I can already tell this thing isn't gonna pass field trials. >Infantry will find a way to break the folding stock mechanism >Infantry will not only bend that ultra thin M-lok rail, but they'll bend the railed receiver extension it mounts onto, making the entire upper receiver unusable
If this thing gets adopted en-masse and becomes standard, I expect it to adopt a quad-rail handguard and ditch the folding stock.
Weight and cost. It's much cheaper and faster to extrude a simple profile tube and just cut long slots in it than it is to extrude a complex profile tube, machine out the upper and lower geometries for the pic rail shoulders, and then notch out the rail sections and then debur the entire thing.
MLOK can also just be turned into a pic rail with the addition of rail segments or simply reinforced using long, simple joiner sections that can be bolted on, if required.
>Infantry will find a way to break the folding stock mechanism
Why do you dumbasses always say this? Most of the first world and plenty of second world countries have folding stocks on service rifles and it’s not a problem.
Stop spewing bullshit and get back to being dead Pierre Sprey.
Well if you're wanting a ~$2500 AR, by all means enjoy. Should be available at least in the US as of the past few weeks
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I want it in .300 blk >:
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Well it's available in a 9" SBR (though it might be 11.5" if it's matching the 5.56 model, their product page might just be inaccurate) or 9" Pistol at the moment. I think they're also supposed to have a 16" non-SBR version at some point.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
9" length is most certainly better imo, that would be my goto choice. I wouldn't bother with a 16" ver.
Spear LT is so much cuter than her older sister. Too bad it's 2500+ and out of stock every where, would love to get
https://i.imgur.com/QySqNxW.png
Well it's available in a 9" SBR (though it might be 11.5" if it's matching the 5.56 model, their product page might just be inaccurate) or 9" Pistol at the moment. I think they're also supposed to have a 16" non-SBR version at some point.
Were thinking the same page 🙂
I really want the 9" in .300 blk and I would buy this stock for it.
It's honestly a goddamn shame the P320 soiled Sig's reputation because the MCX is a genuinely good gun. My LGS has only ever had one in stock and it was during the height of coof and the Fentanyl Floyd riots so they wanted $4000 for it. I'd rather buy a SR-25 or SCAR-H for that price.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
You'd never find an SR-25 for that price, though you can get a SCAR for ~$3600-4000 at the moment.
That being said, the 7.62x51 MCX SPEAR is available now for ~$4200, though they're sold out everywhere and probably will be for the next year or two.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Remember when the Hellion came out? And it was going for $2k and more. Then months to a year later, its averaging around $1,500 to $1,700.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Lol yeah, well considering this was $6100 the other day, and $8000 on its early limited edition release, I don't think it'll drop TOO much, maybe $500-750 cheaper in the next year or two on sale.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The difference is there is actual demand for the Spear. The VHS was only sought after by e-celebs looking for their latest grift piece.
Are Americans really a bunch of dumb moron mutts to the point that they cant use anything more complex and modern than a civil war rifle? God, actual white Germanic European military soldiers can adapt to these new rifles under a single week.
After doing shooting competitions with German, Finnish, Polish, Hungarian, and French Soldiers, all I can say is lol to that. Euros are shit tier marksmen if we speak in averages.
you motherfuckers aren't even close to marksmanship compared to the US, whats the point of knowing where all your buttons are if you can't hit the broadside of a barn at 10 feet. learn to shoot dumb ass, thats how effective suppressive fire and kills are earned.
I understand that Marines are particularly famous for it but honestly it applies equally to the general public. If it can be broken, they will break it.
Well they apparently were involved in the testing phase during development so marines had their chance to break it and SIG had a chance to fix what they broke.
Twenty bucks says if it actually got to the infantrymen, they’d find some way too fuck up, misplace or just misuse the fancy systems they added. Idiot-proof it as hard as you can, Mother Nature just makes a bigger idiot.
no, that was more HK trying to garden gnome the Hispanics out of some more money half way through the setup phase. So they said fuck it we'll make our own with black jack and hookers
fx 05 recoil its fucking nice, and managable in full auto
i wish we could get one for civilians down here
rumor says we will be able to buy them in the future but idk
no, that was more HK trying to garden gnome the Hispanics out of some more money half way through the setup phase. So they said fuck it we'll make our own with black jack and hookers
I heard the G36 did encounter some overheating problems in Mexico testing, thus why the FX-05 exists though.
>this shit over g36
I will NEVER forgive the germans for replacing the g36 even if their retarded fuddlore about it came true.
Didn't Steyr make an aluminum version of the G36? Called the G62 iirc.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
yes
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Sure thing, Paco.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I really love reading stories about HK getting assblasted on losing mil contracts
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Got any pic/additional info of the mexican modified G36s?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
[...]
[...]
[...]
no, that was more HK trying to garden gnome the Hispanics out of some more money half way through the setup phase. So they said fuck it we'll make our own with black jack and hookers
fx 05 recoil its fucking nice, and managable in full auto
i wish we could get one for civilians down here
rumor says we will be able to buy them in the future but idk
I really love reading stories about HK getting assblasted on losing mil contracts
>I will NEVER forgive the germans for replacing the g36 even if their retarded fuddlore about it came true.
I will NEVER forgive the germans for forcibly standardizing g36 mags onto European civilian markets, and then just ditching it all scheming in the background to adapt an AR instead
I just got some range time yesterday on one of the very few .277 Spears. >pic related
I was not overly impressed with the rifle truthfully. Myself and a few others took turns spending some time on the range with it. I will say the first thing we all noted was that the rifle was extremely heavy. If I had to guess probably somewhere around 13-14lbs with optic, suppressor, and full mag. This did however directly translate to recoil on par with 5.56 out of a 20in AR. The side charging handle is extremely awkward to use as is the traditional AR pattern charging handle just due to the weight and size. One malfunction we all noted was that if you attempt to take out a magazine that isn’t empty when you rack the charging handle to remove the round from the chamber it has a very bad habit of getting lodged between the bolt and the ejection port requiring you to use the side charging handle in a really aggressive manner in order to remove the round. Overall I don’t think this rifle will be in service long. The round is cool though.
>The side charging handle is extremely awkward to use as is the traditional AR pattern charging handle just due to the weight and size.
Seems like a problem with you being a bitch.
At least the price, while expensive, isn't as absurd as some people were saying it would be.
Well it's available in a 9" SBR (though it might be 11.5" if it's matching the 5.56 model, their product page might just be inaccurate) or 9" Pistol at the moment. I think they're also supposed to have a 16" non-SBR version at some point.
Why the fuck does this retarded non-argument still come up in these threads? Do the people who post it even believe it's valid at this point?
If a rifle is just as effective for everything you want to do with it but is lighter, the ammo is lighter and smaller so you can carry more of it, and it's cheaper, why in the goddamn fuck would you choose the heavier one for any reason? It's not even relevant how strong you are, the lighter cheaper equipment is obviously better.
You don't even have the NGSW optic and firing system
Yet you talk like you are smarter and more experience than actual combat veterans and military engineers on what constitutes a next generation squad rifle
You talk like your opinion an incomplete, civilian version of a rifle without the issued ammunition or high tech firing system has any significance whatsoever to the decisions of the US military
You are shit on it because you are a fraud, a charlatan, and an attention-seeker, plain and simple. I doubt you have even witnessed a firefight and would shit your pants if you did.
You talk like your opinion on* an incomplete, civilian version of a rifle without the issued ammunition or high tech firing system has any significance whatsoever to the decisions of the US military
because they're fat manlets. the whole >tall elves pack light, stout dwarves make little of burden
idea is completely real. tall (normal) human beings detest burdens because they notice it affecting their high-level mobility, whereas the fat manlets have never run double digits so an extra 10lbs on their rifle won't be noticable to them, a race that knows not 100% exertion
He'll now make up excuses for how none of the extra performance offered by the new rifle is useful for a military.
And some retard will probably chime in about how it's for killing American civilians in level 4 plates despite the fact the military already has rifle ammo to do that.
He'll now make up excuses for how none of the extra performance offered by the new rifle is useful for a military.
And some retard will probably chime in about how it's for killing American civilians in level 4 plates despite the fact the military already has rifle ammo to do that.
It's true though. Modern infantry doesn't fight at distances where the extra performance matters as much as maneuverability and control.
Do the NGSW stuff defeat lvl 4?
No, it doesn't, which is another reason the whole idea is stupid. Even within practical combat ranges the extra penetration on human targets won't matter. It's completely pointless.
To change that average. The thinking behind this is doubtless that you could engage at greater ranges, and kill more effectively at greater ranges, with a better tool. Hence not just a new rifle but a fancy new scope too.
That average isn't because of capability. Soldiers aren't engaging at those ranges because it's impractical and unrealistic due to environmental and mixed unit tactics reasons, not because an AR can't reach 400 meters. It's hard to see that far in the first place because of obstacles like trees and buildings and geographical features, and then even if you did somehow know there was an enemy unit 1000 meters away why wouldn't you just call a drone or artillery for that?
Why would that matter to a modern .308/6.5/6.8 rifle with modern optics, a squad with drone surveillance and maybe even a small handheld drone controlled by someone in the squad itself for direct local recon.
I agree it's probably not AS useful as some people on here are saying, but you can't expect to bring up WWII era rifles and not mention the VAST difference in everything else that would more easily allow for longer engagement ranges.
Again, I'm not defending the XM7 here, just saying the idea in and of itself isn't complete retardation, and pretending we're still in WWII just makes you look stupid.
I imagine this is what most of you circumcised golems look like, fat, flabby, pasty white skin - utterly embarassing. SIG hat surely hiding a balding head.
empty weight is only 2 lbs heavier than the m4. most of it comes from the accessories which is a given on any rifle so its irrelevant to complain about.
Supposedly the suppressor alone is ~1.3lbs and I believe this is the first time the US Army will be issuing suppressors standard with every rifle, so that alone would add weight regardless of if you're using 5.56 or not.
Fulled kitted out M4 is like 9 lbs. This pig will weight 13-14 lbs. A 4-5 lb difference is massive on a shouldered rifle, especially when the cutoff that most people think is heavy when you surpass it, is 10 lbs.
> Fulled kitted out M4 is like 9 lbs
lol no
With a full mag you're already at just shy of 8lbs, throw optics, PEQ, suppressor, etc. and you can fairly easily break 10lbs on a kitted out M4.
Do retards itt seriously not understand that a 14lb rifle is completely unacceptable as your standard issue infantry weapon that needs to be used for urban combat, room clearing, suppression etc? It's not supposed to be a DMR. This thing is going the way of the SCAR
The whole point of the program is to make a rifle for every role from muzzle contact distance to 1000m. It's the typical "solution to the last war thing", but at least this time it's because the last war was practice for the next war (urban occupation then scattered resistance in remote mountainous areas vs people with body armor and ar-15s)
Why the fuck do you idiots keep regurgitating this martial law fantasy? >hurr durr the rifle is designed to be more effective against an diverse force with last generation equipment
Soooo, basically the point of every next gen weapons system. Got it.
