Why were the Japanese so retarded in WW2?

Why were the Japanese so moronic in WW2?

They would have had a much better chance of making it so costly for the US that they give up if they had any conception of force preservation and didn't literally kill themselves every chance they got.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Propaganda. They were told that surrender meant torture, rape, and unimaginable horrors at the hands of Americans. So they were more willing to do these suicide missions

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >unimaginable horrors at the hands of Americans.
      which was true and not propaganda, its just that some Japanese and Germans were well treated for the photos and the cameras to keep up the deceptive USA propaganda machine as the good guys going.

      Enjoy massive nuclear bombardment and total annihilation americans.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        ESL foreigners always say "USA", never "the US", "America", or even "the USA". I don't get it.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          russians struggle with english articles

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >russians
            It's basically all europeans who do this

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              In my european language your country is usually referred to as "USA". In the past people mostly called it "Amerika", but that went out of fashion when we realized how inaccurate it was.
              We don't really have a native translation of "the US" that makes sense.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Which is exactly how ESLs get outed
                "The USA" is the correct grammatical form in English

                When and why did the internet get obsessed with "ESL"? The term wasn't used much just a couple years ago.

                when hating Americans became especially trendy, around the time of THE Election and both sides of the American political spectrum began attempting to outdo each other in public spectacles of moronity
                >non-burger

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >We don't really have a native translation of "the US" that makes sense.
                You don't say vereinigte Staaten or whatever's equivalent in your language?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >or even "the USA"
          You wanted him to write "keep up the deceptive the USA propaganda machine"?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Don't be dense. The natural thing to do in that sentence would be to put "US" versus "USA."

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Ignore troll posts, season well, and scroll on. It's bad enough this shit-tier slide thread hasn't been insta-deleted. Yet.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Because america is a continent you dumb mutt

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            found the Brazilian

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            it’s literally not
            there’s North America and South America
            also you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the English language evolves
            America didn’t always refer to the USA, but overtime it has popularly taken that meaning
            such as how “ass” didn’t always refer to a persons butt, or an arrogant imbecile, yet we all accept that it can refer to the butt, a donkey, or (You)

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Yes, it evolves, and now that we are in the internet age we will correct it back to america meaning the continent, not the USA.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            brown hands alert, brown hands alert
            Poo in the loo?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            It's in the name. United States of America.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Who gives a shit?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          because the bags of flour or rice donated by America say "Gift of USA" and it makes them seethe so hard they never forget.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Stop correcting them. It's a useful tell.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          When and why did the internet get obsessed with "ESL"? The term wasn't used much just a couple years ago.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >When and why did the internet get obsessed with "ESL"?
            you can tell whos a paid shill here because they brought it with them from the outside world

            they should go back out

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            There were fewer ESLs on this board, so it wasn't as much of a problem.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              only people using "ESL" in lieu of argument are the ones already arguing in bad faith, they're the subhuman shills

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I disagree.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            People started notice that the loudest shitposters were clearly from non-english speaking (specifically third world) countries. Some of them are paid shills, but I personally think a lot of them do it for free, out pure seethe.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              stop being moronic, the worst bad faith arguments are the ones that use "ESL" in lieu of argument

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          people forget to clarify which united states of America they are referring to.
          there is also "these united states" vs "the united states"

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            both work but these united states is an older term while the united states is the more common one

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        moron

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Asian "yes man" culture. Don't question your superiors, just mindlessly obey orders.

      These are both wrong. It was indoctrination from early ages; most Japanese boys went to military-style schools and were inured to authority and institutional violence, and also with a passionate conception of loyalty to country and honor above all things.
      The lies they were told were that they were winning, and that the kamikaze attacks would rout the US navy.
      Same with the soldiers, they were sometimes ordered to retreat off of islands and refused to go out of duty and patriotism

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      A lack of ammo and supplies combined with

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It wasn't propaganda. Americans were brutal racists at the time and regularly scalped Japanese POWs.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        That didn't happen, but it should have, and will happen again.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Yep, and we made lampshades and soap out of them too!

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      life dont matter if you have no home to return to yo

      also this, solders get brutalised by the training regime

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Kamikaze wasn’t moronic considering the resources Japan had at the time. It’s like saying 9/11 was moronic because Al Qaeda didn’t launch a cruise missile at the twin towers.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Asian "yes man" culture. Don't question your superiors, just mindlessly obey orders.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Asian "yes man" culture.
      You're talking about a country where officers routinely murdered those of other branches and civilians occasionally rioted if they felt the government wasn't killing enough chinks.
      Interwar Japan was about as far from a 'Yes Man' culture as you can be while still having a country. Any more flagrant disregard for orders and civil disobedience, and you're in an anarchist commune.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    “Banzai Charges” actually had a fairly good success rate in China and were responsible for some big routs, problem is didn’t work so well against Americans. But even then they were usually carried out as a last ditch effort and a lot of Commanders forbid them explicitly.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      This.

      When Japan was just involved in the war with China a Banzai Charge was terrifying to Chinese combatants who were less trained, poorly led, using older less effective weapons (and very few machine guns).

      On the other hand... U.S. soldiers in WWII were much better trained, far better led, and had more machine guns, and semi-automatic 8 shot M1's (once the U.S. was on the offensive)

      I can absolutely understand a poor Chinese soldiers point of view when Japanese troops attacked en-masse they can get off a few shots, maybe even a whole magazine maybe but good luck reloading in time before people left and right of you start to flee.

