I found a box of .357 that my grandfather loaded while cleaning out his stuff a few weeks ago.
> Load: 16.0gr Blue Dot, 110gr JHP
I shot it off this afternoon out of my 4" GP100. The beachball sized fireball coming out of the muzzle and teeth rattling concussion had the Glock+red dot shooting Zoomers scattering and ducking for cover. So yes, .357 Magnum is still relevant today. Thanks Grandpa.
if they didn't want you to use the whole cylinder, they shouldn't have made it so big.
4 months ago
Anonymous
it's so big because of the black powder heritage. you can fill it with slower burning powder.
4 months ago
Anonymous
357mag was never BP, 38 was, but they made it EVEN BIGGER, which is what makes 357 so much better than 38.
4 months ago
Anonymous
.357 is longer than .38 only to prevent chambering the former in the latter. not because it needs more powder room. they started wirh an oversized black powder case, made it a bit longer for incompatability reasons and ended up with an oversized case at higher pressure.
4 months ago
Anonymous
shut up, nerd
4 months ago
Anonymous
Exactly, a redhawk is a big girl and will digest whatever load you feed her.
I keep seeing moronic posts like this all over /k/, and I can't help but think it's a coordinated effort by someone to destroy guns and/or gunowners through misinformation. It's always presented like this, like doing something moronic is the cool, manly thing to do.
Like, it's not the normal trolling and shitposting. Every one of these posts feels different than that.
1.4gr of Blue dot over max is probably 8,000psi more. Around where 357 Mag used to be loaded for most of its existence. Loading manuals are quite conservative and frankly there doesn't exist loading data for every bullet. Often the ceiling for a particular cartridge isn't what SAAMI says it is, but rather what a particular model of gun will reliably digest.
Loading off book is based if you know what the frick you're doing.
What happens if I were to continually shoot lever action .357 in a revolver?
I shot Barnes 180 grain out of my Taurus 605 (to be fair I didnt know any better at the time) and it was a load of fun, but I don't know if it'd be risky to do it again.
As long as it isn’t one of the scandium air weight snubnoses it’ll probably be fine. Might not perform as well as you like though, some of the difference between them is based on powder burn rates taking advantage of the longer barrel for slower burning powder. The contender only loads are generally spicier though.
That and 357 Mag was cucked big time with the CUP to PSI change SAAMI made 30 some years ago. Pressures for old 357 factory ammo was in the low-mid 40,000psi range.
This can be particularly true depending on the powder and bullet combination.
Some powder/bullet manufacturers don't take a bullet combination to SAAMI max, but rather they'll stop when they feel the bullet has stopped being performant.
Yes. Your picture is caused by people using the wrong powder accidentally. To pop a cylinder takes a ludicrous amount of pressure, north of 70,000psi and some guns north of 100,000psi.
S&W TRR8
Holds 8 357
Lighter and more effective than a 1911. I’m a 10mm man myself but 357 is a tad better if ya care enough to loose the capacity. Honestly it’s going out but just for fun to carry it definitely has a place for me.
>that image
You do know, that 10mm has virtually same OAL as .45ACP and .460 Rowland (32.0mm vs 32.4)?
Don't you?
Why being disingenuous, unless you want to out self as butthurt over the fact, that 10mm took off, while your meme .460 never will?
>10mm is the future
Standard 10mm is substantially weaker than what its original specs were. To get the 10mm performance you are alluding to you have to buy expensive specialized ammo.
Standard 357 mag is also weaker than it used to be so you have to do the same.
But standard 357 mag is stronger than standard 10mm.
Original spec 10mm is stronger than original spec 357 mag.
10mm is only worth if you are getting the original spec ammo
you can get this ammo for $0.39/rd.
1200 fps from a Delta Elite.
>but norma is still a bit more powerful!
uh, so? when did "balls to the walls" become the bare minimum? do you ever apply this standard to other cartridges?
for comparison: wikiarms lists this for the same $0.39/rd.
says 230 gr at 837 fps (didn't find real world data, so probably a bit overstated) for 358 ft*lbf, compared to 576 ft*lbf of the 10mm of the same product line.
>when did "balls to the walls" become the bare minimum?
