450 grain brass solids over 50 grains of Reloder7 and Winchester Magnum large rifle primers. Hits like a b***h slap from God himself. Recoils like it too.
Damn I was just talkin shit lmao. I wish I had a .45-70 to reload.
450 grain brass solids over 50 grains of Reloder7 and Winchester Magnum large rifle primers. Hits like a b***h slap from God himself. Recoils like it too.
Would be pretty cool. I live in Alaska and have taken several moose with a 300 Winmag. I want to one day use the BFR on a moose hunt.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Do you know if it's legal to use a revolver up there to hunt brown bear? The round is almost certainly capable of handling a bear, but I can't help but think they'd look down on using a hand gun.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not sure if it's legal, but it's not smart.
There's a difference between a bear hunting rifle, and a bear stopping gun.
Just as I wouldn't want to rely on a scoped bolt action 338WM/375 ruger in the brush with a Grizzly full tilt charging from 20yards, I wouldn't want an open sight pistol/rifle in .45-70 to hunt them at range with.
Most bear guides/hunters try to shoot the bear between 75 and 150 yards, too much closer, it could turn and charge into you, too much further is too much chance of a bad shot and trailing a wounded grizz.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Pretty sure high-powered magnum revolvers are the choice weapon for hunting bear in Alaska.
In black powder it's a pleasant cartridge, not much worse than 12ga. And if you handload, you can safely pud load it using black powder or trailboss. I load subsonic hard cast 45-70 using trailboss and they'll still take a black bear down in one clean shot
Keep in mind that what's accurate for my gun is not necessarily going to be in yours.
Brass length 2.100
COAL 2.540
23gr of AA5744
460gr Cast Performance WNFPGC
Mild load, when hunting with hard cast the bullet is ultimately going to zip through anyway, so going hotter is just making it zip through faster. Ensuring good shot placement is king like every other cartridge.
Unironically, if you load subsonic Round Nose cast, you could probably take a rabbit cleanly enough because the bullet will go straight in and out leaving under a .458 sized hole due to the RN.
It's not optimal like a 22lr, but you'd have useable meat. I've thought about doing it with 45 Colt.
So question.. if I get into casting can I use the same rounds between 45 acp, 45 colt, and 45-70? I’ve got a 1911 and am looking at reloading and was wondering if theirs any carryover between the different sizes in terms of reloading gear…. I’m slowly talking myself into getting something like a s&w governer and then either a Winchester or marlin levergun
45 Colt and ACP are .451 or .452 diameter, they can share.
45-70, 458WM, etc are .458 diameter.
Can't share those.
With that said, for some of the lighter .458 bullets, like 300gr, you could run then through a .452 sizer and use them in 45 Colt pretty easy. Otherwise no, there's no crossover there.
I like the Winchester 1886 better than Marlin designs as they're less COAL sensitive and stronger, but it's up to the individual to determine what they want.
In black powder it's a pleasant cartridge, not much worse than 12ga. And if you handload, you can safely pud load it using black powder or trailboss. I load subsonic hard cast 45-70 using trailboss and they'll still take a black bear down in one clean shot
Since Trail Boss is unobtanium right now, there's always Unique which has published load data in my old Lyman Books. Makes good, economical plinkers. Unique has been hard to find though, so I've used Universal Clays as a substitute, it's a little cleaner.
Thank you, good to know. Figure if I’m gonna get some fun weird stuff may as well get as much cross capacity as I can. Really wish I could get the s&w in a longer barrel, or a judge or raging judge that took moon clips and 45 acp…. The raging judge running .454 casual looks great but being able to run regular 45 acp through a governer means I’m likely to get a lot more plinking practice out of it…
2 years ago
Anonymous
A few of the most popular cartridges with .452 diameter: 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 460 S&W, 450 Bushmaster, etc
.45-70 is slightly better, as it has much better SD.
BUT a quality pump gun is $400-$500, in current year it seems all .45-70 rifles are around $1k at minimum.
Also a reminder, Breneke bear slugs aren't waterproof.
