You could replace assault rifles/carbines with the MP7 and increase the effectiveness of the rifle squad, 4.6 cartridges are 60% of the weight of 5.56...

You could replace assault rifles/carbines with the MP7 and increase the effectiveness of the rifle squad, 4.6 cartridges are 60% of the weight of 5.56 and the MP7 itself weighs at least a kilo less than any assault rifle so soldiers could carry a lot more ammunition (or other force multipliers) and use it more liberally to suppress the enemy, in addition even with a suppressor the OAL of the MP7 is shorter than any intermediate caliber rifle unless it has a super short barrel. The MP7 is also easily controlled in full auto even more so than 5.56 and you could simplify logistics by issuing it as a handgun and PDW for support personnel with pistol holsters and 20 round magazines instead of supplying a separate handgun with 9mm.

The P90 is not competitive because it's an unergonomic blowback piece of shit that was designed as a movie prop.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I am 80% confident this thread was created by ChatGPT

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      GPT-0 says it's all human written

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        copy paste some gpt content into gpt0 and you'll realize gpt0 doesn't mean shit

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nah, GhatGPT writing is much better. More fluid prose. No run-on sentences. Its prose is also more coherent, stylistically speaking. Unlike OP, it knows how to write numbers and units correctly. It doesn't misuse parentheses. No low-brow remarks like 'piece of shit'. The list goes OP.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what's it's practical range, o all-knowing oracle?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >t. general still issuing bolt action rifles during trench warfare

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what is the effective range of 4.6?
    5.56 is about 600 meters to a tad more.
    the ap of 4.6 is gotta be under 100 meter right?

    are you actually purposing this or are you trolling im willing to interact but come on man.,

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      AP cartridges are obsolete, modern body armor will defeat anything short of a very high caliber round even if it is using hardened tungsten core projectiles, your best bet is to land multiple shots on a target to increase the chances of hitting a weak point where armor has already damaged or unprotected if you actually intend to disable a target with small arms fire. Alternatively the increased volume of fire offered by the MP7 would allow you to better suppress the enemy so they could be hit by fire support elements.

      9mm Parabellum has an effective range out of a SMG length barrel of about 100 meters, 4.6 has an effective range of 300 meters since it was designed to give support personnel a pistol that was competitive with the rifles used by Soviet paratroopers.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The current meta is to just aim for the groin.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The difference is that thanks to the high velocity cartridge of the MP7 it has a much greater effective range than a 9mm design like the MP9, more akin to a 5.56 rifle so the area you are compromising in which is effective range is much smaller to the point it's not relevant.

        Also thanks to the importance of combined arms MP7 armed riflemen would be at an advantage over Assault Rifle armed riflemen within those ranges, while the greater weight of their force multipliers beyond rifle range would compensate for the marginal advantage the assault rifle would have at extended ranges.

        An example, WWII the Polish and Soviet Soviet Infantry got their shit pushed in by Nazi infantry at any turn despite the fact that the Soviets and Poles had a longer effective range with their longer barreled rifles, because the Nazis leveraged the advantage of their more ergonomic Karabiners to carry more force multipliers into battle.

        The 5.56 platforms check more boxes and then some, also what range is this volume of fire supposed to be working at? MP7 is a cool toy I would love to own dont get me wrong, but it only became viable in a practical modern military context for SEALs who board ships and boats and barges to shoot unarmored floppies, usually suppressed. Like from bad breath distance, none of that armor piercing from 200m deal.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          modern body armor will stop any rifle caliber round. There are American soldiers who shrugged off getting shot in the head by 7.62x54r because of their helmets.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >modern body armor will stop any rifle caliber round
            Yet you propose an even smaller round to defeat the threat?
            >shrugged off getting shot in the head by 7.62x54r
            I've seen that footage, it's a fluke that he wasn't shot right through the brain pan and the round deflected off the top of the helmet where the curvature is the greatest.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              The MP7 is better because it's not compromising on any relevant performance characteristic while also being a better weapon overall.

