
In today’s ass-tier market the proper round in the one you can easily get for cheap. The manufacturers are maxed out but they DON’T WANT to gamble on opening new production in case the current ammo run is due to yet another fake gun control scare. Also if gun control seems to be on the horizon that’ll also spook them. If the economy was going great that’s be different, but when it’s bearish nobody wants to invest into anything less than a sure thing.
Also the cutoff of Russian steel cased imports means there's more demand for the local brass stuff.
How come muh SHTF hunting scenarios always focuses solely on deer, as if no other game exists? Insisting that your rifle be good enough for taking the rare 300 yard shot on deer is going to result in being massively overgunned for smaller animals and destroying a lot of the meat.
Because focusing on deer justifies centralizing your SHTF loadout around a battle rifle, using the same weight budget for a 5.56 gun and a 3 lb squirrel rifle, or building a dovecote in your backyard, or keeping goats or chickens or other livestock that turn grass and bugs into food, or whatever else—doesn't.
Because tactigays hate having to admit that the most useful long guns for a civilian are shotguns and .22 rifles
you can take a deer within 100 yards with a .410 slug.
You can but it’s less than ideal
Up until I come across their house
We know. The debate now isn't 5.56 or X, it's .308 or .277 Fury. If .277 Fury actually takes off then it has some more perks in that contest, but for now .308 isn't going anywhere since it'll always be a popular hunting round and is still a NATO round, and gives all the performance you can desire.
For those still wanting to run lighter intermediates, the debate is 7.62x39 or .300blk. These are also great short barrel or suppressed platforms, which make sense for CQB/HD platforms. So intermediates still have a place, but 5.56 is being phased out as competition. There just isn't any justification left to keep it since the military isn't even pretending it's good anymore.
>There just isn't any justification left to keep it since the military isn't even pretending it's good anymore.
Except that the US military will still be using it for many years, and it is ALSO a NATO round. Not to mention that there are literally about 100 million rifles chambered for it in existence in America alone, and more being sold every day. 5.56 isn't going anywhere, homosexual.
It's inferior despite its popularity, most people are moronic and don't make good choices.
>it just is okay!
Does 6.5 Cheedmoor factor in?
>Does 6.5 Cheedmoor factor in?
Ballistically superior .308 (at least in terms of DMR/SAPR/SASS use) that is actually available right now unlike .277 Fury. Downsides are 6.5 burns out barrels a lot faster than .308 and is still a bit less common than .308. Thanks to PRS there are a lot of good factory match grade 6.5 loads available though. The shorter barrel length that .277 Fury allows for while still maintaining good ballistic performance seems really compelling on paper if it ever becomes readily available. I still don't see either replacing 556 anytime soon.
.308 is cheaper, more common, there's tons of rifles chambered in it to choose from, and it's bigger. In a few years they'll shrink 6.5 down even more and claim it's superior because it's flatter shooting, like no shit a lighter round is flatter shooting, that's why we shrunk 30-06 to .308, I don't want it shrunken any further.
>In a few years they'll shrink 6.5 down even more and claim it's superior because it's flatter shooting,
That has already been done. 6mm cartridges are quite popular in PRS/NRL circles. The idea is not even new .243 Winchester has been around for a long time. I doubt the 6mm cartridges will get as popular as 6.5 Creedmoor has already gone mainstream and non competition shooters wont want to switch again.
>like no shit a lighter round is flatter shooting, that's why we shrunk 30-06 to .308, I don't want it shrunken any further.
what? They are the same caliber and similar common bullet weights. 30-06 just has a bit more case capacity. They shrunk the 30-06 for size reasons not performance.
From the broscience I heard, 30-06 hit harder but had more bullet drop at range, I assume because of heavier bullet weight. .308 is flatter shooting while still retaining good punch. Since someone brought up 6.5CM, it's flatter shooting but with less punch/barrier penetration.
Main reason I go with .308 isn't even the goldilocks zone of full calibers, but because there's such a variety of rifles to choose from and loadings to choose from. You can run a customized setup with specialized ammo, or just some old robust battle rifle that's still in service in some countries with surplus ammo.
>There just isn't any justification left to keep it since the military isn't even pretending it's good anymore.
Nice bait. Did humans get a level up I didn’t hear about? Is 5.56 now no lethal after decades of killing
The image alone is enough for me to know you should be made fun of
Ditching .308... .for 30-06 baby let's go
>best hunting round ever devised
>objectively better vs people
>need a modern semi auto? hcar
verification not required
Why would anyone give a frick what MAC thinks? He's a genuinely moronic shill scammer. I guarantee CopperCustoms™ just got in some big shipment of expensive 308s, so that's what he's 'switching to' this week, until they get in a new shipment of 300 blackout rifles, then he'll make a new video called, 'I was wrong about 300 blackout' or some bullshit. He's a conman, simple as.
