Wtf happened to the Russian military industrial complex?

Wtf happened to the Russian military industrial complex? The USSR used to be able to pump out thousands of tanks a year, now the Russians are running out of tanks after a year long special military operation.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    ww2 didn't need sophisticated electronics
    just a box of steel with a cannon, basically

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      russian tanks and jets use vacuum tubes

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        that was decades ago.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          russia is using decades old tanks

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Entire industrialization was done by US and european, mainly german, egineers with 100% of their techs of that time. Without access to western brain USSR simply collapsed, beacuse it never evolved.

      >525.4 thousand tons of rolled steel of all types was delivered to the USSR under Lend-Lease.
      And its only one position.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    KGB sabotage. Internal, long term sabotage at every level they could think of, up to and including keep the environmental pressures and reward systems their to reward sefldestruction

    [...]

    >- have incompetent leadership like any other 3rd world authoritarian state, on pretty much all levels of command ladder
    They aren't actually incompetent. Its just that mafiya and hostile Oppression apparati have entirely different goals than what we presume increases a nations power. Their goals are to ensure access to a way of laundering wealth and then maintain access to that wealth, most of which was acquired through theft one way or another, and various other forms of black market goods and services.

    When you understand this, you understand that they remain stunningly brilliant. But still human. They err. Ukraine is that mistake.

    [...]

    >- have incompetent leadership like any other 3rd world authoritarian state, on pretty much all levels of command ladder
    >- are rampantly kleptocratic to the point of it impacting operational ability
    >- lack industrial capacity and skill to even produce early 2000s level of tech
    >- have such bad morale that senior officers have to go to the frontline to get the troops moving
    is all intentional. A Russia that shook off corruption and a military that valued capable men would lead to a small civil war to finish what Zhukov started and then undo the damage that rampant mafiya caused. But the West, America and Britain in particular, would get pissy about the vague possibility of Russia reindustrializing and managing to bribe and blackmail its way into getting EU investments direct to them instead of China. Which leads to a possibility of the Union State being more than a spiteful joke. It leads to Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan rejoining Moscow by 2015, setting the stage for Russia becoming a true great power....that is friendly and supportive of the EU....

    Which means the KGB and mafiya are dead and can't launder money.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The truth of the matter is that it was never that good to begin with and even the best of their most modern/top of the line equipment was a at a minimum a decade behind their Western counterparts even during the height of the Cold War. Plus there's the fact that Russia had a societal and economic collapse that they've never really recovered from.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Funnily enough, they did that with the factories USA build there during WW2 as a part of Lend Lease. And the later Soviet derivatives of those.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Ukraine designed and built the soviet space program, navy, air force, armored and mechanized forces, etc. Historically, Ukraine is a giant factory for Russia.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      This, for all intents and purposes.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      This, for all intents and purposes.

      brainwashed Black folk. who designed t34?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        A russian called Mikhail Koshkin

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >In 1937, the Red Army assigned him to lead design bureau KB-190 to design a replacement for the BT tanks at the Kharkiv Komintern Locomotive Plant (KhPZ) in Kharkiv.
          >in Kharkiv

          Lies, he was actually an ukrainian and his real name was Mykhailo Koshenko.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            A russian dude designed an awful and expensive tank in UA, but it worked due to attrition. And?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        the worst tank of the war that hindered russian war effort and killed more of its crew than stalins purges?
        That was also an ukranian. And he was based.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Take a look at their GDP

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They're headed towards reindustrialization anyway, Putin wants all of Ukraine.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >They're headed towards reindustrialization anyway,

      That was the hope since 2014 when he annexed Crimea!

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Losing a lot of your industrial base because your former imperial holdings hate you and left the second they had the chance and then being turned into a kleptocracy where everyone steals everything even if it *is* nailed down as a part of accepted military/gov't culture turns out to be really shitty for your long-term war prospects.

    And then if you have a leader whose favorite thing is seeing if various people in his orbit have the ability to fly when defenestrated you're not gonna get any accurate estimate of numbers or capability when asked. It's just gonna be "paper says I have 100 functioning T-80Us that I definitely did not strip for parts five years ago? then...da. I have 100 functioning T-80Us, just finished polishing the treads this morning." all the way down.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That use of defenestrated was just *chef's kiss*

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Communism destroys the souls of men, and so their whole state is a hollow corpse staggering a few steps past death before finally collapsing entirely.

    At some point the Russian people will have a regenesis, but they will have to purge themselves of the ghost of Communism first.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      If you think of China as a step forward from the USSR model, modern-day Russia is a step backward. For instance, religion is obviously returning to most of the post-Soviet countries and playing a huge role in society. Along with that, the patriarchal society, overly rich and powerful oligarchs, organized criminals, gangs, human trafficking, unchecked and low-paid special forces, corrupt cops and officials, self-governed minority states/zones all reemerge in the society. To some extent, there is a strong feudalist element of the Russian Federation. It's a like modernized feudal society.