I’ve had good luck with the Buffalo bore
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo
430 gr. LBT-LFN @ 1,925 fps/M.E.3,537 ft lbs
I have an old handi rifle with 45-70, 22hornet, and 243 barrels. I could never get it to shoot that well the 45-70 does about 3.5” with plain 405gr jacketed loads. The 22hornet a bit better and the 243 dosnt eject reliably so I never used it. I’ve shot half a dozen deer with the 45-70 and it works well dosnt look like much more than a 308 for how much damage it does. If you get a handi get a rimmed cartridge I wish I got a 357 and 45-70 if I did it again.
That gun weighs about 5.5lbs. It hurts period. I go the gun and ammo when I was 14. I thought it was so cool. I fired about 5 boxes of standard 405gr then 3 round group of the heavy shit (gun is so inaccurate I didn’t need to change zero was group was about the same at 50. I’ve since shot 8 deer with it and still have 9rounds left. Most at 5-10 yards straight down from my tree house.
Not anymore.
The only model new marlin(ruger) makes is a stainless steel threaded barrel option, pic rail with aperature sight, 19" barrel, which most of that is nice is nice but the MSRP is $1399, and street price isn't much lower for them.
Well frick, I feel like I just saw a couple in new or nnearly new condition on funbroker for under 1k but of course now they’re gone.
I bought my 1895 back in early 2020 for $750 from a LGS. I bought two boxes of Hornady leverevolution on that same day for $70. Now the 1895 sells on gunbroker for $1300-$1900 and those same two boxes of Hornady 45-70 would cost $140. Shit has absolutely skyrocketed in the last two years.
may not like it? I fricking love shooting the 45-70, its a fun round. The only part I don't like is paying for it. Have you seen the Magnum Research revolver? Its so heavy it actually barely kicks. A .357 mag kicks way more.
>nearly 11pm on a Sunday >sketchy motherfrickers park their sketchy pickup in front of my property >stroll out with my lever gat to see what's going on >both of them think it's a shotgun >see that their needs are met and that they're on their way
I am become boomer. No tweakers are gonna OD in front of my mailbox.
Power = work/elapsed time
Work = force x displacement
Displacement = 1/2(vinal v + initial v) x time
Force = mass x acceleration
Acceleration = final v - starting v / time
So if you want to know which is "more powerful, get to work homosexual.
ok Black person, or you can acknowledge that this isn't what he meant by "power." kinetic energy would be a better measure of what he's actually looking for, which is just a function of mass and velocity.
why is kinetic energy a bad metric? it gives you the maximum amount of energy that can be potentially transferred into the target. if the bullet stops in the target then 100% of that energy will have been transferred. impact is often measured in foot-pounds, which is a measure of energy.
Because energy transfer doesn't stop a target.
And there's no way to even know total energy transfer, as it depends on the bullet stopping, or to what degree it slows down, which is immeasurable and random.
Remeber, kinetic energy does not wound.
Crushing damage from the projectile wounds, and the metric to describe that is force.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Crushing damage from the projectile wounds, and the metric to describe that is force.
wouldn't a better measure be impulse? force will vary by what material the bullet is hitting, how much energy has already been lost, the surface area of the nose, etc.
either way, nobody is measuring shit in "power."
2 years ago
Anonymous
Force is not that dependant upon what it's hitting, force is force.
How that force acts apon the target can change, but humans are pretty simple, skin, soft tissue and bone.
>what about power
Well hers how to find power >N-NO THAT NOT WHAT I MEAN, I MEAN A TOTALLY MADE UP UNDEFINED DEFINITION OF POWER IS WHAT I MEAN >TELL ME WHICH IS MORE POWERFUL BY MY UNDEFINED MADE UP METRIC
KYS troony Black person.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>power >posts high school non-generalized equations
ngmi
get a load of this guy, he learned physics without calculus and now thinks these bullshit averages mean anything outside of very specific conditions.
we both know that he didn't mean "energy over time" you fricking homosexual. that's not what "power" means to most non-autistic people.
clearly the anon wasn't talking about the physics meaning of power, but the colloquial meaning.
why is kinetic energy a bad metric? it gives you the maximum amount of energy that can be potentially transferred into the target. if the bullet stops in the target then 100% of that energy will have been transferred. impact is often measured in foot-pounds, which is a measure of energy.
