That's what early pilots thought in WWI when they were doing recon. They just waved at the passing enemy, because they didn't think of pilots as part of the battle.
Then someone would throw a brick at you, so you bring a few to throw back next time. Then they throw a grenade, so you bring a pistol. Eventually you end up mounting machine guns on your aircraft.
lol. Also cold war hard sci-fi was fucking amazing.
Time dilating strategic planning is fucking mind bending.
>Detect enemy movement. >That shit happened years/decades ago. >Countermove, troops will not be in position until years later relative >If you're not also experiencing time dilation you never know what happened.
>you're t.grunt. Get sent out to some fuckoff rock to pew pew aliens. By the time you get there everyone you know from home is dead or a greyhair.
>you're t.grunt. Get sent out to some fuckoff rock to pew pew aliens. By the time you get there everyone you know from home is dead or a greyhair.
Also by the time you get there new technological advances happen and the war is long since resolved.
this, its another one of those 'develop the capability and pray the other side isn't stupid enough to escalate' situations
outside of LEO, its entirely possible, but thus more likely to be automated (i.e. 'mission successfully cut comms channels') or economic (i.e. 'mission successfully redirected oxygen shipment'). most likely human intervention would be 'team of highly trained operators dispatched with screwdriver and USB stick' and again focused on disrupting or seizing control of autonomous processes
That's...incredibly badass. You'd have to be built a little different to agree to be flung around at butt-clenching speeds in a vacuum.
>'team of highly trained operators dispatched with screwdriver and USB stick' and again focused on disrupting or seizing control of autonomous processes
Then it turns into crazy "cat and mouse" games. Redundant nearby stations, dummy stations filled with operators, booby traps...The list of potential horrors is immeasurable if you're trying to land on some kind of station or ship in order to hack it, or take it.
"Helldivers" or something like that. Has there been any fiction based on such a concept? Pretty /k/ino to me.
For a few decades maybe. Atmospheric drag will clear out the lower orbitals, and once its relatively safe enough you can launch satellites to start sweeping up using lasers (for larger pieces of debris) or microwaves (for the teeny tiny stuff you can't even see). Depending on the relative position of the debris, this will either decelerate them (forcing them lower where atmospheric drag has a greater effect) or pushing them into a higher orbit (which gradually increases the zone in which satellites can safely occupy)
Would Kessler Syndrome erase decades of economic, scientific, and societal progress almost overnight? Definitely. But it wouldn't lead to some sort of centuries-long Dark Age for spaceflight.
>I literally just heard of Kessler Syndrome for the first time yesterday via some youtuber and now I am an expert in orbital mechanics and wholeheartedly believe that it will take just 1 single damaged satellite to instantly cut off earth from space for a hundred billion years.
What's it like being a fucking retard who out sources their thinking to e celebs?
For there to be space combat, there has to be something worth fighting over up there, and for the next few centuries, it's almost certain that it will always be cheaper to just go somewhere else in the solar system than try to take something someone has already claimed.
>there has to be something worth fighting over up there
All our latest infrastructure has been built to rely on networks of satellites. That's an extremely high value target.
it will be boring submarine shit where it's just a bunch of unmanned ships just cloaking in the dark and then blowing up from a threat they never saw
there will be no dogfights in space
>it will be boring submarine shit
It will be highly interesting submarine shit. The vast distances involved in space travel make it very unlikely you'll come close enough to another vessel to see them. So you don't have to submerge or "engage cloak" like in Star Trek, because every vessel is already cloaked by default. It will be like a navy made up entirely of submarines.
I think it's very, very, very unlikely.
I think any group (country, company etc) that is capable of space military action won't ever actually do it. Basically due to the enormous cost of having space military (or even just economic interests in space) makes you never want to risk it by engaging in the most lethal combat space possible. The same way the US and USSR never went to war with each other, or the same way battleship v battleship combat was so rare.
it will be boring submarine shit where it's just a bunch of unmanned ships just cloaking in the dark and then blowing up from a threat they never saw
there will be no dogfights in space
What the fuck is this submarine shit lol?