      A U.S. soldier has a machinegun nearby, probably a BAR is closeish too, he has an 8 shot semi auto weapon and he knows the guys on either side of him are stay right there and fight as hard as they can with him.

      It's a much different equation.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >moron tactic that only works against a hopelessly outmatched opponent
      >Use it anyway against an enemy that is not hopelessly outmatched

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Japan in WW2 in a nutshell

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Banzai charges where completely made pointless by the presence of a lot of Thompson sub machine guns.
      The Japanese used no sub machine guns (nor semi automatic weapons) just large field machine guns.
      At times the Japanese officers managed by using mortars or other means to destroy the american field machine guns and ordered a Banzai charge to rout them only to be cut down by mixed fire from Thompsons and garlands.
      The US squad firepower was about 2 to 3 times the firepower of the same Japanese squad.
      Just the amount of lead the americans could put down range far surpassed what the Japanese could do

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >The Japanese used no sub machine guns
        They used the Type 100, but it fairly small numbers

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          don't quibble; 10,000 units in an army of a few million is utterly insignificant, not "fairly small"

          It wasn't propaganda. Americans were brutal racists at the time and regularly scalped Japanese POWs.

          >t. Colonel Q. J. Tarantino

          >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant
          Lol no. Japan fell into the same trap as Italy, they were so prepared for a 1930s war they weren't prepared for a 1940s war. Bad heavy bombers, outdated doctrine, outdated divisional structure, lack of smgs and machine guns, almost no tanks/mechanization, outdated production methods, outdated/nonexistent damage control, mismatched railroad logistics, lack of radar, etc. The lessons they learned against Russia in 1905 and China in the 30s were great at beating up 2nd rate powers but nowhere near enough to beat an actual competitor. By the time they started updating doctrine and planning medium tank divisions after Khalkhin Gol it was much too late.
          >Taking the mainland and most of SEA was child's play
          Not really an achievement when you see what they were up against. China was a disunited mess controlled by literal warlords, and they couldn't even handle that. Korea was a feudal shit hole while french indo-china and the dutch east indies were being protected by the fricking z-team. They overran the Philippines easily but couldn't maintain control in the face of the US/flip resistance. British mayala was about the only impressive victory.

          >British mayala was about the only impressive victory
          It's not even that impressive; 3.5 divisions of the Jap elite with ample naval and air support vs 1 colonial garrison and 3 under-trained, under-equipped divisions

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I think the main reason banzai charges didn't work against Americans is that back then the average American was like... a foot taller than the average Japanese, maybe more. It's hard to be afraid of a bunch of scrawny manlets.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Banzai charges didn't work against anybody other than dogshit poor chinks or colonials armed with only bolt-action rifles

          even when they did succeed in overrunning front-line Allied units, it was usually at the expense of heavy casualties; such as a British platoon that actually ran out of ammo piling Japs in front of its position and then got bayoneted

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    spent three years in a POW camp, forced to subsist on a thin stew made of fish, vegetables, prawns, coconut milk, and four kinds of rice

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I just can't get the spices right!

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Also think meth played a role.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    bugman mentality

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >your emperor is a literal demigod and patrilineal descendant of the fricking sun
    >to give one's life for him is one of the greatest honors imaginable
    >he'll even pay homage to you twice a year at the Yasukuni shrine: the only shrine deifying common men that he'd pay his respects to
    I assume a combation of that, delusions of "muh yamato spirit", and amphetamines

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Because Japan was a psuedo-feudal hermit state for like 200 years and deliberately rejected the ideological & technological progress that was being made in the rest of the world. When they finally had some sense slapped into them they only had around 80 years to sort their shit out and catch up to the west, resulting in them still believing in all kinds of moronic nonsense like
      It's a miracle that they even managed to get themselves into a state where they could fight powers as large as the U.S and China.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >into a state where they could fight powers as large as the U.S and China.
        Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant. Taking the mainland and most of SEA was child's play, and militarily, at least on paper, the US was absolutely pitiful in comparison.
        they weren't playing catch-up, they were winning, and by a wide margin, until hostilities commenced in Hawaii and they found out why the US had a reputation for fast money and fast moving.
        Japanese institutional culture ultimately doomed the Empire but it had a lot more to do with bad timing than it did with any lack of military might, because there wasn't any

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant.
          By what metric?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            IDK pick one- physics, metallurgy, chemistry, industrial machinery, boats, planes trains?
            The japs invented TV, cell phones and dry catteries during Meiji, those are a few that stick out?
            "technogeek meganerd Nip" was a stereotype based in reality, as was "superautismo mad scientist German engineer"

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >The japs invented TV, cell phones and dry catteries during Meiji, those are a few that stick out?
              You could actually spend 5 minutes reading and realize its not that simple.

              >By what metric?
              Japan was one of the countries with a nuclear weapons project

              Several countries had a program why was this one special enough to make it >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant.

              https://i.imgur.com/Lv6iup9.jpg

              Their aircraft were second to none before January 1943. The Zero is a fricking legendary aircraft for a reason. 20mm cannons, lightweight so it can turn on a dime, and a high speed engine that put it a cut above its Pacific competition like TBFs.
              Germany and Japan's main failing point was industrial scale and bombings.