>power >posts high school non-generalized equations
ngmi
It really depends on what you mean by powerful. The 45-70 takes most of the things 5.56 fanboys hate about the 7.62x39 and exaggerates it tenfold. The bullets are fatter and heavier and traveling at far lower speeds. Low velocity in addition to a big thump usually makes for a better woods hunting rifle, as the high velocity cartridges meant for plains game will absolutely obliterate meat at 100 yards. The 45-70 will drop off absurdly quickly, but it retains a shitload of energy at distance because of sheer weight. Notice in pic related that, despite it having dropped 19 feet from the original point of aim, the 45-70 retains more energy at 500 yards than the .223 does at 200 yards. The velocity of the .223 can generally compensate for this, but deer hunters recommend larger cartridges for a reason. Vid related.
Interesting diagram . I load 45-70 405 acme coated bullets with 50 Grain 3031. Dead balls accurate and I notice no drop at 200, hell it shoots high. I get a similar poi for 13 grains of trail boss as well everything else the same
Paco Kelly will take the speculation out for you.
https://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/4570_leverguns.htm
Basically, it depends on your gun. A modern 1886 reproduction is good to 50,000psi. Within that pressure range you can send a 350gr jacketed bullet at 2300fps nets you 4100ft/lbs of energy.
But lets say we wanted to focus on conventional pressures for leverguns, at 40,000psi you can still send a 405gr bullet at 2000fps which is around 3600ft/lbs.
A Ruger No1, No3, and other falling blocks are stronger yet and can really send those bullets flying.
I'm not a glutton for punishment and while I trust Mr. Kelly, he has certainly put in the work, I don't want to be the guy to find out my 1886 repro wasn't as capable as his.
5.56/.223 has greater wounding potential. If for some reason you think you need as much penetration as you can get 45-70 would be a better choice.
>Crushing damage from the projectile wounds, and the metric to describe that is force.
wouldn't a better measure be impulse? force will vary by what material the bullet is hitting, how much energy has already been lost, the surface area of the nose, etc.
either way, nobody is measuring shit in "power."
I'm am unaware of any good way of determining an actual loadings performance other than 10% calibrated ballistics gel tests.
Yep, an 1886 is generally the way to go if you want a traditional lever that is also the best hanfloading platform.
Something not often talked about is the advantage the 1886 has in cycling longer OAL cartridges over a Marlin. In a Marlin 2.550 really is the maximum that will still cycle, but my 1886 will go out to 2.630(longest I've tested cycling).
Falling blocks aren't weak, but I probably wouldn't load a Sharps or Highwall repro hotter than a lever action.
If you want to load things really hot you'll want a Ruger No1 in 45-70.
hurts my shoulder 🙁
The Remington green and yellow box loads are much more tolerable than the Hornady loads, but the powder Remington uses is beyond nasty.
>he doesn't load his own giga pisser proof loads
lol, lmao even
I do. This cartridge is too expensive not to reload.
Damn I was just talkin shit lmao. I wish I had a .45-70 to reload.
It’s fun. You should try it sometime.
You never know if a woolly rhinoceros is going to try to commit a hate crime on you. Always gotta be prepared.
>No crimp
Is mah nigguh shooting a trapdoor? Pls post.
450 grain brass solids over 50 grains of Reloder7 and Winchester Magnum large rifle primers. Hits like a b***h slap from God himself. Recoils like it too.
Imagine killing a cape buffalo with this.
Would be pretty cool. I live in Alaska and have taken several moose with a 300 Winmag. I want to one day use the BFR on a moose hunt.
Do you know if it's legal to use a revolver up there to hunt brown bear? The round is almost certainly capable of handling a bear, but I can't help but think they'd look down on using a hand gun.
I'm not sure if it's legal, but it's not smart.
There's a difference between a bear hunting rifle, and a bear stopping gun.
Just as I wouldn't want to rely on a scoped bolt action 338WM/375 ruger in the brush with a Grizzly full tilt charging from 20yards, I wouldn't want an open sight pistol/rifle in .45-70 to hunt them at range with.