              The Romans defeated the Greeks while using shorter spears because they were more ergonomic as an example.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >AP cartridges are obsolete
        the entire purpose of the MP7 is AP, if AP is obsolete, so is the MP7.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >100% true in the theorycrafting realm of neverserveds
          IRL, the point of a MP7 is its smaller than a SBR. It's for death squadding sleeping jihadis. Actually it's for the backup goons on the death squad who want to look different to feel special since they're support personnel. The shooters use 300 blackout. Nobody is concerned about armor.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            that has absolutely nothing to do with what the gun was designed for or what its used for today

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >what is death of the author
              Nobody cares what it was designed for. What it's used for is what matters and AP performance is irrelevant to that.

              Thanks anon.
              OP is tarded.

              P90 has has some stats to hold it up.
              MP7 has frick all.
              Both were made to fit specific niches.
              MP7 is great for a smaller package. Albeit, the round seems anemic.

              9mm seems obsolete these days. Specifically in SMG.

              SMGs are obsolete.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            imagine bragging that you were so unemployable you had to sign up for the only government job that won't turn you away so you can suckle the federal teat for the rest of your life instead of making something of yourself

            lol, lmao even

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              There are no self made men. I bet you think nepotism is bad too, homosexual.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    4.6 is gaytarded and has neither the range or terminal ballistics to match rifle calibers at the same time as being worse than 5.7. Replacing real rifles with MP7s for general use and the majority of applications is fantastically moronic.
    >The P90 is not competitive because it's an unergonomic
    skill issue

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The terminal ballistics of 4.6 are marginally superior because it has increased penetration over 5.7x30mm thanks to its smaller cross section and higher velocity, it has a better chance of damaging a vital organ when it penetrates the human body and therefore a better chance to instantly stop a target. Whereas 5.7 would cause more bleeding although the amount of bleeding generated by such a small diameter cartridge would be paltry.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >You could replace assault rifles/carbines with the MP7 and increase the effectiveness of the rifle squad
    I actually agree, but you've only made half the point. The weight and space saved by carrying an MP7 needs to be filled with force multipliers. More AT4s, a platoon grenadier with an M32 or XM25, thermobaric munitions for Carl Gs, fire and forget attack drones, the works. Its been no secret that MGs and explosives do most of the killing and riflemen basically just make noise, so you should capitalize on that by reducing the role of the rifleman and increasing the number of specialist weapons within the squad/platoon.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The difference is that thanks to the high velocity cartridge of the MP7 it has a much greater effective range than a 9mm design like the MP9, more akin to a 5.56 rifle so the area you are compromising in which is effective range is much smaller to the point it's not relevant.

      Also thanks to the importance of combined arms MP7 armed riflemen would be at an advantage over Assault Rifle armed riflemen within those ranges, while the greater weight of their force multipliers beyond rifle range would compensate for the marginal advantage the assault rifle would have at extended ranges.

      An example, WWII the Polish and Soviet Soviet Infantry got their shit pushed in by Nazi infantry at any turn despite the fact that the Soviets and Poles had a longer effective range with their longer barreled rifles, because the Nazis leveraged the advantage of their more ergonomic Karabiners to carry more force multipliers into battle.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The Soviet and British response to their early defeats against the Nazis was to replace their rifles with submachine guns so they could get a superior volume of fire over the Nazis under 100 meters too.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I can humor this. Mp7 type weapons with a backpack suicide drone. Maybe a guy with a Milkor and barrage of grenades. I like the xm25 idea. This strategy could replace lmg

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >This strategy could replace lmg
        Not really. Not in a conventional fight; and however much soldiers try to be asymmetric eventually the symmetric fight is what decides near-peer firefights.

        SMGs' failures are proof there is such a thing as too little stopping power and too little range. If it doesn't have assault rifle performance it's not good enough for conventional war. The path forward is slashing ammunition weight not crippling performance.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what an absolutely moronic and abysmal thread you've made, OP. well done

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    uhh based department??
    come have a look at this..

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Good idea. But chamber the MP7 in 5.7mm because Germans need to be punished for their autism.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      4.6 is a superior cartridge.

      Clearly it is actually the belgians who are autistic because they made a video game gun and tried to pass it off to the military while the Germans made an AR15 with the magwell in the pistol grip to reduce OAL and weight.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        5.7 and P90 were made around straight blowback to reduce cost and mass production.
        MP7 is the AR-18 (not AR-15) and it's kinda self defeating idea of PDW as cheaper gun working with conjunction with the real (and more expensive) infantry rifle.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The reason it's an AR18 is to improve accuracy and make it lighter.