              Dambusters genuinely crippled a double digit percent of Hermanys industrial output, and constant enemy bombing raids on your civilians and work force were what did the Axis in.
              Midway as well isn't talked about as much as rifles and tanks because there aren't many video games about it that dipshit turd colored zoomerBlack folk have played.
              After Midway the IJN was praying hourly for a pitched naval battle to help take back the initiative and even the field.
              But Americans bet on that if they Island hopped and continued avoiding major naval battles, they could quickly whittle down the IJN and jap Air power with their quickly advancing in quality air craft.
              Before Midway the Pacific waters were not American dominated, afterwards however it was a rising wave of American steel laying down destroyers and submarines after another onto the already plateaued Japanese arms and armor production.

              Just like their famous heavy bombers? Zero was great its not a good indicator of overall.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant.
                IJN Yamato was the largest machine ever built by man

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                and they were planning to build even bigger one! with largest guns ever! 20.1 inch, 510 mm guns

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                largest machine to ever be sunk by man too i guess?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Tennōheika Banzai

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                that'd be the USS America, scuttled off the coast of North Carolina

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I think he means "built" as in "built up to that point", there are modern ships that beat yamato in tonnage several times over

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                meant sunk and as in "sunk up to that point"

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Shinano was bigger, but was built from a Yamato class hull.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The Yamato isn't even the largest ship that the Japanese have ever built, much less the largest machine ever built by man, and it also got sunk.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >isn't
                was, and they call me ESL..

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I guess for the time it >was the largest machine ever built by man, you are correct, my bad. Not really sure that matters much though in context considering how it went out.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                If size of the largest ship produced is the way we define how technologically advanced a country was, how was it behind Germany?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Germany had to win the continental war first before it could concentrate on building a navy to match the US and UK, the build-up would take decades

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                So they were a few decades behind Japan?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Germans did have their own super-heavy battleship project pipe dream
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-class_battleship_proposals#H-42_through_H-44

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                mein gott im himmel

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                And it's namesake knew it didn't matter and that carriers were far more important and valuable,

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                What was its namesake?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yamato is a province, as it Musashi and most(all?) IJN battleships. You are thinking of Yamamoto, similar, but different.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >By what metric?
            Japan was one of the countries with a nuclear weapons project

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Their aircraft were second to none before January 1943. The Zero is a fricking legendary aircraft for a reason. 20mm cannons, lightweight so it can turn on a dime, and a high speed engine that put it a cut above its Pacific competition like TBFs.
            Germany and Japan's main failing point was industrial scale and bombings.

            Dambusters genuinely crippled a double digit percent of Hermanys industrial output, and constant enemy bombing raids on your civilians and work force were what did the Axis in.
            Midway as well isn't talked about as much as rifles and tanks because there aren't many video games about it that dipshit turd colored zoomerBlack folk have played.
            After Midway the IJN was praying hourly for a pitched naval battle to help take back the initiative and even the field.
            But Americans bet on that if they Island hopped and continued avoiding major naval battles, they could quickly whittle down the IJN and jap Air power with their quickly advancing in quality air craft.
            Before Midway the Pacific waters were not American dominated, afterwards however it was a rising wave of American steel laying down destroyers and submarines after another onto the already plateaued Japanese arms and armor production.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              The Zero was shit compared to all the late war IJA fighters that were hobbled by having their industry turned into rubble. Nakajima consistently had better fighters with Imperial Japanese limitations.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Their aircraft were second to none before January 1943.
              lol
              lmao even
              Japanese aircraft were staggeringly flammable in addition to tending to be underarmed, the A6M being the sole exception.
              Japanese land-based fighters actually did become competitive in 1944, but before then, they were trash.
              Japan was basically a bigger Italy.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                The Ki-43 scored more kills than any other Japanese type, the armament was fine

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Their aircraft were second to none before January 1943
              Nope; they just had different pros and cons
              >the Zero
              was highly manoeuvreable, yes, but poorly protected compared to Allied aircraft in 1941; somewhat a sidegrade
              >After Midway
              >continued avoiding major naval battles
              there was nothing left to avoid, anon; Midway destroyed 2/3rds of the Jap fleet carrier force

              the rest was mopping up their escort carriers

              >Their aircraft were second to none before January 1943.
              lol
              lmao even
              Japanese aircraft were staggeringly flammable in addition to tending to be underarmed, the A6M being the sole exception.
              Japanese land-based fighters actually did become competitive in 1944, but before then, they were trash.
              Japan was basically a bigger Italy.

              >tending to be underarmed
              Armament was okay but Jap pilots had very little ammo discipline

              It's a bloody miracle than in less than 50 years after Perry kicked down their door they were in a position to bloody Russia's nose. It's like if the Aztecs managed to survive Cortes and 100 years later they were invading Europe

              Japan didn't cross the fricking Atlantic to fight Russia tho

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >the rest was mopping up their escort carriers
                Shokaku and Zuikaku were both fleet carriers and larger than the jap carriers sunk at Midway IIRC

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, they were the surviving 1/3rd as I said
                They had a slightly larger air wing but not by much

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Ah i must’ve misread a bit.
                My bad.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >Germany and Japan's main failing point was industrial scale and bombings.
              Their main failing point was lack of the oil.
              WWII was war of the motors and oil is what makes these motors run. Axis were absolutely mogged by Allies oil production. Allie could spam vehicles without care. Axis couldn't.

