Your mission is to cum up with "a Mission" for this trash. :)

USN has 20 of each, and don't know WTF to do with them, but no matter what they can't scrap them for at least 10yrs, out of embarrassment.

Its up to you to cum up with something for them to do.

Aren't these actually not a bad match for USA's planned repeat of South Pacific island hopping campaign but against China instead of Japan? Couldn't they at least be fast and shallow water logistics, that due to shallow draft could work with minimal docking/transfer infrastructure?

PS-No other nation will take any of them off your hands.

https://whitefleet.net/2016/12/11/examining-the-us-navys-lcs-based-frigate/

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  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    you have no idea what you're talking about

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      but the "brass" that planned and approved all this does?

      BTW, instead of that moronic multi-billion tax dollar USS Zumwalt for "shore bombardment" with two little 6" guns, WTF not just de-moth ball some of these bad dudes with 8" guns? Sure you might need to replace the tubes with something more modern, but due to high wear rate of barrels that is baked into the design. I figure if it survivied getting its entire bow and #1 blow off and still sailing all the frick over, it must be pretty decent.

      Just replace some of the shorter range AAA with SAMs and you'd be G2G.

      Unlike USS Zumwalt its got some real armor so it might actually survive a shore shelling mission intact.

      Old battleship were a cute idea but if 6" was the plan figure 8" could do the job with a ship at 1/4 the displacement and costs.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Drone them up and have them do their original role of littoral combat for however many seconds it takes Chink shore defenses to turn them into artificial reefs, demonstrating why unprotected gunboats are a terrible idea in the 21st century while at the same time putting nobodys' lives at risk.

        You can even have the Zumwalts act as drone command ships, given their low radar signature allows them to operate closer to shore.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >You can even have the Zumwalts act as drone command ships, given their low radar signature allows them to operate closer to shore.

          still a multi-billion $ target and you ain't gonna have a "stealth" 17,000 ton ship. Your enemy will be able to buy live satellite feeds of its wake, even on a moonless night, from China OR Iran on the black market.

          IMO only hope for USS Zumwalt would be some satellite coordination command ship. I'm hoping its at least got decent electronics.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Zumwalt is getting long range hypersonic missiles, so it can sit 1000km+ from shore nailing high value targets.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >nailing high value targets
              Only ones worth firing a $40-50m hypersonic missile at.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >unprotected gunboats
          do you mean "un-armored"?

          The PT boats and S-Boat were rarely if ever successful in their design role as fish flinging giant killers, but turned out to be very useful for lots of other roles.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        there are no heavy gunned ships left to unmothball, unless we take back the museum battleships.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          yeah, just un-moth ball the blue prints.

          post WW2 class had rapid fire auto-loading 8" guns shorted out for massive tonnage per minute. Sounds about exactly right.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >un mothball the blueprints
            You can't reasonably build a battleship in 2024, industry isn't set up for it and ships are built differently today. Ontop of that a big-gun battleship would be pointless. If you're dead set on armoring a ship to survive hits frmo modern missiles, you should turn it into a purely missile-armed arsenal ship with nothing above the armor besides what's necessary.

            Even then, you should just spend that time and money making missile cruisers.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Submarines, planes and rockets made that shit pretty much obsolete

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            we would basically be rebuilding armor and gun foundries from scratch. its not happening.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              armor might be diff, and they cranking out 6" guns for SPG, can't be that much harder to crank out 8", in this day and age with CAD, etc. Believe it or not, logistics for ramping up something like that is much better today than in 1940s. Much better cranes, big rigs, power grid, etc. Back in the 1940s even trucks barely functioned compared to today, always needing service and tires and shit.

              Just buy the big parts from China or if thats an issue Worst Korea, then do the finishing in USA.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                combine program with 8" SPG. bigger is better for new fancy shells with guidance and rocket boost, bomblets, etc. If they had auto-loader in 1940s you are already 90% there.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                combine program with 8" SPG. bigger is better for new fancy shells with guidance and rocket boost, bomblets, etc. If they had auto-loader in 1940s you are already 90% there.