You can track literally every defense satellite from within Earth's atmosphere. If you had a combat spacecraft it would be able to spot an energetic satellite or ship on the other side of the solar system.
There is absolutely no hiding. The vast distances don't provide cover at all.
As soon as you poke your head above cover (aka leave the fucking surface of any rock) you will be spotted, you will be tracked, your trajectory will be calculated and you will be chased by a missile guaranteed more maneuverable and faster than you (because it will be effectively the same as your space ship minus your fat ass)
So, back in the ancient days, warfare was primarily based around raiding and sieges. Pitched battles were rare but they did happen, usually due to limited perspective and battlefield intelligence. They true "goal" overall of most standing armies however, was to take cities (usually the political capital of another nation-state).
The goal of space warfare would be similar in regards to planets, albeit with different concerns. It's frighteningly simple and easy to destroy a planet from space but, you also want that planet for its resources. So, you'll have to invade. This means putting as many men in boats as you can muster, and drop them on said planet. Your opponent will have the logical "home-field" advantages of owning an entire planet ant its industry. Planet-based anti-space weaponry is a given, along with atmospheric interceptors, drones, and WMDs. And that's to say nothing of any space based weaponry orbiting the planet, such as carriers with swarms of drone fighters, nuke/laser/ballistic/rail boats, etc
As an invader of a planet, you basically have no choice but to walk into it. Stealth, planning, intelligence, logistics, and many other factors would be in play but, full-scale "space battle" invasions could happen once a century if space travel/logistics became as robust as sea/air travel on Earth.
>Destroy enemy assets in space. >Then drop rocks on anything that could threaten you from the ground. >Park in Low Orbit. >Issue set of demands to planet. >Every time they aren't met, destroy a city at random. >Locals police themselves to avoid death by space rocks. >The only "boots on the ground" will be the guys you send to collect tribute >Only possible threat to you is that they build a big ol' rocket in secret, and if you can't detect them from orbit, you don't deserve to rule space >Even then, stick thrusters on a whole bunch of space rocks, orbit them around the planet at a wide range of altitudes, and control them via a dead man's switch. >Good luck secretly building enough rockets to destroy them all at the same time.
>planet fires ground-to-space missiles at your space assets >you lose a gazillion space bucks every time they hit you, but they only cost a million space bucks to launch >after a few decades of economic drain with zero tangible gains (and too many of your boys going home in a space coffin) you go back to your own planet. You'll claim that "you didn't lose, you just left", but we all know the truth
There already is combat in space.
ICBM warfare
Satellite manuevering and sabotage
Satellite capture
ground to space laser attacks on satellite sensors
Early warning systems
multi role space planes
kill vehicles
etc etc
Nobody here is taking into account space stations, whether commercial or government/research, being captured by space terrorists. I wish Boundary didn’t flop, that game was awesome.
>captured by terrorists
wont be a thing for a long time. current forms of conflict
There already is combat in space.
ICBM warfare
Satellite manuevering and sabotage
Satellite capture
ground to space laser attacks on satellite sensors
Early warning systems
multi role space planes
kill vehicles
etc etc
Anti-satellite satellites will probably get used in WW3.
Does that count?
yes but to 99% of people it only counts if there are humans dogfighting in space
the closest thing people alive now will probably witness to space combat will be astronauts taking potshots at one another from their own spacecraft
Immediately pictured Buzz leaning out of the apolo capsule to plink away at sputnik with a garand.
That's what early pilots thought in WWI when they were doing recon. They just waved at the passing enemy, because they didn't think of pilots as part of the battle.
Then someone would throw a brick at you, so you bring a few to throw back next time. Then they throw a grenade, so you bring a pistol. Eventually you end up mounting machine guns on your aircraft.
yes, but it will be gay and automated
Reminds me of The Forever War on both counts.
lol. Also cold war hard sci-fi was fucking amazing.