              If anything Germany and Japan punched much higher above their weight class considering shitty hand they were dealt.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                WW2 like WW1 before was mainly about the XIXth century losers and latecomers trying and failing to stop a future anglo-american/russian/chinese hegemony.
                Germany and Japan were doomed to become second rate powers once Russia and China got their shit together, and they knew it. It was now or never for them.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >once Russia and China got their shit together,
                >Russia
                >getting anything together
                One of these things is not like the other kek

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant
          Lol no. Japan fell into the same trap as Italy, they were so prepared for a 1930s war they weren't prepared for a 1940s war. Bad heavy bombers, outdated doctrine, outdated divisional structure, lack of smgs and machine guns, almost no tanks/mechanization, outdated production methods, outdated/nonexistent damage control, mismatched railroad logistics, lack of radar, etc. The lessons they learned against Russia in 1905 and China in the 30s were great at beating up 2nd rate powers but nowhere near enough to beat an actual competitor. By the time they started updating doctrine and planning medium tank divisions after Khalkhin Gol it was much too late.
          >Taking the mainland and most of SEA was child's play
          Not really an achievement when you see what they were up against. China was a disunited mess controlled by literal warlords, and they couldn't even handle that. Korea was a feudal shit hole while french indo-china and the dutch east indies were being protected by the fricking z-team. They overran the Philippines easily but couldn't maintain control in the face of the US/flip resistance. British mayala was about the only impressive victory.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Japan was the most technologically advanced industrial power in the world next to Germant
          absolute nonsense.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It's a bloody miracle than in less than 50 years after Perry kicked down their door they were in a position to bloody Russia's nose. It's like if the Aztecs managed to survive Cortes and 100 years later they were invading Europe

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >the Aztecs managed to survive Cortes
          Oh boy do I have some news for you
          Anyway the Japanese were far more sophisticated than the Aztecs even at their peak, Japan was never technically deficient or at a loss for resources, the fact that they skilled up qas simply because they decided to do so, they could have done it during Sakoku but simply chose not to.
          Remember Japan is one of the only if not the only society European explorers and traders came to that was an equal status power.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        > deliberately rejected the ideological & technological progress that was being made in the rest of the world. When they finally had some sense slapped into them they only had around 80 years to sort their shit out and catch up to the west,
        If all goes to plan they’ll have blm rallies still this decade
        >I L0V3 Pr0Gr3Ss Y3S

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      'Grab them by the belt' before 'Grab them by the belt'. The approach was even more relevant then with their bolt actions and USN artillery floating offshore.

      Take not wanting to pussy out on your bros to the Nth level, and you have an idea of Japanese propriety esprit de corps. That and you had a bunch of veterans of feral, barbaric COIN in China for decades where being captured really did entail being tortured to death.

      “Banzai Charges” actually had a fairly good success rate in China and were responsible for some big routs, problem is didn’t work so well against Americans. But even then they were usually carried out as a last ditch effort and a lot of Commanders forbid them explicitly.

      >problem is didn’t work so well against Americans
      They never should've been attempted in daylight, and had they restricted themselves to night attempts like their doctrine emphasized, it might have played to their strengths.

      Do you understand how insanely costly the Japanese made it for the US?
      We literally had to nuke their cities to make them stop.
      Aside from the Native Americans the Japanese were the worst, most stubborn and most ruthless enemies the US ever faced in battle and the Pacific campaign was 3x the size of the European theater

      >We literally had to nuke their cities to make them stop.
      Canard. They were suing for peace for nearly a year, towards the end having the sole conditions being immunity for the Emperor and no occupation. FDR was handled by two Soviet agents (Hopkins & White), with the rest of the fricking government infested so badly that they got spies into the Manhattan project. All thanks to the UK fortifying his last election via the Republican primaries to sneak in wet rag Wendel Wilkie, picrel. Free mason freak Truman dropped them out of spite (on the anniversary of Masonic expulsion from the Empire) AND to garantee zero leverage to prevent the partition of Europe. Naive and stupid progressives in the US made a deal with the devil to neuter European colonial squabbles permanently, and we've paid the geopolitical price ever since (re: Ukraine, Taiwan).

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >hey just let us keep the government that started this mess
        No.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Canard
        Pills, Alice.
        Now.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Take not wanting to pussy out on your bros to the Nth level

        That was literally the US marines and soldiers fighting to the death after the Japs proved themselves to be the savage Black folk that they are and unlike the Japs, they actually won

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >They were suing for peace for nearly a year
        Yeah and Russia definitely wants peace in Ukraine. I hate weebs pretending Japan was just a poor little b***h being picked on. Their entire plan was to bloody the USA's nose and sue for 'peace' that included free oil and the territory it had stolen in SEA. They were dumb and thought the Us would roll over like Russia or China did.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >>We literally had to nuke their cities to make them stop.
        >Canard. They were suing for peace for nearly a year, towards the end having the sole conditions being immunity for the Emperor and no occupation. FDR was handled by two Soviet agents (Hopkins & White), with the rest of the fricking government infested so badly that they got spies into the Manhattan project. All thanks to the UK fortifying his last election via the Republican primaries to sneak in wet rag Wendel Wilkie, picrel. Free mason freak Truman dropped them out of spite (on the anniversary of Masonic expulsion from the Empire) AND to garantee zero leverage to prevent the partition of Europe. Naive and stupid progressives in the US made a deal with the devil to neuter European colonial squabbles permanently, and we've paid the geopolitical price ever since (re: Ukraine, Taiwan).