Now that I think about it, Mac is way too much of a moody teenage girl to ever admit to being wrong about anything.
He'll probably call the video, 'The ULTIMATE SHTF rifle: greatest self defense caliber EVER' or something similarly clickbaity.
I remember him shitting on the Glock 48 and 43X only to call the 43X an excellent carry pistol lol
D r a g u n o v
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your goal should be to avoid combat, not actively seeking it.
I highly doubt you’d ever run into a situation where you need 10 fricking mags on your body
>E-shill patreon panhandling grifter scumbag dual citizens opinion is against 5.56
5.56 confirmed good.
why is the carbine meme just lorem ipsum instead of the Navy Seal copypasta
Modern plate carriers stop 5.56 though
Plate carriers are made out of cordura, they don’t stop anything.
.30-30 chads, we can't stop winning.
Yeah well it's an old varmint round. What can expect? It's also pretty shit for hunting
Uh oh Mac your Israeli masters won't like that.
wdym
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022994832
Bout time people started figuring this out.
5.56 is only "good" if you can fire full-auto.
Otherwise, it's just a varmint round.
556 will forever be relevant. maybe not in combat scenarios but for sure as a cheap plinking round
Battle rifles are heavy enough that you could probably carry a lightweight AR and a normal hunting rifle for the same weight.
>I got sent a 6000 dollar rifle by Swiss rail barons and I'm a rich fudd who basically only hunts durr
You could have made this a 'Youtube short' like all the cool kids dude.
Also NIG Queer confirmed as the fudd rifle of the future now that Muh Daddeh's Em Wun is much harder to get.
>5.56lets will argue that fragmentation will make up for it, but fragmentation is accidental. There's no real control over it and no reason to expect more lethality even if it were to occur. It's a coping mechanism basically.
Hi moron nogunz. There are bullets which are specifically designed to fragment for various uses such as hunting to cause more damage and this is known to be effective.
6mm ARC or another developed cartridge similar to it will eventually make 5.56 obsolescent once .277 eventually turns out to be a failure but until then 5.56 is still preferable
let me know when hes going to make a video that isnt shilling directly for his wallet.
his disrespectful Mikhail kalashnikov "tribute video" that was an IWI infomercial. should have him banned from guns.
What tells me MAC is right on this topic is the absolute seething from 5.56 gays. It’s a literal meme round
if he was saying he was ditching 5.56 because .300 BLK exists he might have had a point, but his point is literally 'get fukt I have a 6000 dollar .308 durr gun it's all I need'
Yes it’s everyone else who is wrong. Not the actual paid shill picking a 13” .308 in a new rifle. If he went with a 18 or 20” he has a point. 13” is obviously Sigger shilling
>pointing out the guy is a shill is seething
You're coping as hard as adam22
Someone post the picture of him simping for some e-girl
mac finally catching up to what we knew in the nutnfancy project ten years ago
Can you elaborate on that? My impression of TNP is vary close to "ouncegayging for ouncegayging's sake"; what POU would realistically call for .308 in this day and age?
>Watching MAC after his fricking over SVD buyers
I don't think MAC has ever said anything I agree with. He's like the personification of the Dunning Kruger effect.
I have noticed that all of these gun youtubers know frick all about ballistics and bullet designs. this gay is talking about 5.56 as if you can only ever use m193 or other dogshit like that, as if there aren't modern expanding barrier blind loads that have extremely consistent performance.
same deal with garand queer, his latest video about barrel lengths he talks about muh fragmentation then makes a passing reference to different bullets solely by weight
>62gr and 77gr bullets are great blah blah blah
77gr what dumbass? SMKs? the weight alone tells you nothing.
The vast majority of people, and a frighteningly large percentage of gun owners don't even know what a grain is or what it means, just morebiggerer=morebetterer. Talk of external and terminal ballistics may as well be quantum mechanics to them.
I used to kind of like the guy back when he first started. He actually gave some decent opinions on guns most people could afford. Gradually I began to dislike him and stopped watching completely when he started dick riding the Tavor.
It's sad to see how virtually every "guntuber" has become a soulless shill over the years.
I’m a big fan of .308 and want to get into .300 BLK but this guy is nothing but an advertisement for Sig.
I was always a proponent of .308 WINchester but whatever.
Realistically the true shtf rifle is a single shot 308 with an undermounted 13in 556 ar
5.56 AR w/ underbarrel T/C Encore in .308
and a figure eight–shaped can that's attached to both barrels somehow
battle rifle in .22 Creedmoor
really laughable how this clown talks about hunting for meat to feed his family because of rising food prices when he is a literal millionaire.
buddy if it's getting so hard to put food on the table maybe sell some of the hundreds of expensive firearms you own lmao, that will keep your family fed a lot longer than a few deer.