Most bear guides/hunters try to shoot the bear between 75 and 150 yards, too much closer, it could turn and charge into you, too much further is too much chance of a bad shot and trailing a wounded grizz.
Pretty sure high-powered magnum revolvers are the choice weapon for hunting bear in Alaska.
Yeah, but how do you get him to shoot it?
Imagine killing an autistic Roman LARPer with this.
>out of pistol is still subsonic
Ebic
>450 grain brass solids
if you're going to have bullets that heavy, why not just use lead?
So it doesn't deform as easily
my hands are much to womanly to handle that. im being honest when is ay it would probably snap my wrist in half (osteoperosis)
In black powder it's a pleasant cartridge, not much worse than 12ga. And if you handload, you can safely pud load it using black powder or trailboss. I load subsonic hard cast 45-70 using trailboss and they'll still take a black bear down in one clean shot
I'd look around again, anon, I found some trail boss running around just yesterday.
why are rimmed cases so sexy bros?
I like that cast performance 460gr WNFP. The load I worked up is the most accurate I've ever made.
Mind sharing that load data please?
Keep in mind that what's accurate for my gun is not necessarily going to be in yours.
Brass length 2.100
COAL 2.540
23gr of AA5744
460gr Cast Performance WNFPGC
Mild load, when hunting with hard cast the bullet is ultimately going to zip through anyway, so going hotter is just making it zip through faster. Ensuring good shot placement is king like every other cartridge.
Kinda want to go rabbit hunting with a 45-70 now…
Unironically, if you load subsonic Round Nose cast, you could probably take a rabbit cleanly enough because the bullet will go straight in and out leaving under a .458 sized hole due to the RN.
It's not optimal like a 22lr, but you'd have useable meat. I've thought about doing it with 45 Colt.
So question.. if I get into casting can I use the same rounds between 45 acp, 45 colt, and 45-70? I’ve got a 1911 and am looking at reloading and was wondering if theirs any carryover between the different sizes in terms of reloading gear…. I’m slowly talking myself into getting something like a s&w governer and then either a Winchester or marlin levergun
45 Colt and ACP are .451 or .452 diameter, they can share.
45-70, 458WM, etc are .458 diameter.
Can't share those.
With that said, for some of the lighter .458 bullets, like 300gr, you could run then through a .452 sizer and use them in 45 Colt pretty easy. Otherwise no, there's no crossover there.
I like the Winchester 1886 better than Marlin designs as they're less COAL sensitive and stronger, but it's up to the individual to determine what they want.
Since Trail Boss is unobtanium right now, there's always Unique which has published load data in my old Lyman Books. Makes good, economical plinkers. Unique has been hard to find though, so I've used Universal Clays as a substitute, it's a little cleaner.
Thank you, good to know. Figure if I’m gonna get some fun weird stuff may as well get as much cross capacity as I can. Really wish I could get the s&w in a longer barrel, or a judge or raging judge that took moon clips and 45 acp…. The raging judge running .454 casual looks great but being able to run regular 45 acp through a governer means I’m likely to get a lot more plinking practice out of it…
A few of the most popular cartridges with .452 diameter: 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 460 S&W, 450 Bushmaster, etc
No, the 45 cal pistols (and moronicly 450 bushmaster and 45 raptor) use shitty .452 cal, whereas the rest of 45 cal rifles are .458
I've killed a rabbit and a squirl with a .270 win.
Both headshots, meat was fine
Teddy would blast woodchucks with his suppressed .30-30 so go for it.
Even though it's probably dumb, I want to see the original image of this
3in 12 gauge slugs hit almost just as hard, I'll keep my current boomstick.
.45-70 is slightly better, as it has much better SD.
BUT a quality pump gun is $400-$500, in current year it seems all .45-70 rifles are around $1k at minimum.
Also a reminder, Breneke bear slugs aren't waterproof.
Can't wait to get my trapdoor Springfield.
>high capacity assault cartridges
Nah, they're totally safe. They'll only put a .458 sized hole in deer, whereas a 9mm will blow a person's lungs clean out of the exit wound.