      Those conservative and backward cultures and atmosphere are able to return because of the huge vacuum of the ideology and failure of the government. The government cannot control but has to rely on those interest groups to help the government stabilize and enhance the solidarity of the society. Though they are ultimately harmful to every Russian, they are necessary to make the country still look and function like a country. Russia's model is just a zombie version of the USSR.

      But basically, Russia or the USSR really lacked a figure like Deng Xiaoping to inherit and develop the model. Deng could start the reform while the majority of the old-school officials complained and resisted, ask the raging students to sit down, and dare to take the blame himself. Gorbachev acted like a b***h, got humiliated by Yeltsin, refused to take the major responsibility and made pizza commercials starring himself.

      Russia:

      China:

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        as if the mainland regime is any better. Instead of traditional boyars-aristocrats you have party officials of various stations empowered by the oligarchs owning the manufacturing base. Same as in Russia where the bulk of the boyars emerging around the new tzardom originated from soviet bureaucracy. Same shit, different pile

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/0j3c8dz.jpg

      If you think of China as a step forward from the USSR model, modern-day Russia is a step backward. For instance, religion is obviously returning to most of the post-Soviet countries and playing a huge role in society. Along with that, the patriarchal society, overly rich and powerful oligarchs, organized criminals, gangs, human trafficking, unchecked and low-paid special forces, corrupt cops and officials, self-governed minority states/zones all reemerge in the society. To some extent, there is a strong feudalist element of the Russian Federation. It's a like modernized feudal society.

      Those conservative and backward cultures and atmosphere are able to return because of the huge vacuum of the ideology and failure of the government. The government cannot control but has to rely on those interest groups to help the government stabilize and enhance the solidarity of the society. Though they are ultimately harmful to every Russian, they are necessary to make the country still look and function like a country. Russia's model is just a zombie version of the USSR.

      But basically, Russia or the USSR really lacked a figure like Deng Xiaoping to inherit and develop the model. Deng could start the reform while the majority of the old-school officials complained and resisted, ask the raging students to sit down, and dare to take the blame himself. Gorbachev acted like a b***h, got humiliated by Yeltsin, refused to take the major responsibility and made pizza commercials starring himself.

      Russia:

      China:

      Communism in a nutshell
      http://livingstingy.blogspot.com/2023/03/three-problems-with-communal-ownership.html?m=1

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        What a joke lol
        >my board game club was dysfunctional so communism will never work
        >one large business is more efficient than a lot of small ones… wait never mind having a government monopoly managed by elected or appointed officials sounds like socialism don’t do that, just keep the small businesses actually

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The made the stupid mistake in the history of military procurement and logistics: they started to rely on NATO countries to supply them with advanced electronics. Also massive brain drain since the economical collapse in the 1990s.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Also massive brain drain since the economical collapse in the 1990s.
      That brain drain was nothing compared to the first 20 years of the Soviet regime. Basically anyone economically successful or university educated was exiled, murdered, or fled the country. Russia has really never recovered from the Revolution. Probably never will.

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The USSR's MIC was mostly centered in Ukraine.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      For tanks and armored vehicles, yes, as well as transport planes. But not for fighters. But still, Ukraine was a major technological powerhouse within the USSR, per capita probably much smarter than the Russians.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You forgot the elephant in the room - missile tech.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I unfortunately know very little about this subject. I thought Almaz Antey was the big player in this area.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Basically the majority of soviet rocketly development came from Ukraine. From the smallest ones all the way to the space rockets and ICBMs. Pretty much all the big name rocket scientists leading soviet scieitifc advancements like Korolev(everything), Yangel(Storable liquid fuel rockets, basically all their ICBMs), Glushko(rocket engines in general), Chelomey(missile tech) all came from Ukraine. Numerous soviet icons were developed there, for example the R-36 heavy ICBM family and the R-73 Archer air-to-air missile.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              That's pretty fricking cool, I had no idea.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              The only notable non-Ukrainian name for soviet rocketry tech would be Alexander Nadziradze, a Georigian responsible for the solid fueled family of road mobile missiles like RSD-10 Pioneer and the Topol ICBM.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Wow, anon!

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >For tanks and armored vehicles
        and helicopter engines, and rocket engines

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    USSR MIC overspending and bankrupting the country was the reason USSR fell apart in the first place.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    There is no USSR. Only the cummiest of Serbjeets confuse the Russian Federation with USSR + Warsaw Pact especially on a supposed weapons board.