                You can't just make drawing bigger and produce an 8" gun that way, it was practically a ground-up process to design any naval gun with a different calibre

                They are fine ships once their problems have been solved. They probably SHOULDN’T have had some of those issues to begin with but they are far from the worst naval engineering projects ever to be run. The reason why you people think otherwise is LITERALLY because an eceleb gave you that opinion. In reality the Navy really likes their later-production boats and is constantly sending them on missions. Half of the entire LCS fleet is on deployment at all times running a bunch of different missions — sea control, projection, FONOPs, deterrence, etc, and do it much more cost-effectively than other surface combatants. The Navy actually really likes them in their current state and uses them heavily which you would know if your sources of information included things other than an out-of-touch eceleb on YouTube running clickbait.

                >The Navy actually really likes them in their current state and uses them heavily
                these two points do not go hand in hand
                everybody uses whatever they have on hand whether they like it or not; the Navy is overstretched and has no choice but to work with the LCS they have regardless of how (un)ideal it is, but that is not a testimony to their design
                if the Navy could magically instantaneously trade two LCSs for one Constellation right now, you bet your ass they would

                Per that article, it would seem they are buying 2 in OPV config (only light weaponry), and another 2 in frigate config (missiles). I wonder if the two in OPV config could be upgraded to frigate standard (ex. have FFBNW capability for missile launchers and extra equipment).

                the Freedom class can fit at least a box launcher for LRASMs right aft on the edge of the helicopter landing pad, or in extremis replace the Bushmasters with LRASM boxes, it's just that the latter is not so good an idea now that semi-submerged naval drone torpedoes are a thing
                one possibility is to put the Bushmasters in the boat bays but once again, that has tradeoffs
                this is one of the biggest problems with the LCS (besides their mechanical unreliability), the sheer moronicness of the deck plan makes it difficult to cram more weapons in

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >this is one of the biggest problems with the LCS (besides their mechanical unreliability), the sheer moronicness of the deck plan makes it difficult to cram more weapons in
                Indeps carry two NSM launchers in front of the bridge, but some people suspect the extra weight on the bow is causing their plates to buckle and crack.
                Freedom's deck plan is kinda moronic, thoughever. No real room to put big weapons unless you remove an existing capability (ex. delete the Bushmasters), or you degrade an existing capability (putting the launchers right on the edge of the helipad can lead to accidents).
                Have they managed to integrate the Mk 110 into the combat management software? I remember reading that it used to be eyeball and joystick only, back when the LCS were originally commissioned.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Have they managed to integrate the Mk 110 into the combat management software?
                I think in a basic sense, yes.

                But there is a lethality upgrade program that is slated to run from FY26-28 that would upgrade the Mk110 57mm gun further and add enhanced anti-drone capabilities.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Will it finally receive the guided shells (ORKA/ALAMO) they initially wanted for it? I think one of the reasons why they didn't go ahead with them (thus far, anyway) was because the gun couldn't use them properly, due to its lacking integration with the rest of the ship's sensors.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yup the upgrade is I believe part of the ALAMO program.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                If they get the ALAMO fully functional, that could greatly improve light AA. In fact, were I the bouzoukis, I'd get the ALAMO-capable Mk 110, delete the Bushmasters, put AShM launchers in their place, and replace the RIM-116 launcher with a RapidFire+ turret (the radar-equipped fully-autonomous version with Martlets). This way it still has adequate CIWS (the pastas have shown that guns can work as CIWS as long as they use guided shells), while maintaining some autocannon capability (and a handful light SAMs).

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                RAM is more capable than Rapidfire + Martlet

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's not an issue of performance differential, it's an issue of needing to play musical chairs with the loadout in order to improve the overall utility (right now the LCS is straight-up shit in ASuW capability), while still maintaining a semblance of functionality in all the relevant food groups. While the RIM-116 has better performance than L3Harris's HE-4G shells for the Mk 110, and its replacement with an AC + 4 VSHORAD turret would be a strict downgrade (even when accounting for KE-AB shells), you need to remove *something*, in order to fit the AShM launchers. This way, a modicum of capability in all areas is maintained, instead of, say, directly swapping the Bushmasters with AShM launchers and not replacing them with anything.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                RAM and Mk110 both have anti-swarming capability in this case, so you no longer need the Bushmasters. You also need the RAM for anti-missile point defence, which Martlet cannot do.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You also need the RAM for anti-missile point defence, which Martlet cannot do.
                Fair, but it's worth mentioning that even the latest version of the RIM-116 is still very much a pure SHORAD (I think its max range is below 20 km). It has shorter range compared to something like a CAMM. Also, both LCS classes now use SeaRAM, instead of the Mk 144 'blindfire' launcher (originally fitted to the first batch of Freedoms). While this improves sensor coverage (thanks to the extra radar) and provides extra CMS redundancy, it reduces the number of ready missiles to half (11 for SeaRAM versus 21 for Mk 144). Meaning the HE-4G rounds are genuinely necessary now, since you need to economize RAM launches.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Is the SeaRAM sensors/radar better than integrating the Mk144 launcher with the ships sensors/radar and combat management system? I would assume the ships own sensors would be better...