Moron.
Why do you gaggots get so assblasted every time someone points out that this is a viable role for a weapon being developed to replace a small arms pipeline that is perfectly sufficient for pretty much every other scenario
>every other scenario
Are you seriously implying the Nasty Girls are worried because Joe Blow Sixpack is rocking RMAs with no side plates? Motherfucker, a shooting war pops off stateside and they'll be on top of that Humvee with fucking beltfeds. That cone of fire doesn't give a shit about your NIJ rating. We saw them do it back in the Summer of Love when they were chewing up apartments and little girls with .50s.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'm seriously implying that a mostly static defensive force shifting to ever lower quality pool of troops focusing on infrastructure protection and urban center control is absolutely an end user for this kind of shift in small arms after lessons learned in two theaters, one which was a perfect test bed for urban occupation LIC and remote threat small cell/decentralized guerilla insurgency. If you spent five fucking minutes in either space you'd concede there is merit to the argument. Yes. A large part of changing the ammo, complicating its manufacturing, augmenting and boosting the assists on the optics package, outranging the most prolific weapon on domestic soil, etc are all considerations of the ngsw program.
Because every generation is meant to be better than the last, including against (domestic) insurgencies. The last generation "being sufficient for pretty much every other scenario" means there is room for improvement in EVERY area it could be fielded. It's the same reason why the F-35 was developed to replace the F-16. The F-16 is sufficient in most scenarios but the F-35 is better overall.
If the XM7 is (supposedly) superior overall it is therefore reasonable to imagine it is superior against (domestic) insurgencies. However, to say it must have been designed specifically to counter (domestic) insurgencies because of this is backwards reasoning and ignores the actual design purpose: to be a better goddamn rifle.
This persecution complex that the US gov't is intentionally designing weapons to kill citizens corrupts your judgment.
>designed specifically to counter (domestic) insurgencies
I actually don't disagree with your post, and if you look back I said it was a consideration, not the absolute reason behind the program. Just because the scenario I outlined applies accurately to the United States doesn't mean I'm solely claiming it is for domestic counter insurgency. Things can be done for multiple reasons and scenarios all at once. Yes 100% I believe one of those considerations is for domestic threats.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
The point of contention is that the >next war
in which the US military will be involved is not going to be the >urban occupation then scattered resistance in remote mountainous areas vs people with body armor and ar-15s
fantasy that larpers love to rehearse for. The writing on the wall point us to a neer-peer conflict over pacific spheres of influence
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Again I ask why you and those like you get so assblasted over this idea and the fact that yes there are plenty of DHS and DOD documents, PowerPoints and thus considerations for internal threats on the homefront and that doctrine and procurement directly considers these things when deciding on courses of action.
Do you really think it's inconceivable in the next week to 10 years there could be some degree of diffuse LIC in the US?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Do you really think it's inconceivable in the next week to 10 years there could be some degree of diffuse LIC in the US?
To the scale that the main body of the US military will get directly involved in protracted campaigns against US civilians, without completely collapsing in on itself first? Yes. Accelerationists like you don't quite grasp the gravity of another civil war and how it would destroy the way of life of everyone here. The vast majority of people in this country would rather roll over and surrender their rights than bite the hand that feeds them the luxuries of the most advanced country on earth. Call it demoralization or whatever you want, but when push comes to shove I sincerely believe Americans will comply.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>US military will get directly involved in protracted campaigns against US civilians
Spend a little more time around actual combatants instead of sitting behind your desk all day. Learn what diffuse LIC and policing actions entail. And continue to (willfully) ignore the "things are done for multiple reasons with variable weighting"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Speak for yourself. We saw what the national level coordination resulted in on Jan 6: abject failure. If you genuinely think "we'll do better next time!" Be my guest and cast the first stone. And you can continue to (willfully) mistake the forest for the trees.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
> urban occupation LIC > If you spent five fucking mI know, let's give everyone a magnum battle rifle for urban occupation > If you spent 5 fucking minutes in either space
I'll concede you argued against your own thesis here, anon. 20 round mags of .260 Wby Mag recoil over 30 rounds of 5.56 is not what I would have picked if you made me go into some damn apartment building.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Summer of Love when they were chewing up apartments and little girls with .50s
Medication
Because every generation is meant to be better than the last, including against (domestic) insurgencies. The last generation "being sufficient for pretty much every other scenario" means there is room for improvement in EVERY area it could be fielded. It's the same reason why the F-35 was developed to replace the F-16. The F-16 is sufficient in most scenarios but the F-35 is better overall.
If the XM7 is (supposedly) superior overall it is therefore reasonable to imagine it is superior against (domestic) insurgencies. However, to say it must have been designed specifically to counter (domestic) insurgencies because of this is backwards reasoning and ignores the actual design purpose: to be a better goddamn rifle.
This persecution complex that the US gov't is intentionally designing weapons to kill citizens corrupts your judgment.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>This persecution complex that the US gov't is intentionally designing weapons to kill citizens corrupts your judgment.
Hold on, let me put my sunglasses cause all this brightness is blinding me.
>(urban occupation then scattered resistance in remote mountainous areas vs people with body armor and ar-15s)
Which is strange since it's not gonna help them one bit 🙂
"Ounces matter" is a foreign fucking concept to most of us, because we don't hump a rifle + soldier's load for a paycheck. Same reason you got guys on here parroting 6+1 with zero understanding of why.
It weighs 8.38lbs with a mag inserted per actual scales. This is psychological or from being out of shape or both.
Do retards itt seriously not understand that a 14lb rifle is completely unacceptable as your standard issue infantry weapon that needs to be used for urban combat, room clearing, suppression etc? It's not supposed to be a DMR. This thing is going the way of the SCAR
Good thing it's a bit over half that weight then lol.
>around 13-14lbs with optic, suppressor, and full mag
It really is a fucking BAR.
The BAR was also used effectively by 130lb Depression babies who grew up on lentils who were in a far less mechanized force and had to walk everywhere.
People today aren't just fat, they have never done significant physical labor and do get injured easily and underestimate adaptation.
I mean, with a can, ammo in the mag, optic on top, and assuming potentially 1 or 2 other small accessories and you can easily hit ~13.5-14lbs on the XM7.
>The BAR was also used effectively
Not nearly as effectively as they'd have used an m4 though, right?
I get it, my man. Miley is on record to congress back in 2017 saying they needed to punch holes through plates. If that's the name of the game, then 11Bs get to suck it up carrying more weight for less ammo.
But we still haven't seen that general issue ammo pen those plates. If that shit doesn't materialize, fuck rolling back to an upjumped m14 for shooting at palm fronds off Taiwan or wherever. Just keep the m4s for the assault element and let she support element have them bitching new beltfeds.
The full weight for milspec is 9.82lbs, that's with a suppressor and smart optic.
Your weight assumptions are incorrect. The optic weighs 21oz, the rifle filled loaded with .277 weighs in at a hair under 9.5lbs, the suppressor weighs 19.4oz, take all that and add it up you’re now looking at a rifle that weighs in right around 12lbs with absolutely no other furniture like a PEQ, Bipod, or any other multitude of furniture that may be used by military personnel. So yes, though my claim of a 13lb rifle is incorrect I’m off by approximately one pound. My claim was never that the rifle was unable to be lifted as many of you have misread. Simply that compared to a fully loaded M4 at 7.8 lbs it’s quite a significant weight increase. >t. Guy in picture
>The BAR was also used effectively
yeah it can be used effectively but that doesn't make it optimal
everyone back then also bitched about the bar weight, bipod being too heavy, the thompsons weight (only 10 lbs and compact btw)
this is also disingenuous because combat loads in ww2 were much less than they are now
you can live without a kidney too
It is honestly depressing how retarded this board is these days. People responding to service rifle that weighs 14 pounds with “lift more lmao” might genuinely get in positions of power or management one day and that scares me
Sounds like the ejection port isn't big enough. Weird how something in this position would have that issue, you'd think sig would have figured that out pretty early unless they literally never manually cycled with ammo loaded.
The weight is going to be a problem. It's pretty clear this isn't actually going to be general issue but if it's heavier than an SR-25 with the same optic, why bother? Make a barrel for the SR-25 and stick the optic on it. That and a piston are the only significant differences anyway.
>the vengeful ghost of the afghan war
please go back with your new Ultra-Giga-Killer XXLBBQ in 6.8 Hipster (its totally different from old full powered rifle rounds guys, pls stop laughing its not just a hipster 30-06) so we can see you fail to kill sheep fucking farmers wielding fucking WW2 Equipment for the third time mutt, its gonna be funny
Afghanistan was a complete fucking failure, and a waste of our time, money, and men. The current stock of infantry recruits coming in are too retarded and weak to use this obsolescent implement effectively.
Lessons from Afghanistan are not necessarily shit, however. The failure with Afghanistan, just as Vietnam before it, lay in strategy. But improving weapons with lessons learned there isn't, and shouldn't be accused of being, stupid.
The failure is that we tried to half-assedly brute force a solution, without first fully understanding what the problem is, and sticking to one goal only. Reintroducing a battle rifle is not an improvement, but it ultimately doesn't matter anymore when you could just call in airstrikes.
If that gun comes in at less than or equal to 7lbs it looks to be a much better gun. I love how FN was like “yeah, the US army thinks it knows what it wants, but rather than build to their silly specs, lets not enter that competition and instead let the lab coat sporting high forehead types in RnD come up with novel solutions to small arms problems”.
If that gun comes in at less than or equal to 7lbs it looks to be a much better gun. I love how FN was like “yeah, the US army thinks it knows what it wants, but rather than build to their silly specs, lets not enter that competition and instead let the lab coat sporting high forehead types in RnD come up with novel solutions to small arms problems”.
https://i.imgur.com/aFSDPOJ.jpg
*Teleports behind you*
Heh, nothing personal kid.
One day you might come to actually like real rifles, don't worry about it too much.
Apparently a fully loaded 25 round magazine weighs the same as a 30 round 5.56 magazine and according to the link above the whole system weighs less than 8lbs. I don't know if that's included with loaded mag+optic+suppressor but I'd be willing to bet the weight of the gun is on par with most M4s, while gaining increased energy at range at the expense of only 35 less rounds in a standard 6+1 combat loadout (175 rounds total) vs 70 less rounds when compared to the SIG XM5/XM7 (140 rounds total).
With a negligible increase in weight/bulk if you go to a 7+1 standard loadout in lieu of 6+1 you get 200 rounds. Only ten rounds less when compared to a standard M4 loadout. You'd need a 9+1 loadout with the XM5/XM7 to get the same amount of ammunition.
whats that lever doing? It's not on the other side
https://i.imgur.com/aFSDPOJ.jpg
*Teleports behind you*
Heh, nothing personal kid.
, which is weird because not ambidextrous.