    Explain why you're so stupid. Do it now.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    When the iron curtain feel, the workers working conditions and pay fell. So the smart ones fricked off to the west or elsewhere. Russia stopped or majorly reduce military spending aside from corrupt backroom deals. The corruption spread downward in the military as officers would sell shit to the west or China. Supply officers would sell shit on the blackmarket. Grunts station to guard vehicle longterm storage stole copper wiring from tanks, helicopters, and migs. South Africa is going through a similar thing

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It never existed. Only really existed in America. >Our arms dealers operate with impunity across

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Corruption and drunkeness.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Cannot longer rely on slave labor

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Communism/socialism sucks ass anon. This is why economies, population growth, trade deals, foreign policy, and technological research matter.

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    You can't produce armored vehicles the same way as in WW2. The materials, electronics and sensors have gotten much more complex, are much more expensive and take much longer to produce then the old steel and iron tanks of WW2. Russia however is poor and corrupt which is why the T-14 was never mass produced.

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    A good chunk of their manufacturing was in countries that broke away from the USSR.

    but after 91 the Russian defence budget was barely sufficient to keep the metaphorical lights on and they had so much hardware left over there wasnt enough demand to keep the production lines running for a gazillion different parts to maintain their equipment.
    And of course after the cold war the last thing on most Russians mind was another showdown with the west so they probably didnt see the harm in letting a lot of their capabilities atrophy because they didnt imagine a scenario where they might need to start churning out hundreds of vehicles cut off from western electronics

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Oligarchy and America happened. Some factories were killed because their existence was "less than ideal" for America. Some just out of pure idiotism. Same in Belarus and Ukraine, really, just to a perhaps lesser extent

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >The USSR used to be able to pump out thousands of tanks a year

    The USSR no longer exists, Anon.
    It also fell apart for a reason.
    Protip: things haven't gotten better since then.

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Liberalization and shock therapy.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >moron believing fake soviet stats
      The 90s were not the start of the crash, the 90s were when the crash got arrested and reversed into growth.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You should see the CIA "Facts" about the soviet union during the cold war.

        >Average Soviet gets access to better food
        >Average Soviet gets access to better healthcare
        >etc etc etc

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >tankie subhuman trash reports the same old fake metodichka
          it's all so tiresome. i with you'd all be beaten to death with a pipe wrench.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            He doesn't know what a pipe wrench is, idk if they developed those yet

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            How am I a tankie if I'm calling what the CIA reported about the Soviet Union a crock of shit?

            Kys vatBlack person.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              He was calling you a tankie for believing an obviously fake piece of Soviet propaganda that was billed as TOTALLY LEGIT CIA PAPERS COMRADE

              But you already knew that, and are just acting moronic

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                moron he put 'FACTS' in meme quotes. He was calling it bullshit. Fricking Christ.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I'm well familiar.
          They took official Party stats, did the bare minimum of fact-checking by comparing with the life of the privileged living in Moscow and then decided this is the "average".

          Healthcare is closer to accurate though, because while the USA had the wealth and personal initiative to innovate on every level, the USSR did have a wider coverage until the Iron Curtain fell and doctors were allowed to choose whether to slave away in a failed state or collect actual wages by working anywhere else.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            USA healthcare was better up until King Black person decided that the government needed to control it all. It got significantly worse since then.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              If you believe insurance companies have the patients best interest in mind you are braindead.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                what a complete non sequitur

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            No, russian healthcare has been horrendeous since forever. Always 50 years behind, drunk surgeons butchering you, no accountability, long waiting lists, expensive corruption to get access to decent doctors and care. The USSR society was based on privileges.
            And it didn’t really got better, I think the largest amount of death in the war in Ukraine occure in overwhelmed russian hospitals right now.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >expensive corruption to get access to decent doctors and care
              As a burger, why call out this specifically? It seems like throwing rocks from a glass house. You hear a lot of shit about life in the USSR, but never “I[Soviet citizen] had to organize a fundraiser / get a second job / sell my possessions because I couldn’t afford my kid’s cancer treatment”

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                kek, you fricking child.
                You bought doctor apointments with ham for the nurse, using your connection with your brother in law in the administration, and 2 bottles of vodka and some cash in a letter for the doctor. Corruption might not be enougth to get the necessary amount of medecine tho, there’s just not enougth stocks. Maybe if you have a friend in Moscow.
                You have no understanding of living in a communist society.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >because I couldn’t afford my kid’s cancer treatment
                maybe because your kid would simply die
                no cancer treatment lol
                you clearly do not understand how rich the west is compared to east and how much money have been spend on R&D in healthcare. Stuff that you can easily do in every hospital in texas sometimes is not available in russia or even poorer EU states.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Eh, I mean judging by the fact that USSR mass-manufactured hemodialysis machines and quick advanced automatic blood analysers, it is quite possible that chemo and radiotherapy was available too

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The USSR in a nutshell: Look! We can send a man in space! No, we can’t make enougth shoes, and they are crap.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >You hear a lot of shit about life in the USSR, but never “I[Soviet citizen] had to organize a fundraiser / get a second job / sell my possessions because I couldn’t afford my kid’s cancer treatment”
                What cancer treatment? They treated cancer in the USSR? News to me...