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                As far as I understand, it's still integrated, however it can switch to autonomous mode (which the Mk144 obviously cannot do), and theoretically even provide some extra coverage via sensor fusion.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >RAM and Mk110 both have anti-swarming capability in this case

                MK110 has no anti swarming capability because it can't fire more than 60-70 rounds before having to spend 1 hour cooling down.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I remember that, too.

                >Have they managed to integrate the Mk 110 into the combat management software?
                I think in a basic sense, yes.

                But there is a lethality upgrade program that is slated to run from FY26-28 that would upgrade the Mk110 57mm gun further and add enhanced anti-drone capabilities.

                That's good to hear; so, the gun can be aimed by radar, finally? Has it been tested against actual target missiles yet?

                Correct. The Navy cut the budget during construction, and also changed the standards it was designed against, which in combination with poor contractor maintenance support resulted in the issue. The Navy has reportedly solved the issue using a new preventative maintenance program and they appear positive about long-term viability and extended deployments.

                People blame the vendors, but most of the problems were caused by the USN itself, from the contradictory requirements to cutting costs in dumb places and then having to try to make fixes while design was "finished" and construction was already well under way. That's not to absolve the vendors, of course--both made some mistakes--but the worst offenders wore uniforms and never saw any repercussions to their careers.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nope, the Navy actually likes them now: https://news.usni.org/2023/11/08/navy-keeps-expanding-littoral-combat-ship-missions-even-as-both-classes-shrink
                They say that they’re much better now than they used to be and are succeeding at executing very long deployments it’s them. The “LCS is garbage” is a meme that’s a few years out of date. I have no idea if the littoral combat concept is something the Navy will continue to pursue but these have ended up being good boats.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                The Navy always wanted them. They've insisted at every point that the LCS is necessary for performing their mission, while the media constantly talks about why they're useless because of their extremely limited surface warfare capability, as if a corvette should be expected to be armed to the teeth when 99% of its job is noncombat and the remaining 1% is being babysat by a destroyer or larger ship.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The “LCS is garbage” is a meme that’s a few years out of date.

                I say this all the time, but people really need to stop believing the vast majority of things they hear about military hardware. There are so many people with motives for spreading disinformation about them - clickbait "journalists," domestic politicians with ulterior motives, foreign propagandists, PR for rival defense companies, uninformed people trying to look like experts, even the military itself trying to keep its real capabilities vague, etc. - and very few with any motivation or ability to actually spread accurate info. The only info that's worth anything at all comes from the relevant military agency itself, from people who actually serve with/on that hardware, or from a few of the most trusted specialty trade publications, and even those sources should all be taken with a grain of salt.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                That 57 mm gun was the main arnament of the 110 feet /150 ton swedish Hugin class fast attack craft. They also carried six Penguin anti ship missiles. And their Mk1 gun was watercooled meaning that it had much longer burst length and sustained fire capabilities than the Mk3 on the LCS.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                What you want is 12" or larger guns firing high explosive discarding sabot shells starting at 8-9" inch and up. The research was already done by USN in the 50s and 60s. The Zumwalt abortion could have had working guns if the program was managed by engineers instead of conmen.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >armor might be diff, and they cranking out 6" guns for SPG, can't be that much harder to crank out 8", in this day and age with CAD, etc.
                Big mistake is going other than Army 155mm caliber. That doomed Zumwalts gun. You make special snowflake gun and you will run into death special of costs and increase and cuts of purchase of that special snowflake calibers rounds.
                Only way is going NATO compatible (JBMOU) 155mm. 155mm WOULD go ahead and would be developed so you would get towed by this development and economy of scale of rounds production.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Why not scale up the composite plants that have to literally beg for the government to buy more tanks to keep them in business? Battleship armor is outdated, but that's because it's stuck with plain RHA, when modern composites scaled to the same thickness could easily beat a Harpoon or whatever the Chink copy is calleds' payload.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Battleship armor is outdated, but that's because it's stuck with plain RHA, when modern composites scaled to the same thickness
                Unironically RHA plate is one the best defenses against full calibers rounds (ie HE and semi AP warheads of the missiles).
                Only thing is really better is ceramic and it's prohibitively expensive for ships.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Because you can't armor sensors, and once they're gone, your armored ship is a very expensive target barge.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not every missle target sensors and sailing away to repair radar mast instead of sinking or crippled hull is huge different in survivability.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                How do you plan to sail away with no defensive systems, anon? They can continue to shoot missiles at you. Also, even setting aside all the cut electrical systems and other damage on the inside, modern AShM do largely plunging attacks that would go through the superstructure instead of slamming into your theoretical armored belt.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Systems redundancy (for example SeaRam can operate fully autonomously), other ships support, enemy runs out of missiles.
                It's greatly increases numbers of missiles enemy need to launch to do significant damage and missiles are limited resource.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >It's greatly increases numbers of missiles enemy need to launch to do significant damage and missiles are limited resource.