So I should hunt with 9mm then, since it's so devastating
I’ve had good luck with the Buffalo bore
45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Ammo
430 gr. LBT-LFN @ 1,925 fps/M.E.3,537 ft lbs
I have an old handi rifle with 45-70, 22hornet, and 243 barrels. I could never get it to shoot that well the 45-70 does about 3.5” with plain 405gr jacketed loads. The 22hornet a bit better and the 243 dosnt eject reliably so I never used it. I’ve shot half a dozen deer with the 45-70 and it works well dosnt look like much more than a 308 for how much damage it does. If you get a handi get a rimmed cartridge I wish I got a 357 and 45-70 if I did it again.
That BB ammo must hurt like a b***h at the bench.
Never seen a need to load it that hot.
That gun weighs about 5.5lbs. It hurts period. I go the gun and ammo when I was 14. I thought it was so cool. I fired about 5 boxes of standard 405gr then 3 round group of the heavy shit (gun is so inaccurate I didn’t need to change zero was group was about the same at 50. I’ve since shot 8 deer with it and still have 9rounds left. Most at 5-10 yards straight down from my tree house.
>replaced by 30-40 Krag in 1890
>reds murdering people well into the 1970s
>thinks fuddyfive 70 defested them
what do these rifles look like, anon?
>wounded knee - 1890
>45-70 made obsolete -1892
>no one makes the 600gr molds anymore
No reason to use it now.
You know you can just get a custom mold made, right? They aren't even that expensive.
U can get 576, which is still pretty good.
>acme
homie roadrunner trying to get me to frick up
correct
I want a 45-70 leaver gun, but not enough to spend $1100 or whatever they cost.
Fricking compliers panick buying them in ban states inflating demand.
I think marlin has a 45-70 in the 700 range…
Not anymore.
The only model new marlin(ruger) makes is a stainless steel threaded barrel option, pic rail with aperature sight, 19" barrel, which most of that is nice is nice but the MSRP is $1399, and street price isn't much lower for them.
Well frick, I feel like I just saw a couple in new or nnearly new condition on funbroker for under 1k but of course now they’re gone.
Those were probably used remlin made marlins still going for $900
The levergat market is fricked, everyone in shit states are buying them up
I bought my 1895 back in early 2020 for $750 from a LGS. I bought two boxes of Hornady leverevolution on that same day for $70. Now the 1895 sells on gunbroker for $1300-$1900 and those same two boxes of Hornady 45-70 would cost $140. Shit has absolutely skyrocketed in the last two years.
The dollar's value has massively decreased in that time period.
may not like it? I fricking love shooting the 45-70, its a fun round. The only part I don't like is paying for it. Have you seen the Magnum Research revolver? Its so heavy it actually barely kicks. A .357 mag kicks way more.
That's a gayass bullet design. It is not aerodynamic.
Here is what peak bullet design looks like.
>peak design
>massive case taper
>shallow shoulder
>such shit QC bullet can be .309 - .312"
>nearly 11pm on a Sunday
>sketchy motherfrickers park their sketchy pickup in front of my property
>stroll out with my lever gat to see what's going on
>both of them think it's a shotgun
>see that their needs are met and that they're on their way
I am become boomer. No tweakers are gonna OD in front of my mailbox.
This vs 5.56, which is more powerful?
Power = work/elapsed time
Work = force x displacement
Displacement = 1/2(vinal v + initial v) x time
Force = mass x acceleration
Acceleration = final v - starting v / time
So if you want to know which is "more powerful, get to work homosexual.
ok Black person, or you can acknowledge that this isn't what he meant by "power." kinetic energy would be a better measure of what he's actually looking for, which is just a function of mass and velocity.
Kinetic energy has 0 to do with power, and is a garbage metric for bullets.
we both know that he didn't mean "energy over time" you fricking homosexual. that's not what "power" means to most non-autistic people.
why is kinetic energy a bad metric? it gives you the maximum amount of energy that can be potentially transferred into the target. if the bullet stops in the target then 100% of that energy will have been transferred. impact is often measured in foot-pounds, which is a measure of energy.
Because energy transfer doesn't stop a target.