        interesting schizoposting
        any vids explaining this?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous
      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        lol
        they were suing for peace because we had done the rough equivalent of nuking them already when we FIREbombed several major population centers that were made of wood and paper.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      sounds based tbqh

      better than any one else's reasons to fight at least

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It wasn't just the banzai charges but the fact that the army and navy apparently hated each other's guts and refused to communicate and cooperate with each other. Commanders would also ignore orders from the mainland and do what they wanted. The Japanese military force in ww2 was a mess by modern western standards.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It's worth noting they hated each other so much the Navy had a land Army and the Army had a Navy. Most of the forces encountered throughout the US fighting were actually IJN troops as the Army was mostly tied up in the west and north. That's not to say we never fought the army but that stuff like Iwo Jima where stuff like Guadalcanal and Kwajalein were mostly naval units

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Do you understand how insanely costly the Japanese made it for the US?
    We literally had to nuke their cities to make them stop.
    Aside from the Native Americans the Japanese were the worst, most stubborn and most ruthless enemies the US ever faced in battle and the Pacific campaign was 3x the size of the European theater

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The bulk of their army was fricking around in Korea and Manchuria all while the USSR was steadily encroaching on them, and both the IJA and IJN absolutely hated each other. Once the American war machine got going there really wasn’t much they could do. Island hopping was especially rough for them.

      They didn’t stop the first time because they thought that Hiroshima was another Tokyo firebombing kind of thing, and that Truman was just bluffing about having some mega weapon that could instantly wipe out any area it was detonated. Then Nagasaki instantly disappeared days later, which meant that the US did in fact have such a weapon, they were more than willing to use it, and that they had a decent stockpile of them that the Japanese had absolutely no hope in hell of countering. Thing was all communications from both cities were instantly snuffed out, so it took some time to both get some guys out there to see wtf was going on and to report back to their command.

      They were basically a medieval society that had suddenly and quickly industrialized. I think their behavior makes more sense in that context.

      It really did seem like WW2 era Japan was a constant battle between what Meiji tried to achieve and the last remnants of those feudal families riling up a bunch of bushido larpers.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The Japanese knew what a nuke was but their scientists said that America couldn't build more than one every year, which they decided was acceptable. Nagasaki was important because it showed that their scientists were wrong and America could build them a lot faster.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Do you understand how insanely costly the Japanese made it for the US?
      Do you? US had about 200k casualties in the Pacific. Japan had about 2 million. US lost less than 20k aircraft in the Pacific, of which 15k was due to accidents and equipment breakdown. Japan lost 43k. US was winning in a curbstomp and it wasn't very costly, at least compared to the other war the US was fighting in Europe.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Did you get those stats from the Asspull factory Closeut Sale?
        the US had 400000 casualties in the Pacific, you were 30% more likely to die from it and ground soldiers had 3x the casualties they did in Europe

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          PTO was very dangerous for the servicemen because of disease. The battles though except Iwo Jima and Okinawa were wildly one-sided affairs.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          PTO was very dangerous for the servicemen because of disease. The battles though except Iwo Jima and Okinawa were wildly one-sided affairs.

          what were the respective US KIAs?
          Pacific WIAs can be inflated due to disease, which Allied troops recovered from quickly (was usually terminal for Japs however)

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Pound for pound if you were a US serviceman you had a far higher chance of dying or otherwise becoming a casualty fighting in the Pacific than in the European theater

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They were basically a medieval society that had suddenly and quickly industrialized. I think their behavior makes more sense in that context.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They behaved like a civil nation during the Russo-Japanese war

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They behaved like pieces of shit in China and Korea

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Mistreating colonies was normal for the time.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            the Nips took it into overtime. i honestly thought the Nazis were the ultimate in "banality of evil" and sadistic cruelty until learning about the IJA. They were like actual Sith come to life; unlike the Germans, who rationalized their fricked up shit and swept it under the rug, the Japs *enjoyed and celebrated it* it.
            Its like the entire island chain suddenly went into autismo rage mode and went full Renfield on any other non-Japanese human

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              >They were like actual Sith come to life
              Bait/10

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >Unit 731
                thank me later

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous
              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >mark felton

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                government hates him because he exposes the truth

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Japs are literal subhumans and no matter how long ago these crimes where committed they deserved every single firebomb dropped on their despicable race. To this day they have never owned up to what they have done and never will so I hope the Chicoms get those rat basterds

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                Japs were the natural herrenvolk of the region and as such their crimes are forgiven.
                Same deal as the mongols. Chinks always need a master.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                yeah because they suck American dick now for protection from big bad North Korea

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Population growth by 70% over 35 years
          >GDP increases ninefold
          >multiple Koreans attain the rank of general in the Japanese army, commanding divisions of native Japanese soldiers
          Yeah, Japan was truly terrible for Korea.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Nah, I recall some first person account from Vladivostok or wherever, the japs were murdering and raping there too, it just happened at a smaller scale under less scrutiny, Russians probably figured it's normal, da?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          We do actually have accounts from the Chinese on whose territory the war was mostly fought.
          Some Japs looted and raped.
          Every single Russian looted, raped, killed, and then raped the corpse again.
          They vastly preferred the Japs.