                Pretty sure knocking you out of the fight and requiring you to steam home, wait for a dock slot to open up, and get your superstructure repaired is pretty significant damage, my moronic friend.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You know alternative maybe going to the Back Sea bottom under you own power.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                The alternative is spending all that money and weight on more active defense systems so you don't get hit to begin with.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Here is thing something like FREMM fregate with 6000t displacement costs around $800 millions .
                200000t displacement container ship costs like $60 milions.
                Steel is cheap, electronics military grade gizmos aren't.
                You can put FREMM frigate on 30000t STS(HY 80) armored hull and would barely adds 10% to frigate costs with massive increase in survivability.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You were advocating for expensive special ceramic composites that are applied to an M1. Also, steel is cheap but even RHA, something dreadfully out of date, is far more expensive then the fricking bottom of the bin stuff they make container ships out of.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You were advocating for expensive special ceramic composites
                I wasn't

                >Battleship armor is outdated, but that's because it's stuck with plain RHA, when modern composites scaled to the same thickness
                Unironically RHA plate is one the best defenses against full calibers rounds (ie HE and semi AP warheads of the missiles).
                Only thing is really better is ceramic and it's prohibitively expensive for ships.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Then you are incapable of following a reply chain, but even then it doesn't change that it adds weight, which reduces top speed, and cost, both of which are bad things and the only thing that it gets you is a small chance of increased survivability against missiles that aren't designed to sink you, since anything that is aiming to do that will snap your keel ala QUICKSINK.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                > the fricking bottom of the bin stuff they make container ships out of.

                A container ship just ran into a fooking 8 lane highway bridge. The ship survived, the bridge didn't.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        That pile of garbage would get removed by a cheap boat with rockets in record time

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >8" mk16 maximum range
        17 miles
        >6" AGS (LRLAP) maximum range
        70 miles

        Huh, I wonder why they didn't reactivate some ancient piece of shit with no range, no stealth, and no missile defense. Modernizing one or two of the Iowa-class battleships to be a tomahawk+gun barge might have made sense if the Navy took shore bombardment seriously, but they only pretend to in order to keep congress happy.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        My girlfriend tells me there really isn't that much difference between six and eight inches, and she's kind of an expert. They probably asked her.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I know nothing about why they might be bad, but top looks pretty cool, and thats good enough for me.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    at this point there are three options that don't involve giving them to some poor turdie sod:
    1) unfrick the minehunting gear and make them MCMs
    2) give them to the jarheads as company-sized amphib assault ships
    3) give them to the coasties

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Turning them into Coast Guard cutters might be a good idea since they can sail in shallow waters. Simply remove most of the weapons except the guns to free up space. Heck, sell them in this config to the Flips.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      > company-sized amphib assault ships

      Assuming you could cram a company of Marines on one, how do they deploy? Jump over the side?

      And of course the ruinous operating cost.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >how do they deploy?
        Helicopter and RHIB.
        >Assuming you could cram a company of Marines on one
        Aye there's the rub
        I think you could really only fit in 2 platoons of jarheads and all their kit in a single LCS, even with modifications.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          > helicopter

          Trying to use your anti submarine helicopter as an assault bird seems unwise.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's multipurpose, and you're not going to need it for hunting subs while conducting an amphibious assault
            besides, the point of "distributed ops" is supposed to be that you accept more risk in exchange for more concealment / being in more places

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >It's multipurpose

              Not really, except in the broadest, "I could do that but I don't wanna" sense. And even if, trying an airborne assault with 4 marines per trip seems unwise.