          The P90 defeats the purpose of a PDW designed to be carried by men who can't carry rifles and can be accurate out to longer ranges than a 9mm submachine gun by being inaccurate and bulky. The MP7 only problem is that it costs more than a pistol which shouldn't matter for a first world military.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >The MP7 only problem is that it costs more than a assault rifle
            fixed for you

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Bad take. Switch to HK437 in .300 blk like Bundeswehr does.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That's too long and heavy, therefore it is shit. The G39 is a special operations weapon and not a standard service rifle or PDW.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    LSAT would have done the same thing, but with a far more effective round.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Gun in 4.6x26R round be better.
    It's has 1.5 better ballistic coefficient, more range.
    Round weights just 3.6 grams vs 7 grams of the 4.6.
    Muzzle velocity per barrel length is the same.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Interesting ammo did it ever get produced or got some weapons made for it?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Interdynamics MKR

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If you are going for pure spray power then maybe. If I recall these were 50rd mags and the brass case was .22 WMR turned into a needle.
      OP wants a rain of micro bullets. That usually means belts, a SAW does this job. So chamber a PKM for this.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/vMtjRAf.jpg

      Interdynamics MKR

      >bubbas pissing hot 17 hmr is just as good as 4.6
      3/4 scale 17hmr AR when?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        pissing hot 17 hmr is just as good as 4.6
        Its actually much much better.
        DM11 31gr has atrocious 0.141 G1 ballistic coefficient due to fat short ogive bullet (consequences of trying to fit round into pistol grip).
        4.5x26R has whooping 0.241 G1 ballistic coefficient even with 24gr bullet due to extremely min maxed streamlined bullet form (55gr M193 has 0.260 G1). It absolutely trashes 4.6 at range.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I have a 12" 17hmr revolver that will do 2200fps with factory ammo, I'd love to get it going faster

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >The P90 is not competitive because it's an unergonomic blowback piece of shit that was designed as a movie prop.
    then why did it win the original NATO PDW tender Krautcuck

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      How come no relevant military uses the P90? There were sales in the dozens to a few army special forces units back in the early 2000s.

      Meanwhile the MP7 is actually used as a PDW by the Bundeswehr and Sweden since they started rearming and joined NATO. Not to mention its use in the similar special forces niche.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Bundeswehr and Sweden
        well that's basically the whole world. even in your own words that certainly better than a dozen militaries. its definitely not a glorified police PCC

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The list of military units on there is tiny and you don't see pictures of them using the P90 from the last 15-20 years.

          Germany has like 500,000 MP7s in inventory while the largest order listed here is 900 to Suriname. Which sounds like a name for a fictional country that serves as a stand in for Japan in a saturday morning cartoon.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Germany has a German gun funded by the German government
            Ya don't say

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              The Belgians don't use the P90 so what gives?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Oh I see, the mp7 is the only gun Germany uses

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Can you read? There's a 10,000 order in there for Lebanon

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Lebanon is a failed state and there isn't a single picture of a Lebanese person with a P90. We can safely conclude that that order fell through or never existed in the first place.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >500,000 MP7
            LMAO no it fricking doesn't sperglord.

            Meanwhile the P90 is literally FN's best selling product per director of global sales in his interview with Larry Vickers. P90s are all over the place and I say this ad someone who prefers the MP7.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Since we're on the subject of PDWs, why hasn't anyone tried to make a PDW chambered in .30 carbine?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Uuuuuh, that's literally the first thing they did with the cartridge? The M1 is a PDW by all definitions of the concept. I actually can't tell if you're memeing or not.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      300 blacked does the same job but better w/ more part compatibility.

      https://i.imgur.com/Nw0qZWG.png

      You could replace assault rifles/carbines with the MP7 and increase the effectiveness of the rifle squad, 4.6 cartridges are 60% of the weight of 5.56 and the MP7 itself weighs at least a kilo less than any assault rifle so soldiers could carry a lot more ammunition (or other force multipliers) and use it more liberally to suppress the enemy, in addition even with a suppressor the OAL of the MP7 is shorter than any intermediate caliber rifle unless it has a super short barrel. The MP7 is also easily controlled in full auto even more so than 5.56 and you could simplify logistics by issuing it as a handgun and PDW for support personnel with pistol holsters and 20 round magazines instead of supplying a separate handgun with 9mm.