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Strategically, there never was at any time what could be called a 'united Japanese strategy'. Service rivalry between the IJA and IJN literally decided everything, a very large reason why Japan never went to war against the USSR was because the navy would have nothing to do but be a taxi service for the army. That bad.

    In such a hectic and disunited command environment, you add on top extreme patron-clientalism and militarism. The Senpai-Kohai system was so strong, men of a superior rank could not command those who had been their 'senpais'. You also had a system of prestigious military academies, and i n those you had 'special classes' who went instantly into command track. Men from those academies at the class track could literally countermand and ignores orders, sometimes as high as a Major ignorning the orders of a COLONEL.

    Then you add in an absolutely impossible resource situation, and you have the ridiculous spectacle of elite IJA infantry, half starved because the IJN was not properly supplying them, being given suicidal orders by a complete nobody because they went to a slightly better academy then your actual commander. There is more to this, the culture if brutality and bullying in the IJA got extreme post-1937, when there was a breakdown in the NCO system, so to replace it then just had senpai-kohai, and violence. Higher ranks establishing their authority by kicking the shit out of lower ones etc. This in turn lead to more brutality and warcrimes againist civilians and POW's, and more brutual tactics in turn.

    You add to all of the above the feudal militarism of 'no-one gets taken prisoners', mix in about 4.5 years of doing warcrimes in China and you are the tactical decision making space of the IJA that the Americans faced. Totally fricked higher command driven by rivalry, saving face, patron-clientalism and fanatical militarism, a lower system which does value life and doesn't have experience fighting western armies.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/Lv6iup9.jpg

      Their aircraft were second to none before January 1943. The Zero is a fricking legendary aircraft for a reason. 20mm cannons, lightweight so it can turn on a dime, and a high speed engine that put it a cut above its Pacific competition like TBFs.
      Germany and Japan's main failing point was industrial scale and bombings.

      Dambusters genuinely crippled a double digit percent of Hermanys industrial output, and constant enemy bombing raids on your civilians and work force were what did the Axis in.
      Midway as well isn't talked about as much as rifles and tanks because there aren't many video games about it that dipshit turd colored zoomerBlack folk have played.
      After Midway the IJN was praying hourly for a pitched naval battle to help take back the initiative and even the field.
      But Americans bet on that if they Island hopped and continued avoiding major naval battles, they could quickly whittle down the IJN and jap Air power with their quickly advancing in quality air craft.
      Before Midway the Pacific waters were not American dominated, afterwards however it was a rising wave of American steel laying down destroyers and submarines after another onto the already plateaued Japanese arms and armor production.

      All good information. It's kind of interesting to think of what could have been if the IJA and the IJN had had a unified command, they likely could have easily taken Hawaii and had the ability to bottle up the US until they could shore up supply lines, and the Co-Prosperity Sphere would have been a done deal, they would have been a much, much harder foe than the Germans and the end of the war probably would have involved ceding quite a lot of Asia to direct and de facto Japanese control in perpetuity.
      >Australia would have been so screwed kek

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >take Hawaii
        >when they barely were able to sail a surprise and uncontested strike force to it at the absolute edge of their logistical capabilities

        Good plan. They could have dropped off a couple thousand troops to starve every few weeks if the transports somehow manage to survive the trip. It would have done a great job of allowing the US to clean them up easier and end the war faster which ultimately worked out quite well for Japan.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          You have no clue. The japs went to Pearl Harbor because they were bored and had nothing better to do. the combined air and sea force they sent from their back pocket on a Tuesday was 1000% more potent than anything the US had at the time. It was a cakewalk amd only the wierd Jap infighting screwed up any part of it.

          1941 Japan==1992 USA
          1941 USA==1992 Iraq

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I don't understand what's so bad about kamikaze units. At that point, it was the only successful tactic Japan had left. Kamikaze did manage to sink ships and had a great propaganda effect on both the Americans and the Japanese.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >I don't understand what's so bad about kamikaze units.
      they could've asked Germany a production license for Fritz X, a precision guided armor piercing glide bomb, like the one that sunk RN Roma

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >The country that could barely control the quality of bolt action rifles towards the end of the war will suddenly start manufacturing totally new technology.
        Sometimes I wonder about the people on this board

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I guess the bad thing is that they were ever an effective tactic. They worked but were both terribly wasteful, and only needed because Japanese fighters and pilots regressed whilst US AA fire advanced

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        There's a sick logic to the Kamikazes because American AA and CAP were so effective that conventional attacks were actually more costly for the Japanese go achieve the same effect.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Most criticism is over how it was inhuman or some bullshit. There's no doubt it was an effective tactic, as most suicide tactics are.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Ineffective usage of resources, in some cases the "volunteers" were """"volunteers"""" in that if they couldn't slam their plane into a target from a lack of them or a lack of success they would be shot for it.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Ineffective usage of resources
        It was literally the best use of ressources possible considering what Japan had at the time.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They were fighting on islands, you've got no where to go if your fleet is btfo and the island is surrounded by baddies.

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    No more boats by the time Island hopping got real. No chance of resupply or reinforcement or comms and last you heard they weren’t taking prisoners.