              > you're not going to need it for hunting subs while conducting an amphibious assault

              Oh, we'll let the Chinese know we called the fence and the coral reef "Safe".

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >And even if, trying an airborne assault with 4 marines per trip seems unwise.
                True, but it's 4 marines more than without
                >Oh, we'll let the Chinese know we called the fence and the coral reef "Safe".
                Submarines don't operate well in shallow water, and islands are famously known for being quite shallow and at some places above water even

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                > Submarines don't operate well in shallow water

                Then odd they'd spec an anti submarine model for a littoral ship, cause those littorals are a shallow lot. And then there's that whole sub launched anti ship missile thing.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >odd they'd spec an anti submarine model for a littoral ship
                because the "LCS" became a jack of all trades that combined
                >Streetfighter (FACM)
                >MCM replacement
                >Perry (ASW FFG) replacement
                >spec ops mothership (because GWOT)
                because nobody could make up their minds what to make of it, it was everything and the fricking kitchen sink

                That 57 mm gun was the main arnament of the 110 feet /150 ton swedish Hugin class fast attack craft. They also carried six Penguin anti ship missiles. And their Mk1 gun was watercooled meaning that it had much longer burst length and sustained fire capabilities than the Mk3 on the LCS.

                Okay, but what's your point?

                >RAM and Mk110 both have anti-swarming capability in this case

                MK110 has no anti swarming capability because it can't fire more than 60-70 rounds before having to spend 1 hour cooling down.

                >in this case
                Mk110 would have ALAMO so it wouldn't have to fire so many rounds

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >because nobody could make up their minds what to make of it, it was everything and the fricking kitchen sink
                Metaphorically speaking, it was everybody's hopes and dreams, coalesced into an underachieving pile of crap.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          > helicopter

          Trying to use your anti submarine helicopter as an assault bird seems unwise.

          They can carry a single CH-53 instead of the two SH-60s, which can fit an entire platoon with gear.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            > They can carry a single CH-53 instead of the two SH-60s

            On the flight deck, but not in the hanger. So, no maintenance or protection from the environment. Also no backup or rescue if the bird is down.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >3) give them to the coasties

      Agreed. I always thought the LCS's were really cool looking but they always seemed more like coast guard ships rather than navy ships. I feel like they would be perfect for the Caribbean, dealing with drug smuggling/trafficking or your general search and rescue

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Funny story, I got to tour one this winter and talking with the XO, that's exactly what they're doing with the ones based on the East Coast since all the mission packages fricking suck but they have plenty of space for two RHIBs.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/Q5317Ue.jpg

          I want to see an Independence in Coastie colors. Trimaran in that white and red would be so cash.

          here's my quick photoshop mock up

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I am cum.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >all the mission packages fricking suck
          Do they even *have* mission packages worth talking about? Apart from the dodgy minesweeping pack, and the "light surface warfare" (a.k.a. a couple of 30 mm autocannons) one?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I believe he mentioned an ASW package that also sucked in addition to the minesweeper package, but the one I toured was a Freedom class so maybe it's different for the Independence.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >the one I toured was a Freedom class
              I remember reading that the biggest issue with the Freedom class was its large wake, which interfered with the towed sonar array. Apparently it worked well enough on the Indeps, but it was crap on the Freedoms.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Could be. Obviously the XO wasn't going to spend the entire time shitting on his ship, especially when they were trying to sell me on commissioning, but he had a bit of salt to him about them being both the newest ships and heading to be decommissioned already and it slipped out for a bit. The fact that they're driven directly by an officer and not by an enlisted who's responsible for responding to an officer's commands was kinda neat, since it requires extra training and apparently the best from each class on the East vs West coast get sent somewhere to compete against each other.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >being both the newest ships and heading to be decommissioned already
                IIRC Lockmart are waiting for some gullible foreigner (seems like the bouzoukis have shown interest) to foot the bill for rebuilding the engines to the mostly-functional latest spec, so they can shift them out of the mothball inventory. Though they're not building anymore Freedoms. Marinette Marine has shut down the production line, since they're gearing up for the Constellations. OTOH, Austal are still trickling out Indeps.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I want to see an Independence in Coastie colors. Trimaran in that white and red would be so cash.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I always thought the LCS's were really cool looking but they always seemed more like coast guard ships rather than navy ships.
        They are. Their mission is the same as the coast guard's, just for other countries' coasts.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >just for other countries' coasts
          which the Coast Guard ends up doing anyway