      The P90 is not competitive because it's an unergonomic blowback piece of shit that was designed as a movie prop.

      Good idea but give it more juice than the 4.6 PDW and take away the brass.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        moronic selector lever aside I'm kinda impressed how well they made the G11 look

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >She isn't sexy in all forms

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Ukraine could use a P-90, but chambered in 5.45 with a super long and tall 150-round magazine spanning the top. Basically a SAW you can carry around in your pocket in the trenches

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I fricking hate US elections can you cuck go leave?

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    they should issue everyone two (2) vz61's in .380 ACP, each with 20 40 round mags. the volume of fire will make up for the weakness of the cartridge. It would also be lightweight and easy to carry. It would also increase morale because it is badass.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    P90 is cooler, P90 is better, 5.7x28 is better.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >ignores even the best plates are only rated for 1 round of blacktip
    >thinks ARs aren't controllable while a PDW magically is
    >proposing several sacrifices for saturation fire that we already have SAWs/LMGs for
    are you deliberately this moronic OP? Not even underage and foreigners are this bad at guns. You have to be a journalist as a day job or something.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      If volume of fire didn't matter because muh machine guns then automatic rifles wouldn't have displaced bolt actions.

      The fact of the matter is that you want to have every advantage possible in combat.

      Also no one uses tungsten ammunition as standard issue, at best you will use hardened steel.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    the p90 btfo the mp7 tho. the ergonomics wouldnt be an issue cause the men would get used to it soon enough. still a moronic idea though and whats happening is the other way around with sbrs replacing pdws.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No the P90 sucks dick

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No, you suck dick

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        You've never so much as touched a p90 in your life lol

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It is french, so yes.

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The problem with the hypothetical smg infantry question is:
    >a lot of these guns are literally 6-10 MOA so awful for 300+ meter fights or first rounds hits
    Inb4 "most fighting takes place inside of.." when weapons are roughly matched. If the opposition knows you're at a significant disadvantage past X range do you think that maybe they'd attempt to engage at beyond those distances more often
    >poorer helmet penetration at range
    Frequently the only part exposed on someone shooting at you
    >poorer terminal effects at all ranges but especially longer ranges
    More seconds to incapacitate up close. Frequently even garbage m855 out of a 14.5" can incapacitate with a single shot to the chest at close ranges. These smg rounds not so much. Much much more time to incapacitate at range even on a hit. Like poking a pencil led point through someone and waiting for them to bleed out.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      5.56 won't penetrate a modern helmet, only those shitty steel helmets.

      The MP7 is 3MOA, part of the reason they designed it around a gas piston system instead of blowback like 9mm SMGs.

      Single shots from 4.6 will incapacitate an unarmored target, 5.56 and 4.6 would both fail against anything but the shittiest of armor. Stopping power is determined by if you hit a vital organ so beyond reliably penetrating the body you just need good shot placement.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Single shots from 4.6 will incapacitate an unarmored target
        read the GWOT stories about sprinkling rounds effectively: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4338-Small-Caliber-PDW-s-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm
        You're posting about the shitty poorgay cousin of 9x19mm.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          This is just cognitive bias from NPCs who don't know what they're talking about.

          The first guy claims that you have to spray someone on full auto with 4.6 in order to incapacitate them because it lacks "stopping power" and yet he also claims they don't use full auto in CQB.

          The MP7 has a cyclic rate of 950rpm, which is about 60 milliseconds between rounds, it would be literally impossible for someone to get shot and give enough time for the shooter to judge if they had been incapacitated before he shot him again if he was firing on him full auto.

          Police input is entirely worthless on any subject relating to stopping power because they always dump a full magazine anyways.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Those aren't NPCs Black person. They're GWOT vets with multiple CQB kills. How many people how you shot with a MP7?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              The one guy (who they don't name) claims to be a GWOT veteran, the other two are cops.