And is it known if what I assume is the BHO can be moved up AND down to either lock the bolt back manually or down to release the bolt?
If that gun comes in at less than or equal to 7lbs it looks to be a much better gun. I love how FN was like “yeah, the US army thinks it knows what it wants, but rather than build to their silly specs, lets not enter that competition and instead let the lab coat sporting high forehead types in RnD come up with novel solutions to small arms problems”.
Apparently a fully loaded 25 round magazine weighs the same as a 30 round 5.56 magazine and according to the link above the whole system weighs less than 8lbs. I don't know if that's included with loaded mag+optic+suppressor but I'd be willing to bet the weight of the gun is on par with most M4s, while gaining increased energy at range at the expense of only 35 less rounds in a standard 6+1 combat loadout (175 rounds total) vs 70 less rounds when compared to the SIG XM5/XM7 (140 rounds total).
With a negligible increase in weight/bulk if you go to a 7+1 standard loadout in lieu of 6+1 you get 200 rounds. Only ten rounds less when compared to a standard M4 loadout. You'd need a 9+1 loadout with the XM5/XM7 to get the same amount of ammunition.
They're hoping for a SOCOM contract. SOCOM usually rolls their own gear and they tend to value mobility over weight, so it's possible that they will not adopt the XM7.
which isn't really solved, as the .308 chamber would be significantly longer than the .277 at the L1, I wouldn't trust a grunt to not just hit the forward assist/charging handle/whatever and force the bolt shut. the only thing keeping .277 from being chambered is being 0.007 thicker at the shoulder.
Wow! Things that no soldier has yet to complain about and are only brought up by armchair generals (ie. you) and vetbro youtubers whose only firearm experience is passing quals. Go lift weights, you skinnyfat gay.
Mmm, never said that, moron. I said they did not complain about the weight of the Spear. Now go lift, manlet, lest you develop spinal problems from carrying your LCP.
Not him but no soldier ever complained about having to haul heavier equipment? People can lift heavier guns like LMGs. That doesn’t mean it’s fun lugging them around, especially the large portion of time they’re not firing it.
>yet
Hopefully they never will because cooler heads will prevail and drop this hot turd before its even crapped out. Lifting weights doesn't make the gun any less of a heavy POS. Sure won't make you any less of a bought-and-paid-for gay shill
FX-05 actually fixed all the craptastic German autism that was wrong with the G36 and only kept the general style.
Heinie got buttmad and tried to sue the beaners for copying the G36 but got BTFO in court.
My big regret is I cant buy the FX right now. Youd think Mexicans would spot an opportunity and ship them Norte as semi autos but no
The whole program is just a huge contract grift with the main purpose of moving to a new caliber and fucking people out of surplus ammunition. The ultimate goal is to severely cuck their capability to acquire ammo.
Then why is the lake city ammo production facility not replacing the 5.56/7.62 production lines with 6.8x51?
Instead they're building a WHOLE new building just for the 6.8x51 production so they can keep the existing 5.56/7.62 lines running without reducing the output capacity.
>clearly it's to ruin our ability to acquire 5.56 >5.56 production remains unchanged >yeah well obviously it only looks that way on the surface :^)
wew, if you're just gonna invent new fantasies to fit your narrative everytime you're proven wrong, there isn't much point continuing here.
You're trying way too hard glowmoron gay. my favorite incidence of blowback from this latest big brain idea from the best and brightest is going to see how all the technowizard bullshit in the world can't pad an 85iq baseline
lmao, so when you have no proof of whatever inane bullshit you're spreading you just call me a glowie
wewlad.
Here, seethe more gay.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>no proof >20 years of war >Internal and publicly available documents >Specific criteria of ngsw program include things applicable to US civilians
I argue with strawmanning bad faith gays like you because it makes me chuckle. you're going to be one of the slaves, fag
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
moron shut the fuck up, show me ANYWHERE the NGSW program requirements include things applicable to US civilians.
If we want to bust lvl 4 plates, we ALREADY HAVE M993 and M995.
Further, we likely already have a PRETTY good idea who in this country is well armed, and who has level 3 and level 4 rated rifle plates, especially anyone with a large stock of them.
It would be TRIVIAL to get rid of these people BEFORE some sort of military take over, the fantasy that the government needs 6.8x51 and the XM7 to do it is just so fucking absurd it belies belief.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>belies belief
It defies belief fucking autocorrect.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Effective range >Muzzle velocity >Gatekept (overcomplicated) ammo >Optics package >Weight makes it optimal for static and mounted operations
There is a few. Meanwhile, your strawman insistence that I'm saying it is uniquely for scenario X vs considerations/follow on benefits in event of X+Y+Z plus ripping off tax payers plus giving technonerds a boner vs typical fighting the last war old disconnected flagstaff decision makers vs SIG lobbying scumbaggery vs SIG typical underbid then overcharge for ancillary products and support etc etc etc
Speak for yourself. We saw what the national level coordination resulted in on Jan 6: abject failure. If you genuinely think "we'll do better next time!" Be my guest and cast the first stone. And you can continue to (willfully) mistake the forest for the trees.
>Jan 6
Turn off the TV and lay off the weed dipshit. It makes it hard to think about anything more than 2 hrs removed.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So you're a fucking moron.
Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle.
God damn, why do people like you not just have a nice day and save the rest of us the trouble of taking you out later when you finally snap.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle.
Do you cocksuckers think if you say something with feigned authority and repeatedly it manifests? Did all of you cumgarglers have to read the secret as mandatory material? Explain to me how an effective range of greater than 1000m with first hit probability percentage metrics weren't part of the ngsw criteria.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Again moron, I never said they WEREN'T part of the requirements, what I'm saying is that those requirements OBVIOUSLY also clearly apply to an infantry rifle to be used against peer militaries.
To say the ONLY use for that is to kill US civilians is fucking retarded.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
> >I never said they WEREN'T part of the requirement
Really? >Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle
>To say the ONLY use for that
How many times are you going to say this you fucking cunt, when I explicitly and repeatedly ID it isn't the ONLY reason but it (domestic) sure as shit is ONE of the reasons? Again to my original question, why are you gays so assblasted whenever someone IDs domestic armed civilians as a consideration of near peer advisary as IDed in your own fucking reporting/shrill clamoring for reactionary budget? Are you that ego protective that the plebs having to be considered at all ratfucks your brains that much?
>resorts to (inaccurate) shitflinging
Lol. Lmao, even.
What's inaccurate? Did your boyfriend come down to your cubicle upset needing some support to deal with meanies on PrepHole simply discussing the fact that NGSW is a clusterfuck and nothing good seems to come of it for the american people? Btw True Velocity should have won, dicksuckers
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>>Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle
That's sarcasm my dude
The stress on ANYTHING means the opposite.
Again, the idea this gun was bought to take out Americans is so fucking stupid you should feel ashamed for even thinking it made sense. Whoever fed you this bullshit is a fucking idiot, and the fact you ate it up just shows you're also a fucking idiot.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Again, the idea this gun was bought to take out Americans is so fucking stupid >Single reason >One >Uno senor
And again. Back to task. Yup 1000000% it is A consideration. Not THE consideration
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Again, the idea this gun was bought to take out Americans is so fucking stupid you should feel ashamed for even thinking it made sense.
Try harder, fed.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Damn bro calm down before you hurt yourself making all this shit up in your head. I know the liberals live there rent free but you're starting to hallucinate. >TV should have won
Finally, something we can agree on.
Quick. Bring up aliens using holograms to teleport holocaust survivors in to WTC 7
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Again to my original question, why are you gays so assblasted whenever someone IDs domestic armed civilians as a consideration of near peer advisary
Because if I was intent on murdering US insurgents in an urban LIC scenario, I damn sure wouldn't opt for a .308 gas gun over a 5.56 rifle, and I'd be even less likely to issue a 6.8x51 rifle in mass. If anything, MOUT is a significant argument for keeping 5.56.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Seriously, who the fuck thinks a 14lbs battle rifle is the ideal gun for door kicking in the suburbs and cities?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And if you were to have to do so in a remote mountainous area like theater 2 after the urban policing was well under control and now remote resource extraction and vital infrastructure static defense was a priority?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Drones, bro. If the army is not working on a new MOS specifically for integrating recon drones armed with drop munitions and thermal/infared cameras at the platoon level, they soon will be. Manmade horrors beyond my comprehension at that point.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Drones >Bridges >Tunnels >Highways
It's almost like there is a weapon system package being designed to work in concert with such horrors
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why not just talk about your plans after the nuclear war?
Or the Zombie appocolyps?
Like come the fuck on, do you actually expect to be taken seriously when you're talking about what amounts to the end of modern civilization for 90%+ of the population?
Why are you worrying about something that isn't going to happen, and if it does you're gonna be dead anyway.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Your egocentrism is on display. Me autistically insisting that part of the weighting of the ngsw program included increased lethality and qualitative edge over current equipment in the hands of THE GOVERNMENTS OWN WORDS potential future domestic threats has nothing to do with what I think the impact will be on me or what the state of society will be by the time this kind of consideration has to be tested in reality. You have Kleenex at your desk. It can be on call to serve as both a tissue and a cumrag, circumstance depending.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Having read this whole shitshow, I declare you the victor
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>resorts to (inaccurate) shitflinging
Lol. Lmao, even.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It would be TRIVIAL to get rid of these people BEFORE some sort of military take over
It sure would, glow buddy.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
So, you're doing it for free which is even worse.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>lives within 30 miles of the pentagon, CIA, NSA, DHS, etc. >doing it for free
if you say so
>Instead they're building a WHOLE new building just for the 6.8x51 production so they can keep the existing 5.56/7.62 lines running without reducing the output capacity.
I'll believe it when I see the the order for the machinery go through.
LC has tried to get the wheel turning on an extension for more than a decade now, because they've been using every square inch they have available since the 80's. In the 00's and 10's they got new machinery, but that was to replace workers they couldn't retain, and because they have lines all the way from the 60's that they're making replacement parts for, in house, thst because the old guys retired, nobody knew how to run.
This whole fucking thing reeks of F35, especially since adoption and budgets were rapidly passed not a week after Orange Man left office.
>mostly static defensive force >lessons learned in two theaters >one which was a perfect test bed for urban occupation LIC and remote threat small cell/decentralized guerilla insurgency >one >uno
There's that number again
Just posting the coolest ngsw gun that will never see the light of day. Fuck steyr or Australia, the aug has so many improvements and we dont get any of them in the states.
This thing is cool as hell.It's not going to replace the m4 but It will be great for people who need to go and get rid of a security team or something where you know there will be a couple of people in plate armor that need to die ASAP. It also seems to make shills and Pajeeta's so mad they need a vist from the Doc, so you know it has to be liquid kino.
>Still no quick change barrels?
By request of the army, yes.
SIG still offers the LMG platform with a quick change barrel to other military/government customers that want it. The US army was pretty adamant about its removal though.
>By request of the army, yes.
What the fuck, army.