>muh shtf, muh looting parts and ammo like in muh video games
just buy a stockpile of 5k+ rounds and sit on it, if you need to shoot more than that in the SHTFantasy you are a dead man anyway, how many people walk away from literally dozens of firefights.
same for parts. buy 20 gas tubes, they are dirt cheap, buy 5 bolts, buy 100 magazines, buy some spare barrels. All of this shit is easy to acquire and can sit on the shelf indefinitely. No need to pretend that you are going to loot corpses like some bethesda game.
>muh food, muh huntin' and fishin' in shtf
Raw wheat grain has a shelf life measured in decades and costs pennies per pound. Buy a pallet of raw wheat and put it in airtight buckets somewhere cool and dark. humans have used grain reserves to survive famines since literally ancient times. congrats you now have enough food reserve to survive a fricking comet striking the earth. as an added bonus learning how to make sourdough bread is a much more valuable life skill than larping as a navy seal with 10k+ worth of gear.
>buy 20 gas tubes
Why? Who has ever broken a gas tube and if so how? I'd say you're far better off buying extractors and springs, lots of springs.
Who cares? Buy two dozen gas tubes, buy a dozen extra BCGs—frick it, buy some complete extra guns
I am unaware of a single instance of someone needing a new gas tube, certainly not first hand. Undoubtedly there is some anecdote out there. I just think it's a weird example and yeah, it would make more sense to just buy 3 of the same gun. That way you can share or if one breaks, suddenly you have an entire gun worth of spare parts, minus the 1 part that is.
..but yes food and potable water is way more important. Personally, I have 5 gallon bucket full of dried rice, beans and some cans of spam. Why spam? Because I don't like it. I intentionally stocked food I don't like.
...but then one day, I hadn't bought any groceries and I was hungry but it was late. So I broke down and opened up the SPAM, sliced and fried it. Frick me, it was pretty good. Now I like spam but still try not to eat it.
>I am unaware of a single instance of someone needing a new gas tube, certainly not first hand. Undoubtedly there is some anecdote out there.
you are right that it's a ridiculous concern for a civilian. the only reasonable case for gas tube failure is when firing a lot of full auto.
but even in that case, the gas tube being the weak point is actually a feature not a bug, because it acts like a sacrificial fuse that spares the barrel. The gas tube will blow before the barrel starts warping from extreme heat and potentially explodes, something that can technically happen to AKs. Of course this entire hypothetical is absurd because even in a military context you would basically never encounter a scenario that would require or even allow you to put out that much full auto fire from a rifle.
Eat a good meal then go out in the field and before you get hungry again eat another cold can of spam with a spoon to go back to hating it.
But yeah shtf is just nornal disaster preparedness with an excuse to buy more toys. I like having a good amount of canned food so I don't have to shop as much and just cycling through the cans putting the newest in the back. If you cut range time and only shoot to hunt and potential ammo use tanks even a few hundred rounds of .308 would probably be fine. Kinda like how 99% of the ammo shot in afghanistan was on firing ranges hopefully you wouldn't be plinking in your backyard if your favored disaster strikes. idk just seems like most people especially guntubers building "offensive" shtf setups just call it as a politically correct version of booging or again just want an excuse I do admit thermals and the like are neat not that I'll ever be able to justify them with kids in the future plans.
>cold can of spam with a spoon to go back to hating it.
Uh, yeah that might do it, not gonna try.
I mentioned that because I saw a moron in the comments on the mac vid saying that an AR is a bad choice for MUH SHTF because gas tubes are supposedly weak and you need a AK because pistons don't break.
The point is that all of these replacement parts are cheap so if you are so 'concerned' about doing repairs in the apocalypse that you are using it as an excuse to buy a new toy maybe consider just buying replacement parts instead.
Fr fr, surely anyone who's been through an election year or two understands by now that the only "readily available ammo/parts" are the ones you already have on hand before shit happens
NATO caliber of choice. Does fine as in you shot mf, mf drops. High capacity, low recoil.
But we need people to consooooom the new shit. Always the same story.
I’d put less stock in the “nato caliber of choice” and more in the “it’s been successfully killing people for 60 years”. But the conclusion is the same
Is that the same boomer who tries to post memes and current events?
Who the hell wants to live in post-collape. Just meme it till the end and be spiritually fit with Jesus.
Stop worrying so much about calibers and worry about your sins. Amen
can't wait for the military to find out the hard way (again) why battle rifles are impractical and overcorrect in the other direction to something even more moronic like .17-.223
The blessed timeline where the G11 returns
>ditching the poodle shooter
why has it taken him this long?