It's 10mm. That's what people want it for. If they wanted less they would just get .40. >magtech
>It's 10mm. That's what people want it for. If they wanted less they would just get .40.
nta but this is fricking moronic. There are two broad buckets for ammo: EDC/hunting and training. For the former cost basically doesn't matter, can literally be dollars per round and still be fine if the performance justifies it, because you're using at most a few boxes worth per year to check it works and your zero, or if you ever actually NEED to shoot it could be $50/rnd and you'd still cheerfully blaze away to save your life.
For training it's almost entirely about cost, so if it's weaker that's fine. It only matters that good stuff is available.
Cartridge defines the maximum performance you can get out of the best load. But you don't need to use that for paper, so how cheap the cheapest is still matters.
Exactly. There's no problem with training 10mm loaded to 40 power. Are we just going to pretend everyone isn't shooting weak ass 115gr 9mm at the range too? Or what about the weak ass bottom of the barrel 55g steel case wolf? It so weak properly gassed ARs can have a hard time cycling it. The power matters for the real loads.
I get 1215 from my case of mag tech out of my smith 2.0, 4/10ths barrel length difference and within the delta of round to round so I would certainly confirm your numbers
Lmao yeah so many new 10mms out.
Yes? There’s probably over two dozen factory 10mm on the market right now, the last year seeing at least two.
Yeah, you’re right that 10mm is so weak you can use most existing designs for it, while .357mag typically needs a boutique design to handle it’s power, like the Desert Eagle.
>Standard 357 mag is also weaker than it used to be so you have to do the same.
The modern understanding of terminal ballistics is that for every bullet grain there is a velocity (lower for higher bullet grains, and higher for smaller ones) below which flesh will simply absorb the energy causing it to stretch as heat and snap back into place, leaving a hole the bullet's diameter.
The issue is that the acceleration needed to reach that velocity in just the six or less inches of barrel a pistol will have will cause such recoil that it becomes impractical for serious use. So the only power a pistol bullet actually needs is that which is required to both fully penetrate 90% of the way through your target and fully expand a hollow point.
Any more energy below that magic number is wasted and adds needless muzzle flip.
That's why standard magnum rounds have gotten "weaker". You only need the more energetic ones when you need to punch through wildlife.
It's good, but it's really nothing special in 2024. Being "only" twice as powerful as 9mm isn't much of an achievement when you can get something like .460 Rowland or .40 Super in a smaller, higher capacity semi.
It’s even more practical to have a 11 shot .357 mag Desert Eagle conversion barrel that can upgrade to .44mag or .50AE, and doesn’t have a Hillary hole.
.357mag is still a great cartridge because of its versatility. No other chambering can take anything from hare on up to bear. It can be a plinking load weak enough to kill small game or bubba's spicy hot handload. It's not unique to .357mag of course since (e.g.) .44mag has the same relationship with .44spl but I think it's too big to be truly versatile.
Modern 357 you find in stores is about as powerful as 40sw.
This will never not bother me.
Good for underwood and Buffalo bore making something worthwhile though. With those loads it's still nice.
I agree that more companies should make hotloaded .357, but for many .357 shooters it isn't an issue. .357 is probably one of if not the most reloaded/ handloaded cartidges out there. Most people who shoot it are more than happy to just load their own pisshots, rather than pay extra for some hot factory loads
>Is there any place for it in this modern world bros?
Of course, Now that 41 magnum is dead the only viable options for normal people are .38special/.357magnum or .44 magnum. besides those cartridges are weirdos buying stuff like a 9mm revolvers or people who hunt with revolvers and insist on .475 linebaugh, .454 casull, .460 S&W, .500 magnum, etc
>not accounting for frame size diff
its not the same size for the same capacity or same weight. Also 9x25 is like 100fps better than .357 sig with the same bbl length until you hit like 9" +. .357 sig just makes more sense for a carry caliber to the discerning memelord
>hunting in straight wall states out of a levergat >same levergat can be used for pests with 38 specials (subsonic by default btw) >357 levergat loaded with snakeshot and wadcutters to hunt squirrels (actualy very fun)
357/38 is pretty versatile anon, jack of all trades master of none but I personally like to own few guns I shoot a lot than to own a lot of guns I shoot very little each.
yes
sure, in my GP100.