              CQB is not a real thing by the way so if someone was SOF and claims to have gotten CQB kills that means they are a fraud and a liar. The potential risk of sending a man into an enclosed position with suicide bombers is even more suicidal for the guy they are sending in.

              His description is obviously a unrealistic since he claims you would have to shoot your target dozens of times with the MP7 because muh stopping power before they would stop, even though he is describing a fraction of a second in real time where he would not be able to even begin to observe someone's reaction to being shot in such a short timeframe.

              Beyond that if someone was a soldier that put themselves in a risky position in a war like serving as infantry then that means they are uneducated and stupid because they lacked the technical qualifications to get a more luxurious job in the military like flying fighter jets and instead had to join the cannon fodder corps and they were stupid enough to join the military in the first place. So I have less respect for their opinion on any subject, especially combat and war than I would if I listened to a random person on the street.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >CQB is not a real thing by the way so if someone was SOF and claims to have gotten CQB kills that means they are a fraud and a liar. The potential risk of sending a man into an enclosed position with suicide bombers is even more suicidal for the guy they are sending in.
                Wachu mean "not a real thing"? It happened in Afghanistan, I've seen video here on /k/ of special forces raiding houses

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                He's a moronic contrarian shitting up the board.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >CQB is not a real thing by the way so if someone was SOF and claims to have gotten CQB kills that means they are a fraud and a liar. The potential risk of sending a man into an enclosed position with suicide bombers is even more suicidal for the guy they are sending in.
                Not him but wtf is this. You and I both know SOF enters buildings. That SOF carries MP7s and presumably because they're effective at the ranges they carry them for. That SOF sometimes has gunfights at close ranges regardless of whether or not it was planned.
                Stop being a dingus.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >That SOF carries MP7s
                Because they are very very quite with subsonics. Its basically modern suppressed Ruger MKII/III pistols that had use in SoF before.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >CQB is not a real thing
                What is Fallujah?
                have a nice day before you manage to breed, you moronic coward

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You need to take a step back and objectively consider that you might be irrationally fixated on your delusions on a weapons system you know nothing about, and in general that you are talking about subjects you know nothing about.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Nah soldiers are dumbasses with anecdotes and poor cognitive ability.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Those aren't NPCs Black person. They're GWOT vets with multiple CQB kills. How many people how you shot with a MP7?

          >https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4338-Small-Caliber-PDW-s-FN-5-7-mm-HK-4-6-mm
          That old chestnut is ancient... which would be fine if we had lots of newer accounts from over the years saying the same things. But we don't. Just that same old anonymous post.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >Just that same old anonymous post.
            It's not anonymous the dude is literally a dentist that made an online fursona as a ballistics expert.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >It's not anonymous the dude is literally a dentist that made an online fursona as a ballistics expert.
              Remember how did he try to trash M855A1 lol?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >It's not anonymous the dude is literally a dentist that made an online fursona as a ballistics expert
              Oh OK sorry, I didn't realize he was a furry dentist with an internet forum presence. Clearly a subject matter expert.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Clearly a subject matter expert.
                Yes, actually. He was one of the top expert online commenters of the 1990s-2010s and contributed more to popularizing the modern level of ballistics knowledge than you ever will.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >He was one of the top expert online commenters of the 1990s-2010s
                wow the bona fides just keep rolling in with this guy

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            A few months ago some Colorado PD released footage of their SWAT team dropping a suspect with an MP7, maybe the only footage of someone being killed with one. He gets hit with a 7or 8rd burst in about half a second and the guy goes down. Report says he died at the hospital but the bodycam footage has him unresponsive and decorticate posturing after that one burst.

            I've also seen plenty of footage of SOF guys talking about needing to hose down someone with half a mag from an mp7 to drop them, but again as anon above said, we're talking about like 1 second on the trigger for the gun to fire that many rounds. We also know that 5.7 outperforms it ballistically per NATO trials, and while we've all heard the "stop shooting me" anecdote (itself almost certainly bullshit that doesn't pass the smell test) I've also seen LEO testimony on those same forums talking about the P90 yielding one-shot stops with no exit wounds.