Time dilating strategic planning is fucking mind bending.
>Detect enemy movement.
>That shit happened years/decades ago.
>Countermove, troops will not be in position until years later relative
>If you're not also experiencing time dilation you never know what happened.
>you're t.grunt. Get sent out to some fuckoff rock to pew pew aliens. By the time you get there everyone you know from home is dead or a greyhair.
>you're t.grunt. Get sent out to some fuckoff rock to pew pew aliens. By the time you get there everyone you know from home is dead or a greyhair.
Also by the time you get there new technological advances happen and the war is long since resolved.
I suspect most war in the future will be automated and thus gay.
Once
After that people may be unable to ever put objects in safely into space again
this, its another one of those 'develop the capability and pray the other side isn't stupid enough to escalate' situations
outside of LEO, its entirely possible, but thus more likely to be automated (i.e. 'mission successfully cut comms channels') or economic (i.e. 'mission successfully redirected oxygen shipment'). most likely human intervention would be 'team of highly trained operators dispatched with screwdriver and USB stick' and again focused on disrupting or seizing control of autonomous processes
That's...incredibly badass. You'd have to be built a little different to agree to be flung around at butt-clenching speeds in a vacuum.
>'team of highly trained operators dispatched with screwdriver and USB stick' and again focused on disrupting or seizing control of autonomous processes
Then it turns into crazy "cat and mouse" games. Redundant nearby stations, dummy stations filled with operators, booby traps...The list of potential horrors is immeasurable if you're trying to land on some kind of station or ship in order to hack it, or take it.
"Helldivers" or something like that. Has there been any fiction based on such a concept? Pretty /k/ino to me.
For a few decades maybe. Atmospheric drag will clear out the lower orbitals, and once its relatively safe enough you can launch satellites to start sweeping up using lasers (for larger pieces of debris) or microwaves (for the teeny tiny stuff you can't even see). Depending on the relative position of the debris, this will either decelerate them (forcing them lower where atmospheric drag has a greater effect) or pushing them into a higher orbit (which gradually increases the zone in which satellites can safely occupy)
Would Kessler Syndrome erase decades of economic, scientific, and societal progress almost overnight? Definitely. But it wouldn't lead to some sort of centuries-long Dark Age for spaceflight.
>muh "it's impossible to clean up space junk"
>muh defeatism
You lack vision
you lack knowledge of physics
You lack a really big magnet
>t. got their training fleet stuck a billion years from home
>I literally just heard of Kessler Syndrome for the first time yesterday via some youtuber and now I am an expert in orbital mechanics and wholeheartedly believe that it will take just 1 single damaged satellite to instantly cut off earth from space for a hundred billion years.
What's it like being a fucking retard who out sources their thinking to e celebs?
It's going to be some drone nightmare where the aiming is calculated by an infallible AI.
Railguns would be hitting stationary targets as far as the Moon and lasers could track objects even farther away.
That's what electronic countermeasures are for. The infallible AI fire control system can't hit you if it's aiming for the wrong spot.
Yes, and it will be kino
we already have
I pray I will get to witness some space action
Probably not.
For there to be space combat, there has to be something worth fighting over up there, and for the next few centuries, it's almost certain that it will always be cheaper to just go somewhere else in the solar system than try to take something someone has already claimed.
>there has to be something worth fighting over up there
All our latest infrastructure has been built to rely on networks of satellites. That's an extremely high value target.
>it will be boring submarine shit
It will be highly interesting submarine shit. The vast distances involved in space travel make it very unlikely you'll come close enough to another vessel to see them. So you don't have to submerge or "engage cloak" like in Star Trek, because every vessel is already cloaked by default. It will be like a navy made up entirely of submarines.
I thought you can't hide something in space.
I think it's very, very, very unlikely.
I think any group (country, company etc) that is capable of space military action won't ever actually do it. Basically due to the enormous cost of having space military (or even just economic interests in space) makes you never want to risk it by engaging in the most lethal combat space possible. The same way the US and USSR never went to war with each other, or the same way battleship v battleship combat was so rare.