Frick ya mudda
Respect OG
Yes, your anus.
I found a box of .357 that my grandfather loaded while cleaning out his stuff a few weeks ago.
> Load: 16.0gr Blue Dot, 110gr JHP
I shot it off this afternoon out of my 4" GP100. The beachball sized fireball coming out of the muzzle and teeth rattling concussion had the Glock+red dot shooting Zoomers scattering and ducking for cover. So yes, .357 Magnum is still relevant today. Thanks Grandpa.
Kudos to gramps.. based “frick the book” loader
This is the rifle load listing, but the handgun and contender max powder amount for blue dot is 14.6 grain.. gramps has more balls than Lyman…
Which edition of Lyman is it?
50th
No dice, largest grain weight the 50th version lists is a 204 grain in the contender only section.
It's good, no book would ever publish a load that's 50% over SAAMI pressure. This is effectively a 353 Casull load.
if they didn't want you to use the whole cylinder, they shouldn't have made it so big.
it's so big because of the black powder heritage. you can fill it with slower burning powder.
357mag was never BP, 38 was, but they made it EVEN BIGGER, which is what makes 357 so much better than 38.
.357 is longer than .38 only to prevent chambering the former in the latter. not because it needs more powder room. they started wirh an oversized black powder case, made it a bit longer for incompatability reasons and ended up with an oversized case at higher pressure.
shut up, nerd
Exactly, a redhawk is a big girl and will digest whatever load you feed her.
Hey man, where's that 210gr boolit over 18gr of H110 I stuffed in a 357 case listed?
That sucker has gotta be in that book somewhere.
I keep seeing moronic posts like this all over /k/, and I can't help but think it's a coordinated effort by someone to destroy guns and/or gunowners through misinformation. It's always presented like this, like doing something moronic is the cool, manly thing to do.
Like, it's not the normal trolling and shitposting. Every one of these posts feels different than that.
1.4gr of Blue dot over max is probably 8,000psi more. Around where 357 Mag used to be loaded for most of its existence. Loading manuals are quite conservative and frankly there doesn't exist loading data for every bullet. Often the ceiling for a particular cartridge isn't what SAAMI says it is, but rather what a particular model of gun will reliably digest.
Loading off book is based if you know what the frick you're doing.
more FPS number is more gooder, unironically.
It depends on what your loading for. I’d trust that dudes grandpas reloads in my Blackhawk. Not sure I’d run them consistently in a scandium smith…
What happens if I were to continually shoot lever action .357 in a revolver?
I shot Barnes 180 grain out of my Taurus 605 (to be fair I didnt know any better at the time) and it was a load of fun, but I don't know if it'd be risky to do it again.
you'll spend more money than if you shot cheaper ammo out of the revolver. the gun won't give a shit
As long as it isn’t one of the scandium air weight snubnoses it’ll probably be fine. Might not perform as well as you like though, some of the difference between them is based on powder burn rates taking advantage of the longer barrel for slower burning powder. The contender only loads are generally spicier though.
I've found that most book max loads are actually about 10% below an actual max load, because liability reasons, etc...
That and 357 Mag was cucked big time with the CUP to PSI change SAAMI made 30 some years ago. Pressures for old 357 factory ammo was in the low-mid 40,000psi range.
Honestly I’m surprised it’s only 10%…
It's way more than 10%. 10% barely covers lot variance.
This can be particularly true depending on the powder and bullet combination.
Some powder/bullet manufacturers don't take a bullet combination to SAAMI max, but rather they'll stop when they feel the bullet has stopped being performant.
Is that safe?
Yes. Your picture is caused by people using the wrong powder accidentally. To pop a cylinder takes a ludicrous amount of pressure, north of 70,000psi and some guns north of 100,000psi.
>gramps pissin hot loads
It’s great out of a lever gun for medium game
in revolvers or leverguns chambered in .357? I mean, it didnt suddenly just stop putting holes in things
Frick ya mudda
S&W TRR8
Holds 8 357
Lighter and more effective than a 1911. I’m a 10mm man myself but 357 is a tad better if ya care enough to loose the capacity. Honestly it’s going out but just for fun to carry it definitely has a place for me.