And there's no way to even know total energy transfer, as it depends on the bullet stopping, or to what degree it slows down, which is immeasurable and random.
Remeber, kinetic energy does not wound.
Crushing damage from the projectile wounds, and the metric to describe that is force.
>Crushing damage from the projectile wounds, and the metric to describe that is force.
wouldn't a better measure be impulse? force will vary by what material the bullet is hitting, how much energy has already been lost, the surface area of the nose, etc.
either way, nobody is measuring shit in "power."
Force is not that dependant upon what it's hitting, force is force.
How that force acts apon the target can change, but humans are pretty simple, skin, soft tissue and bone.
>Kinetic energy = power
Lolno
clearly the anon wasn't talking about the physics meaning of power, but the colloquial meaning.
The colloquial meaning would be closer to force, definently not kinetic energy.
>what about power
Well hers how to find power
>N-NO THAT NOT WHAT I MEAN, I MEAN A TOTALLY MADE UP UNDEFINED DEFINITION OF POWER IS WHAT I MEAN
>TELL ME WHICH IS MORE POWERFUL BY MY UNDEFINED MADE UP METRIC
KYS troony Black person.
>power
>posts high school non-generalized equations
ngmi
get a load of this guy, he learned physics without calculus and now thinks these bullshit averages mean anything outside of very specific conditions.
It really depends on what you mean by powerful. The 45-70 takes most of the things 5.56 fanboys hate about the 7.62x39 and exaggerates it tenfold. The bullets are fatter and heavier and traveling at far lower speeds. Low velocity in addition to a big thump usually makes for a better woods hunting rifle, as the high velocity cartridges meant for plains game will absolutely obliterate meat at 100 yards. The 45-70 will drop off absurdly quickly, but it retains a shitload of energy at distance because of sheer weight. Notice in pic related that, despite it having dropped 19 feet from the original point of aim, the 45-70 retains more energy at 500 yards than the .223 does at 200 yards. The velocity of the .223 can generally compensate for this, but deer hunters recommend larger cartridges for a reason. Vid related.
whoops forgot pic
Interesting diagram . I load 45-70 405 acme coated bullets with 50 Grain 3031. Dead balls accurate and I notice no drop at 200, hell it shoots high. I get a similar poi for 13 grains of trail boss as well everything else the same
Paco Kelly will take the speculation out for you.
https://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/4570_leverguns.htm
Basically, it depends on your gun. A modern 1886 reproduction is good to 50,000psi. Within that pressure range you can send a 350gr jacketed bullet at 2300fps nets you 4100ft/lbs of energy.
But lets say we wanted to focus on conventional pressures for leverguns, at 40,000psi you can still send a 405gr bullet at 2000fps which is around 3600ft/lbs.
A Ruger No1, No3, and other falling blocks are stronger yet and can really send those bullets flying.
I'm not a glutton for punishment and while I trust Mr. Kelly, he has certainly put in the work, I don't want to be the guy to find out my 1886 repro wasn't as capable as his.
That's why I think 3in slugs will work fine for me, there's no real situation where a 45-70 would serve me over a slug gun.
5.56/.223 has greater wounding potential. If for some reason you think you need as much penetration as you can get 45-70 would be a better choice.
I'm am unaware of any good way of determining an actual loadings performance other than 10% calibrated ballistics gel tests.
That is one ugly dog. Also I like your rifle’s snow camo. Very realistic.
What gun should I get in .45-70? Anything particularly cool?
Browning based lever actions.
Yep, an 1886 is generally the way to go if you want a traditional lever that is also the best hanfloading platform.
Something not often talked about is the advantage the 1886 has in cycling longer OAL cartridges over a Marlin. In a Marlin 2.550 really is the maximum that will still cycle, but my 1886 will go out to 2.630(longest I've tested cycling).
Literal handgun caliber. I won't use anything less than .700 nitro express.
That is correct.
Can those sharps falling block rifles handle modern loads, or are they weak like the old trapdoors?
Falling blocks aren't weak, but I probably wouldn't load a Sharps or Highwall repro hotter than a lever action.
If you want to load things really hot you'll want a Ruger No1 in 45-70.
>990 yards
>bullet shaped like a potato