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Kamikazes weren't moronic. If, like Japan, you have a bunch of pilots late in the war with only a dozen or so hours of flight time sending them up to fight against the hordes of Hellcats and Corsairs piloted by veterans is a waste. Training them to successfully dive bomb takes more hours that you can't spare and more fuel that you need to stop the American advance. Fresh pilots are dead either way and ramming a ship is comparatively easy, it was a cold calculated decision to try and make the best of a bad situation.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Worth noting that Kamekaze attacks weren't simply a matter of 'RAM PLANE INTO SHIP!'
      The actual kamikaze aircraft were guarded by a number of escort fighters, and the entire attack also used chaff to frick with American fire- and fighter control.
      It was actually pretty sophisticated and resulted in a reduction of Japanese losses.

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Why were the Japanese so moronic in WW2?
    For the exact same reason rightoids are so moronic in contemporary USA. They think that RAH RAH ing hard enough will make them win. They don't care about power, only about their dopamine fix from LARPing as "honorable" or whatever.

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Army and navy hate each other so much they regularly screw each other over, dumping supplies meant for the other, ignoring sensible orders like "don't have a nice day moron", and even starting coups

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      You're an idiot.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      also
      >Imperial government: IJA, do not stir up shit with China
      >IJA: *instigate Marco Polo bridge incident* *enters China against orders*

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous
  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >"we're gonna make it costly for you"
    >"ok we're just gonna drop more bombs"
    stupid idiot they knew it was over. making it more costly wouldn't have done anything. they were committing suicide in a cool way cause they knew it was over.

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The really moronic thing they did was not understanding how democracy works. If they didn't attack pearl harbor and took the east indies they would have still had oil problems but far less than dealing with the US. They believed that they could bop the US and get us to go back to supplying them oil and that war was inevitable anyways. But they turned what would be at most a limited unpopular war into a "just" war that basically every American believed needed to be prosecuted until unconditional surrender to the point that to this day Americans believe dropping the nukes was fully justified.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >that to this day Americans believe dropping the nukes was fully justified
      Because it was. Frick em

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Why did they not set sub pickets off the Us West Coast ports and the western terminus of the Panama Canal?

    That was just stupid.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Because it never occurred to the Japanese to use submarines as commerce raiders. In IJN doctrine, their whole idea of winning the war was winning the DECISIVE BATTLE. So to that end, submarines were mainly used as fleet assets, meant to hunt American capital ships during major naval engagements.

      The Japanese also simply did not have the intelligence gathering capabilities to figure out where Allied convoys were, nor did they have the ability to evade anti-submarine weaponry the US originally developed to fight German U-boats.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Every nation wanted to use submarines as fleet assets. Germany was the only nation entering WWII focused on commerce raiding because they were the only one with experience doing it. Also, the japanese submarine arm was extremely marginalized, they were underfunded and treated poorly because it was an honorless position. They made do with what they had, and while they were misused, they performed very well, hitting and sinking many USN warships.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >sinking many USN warships.
          How many?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Yorktown and Indianapolis. But they scored hits on Enterprise, Saratoga and North Carolina. I assume there are more cruisers and destroyers sunk that I never heard about.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              As far as sinking goes Wasp was the other important one. Beyond that for warships sunk it seems like it was a escort carrier, light cruiser and a few destroyers/destroyer escorts.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          And the smart ones quickly transitioned their subs to interdiction and commerce raiding because that was a FAR better use of their capabilities than babysitting the main fleet everywhere. Sure the IJN sunk a few USN warships, but the USN subs literally sunk their entire merchant fleet by the end of the war.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Because it never occurred to the Japanese to use submarines as commerce raiders.
        More like Japan was aware of its geographic position and knew that commerce raiding was impossible for it.
        It wouldn't routinely reach the US west coast, the expense of oil would've been ridiculous for minimal gain. And even if it could, the US relied primarily on domestic resources and railways.
        Interrupting shipping on India's east coast would likewise do dickall.
        Australia? What for, it had barely any industry worth interdicting, and could feed itself.
        Germany went hard into commerce raiding because Britain was RIGHT THERE, imported 70% of its food, and its industry relied heavily on importing from the US. Germany actually could give it a try.
        Japan couldn't.
        Japan trying to commerce raid a handful of ships across the pacific or a few pajeet boats of India would've been the peak moron move.

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >much better chance
    Says who? Most Japanese troops we fought were half starved, poorly starved and cut off from any aid. What exactly could they have done that they weren't already doing? You act like they attempted nothing but human wave tactics the whole war.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      poorly supplied*

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The Japanese government had to fight their own people to force a peace. It was literally their culture.

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The Truth is that the whole Meji Restoration was a partial lie. Japan was under control of a pseudo-shogunate under the control of the military whom kept the ideals of war from the shogunate era alive into the 20th century. They also heavily underestimated Americans resolve due to them trying to equate American/western culture into their own, which they thought that a decisive and overwhelming surprise attack would force America to respect them, when in reality it just pissed them off.

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Why were the Japanese so moronic in WW2?
    They had a system that rewarded insubordination and punished complacency, with intense rivalries and egos making important decisions on vanity.

  26. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Why were the Japanese so moronic in WW2?
    Because once they saw big American penis it make bug man go crazyyyy they forget how to fight war

  27. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The Axis alliance was subverted, the same trickery Russians use to this day.

  28. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese brutality is probably the same shit as Nazi brutality/holohoax horse shit/aka babies on bayonets

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The japs were so bad that infamously the fricking nazi party member and de-facto german ambassador in Nanking became an Oskar Schindler figure and has a statue today in the city:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Jap atrocities: on a level that makes Nazis look like Oskar Schindler

  29. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese had great troop tactics. They absolutely btfo the British and the Americans in the early stages.
    Yes, those were shitty garrisons and second rate troops but all the same, to win with minimal investment with opposed landings through smart use of troops and combined arms is the way to go.