Also has a moronic recoil shield that has to be replaced every 10 boxes of ammo or it fails and your gun gets cut in half.
.357 Magnum kills frickers dead, no questions asked, no quarter given, to 100 yards, point blank, now, just as it did in 1935.
Sorry bud, but the future is 10mm.
Lmao yeah so many new 10mms out.
.460 rowland will be what 10mm wishes it could be. Make way for the true king of auto magnums post 10mm-lavaituber wave.
forever boutique.
>that image
You do know, that 10mm has virtually same OAL as .45ACP and .460 Rowland (32.0mm vs 32.4)?
Don't you?
Why being disingenuous, unless you want to out self as butthurt over the fact, that 10mm took off, while your meme .460 never will?
>10mm is the future
Standard 10mm is substantially weaker than what its original specs were. To get the 10mm performance you are alluding to you have to buy expensive specialized ammo.
Standard 357 mag is also weaker than it used to be so you have to do the same.
But standard 357 mag is stronger than standard 10mm.
Original spec 10mm is stronger than original spec 357 mag.
10mm is only worth if you are getting the original spec ammo
you can get this ammo for $0.39/rd.
1200 fps from a Delta Elite.
>but norma is still a bit more powerful!
uh, so? when did "balls to the walls" become the bare minimum? do you ever apply this standard to other cartridges?
for comparison: wikiarms lists this for the same $0.39/rd.
says 230 gr at 837 fps (didn't find real world data, so probably a bit overstated) for 358 ft*lbf, compared to 576 ft*lbf of the 10mm of the same product line.
>when did "balls to the walls" become the bare minimum?
It's 10mm. That's what people want it for. If they wanted less they would just get .40.
>magtech
show me a $0.39/rd 180 gr .40 S&W anywhere near 1200 fps. I'll wait.
>magtech
one of the largest ammo manufacturers in the world, doesn't meet your standard of "cheap FMJ range ammo". again ridiculous expectations.
>It's 10mm. That's what people want it for. If they wanted less they would just get .40.
nta but this is fricking moronic. There are two broad buckets for ammo: EDC/hunting and training. For the former cost basically doesn't matter, can literally be dollars per round and still be fine if the performance justifies it, because you're using at most a few boxes worth per year to check it works and your zero, or if you ever actually NEED to shoot it could be $50/rnd and you'd still cheerfully blaze away to save your life.
For training it's almost entirely about cost, so if it's weaker that's fine. It only matters that good stuff is available.
Cartridge defines the maximum performance you can get out of the best load. But you don't need to use that for paper, so how cheap the cheapest is still matters.
Exactly. There's no problem with training 10mm loaded to 40 power. Are we just going to pretend everyone isn't shooting weak ass 115gr 9mm at the range too? Or what about the weak ass bottom of the barrel 55g steel case wolf? It so weak properly gassed ARs can have a hard time cycling it. The power matters for the real loads.
In a revolver, it’s a fantastic round. I
I get 1215 from my case of mag tech out of my smith 2.0, 4/10ths barrel length difference and within the delta of round to round so I would certainly confirm your numbers
Yes? There’s probably over two dozen factory 10mm on the market right now, the last year seeing at least two.
most 9mm semiautomatic handgun designs can be reasonably adapted to handle 10mm, while this isn't the case with .357
t. owns a gun in both chamberings
Yeah, you’re right that 10mm is so weak you can use most existing designs for it, while .357mag typically needs a boutique design to handle it’s power, like the Desert Eagle.
How are you getting a 9mm gun to cycle 10mm? 10mm is significantly longer so the magazines alone would be incompatible
not him but the process of "reasonably adapting" obviously involves some dimensional changes.
>Standard 357 mag is also weaker than it used to be so you have to do the same.
The modern understanding of terminal ballistics is that for every bullet grain there is a velocity (lower for higher bullet grains, and higher for smaller ones) below which flesh will simply absorb the energy causing it to stretch as heat and snap back into place, leaving a hole the bullet's diameter.
The issue is that the acceleration needed to reach that velocity in just the six or less inches of barrel a pistol will have will cause such recoil that it becomes impractical for serious use. So the only power a pistol bullet actually needs is that which is required to both fully penetrate 90% of the way through your target and fully expand a hollow point.
