Why are the only readily available pcc either kriss vector, hi point, or tnw aero? All three platforms are shit. 10mm has the highest ballistic performance out of all the pistol calibers under .45 so why are companies not developing more ppc platforms?
cmmg makes their pccs in 10m.
I didn’t know that. But cmmg I’m just buying a AR pistol. I want something unique that’s also useful. I like B&G but they’re also way too expensive.
They're a unique kind of delayed blowback, nice bait thread where you just want to spar with folks advice
Tell me more about the blowback. Will I get gas in my face if I run a can? I have contacts so I hate getting shit in my eyes.
You can read about it on their site. Its called radial delayed blowback.
Buy a side charging upper and use one of their bolt/barrel combos and put that on top of one of their lowers. I did this with a 9mm setup that I run 100% suppressed and I get zero gas blowback. Very soft shooting.
You now have 4 examples of what you'd like, 3 being not "just an AR pistol"
Sounds like you just want to b***h and complain, maybe you should get into knitting or a book club
There’s not enough unique pccs. I would like there to be more.
Cool, put it in the wish jar and go frick yourself
Stribog has a 10mm smg
Here's five examples with a bonus of g20 conversions, just get a hi point queer.
How long is mp5 without a stock?
Grand Power makes a stribog in 10mm, probably your best bet then. Roller delayed too, so it's soft shooting.
Dissent line is delayed blowback? I thought it was DI with extra steps.
Because no one actually cares about your meme round besides the handful of vocal shills on this board
How many rounds does it take to drop a jogger borrowing your TV without asking? It takes 1-2 10mm at most while it takes two 9mm mags. You can go hunting with 10mm while hunting with 9mm is seen as animal cruelty.
How do you know it only takes 1-2 10mm to drop a man? Would be nice if there was some real world data, but no one on the professional side of things uses your dumbass cartridge. Cope some more homosexual, 10mm shills like you are this generation’s .45 worshipping neofudds.
>Would be nice if there was some real world data
There is real world data, and 10mm works the same as 9mm, .40, .45, and .38 special.
>hunting with 9mm is seen as animal cruelty
Only by whiney dipshits who don't actually hunt
On PrepHole and other media sites there are a handful of spazoids who are very loud about 10mm, and it tricks people into thinking 10mm is gaining huge momentum and popularity. It's all smoke, though. 10mm does not do nearly enough sales numbers for most companies to be able to expect to break even, let alone make money, by devoting assembly lines and machines to 10mm PCC's.
>inb4 but if there were more 10mm pcc's more people would buy 10mm
No, they wouldn't. People have had plenty of opportunity to buy into 10mm for a few decades now, and it's still a niche meme round. It'll always have a small dedicated following, but it'll never be mainstream& prolific
Eh, I think it's out of the meme snowflakeround ghetto, at least by my own personal measure which is
>"can I go onto ammoseek and see a ton of it for <2x the price of 9mm"
and 10mm passes that bar. For an example of a true meme snowflake round look at 7.5 FK which I think is actually kinda neat but has 4 available starting at 174cpr lol. So if you really love 10mm and want to run a gun I don't think you'll have trouble getting ammo for it.
But it's never gone any further then that either and I don't think it ever will.
You can hunt with 10mm not because it causes a wider wound but because it penetrates further. This is irrelevant when talking about 1 foot wide at max human torso.
Energy foot pounds does not mean jack shit if that energy is being absorbed as elastic stress and heat as the temporary wound cavity snaps back.
If your projectile is not moving faster than 2200-2400 fps, the elastic limit of flesh for that range of bullet grains, it is not going to produce wounds wider than it's circumference. And it is surface area of a wound, along with it's placement, that determines how long it takes a perp to bleed out.
A single 9mm bullet and a single 10mm bullet, moving along the same trajectory, penetrating the same depth, will have marginal differences in time to bleed out.
A 12 inch 9mm bullet wound's surface area is 13.345 in^2, a 12 inch 10mm bullet wound's surface area is 14.853 in^2. A mere 10.15% gain.
Which is why torx bullets are the future.
Pistol caliber cavitation bullets, moving at pistol speeds, achieve roughly the same amount of wound area as equivalent hollow points, but they do punch above their weight out of carbine and rifle lengths.
>There's this magical number and if you're 1 fps below it your bullet doesn't do shit
I don't buy it
Exit wound on a deer hit by 45/70 at over 100 yards. I would guess the projectile would be traveling about 1700 ft/s at that distance
>45/70
The "magic number" changes based on bullet mass.
The smaller the mass the faster speed you need and the greater the mass the slower you need. it's why 5.56 at 3000 fps and 1 oz shotgun slugs at 1500 fps both create fist sized cavities.
No fricking duh a .45/70 is going to do that.