          USCG regularly does operations in Europe, Africa, and the Pacific.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Which is because the Navy doesn't have capacity to handle it because their LCS order got cut short and half of what they did get turned out to be a useless piece of shit.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Ironically, despite the Freedom being a shit hullform with garbage engines, its electronics are reportedly better than those on the Indep, especially the last batch, from LCS-17 (Indianapolis) onwards.
              The Lockmart CMS built around Hensoldt's TRS-4D radar is reportedly better than N-G's competing system built around Saab's Sea Giraffe AMB.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >just for other countries' coasts
          which the Coast Guard ends up doing anyway

          USCG regularly does operations in Europe, Africa, and the Pacific.

          >American military is so powerful that its Coast Guard is protecting other countries coasts

          God damn I love this country

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      > company-sized amphib assault ships

      Also, no racks, heads or mess space -- so no.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >3) give them to the coasties
      This is what I was looking for. They'd probably be stellar for coastal patrol duty and hunting down narco boats/subs. They also look like cocaine belongs onboard.
      >ALTO TU BARCO!

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I still say Fast Logistics to semi-remote islands is The Mission.

    Even a little 3,000-4,000 ton ship should be able to deliver cargo why better than any airlift. Weld some extra cranes on it to crane some big boats from deck to water, then the cargo into the boats.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    1. Transfer to coast guard
    2. Base on Gulf Coast
    3. ?????
    4. Cocaine!

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This, or policing the freshly conquered Chinese coast after a complete chicom capitulation.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Independence class
    mine hunting
    >Freedom class
    scrap them

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >scrap them
      Greece said they might buy 4 of them

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Didn't they eventually decide to just keep buying FDIs?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          https://www.naval-technology.com/news/us-confirms-supply-of-freedom-class-lcss-to-hellenic-navy/

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Per that article, it would seem they are buying 2 in OPV config (only light weaponry), and another 2 in frigate config (missiles). I wonder if the two in OPV config could be upgraded to frigate standard (ex. have FFBNW capability for missile launchers and extra equipment).

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Retrofit them with hydrofoils, stealth coatings, and copious amounts of missiles.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Damn you, Skeletor!

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    They are fine ships once their problems have been solved. They probably SHOULDN’T have had some of those issues to begin with but they are far from the worst naval engineering projects ever to be run. The reason why you people think otherwise is LITERALLY because an eceleb gave you that opinion. In reality the Navy really likes their later-production boats and is constantly sending them on missions. Half of the entire LCS fleet is on deployment at all times running a bunch of different missions — sea control, projection, FONOPs, deterrence, etc, and do it much more cost-effectively than other surface combatants. The Navy actually really likes them in their current state and uses them heavily which you would know if your sources of information included things other than an out-of-touch eceleb on YouTube running clickbait.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >they are far from the worst naval engineering projects ever to be run
      All the boats in one class having a design flaw in their engine gearing is a pretty big oof. Same with all the boats in the other class having a design flaw in their transverse frames.
      And the speed requirement was genuinely moronic, given their size.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >planned repeat of South Pacific island hopping campaign
    can't do an island hopping campaign if you don't lose the islands in the first place, which is undoubtedly the plan

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Need tiny spammable ships for Trade Protection, ASW/Minesweeping, and COIN a.k.a. Colonial Service roles
    >Max out the speed and make all other weapons/armor the literal minimum for the class since this shit will get BTFO by any actual warship
    >"The Corvette Independence is complete. This ship has some trouble reaching its design speed.."
    > ASW: 0 (3)
    whoa how did the USN hack my RTW playthrough?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >RTW
      absolutely based, I love that game and I don't know shit about ship design

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I miss the /k/ plays RTW threads.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Rome Total War?

  11. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'd use them for doing the things that the Navy is using them for right now: all of the stuff the Cost Guard does but in foreign ports, plus all the things currently done by warships that don't require a proper warship.

  12. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Chosing to produce both hulls was fricking moronic but other than that it works.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Independence was always the right choice but people don't like it because it looks goofy. They bought Freedom because in theory it should be nearly as capable, as a backup plan in case Independence was cancelled for being ugly like Zumwalt was.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It wasn't just the weird hull shape. The Indep is made entirely from aluminum, unlike the Freedom (alu superstructure + steel hull), which isn't a common material for entire hulls (not 2000+ ton ones, anyway).