> m249, quick change barrel > Stoner '63, same > Knights LAMG, yep > Ultimax mk 3/4, yes
So what's the fucking theory here? Not my job, but the 240 is supposed to have a barrel swap every 2(!) minutes under rapid fire. I'm guessing 6.8x51 is a good bit hotter than 7.62x51.
Apparently they think they don't need them for some reason. On one hand, this means weight savings not carrying a spare. On the other hand, that means they won't have a spare when they need it the most. I'm siding with the second because I'm confused what space metal is used that won't make it super hot after long firing.
All.I can figure is that sustsined rate is listed as 100rds/min, while rapid is 200, for the m240. I dunno what the standard m249 loadout was, but it's probably safe to expect 50-75% of it with the m250.
So maybe the theory is simply they won't have the ammo to burn the barrels out anyway.
I think that's the idea, and any situation where you think you're going to need more ammo you call in close air support, artillery, etc to bring the rain and the small arms become much less of a factor.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
trading ammo for more targeting comms, designators, drones etc sounds smart until that support doesn't work/come
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And if you're in that scenario, the extra 1200 rounds of 5.56 and an extra barrel or two for the LMGs spread throughout the squad probably wouldn't be the difference between defeat and victory.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Support element won't be ditching the m240s or the m3s, last I heard. I don't know how often guys in the assault element actually humped a 249 during a movement, but I don't see how having a much lighter option is a bad thing there. That bitch was still 20+lbs loaded.
Imagine carrying that shit, plus additional belts of ammo on a split vest, plus armor, and all while doing the IMT hokey pokey across multiple football fields. And then some asshole pops his head up and you somehow have to shoot a heavy fucking 249 from the shoulder. Oof.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Is this why some PMCs use PKMs or lighter machineguns?
I hear that they plan on preferring precise aiming to suppress rather than more bullets but I find myself skeptical on having less bullets to fire all the same. Weight savings from carrying less but this whole NGSW thing tries giving soldiers less bullets to shoot,
Honestly 300 blackout needs to be the new standard given that most engagements will be close quarters where range isn't fucking necessary. Suppressed with subsonic ammo is the future.
I am starting to doubt 6.8 M5/M7 system because it doesn't matter how far or powerful your bullet can hit, if the solders aren't hitting targets because they don't know where to aim.
What we see very often in the field are soldiers just blindly shooting over cover because they don't want to get hit, but that prevents them from aiming. In these scenarios it is beneficial to have more ammo.
But if you know where to aim, the tactics change completely.
Which is why you now have a smart optic to calculate distance and drop near-instantly.
If you can take an accurate first shot at 500-800 meters that's going to be FAR more effective than the people you're shooting at who have to rely on iron sights or standard regular optics.
The only reason you're inclined to blindly shoot from cover is that you don't know where you're getting shot from, or you're aware the odds of you being accurate at that distance means it didn't matter if you blindly shot or not.
The entire point of the platform is to never be in that situation to begin with, and if you ARE in that situation it's because you put yourself there.
Good question, but since it's only (currently) being fielded among the close combat force (the proverbial tip of the spear) it should really only be given to well trained combat units.
Obviously only time will tell as we can't know what will happen in 6-18 months when the gun actually issued.
>Will these soldiers use the equipment right or fumble it under pressure?
Nope, they'll never be endlessly trained on it once received and will just go into battle like a blind dog
Jesus this thread is just one dumb take after another
If you overcomplicate systems, they tend to fail. In some cases it is acceptable (fighter jets, intelligence gathering, missiles) but for a field soldier? I wouldn't trust him taking care of himself, let alone expensive piece of equipment. This is also why I doubt all of this exo-suit power armor shit.
Is it weird that now that this gun isn't getting widespread adopted that I now want it? .270 caliber with 80k psi case pressure is really cool for the civilian market.
>now that this gun isn't getting widespread adopted
Says who? I mean, the army themselves only ever said they wanted ~120,000 guns in the next ~3-6 years. Which the XM7 is slated to deliver on.
It was never meant to be more widespread than that.
>8 moa at 300m
That's pretty damn accurate for a machinegun. Sig says their new one averages around 10 MOA and the 249 it's supposed to replace is something like 12-14 on average.
>Yep and?
No one wants to sacrifice capacity for ballistics in a general use weapon where the average engagement distance is under 50 yards. That was the first thing the pencil pushers got wrong and it will lead to the ultimate rejection of the meme round.
>Yep and?
People who actually walk around with weapon systems and who get into gunfights don't give a fuck if some pencil pusher is excited about the superior ballistics of a round if it means getting fewer rounds in their magazine, having more stout recoil slowing follow up shots, and not being able to carry as much ammo.
The neo-marxist US army is deeply retarded and also sponsored various projects like the SCAR that were received terribly and immediately rejected. The new meme round is going to be a barrel burner. It's going to destroy parts. Everything about it is silly.
It's obvious the point of the new meme round was to ban all military style weapons for civilians and then to immediately transition to the new meme round, cutting off the civilian supply chain. That was the point. Also, with the increased pressure and parts wear, weapons outside of the government supply chain would wear down quickly.
I have so much respect for SIG for designing both a handgun and rifle that have caused more seething and rage from obese gamers than any other firearms products released in the past 25 years.
There has never been more cringe clickbait exposes, essays written on forums, or shit flinged about a product that I can remember.
She's so based, she's truly the most based rifle of all time.
The best part is when Glockmorons cite the lawsuits against Sig and conveniently ignore how all of them were settled in Sig's favor or are still in limbo because the plaintiff's can't prove it was the gun's fault and can't replicate the alleged discharge as they described it. On top of that, two of the plaintiffs were even fucking retarded enough to ADMIT they put the gun, loaded, in a purse and a duffle bag, unholstered, with various other loose items inside said containers, and then threw and jostled the containers around. They bold faced admitted this and still thought they had a case. Honestly, I blame their attorneys more.
>honestly I blame their attorneys more
Most of my colleagues know almost nothing about guns. Which is why it gets particularly hilarious when they try to make technical gun arguments to jurys in my state, where more than 50% of households own at least one gun. There was just a murder case recently where one of the defendants brought in some better-call-saul-ass motherfucker from DC who tried to argue that one of the victims was the real shooter because he had a cut on his thumb that defense counsel was saying was slide bite. The murder weapon was a .223. They were found guilty within two hours of the jury going out lmao.
>There was just a murder case recently where one of the defendants brought in some better-call-saul-ass motherfucker from DC who tried to argue that one of the victims was the real shooter because he had a cut on his thumb that defense counsel was saying was slide bite. The murder weapon was a .223. They were found guilty within two hours of the jury going out lmao.
This sounds hilarious.
It was, the idiot had to hire two lawyers because when you bring a guy from out of state in pro hac vice you need local counsel too. And then the guy he went to all this trouble to bring in was a total clown and got absolutely mogged by the local guy that his co-defendant hired and the prosecutor. Whatever the guy paid him it was too much lol. Hope he got it up front because his client's gonna get life with parole when they sentence him in a month or so.
Do clients have any kind of say in the way the case is presented? Don't they work out what they're going to say in court ahead of time? Because I can't imagine being the client, hearing the lawyer was going to say that dumb shit, and not telling him the weapon was a rifle and the lawyer is retarded and needs to fuck off.
>garden gnomes don't neurotically bitch about everything including especially other things made by garden gnomes
No one cares about your subjective kvetching, garden gnome
YWNBARG
>YWNBARG
>ARG
>/ARG/
What did he mean by this?
It will never be an AR 😀
Rolling for your quranic wisdom, inshallah
barg
BARGAR
I can already tell this thing isn't gonna pass field trials.
>Infantry will find a way to break the folding stock mechanism
>Infantry will not only bend that ultra thin M-lok rail, but they'll bend the railed receiver extension it mounts onto, making the entire upper receiver unusable
If this thing gets adopted en-masse and becomes standard, I expect it to adopt a quad-rail handguard and ditch the folding stock.
Why does anyone NOT use a quad-rail? Modularity beats perfectionism every time (ask anyone on PrepHole what's better, Mac or Linux).
>Why does anyone NOT use a quad-rail?
Because this is actually going to be carried around so weight matters unlike for your LARPing at the range
Weight and cost. It's much cheaper and faster to extrude a simple profile tube and just cut long slots in it than it is to extrude a complex profile tube, machine out the upper and lower geometries for the pic rail shoulders, and then notch out the rail sections and then debur the entire thing.
MLOK can also just be turned into a pic rail with the addition of rail segments or simply reinforced using long, simple joiner sections that can be bolted on, if required.
Folding stocks and m-lok rails are very standard stuff, it'd be surprising if they actually managed to significantly fuck up something to simple.
>Infantry will find a way to break the folding stock mechanism
Why do you dumbasses always say this? Most of the first world and plenty of second world countries have folding stocks on service rifles and it’s not a problem.
Stop spewing bullshit and get back to being dead Pierre Sprey.
Oh sure folding stocks are fine, it's just that the ones on the MCX are really thin compared to every other folding stock out there.
are you talking about the tiny thin ones on the civilian MCX SPEAR-LT?
The folding stock used on the regular MCX SPEAR is much chunkier
I want the bottom one 🙂
Well if you're wanting a ~$2500 AR, by all means enjoy. Should be available at least in the US as of the past few weeks
I want it in .300 blk
>:
Well it's available in a 9" SBR (though it might be 11.5" if it's matching the 5.56 model, their product page might just be inaccurate) or 9" Pistol at the moment. I think they're also supposed to have a 16" non-SBR version at some point.
9" length is most certainly better imo, that would be my goto choice. I wouldn't bother with a 16" ver.
Bottom one looks more durable by a long shot
Spear LT is so much cuter than her older sister. Too bad it's 2500+ and out of stock every where, would love to get
Were thinking the same page 🙂
I really want the 9" in .300 blk and I would buy this stock for it.
That stock has been discontinued anon. Sorry.
It's honestly a goddamn shame the P320 soiled Sig's reputation because the MCX is a genuinely good gun. My LGS has only ever had one in stock and it was during the height of coof and the Fentanyl Floyd riots so they wanted $4000 for it. I'd rather buy a SR-25 or SCAR-H for that price.
You'd never find an SR-25 for that price, though you can get a SCAR for ~$3600-4000 at the moment.
That being said, the 7.62x51 MCX SPEAR is available now for ~$4200, though they're sold out everywhere and probably will be for the next year or two.
Remember when the Hellion came out? And it was going for $2k and more. Then months to a year later, its averaging around $1,500 to $1,700.
Lol yeah, well considering this was $6100 the other day, and $8000 on its early limited edition release, I don't think it'll drop TOO much, maybe $500-750 cheaper in the next year or two on sale.
The difference is there is actual demand for the Spear. The VHS was only sought after by e-celebs looking for their latest grift piece.
Honestly if I could justify spending the ~$7-8k before other accessories I wouldn't mind owning both.