>If your projectile is not moving faster than 2200-2400 fps, the elastic limit of flesh for that range of bullet grains, it is not going to produce wounds wider than it's circumference.
ok moron
>.45" or greater reasonably expanding projectile, reliable TSC wounding at 1500fps and possibly below
>.355" reasonably expanding projectile, TSC wounding at 1600fps
>.224" reasonably expanding projectile, TSC wounding at 1800fps
its wild to me that people are still posting all this dumb shit, here are the "facts"
>source?
No.
Imagine not caring about funny cartridges. Almost every cartridge is funny and should be loved
Because the whole point of PCCs is cheap ammo. There’s no point in a 10mm one when you can just use 5.56, except for 5 people with niche use cases or just being a10mm fanboy
Small form factor and I can register it as a pistol instead of an SBR. I can also hit things accurately at 60-100 meters compared to the 20-40 you get on a handgun.
I’m pretty sure the caliber doesn’t matter for SBR versus pistol.
It’s the length, I guess I could get the same on a pistol AR.
>Small form factor and I can register it as a pistol instead of an SBR.
No caliber makes no difference here, only whether it has a stock or not, OAL, and barrel length. Seriously have you looked at how fricking big a lot of PCCs are? I say this as someone who really strongly considered one based on pictures until I actually tried them in person and realized they're nearly the same size as rifles except with shit barrels. I'd pick an AR pistol first.
>I can also hit things accurately at 60-100 meters compared to the 20-40 you get on a handgun.
Although shooting to 100yd with a handgun is a lot of fun but sure, however obviously you can do that with a rifle too, and at range the shitty ballistics of 10mm start mattering. If you want to shoot 100yd and plink paper 9mm is fine. If you want to actually hunt no 10mm is a dumb choice at 100yd.
PCCs still have a niche sure, but it's just that a niche is all.
This. All handgun rounds are shit vs rifles. They're compromises made for handguns which themselves are compromises made for being tiny and light vs rifles. A PCC is almost by definition stupid, because it throws away the purpose (size/weight) of making compromises to the rounds in the first place. A quirk of the market means that 9mm is so fricking cheap while still being centerfire that it's actually possibly worth having a fun toy with positioned between 22lr and 5.56. But once you get away from that PCCs stop being worth it in a real hurry. Like for the last month, 9mm has hovered around 22cpr, 5.56 around 45cpr, and 10mm around 40cpr. 9mm has consistently been half the price or less, that pays for itself in a real hurry. 10mm is more like 10% less. A lot less compelling, which means fewer gun choices.
>All handgun rounds are shit vs rifles.
This is cope from 9mmtards.
10mm or Buffalo bore .45 should be able to hit roughly .30 carbine energy out of a 16 inch barrel
>Because the whole point of PCCs is cheap ammo.
Poorgay outs himself
>There’s no point in a 10mm one when you can just use 5.56
Hot 10mm has more muzzle energy than 55gr 5.56 out of barrels less than 10 inches. There's also weight and muzzle flash concerns.
>use cases
Pic related
>$3/rd boutique ammo that’s out of stock half the time to approach energy of bottom of the barrel 55 gr 5.56
10mm ammo is also heavier than 5.56 you fricking moron. If you didn’t know that it tells me you’ve never handled either and are most likely noguns like the majority of 10mm fanboys.
"Poorgayging" is only going to become more common among American posters, friend. Look up any chart about wealth distribution in the US and realize you're precious hobby has been assfricked by the rich.
>Because the whole point of PCCs
>is cheap ammo
>amount for weight
>volume of controllable full auto fire
>small (one better for the diminutively statured)
It's throwing good money after bad when it could be going toward objectively more capable rifle rounds in trivially larger/heavier packages while standardizing on parts & ammo. There are exceptions, but those prove the rule as long as the NFA exists.
JR Carbine, Mech Tech conversion.
Grand Power just released their roller delayed 10mm in the US.
That looks sexy
>why are the only readily available pcc either kriss vector, hi point, or tnw aero? All three platforms are shit.
>why are companies not developing more ppc platforms?
Because the advantages of the pistol caliber carbine go out the window if it's not full auto.
The only tactical consideration a PCC has over a rifle carbine is more controllable recoil, while a rifle will be just as compact with more power.
Plus, if you have access to full auto guns, ie: you're on a SWAT team or in the military, you also have access to all types of AP ammo which a rifle will also excel at better than pistol calibers will so they have no use for them either.
The PCC's current niche is people so tight on cash they can only afford pistol ammo (so they also can only afford shit guns), and those few who own pre-Hughe's Amendment uncircumcised PCCs.
>Because the advantages of the pistol caliber carbine go out the window if it's not full auto.