            The reality is that these are calibers plagued by fuddlore and exacerbated by the manufacturers being on an active smear campaign against each other, the fact that for several decades the rounds were frickexpensive and only one company made each one and very few weapons fired them.

            Actual data seems to indicate that 5.7 at least is fairly on-par with 9mm, but with less recoil, higher capacity, and depending on the loading better penetration. And that's all these PDW cartridges were ever meant to do, and they seem to do it. At this point we've all seen the cops hit some crackhead with 100 rounds of 9mm, miraculously miss anything vital, and the suspect surviving, and we've all seen someone take 1 gold dot in the A zone and drop like a bag of hammers. As someone who decided to check out these 5.7 guns with the new availability and with it pricedrops, what I'll say is, IMO it's kind of a meme out of a handgun (due to the size of the guns mostly) but out of a 10.5" barrel it's nasty shit.

            Oh yeah and OP is moronic btw.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              >I've also seen plenty of footage of SOF guys talking about needing to hose down someone with half a mag from an mp7 to drop them, but again as anon above said, we're talking about like 1 second on the trigger for the gun to fire that many rounds.

              Yea, but the problem is that if you need half a mag to kill someone, even setting aside that a second of trigger time is still far longer then 1 or 2 trigger pulls with 5.56, you can kill 2 max badguys before needing to reload vs a carbine where you have 10 dead badguys in your gun.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >even setting aside that a second of trigger time is still far longer then 1 or 2 trigger pulls with 5.56, you can kill 2 max badguys before needing to reload vs a carbine where you have 10 dead badguys in your gun.
                Doesn't consistent with combat footage

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Proofs? The preceding post literally acknowledges that there is almost zero footage of the MP7 ever getting used, or do you want to argue that 5.56 is not a one shot stop 80% of the time?

                https://www.tierthreetactical.com/analyzing-1800-shootings-which-caliber-has-the-best-stopping-power/

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >or do you want to argue that 5.56 is not a one shot stop 80% of the time?
                I argue nobody shoots just 1 5.56 in combat.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I know this might shock you, but the military does carry more then 10 rounds in their mag. Even if you miss half your shots and want to put 3 bullets into every hostile, that's still 5 dead badguys because there are 30 rounds in a mag.

                https://i.imgur.com/muIJPHU.jpg

                That's not me but again the only combat footage we have of the MP7 shows a guy dropping from one very short burst, less rounds than in multiple instances we see CAG using Mk18s in the recent gopro leaks.

                Again nobody here is arguing that 5.7 or 4.6 is more effective than 5.56 (except maybe OP who again, is a moron), but it should say a lot to you that even with the apparently reputation as a weapon that won't reliably drop a BG in 1 shot (and it should probably be said, a lot of these dudes are bullshitters, that's just the nature of the beast and it's unfortunate that in this very specific instance we mostly have to just take them at their word), SOF units would still take PDWs over Mk18s when the capacity and form factor were desirable, which should indicate to you that it was effective ENOUGH.

                Again, OP's moronic hypothetical should be dismissed out-of-hand, but there's clearly a very good argument for these weapons being utilized in situations where 9mm SMGs are traditionally used. Which, again, was the entire premise of the PDW trials in the first place.

                I agree that they perform as well as 9mm while being far lighter, but this isn't the 1980s and we have better rounds that are designed to get rifle performance out of carbine lengths. If you read up on why the MP7 is taken out by special forces on occasions, it's because it's the minimum viable product that allows them to defend themselves if things have gone sideways while allowing them to either lessen their weight to carry more specialized gear for plan A, or niche cases where even the length of a carbine is still too much, as show in that picture where they're operating inside of a civilian vehicle. There's a reason that PDWs fell out of favor with even the special forces and instead things like .300 memeout and other similar rounds took off.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Even if you miss half your shots and want to put 3 bullets into every hostile, that's still 5 dead badguys because there are 30 rounds in a mag.
                This is straight up delusional. If you're talking potential, any bullet can kill in 1. If you're talking about practicality, you're off by a factor of multiple thousands. Either way you're delusional. First of all, 5.56 isn't doing the majority of killing. Not even among just small arms. Actually comical post, my guy. Check yourself into a mental hospital.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >jump into a discussion of small arm lethality in CQB with akschually artillery kills people in war

                Most literate poster on /k/ right here.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >There's a reason that PDWs fell out of favor with even the special forces and instead things like .300 memeout and other similar rounds took off.
                The photo I posted is from the CAG leaks, it's only a few years old.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                My ruger LC charger with the stock extended and a suppressor on it is the same length as my mk18 without a can on it tho.