SPEAR-LT in .300blk and then SPEAR in 6.5 or 6.8
Throw optic and cans on both and i'd be looking at $12,000 at the end of the day potentially more if I want some fancier optics on the 6.5/6.8 rifles.
>I can already tell this thing isn't gonna pass field trials
We're well past that
Are Americans really a bunch of dumb moron mutts to the point that they cant use anything more complex and modern than a civil war rifle? God, actual white Germanic European military soldiers can adapt to these new rifles under a single week.
post g36
After doing shooting competitions with German, Finnish, Polish, Hungarian, and French Soldiers, all I can say is lol to that. Euros are shit tier marksmen if we speak in averages.
you motherfuckers aren't even close to marksmanship compared to the US, whats the point of knowing where all your buttons are if you can't hit the broadside of a barn at 10 feet. learn to shoot dumb ass, thats how effective suppressive fire and kills are earned.
Is this the modern equivalent of not giving infantry full auto because they thought they'd waste it lol
Will we have a dumb burst option equivalent too?
I understand that Marines are particularly famous for it but honestly it applies equally to the general public. If it can be broken, they will break it.
What do marines have to do with it? Only the army bought the rifle (so far).
Well, Marines are particularly famous for breaking stuff.
Well they apparently were involved in the testing phase during development so marines had their chance to break it and SIG had a chance to fix what they broke.
Twenty bucks says if it actually got to the infantrymen, they’d find some way too fuck up, misplace or just misuse the fancy systems they added. Idiot-proof it as hard as you can, Mother Nature just makes a bigger idiot.
When will burger stop painting every gun in FDE?
You tell me hans
But I'm not a Kraut. And we never painted our service rifles in FDE.
>this shit over g36
I will NEVER forgive the germans for replacing the g36 even if their retarded fuddlore about it came true.
I heard the G36 did encounter some overheating problems in Mexico testing, thus why the FX-05 exists though.
no, that was more HK trying to garden gnome the Hispanics out of some more money half way through the setup phase. So they said fuck it we'll make our own with black jack and hookers
fx 05 recoil its fucking nice, and managable in full auto
i wish we could get one for civilians down here
rumor says we will be able to buy them in the future but idk
And to their credit, they succeeded.
Didn't Steyr make an aluminum version of the G36? Called the G62 iirc.
yes
Sure thing, Paco.
I really love reading stories about HK getting assblasted on losing mil contracts
Got any pic/additional info of the mexican modified G36s?
Where did you get one?
>I will NEVER forgive the germans for replacing the g36 even if their retarded fuddlore about it came true.
I will NEVER forgive the germans for forcibly standardizing g36 mags onto European civilian markets, and then just ditching it all scheming in the background to adapt an AR instead
As soon as it becomes practical to paint them olive drab
is was over when they renamed it to M7 and lost the M5/M250 number magic
fuck colt
I just got some range time yesterday on one of the very few .277 Spears.
>pic related
I was not overly impressed with the rifle truthfully. Myself and a few others took turns spending some time on the range with it. I will say the first thing we all noted was that the rifle was extremely heavy. If I had to guess probably somewhere around 13-14lbs with optic, suppressor, and full mag. This did however directly translate to recoil on par with 5.56 out of a 20in AR. The side charging handle is extremely awkward to use as is the traditional AR pattern charging handle just due to the weight and size. One malfunction we all noted was that if you attempt to take out a magazine that isn’t empty when you rack the charging handle to remove the round from the chamber it has a very bad habit of getting lodged between the bolt and the ejection port requiring you to use the side charging handle in a really aggressive manner in order to remove the round. Overall I don’t think this rifle will be in service long. The round is cool though.
have a nice day immediately ADHD riddled tiktok addicted no attention span having zoomer gay
>extremely heavy
>around 13-14lbs
You know in the army they always give manlets the LMG.
14lbs ain't that bad.
Is that true? My grampa was a manlet with huge forearms (farmer's son) and he was a Bren gunner.
>around 13-14lbs with optic, suppressor, and full mag
It really is a fucking BAR.
Nah BAR is longer, and 18-19lbs without accessories.
HCAR is a little more reasonable at 11-12lbs naked. But that is still more than the XM7.
>The side charging handle is extremely awkward to use as is the traditional AR pattern charging handle just due to the weight and size.
Seems like a problem with you being a bitch.
At least the price, while expensive, isn't as absurd as some people were saying it would be.
Why does it cost that much? They sell the LT here for like $3,000-$3,300 in 7.62 NATO (308)
The LT is $2500
see
LT is 7.62x39
The LT doesn't do any calibers with a .308 parent case, that's only in the non-LT SPEARs
The MCX SPEAR-LT is .223, .300blk, and 7.62x39
The MCX SPEAR is .308, 6.5cm, and 6.8x51 (.277 Fury)
That's the 7.62 civilian version and it's msrp. The 6.8 version is still 8k.
>we all noted was that the rifle was extremely heavy
one thing I noted is that you don't even lift
dyel noticed and destroyed
Why the fuck does this retarded non-argument still come up in these threads? Do the people who post it even believe it's valid at this point?
If a rifle is just as effective for everything you want to do with it but is lighter, the ammo is lighter and smaller so you can carry more of it, and it's cheaper, why in the goddamn fuck would you choose the heavier one for any reason? It's not even relevant how strong you are, the lighter cheaper equipment is obviously better.
Who are you?
Who do you think you are?
You don't even have the NGSW optic and firing system
Yet you talk like you are smarter and more experience than actual combat veterans and military engineers on what constitutes a next generation squad rifle
You talk like your opinion an incomplete, civilian version of a rifle without the issued ammunition or high tech firing system has any significance whatsoever to the decisions of the US military
You are shit on it because you are a fraud, a charlatan, and an attention-seeker, plain and simple. I doubt you have even witnessed a firefight and would shit your pants if you did.
You talk like your opinion on* an incomplete, civilian version of a rifle without the issued ammunition or high tech firing system has any significance whatsoever to the decisions of the US military
Embarrassing and fraudulent
>that spacing
We know what you are, go back where you belong
>I KnOw THAt SpAcInG!!
fucking newfag. kys.
Argument from authority is a logical fallacy.
Lmao this is 100% one of the indian shills SIG hired to do their marketing on the internet.
Hah. GAAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!
You're gonna experience a firefight when I throw my poopie at you
Glowmoron
because they're fat manlets. the whole
>tall elves pack light, stout dwarves make little of burden
idea is completely real. tall (normal) human beings detest burdens because they notice it affecting their high-level mobility, whereas the fat manlets have never run double digits so an extra 10lbs on their rifle won't be noticable to them, a race that knows not 100% exertion
t. botkin
>If a rifle is just as effective
Well it isn't. So everything you said after this doesn't matter. Fucking retard.
He'll now make up excuses for how none of the extra performance offered by the new rifle is useful for a military.
And some retard will probably chime in about how it's for killing American civilians in level 4 plates despite the fact the military already has rifle ammo to do that.
Do the NGSW stuff defeat lvl 4?
lol no
This sounds like either corporate/political fuckery or some money laundering scheme. I just hope the infantryman with these weapons won't suffer.
With the "SP" Special Purpose round that costs like $22/shot right now, sure. But so will M993 and M995 which are even cheaper per shot.
It's true though. Modern infantry doesn't fight at distances where the extra performance matters as much as maneuverability and control.
No, it doesn't, which is another reason the whole idea is stupid. Even within practical combat ranges the extra penetration on human targets won't matter. It's completely pointless.
damn, you tested a gun designed for 400m+ at a 30m range and found no advantage from a hotter round? who woulda thunk?
>designed for 400m+
>Army already knows most rifle kills take place at less than that
So what's the point of this rifle again?
To change that average. The thinking behind this is doubtless that you could engage at greater ranges, and kill more effectively at greater ranges, with a better tool. Hence not just a new rifle but a fancy new scope too.
That average isn't because of capability. Soldiers aren't engaging at those ranges because it's impractical and unrealistic due to environmental and mixed unit tactics reasons, not because an AR can't reach 400 meters. It's hard to see that far in the first place because of obstacles like trees and buildings and geographical features, and then even if you did somehow know there was an enemy unit 1000 meters away why wouldn't you just call a drone or artillery for that?
Do you think front-line troops are going to actually hit objects that far, when being fired at?
The 300m average was calculated when we were using full power .30-06 in bolt actions and M1 Garands you retard.
Yes, and no optics or local drones and other live intelligence sources
Why would that matter to a modern .308/6.5/6.8 rifle with modern optics, a squad with drone surveillance and maybe even a small handheld drone controlled by someone in the squad itself for direct local recon.
I agree it's probably not AS useful as some people on here are saying, but you can't expect to bring up WWII era rifles and not mention the VAST difference in everything else that would more easily allow for longer engagement ranges.
Again, I'm not defending the XM7 here, just saying the idea in and of itself isn't complete retardation, and pretending we're still in WWII just makes you look stupid.
Lmao, lose weight and lift weakling, no wonder its too heavy for you...
I imagine this is what most of you circumcised golems look like, fat, flabby, pasty white skin - utterly embarassing. SIG hat surely hiding a balding head.
Post physique, Ranjesh.
>t.scarecrow shitskin with dickcheese
man there are a lot of retards being very submissive towards the weight
empty weight is only 2 lbs heavier than the m4. most of it comes from the accessories which is a given on any rifle so its irrelevant to complain about.
Supposedly the suppressor alone is ~1.3lbs and I believe this is the first time the US Army will be issuing suppressors standard with every rifle, so that alone would add weight regardless of if you're using 5.56 or not.
Fulled kitted out M4 is like 9 lbs. This pig will weight 13-14 lbs. A 4-5 lb difference is massive on a shouldered rifle, especially when the cutoff that most people think is heavy when you surpass it, is 10 lbs.
> Fulled kitted out M4 is like 9 lbs
lol no
With a full mag you're already at just shy of 8lbs, throw optics, PEQ, suppressor, etc. and you can fairly easily break 10lbs on a kitted out M4.
Do retards itt seriously not understand that a 14lb rifle is completely unacceptable as your standard issue infantry weapon that needs to be used for urban combat, room clearing, suppression etc? It's not supposed to be a DMR. This thing is going the way of the SCAR
The whole point of the program is to make a rifle for every role from muzzle contact distance to 1000m. It's the typical "solution to the last war thing", but at least this time it's because the last war was practice for the next war (urban occupation then scattered resistance in remote mountainous areas vs people with body armor and ar-15s)
Why the fuck do you idiots keep regurgitating this martial law fantasy?
>hurr durr the rifle is designed to be more effective against an diverse force with last generation equipment
Soooo, basically the point of every next gen weapons system. Got it.
Moron.
Why do you gaggots get so assblasted every time someone points out that this is a viable role for a weapon being developed to replace a small arms pipeline that is perfectly sufficient for pretty much every other scenario
Because it's not 5.56 and they're scared of something new.