    Actually defending cut off islands against massive forces of marines with navy and air support is a suicide mission and you will 100% lose as the enemy commits his force.
    If the battle of savo island went a bit differently then maybe shit could've changed for a single battle for example, but the island campaign was always dependent on navy and there wasn't any at a certain point

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The japs losing Henderson Field and then over committing to Guadalcanal is what really did them in because of how little resources they had. They could not keep the gains they took because they only had so many resources.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >had great troop tactics
      No, they didn't. They were good at individual soldiering skills (very important), night infiltration and encirclement but that was about it. They had dogshit artillery, dogshit CAS, and obviously dogshit logistics

      >to win with minimal investment with opposed landings
      The landings weren't opposed. Malaya is a peninsula full of beaches, they used Thailand as an entry point, and the defenders didn't have their own divisional artillery let alone coastal guns. There was no time to build pillboxes, it wasn't anything like D-day and anyway half the Jap navy was there to provide gunfire support if need be (there wasn't any need.) Lastly, the force disparity was 3 divisions to 2 at the outset and the British had to spread out throughout Malaya and were defeated in detail.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You might be right regarding the whole Malaya thing, but the japs nonetheless smashed the Philippines and the US troops there

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The US troops there were an understrength division, the rest were Filipino army

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Even a full strength US division all hopped up on goofballs wouldn't have stood a chance at that period. the US simply didn't have the men or resources on hand

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Can't disagree with that, just pointing out that the Japanese soldiers smashing the US troops in the Philippines isn't that impressive since there weren't that many and most were Filipino or National Guard.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I'm not sure about the Philippines, I'm still studying the British side. I gotta tell you, I'm quite surprised, a lot of popular belief about the Japs has been essentially meme tier

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The issue with the Phillipines was that as a archipelago, there were FAR too many beaches on the main islands for the US garrison and its Filipino allies to realistically defend.

          Also add on the fact that MacArthur fricked up extremely badly and let his entire air wing get caught on the ground, and spread his already small forces all over the main islands so they didn't really have enough strength to stop any concentrated Japanese attack.

          That said, the US/Filipino force held on for 5 months, which was the longest any garrison force had been able to hold out against the Japanese in that stage of the war.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            they could easily have held on for a year, or possibly longer, but MacArthur (may he burn eternal) decided that the book he had used to practice with was stupid when it was go time and instead of performing an orderly retreat decided to frick around trying to stop the invasion despite having ten years of wargames that showed without any doubt at all that it literally couldn't be done. then he took a six digit bribe from the president of the phillipenes and skipped town to go put his dick in both us and australian domestic politics for a few years and trying to make sure the war took six months longer and cost two or three million more lives as he advocated for crawling up the coast of china one japanese garrison at a time with his dick as a boat rudder.

  30. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    good thread for once

  31. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They died with honor. They never turned their backs to the enemy. White Piggers will never understand Bushido

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      *surrendered with honor

  32. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >see US strategy of taking islands progressively closer to japan
    >send thousands of troops with irreplaceable equipment to fortify islands
    >expend untold resources turning them into death traps
    >enemy realizes these locations have no air or naval assets
    >ignores them or periodically bombards whatever fixed gun positions are emplaced without ever landing
    >troops stationed there starve because they are completely cut off
    >all of this was for literally nothing and they never get to fire a single shot at enemies before dying of beriberi
    It wouldn't have changed much overall but this illustrates the issues the Japanese had overall. They were acting in a purely reactionary method and had no actual idea why the Allies made the decisions they did. They had no way to pull up a map and figure "their carrier groups can travel about (X) distance before needing to stop off for resupply, this island is roughly that distance and has fresh water so this is going to be an important location" so they just instead fortified every fricking island they could. Not only did this expend a ton of resources for no gain it weakened the actually strategically meaningful locations they absolutely needed to hold.

    Their entire war was full of these fundamentally flawed methods that ensured they could never win even if everything went how they had hoped.

  33. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    One thing I was never told about was the indoctrination program that Japanese boys went through from early childhood, at least the types to end up in the army
    People would talk about how they believe their emperor was a god, how death was better than surrender, how they committed all of these awful atrocities but there were never any explanations as to why they behaved or thought that that way

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      That sounds like bullshit, honestly.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >who is Shamima Begum

        also the Japanese beat their own with sticks in the army

        >what is caning

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >caning
          no I mean properly beating them

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        What sounds like bullshit?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      also the Japanese beat their own with sticks in the army

  34. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >but MacArthur (may he burn eternal)
    what why?

  35. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Probably the confidence they had as a result of their long isolation and later numerous military victories against even shittier opponents (Sino-Japanese war, Russo-Japanese wars,) that coupled with the fact they didn't have to face trench warfare in ww1 and AGAIN steamrolled the Chinese in the 30s led to outdated tactics and remaining as part of Japan's military doctrine.

  36. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The Japanese learned pretty quickly that banzai charges were unlikely to work against Americans, with their wealth of automatic weapons and radio comms to quickly call down accurate artillery and mortar fire. Also why they stopped defending beaches and constructed intricate defense networks inland.

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