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              I dunno, dude. I'm Ukrainian, and until fairly recent reform our healthcare system was a just a soviet one, but degradated due to lack of funding. Even down to documents, they had "according to xxxx form approved by Minzdrav of USSR 198x". And it was fairly good. If you're really ill, you could call, and a doctor would come to your home for free. Only things you need to pay for are X-rays(paying for film, like 2$) and dental care(not so cheap, but that's teeth). And it's not even like in Britain where even when you have something urgent, you have to wait for a long time, possibly dying. You broke something? Travmpunkt is a 10min walk away from you and you'll receive help immediately (if there's no queue, then they'd give you painkillers and you'd have to wait). You urgently need surgery? Here it is, for free, but please pay the surgeon, because they are severely underpaid. The only branch I'm angry at is ambulance, fricking lazy homosexuals. But ambulance is free too

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >And it's not even like in Britain where even when you have something urgent, you have to wait for a long time, possibly dying
                Don't talk about shit you don't know anything about. My mother had a breast lump discovered and had it removed in 3 months. From scans to operation. This idea that the UK is 'purely socialist healthcare' is also dumb. You can pay if you want to and get that urgent appointment to have your gout sorted because you're a fat frick. The issue with the UK is minor-but-not-serious problems, not major ones.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Well, I have no first-hand experience, but stories from other people seem to paint a less Ideal picture

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe you’re too young? You didn’t lived in the USSR, just a corrupt society with socialised healthcare, but with access to the global market and foreign medecine production, and free exchanges of medical knowledge and technics.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                That is good, of course, but doesn't do much, when average age of doctors is around 50 in 2010s. And about what foreign medicine production are you talking? Pretty much all necessary drugs, except more exotic stuff is manufactured in Ukraine, and it's what people buy, because it is 2-50 times cheaper that import

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >libs pumped shit into my anus
      At last I truly see. Trumptards and kremlinbots use literally the same reason for everything.

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The USSR spent constant, considerable effort to keep the KGB from government.
    Now that we've had 30 years of KGB government, you know why they did it.

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Dutch disease, adding this since no one else has yet.

  26. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The 90's, basically everything good from Russia got sold off then by the oligarchs and the Russian mob

  27. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Most of it was located in Ukraine.

  28. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Slaves asking for too much money after the USSR collapsed

  29. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Yatchs don't pay for themselves.

  30. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Soviet industry got divided up into multiple countries plus skilled workers brain drained away to higher paying countries in the 90's and 2000's.

    anymore questions that couldve just gotten a google search?

  31. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Same as it always was. Have you seen some of the T-34s that were rolled out during ww2. Often missing parts and they heat treated the steel to such a degree it was super brittle. Lots of soviet crews died due to steel fragments breaking off internally even from non pens.

  32. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Well, you start with a massive MIC focused around making weapons for all the member states of it's "union". Of it's products, some get sold, some get donated, some get used, but the vast majority end up in storage in random stockpiles across it's territory for a world war that never came.
    Now one part of this is of course making weapons to resupply and modernize, but the other is to actually keep experienced people employed and the production lines active just in case. Other MICs have done the same, just look at the US, but the sheer scale of the Soviet production is unmatched. And this also includes producing stuff that was already obsolete and not going to be used anyway, just because they had the tooling and parts in a factory and didn't yet get their turn at receiving the tools for the new models.
    Then the Soviet Union collapses, and a few things happen. First, the big war isn't gonna happen.
    Second, many stockpiles and factories are now in different countries so the supply lines needed to produce the weapons are now fricked up and production slows.
    Third, economic disaster for a long time means that the state isn't gonna spend any money on government subsidized manufacture of unneeded weapons.
    Fourth, everyone around has these giant stockpiles just sitting there. Nobody's going to Russia to buy new manufactured stuff, they either buy straight from their stock or buy from any of the other former members.
    Fifth, by the time the best stuff is sold off, the production lines have been silent for so long that starting them back up would take a massive fortune and workers who have gone on to other things (including death by substance abuse, but that counts too). And now people want new stuff, so you have to make new stuff.
    And that bring us to six, namely that Russia has then spent the rest of time simply welding "new" shit to all the stock they had left lying around. "Modern" Russian equipment is them kitbashing Soviet parts with consumer electronics.

  33. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    USSR collapsed
    everything was privatised
    they embraced neoliberalism

  34. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >when you realize a lot of the production capacities was in Ukraine actually

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