>every other scenario
Are you seriously implying the Nasty Girls are worried because Joe Blow Sixpack is rocking RMAs with no side plates? Motherfucker, a shooting war pops off stateside and they'll be on top of that Humvee with fucking beltfeds. That cone of fire doesn't give a shit about your NIJ rating. We saw them do it back in the Summer of Love when they were chewing up apartments and little girls with .50s.
I'm seriously implying that a mostly static defensive force shifting to ever lower quality pool of troops focusing on infrastructure protection and urban center control is absolutely an end user for this kind of shift in small arms after lessons learned in two theaters, one which was a perfect test bed for urban occupation LIC and remote threat small cell/decentralized guerilla insurgency. If you spent five fucking minutes in either space you'd concede there is merit to the argument. Yes. A large part of changing the ammo, complicating its manufacturing, augmenting and boosting the assists on the optics package, outranging the most prolific weapon on domestic soil, etc are all considerations of the ngsw program.
>designed specifically to counter (domestic) insurgencies
I actually don't disagree with your post, and if you look back I said it was a consideration, not the absolute reason behind the program. Just because the scenario I outlined applies accurately to the United States doesn't mean I'm solely claiming it is for domestic counter insurgency. Things can be done for multiple reasons and scenarios all at once. Yes 100% I believe one of those considerations is for domestic threats.
The point of contention is that the
>next war
in which the US military will be involved is not going to be the
>urban occupation then scattered resistance in remote mountainous areas vs people with body armor and ar-15s
fantasy that larpers love to rehearse for. The writing on the wall point us to a neer-peer conflict over pacific spheres of influence
Again I ask why you and those like you get so assblasted over this idea and the fact that yes there are plenty of DHS and DOD documents, PowerPoints and thus considerations for internal threats on the homefront and that doctrine and procurement directly considers these things when deciding on courses of action.
Do you really think it's inconceivable in the next week to 10 years there could be some degree of diffuse LIC in the US?
>Do you really think it's inconceivable in the next week to 10 years there could be some degree of diffuse LIC in the US?
To the scale that the main body of the US military will get directly involved in protracted campaigns against US civilians, without completely collapsing in on itself first? Yes. Accelerationists like you don't quite grasp the gravity of another civil war and how it would destroy the way of life of everyone here. The vast majority of people in this country would rather roll over and surrender their rights than bite the hand that feeds them the luxuries of the most advanced country on earth. Call it demoralization or whatever you want, but when push comes to shove I sincerely believe Americans will comply.
>US military will get directly involved in protracted campaigns against US civilians
Spend a little more time around actual combatants instead of sitting behind your desk all day. Learn what diffuse LIC and policing actions entail. And continue to (willfully) ignore the "things are done for multiple reasons with variable weighting"
Speak for yourself. We saw what the national level coordination resulted in on Jan 6: abject failure. If you genuinely think "we'll do better next time!" Be my guest and cast the first stone. And you can continue to (willfully) mistake the forest for the trees.
> urban occupation LIC
> If you spent five fucking mI know, let's give everyone a magnum battle rifle for urban occupation
> If you spent 5 fucking minutes in either space
I'll concede you argued against your own thesis here, anon. 20 round mags of .260 Wby Mag recoil over 30 rounds of 5.56 is not what I would have picked if you made me go into some damn apartment building.
>Summer of Love when they were chewing up apartments and little girls with .50s
Medication
Because every generation is meant to be better than the last, including against (domestic) insurgencies. The last generation "being sufficient for pretty much every other scenario" means there is room for improvement in EVERY area it could be fielded. It's the same reason why the F-35 was developed to replace the F-16. The F-16 is sufficient in most scenarios but the F-35 is better overall.
If the XM7 is (supposedly) superior overall it is therefore reasonable to imagine it is superior against (domestic) insurgencies. However, to say it must have been designed specifically to counter (domestic) insurgencies because of this is backwards reasoning and ignores the actual design purpose: to be a better goddamn rifle.
This persecution complex that the US gov't is intentionally designing weapons to kill citizens corrupts your judgment.
>This persecution complex that the US gov't is intentionally designing weapons to kill citizens corrupts your judgment.
Hold on, let me put my sunglasses cause all this brightness is blinding me.
>(urban occupation then scattered resistance in remote mountainous areas vs people with body armor and ar-15s)
Which is strange since it's not gonna help them one bit 🙂
"Ounces matter" is a foreign fucking concept to most of us, because we don't hump a rifle + soldier's load for a paycheck. Same reason you got guys on here parroting 6+1 with zero understanding of why.
It's just not in most of our job experience.
It weighs 8.38lbs with a mag inserted per actual scales. This is psychological or from being out of shape or both.
Good thing it's a bit over half that weight then lol.
The BAR was also used effectively by 130lb Depression babies who grew up on lentils who were in a far less mechanized force and had to walk everywhere.
People today aren't just fat, they have never done significant physical labor and do get injured easily and underestimate adaptation.
I mean, with a can, ammo in the mag, optic on top, and assuming potentially 1 or 2 other small accessories and you can easily hit ~13.5-14lbs on the XM7.
The full weight for milspec is 9.82lbs, that's with a suppressor and smart optic.
No it's not. That's with a can only.
Ammo is another 1.4lbs, optic is likely another 1.5lbs, that brings you to ~13lbs before anything else.
>The BAR was also used effectively
Not nearly as effectively as they'd have used an m4 though, right?
I get it, my man. Miley is on record to congress back in 2017 saying they needed to punch holes through plates. If that's the name of the game, then 11Bs get to suck it up carrying more weight for less ammo.
But we still haven't seen that general issue ammo pen those plates. If that shit doesn't materialize, fuck rolling back to an upjumped m14 for shooting at palm fronds off Taiwan or wherever. Just keep the m4s for the assault element and let she support element have them bitching new beltfeds.
Your weight assumptions are incorrect. The optic weighs 21oz, the rifle filled loaded with .277 weighs in at a hair under 9.5lbs, the suppressor weighs 19.4oz, take all that and add it up you’re now looking at a rifle that weighs in right around 12lbs with absolutely no other furniture like a PEQ, Bipod, or any other multitude of furniture that may be used by military personnel. So yes, though my claim of a 13lb rifle is incorrect I’m off by approximately one pound. My claim was never that the rifle was unable to be lifted as many of you have misread. Simply that compared to a fully loaded M4 at 7.8 lbs it’s quite a significant weight increase.
>t. Guy in picture
>a light machine gun
That the said 140lb lanklet had to have 2 others carry spare mags for it you fucking retard.
>The BAR was also used effectively
yeah it can be used effectively but that doesn't make it optimal
everyone back then also bitched about the bar weight, bipod being too heavy, the thompsons weight (only 10 lbs and compact btw)
this is also disingenuous because combat loads in ww2 were much less than they are now
you can live without a kidney too
>This did however directly translate to recoil on par with 5.56 out of a 20in AR.
No that is because you were shooting low pressure civilian ammo.
The civilian stuff is still supposedly more powerful than .308
It's roughly 7mm-06
>7mm-06
You mean 270 Winchester, zoomer?
Considering .270 Winchester and .280 Winchester (7mm-06) are almost identical.
Sure whatever you say kid.
It is honestly depressing how retarded this board is these days. People responding to service rifle that weighs 14 pounds with “lift more lmao” might genuinely get in positions of power or management one day and that scares me
Wait til you meet the people who will tell you "skill issue".
Considering how overburdened soldiers are now, they already are.
Sounds like the ejection port isn't big enough. Weird how something in this position would have that issue, you'd think sig would have figured that out pretty early unless they literally never manually cycled with ammo loaded.
The weight is going to be a problem. It's pretty clear this isn't actually going to be general issue but if it's heavier than an SR-25 with the same optic, why bother? Make a barrel for the SR-25 and stick the optic on it. That and a piston are the only significant differences anyway.
Were you shooting the all brass case ammo or the bubba's pissin hot hybrid steel case?
Pick up a weel gun
I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEEAANS
Holy shit, blast from the past.
The XM7 is the vengeful ghost of the Afghan War
It turns riflemen into computerized killing machines
>the vengeful ghost of the afghan war
please go back with your new Ultra-Giga-Killer XXLBBQ in 6.8 Hipster (its totally different from old full powered rifle rounds guys, pls stop laughing its not just a hipster 30-06) so we can see you fail to kill sheep fucking farmers wielding fucking WW2 Equipment for the third time mutt, its gonna be funny
You have a discord account
You don't have: a point
Afghanistan was a complete fucking failure, and a waste of our time, money, and men. The current stock of infantry recruits coming in are too retarded and weak to use this obsolescent implement effectively.
Lessons from Afghanistan are not necessarily shit, however. The failure with Afghanistan, just as Vietnam before it, lay in strategy. But improving weapons with lessons learned there isn't, and shouldn't be accused of being, stupid.
The failure is that we tried to half-assedly brute force a solution, without first fully understanding what the problem is, and sticking to one goal only. Reintroducing a battle rifle is not an improvement, but it ultimately doesn't matter anymore when you could just call in airstrikes.
*Teleports behind you*
Heh, nothing personal kid.
If that gun comes in at less than or equal to 7lbs it looks to be a much better gun. I love how FN was like “yeah, the US army thinks it knows what it wants, but rather than build to their silly specs, lets not enter that competition and instead let the lab coat sporting high forehead types in RnD come up with novel solutions to small arms problems”.
I want one of these.
I dont want an XM7 ever
One day you might come to actually like real rifles, don't worry about it too much.
I JUST WANT ONE OKAY?
What this guy said:
https://soldiersystems.net/2023/01/16/the-fn-america-fna-previews-the-lightweight-intermediate-caliber-cartridge-licc-individual-weapon-system-iws-developed-for-the-irregular-warfare-technology-support-directorate-iwtsd/
Apparently a fully loaded 25 round magazine weighs the same as a 30 round 5.56 magazine and according to the link above the whole system weighs less than 8lbs. I don't know if that's included with loaded mag+optic+suppressor but I'd be willing to bet the weight of the gun is on par with most M4s, while gaining increased energy at range at the expense of only 35 less rounds in a standard 6+1 combat loadout (175 rounds total) vs 70 less rounds when compared to the SIG XM5/XM7 (140 rounds total).
With a negligible increase in weight/bulk if you go to a 7+1 standard loadout in lieu of 6+1 you get 200 rounds. Only ten rounds less when compared to a standard M4 loadout. You'd need a 9+1 loadout with the XM5/XM7 to get the same amount of ammunition.
whats that lever doing? It's not on the other side
, which is weird because not ambidextrous.
And is it known if what I assume is the BHO can be moved up AND down to either lock the bolt back manually or down to release the bolt?
Probably a takedown lever like on a FN FAL.
It's so beautiful…
$6,000 it was rumored. Only a rifle for the rich.
Adopted by exactly 0 out of 0 units. But I hope it gets picked up soon tho by SOCOM. Seems like a much better idea than the XM7.
What exactly is FN hoping for here? The XM7 already has over 25000 rifles ordered.