                The appeal is clearly how small the guns are for their capacity IMO.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                That's not me but again the only combat footage we have of the MP7 shows a guy dropping from one very short burst, less rounds than in multiple instances we see CAG using Mk18s in the recent gopro leaks.

                Again nobody here is arguing that 5.7 or 4.6 is more effective than 5.56 (except maybe OP who again, is a moron), but it should say a lot to you that even with the apparently reputation as a weapon that won't reliably drop a BG in 1 shot (and it should probably be said, a lot of these dudes are bullshitters, that's just the nature of the beast and it's unfortunate that in this very specific instance we mostly have to just take them at their word), SOF units would still take PDWs over Mk18s when the capacity and form factor were desirable, which should indicate to you that it was effective ENOUGH.

                Again, OP's moronic hypothetical should be dismissed out-of-hand, but there's clearly a very good argument for these weapons being utilized in situations where 9mm SMGs are traditionally used. Which, again, was the entire premise of the PDW trials in the first place.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Most sane post I've seen on /k/ in years

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Thanks anon.
              OP is tarded.

              P90 has has some stats to hold it up.
              MP7 has frick all.
              Both were made to fit specific niches.
              MP7 is great for a smaller package. Albeit, the round seems anemic.

              9mm seems obsolete these days. Specifically in SMG.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This is nothing new.

    The issue is when resupply gets tough, war is large scale, or you otherwise cannot keep feeding the machineguns and rocket launchers, having widespread rifles becomes important.
    A force dependent on special weapons runs out of ammo faster even when they perform well in short engagements.
    Being left with just 200 yard weapons after engaging in intense conflict for multiple days without resupply would leave you vulnerable.

    It is still viable, and great for commandos and specops. But having everyone able to engage out to at least 600 yards when the machinegun is down, and nades and rockets have run out is valuable. If any force can flank you at 500 yards and remain untouched by you they will make life miserable. 300-500 yards is common even in suburban areas. It is not like going from 1500 yards to only 600 where most places wont allow the extreme ranges anyways.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The effective ranges of weapons aren't. They're the flat range bulleye numbers or the early Cold War stats along lines like "50% chance of hitting a standing target in the open 50% of the time."
      Real effective ranges where you can actually expect to kill what you see are much, much lower. Like 1-2m for a pistol, 30m for a SMG, 150-200m for a rifle or 500-600m for a machinegun. Yes this is with GWOT optics btw.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Well yeah you need to be able to hit a head peaking out, not a man standing in a field.
        But the ranges are still based on energy retained and reasonable trajectory.
        A good 5.56 ar can hit a small exposed target to 300 yards without much drop compensation, and a .308 to 500-600. Both can be stretched out to double that with a lot of drop and much less intuitive trajectory by a skilled shooter. Giving you about 600, and 1200 yard ranges.

        An mp7 is hard locked to a short range because the tiny projectile will not retain energy that far away, and will be deflected by wind easily.

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Hybrid case upping the powder charge to make them spicier is intriguing. Would tolerate as significant weight increase at that form factor to have something as anti-armor effective as full 20'' AR 556 inside of 50m.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You could use cum as an alternative fuel source if you consider my ass as a combustible engine.

    You will never own a MP7 as a civilian, end of story.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      you're literally gonna be able to buy them for like 3.5k soon, which isnt worth it but not impossible for most people

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Gee I wonder who couldbe behind this post

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      GO SHARP
      GO SHARP

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Still, blue flamed AR2 is much cooler and beat the same cartidge 30 times for 30 shots.

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Mogs you in 45ACP

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I've used that thing in video games far more than in real life even for shits and giggles.

      Also here's a meme pic.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        oh god, MUH DICK!

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I like it in Tarkov too buddy but it really isn't a going to replace a standard issue rifle.