This is more cope from 9mmtards. A buttstock, foregrip, larger magazine capacity, red dot, flashlight, laser, silencer, and other force multipliers aren't advantages over handguns?
Given you can hardly conceal a PCC with all that on it if at all? Yes.
If you're not concealing you have no reason not to use a rifle carbine instead.
>If you're not concealing you have no reason not to use a rifle carbine instead.
Weight, length, and suppression are all valid reasons aside from just the cost of entry.
>advantage over handguns
yeah
>advantage over rifle of the same size
lolno
>rifle of the same size
A 10mm CMMG Banshee weighs less and is several inches shorter than a DD Mk18.
cool, now compare it to a .300BLK gun of similar barrel length
Compare the weight of a 300blk cartridge with a 10mm cartridge and multiply it by 30.
>have to compare ammo weights
now THIS is autism, I can't really imagine a scenario where you want one of those shorty guns and the weight of a magazine is a deciding factor
Why wouldn't it be when the whole point is to have a gun that's small and handy?
I guess if you wanna get that autistic and trade ballistic performance for ammo weight, here's your gun bro
bruh, throwing out 220 grain subsonics, .300 AAC and 10mm are both in the 150 - 180 grain area, you're literally comparing the brass and powder weights.
Even for 220 grain subs, the more accurate comparison would be .45 ACP, not 10mm, which will again be basically the same weight.
>The PCC's current niche is people so tight on cash they can only afford pistol ammo (so they also can only afford shit guns)
PCCs are more expensive than PSA AR15s.
Yeah but the ammo is half the cost.
What isn't more expensive than a PSA blend ar 15?
>The PCC's current niche is people so tight on cash they can only afford pistol ammo
So most of America right now?
Wealth inequality seems to be a better way of depriving people of their second amendment rights than legislation. How are you supposed to justify a several hundred dollar recreational purchase BEFORE AMMO when you're one missed paycheck away from homelessness?
>10mm has the highest ballistic performance out of all the pistol calibers under .45
You must be 18 to post here
I want a PCC in 5.7mm so I can hose the entire house down during a home invasion. 150 rounds should do it.
CMMG Banshee or Grand Power Stribog if you're poor
10mm sucks, embrace 9x25mm
90gr@2000fps from a 6" barrel
Exactly this, I want a 10mm PCC just so I can swap the barrel for 9x25.
I want to see e-celebs hype up 9x25 so badly, maybe some actual adoption will occur. It'd be cool to see lehigh screwdrivers at 2000fps shot at those autistic jello dummies.
Could try and get a grand power stribog in 10mm I think they recently released a model that handles 10mm/45
Why not just get a rifle?
>not enough velocity for TSC wounding
>any loads even close are hamstrung by lmao.40S&Wprojectiles
>people love to talk about 10mm guns, dont love to buy them, dont love to actually shoot them even more
>variation in meplat diameters and load power makes reliable feeding apparently dark magic to 99% of manufacturers(S&W, glock, sig, etc, practically everyone)
Look into the stribog sp10a3, its the only interesting 10mm PCC to come out in decades, literally since the 10mm MP5s IMO. that being said it seems like it suffers from the usual euro SMG style gun feed reliability problems magnified by the 10mm effect, who knows if theyll ever get the thing to reliably feed everything from practically .40 S&W range FMJ to hot and heavy wide meplat hardcasts. Considering practically nobody out there can manage that reliably with a factory gun i doubt it, but if its manageable with moderate tuning at the end user level then it still may be worthwhile.
Well, I mean.... I just like PCCs, in general. Not just for shooting, I like being around them, having engaging targets. Make it all more interesting, I don't know why. When a PCC makes itself known on the range, I already expect guys trying to hold it and assumes every conversation is a proposition to try one out, and I am like "Frick this, I'm not gonna say shit" (because I would just sound pathetic and like another simp) and that's that. This makes it impossible to make new gun friends online (or a /k/ommando friend, because they're busy trying to get the guns loadout) STOP BUYING SIG BRACES GOD DAMNIT! You'll go to ATF jail. Let everyone shoot their guns in peace SPECIALLY /k/ommandos that can't even shoot on the range on guns from like rainbow six siege. Make friends first, go ask for gun pics later, frick. I got a little carried away but I hope you get what I am saying. Stay safe everyone, have a good day.
Whatsva a good gun around VZ61 length with a folding stock?
B&T USW
PCCs are goofy and doing a magnum PCC is really goofy. Just use 223 if you're trying to do damage
I've always wanted one of these in 10mm, would be a nice handy innawoods carbine that's legal everywhere, in a proven bear cartridge.
I want one of these in 5.7 or .30 sc with a drum mag
Guess why
>hi point,
foh outa here don't you talk shit about my girl
Because so few people carry 10mm that it's basically irrelevant and I carry a .40sw