They're hoping for a SOCOM contract. SOCOM usually rolls their own gear and they tend to value mobility over weight, so it's possible that they will not adopt the XM7.
I guess, but seems like chump change compared to what SIG are getting for the NGSW.
Just the first 2-3 years of orders and I think SIG already pocketed close to $1B.
They already ordered a few hundred Virtuses.
Das heißt Grüß Gott mit scharfem S du Untermensch
All I have to say is it'll be fine. Contrarians can blow me.
Even if it's not AMAZING, i'm sure it'll be decent.
i think its cool
>create necked down .308
>make it .0001 inches different so its incompatible with .308 as a parent
>get sweet .mil gibs
>????
>profit.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure the army supplied the bullet dimensions and had them build around that.
The bullet yes, but not the cartridge.
It's very clearly based off of the .308/7.62nato but juuuuust enough to make it wholly incompatible.
they did that on purpose because the full load rounds intended for the military could potentially destroy a shit-tier .308 rifle.
which isn't really solved, as the .308 chamber would be significantly longer than the .277 at the L1, I wouldn't trust a grunt to not just hit the forward assist/charging handle/whatever and force the bolt shut. the only thing keeping .277 from being chambered is being 0.007 thicker at the shoulder.
>ME HATE SIG ME WANT SIG GUN TO DO BAD
find something tangible to get mad at
>weight
>capacity
>recoil
>cost
>heavy ammo
>ammo causing increased wear
>muh overmatch
Just off the top of my head
Wow! Things that no soldier has yet to complain about and are only brought up by armchair generals (ie. you) and vetbro youtubers whose only firearm experience is passing quals. Go lift weights, you skinnyfat gay.
>soldiers have ever complained about gear weight
Shut the fuck up gay
Mmm, never said that, moron. I said they did not complain about the weight of the Spear. Now go lift, manlet, lest you develop spinal problems from carrying your LCP.
Not him but no soldier ever complained about having to haul heavier equipment? People can lift heavier guns like LMGs. That doesn’t mean it’s fun lugging them around, especially the large portion of time they’re not firing it.
>yet
Hopefully they never will because cooler heads will prevail and drop this hot turd before its even crapped out. Lifting weights doesn't make the gun any less of a heavy POS. Sure won't make you any less of a bought-and-paid-for gay shill
Its fun seeing individuals having a mental breakdown over a new superior weapon system being implemented.
>Superior weight
>Superior recoil
>Superior cost
Superior doesn't always mean better
There are better guns.
Lel
>not a bullpup
boomers strike again
FX-05 actually fixed all the craptastic German autism that was wrong with the G36 and only kept the general style.
Heinie got buttmad and tried to sue the beaners for copying the G36 but got BTFO in court.
My big regret is I cant buy the FX right now. Youd think Mexicans would spot an opportunity and ship them Norte as semi autos but no
>My big regret is I cant buy the FX right now
rumor has it the will start selling them in .223 rem as semi autos in the comign years
The whole program is just a huge contract grift with the main purpose of moving to a new caliber and fucking people out of surplus ammunition. The ultimate goal is to severely cuck their capability to acquire ammo.
Then why is the lake city ammo production facility not replacing the 5.56/7.62 production lines with 6.8x51?
Instead they're building a WHOLE new building just for the 6.8x51 production so they can keep the existing 5.56/7.62 lines running without reducing the output capacity.
sell the wunderwaffe to allied states.
keep the m16 for yourself
keep all the surplus 5.56 for yourself
>clearly it's to ruin our ability to acquire 5.56
>5.56 production remains unchanged
>yeah well obviously it only looks that way on the surface :^)
wew, if you're just gonna invent new fantasies to fit your narrative everytime you're proven wrong, there isn't much point continuing here.
You're trying way too hard glowmoron gay. my favorite incidence of blowback from this latest big brain idea from the best and brightest is going to see how all the technowizard bullshit in the world can't pad an 85iq baseline
lmao, so when you have no proof of whatever inane bullshit you're spreading you just call me a glowie
wewlad.
Here, seethe more gay.
>no proof
>20 years of war
>Internal and publicly available documents
>Specific criteria of ngsw program include things applicable to US civilians
I argue with strawmanning bad faith gays like you because it makes me chuckle. you're going to be one of the slaves, fag
moron shut the fuck up, show me ANYWHERE the NGSW program requirements include things applicable to US civilians.
If we want to bust lvl 4 plates, we ALREADY HAVE M993 and M995.
Further, we likely already have a PRETTY good idea who in this country is well armed, and who has level 3 and level 4 rated rifle plates, especially anyone with a large stock of them.
It would be TRIVIAL to get rid of these people BEFORE some sort of military take over, the fantasy that the government needs 6.8x51 and the XM7 to do it is just so fucking absurd it belies belief.
>belies belief
It defies belief fucking autocorrect.
>Effective range
>Muzzle velocity
>Gatekept (overcomplicated) ammo
>Optics package
>Weight makes it optimal for static and mounted operations
There is a few. Meanwhile, your strawman insistence that I'm saying it is uniquely for scenario X vs considerations/follow on benefits in event of X+Y+Z plus ripping off tax payers plus giving technonerds a boner vs typical fighting the last war old disconnected flagstaff decision makers vs SIG lobbying scumbaggery vs SIG typical underbid then overcharge for ancillary products and support etc etc etc
https://media.defense.gov/2021/Dec/20/2002912573/-1/-1/0/REPORT-ON-COUNTERING-EXTREMIST-ACTIVITY-WITHIN-THE-DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE.PDF
have a nice day
>Jan 6
Turn off the TV and lay off the weed dipshit. It makes it hard to think about anything more than 2 hrs removed.
So you're a fucking moron.
Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle.
God damn, why do people like you not just have a nice day and save the rest of us the trouble of taking you out later when you finally snap.
>Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle.
Do you cocksuckers think if you say something with feigned authority and repeatedly it manifests? Did all of you cumgarglers have to read the secret as mandatory material? Explain to me how an effective range of greater than 1000m with first hit probability percentage metrics weren't part of the ngsw criteria.
Again moron, I never said they WEREN'T part of the requirements, what I'm saying is that those requirements OBVIOUSLY also clearly apply to an infantry rifle to be used against peer militaries.
To say the ONLY use for that is to kill US civilians is fucking retarded.
>
>I never said they WEREN'T part of the requirement
Really?
>Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle
>To say the ONLY use for that
How many times are you going to say this you fucking cunt, when I explicitly and repeatedly ID it isn't the ONLY reason but it (domestic) sure as shit is ONE of the reasons? Again to my original question, why are you gays so assblasted whenever someone IDs domestic armed civilians as a consideration of near peer advisary as IDed in your own fucking reporting/shrill clamoring for reactionary budget? Are you that ego protective that the plebs having to be considered at all ratfucks your brains that much?
What's inaccurate? Did your boyfriend come down to your cubicle upset needing some support to deal with meanies on PrepHole simply discussing the fact that NGSW is a clusterfuck and nothing good seems to come of it for the american people? Btw True Velocity should have won, dicksuckers
>>Yeah none of those things have ANYTHING to do with a proper military rifle
That's sarcasm my dude
The stress on ANYTHING means the opposite.
Again, the idea this gun was bought to take out Americans is so fucking stupid you should feel ashamed for even thinking it made sense. Whoever fed you this bullshit is a fucking idiot, and the fact you ate it up just shows you're also a fucking idiot.
>Again, the idea this gun was bought to take out Americans is so fucking stupid
>Single reason
>One
>Uno senor
And again. Back to task. Yup 1000000% it is A consideration. Not THE consideration
>Again, the idea this gun was bought to take out Americans is so fucking stupid you should feel ashamed for even thinking it made sense.
Try harder, fed.
Damn bro calm down before you hurt yourself making all this shit up in your head. I know the liberals live there rent free but you're starting to hallucinate.
>TV should have won
Finally, something we can agree on.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2021/05/14/dhs-issues-national-terrorism-advisory-system-ntas-bulletin
Quick. Bring up aliens using holograms to teleport holocaust survivors in to WTC 7
>Again to my original question, why are you gays so assblasted whenever someone IDs domestic armed civilians as a consideration of near peer advisary
Because if I was intent on murdering US insurgents in an urban LIC scenario, I damn sure wouldn't opt for a .308 gas gun over a 5.56 rifle, and I'd be even less likely to issue a 6.8x51 rifle in mass. If anything, MOUT is a significant argument for keeping 5.56.
Seriously, who the fuck thinks a 14lbs battle rifle is the ideal gun for door kicking in the suburbs and cities?
And if you were to have to do so in a remote mountainous area like theater 2 after the urban policing was well under control and now remote resource extraction and vital infrastructure static defense was a priority?
Drones, bro. If the army is not working on a new MOS specifically for integrating recon drones armed with drop munitions and thermal/infared cameras at the platoon level, they soon will be. Manmade horrors beyond my comprehension at that point.
>Drones
>Bridges
>Tunnels
>Highways
It's almost like there is a weapon system package being designed to work in concert with such horrors
Why not just talk about your plans after the nuclear war?
Or the Zombie appocolyps?
Like come the fuck on, do you actually expect to be taken seriously when you're talking about what amounts to the end of modern civilization for 90%+ of the population?
Why are you worrying about something that isn't going to happen, and if it does you're gonna be dead anyway.
Your egocentrism is on display. Me autistically insisting that part of the weighting of the ngsw program included increased lethality and qualitative edge over current equipment in the hands of THE GOVERNMENTS OWN WORDS potential future domestic threats has nothing to do with what I think the impact will be on me or what the state of society will be by the time this kind of consideration has to be tested in reality. You have Kleenex at your desk. It can be on call to serve as both a tissue and a cumrag, circumstance depending.
Having read this whole shitshow, I declare you the victor
>resorts to (inaccurate) shitflinging
Lol. Lmao, even.
>It would be TRIVIAL to get rid of these people BEFORE some sort of military take over
It sure would, glow buddy.
So, you're doing it for free which is even worse.
>lives within 30 miles of the pentagon, CIA, NSA, DHS, etc.
>doing it for free
if you say so
>Instead they're building a WHOLE new building just for the 6.8x51 production so they can keep the existing 5.56/7.62 lines running without reducing the output capacity.
I'll believe it when I see the the order for the machinery go through.
LC has tried to get the wheel turning on an extension for more than a decade now, because they've been using every square inch they have available since the 80's. In the 00's and 10's they got new machinery, but that was to replace workers they couldn't retain, and because they have lines all the way from the 60's that they're making replacement parts for, in house, thst because the old guys retired, nobody knew how to run.
This whole fucking thing reeks of F35, especially since adoption and budgets were rapidly passed not a week after Orange Man left office.
I mean it's clearly on the docket. You don't spend $1b+ on new rifles and LMGs just to not spend the $200m to build them an ammo production line.
I hate you /kchuds/ so much. I am going back to grilling fuck this bs thread.