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          And yet somehow the Freedom has even more corrosion problems and is just as paper thin. What was even the point?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            [...]
            Mixing metals makes cathodic corrosion much worse, if you are scared of Al hulls failing at that scale you need to make steel hulls and not mix metals.
            With the amount of people involved in a project of this scale I wonder how something any 1st year apprentice knows got past them.

            This, the Indep's corrosion issues were eventually fixed by reverting to the originally-designed anti-corrosion system (in a moronic attempt at cost-cutting, they downgraded it during construction).
            While the Freedom's issue is that the mixed-metal construction is self-corroding, so in practice ends up requiring the same heavy-duty anti-corrosion system of an all-AL hull.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Correct. The Navy cut the budget during construction, and also changed the standards it was designed against, which in combination with poor contractor maintenance support resulted in the issue. The Navy has reportedly solved the issue using a new preventative maintenance program and they appear positive about long-term viability and extended deployments.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                They still need to redo the Indep hullplan, to account for the thickened frames and plating. At least if they want to keep those NSM launchers on the bow. Speed will also be impacted, but the 40-knot mandate was giga-moronic anyway.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >What was even the point?
            Hindsight is 20/20

            [...]
            Mixing metals makes cathodic corrosion much worse, if you are scared of Al hulls failing at that scale you need to make steel hulls and not mix metals.
            With the amount of people involved in a project of this scale I wonder how something any 1st year apprentice knows got past them.

            >something any 1st year apprentice knows
            1st year apprentices know basic principles of what doesn't work.
            R&D advancement is when people develop ways to violate those principles.
            R&D failure is when those ways don't work out.
            Saying "I told you so" isn't helpful, because "I told you so" always works until it doesn't
            We would be in technological stagnation if we only ever listened to what 1st year apprentices know about stuff

            >8" mk16 maximum range
            17 miles
            >6" AGS (LRLAP) maximum range
            70 miles

            Huh, I wonder why they didn't reactivate some ancient piece of shit with no range, no stealth, and no missile defense. Modernizing one or two of the Iowa-class battleships to be a tomahawk+gun barge might have made sense if the Navy took shore bombardment seriously, but they only pretend to in order to keep congress happy.

            Because shore bombardment isn't serious any more except as a low-cost suppression weapon to keep enemy troops in trenches pinned down while the Marines sail in. Everything else should have been destroyed by cruise missiles and airstrikes.

            I remember that, too.
            [...]
            That's good to hear; so, the gun can be aimed by radar, finally? Has it been tested against actual target missiles yet?
            [...]
            People blame the vendors, but most of the problems were caused by the USN itself, from the contradictory requirements to cutting costs in dumb places and then having to try to make fixes while design was "finished" and construction was already well under way. That's not to absolve the vendors, of course--both made some mistakes--but the worst offenders wore uniforms and never saw any repercussions to their careers.

            >most of the problems were caused by the USN itself
            yep

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >R&D advancement is when people develop ways to violate those principles.
              And you do those tests at a small scale, you don't put a hull into production hoping you have solved the issue.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Theoretically that makes sense, but practically it takes too long.
                Also, it's very expensive to build a one-off experimental model, figure out everything wrong with it, and then mass produce.
                Furthermore, you have to balance that against operational requirements - you cannot hold up production of the next-gen warship awaiting your experimental results while you have hulls going out of service every year AND you have increasing operational requirements ie need for more hulls RTFN.

                Concurrency and iteration has been made a scapegoat in recent times for slipped delivery times (cough F-35 cough) but not only is the alternative actually worse, in reality we have always operated on this model.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          And yet somehow the Freedom has even more corrosion problems and is just as paper thin. What was even the point?

          Mixing metals makes cathodic corrosion much worse, if you are scared of Al hulls failing at that scale you need to make steel hulls and not mix metals.
          With the amount of people involved in a project of this scale I wonder how something any 1st year apprentice knows got past them.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Too many cooks in the kitchen, would be my guess. And the omnipresent Congressional meddling in the interests of pork, too.

  13. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Artificial reefs.

  14. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    anti-piracy and/or give them to the coast guard

  15. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    > has

    Had. The Navy is scrapping them as fast as they can. The last boats are going straight from the commissioning ceremony to the knackers yard.