What the fuck is this submarine shit lol?
You can track literally every defense satellite from within Earth's atmosphere. If you had a combat spacecraft it would be able to spot an energetic satellite or ship on the other side of the solar system.
There is absolutely no hiding. The vast distances don't provide cover at all.
As soon as you poke your head above cover (aka leave the fucking surface of any rock) you will be spotted, you will be tracked, your trajectory will be calculated and you will be chased by a missile guaranteed more maneuverable and faster than you (because it will be effectively the same as your space ship minus your fat ass)
it will be boring submarine shit where it's just a bunch of unmanned ships just cloaking in the dark and then blowing up from a threat they never saw
there will be no dogfights in space
Yes, there will be. Hear me out.
So, back in the ancient days, warfare was primarily based around raiding and sieges. Pitched battles were rare but they did happen, usually due to limited perspective and battlefield intelligence. They true "goal" overall of most standing armies however, was to take cities (usually the political capital of another nation-state).
The goal of space warfare would be similar in regards to planets, albeit with different concerns. It's frighteningly simple and easy to destroy a planet from space but, you also want that planet for its resources. So, you'll have to invade. This means putting as many men in boats as you can muster, and drop them on said planet. Your opponent will have the logical "home-field" advantages of owning an entire planet ant its industry. Planet-based anti-space weaponry is a given, along with atmospheric interceptors, drones, and WMDs. And that's to say nothing of any space based weaponry orbiting the planet, such as carriers with swarms of drone fighters, nuke/laser/ballistic/rail boats, etc
As an invader of a planet, you basically have no choice but to walk into it. Stealth, planning, intelligence, logistics, and many other factors would be in play but, full-scale "space battle" invasions could happen once a century if space travel/logistics became as robust as sea/air travel on Earth.
They'd be the stuff of military legend.
>Destroy enemy assets in space.
>Then drop rocks on anything that could threaten you from the ground.
>Park in Low Orbit.
>Issue set of demands to planet.
>Every time they aren't met, destroy a city at random.
>Locals police themselves to avoid death by space rocks.
>The only "boots on the ground" will be the guys you send to collect tribute
>Only possible threat to you is that they build a big ol' rocket in secret, and if you can't detect them from orbit, you don't deserve to rule space
>Even then, stick thrusters on a whole bunch of space rocks, orbit them around the planet at a wide range of altitudes, and control them via a dead man's switch.
>Good luck secretly building enough rockets to destroy them all at the same time.
>planet fires ground-to-space missiles at your space assets
>you lose a gazillion space bucks every time they hit you, but they only cost a million space bucks to launch
>after a few decades of economic drain with zero tangible gains (and too many of your boys going home in a space coffin) you go back to your own planet. You'll claim that "you didn't lose, you just left", but we all know the truth
>Good luck secretly building enough rockets to destroy them all at the same time
Why do you think this would be hard? It's an entire planet, and they can build the GtS-missiles indoors or underground
>in space
>has wings
One can dream
You won't see it, space combat will be BVR on steroids
Using kinetics in space is a loose-loose situation. We might see "parasite boosters" that can deorbit enemy stellites though. Cyber warfare is obvious
I will. You won't.
Yes but not soon. We just don't have enough assets in space to make it worthwhile.
>Muh Kessler syndrome
>Muh nuclear winter
Pussies. How bad could it REALLY be?
we just did
There already is combat in space.
ICBM warfare
Satellite manuevering and sabotage
Satellite capture
ground to space laser attacks on satellite sensors
Early warning systems
multi role space planes
kill vehicles
etc etc
As soon as we have a colony anywhere not earth people will start pirating in space.
Nah, we gave up the stars for an eternity of babysitting naggers instead.
Nobody here is taking into account space stations, whether commercial or government/research, being captured by space terrorists. I wish Boundary didn’t flop, that game was awesome.
>captured by terrorists
wont be a thing for a long time. current forms of conflict
are more relevant