Go grill your nutsack biiiiiiitttttcccccchhhhhh.
The fedziongarden gnomeglowies are in your walls
>mostly static defensive force
>lessons learned in two theaters
>one which was a perfect test bed for urban occupation LIC and remote threat small cell/decentralized guerilla insurgency
>one
>uno
There's that number again
>16:30
>time for 20 minute shit break before squirting to the garage 10 minutes early.
you sure have a lot of time to be making these inane posts
almost like you're being paid to do it
It doesn't weigh 14 pounds milspec. The difference from an M4 with everything is a bit over 2lbs, but also 10 less rounds.
we were so close to being all cool and futuristic
What are the odds that a bullpup gets adopted over an AR?
bullpups are 1980s tech people realised was shit anon not future tech, stop reading your dads tom clancy novels
I sexually identify as Rifle.
Just posting the coolest ngsw gun that will never see the light of day. Fuck steyr or Australia, the aug has so many improvements and we dont get any of them in the states.
I dunno man, looks like a pretty real gun to me
This thing is cool as hell.It's not going to replace the m4 but It will be great for people who need to go and get rid of a security team or something where you know there will be a couple of people in plate armor that need to die ASAP. It also seems to make shills and Pajeeta's so mad they need a vist from the Doc, so you know it has to be liquid kino.
I'm still confused how this is an Assault Rifle replacement and not a Battle Rifle. How's the LMG doing though? Still no quick change barrels?
>Still no quick change barrels?
By request of the army, yes.
SIG still offers the LMG platform with a quick change barrel to other military/government customers that want it. The US army was pretty adamant about its removal though.
The US Army is reaching Marine Corps levels of retardation.
>By request of the army, yes.
What the fuck, army.
> m249, quick change barrel
> Stoner '63, same
> Knights LAMG, yep
> Ultimax mk 3/4, yes
So what's the fucking theory here? Not my job, but the 240 is supposed to have a barrel swap every 2(!) minutes under rapid fire. I'm guessing 6.8x51 is a good bit hotter than 7.62x51.
No idea, but again the original LMG SIG submitted had a quick swap barrel and the army told them to fuck off with that shit.
Apparently they think they don't need them for some reason. On one hand, this means weight savings not carrying a spare. On the other hand, that means they won't have a spare when they need it the most. I'm siding with the second because I'm confused what space metal is used that won't make it super hot after long firing.
All.I can figure is that sustsined rate is listed as 100rds/min, while rapid is 200, for the m240. I dunno what the standard m249 loadout was, but it's probably safe to expect 50-75% of it with the m250.
So maybe the theory is simply they won't have the ammo to burn the barrels out anyway.
I think that's the idea, and any situation where you think you're going to need more ammo you call in close air support, artillery, etc to bring the rain and the small arms become much less of a factor.
trading ammo for more targeting comms, designators, drones etc sounds smart until that support doesn't work/come
And if you're in that scenario, the extra 1200 rounds of 5.56 and an extra barrel or two for the LMGs spread throughout the squad probably wouldn't be the difference between defeat and victory.
Support element won't be ditching the m240s or the m3s, last I heard. I don't know how often guys in the assault element actually humped a 249 during a movement, but I don't see how having a much lighter option is a bad thing there. That bitch was still 20+lbs loaded.
Imagine carrying that shit, plus additional belts of ammo on a split vest, plus armor, and all while doing the IMT hokey pokey across multiple football fields. And then some asshole pops his head up and you somehow have to shoot a heavy fucking 249 from the shoulder. Oof.
Is this why some PMCs use PKMs or lighter machineguns?
I hear that they plan on preferring precise aiming to suppress rather than more bullets but I find myself skeptical on having less bullets to fire all the same. Weight savings from carrying less but this whole NGSW thing tries giving soldiers less bullets to shoot,
Honestly 300 blackout needs to be the new standard given that most engagements will be close quarters where range isn't fucking necessary. Suppressed with subsonic ammo is the future.
it's because "battle rifles" are not a real thing, it's a retronym
>80k psi of pressure
Even .50 BMG is tamer than 6.8 Fury
I am starting to doubt 6.8 M5/M7 system because it doesn't matter how far or powerful your bullet can hit, if the solders aren't hitting targets because they don't know where to aim.
What we see very often in the field are soldiers just blindly shooting over cover because they don't want to get hit, but that prevents them from aiming. In these scenarios it is beneficial to have more ammo.
But if you know where to aim, the tactics change completely.
Which is why you now have a smart optic to calculate distance and drop near-instantly.
If you can take an accurate first shot at 500-800 meters that's going to be FAR more effective than the people you're shooting at who have to rely on iron sights or standard regular optics.
The only reason you're inclined to blindly shoot from cover is that you don't know where you're getting shot from, or you're aware the odds of you being accurate at that distance means it didn't matter if you blindly shot or not.
The entire point of the platform is to never be in that situation to begin with, and if you ARE in that situation it's because you put yourself there.
Will these soldiers use the equipment right or fumble it under pressure?
Good question, but since it's only (currently) being fielded among the close combat force (the proverbial tip of the spear) it should really only be given to well trained combat units.
Obviously only time will tell as we can't know what will happen in 6-18 months when the gun actually issued.
>Will these soldiers use the equipment right or fumble it under pressure?
Nope, they'll never be endlessly trained on it once received and will just go into battle like a blind dog
Jesus this thread is just one dumb take after another
You'd be amazed at the negligence and avoidable mistakes of some soldiers.
If you overcomplicate systems, they tend to fail. In some cases it is acceptable (fighter jets, intelligence gathering, missiles) but for a field soldier? I wouldn't trust him taking care of himself, let alone expensive piece of equipment. This is also why I doubt all of this exo-suit power armor shit.
Afghanistan had them MIC shook
So when are there gonna be parts kits and 80% lowers for this?
This specific gun? Probably never
I await the day P80 makes a lower and jig for this piece of shit
and you still wont be able to buy an upper alone, so what the fuck is your point?
Someone will eventually make reproduction uppers you retard.
Then it's no longer the gun in the OP so again, what the fuck is your point?
You can ALREADY buy short stroke gas piston .308 AR parts kits, 80% lowers, etc.
P
Is it weird that now that this gun isn't getting widespread adopted that I now want it? .270 caliber with 80k psi case pressure is really cool for the civilian market.
>now that this gun isn't getting widespread adopted
Says who? I mean, the army themselves only ever said they wanted ~120,000 guns in the next ~3-6 years. Which the XM7 is slated to deliver on.
It was never meant to be more widespread than that.
>he believed the post from last week claiming the army was dropping the XM7
lol
lmao even
don't trust unsourced posts on PrepHole
it was him lying about a shitty opinion piece on some shitty site.
If the True Velocity submission had won, just think of what we could've had.
>just think of what we could've had
frequent case head separations and 8 moa at 300m
>8 moa at 300m
That's pretty damn accurate for a machinegun. Sig says their new one averages around 10 MOA and the 249 it's supposed to replace is something like 12-14 on average.
I thought the TV ammo was more or less MOA out of the bullpup?
>Yep and?
No one wants to sacrifice capacity for ballistics in a general use weapon where the average engagement distance is under 50 yards. That was the first thing the pencil pushers got wrong and it will lead to the ultimate rejection of the meme round.
>Yep and?
People who actually walk around with weapon systems and who get into gunfights don't give a fuck if some pencil pusher is excited about the superior ballistics of a round if it means getting fewer rounds in their magazine, having more stout recoil slowing follow up shots, and not being able to carry as much ammo.
The neo-marxist US army is deeply retarded and also sponsored various projects like the SCAR that were received terribly and immediately rejected. The new meme round is going to be a barrel burner. It's going to destroy parts. Everything about it is silly.
It's obvious the point of the new meme round was to ban all military style weapons for civilians and then to immediately transition to the new meme round, cutting off the civilian supply chain. That was the point. Also, with the increased pressure and parts wear, weapons outside of the government supply chain would wear down quickly.
Yep and?
It bad 🙁
Yellow gun bad.
Yellow fan mad
I have so much respect for SIG for designing both a handgun and rifle that have caused more seething and rage from obese gamers than any other firearms products released in the past 25 years.
There has never been more cringe clickbait exposes, essays written on forums, or shit flinged about a product that I can remember.
She's so based, she's truly the most based rifle of all time.
Ok rabbi.
cringe
I love you.
The best part is when Glockmorons cite the lawsuits against Sig and conveniently ignore how all of them were settled in Sig's favor or are still in limbo because the plaintiff's can't prove it was the gun's fault and can't replicate the alleged discharge as they described it. On top of that, two of the plaintiffs were even fucking retarded enough to ADMIT they put the gun, loaded, in a purse and a duffle bag, unholstered, with various other loose items inside said containers, and then threw and jostled the containers around. They bold faced admitted this and still thought they had a case. Honestly, I blame their attorneys more.
>honestly I blame their attorneys more
Most of my colleagues know almost nothing about guns. Which is why it gets particularly hilarious when they try to make technical gun arguments to jurys in my state, where more than 50% of households own at least one gun. There was just a murder case recently where one of the defendants brought in some better-call-saul-ass motherfucker from DC who tried to argue that one of the victims was the real shooter because he had a cut on his thumb that defense counsel was saying was slide bite. The murder weapon was a .223. They were found guilty within two hours of the jury going out lmao.
>There was just a murder case recently where one of the defendants brought in some better-call-saul-ass motherfucker from DC who tried to argue that one of the victims was the real shooter because he had a cut on his thumb that defense counsel was saying was slide bite. The murder weapon was a .223. They were found guilty within two hours of the jury going out lmao.
This sounds hilarious.
It was, the idiot had to hire two lawyers because when you bring a guy from out of state in pro hac vice you need local counsel too. And then the guy he went to all this trouble to bring in was a total clown and got absolutely mogged by the local guy that his co-defendant hired and the prosecutor. Whatever the guy paid him it was too much lol. Hope he got it up front because his client's gonna get life with parole when they sentence him in a month or so.
Do clients have any kind of say in the way the case is presented? Don't they work out what they're going to say in court ahead of time? Because I can't imagine being the client, hearing the lawyer was going to say that dumb shit, and not telling him the weapon was a rifle and the lawyer is retarded and needs to fuck off.
SIG won.
Get over it.
But some anon lied about the army dropping the XM7, so SIG actually lost.
Why can't nu-SIG make a single fucking gun that wouldn't look absolutely abhorrent and soulless?
wat? the p320 looks good. the long one even more.
It looks like a toddler's drawing of a gun.
Keep it simple stupid
No one cares about your subjective kvetching garden gnome
>CEO is ~~*Ron Cohen*~~
lul
Captcha: NYGWH
>garden gnomes don't neurotically bitch about everything including especially other things made by garden gnomes
No one cares about your subjective kvetching, garden gnome
>20 round
Why tho?
Because 30 round mags are too long and don't allow you to shoot normally when prone.
i want one