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >polymer ammo is lighter
    >hybrid cases allow lighter with higher PSI
    >a round 30% smaller than a 556 can conceivably still be 55-62gr and move at nearly 3k fps to closely match 556
    >meaning you can fit it into the grip, decreasing OAL by 4~ inches and firearm weight
    >it increases carried ammo
    >frees up real estate beneath barrel for full time occupation of 40mm
    All soldiers should engage fire fights with nonstop fire and liberal deployment of explosives. The only factor that has ever been proven to increase success in fire fights is volume of fire, increase it.

  28. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I want a future where ammo is so light weight that it is normal for a combatant to carry 1000 rounds for the same weight as now.
    Spray and pray is king.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Our guy Kellgren delivered 40 years ago. But you, boomers, rejected his preaching.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        QRD? Can’t make out the tiny writing

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Can’t make out the tiny writing

          Open the pic in a new tab

  29. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    OK except 4.6x30 falls in the same category of "overgrown .22 wmr" as 5.7 and would be useless outside 100 yards at absolute max. I have an AR in 4.6, it's fun but you're fricking insane if you think it could replace literally any cartridge in military use right now

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Funny all these people sperging out about firepower and range when during WWII everyone used submachine guns in 9mm with less range and firepower than 4.6 and no one complained.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Having a couple dudes out of a group of full powered rifles equipped with subguns is not the same and replacing 5.56 with 4.6 you nonce

  30. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    makes more sense to give everyone telescoping stock mk18's with short flowthrough cans and plastic-cased ammo. Still enough punch to fight but easy to stow and deploy drones, ATGM's, grenade launchers, or other munitions.

  31. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    An MP7 with a bottom pic rail just looks wrong to me.

  32. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    caring about the weight of your ammo kek. have I been transported back to Vietnam to the Jungle where that mattered?? Are you a sissy or a female OP?

  33. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    5.56 replicates .308 wounding inside of it's given range envelope, and 4.6 doesn't stack up to 9mm wounding, which is impressive in a perverse, counterproductive way. No, the mp7 can't replace .223 rifles, the cartridge is almost as minmaxed as current technology allows

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      wound channels are valid concerns if you're a hunter and you're trying to determine the best cartridge for making sure an animal you shoot dies from blood loss if you don't get a vital hit.

      In combat what matters is having the penetration to hit someone in the vitals if you do land a shot so 4.6 is way more lethal than 9mm. With bad shot placement you can hit someone with a .50 cal and not stop them because it will just go right through and leave a half inch wide hole without hitting anything that will force them to stop.

  34. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    mp7, p90 and their respective calibers was intended to replace 9mm altogether.
    the terminal requirements was the same as 556 ss109 etc, aka punch a hole in a steel plate, and perforate the Crisat target representing 80s soft armor dude.
    9mm barely manages at like 30m, 5.7 and 4.6 does it to 200m.

    its a great concept. a 2kg mp7 is a small handy package. 10" 3kg ar15 sucks balls with ss109 anyways, so might as well go smaller caliber at that point.

    the drawbacks are the shitty performance in handguns, HK dropped theirs, the 5.7 is meh thanks to the bigger caliber.

    However, i bet this will change with all the high pressure ammo, literally every manufacturer is jumping that bandwagon. a mp7 with 2500fps 40gr fmj, or the 31gr steel projectiles at about 2700.
    you'd get mp7 performance out of a 5" handgun.
    Barrel wear would be increased alot, but who cares for rear echelon PDW thats not intended to see much use. cost of barrels are like 5% of the ammo they shoot too, so getting more performance at the cost of barrel life makes sense.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The MP7 is basically a large handgun, it's about the same weight as a deagle but you can actually control it. It also fits into a pistol holster. Hence why they cancelled the P46.

      The P90 on the other hand is nowhere near as ergonomic.

  35. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    The absolute state of nu /k/. Why don’t you go to the Louisiana constitutional carry thread and seethe more about loosing gun restrictions.

  36. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Is the PDW concept even all that relevant in a modern military? What do they do that a SBR doesn't? Hell, this whole business was influenced by the AKS-74u anyway.

  37. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    you need to be at least 18 to post here

  38. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what gun would be like the mp7 that I could carry

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