  16. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Give them to Ukraine and have them do battle with the Black Sea Fleet

  17. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Outfit them with box launchers for cruise missiles
    >Use them for drug interdiction and precision strikes on groups of illegal aliens attempting to cross into the US

  18. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe reassign some of them to the coast guard for drug interdiction in the Caribbean?
    I feel like they'd be pretty well suited to that.

  19. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Give me complete control of the US Navy and the number of $ I write down and I will gladly find a good use for them. It may not be a great use, but they won't be worthless.

  20. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Ladies, Gentlemen, and Xirs, the mission is to sail this bad boy to the Gulf of Bengal. There, we will land on the shores of Bangladesh, where will we undertake the mission to let it be climbed upon by a literal swarm of jeets and be dismantled into scrap metals.
    >Please exfiltrate your belongings from the lockers before the mission starts.

  21. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    it's the most advanced and capable minesweeper ever built

  22. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Aren't these actually not a bad match for USA's planned repeat of South Pacific island hopping campaign but against China instead of Japan? Couldn't they at least be fast and shallow water logistics, that due to shallow draft could work with minimal docking/transfer infrastructure?

    They are supersized fast attack craft aka small missile boat with next to no self defense ability. They were built as pure grift with no intention to deliver something that is useable.

  23. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    > Aren't these actually not a bad match for USA's planned repeat of South Pacific island hopping campaign

    Needs a dock to load/unload, so someone has to capture that first for the Marines to disembark, which means you didn't need the Marines. It's some sort of paradox.

  24. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Commit a Gulf of Tonkin incident in South China See
    >China did it, they touched the boats
    >China decides 'frick it, we were already saying we were gonna do it'
    >China bum rushes Taiwan
    >Deploy dumb ass LCS to get sunk on purpose by the chinks
    There, problem solved, now no one has to look at these ugly things anymore and only at the cost of starting World War III
    We can keep the ones that look like the top picture though

  25. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Remove helipad and garage. Toss in 16" battleship level guns on the back. Cheap glass cannons.

  26. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Give them to Taiwan and the Philippines

    They're still capable ships and will spook Chyna

  27. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    BTW, did they actually fix the Freedom’s combiner gear? Back in 2021 the Navy announced they won’t take delivery of any more of the class until the issue was fixed and then it would take several months to retrofit existing hulls. Recently though the Navy HAS taken delivery of the last boats and the shipyard has moved on to the Constellation. So…did they actually fix the combiner gear? I assume so but there’s no news to that effect that I could find.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      IIRC the oldest one to get the update is Wichita (LSC-13). The ones that have already been decommed didn't receive it, and will likely only receive it once a (potential) foreign buyer pays at least part of the installation cost.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >LSC-13
        *LCS-13

  28. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I don't see what the issue is. Just keep them around for defending the coast, so they rest of the Navy is free to blow up stuff elsewhere.

  29. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The mission is the USN keeps pouring money into the Independence class till its a fully mature design. Dump it. Then the RAN buys it off Austal to replace the Arafura's.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >USN keeps pouring money into the Independence class till its a fully mature design
      Why would they dump a functional design? The USN still needs something smaller than the Constellations.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The USN still needs something smaller than the Constellations.
        Says who?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Says the USN, who intends to use the Freedoms as replacement for the Cyclones, and the Indeps as replacements for the Avengers.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            NAYRT but that's just them trying to make use of the crap they've been given. Realistically, he LCS are overengineered for coastie and MCM work.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              That is fundamentally true, they're oversized/overdesigned/overpriced/overeverything for what they ended up doing. But they're here, they sort of work (after a couple more remedial updates), so it's what the USN uses. No point dumping them completely and starting from scratch yet again.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Well they did decommission the first 4 Freedom-class boats and the first 2 Independance-class boats because it would've been too expensive to bring them up to a combat standard compared to the currently constructed boats. Even though they're all less than 15 years old.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                They've actually decommissioned, or planning to, a lot more. Five Freedoms are decommed in total, and a sixth is used exclusively as a test platform. And the Navy wants to decomm 2 more Indeps (bringing the total to 4) at the end of 2024.

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Gift them to Argentina and tell them they can have an economy when they sink the Chinese fishing fleet.

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Base them in the baltic sea.

  32. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    order 40 more of them solely to fund our moronicly fricked naval industry

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