Any more energy below that magic number is wasted and adds needless muzzle flip.
That's why standard magnum rounds have gotten "weaker". You only need the more energetic ones when you need to punch through wildlife.
my primary hobby is handloading/reloading, shooting is a secondary hobby.
357 is cheap, powerful, available, and has a wide spectrum of recipes
Yes
In revolvers but also in rifles as a good substitute for .30 carbine
It's good, but it's really nothing special in 2024. Being "only" twice as powerful as 9mm isn't much of an achievement when you can get something like .460 Rowland or .40 Super in a smaller, higher capacity semi.
Shooting revolvers are fun. And an 8 shot revolver in 357 magnum that's easy to reload for is very fun and practical.
It’s even more practical to have a 11 shot .357 mag Desert Eagle conversion barrel that can upgrade to .44mag or .50AE, and doesn’t have a Hillary hole.
Buffalo Bore claims 1100 fps for their "Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P 180 gr. F.M.J."
at $1.92/rd list price
Underwood .40 S&W 180 gr 1000 fps can be had for $0.84/rd
even cheap range 10 mm outclasses boutique .40 S&W, and boutique 10 mm blows short&weak out of the water entirely.
>Is there any place for it in this modern world bros?
Its place is in right behind the shoulder of whitetails
Best revolver round has crazy ballistics out of a lever action.
People don't think it be like it do but it do.
Buy SAA and lever action chambered in .357 mag, because cowboy guns are fun and .38 is cheap to plink with. Meanwhile .357 mag is enough to hunt with.
>.38 is cheap to plink with
Make more money
.38 special used to be cheap not the price of .45 acp you dumbfrick zoomer
Hasnt been in years kiddo
Learn to reload
that's not bad. it's not .22lr or 9mm cheap, but it's not bad
.357 is easy to reload, is plenty powerful that it benefits from rifle barrels and is a proven manstopper in handguns.
.357mag is still a great cartridge because of its versatility. No other chambering can take anything from hare on up to bear. It can be a plinking load weak enough to kill small game or bubba's spicy hot handload. It's not unique to .357mag of course since (e.g.) .44mag has the same relationship with .44spl but I think it's too big to be truly versatile.
Modern 357 you find in stores is about as powerful as 40sw.
This will never not bother me.
Good for underwood and Buffalo bore making something worthwhile though. With those loads it's still nice.
I agree that more companies should make hotloaded .357, but for many .357 shooters it isn't an issue. .357 is probably one of if not the most reloaded/ handloaded cartidges out there. Most people who shoot it are more than happy to just load their own pisshots, rather than pay extra for some hot factory loads
Might at well just do 9mm+p
I made a place in your Mom with my magnum.
>Is there any place for it in this modern world bros?
Of course, Now that 41 magnum is dead the only viable options for normal people are .38special/.357magnum or .44 magnum. besides those cartridges are weirdos buying stuff like a 9mm revolvers or people who hunt with revolvers and insist on .475 linebaugh, .454 casull, .460 S&W, .500 magnum, etc
With 357 sig you give up less than 10% of power and get +150% capacity
With 9x25 you get more power and more capacity.
>not accounting for frame size diff
its not the same size for the same capacity or same weight. Also 9x25 is like 100fps better than .357 sig with the same bbl length until you hit like 9" +. .357 sig just makes more sense for a carry caliber to the discerning memelord
>it just makes more sense cause I'm a widdle baby
If you're such a coward why carry at all lol.
.357 Magnum out of a lever-action rifle is pretty handy for home defense.
I don't shoot it much out of revolvers because .38 Special is cheaper and easier to shoot.
>hunting in straight wall states out of a levergat
>same levergat can be used for pests with 38 specials (subsonic by default btw)
>357 levergat loaded with snakeshot and wadcutters to hunt squirrels (actualy very fun)
357/38 is pretty versatile anon, jack of all trades master of none but I personally like to own few guns I shoot a lot than to own a lot of guns I shoot very little each.
Your question indicates a mental moronation so profound that it’s painful to see.
If you aren't ruining brand new brass and beating it out of the cylinder with a hammer, can you say you're even trying?
Why load at all?
how many fingers do you have anon?
All eleven.